Tories to abolish 'two-for-one' prison-time credit

[masoncgy]

CTV.ca News Article (http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20090324/prison_credit_090325/20090325?hub=TopStories)

The Conservative government is planning to introduce legislation Thursday to end the "two-for-one" credit judges often grant convicted felons for time spent in pre-trial custody, CTV News has learned.

The credit aims to compensate for so-called "dead time" criminals spend in overcrowded detention centres that do not have rehabilitation programs or many of the amenities of long-term prison housing.

Critics who want the "two-for-one" credit to end argue that some prisoners abuse the system by trying to stretch their pre-trial time to cut their time behind bars later.

CTV's Roger Smith, reporting from Ottawa, said Wednesday that the Tory legislation will likely have the support of the Liberals.

* It's about time... that's all I can say!

[3g4u]

Small step in the right direction.:thumbsup:

[badatusrnames]

:clap:

Blame the judges for doling it out so easily...

[Canmorite]

Right on. Now build more prisons.

[G-Suede]

Originally posted by Canmorite
Right on. Now build more prisons.

Better yet, breed less scumbags.

[Kloubek]

I didn't even know this 2-for-1 thing existed. It's a good idea, but doesn't work in real life because (as mentioned in the article) our legal system is so messed up that criminals can drag a trial on forever.

[TKRIS]

Originally posted by Canmorite
Right on. Now build more prisons.

Disagree.
Spend that prison building money on schools and education, and get rid of all the stupid fucking laws that criminalize harmless behavior (pot, for example), and we'll be much better off.

If there's not enough $$$ for that. How about we pull cable television out of our current prisons and use that money to buy computers for schools?

[Canmorite]

Originally posted by TKRIS


Disagree.
Spend that prison building money on schools and education, and get rid of all the stupid fucking laws that criminalize harmless behavior (pot, for example), and we'll be much better off.

If there's not enough $$$ for that. How about we pull cable television out of our current prisons and use that money to buy computers for schools?

Well they are going to see space most likely. I do agree with the educational side, but even smart kids get dragged into the shitty life of crime.

Pot would be interesting. Do you allow people to smoke it, and not deal it? What's the cut off limit for dealing? A lot of the current dealers sell pot but everything else along with it...

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by TKRIS

If there's not enough $$$ for that. How about we pull cable television out of our current prisons and use that money to buy computers for schools?

As somebody said in another thread, prison needs to be a place you don't want to be. They should provide the basic human necessities, hold the inmates accordingly so their human rights are preserved (even though I don't really agree they should have rights as criminals, thats for a different discussion), and then put them through their paces.

[narou]

:bigpimp:

[TKRIS]

Originally posted by Canmorite


Well they are going to see space most likely. I do agree with the educational side, but even smart kids get dragged into the shitty life of crime.

We'll still have prisons for them, but there will be a lot less of them.

Mark Twain
Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog.


Originally posted by Canmorite
Pot would be interesting. Do you allow people to smoke it, and not deal it? What's the cut off limit for dealing? A lot of the current dealers sell pot but everything else along with it...

I don't give a shit what you do with it. What you put into your body is none of my, or the government's, business. We really couldn't possibly treat pot any worse than we're currently treating it, so no matter what approach you take, it's going to be better than the retarded shit we're currently doing.

[Jynx]

Correct me if im wrong but doesnt two for one time spent in pre trial custody also help compensate for wasting your time in the event your found not guilty? There has to be some logic for having this policy in the first place? and it can just be because your in a shithole that has no rehab programs!

[Canmorite]

Originally posted by TKRIS
I don't give a shit what you do with it. What you put into your body is none of my, or the government's, business. We really couldn't possibly treat pot any worse than we're currently treating it, so no matter what approach you take, it's going to be better than the retarded shit we're currently doing.

Pot I can understand. The same goes for harder drugs and substances? I'm trying to imagine a society where there are no laws against any drugs, and what would happen to the general health and productivity of it. Hard to gauge.

I doubt everyone would be out to get high all the time, but the health effects could be major. I personally don't want to pay into health insurance to cover someone who's strung out on heroin all the time...

[TKRIS]

Originally posted by Canmorite


Pot I can understand. The same goes for harder drugs and substances? I'm trying to imagine a society where there are no laws against any drugs, and what would happen to the general health and productivity of it. Hard to gauge.

I doubt everyone would be out to get high all the time, but the health effects could be major. I personally don't want to pay into health insurance to cover someone who's strung out on heroin all the time...

Hard drugs are a different matter. I support the decriminalization of all drugs simply because, as I said, it's your body. That said, it's only feasible with a fairly substantial societal, and political, change, so it's really another topic all together.
Pot, on the other hand, requires no such major "paradigm shift". Not only could it be easily decriminalized and properly handled, I feel we have a certain responsibility to do so. As you're already alluded to, and as everyone with a half a fucking brain well knows, criminalizing pot does way more harm than good.

[Canmorite]

Originally posted by TKRIS


Hard drugs are a different matter. I support the decriminalization of all drugs simply because, as I said, it's your body. That said, it's only feasible with a fairly substantial societal, and political, change, so it's really another topic all together.
Pot, on the other hand, requires no such major "paradigm shift". Not only could it be easily decriminalized and properly handled, I feel we have a certain responsibility to do so. As you're already alluded to, and as everyone with a half a fucking brain well knows, criminalizing pot does way more harm than good.

Agree, but like you said the political change behind it required will take a long time, as well as the rest of society to eventually realize this shit is no worse then alcohol.

Society has a hard time with it because many people associate pot with crime, bad neighborhoods, etc etc. It's the mental image I assume...

[5hift]

Making pot legal would do more than just free up wasted police time and court/prison resources.

Pot is used as currency in exchange for US guns and white. Legalization would crash prices, as weed would become even easier to get, resulting in the entire bc lower mainland criminal base having an extrememly devalued currency.

Think about how many resources used fighting grow ops, kidnappings, drug rips would be freed up.

[TKRIS]

I tend to disagree (EDIT: In response to Canmorite). I don't think it would be a very drastic transformation.
Even my parents agree that pot shouldn't be illegal. haha

I've looked for that argument before, and it's amazing how difficult it is to find anyone who actually think that pot is that big of a deal. The best I've found are people who wouldn't be comfortable saying it should be legal, but admit that there's really no reason for it not to be.
There will be a smattering of stupid people who bitch and raise a stink, but they've got no rational behind their arguments, and they'll promptly be told by the other 97% of society to STFU.

Someone just has to have the balls to go ahead and do it. Unfortunately, courage isn't exactly one of our most abundant resources.

For the record: No, I'm not much of a pot smoker. ;)

[ChestRockwell]

Originally posted by Canmorite


Pot I can understand. The same goes for harder drugs and substances? I'm trying to imagine a society where there are no laws against any drugs, and what would happen to the general health and productivity of it. Hard to gauge.

I doubt everyone would be out to get high all the time, but the health effects could be major. I personally don't want to pay into health insurance to cover someone who's strung out on heroin all the time...

In Portugal right now all drugs are decriminalized even things like heroin and cocaine.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/03/14/portugal/index.html

[kaput]

.

[Canmorite]

Originally posted by ChestRockwell


In Portugal right now all drugs are decriminalized even things like heroin and cocaine.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/03/14/portugal/index.html

Interesting article. I still think there has to be something implemented to curb demand, but as to what I have no idea. I agree that people should be allowed to do as they wish, but the negative effects on things like health care could be huge and there would be outrage if junkies are abusing the system. I don't want to pay for that shit.

I'm sure quite a few employers would implement piss tests, too.

[spikerS]

look at it this way, this is GREAT news for the economy!

The prisons may become over crowded. so they have to build new prisions.

They hire contractors to build them, buy supplies, hire administrators and guards, contract companies to supply food, maintenance on prison buses, buying equipment ect....

Put 1 criminal in jail, and you can hire 5 people to keep him there.

easy way to punish the criminals, and create jobs!

Harper would look like a varitable god if he did this in Ontario!

[The Cosworth]

Originally posted by spikers
look at it this way, this is GREAT news for the economy!

The prisons may become over crowded. so they have to build new prisions.

They hire contractors to build them, buy supplies, hire administrators and guards, contract companies to supply food, maintenance on prison buses, buying equipment ect....

Put 1 criminal in jail, and you can hire 5 people to keep him there.

easy way to punish the criminals, and create jobs!

Harper would look like a varitable god if he did this in Ontario!

that is a scary thought, much like the first english bobbies who were on commission to stop them from slacking. Little foresight meant that they had hundreds of people arrested a night for minor offenses or even nothing.

[spikerS]

Originally posted by TKRIS


I don't give a shit what you do with it. What you put into your body is none of my, or the government's, business.

But it is yous and my business, and the governments business.

When someone does something stupid, or over doses on a drug ect, where do they go? THE HOSPITAL.

Who pays for the hospital?

The governments.

Who pays the governments?

you and I do through taxes.

That is why there are laws in place, We have to support the crack heads, and the idiots darwin should have taken care of long ago. If people cant make the right decesions, they have rules to follow to guide them.

The government does not care if you have chicken or beef tonight, but if they have to keep spending $50k for ech drug overdose when the uneducated masses go too far, yeah, it's their business.

Greater good.

[TKRIS]

^No, it's not.
Something doesn't become your business simply because you refuse to stop sticking your nose in uninvited.

You seem to think universal healthcare is something that can't, or shouldn't, be changed. I disagree. In any event, this is one of the areas where a major shift would be required, like I've already said in this thread.

Neither you, nor government, have rights over my body.
You can try to regulate it and appoint yourself that power, but as the "War on Drugs" clearly demonstrates, it's completely futile and only exacerbates the problem.


In any event, this is all completely beside the point, as marijuana is the drug being addressed in this thread, so none of these arguments are even remotely relevant.

[gatorade]

Originally posted by spikers


But it is yous and my business, and the governments business.

When someone does something stupid, or over doses on a drug ect, where do they go? THE HOSPITAL.

Who pays for the hospital?

The governments.

Who pays the governments?

you and I do through taxes.

That is why there are laws in place, We have to support the crack heads, and the idiots darwin should have taken care of long ago. If people cant make the right decesions, they have rules to follow to guide them.

The government does not care if you have chicken or beef tonight, but if they have to keep spending $50k for ech drug overdose when the uneducated masses go too far, yeah, it's their business.

Greater good.

who the hell goes to the hospital because they were smoking weed?

[kaput]

.

[5hift]

Originally posted by kaput
^Depends where you get it from. There are lots of producers/dealers who lace it with other chemicals and drugs to get people hooked on their particular variety. It can be tough to find an honorable drug dealer these days...

lol always a good laugh when someone says this

Lacing weed with a stronger drug without the custie knowing would mean the drug dealer is spending his own money to buy the more expensive/more addictive drugs to lace a cheap drug (the weed) in order to get the custie addicted to the weed?

This would cost the dealer more than it would make him. Most guys that sell weed to personal smokers are not doing it for the money, just to smoke for free.