The 'old school' Honda Formula 1 Turbo Engine ...technical paper...

[Toma]

I love reading this shit... 1.5 litres, 12,000 rpm, 60 psi boost, 1000 hp

http://www.zzw30.com/HondaRA168EEngine.pdf

[sr20s14zenki]

Mmmmmm.....very nice (=

This is like porn to gearheads like you and I

[diamondedge]

This is porn to engineers as well..

[Redlyne_mr2]

Pretty awesome stuff.

[shin0bi]

If they can squeeze 1000 horsies out of a 1.5 l engine, why can't we buy a 250 hp production Honda that uses 1.5 L engine and sips the gas?

Reliability? Cost?

[rage2]

Originally posted by shin0bi
If they can squeeze 1000 horsies out of a 1.5 l engine, why can't we buy a 250 hp production Honda that uses 1.5 L engine and sips the gas?

Reliability? Cost?
Because they don't sell rocket fuel at the pump, and engines have to last longer than a few thousand km's.

Very cool article. I didn't know about the effects of fuel temps vs vaporization. I guess the cars I've tuned never had the capability of controlling temp of fuel at injection point. Really fucking cool how they control inlet temps too to hit a set point.

The other stuff is pretty standard tuning stuff... MBT timing or retarded to knock limit. I'm shocked that they're running 35 degrees of timing at full power. Gotta love toulene!

[Toma]

Originally posted by rage2

Because they don't sell rocket fuel at the pump, and engines have to last longer than a few thousand km's.

Very cool article. I didn't know about the effects of fuel temps vs vaporization. I guess the cars I've tuned never had the capability of controlling temp of fuel at injection point. Really fucking cool how they control inlet temps too to hit a set point.

The other stuff is pretty standard tuning stuff... MBT timing or retarded to knock limit. I'm shocked that they're running 35 degrees of timing at full power. Gotta love toulene!

The shear volume they are trying to inject would surely hurt atomization, and probably why heating the fuel improved mileage.

On the other hand, its kind of like water injection. The cooling effect is mostly from the actual phase change, not the temperature of the water....

I would love one of their pressure transducers... they said it was a washer that sat under the spark plug?? Cool! I have seen ones that replace the entire spark plug, but how practical is that?

If prices have come down, might have to be my next investment after the EGT's.

[texasnick]

I love this article. It really shows how into F1 Honda used to be:(

[chkolny541]

Originally posted by rage2

Because they don't sell rocket fuel at the pump, and engines have to last longer than a few thousand km's.


lol:rofl: , 60 psi is unreal

[shin0bi]

Originally posted by rage2

Because they don't sell rocket fuel at the pump, and engines have to last longer than a few thousand km's.

Ahh, this makes sense.

[Toma]

Originally posted by chkolny541

lol:rofl: , 60 psi is unreal

But still 35 psi, and what? 600 hp?

That's probably very close to doable. My old SRT-4 with Mopar Stage 3 would pull 28 psi on pump gas, and that is a factory tune.

I think today, there would be zero issue of delivering a reliable 300 hp 1.5 litre.

[R154]

//wasted posted here.

[r3ccOs]

Originally posted by Toma


But still 35 psi, and what? 600 hp?

That's probably very close to doable. My old SRT-4 with Mopar Stage 3 would pull 28 psi on pump gas, and that is a factory tune.

I think today, there would be zero issue of delivering a reliable 300 hp 1.5 litre.

Unless you have variable veins, expect the most amount of turbo lag to spin up those impellers.

I had a buddy who had a B16A in his US 91' civic si who thought it would be a great idea to slap in a Garret T4

That turbo was essentially useless as the gears just couldn't keep the engine rev'd up enough to keep the boost, it was brutal.

You have variable timed 2.0L engines producing 300bhp, and even "special" models producing up to 420, I think that's pretty sufficient.

[R154]

Originally posted by r3ccOs


Unless you have variable veins, expect the most amount of turbo lag to spin up those impellers.

I had a buddy who had a B16A in his US 91' civic si who thought it would be a great idea to slap in a Garret T4

That turbo was essentially useless as the gears just couldn't keep the engine rev'd up enough to keep the boost, it was brutal.

You have variable timed 2.0L engines producing 300bhp, and even "special" models producing up to 420, I think that's pretty sufficient.

Your buddy didnt size his turbo correctly.

[962 kid]

Originally posted by r3ccOs


Unless you have variable veins, expect the most amount of turbo lag to spin up those impellers.

I had a buddy who had a B16A in his US 91' civic si who thought it would be a great idea to slap in a Garret T4

That turbo was essentially useless as the gears just couldn't keep the engine rev'd up enough to keep the boost, it was brutal.

You have variable timed 2.0L engines producing 300bhp, and even "special" models producing up to 420, I think that's pretty sufficient.

Proper tuning and turbo sizing goes a long way towards making a streetable car with decent power. You don't need a T4 (doesn't really mean anything, that's like saying "stage 5") to make 300hp. Your buddy sounds like one of those guys who slaps a GT35R on their car, runs 16psi and then wonders why their car only makes 300hp.


Originally posted by R154


Your buddy didnt size his turbo correctly.

beat me to it :facepalm:

[redline]

Originally posted by rage2

, and engines have to last longer than a few thousand km's.



those engines would only last a race.... differnet engine for practice, quali and the race...

and the quali engine would only last a hour of running...

[R154]

winner.

[rage2]

Originally posted by redline
those engines would only last a race.... differnet engine for practice, quali and the race...

and the quali engine would only last a hour of running...
The quali engines when there were no restrictions would literally last only about 20km's at peak power. But that's 1500hp at peak. Crazy shit.

[redline]

^^^ they ran quali engines right up to the time of one engine per race

[Eleanor]

Originally posted by diamondedge
This is porn to engineers as well.. :werd: :drool:

[Mr_ET]

crazy stuff, I'd like to see these types of engines again!

Under 7k though looks like it made about 60whp :P

[sillysod]

Originally posted by Mr_ET

Under 7k though looks like it made about 60whp :P

like a 2 stroke dirtbike.... haha


They have to build cars for retarded people now. 95% of people that buy turbo cars (TDI, 2.0T etc) never let them cool down after a highway drive. So the car companies have to build (and detune) them so that they aren't doing tons of warranty work.

It's really too bad, but since most people "just get in and drive it" it would be difficult for the manufactures to get away with something like this.