Mortgage Broker

[Masked Bandit]

So I'm looking to hear from people who either are mortgage brokers or were and have left the business to do something else.

- How long have you been / were you in the industry?
- How is / was the pay?
- Other pros / cons of the business.



TIA

[JordanLotoski]

Talk to El-nino...he has been a broker for a while and might be able to give you some insight

[el-nino]

ya talk to me! Thanks Jordan.
I love my job. I work my own hours and I make as much money as I want.
Been in the industry for 4 years now
The average broker in Canada does 4 million in business/year This should pay you just under 40k. Now the goal is to be above average and by doing that you can make A LOT of money.
The only con of the business is the competition between banks (not between the other brokers). Other than that its a wild ride and a fun business.
I am always looking to hire people and new associates to work for me and with me. If you are interested and you have taken the course we should talk. If you have yet to take the course I can point you in the right direction in where to go.
Let me know via pm and I can send you a lot of info.
Matt

[D. Dub]

Was in the industry -- mostly on the Commercial/Hard Money side for 10ish years -- but I have experience on the retail side as well.

Here's the negative side :D

-Upwards of 90 percent of the people that get their agent's license bail and quit in the first year.
-Realistically it's hard to get started, especially in a downturning market.
-Expect to suffer a year or more to make "livable" money.
-Compensation is you eat what you kill.
-The industry still has a reputation for being unethical and even shady -- especially in Alberta.
-You have to build and work a large network of contacts to get started -- lots of time and work with no immediate payoff.
-Recent economic developments have really limited the range of products that brokers can offer -- making the bank competition even tougher.
-many brokerages offer minimal support to new agents
-the brokerages that do offer support to learn the biz pretty much bend you over for it
-being your own boss is great -- but so are regular paychecks.

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by D. Dub
Was in the industry -- mostly on the Commercial/Hard Money side for 10ish years -- but I have experience on the retail side as well.

Here's the negative side :D

-Upwards of 90 percent of the people that get their agent's license bail and quit in the first year.
-Realistically it's hard to get started, especially in a downturning market.
-Expect to suffer a year or more to make "livable" money.
-Compensation is you eat what you kill.
-The industry still has a reputation for being unethical and even shady -- especially in Alberta.
-You have to build and work a large network of contacts to get started -- lots of time and work with no immediate payoff.
-Recent economic developments have really limited the range of products that brokers can offer -- making the bank competition even tougher.
-many brokerages offer minimal support to new agents
-the brokerages that do offer support to learn the biz pretty much bend you over for it
-being your own boss is great -- but so are regular paychecks.

If you were in that long I'm assuming you had built a decent book of business. What made you leave? What did you go to?

[el-nino]

Originally posted by D. Dub
Was in the industry -- mostly on the Commercial/Hard Money side for 10ish years -- but I have experience on the retail side as well.

Here's the negative side :D

-Upwards of 90 percent of the people that get their agent's license bail and quit in the first year.
-Realistically it's hard to get started, especially in a downturning market.
-Expect to suffer a year or more to make "livable" money.
-Compensation is you eat what you kill.
-The industry still has a reputation for being unethical and even shady -- especially in Alberta.
-You have to build and work a large network of contacts to get started -- lots of time and work with no immediate payoff.
-Recent economic developments have really limited the range of products that brokers can offer -- making the bank competition even tougher.
-many brokerages offer minimal support to new agents
-the brokerages that do offer support to learn the biz pretty much bend you over for it
-being your own boss is great -- but so are regular paychecks.
Heres my response to this:
-They quit cause they dont work for it. They thought it was easy money.
-I agree its hard to get started in a down market. But Mortgages will be around forever. Brokers make money others ways then just setting up new money. There's refi's, theres financial planning etc
-suffering for a year maybe, 3 months more likely
-You eat what you kill. I agree
-Ethics is a ongoing issue in any business. Its a learning curve and AMBA and RECA are getting better at this
-If your talking about Financial institutions than not really. If you join the right brokerage you can have access to 40 plus lenders asap
-if 4 hours of work that pays you 2000.00 is a lot of time then it must really suck to work 40hours a week and only make 4500/month
-I agree with this point. But you have to roll with the punches and ebb and flow
-Not the brokerage I work for. I am a manager here and our goal is to offer mentorship to new agents.
-Bend you over? Not at all. My goal as a manager is to promote you so you can eventually become a manager
-Being your boss is great as well as regular pay checks. And yes there are pros and cons to this. A pro can be the amount you save in taxes...

My 2 cents on this

[D. Dub]

Originally posted by Masked Bandit


If you were in that long I'm assuming you had built a decent book of business. What made you leave? What did you go to?

Most of my mortgage career was as an executive in commercial mortgage lending -- not in retail. Doing retail/consumer mortgages is kinda like the Mcdonalds of the mortgage business. It's all about volume.

I have gone back to grad school to do become a Psychologist -- something I've always wanted to do.

[D. Dub]

Originally posted by el-nino

Heres my response to this:
-They quit cause they dont work for it. They thought it was easy money.
-I agree its hard to get started in a down market. But Mortgages will be around forever. Brokers make money others ways then just setting up new money. There's refi's, theres financial planning etc
-suffering for a year maybe, 3 months more likely
-You eat what you kill. I agree
-Ethics is a ongoing issue in any business. Its a learning curve and AMBA and RECA are getting better at this
-If your talking about Financial institutions than not really. If you join the right brokerage you can have access to 40 plus lenders asap
-if 4 hours of work that pays you 2000.00 is a lot of time then it must really suck to work 40hours a week and only make 4500/month
-I agree with this point. But you have to roll with the punches and ebb and flow
-Not the brokerage I work for. I am a manager here and our goal is to offer mentorship to new agents.
-Bend you over? Not at all. My goal as a manager is to promote you so you can eventually become a manager
-Being your boss is great as well as regular pay checks. And yes there are pros and cons to this. A pro can be the amount you save in taxes...

My 2 cents on this

Just trying to give the OP a pragmatic look at the industry --

You seem to have rose-colored glasses. :D

[Pacman]

Contact redline on here....he's a mortgage broker doing residential mortgages and drives a F430 and a C63.

[Tik-Tok]

Urm, not to get off topic, but.....

My mortgage term is up in May... how soon should I be looking for a broker?

[el-nino]

now would be a good time. Let me know if I can help you out.

[Jonel]

oopsie wrong section

[cooperS]

instead of opening a new thread, i figure it might be better to re-use this thread.

I am planning to take the mortgage broker program at mount royal or independent study at AMBA.

which one is better?

For those mortgage broker-beyonders:
is it possible to keep a day time job while doing mortgage broker part time (evening/ weekends)?

Thanks for advance!

[canadian_hustla]

4 yr bump... calling on beyond's resident mortgage brokers :)

ok, so all my friends that work as mortgage brokers make between $300k and $600k. i feel left out.

i barely make 6 figures right now but there is zero upside. In addition, i am beginning to hate what i do currently. Am i crazy to even be thinking about quitting my FT bank job and going broker?

thanks in advance

[roopi]

Originally posted by canadian_hustla


ok, so all my friends that work as mortgage brokers make between $300k and $600k. i feel left out.


:eek:

I'm having a hard time believing every broker/friend you have is making this much. if they are you are definetly being left out and ask them to hook you up.

[Canucks3322]

300-600? Wtf crack are you smoking.

[Canucks3322]

If they are Im quitting my job tomorrow.

[Tik-Tok]

Unlikely, lol.

Maybe if they took their best week of the year, and multiplied it by 52, just to brag about how baller they are. (just like the oil patch....)


According to the 2011 Alberta Wage and Salary Survey, Albertans in the Other Financial Officers occupational group earned on average from $25.08 to $42.35 an hour. The mean wage for this group was $35.64 an hour.

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by canadian_hustla
4 yr bump... calling on beyond's resident mortgage brokers :)

ok, so all my friends that work as mortgage brokers make between $300k and $600k. i feel left out.



If you believe that I have some ocean front property in Saskatchewan for sale.

I would actually be interested in hearing from current Mortgage Brokers on the current environment. I suspect the days of mortgage guys making North of $250K are gone. I've heard that there have been changes to the industry that makes it very tough for an independent guy to make much.

[canadian_hustla]

Originally posted by Masked Bandit


If you believe that I have some ocean front property in Saskatchewan for sale.

I would actually be interested in hearing from current Mortgage Brokers on the current environment. I suspect the days of mortgage guys making North of $250K are gone. I've heard that there have been changes to the industry that makes it very tough for an independent guy to make much.

OK, so obviously their incomes are heresay, as I don't have NOA's to prove it or anything however I know of 3 that make far north of $250k. However the question still remains, does it make sense to risk a fairly secure job position to go into a market where you have the ability to risk it all and lose and/or excel?

I wouldn't be an "independent", but would rather aline myself with one of the big 5 and look to produce based on sheer volume. I also have a very large rolodex of existing contacts which I would look to leverage.

Furthermore, I would suspect that the new "Do Not Call" legislation (and monetary penalties to boot) that is expected to be ratified this summer may cause some indigestion for someone that is starting out. Anyways, just looking to hear from those in the industry :)

[sillysod]

My brother in law is a mortgage broker and he definitely is well north of 200k.

That being said he did it for 15 years and I remember his first few years things were pretty lean.

He works his ass off and his phone is always ringing. I know he started with a big bank, moved to another and then about 5 years ago went to an independent firm.

That being said there are lots of starving mortgage brokers out there too. Pretty much same goes for realtor's.

[BananaFob]

Commercial Mortgage Broker here...... more of an analyst but will still broker my own deals here and there. It's a tough gig and it's definitely feast or famine depending on the market... great thing is that given proper licensing, you can be Canada wide. Very, very different from residential mortgage brokerage though.

[Pacman]

I know a guy in Calgary that has made at least 450k/year for the past 5 years. Best year was over 700k.

From what he tells me, he's in the top 40 for brokers across Canada……..so I would suspect it's not overly common to be pulling in that kind of cash in Calgary, unless a significant portion of those 40 brokers are based here.

[roopi]

So how much does a residential broker make per deal?

[Weapon_R]

0.5-1% of the value of the loan usually. Most of the brokers I deal with make nowhere near that much but this is beyond where there is no such thing as average.

[Pacman]

Originally posted by Weapon_R
0.5-1% of the value of the loan usually. Most of the brokers I deal with make nowhere near that much but this is beyond where there is no such thing as average.

That sounds about right, as my buddy did around 80 million in funding. There were also significant bonuses from the banks depending on how much you funded through them.

I wonder about the future of the industry as it seems to be going highly discounted with places like True North and other low margin brokers.

[J-D]

Is there really much of a difference between the different brokers from a consumer perspective? Going to be looking at buying a place in the next year or so and everywhere seems to be pretty similar for rates.

[A790]

Originally posted by J-D
Is there really much of a difference between the different brokers from a consumer perspective? Going to be looking at buying a place in the next year or so and everywhere seems to be pretty similar for rates.
A good broker is more than just rates.

A good broker makes sure that everything is done right, that your needs/interests are protected, and that there are no complications stemming from the mortgage itself.

When I worked with Todd (tpurcell4) for my last mortgage he gave me a call two nights before everything was supposed to be done (note: deal had NOT been funded yet) informing me that another lender just opened up with a lower rate, so we moved. That call has probably saved me at least $5,000 by now...

He was very proactive when dealing with me, as opposed to being reactive.

In the end, service matters just as much as rates. A crappy broker can screw you in a lot of ways...

[tpurcell4]

^^
:) you make me blush.

As a broker, the average broker in Canada makes $30,000 to $60,000 per year. On our team we have seasoned brokers who make a comfortable living between $60,000 to $80,000 and they enjoy their time and are semi-retired. We also have some associates who are incredibly smart but have barely closed more than 1 or 2 deals per year.

If you want to make a lot of money, the industry has that to offer, and the #1 brokers in Calgary and Edmonton do make in excess of $1M per year (then subtract office and admin fees from that to run a business that size, you are looking around a Net before tax around $750K+), with the Top 20% starting around the $150K+ range.

To look at the commercial side, carving out that niche you are looking at fewer deals that take longer to close, but pay more per deal as most commercial mortgages are in the $1M + range.

There are 3 types of Good brokers in our industry:
1) Great Sales People - They can talk to anyone, bring in tonnes of new business and are great at building relationships quickly. They also have a tendency to hate paperwork and not as up to date on the products available.

2) Great Underwriters - They know the industry better than anyone. They know how to look at a file and place it at the appropriate lender immediately, and can structure the tougher files to get them done with little hassle. These brokers tend to be afraid of sales and do not consider themselves sales people.

3) Combo - They are comfortable with people and sales, and are always up to date on lender products. They know how to find business, provide great customer service and structure a deal in a timely manner. These Brokers tend to be the most experienced and started off as either great sales people or great underwriters and over time learned to be good at the other.

If you are a 1 or a 2, find your opposite and split commissions and you will do much better than trying to do both at first, as if you are a sales type you will have no shortage of deals and will fill your time focused there and end up losing files as you don't want to do the paperwork until you absolutely have to. Paired with a Great Underwriter, your deals won't slip through the cracks, each of you can focus on the area you love and grow a good business.

Warning on the above recommendation. What tends to happen is the sales person looks at the underwriter as unneeded and taking a huge portion of their income because they do not bring in any business. The underwriter may also at the same time get frustrated with the sales type for making promises they shouldn't and feel they are doing all the work while the other has all of the fun. So, if you decide to take this route, make sure you understand each others roles and have a solid agreement in place that is fair to both sides, and the compensation is outlined in writing. (We have seen this back fire on other associates before).

If you have any questions please feel free to ask.

Sincerely,

Todd Purcell

Cheers,

Todd