The Ridiculousness of Rockyview General Hospital

[GT.....O?]

First i would like to say that if you ever plan on going to emergency i reccommend you read this. Because I'm pretty sure it will save you time and pain.

So about a week ago i was lying in bed with my girlfriend studying for a midterm the next day. It was going great, she was sleeping and i was starting to think that an A for a grade was achievable.

I should mention that my girlfriend was diagnosed with Lupus about a year ago.

At about 11:30 Pm, my girlfriend was awaken by sudden pain in her chest. (Being only 20 years old I highly doubted she was having a heart attack, and thought it was probably a pinched nerve, which I get quite regularly). Suddenly she said she felt like her heart just skipped a beat. I laid my ear to her chest and listened to her heart, sure enough she was having a irregular heart beat. It would be normal for a little while, then slow down and right as I though it couldn't get any slower it did a triple beat in less then half a second. Then speed back up to normal for five minutes, then repeat.

We proceeded to Rocky, were we told the triage nurse about our night. In the midst of telling the nurse she took her pulse and my girlfriend told her how she was having trouble breathing whenever this triple beat happened and she felt like there was pressure in her chest. The nurse responded with
" well your breathing fine now so it must not be that bad"

I resisted my urge to go in there and say something.
Then my lady continued to tell her that I had listened to her chest and heard the strange triple beat. What the nurse said next pissed me right off, saying " well does your boyfriend have a stethoscope, or is he trained in the medical field?"


Yeah, thanks you cunt, I have only been living for some twenty odd years and yet you expect that I wouldn't know what an irregular heart beat is? WTF is wrong with you.

So after the whole conversation she told us to sit down. I though OK, if it happens again we can come up and tell her, thinking it would only be a matter of time before we got to see a doctor after that.

I really don't know what I was expecting after coming there about 6 months last time, with abdominal pain and blood in her urine. After about a 6 hour wait, the doctor said it was probably craps and told us to go home. While 2-3 days after she has a complete kidney failure and was rushed to emergency.

Back to the story.

While i recognize that we do have an overcrowded health care system, you would think that a 20 year old woman with chest pain would be taken pretty seriously, or at least more seriously then a person with a broken arm.

While we were sitting, the triple beat happened again, so we walked back up to the triage nurse and continued to tell her about it. She proceeded to take the pulse for about 30 seconds, and while doing so my girlfriend explained to her that if we went back and sat down it would be too late for the nurse to witness the triple beat and we would still be back at the beginning. She continued to tell her to sit down.

We waited for about two hours ( of which time no one else was admitted) and decided that we were going to go home because no one else was being taken in, and after the two hours we were still at the back of the line. She was feeling a little bit better although the irregular heartbeat continued and i had a midterm the next morning, and was planning to stay up all night studying, and maybe get an hour of sleep or two, so i could watch over her and make sure nothing happened in her sleep. While trying to leave the nurse continued to bitch saying " you have a very serious condition, and we are trying our best go get you examined, but if you want to go home you are either making a mistake or it must not be a serious problem anyways"

How about this you dumb triage nurse, if you realize she has a serious condition how about you start taking her serious and bump her up in front of the people with broken arms and a cough, instead of leaving us behind the 17 bloody people in front of us.

Next day the heart beat continued, and it was suggested that we go to the new clinic on 12 ave and 4 th street. I think its called Sheldon Shimir clinic or something, and i would like to say props to everyone there.

after only a two hour wait we were admitted and received a ECG heart monitor, constant watch by a nurse, Xray, and blood and urine work done within the next 4 hours. All the while being taken completely serious everyone there

I again would like to thank everyone at the clinic for being professional and actually giving two shits to figure out what was wrong.

The pain ended up being inflammation in her chest lining which was causing a PVC. While i cant remember what exactly that stands for its something to do with a once in a while heart beat.

I would like to end by saying if you have something wrong and need to go the emergency go to the clinic on 12 th ave and 4th street. I will almost guarantee you will get in faster and they will actually find out what the problem is instead of trying to feed people though. [/rant]

[Kona9]

Next time (other than Sheldon Chumuir sp?) Take the extra drive to Okotoks or Canmore. Sure you drive further, but you are in and out and home faster than waiting locally. The care is generally a bit more sincere as well. (from friends accounts)

Good luck to your girl in a healthy recovery.

[sputnik]

Sounds like standard triage procedures to me.

What did you expect them to do? You have no idea how many people are working that night, or who was admitted before you. You also have no idea how many ER doctors and nurses might be dealing with other patients rushed in via ambulance.

Your girlfriend may have had chest pains, irregular heartbeat and shortness of breath but the fact that she was able to make it into the hospital on her own strength says a lot about her state. If you feel that something like that is an emergency then be prepared to wait.

My wife and I went into Rockyview about a year ago and she was rushed in immediately because her condition was serious enough.

I have nothing but good things to say about the staff at Rockyview.

[GT.....O?]

Thanks Kona9

Still, all in all i am disgusted with Rockyview.

Anyone think I should get the triage nurse's name and send in a complaint. Not about the wait times, or about the over crowded health care system, but about her attitude.

Please don't flame, I understand they have to be stern because of the people that do come in that claim to be dying, and they have a cough or the flu. But I believe this nurse's attitude and rudeness was above disrespectful and unnecessary.

What do you guys think?

[GT.....O?]

Originally posted by sputnik
Sounds like standard triage procedures to me.

What did you expect them to do? You have no idea how many people are working that night, or who was admitted before you. You also have no idea how many ER doctors and nurses might be dealing with other patients rushed in via ambulance.

Your girlfriend may have had chest pains, irregular heartbeat and shortness of breath but the fact that she was able to make it into the hospital on her own strength says a lot about her state. If you feel that something like that is an emergency then be prepared to wait.

My wife and I went into Rockyview about a year ago and she was rushed in immediately because her condition was serious enough.

I have nothing but good things to say about the staff at Rockyview.

I am not complaining with the wait, nor the overcrowded health care system, I am complaining the nurse's attitude.

I myself was there two months ago and required stitches. While i though it was a little ridiculous i had to wait seven hours, I didn't have a problem waiting because i realized it wasn't that serious to get some thread stuck in my arm to hold my skin together.

I just would have expected them to take things a little more serious. And from the attention we received at Sheldon Shimir (sp?) i just wanted to say props to them and i will never return to RGH.
Just though i would let other people know as well

Did you read the part about her kidney failure?
Pissing blood and sever abdominal pain should be taken seriously, no?

[em2ab]

Ya, sounds pretty standard. Do you know how many sissies complain about a pain in their arm and think the world's going to end? They sneeze and think they need to be admitted for a week. To be honest, if it was as serious as you say I probably would have ordered an ambulance.

A wait for someone who walks in on their own with an irregular heart rate is normally as long as you say. I broke my leg in 2 places and waited 6 hours for an x-ray. Then they confirmed it wasn't broken, sent me home and the next morning a specialist called and said, "Bring him back now, it's broken in 2 places." Another time I waited an hour or two before the doctor telling me I was on the edge of dying of kidney failure with extreme food poisoning from ecoli 0157, No ambulance = no care.

[GT.....O?]

I agree, no ambulance = no attention, and sissies.
but due to financial reasons, an ambulance was not an option because they currently do not have any healthcare because they were hit by the recession pretty hard.

I crushed my spleen a couple years ago, had massive internal bleeding, sever breathing problems because the sack around my spleen was filling up with blood and pushing on my diaphram and lungs, and terrible pain in my right shoulder which apparently was due to the spleen issue,(doctor even said the pain in my shoulder is comparable to the pain i would have experienced if i was having a heart attack) but still sat around in the hospital for 3 hours before i was seen by a doctor.

the only reason i didn't die was because that sack around the spleen temporary stopped the bleeding because it was too full. other wise i would have bled out.

maybe im just aggrevated, and fed up with our health care system.

but im pretty sure if one of your loved one was in the same situation, having an irregular heartbeat, and pressure in the chest, all of you would have expected more, and more respect then from a nurse who seemed to have a stick up her ass.

but w.e.......... its over now, and i wont be returning to RGH... [/rant]

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by GT.....O?


I am not complaining with the wait, nor the overcrowded health care system, I am complaining the nurse's attitude.


With 17 people in the ER, all of whom think their condition is the most serious, all trying to make it sound worse than it is to get seen sooner, and you're complaining about their attitude? People have bad days, and nurses put up with more crap than pretty much anybody in a hospital (and I mean that both literally and figuratively).

[reno97637]

All hospitals are like that. The best thing to do is go to those 24 hour clinics. If they find something wrong, they'll call an ambulance, get you transported, and you will receive immediate care.

Also, does anyone know what happened to the clinic on 8th Ave. and 8th St. SW? Did they relocate? Anyway, that was the best clinic to go. I always recommended that place.

[TheCheff]

^^It relocated to the place the OP is talking about Sheldon Chumir on 12thave & 4th st

[wts]

I also have a horror story about the rockyview. A friend of mine went into emerge ( about 10 months ago) because he was having trouble with blurring in one eye as well as a few other signs. The attending doc told him to go home and to see an eye doc the next day. Well he didn't make it to the eye doc because he a f--king massive stroke.

He had all the syptoms and the doc told him to go home. Well he's at home now, everyday, because there's basically nothing else he can do.

Thanks to the Rockyview emerge unit!!!!!!

[Aleks]

Originally posted by wts
I also have a horror story about the rockyview. A friend of mine went into emerge ( about 10 months ago) because he was having trouble with blurring in one eye as well as a few other signs. The attending doc told him to go home and to see an eye doc the next day. Well he didn't make it to the eye doc because he a f--king massive stroke.

He had all the syptoms and the doc told him to go home. Well he's at home now, everyday, because there's basically nothing else he can do.

Thanks to the Rockyview emerge unit!!!!!!

Stories like this are pretty scary!

Our health care system is pretty hit and miss. I think the doctors basically guess most of the time and have no idea what is going on unless it's really obvious.

[em2ab]

Originally posted by Aleks


Stories like this are pretty scary!

Our health care system is pretty hit and miss. I think the doctors basically guess most of the time and have no idea what is going on unless it's really obvious. They have to guess because people can't convey the message properly, shit most people on this forum can't even spell properly. I sometimes do desktop support and people have the most ridiculous ways of explaining computer issues to me and I often end up treating it as a completely different issue just because it was explained incorrectly. It's not always someone else's fault.

[dandia89]

I don't understand why we have such a shortage of doctors. I see so many kids who have 4.0 gpas who are struggling getting into medical school

[TDFTW]

I hate that hospital too. When I crashed my motorcycle, I had to wait 9 hours to even fill out paperwork, meanwhile I had a broken arm, a knee cap that twisted to the left side of my knee, skin peeled off my legs from sliding and not even a pill of tylenol.

Then they checked me out and sent me home told me to buy tylenol, didn't even xray my arm. After that I hopped a cab to peter lougheed and got admitted in 15 minutes and xrayed and splinted and the rashed skin was treated and bandaged.

That hospital is a joke. The citizens of our city are a joke, who the fuck goes to an ER cause you have a cold?

Adrenaline is a wonderful thing though, cause after I crashed, (i lowsided on gravel) i was able to ride my bike to the hospital and get treated. About 1km before I arrived is when the pain set in and i could barely see where I was going.

[Ca_Silvia13]

Haha good stories, i was there with my bro when he broke his collar bone for the 3rd time. We have already been there for 7 hours then we called for pizza, after the pizza guy delivered, we got right in. Funny how that works...

[cashflow]

About time when they stop using education as a money making scheme and putting doctors through 15 years of education. We need a lot of them and need them to graduate faster. At least 4-6 years faster. I've seen doctors and their kids leave for school together. What a sad sight. And people in pain listening to dumb nurses who were left alone by their husbands/wives/kids.

[berbatov]

Originally posted by em2ab
To be honest, if it was as serious as you say I probably would have ordered an ambulance.
If one gets there by ambulance does not mean they will get ahead.


Originally posted by cashflow
We need a lot of them and need them to graduate faster.
No thank you. I want my doctors to be rigorously prepared.

[cancer man]

At an Emerg Site there should be a user fee for all the bullshit
hypochondriacs out there.

When i was sitting in emergency when my wifes water broke there was a guy sitting down screaming like Freddy was chopping him up and it turned out to be he hit his finger with a hammer and
cracked his finger nail.

Hope your Gal is Doing Fine.

[forkdork]

Originally posted by cashflow
About time when they stop using education as a money making scheme and putting doctors through 15 years of education. We need a lot of them and need them to graduate faster. At least 4-6 years faster. I've seen doctors and their kids leave for school together. What a sad sight. And people in pain listening to dumb nurses who were left alone by their husbands/wives/kids.

LOLZ

Because having physicians who are clearly under-prepped and lack clinical skills treating patients would be ideal.

I mean 1 year of Medical School is all you really need anyways right? The following 3 are just redundant anyways.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by cashflow
About time when they stop using education as a money making scheme and putting doctors through 15 years of education. We need a lot of them and need them to graduate faster. At least 4-6 years faster. I've seen doctors and their kids leave for school together. What a sad sight. And people in pain listening to dumb nurses who were left alone by their husbands/wives/kids.

15 years? Med School is effectively 4 years, everything else is just trying to get in. You don't actually need a Bachelor's Degree to get into Medicine (nevermind a Masters or PhD, or in your example, a couple), its just how competetive it is, why anybody would want to get rid of that is beyond me.

Why don't we let people do Med School online as well?

[cashflow]

k everybody I didn't know nobody was aware that doctors in other parts of the world graduate 5-6 years faster and they're far more efficient and are not only well prepared for the job but also morally unlike here. The bachelor's is a waste of time. They need to make High school a little more intense. Seriously ... it's such a joke. And then have MCAT test preparation right after high school. I think people should agree that bachelors is not necessary for Medicine.

Guys you're right when you say you need doctors need to be rigorously prepared. But you know in Asia and stuff doctors put in same amount of time working on their specialization. Here students are just made to do useless stuff, just to get maximum fee off of them. For those who really believe that doctors should be rigorously prepared, I think a new course abt Truth, morals and value of life over money should be introduced. That'd prepare them much better.

[cashflow]

Originally posted by kertejud2


15 years? Med School is effectively 4 years, everything else is just trying to get in. You don't actually need a Bachelor's Degree to get into Medicine (nevermind a Masters or PhD, or in your example, a couple), its just how competetive it is, why anybody would want to get rid of that is beyond me.

Why don't we let people do Med School online as well?


I meant the total amount it takes to finish the med. school. Sry .. my bad. If Med. school goes online, so would the treatments.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by cashflow



I meant the total amount it takes to finish the med. school. Sry .. my bad. If Med. school goes online, so would the treatments.

I'm still not sure what you're talking about. you can finish Med School in 4 years in Canada if you're one of the prodigies. The system doesn't require a Bachelor's degree, but when you get thousands of people competing for limited spots, eventually you're going to have people with a year of post-secondary education going up against the guy who got a BSc with a 4.0 or the guy with a Masters or a PhD because he just didn't make the cut all the previous times.

I don't think you quite understand how the system works.

[forkdork]

Originally posted by cashflow
k everybody I didn't know nobody was aware that doctors in other parts of the world graduate 5-6 years faster and they're far more efficient and are not only well prepared for the job but also morally unlike here. The bachelor's is a waste of time. They need to make High school a little more intense. Seriously ... it's such a joke. And then have MCAT test preparation right after high school. I think people should agree that bachelors is not necessary for Medicine.

Guys you're right when you say you need doctors need to be rigorously prepared. But you know in Asia and stuff doctors put in same amount of time working on their specialization. Here students are just made to do useless stuff, just to get maximum fee off of them. For those who really believe that doctors should be rigorously prepared, I think a new course abt Truth, morals and value of life over money should be introduced. That'd prepare them much better.

^^ Dumbass.

Not going to bother.

[01RedDX]

.

[rx7girlie]

You have to know that having chest pain and an 'irregular' beat does not mean you're about to decompensate. I work in an emergency and have to tell you, "Chest pain" is probably the most frequent chief complaint we see. We also get people who know the "classic signs" of heart attacks that think they can just go up to triage, parrot this off, and get seen sooner than other people in line. What's funny is when we see them in the department after triage, their stories completely change - "oh uh... it hurts to pee" and you're thinking "WTF?!"

I completely 100% agree with you about the triage persons attitude, and you should definatley voice your concerns about people who are rude at their job, because I also work under the same shitty conditions (short staffed, hallway patients, really sick people etc) and always treat those people who probably could have waited to go to their family doc, with respect!

You have to know though that triage is NOT only about taking a persons Vital Signs and then writing down their story. It takes 3+ years of emergency experience and competence to move up to being able to triage people. We do quick assessments of people, and trust me, it is triage and only triage that dictates who gets classified a level 1,2,3,4 or 5.

It would have been nice, in your case, to quickly have done an ECG along with triage (which most of the times) we get to do. The ECG is pretty important in determining if those palpitation feelings are benign (which a PVC is) or not. Also, a PVC will not case "3 rapid beats in less than a sec". And since you can't remember what a PVC is, it is a premature ventricular contraction, again, something that is NOT EMERGENT and will not cause cardiovascular decompromise, most likely in a 20 year old, as seen with stable BP, HR, 02 readings etc... Sure, I bet it feels like crap, but trust me, it could also WAIT, because death is not imminent (aka - EMERGENCY).

Finally one last thing. DO NOT think that calling an ambulance will get you in faster. This is the silly rationale that wastes the ambulance resources, and bring us lacerated fingers, back pains etc etc etc. sorry but a lacerated finger does NOT need an ambulance, let alone an emergency department, along with the other crap that gets brought in with an ambulance, cause "look at me! I'm in an ambulance!!"

Finally, ALL emergencies will make mistakes. Like all people, in all lines of work. Yes a stroke or MI was missed, or yes unfortunately someone miscarried in the waiting room instead of in privacy, but can you please begin to appreciate the number of lives that are saved, made more comfortable, or treated with respect and dignitiy?

Last thing, I've read my post and it is not meant to be a rant, because it may read like that :P But just like your little story, I can write my own about RUDE patients who have this sense of entitlement.... Wanna hear some?? Hmm... maybe I can tell you about the time we are TRYING tp resuscitate a little guy (5yrs old) for like 2 hours, at night, when we only have one doctor on shift, and I get the lady in the ophthalmology room YELL at me because her daughter with a red itchy eye had not been seen in 4 hrs....... Thanks.

[rx7girlie]

One more thing. In my department, we are usually full with admitted patients waiting for a room in the wards (having 75% of your beds full of admitted med/surg pts makes it hard to function like a true emerg - which again, people dont appreciate, and lay blame only on our department). All our monitored beds are full, but when we get a REALLY unwell patient, as seen by triage/charge nurse.... the charge nurse makes the rounds to the 2 rooms of 6 monitored beds and asks us the dreaded question "Who can come out"

What this means is 2 things.

1. Your family member or you, who is using the monitored bed, and no longer needs it, is unfortunately moved into the hallway to wait for results or discharge.

2. It also means we are working on MAKING room for someone who MUST get seen, or atleast MUST get put on a monitored bed and be monitored more closely, and have treatment initiated more quickly.

[Shogged]

i like all the health care experts in this thread. truly informative opinions guys! Quick, who wants to bet that half this thread can't even properly define triage?


:facepalm:

[01RedDX]

.

[D. Dub]

Originally posted by 01RedDX
- our system lags behind even some 3rd world countries, which is truly sad.

Where the hell do you get such misinformation from -- that is just utterly ludicrous.

[01RedDX]

.

[D. Dub]

Canada's system is still rated higher. That being said Colombia is ranked higher and is arguably third world.

The World Health Organization's ranking
of the world's health systems.
Source: WHO World Health Report - (2000)

Rank Country

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America
38 Slovenia
39 Cuba
40 Brunei
41 New Zealand
42 Bahrain
43 Croatia
44 Qatar
45 Kuwait
46 Barbados
47 Thailand
48 Czech Republic
49 Malaysia
50 Poland
51 Dominican Republic
52 Tunisia
53 Jamaica
54 Venezuela
55 Albania
56 Seychelles
57 Paraguay
58 South Korea
59 Senegal
60 Philippines
61 Mexico
62 Slovakia
63 Egypt
64 Kazakhstan
65 Uruguay
66 Hungary
67 Trinidad and Tobago
68 Saint Lucia
69 Belize
70 Turkey
71 Nicaragua
72 Belarus
73 Lithuania
74 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
75 Argentina
76 Sri Lanka
77 Estonia
78 Guatemala
79 Ukraine
80 Solomon Islands
81 Algeria
82 Palau
83 Jordan
84 Mauritius
85 Grenada
86 Antigua and Barbuda
87 Libya
88 Bangladesh
89 Macedonia
90 Bosnia-Herzegovina
91 Lebanon
92 Indonesia
93 Iran
94 Bahamas
95 Panama
96 Fiji
97 Benin
98 Nauru
99 Romania
100 Saint Kitts and Nevis
101 Moldova
102 Bulgaria
103 Iraq
104 Armenia
105 Latvia
106 Yugoslavia
107 Cook Islands
108 Syria
109 Azerbaijan
110 Suriname
111 Ecuador
112 India
113 Cape Verde
114 Georgia
115 El Salvador
116 Tonga
117 Uzbekistan
118 Comoros
119 Samoa
120 Yemen
121 Niue
122 Pakistan
123 Micronesia
124 Bhutan
125 Brazil
126 Bolivia
127 Vanuatu
128 Guyana
129 Peru
130 Russia
131 Honduras
132 Burkina Faso
133 Sao Tome and Principe
134 Sudan
135 Ghana
136 Tuvalu
137 Ivory Coast
138 Haiti
139 Gabon
140 Kenya
141 Marshall Islands
142 Kiribati
143 Burundi
144 China
145 Mongolia
146 Gambia
147 Maldives
148 Papua New Guinea
149 Uganda
150 Nepal
151 Kyrgystan
152 Togo
153 Turkmenistan
154 Tajikistan
155 Zimbabwe
156 Tanzania
157 Djibouti
158 Eritrea
159 Madagascar
160 Vietnam
161 Guinea
162 Mauritania
163 Mali
164 Cameroon
165 Laos
166 Congo
167 North Korea
168 Namibia
169 Botswana
170 Niger
171 Equatorial Guinea
172 Rwanda
173 Afghanistan
174 Cambodia
175 South Africa
176 Guinea-Bissau
177 Swaziland
178 Chad
179 Somalia
180 Ethiopia
181 Angola
182 Zambia
183 Lesotho
184 Mozambique
185 Malawi
186 Liberia
187 Nigeria
188 Democratic Republic of the Congo
189 Central African Republic
190 Myanmar

[dezmarez]

i dont see why you would complain about the nurses attitude..
they aren't trained in "customer service"...and its not like you can take your business else where...
its save the person who is in the worse situation...(i think)

[01RedDX]

.

[cashflow]

Originally posted by forkdork


^^ Dumbass.

Not going to bother.

Please don't. Just go get drunk dude ... or what was that .... umm yeh "get smashed." That's all what people like you are good at.

[cashflow]

Originally posted by kertejud2


I'm still not sure what you're talking about. you can finish Med School in 4 years in Canada if you're one of the prodigies. The system doesn't require a Bachelor's degree, but when you get thousands of people competing for limited spots, eventually you're going to have people with a year of post-secondary education going up against the guy who got a BSc with a 4.0 or the guy with a Masters or a PhD because he just didn't make the cut all the previous times.

I don't think you quite understand how the system works.

k don't you have to finish some pre-reqs. to get into medicine. Maybe you don't have to finish the Bachelors but 95% students still have to finish 3 years and many take more than 4 years to get into medicine. One you get into Med. school it's 4 years. Then your residency(sp.?) clinical rotations etc etc etc. I youngest doctor I've met is 30. But most finish education when they're 32 or higher. Anyhow ....

[forkdork]

Originally posted by cashflow


Please don't. Just go get drunk dude ... or what was that .... umm yeh "get smashed." That's all what people like you are good at.

One of us is in med school.

Heres a hint: Its not you!

:rofl: :rofl:

[cashflow]

Originally posted by forkdork


One of us is in med school.

Heres a hint: Its not you!

:rofl: :rofl:

Sure, you can say that I'm lucky ...lol. But if you don't play along with the stupid system and put even .005% of the thought your brain is capable of, you'd realize that it makes no sense for doctors to be memorizing books and paying fee until they're 32.
Memorizing books doesn't make anybody smart, anybody can do that. It's just that many don't. I am amazed to see how people keep accepting flaws in the society and to make it worse they defend them.
University of Calgary keeps raising the fee, but nobody stands against it. People join facebook groups like the President is going to see it and reverse his decision. Recently city started charging for parking on stations, some people defended it saying it's atleast cheaper than downtown. Something is terribly wrong with the society dude. Why don't you guys realize???

[5000Audi]

Originally posted by TDFTW

That hospital is a joke. The citizens of our city are a joke, who the fuck goes to an ER cause you have a cold?


if you were to notice.. many of the people at the ER with a cough seem to be punjabi,muslem,iracis,( brown people) seems to be them that come since they love the full coverage health care and take every single advantage of it.. unlike myself personally, ive broke both ankels at once ( jumped out the box of a truck) and i didnt go to the doctor till i was forced..i kept saying to my family the hospital is for emergancies i will go to the medi clinic on monday seeing it was saturday...

but i get pretty pissed when i see people take up and waste a doctors time for them to find out what any person should know...a common cold...get bucklies or Dr mom... or whatever.. there is even medi clinics for that shit... but why go tie up the emerg for that...



**Sorry if this offends anyone.. theres no pun intended and is my personal opinion.. if a mod or someone has a issue please tell me and i will delete it**

[forkdork]

Originally posted by cashflow


Sure, you can say that I'm lucky ...lol. But if you don't play along with the stupid system and put even .005% of the thought your brain is capable of, you'd realize that it makes no sense for doctors to be memorizing books and paying fee until they're 32.
Memorizing books doesn't make anybody smart, anybody can do that. It's just that many don't. I am amazed to see how people keep accepting flaws in the society and to make it worse they defend them.
University of Calgary keeps raising the fee, but nobody stands against it. People join facebook groups like the President is going to see it and reverse his decision. Recently city started charging for parking on stations, some people defended it saying it's atleast cheaper than downtown. Something is terribly wrong with the society dude. Why don't you guys realize???

Because school consists of memorizing books. Yep! Seriously, just stop posting.

BTW: MD at 24 here. But I thought you said the youngest Dr. you ever met was 30? lolz:poosie:

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by cashflow


k don't you have to finish some pre-reqs. to get into medicine. Maybe you don't have to finish the Bachelors but 95% students still have to finish 3 years and many take more than 4 years to get into medicine. One you get into Med. school it's 4 years. Then your residency(sp.?) clinical rotations etc etc etc. I youngest doctor I've met is 30. But most finish education when they're 32 or higher. Anyhow ....

The reason that 95% of students need to get a Bachelor's or more is because only 2500 people get accepted to Med School every year out of 10,000+ applicants.

So yes, it can take more than 4 years to go into medicine, it can also take 2 years to get into medicine. I know people who needed one year of schooling (got bumped to 2nd year because of AP classes) and were doctors at 22. When you are in your residency, you are a doctor. When you do clinical rotations, you are a doctor. "Finishing" education is a misleading because no doctor is really ever finished learning, technology changes so fast.

Between Canada and the Royal College countries (UK, Ireland, South Africa, Australia, Singapore, Hong Kong etc.) you'd be looking at these differences (on average):

Canada:
2-4 years university, 4 years Med school, +up to 6 years specializing

RCPS
6 years Medicine program, up to 6 years specializing.

Now of course this is what is required of course. In Canada most people take 4 years, but in the RCPS you also can have applicants with undergraduate degrees (they often get to skip the first year or maybe two dependig on their degree).

The reason you don't see many doctors (or at least people calling themselves doctors) is because they aren't finished specializing.


Now the point is that your claims of a 6 year difference are bullshit and you don't know what you're talking about. In Canada, you're looking at 10-14 years to become a specialized doctor (say a neurosurgeon), in the rest of the world, you're looking at a minimum of 12 years to become a specialized doctor (say a neurosurgeon).


And while we're on the subject, the RCSP has long been thinking of making an undergraduate degree a requirement and cutting down the Medicine program to 4 years. Simply because they get so many applicants with BScs anyway, its a good additional vetting process.

You claimed med school was just a lot of memorizing, a lot of it is. But there are many required courses that are simply to weed out those who got that far just because they can memorize (O-Chem is one of the favorites for this). And doctors are always learning as I mentioned. My father went to medical school over 30 years ago, in a different country. Would you really want him to just use the knowledge he was taught in the 70s? He's over 50 years old and hasn't stopped educating himself on medicine since he was 18.


But keep talking out of your ass.

[urban.one]

http://mortystv.com/showcards/doogie_howser_showcard.jpg

[cashflow]

Originally posted by forkdork


Because school consists of memorizing books. Yep! Seriously, just stop posting.

BTW: MD at 24 here. But I thought you said the youngest Dr. you ever met was 30? lolz:poosie:


lol ... k you're just acting that way. I thought something was actually wrong with you. No point in being a doctor ..until you can't work on your own. You know what I meant all the time. Having a doctor in front of my name is useless until I can serve the patients. People actually start calling themselves doctors as soon as they get into the Med. school. Just a matter of time before people call themselves doctors at the thought of going to a med school.
oh yeh and a fake .... lol :poosie: I don't think it makes a point any better. But o well ...

[forkdork]

Originally posted by cashflow



lol ... k you're just acting that way. I thought something was actually wrong with you. No point in being a doctor ..until you can't work on your own. You know what I meant all the time. Having a doctor in front of my name is useless until I can serve the patients. People actually start calling themselves doctors as soon as they get into the Med. school. Just a matter of time before people call themselves doctors at the thought of going to a med school.
oh yeh and a fake .... lol :poosie: I don't think it makes a point any better. But o well ...

So how many times have you been rejected?

I'd probably be bitter too.

[cashflow]

Originally posted by kertejud2


The reason that 95% of students need to get a Bachelor's or more is because only 2500 people get accepted to Med School every year out of 10,000+ applicants.

So yes, it can take more than 4 years to go into medicine, it can also take 2 years to get into medicine. I know people who needed one year of schooling (got bumped to 2nd year because of AP classes) and were doctors at 22. When you are in your residency, you are a doctor. When you do clinical rotations, you are a doctor. "Finishing" education is a misleading because no doctor is really ever finished learning, technology changes so fast.

Between Canada and the Royal College countries (UK, Ireland, South Africa, Australia, Singapore, Hong Kong etc.) you'd be looking at these differences (on average):

Canada:
2-4 years university, 4 years Med school, +up to 6 years specializing

RCPS
6 years Medicine program, up to 6 years specializing.

Now of course this is what is required of course. In Canada most people take 4 years, but in the RCPS you also can have applicants with undergraduate degrees (they often get to skip the first year or maybe two dependig on their degree).

The reason you don't see many doctors (or at least people calling themselves doctors) is because they aren't finished specializing.


Now the point is that your claims of a 6 year difference are bullshit and you don't know what you're talking about. In Canada, you're looking at 10-14 years to become a specialized doctor (say a neurosurgeon), in the rest of the world, you're looking at a minimum of 12 years to become a specialized doctor (say a neurosurgeon).


And while we're on the subject, the RCSP has long been thinking of making an undergraduate degree a requirement and cutting down the Medicine program to 4 years. Simply because they get so many applicants with BScs anyway, its a good additional vetting process.

You claimed med school was just a lot of memorizing, a lot of it is. But there are many required courses that are simply to weed out those who got that far just because they can memorize (O-Chem is one of the favorites for this). And doctors are always learning as I mentioned. My father went to medical school over 30 years ago, in a different country. Would you really want him to just use the knowledge he was taught in the 70s? He's over 50 years old and hasn't stopped educating himself on medicine since he was 18.


But keep talking out of your ass.


k thanks for letting me know that you don't what you're talking abt. Although the world is moving towards and American system which means being a student until your mid 30s (and med. schools realizing that education can be used to make more money) many countries in Europe and Asia still have the same system. The original British system. Grade 11 and 12 are more intense compared to the joke here. In N. American Medicine is usually second entry, which mean you can't get into University of ALberta med. school after Grade 12. Obviously because Universities treat students as money machines and make us pay as much as possible before we leave and filthy managements fill their pockets every year. If that British was followed here, it'd cut atleast 2 for a very few and 4-5 years for many students off unnecessary and useless studying.
In other countries because Grade 12 is more challenging they write MCAT right after grade 12 because going thru the Bachelors crap. And people who get into Med. school, know it right after the MCATs. So they don't have to waste 2 years (and obviously pay stupendous amounts of money .. and waste 2 years worth of time) to realize that you can't make it and so take admissions in some other faculty or something. And obviously then we have shortage of doctors, the useful people who are not good enough to work on their own because they've been sitting thru 10 years of med school and still need somebody to watch over them. If they could graduate 4-5 years faster, which they can ... no doubt ....things would be so much better. But alas ...hopeless continues to build in people and even intelligence today stands for memorizing and copy-pasting. A smarter person today is just better at rote memorization. Not being logical. Sad ...

[cashflow]

Originally posted by forkdork


So how many times have you been rejected?

I'd probably be bitter too.

umm I know where you're coming from man. A common human tendency of not waking up to something bad until it harms you on a personal level. But it doesn't hurt to be precautionary as we have future generations who may have to go through the same ridiculous system.

[D. Dub]

Originally posted by cashflow


. But alas ...hopeless continues to build in people and even intelligence today stands for memorizing and copy-pasting. A smarter person today is just better at rote memorization. Not being logical. Sad ...

Umm... do you have any idea what you are talking about.... at all?!?!?!

My wife is an MD and I have a Master's degree and am currently working on my second.

I can assure you that neither of us have relied on simple rote memorization or copy and pasting in our education. :rolleyes:

Do doctors have to memorize info -- duhh obviously -- but that is only a means to an ends not the ends itself. The memorized info is then used as the foundation for critical thinking and as part of diagnostic treatment algorithms.

As far as graduate education in any field -- it's about critical thinking.

Please stop talking out of your ass... it's getting old -- how about using the effort and energy wasted in your diatribe to actually get an education?

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by cashflow


k thanks for letting me know that you don't what you're talking abt. Although the world is moving towards and American system which means being a student until your mid 30s (and med. schools realizing that education can be used to make more money) many countries in Europe and Asia still have the same system.

Med School is 4 years in Canada and the U.S (sometimes 3). If they wanted to make more money, they'd go to the RCPS system because then they'd get to take the money for a full 6 years.

You don't pay any school for your specialization, hospitals pay you during your specialization.


The original British system. Grade 11 and 12 are more intense compared to the joke here.

It sonly intense because they put all the exams at the same time (like the SATs). Just a lot of memorization and regurgitation just like everywhere else, the only difference is that they didn't spread it out like here.

And if Grade 11 and 12 isn't challenging enough take AP classes, that's what the smart kids do.


In N. American Medicine is usually second entry, which mean you can't get into University of ALberta med. school after Grade 12. Obviously because Universities treat students as money machines and make us pay as much as possible before we leave and filthy managements fill their pockets every year. If that British was followed here, it'd cut atleast 2 for a very few and 4-5 years for many students off unnecessary and useless studying.

And it could add a year or 2 for some students as well. Again, the reason the RCPS is thinking of changing isn't for money (the Medical faculty would be losing 2 years of payments), its because they get so many applicants with Bachelor's degrees who have to waste a year re-doing what they already did



In other countries because Grade 12 is more challenging they write MCAT right after grade 12 because going thru the Bachelors crap. And people who get into Med. school, know it right after the MCATs. So they don't have to waste 2 years (and obviously pay stupendous amounts of money .. and waste 2 years worth of time) to realize that you can't make it and so take admissions in some other faculty or something.

You can take the MCATs right out of high school here as well. If you ace them you wont need to take it again and have it for your application.



And obviously then we have shortage of doctors, the useful people who are not good enough to work on their own because they've been sitting thru 10 years of med school and still need somebody to watch over them. If they could graduate 4-5 years faster, which they can ... no doubt ....things would be so much better.

Holy fuck you're stupid. Med School is 4 years. No more, sometimes less (3 years). I don't know what the hell you're talking about with "10 years of med school" nobody is in med school for 10 fucking years. You either don't know what med school is or you are borderline retarded.

And the shortage of doctors isn't because it takes so long to graduate (it takes 4 years), its because there are a set number of med school spots, every single one of which are filled every year. In fact about 90% of applicants don't get in. If Med School was about the money you'd think they'd open a spot or two to get more $$$.

We could open a debate about the funding to open more med school spots, but you can hardly grasp how long it takes to graduate and put it into coherent sentences ( :english: )


Again, after 4 years of med school, you have 4-6 years specializing. THIS IS NOT MED SCHOOL! This is done everywhere. Canada, the U.S., the UK, Ireland, Singapore, Hong Kong, Australia, South Africa etc. etc. etc.

Once you get into Med School in Canada, it takes 10 years to become a neurosurgeon or a cardiac surgeon or an orthapedic surgeon. It will take 8 years to become a Family doctor, or a dermatologist or an anaesthesiologist.

In Britain, upon getting into Med school, it will take you 12 years to become a neuro, cardiac or orthapedic surgeon and 10 years to become a family doctor or anaesthesiologist.

You seem to want to change the way we get into medicine, but that doesn't change. The reason you need 2 or 4 or 6 years of post-secondary is because you just didn't have what they wanted when you applied the first time, and there's 10,000 other people all applying for the same 2,500 spots.
And you also claim its about money, as if the U of C faculty of Medicine cares how long you spent paying the U of L or UWO or Dalhousie for your Bachelor's degree. They get the money when you're in med school, if it is was about the money, they'd want you in as soon as possible for as long as possible. Instead, you're in for 4 (sometimes 3) and out, onto do whatever it is you want to do.


But alas ...hopeless continues to build in people and even intelligence today stands for memorizing and copy-pasting. A smarter person today is just better at rote memorization. Not being logical. Sad ...

Yet you think high school students should take the MCATs, fucking brilliant.

And I'm still not sure how you think 2 years of post-secondary, or even a BSc discourages logical thinking? Going by this logic (OMG logical thinking!) it would make most sense to require a PhD before becoming a doctor because not only were you able to memorize early on (still a very important requirement for becoming a doctor), you showed critical thinking skills to get your Masters and your PhD.

So, you'd support all doctors requiring some form of post-graduate degree I assume?

[cashflow]

Originally posted by kertejud2


Med School is 4 years in Canada and the U.S (sometimes 3). If they wanted to make more money, they'd go to the RCPS system because then they'd get to take the money for a full 6 years.

You don't pay any school for your specialization, hospitals pay you during your specialization.



It sonly intense because they put all the exams at the same time (like the SATs). Just a lot of memorization and regurgitation just like everywhere else, the only difference is that they didn't spread it out like here.

And if Grade 11 and 12 isn't challenging enough take AP classes, that's what the smart kids do.



And it could add a year or 2 for some students as well. Again, the reason the RCPS is thinking of changing isn't for money (the Medical faculty would be losing 2 years of payments), its because they get so many applicants with Bachelor's degrees who have to waste a year re-doing what they already did



You can take the MCATs right out of high school here as well. If you ace them you wont need to take it again and have it for your application.




Holy fuck you're stupid. Med School is 4 years. No more, sometimes less (3 years). I don't know what the hell you're talking about with "10 years of med school" nobody is in med school for 10 fucking years. You either don't know what med school is or you are borderline retarded.

And the shortage of doctors isn't because it takes so long to graduate (it takes 4 years), its because there are a set number of med school spots, every single one of which are filled every year. In fact about 90% of applicants don't get in. If Med School was about the money you'd think they'd open a spot or two to get more $$$.

We could open a debate about the funding to open more med school spots, but you can hardly grasp how long it takes to graduate and put it into coherent sentences ( :english: )


Again, after 4 years of med school, you have 4-6 years specializing. THIS IS NOT MED SCHOOL! This is done everywhere. Canada, the U.S., the UK, Ireland, Singapore, Hong Kong, Australia, South Africa etc. etc. etc.

Once you get into Med School in Canada, it takes 10 years to become a neurosurgeon or a cardiac surgeon or an orthapedic surgeon. It will take 8 years to become a Family doctor, or a dermatologist or an anaesthesiologist.

In Britain, upon getting into Med school, it will take you 12 years to become a neuro, cardiac or orthapedic surgeon and 10 years to become a family doctor or anaesthesiologist.

You seem to want to change the way we get into medicine, but that doesn't change. The reason you need 2 or 4 or 6 years of post-secondary is because you just didn't have what they wanted when you applied the first time, and there's 10,000 other people all applying for the same 2,500 spots.
And you also claim its about money, as if the U of C faculty of Medicine cares how long you spent paying the U of L or UWO or Dalhousie for your Bachelor's degree. They get the money when you're in med school, if it is was about the money, they'd want you in as soon as possible for as long as possible. Instead, you're in for 4 (sometimes 3) and out, onto do whatever it is you want to do.



Yet you think high school students should take the MCATs, fucking brilliant.

And I'm still not sure how you think 2 years of post-secondary, or even a BSc discourages logical thinking? Going by this logic (OMG logical thinking!) it would make most sense to require a PhD before becoming a doctor because not only were you able to memorize early on (still a very important requirement for becoming a doctor), you showed critical thinking skills to get your Masters and your PhD.

So, you'd support all doctors requiring some form of post-graduate degree I assume?


Either you're acting stupid or you really are one. First of all I am opposing the Bachelors coming between a Ph.D. for those who wish to become MDs. That is a utter waste of 4 years and money. It's not rigorous n shii. The high school is made so easy because they want, everybody to somehow, someway "graduate." So that the graduation rate is high. And then obviously people who're willing to get further education have to spend unnecessary time at the university.

Yeh right, write MCAT after high school ... you know they don't have 2x+y=4 on MCAT. Because that is what we're prepared for at the High school. Yeh now act like a smartass, and literally pull and question out of MCAT that actually has that equation and they pick a foolish smilie to make your point stand. IB or AP are a little harder compared to the regular high school joke syllabus, but unless it could guarantee completion of all the Pre-reqs and other requirements, it's of no use. The way you're talking MCAT can be written even in Junior high.

Now don't act like there is no brain between your ears and everything just floats in from one and goes out the other. In most countries, particularly countries who have British system... there is an equivalent MCAT test right after Grade 12. And yes yes yes they are prepared for that in Grade 11 and 12. You'd probably suggest they write it in Grade 5 or something but your school has to prepare you as well. And thousands of candidates write that test. People between ...lets say ...rank 1-1000 .. in that entrance test would be awarded admission in the Best Med. school and as the ranks go down, the level of colleges start to go down as well. For example if your rank is 780 you'd get in at McGill and if you're at 80,000 or something you get in at the U of Calgary. Then they have 4-5 years of Med. school and 1 year of Internship not 6 years of "specialization." So at maximum people are done ... virtually good to practice until they're 24. Now how many Doctors have you seen owning a practice when they're 25????? That's the point I was trying to make. And you'd probably say those doctors suck...don't know crap...i'd be reluctant to get treated by them ...yeh sure and the ignorant list would take forever to end. But at least they're useful and treat their patients.

Another good thing abt that system is if somebody can't get accepted into Med. school they won't have to waste a couple of years at the minimum or more to realize that they can't make it and then take up some other faculty to being all over again. (Sry for talking in German but its my first language so 'm used to it. But hey you understand it pretty well. As i learn it, i'll probably try to talk in English as well.)

Even University makes jumping a 100 ft wall a requirement for people who can't get enough marks, you'd probably start defending that too. (...there are so many people wanting to get in ...how else do you think they'd weed out people ... blah blah blah.) Somebody who tries to suggest that its wrong and illogical you'd start using the typical lame sarcasm.

Can't you see, how education system is a simple money making scheme for those in the management. Fee keeps going up every damn year and nobody gives a rat's butt abt that. Even sad is when people defend it and accept it. The heads of the society are making people pay for every single thing possible. Just a matter of time before a face mask becomes a compulsion and then everybody would have to pay like 2cents for every breath taken. And hopeless would still overcome us as we would somehow, someway manage a way to defend the govt. Because we're too busy and drunk to change the stupidity that's going around in our daily lives. Keep enjoying your lives and following anything the system tells you to do. It's just easier that way. Anyhow man, just give it some more time, afterall there is only a limit to what people can take ... I really hope there is.

But it's peace out from my side.