Rick Bell: Since when is expecting immigrants to learn our languages a racist act?

[urban.one]

Since when is expecting immigrants to learn our languages a racist act?
By RICK BELL

Last Updated: 16th April 2009, 3:41am

What's amazing about talking to Jason Kenney, Canada's immigration boss, is how what he's talking could ever be controversial.

"We should be unapologetic about teaching new citizens our history and the values, symbols and institutions rooted in our history," says Jason, at his local riding HQ in a Deer Run strip mall.

You know, it's the office with two pictures of Her Majesty, a Support Our Troops sign, a Sun front page and a print of an old immigration poster with a cowboy on horseback welcoming strangers with 160 acres of free land.

"In the citizenship book leading to the citizenship test there is not a sentence on Canada's military history. You'd never know 120,000 Canadians paid the ultimate sacrifice in the defence of freedom in the last century but there is a page on recycling."

"Let's all be proud of our heritage but diversity is not an end in itself. We don't want to end up like some of the European countries where people live as though they're in a foreign country. We want everyone who comes here to be proud of their heritage but become Canadians."

"I don't think there's a contradiction. I'm saying this because I hear a lot of it from new Canadians."

"We don't want government-enforced diversity. Canada is already diverse. There's a Chinese restaurant next door, an Indian restaurant down the street, here in Deer Run. The Chinese and Indian restaurants didn't get started with a government subsidy, they did it because it's a natural part of society."

The citizenship test will be reworked. Later this year material will be added on Canadian history, values and government. And soon Jason's BlackBerry will make that annoying mooing sound and someone will really get under his skin. But not yet.

Jason says "broad, mainstream" Canadian values include the rule of law, equality of men and women, respect for religious freedom, the right to free speech and social responsibility.

"We need to focus on what unites us and make sure people are integrated."

"We're not trying to make it impossible for people to become citizens. We just want to make sure they have a good understanding of Canadian history, civics and values. I think in the past there was a certain political correctness where it was felt somehow an unfair imposition to talk about our Canadian values."

Then the BlackBerry starts to moo. It's the translation of a Chinese newspaper article.

Liberal MP Ujjal Dosanjh challenges Jason to debate the English language requirement for citizenship. Dosanjh suspects Jason held the supposed anti-immigration position of the Reform and Alliance parties.

He accuses Jason of having a hidden agenda where immigrants must speak fluent English before coming to Canada.

"This is typical, cynical Liberal narrowcasting. He said this to the editorial board of a Chinese language newspaper. This is disgusting Liberal wedge politics," says the irate immigration minister.

There will be more on Ujjal, but first Jason says he's talked to the top citizenship judge about "consistently applying" the law where immigrants, except children and seniors, must speak basic English or French to be citizens.

"The judges can waive the written test and go to an oral test. I guess, in some cases, it's like the professor who gave his whole class straight As. In some cases, the bar had been lowered, in my judgement, to an unacceptable level."

"For citizenship the law has always been you have to be able to demonstrate a basic ability in communicate in English or French. If you want to get ahead in Canada, it's real helpful if you speak a little English or French. I'm not saying you have to be fluent but let's maintain the basic bar. Let's not lower it."

Throughout the interview, you can hear more than a hint of self-justification in Jason's voice. Has the rest of the country finally got to him?

"In certain elite circles in central Canada I've found a kind of incredibly negative stereotype of the West, the prairies in particular, Alberta in particular, on issues of diversity and immigration. There is a stereotype amongst some that we're all a bunch of bigots. I can't believe these buffoonish caricatures."

Jason points to fact versus fiction, six Sri Lankans working at a Boston Pizza in Olds, embraced by a community central Canadian bigots of the self-styled smart set would no doubt write off as rednecks.

Jason can't leave that article on the BlackBerry alone, but what's on the screen is so typical of the grief you get.

"It's this kind of junk that should have to be justified, this kind of cynical, vicious, smear language," he says.

"As soon as someone says new Canadians, except seniors and kids, should have a basic ability to communicate in English or French and should know about Canadian history and values I'm being accused of being essentially racist. Outrageous."

"How do you think I should respond to this guy? This is the thing I face every single damn day."

[email protected]

[Thomas Gabriel]

I don't think they should have to learn English. But if they don't get a job, they definitely shouldn't receive government aid.

[Super_Geo]

I agree with him 100%... otherwise why the fuck are you here?

[masoncgy]

No, don't learn French or English, don't learn about our culture, customs & heritage... just come over, demand that we change to suit your needs, and hole up in your own communities...

Yeah, that's working real well!

Oh, I guess I'm a racist now. :rolleyes:

[cycosis]

I think they should learn one of the two official languages. Do it our way or get the fuck out and go back home

[ZenOps]

I dunno.

British that moved into Hong Kong - never really did grasp Chinese Mandarin or Cantonese. And yet its a manufacturing and commerce hub that exceeds New York in almost every aspect with a higher GDP of the entire of Canada.

Spoken language is becoming less and less important. If you can program a computer its probably going to get you futher than speaking English or French nowadays. Lord knows you can control billions of dollars with just a few lines of errant code. Its also where an Indian can exceed most North Americans in yearly wages, not really needing to know either spoken language, but have a heavy grasp of computer language.

"MOV AX, BX INT 21H POKE DX,AX"

I think the english requirement is not a bad idea - but higher emphasis should be put on those who are computer literate. If they are truely computer fluent - they can be a deaf-mute for all I care.

English is quite easy to learn in comparison to some languages. 26-characters makes for quick and easy typing too, so it is a perfect fit for computerization. Not like the freaking evil Chinese keyboard which has some 3,000 buttons if you had individual keys for each one, lol.

[heavyD]

I'm all for raising immigration standards. The word 'racism' gets tossed around so much now it's beginning to lose its true meaning.

[Primer_Drift]

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/04qib4V08b479/610x.jpg

What's this guys problem? From what I know of India, they are pretty fluent in english.. at least their call center workers are.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by ZenOps
Spoken language is becoming less and less important. If you can program a computer its probably going to get you futher than speaking English or French nowadays. Lord knows you can control billions of dollars with just a few lines of errant code. Its also where an Indian can exceed most North Americans in yearly wages, not really needing to know either spoken language, but have a heavy grasp of computer language.

You're missing the point. What does programming code have to do with learning Canadian values & heritage?

[95EagleAWD]

Originally posted by heavyD
I'm all for raising immigration standards. The word 'racism' gets tossed around so much now it's beginning to lose its true meaning.

No kidding.

This is getting ridiculous. If you want to live in Canada and become Canadian, then you should know about the country and speak the language that we speak here.

[mx73someday]

I think it's hypocritical of anyone to say that first generation immigrants should speak English or get the fuck out. Many of you probably had European grandparents or great-grandparents immigrate here with no ability to speak English. Do you all speak native American, or did your predecessors get the fuck out when they refused to learn it?

[alloroc]

I voted for Rick Bell when he ran for Mayor.

[95EagleAWD]

Originally posted by mx73someday
I think it's hypocritical of anyone to say that first generation immigrants should speak English or get the fuck out. Many of you probably had European grandparents or great-grandparents immigrate here with no ability to speak English. Do you all speak native American, or did your predecessors get the fuck out when they refused to learn it?

Can you really equate that with today?

Besides, the European takeover of North America was hardly immigrating, it was a hostile takeover.

And no, I don't speak native American. Why would I? I live in Canada, not North America 400 years ago.

[ZenOps]

Originally posted by heavyD


You're missing the point. What does programming code have to do with learning Canadian values & heritage?

Nothing.

Should learning Canada's heritage really be a requirement? I mean - Should we really require every immigrant to recite at least one Bryan Adams song :rofl:

Canada doesn't really have a strong identity - our culture is a not quite 150 year old mismash of multiculturalism (mandated by the Queen) with maybe Bob and Doug Mckenzie, beer, backbacon and maple syrup, and a complete aversion to war the only things defining us from anyone else.

[ZenOps]

Most first generation Albertans did not speak english.

Most spoke German, its only by the time the second generation grew up did english start to become more prevalent. By the time WWII was decided, the german language was pretty well wiped out in Alberta for social fear as much as anything else.

Quebec was mostly French. The very early southern US was mostly Spanish (and is returning to Spanish/Latin/Latino dominance once again) Nina, Pinta, Santa Maria being the ships to discover America afterall.

Chinese always stayed with Chinese immigrants because white people just can't seem to figure it out - lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1ZTbfxCABw < Rarer than winning 6/49 .

[heavyD]

Originally posted by ZenOps
Canada doesn't really have a strong identity

Which is the problem they are trying to address.;)

[Hakkola]

Originally posted by ZenOps
I dunno.

British that moved into Hong Kong - never really did grasp Chinese Mandarin or Cantonese. And yet its a manufacturing and commerce hub that exceeds New York in almost every aspect with a higher GDP of the entire of Canada.



You might want to take a look at the history of Hong Kong. It was pretty much nothing before the British took it with only a population of maybe a couple thousand, and turned it into a shipping port and commerce centre for Asia, where China alone has over a billion people now.

Also, Hong Kong has a lower GDP than Canada.


Hong Kong: GDP (purchasing power parity):
$293.4 billion (2007 est.)
GDP - per capita (PPP):
$42,000 (2007 est.)

Canada
GDP (purchasing power parity):
$1.307 trillion (2008 est.)

GDP - per capita (PPP):
$39,300 (2008 est.)

So the GDP per capita is a little lower, but in comparison of Canada to Hong Kong, Hong Kong doesn't even come close.

:facepalm:

What are all these ways in which Hong Kong exceeds New York?

I'm going to check this thread later to see you post and completely ignore my comment.

[cosmok]

Originally posted by heavyD


Which is the problem they are trying to address.;)
:thumbsup:

[ZenOps]

And somewhat off topic:

Language is only on Canadas list of priorities.

Everyone else on the freaking planet is much more concerned about power (oil and or electricity) There have been talks about unifying the world power grid to one electricity standard, either 120 or 240 volts.

It will be an interesting upheaval if it does ever someday go through - because for the transition period - every single piece of electronic item on the "losing" side, will have to convert at extreme expense to the other electricity standard. Since China manufactures more than 50 percent of electronic trinkets, I'd be willing to say that whatever electrical standard China backs - will eventually win. (Although I was wrong on the HD-DVD vs Bluray thing, I still think that neither standard will win.)

China is also the frontrunner for creating a unified global currency - now more than ever that the US dollar is inflating like a balloon.

Oh definitely requiring someone to convert to a standard (language/religion/anything) can be very discriminatory. I would not like to see the people rioting in the streets when they have to throw away all their 120 volt appliances/TV's/etc to conform to a unified world power grid standard. But its on the horizon.

Requiring someone to learn English/feign fealty to Christianity is easy. Telling them to replace all their electronics and HDTV because they won't run anymore would probably be much harder, but also infinitely more useful and productive on a global scale.

Language issues can almost be completely mitigated with one button "SAP" on your remote control, or babelfish on the internet. Never before in the history of mankind has it been easier to maintain multiculturalism with so little effort. Which is why I believe that the Queen has upheld this idea for Canada.

[psycoticclown]

I'm Chinese and I agree with this guy. If your going to come here, take the time to at least learn the language, I hate some of the asians that came up to me at my old work and expecting me to know fluent Mandarin which I don't because I only speak Cantonese and expect me to take their order in Mandarin. When I tell them I don't know wtf they're saying they get mad and walk away because they don't know English. :banghead:

[blownz]

Those complaining about requiring someone to speak some basic English or French before becoming a Canadian citizen, I was listening to Jason Kenny on the radio yesterday for about half hour for the live interview and the 'test' they are talking about happens 3 years after you have moved to the country. It is not like they are stopping you at the border if you can't speak one of our languages. They let you in with your family and then after 3 years when you apply for citizenship you have to 'pass' this simple 'test'.

He said they are basically passing everyone right now and he just wants to enforce it more and make it consistent. And he said if you take the test and 'fail' he doesn't want to kick anyone one, just let them know what the expectaions are and give them like 3 months to meet them by providing free English classes or whatever is required. Jason Kenny seems like quite a reasonable guy. I quite enjoyed the interview.



So no need for people to over-react like some idiot thinking this guy wants to stop people at the border telling them to 'get the fuck out' because they don't speak fluent English. :rolleyes:

[szw]

Honestly to me this seems like media (Rick Bell) manufactured outrage that doesn't really exist. Is there really so much outrage he has to deal with? Oh he showed you an article he received on his blackberry with someone challenging him to a debate on the matter? Oh poor you

[3g4u]

It is NOT racist to ask imigrants to have a basic knowledge of Canadian languange and history. People who think otherwise are just self-righteous , ignorant and lazy.

[ThatRx7Guy]

Agreed, whats the issue with having people learn and understand parts of our heritage and language? Like Blownz pointed out, its not like he is stopping them up front from coming.

[hampstor]

When applying for landed immigrant status, a basic knowledge of english should definately be a requirement. The only case where I feel that basic knowledge of english would not be required is for those applying for refugee status.

To throw the word 'racist' when it comes to having basic english skills is absurd. This has nothing to do with race - it's language and communication. If the requirement was for basic english skills for non 'white' people, then yeah, racist - however what they're talking about would apply to germans, polish, and ukranians as well as indians, chinese, vietnamese, etc.


At the end of the day, this article is making a mountain out of a molehill. This isn't as big of a problem as Rick Bell is make it out to be.

[SScott]

if you're coming here for a better life how the fuck are you going to achieve that when you're not adapting to what makes our lives so great here in Canada.

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by szw
Honestly to me this seems like media (Rick Bell) manufactured outrage that doesn't really exist. Is there really so much outrage he has to deal with? Oh he showed you an article he received on his blackberry with someone challenging him to a debate on the matter? Oh poor you

Everything that Bandwagon Bell says is manufactured hysteria. He grasps at anything he can to make a story.

[szw]

Originally posted by Weapon_R


Everything that Bandwagon Bell says is manufactured hysteria. He grasps at anything he can to make a story.

Seems to work well at getting the typical Beyonder riled up.

[ZenOps]

Originally posted by Hakkola


You might want to take a look at the history of Hong Kong. It was pretty much nothing before the British took it with only a population of maybe a couple thousand, and turned it into a shipping port and commerce centre for Asia, where China alone has over a billion people now.

Also, Hong Kong has a lower GDP than Canada.


Hong Kong: GDP (purchasing power parity):
$293.4 billion (2007 est.)
GDP - per capita (PPP):
$42,000 (2007 est.)

Canada
GDP (purchasing power parity):
$1.307 trillion (2008 est.)

GDP - per capita (PPP):
$39,300 (2008 est.)

So the GDP per capita is a little lower, but in comparison of Canada to Hong Kong, Hong Kong doesn't even come close.

:facepalm:

What are all these ways in which Hong Kong exceeds New York?

I'm going to check this thread later to see you post and completely ignore my comment.

Oh, assuming that New Yorks major standing is because of its containment of the banking system of the entire of the United States.

Those being mainly two banks, Citigroup and Bank of America.

If you check C and BAC on the stock exchange - you will find out that New York - in the short period of a few months of recession - has lost about 10x its value, putting its per capita GDP - actually below most Canadian cities now - and heading lower than even some middle eastern states.

Hong Kong has been hit hard too - but they don't have a mortgage crisis.

California has about two months worth left of funds before they must declare bankruptcy. The whole freaking state. Cocaine does not count toward GDP - Someone forgot to mention that to California, lol.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/jobs-terminated-as-california-goes-bankrupt-1624892.html

"leaves California, one of the world’s wealthiest regions, on the brink of becoming the first state in US history to be declared insolvent."

California is also trying to push a 300% tax increase on cars to combat its $42 billion shortfall this year, and emergency near $100 billion burrito bond cashout. It is already cutting post-secondary and mental health facilities. They started paying government employees with IOU's starting this month, tax rebates will probably be in IOU form. They've already mandated nopay time off for all government employees.

And thats just interest on $7 trillion - oh California - you are so screwed.

Not even the Terminator can save them. You can have a million dollar house - and not be able to afford a loaf of bread. Insolvency is a bitch. Many California homeowners have a million dollar house - that they owe $1.2 million on.

CBC did a docudrama on Detroit, where the land value is actually negative, and you can buy a whole house for under $100.

[spikerS]

absolutely they should have to learn one of the 2 official languages, at least to a point of speaking it fairly well, not fluent, but at least like a grade 6 comprehension level.

and the number 1 biggest reason why?


9-1-1, what is your emergency?

Non parlo inglese (I do not speak english in italian)

[Canmorite]

Originally posted by masoncgy
No, don't learn French or English, don't learn about our culture, customs &amp; heritage... just come over, demand that we change to suit your needs, and hole up in your own communities...

Yeah, that's working real well!

Oh, I guess I'm a racist now. :rolleyes:

I gotta agree here. Why else would you come to Canada if you don't like our values and culture? Staying pigeon holed in your community and never venturing out seems fucked up to me.

[Eleanor]

Did anyone else find that a painful article to read? I think Rick Bell might need to work on his English.

[Rat Fink]

.

[ZorroAMG]

Originally posted by ZenOps


Oh, assuming that New Yorks major standing is because of its containment of the banking system of the entire of the United States.

Those being mainly two banks, Citigroup and Bank of America.

If you check C and BAC on the stock exchange - you will find out that New York - in the short period of a few months of recession - has lost about 10x its value, putting its per capita GDP - actually below most Canadian cities now - and heading lower than even some middle eastern states.

Hong Kong has been hit hard too - but they don't have a mortgage crisis.

California has about two months worth left of funds before they must declare bankruptcy. The whole freaking state. Cocaine does not count toward GDP - Someone forgot to mention that to California, lol.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/jobs-terminated-as-california-goes-bankrupt-1624892.html

&quot;leaves California, one of the world’s wealthiest regions, on the brink of becoming the first state in US history to be declared insolvent.&quot;

California is also trying to push a 300% tax increase on cars to combat its $42 billion shortfall this year, and emergency near $100 billion burrito bond cashout. It is already cutting post-secondary and mental health facilities. They started paying government employees with IOU's starting this month, tax rebates will probably be in IOU form. They've already mandated nopay time off for all government employees.

And thats just interest on $7 trillion - oh California - you are so screwed.

Not even the Terminator can save them. You can have a million dollar house - and not be able to afford a loaf of bread. Insolvency is a bitch. Many California homeowners have a million dollar house - that they owe $1.2 million on.

CBC did a docudrama on Detroit, where the land value is actually negative, and you can buy a whole house for under $100.

So you were WRONG then about hong kong and nyc....I see.

[911fever]

Originally posted by Rat Fink
I don't think I could go to their countries and refuse to speak their language and want their governments to accept my views. I'm pretty sure I'd get my neck slit.

So why do they assume they can do it here? Oh ya, our government is a group of bleeding heart pussies.

Can't speak english or french? fuck off.

Want to live off the system and not earn your dues? fuck off (that applies to canadian born people freeloading on the system too - just fuck off and die)

Want to come here just so you can get a Canadian Passport and then go back to your home lands and have easier travel to places? fuck off and die with a broomstick in your ass

Don't care about Canadian history? Feel threatened when you see a canadian flag in the cafeteria? Don't want to learn the Canadian Anthem? I hope someone comes and fuck starts your face.

hahaha wow someone's angry

[Rat Fink]

.

[CUG]

I agree with the article... mainly for their own sake. Why would you want to have a difficult time here because you can't communicate with everyone?

I could care less from a patriotic sense.

[dragonone]

everyone should know English fluently to be in Canada. and if you're Chinese you should know at least Mandarin, because that's what the majority speaks

i was born and raised in HK by the way, came here in grade 4, went back to HK to finish HKCEE (their diploma), came back and aced 1st yr Uni English, and i have no accent in any of the above languages. i'm not saying i'm extremely successful at the moment, but this thread is only talking about language

am i a good example of what Canada likes? i think it's a little harsh to expect everyone to have such language standards, but at least make sure you understand the road signs or can speak clearly when you dial 911

[jsn]

I'm Chinese and I agree. If you move to any country, not just Canada, you should learn it's language. Why would you want to move to a country and not be able to communicate efficiently with its general population. Often times, it's for better job opportunities, but they're not going to find anything if they can't speak English.

[pinoyhero]

Yeah I think the racist tag is being thrown around a bit too loosely here. I'm not for enforcing history, values or even language for immigrants but I am for enforcing that those who live here are productive members of society and not a burden on the tax payer. This in many cases will mean understanding English and most certainly following our laws.

[sr20s14zenki]

The sad thing is, a few of my friends have relatives who are of different race and have been in canada for like 20 years. Think they can speak english? Not a chance, basic words, grade 1 comprehension MAYBE. Very ignorant of them as far as im concerned. If you havent even PICKED UP on a bit of english being here 20 years, that tells me its not that you CANT learn english, you dont want to learn english. Too many times i have hit a language barrier with people im trying to talk to. If you are going to live here, please at least learn enough english to have a simple conversation, or solve an emergency without a translator.

[dragonone]

i think cases should be dealt with individually (ideally). if your grandparents were to move here from god knows where do you really expect them to learn it tho? Maybe you're a top tax payer and you want your grandparents to have the best health care in the world?

i can see this argument going against mainlanders (lol) because well, even between the same ethnic groups (to you guys) there is a difference in language skills

sometimes tho i see them driving their cayennes or CLS550 and wonder if they're contributing to Canada at all. If they're paying so much for an 'investment' type of immigration maybe one should overlook the language factor. some of us will never contribute enough (dollar-wise) to this country in our whole lifetime compared to what they bring over and spend here.

my .02:devil:

[mx73someday]

It sounds like a lot of people don't value freedom, or other people's freedom. I like the idea of people coming here, owning property and doing as they please on their property, things that were not possible in places they came from. Instead most people in this thread are only concerned about how this affects the welfare they receive from the government.

If you want to impede your own economic value by not becoming fluent in an official language, so be it, that's your freedom to decide. The nice thing about a free country is that there are economic incentives for all people, even those who don't speak the language. Every time you make a restrictive regulation like "immigrants are required to be fluent", you destroy economic incentive and potential.

The concept of the welfare state is the only thing that is threatening people in this thread, if it didn't exist, none of you would care about the activities of others. I'm happy to see immigrants taking advantage of the welfare state, because it doesn't work and they're hastening its end.

[psycoticclown]

My grandma who immigrated here like 25 years ago with no knowledge of English has better English than most of the newer immigrants... which is sad. She's 75 and she still goes to English school 3 days a week to learn more. So I don't see the problem with people who are less than half her age learning a new language:banghead:

[ZenOps]

With the near insolvency of the Royal Bank of Scotland (Englands major bank) Knowing English will become increasingly unimportant if you are concerned about money.

French and Spanish might be better to know if you want a growth market. Just a heads up, sort of like Chinese is not really Chinese - its Mandarin or Cantonese.

Further research: California state bonds got downgraded to F2 in Feb. I didn't even know it could go below D.

[D. Dub]

Originally posted by SScott
if you're coming here for a better life how the fuck are you going to achieve that when you're not adapting to what makes our lives so great here in Canada.


Part of what makes our life so great in Canada IS the diversity and divergent perspective brought by a century and a half of immigration.

[D. Dub]

Originally posted by Weapon_R


Everything that Bandwagon Bell says is manufactured hysteria. He grasps at anything he can to make a story.

:thumbsup:

Usually ignorant, xenophobic far right wing claptrap.

[TC2002]

I think it all comes down to figuring out what Jason Kenney is trying to say exactly. That they SHOULD know the language/heritage BEFORE coming to Canada (or else they are not allowed to come in...) or is he saying that we shouldn't stand by those who come here thinking that they can just do whatever they want and neglect the language and heritage of the country? At the same time, where does Aboriginal traditions and heritage come in to all of this if we are all trying to do the colonialistic "my country" fight all over again?

What about this statement by Kenney then? "We don't want government-enforced diversity. Canada is already diverse. There's a Chinese restaurant next door, an Indian restaurant down the street, here in Deer Run. The Chinese and Indian restaurants didn't get started with a government subsidy, they did it because it's a natural part of society."

A friend of mine thinks that's a statement to "put people in their place."

[99teg]

Originally posted by masoncgy
No, don't learn French or English, don't learn about our culture, customs &amp; heritage... just come over, demand that we change to suit your needs, and hole up in your own communities...

Yeah, that's working real well!

Oh, I guess I'm a racist now. :rolleyes:

:werd:

[403Gemini]

Originally posted by Rat Fink


Not angry, just really disappointed that things are becoming like this. I love my country and feel that people coming to this country should damn well love it too.

The only other country in this world I love is Denmark. It's the only other country I would ever move to. If I did move there, you wouldn't see me pigeon holing myself in with other Canadians I find hiding out there. You also wouldn't see me requesting that they take down Danish flags. You also wouldn't see me refusing to accept Danish law as my own if I lived there. You wouldn't see me trying to gather all the other danish canadians together to try and overpower the government. You also wouldn't see me trying to force my religion, or my way of life, or laws from my home country on the Danish people.

Why do our governing bodies even entertain this kind of shit?

It's really weird, when I was in Japan for 2 weeks I tried to integrate myself as much as possible with Japanese cultures because I found it interesting. I was there with quite a few friends but we ended up spliting up and spending more time with japanese kids than we did with each other :dunno: Albeit there was a bit of a language barrier, a few of them knew a bit of english, but it was a lot of fun and I appreciated and respected their values.

If I ever moved anywhere, absolutely I would integrate myself to the countries customs - BUT I would research the country first and make sure its customs I am comfortable with, if not, I would look for another one, or simply stay where I'm at if I'm not looking at/too stubborn to change.

[D. Dub]

Originally posted by TC2002

What about this statement by Kenney then? "We don't want government-enforced diversity. Canada is already diverse. There's a Chinese restaurant next door, an Indian restaurant down the street, here in Deer Run. The Chinese and Indian restaurants didn't get started with a government subsidy, they did it because it's a natural part of society"



Kenney would prefer government enforced fascist homogeneity.

[no_joke]

Originally posted by 403Gemini


It's really weird, when I was in Japan for 2 weeks I tried to integrate myself as much as possible with Japanese cultures because I found it interesting. I was there with quite a few friends but we ended up spliting up and spending more time with japanese kids than we did with each other :dunno: Albeit there was a bit of a language barrier, a few of them knew a bit of english, but it was a lot of fun and I appreciated and respected their values.


That's great and if I were to go to Japan or any foreign country, I would totally do the same thing. Why? Well, if you think about it, we were both brought up and raised in Canada, a rich country that values education and encourages children to stay in school until at least Grade 12. From early childhood, we have been "conditioned" to learn; our schooling has given us studying skills, encouraged curiosity, and showed us how to seek out information that we don't know. Basically, we have learned how to learn. Almost all children in Canada are given every chance and opportunity to go to school.

Now think about some kid growing up in abject poverty on the other side of the world. His family never had enough to eat. He could only go to school until he was old enough to work to help support family. Now imagine that by the grace of God, he's able to come to a developed country like Canada. He hasn't been programmed to learn like us. If there's something that he doesn't know (oh say, like the English language), he doesn't instinctively make the connection that "there's something I don't understand, here's how I'm going to learn it, here's how I'm going to study it, etc."

More likely than not, those immigrants who don't learn English or French are not well educated and had a poor upbringing. That absolutely doesn't mean they're stupid or lazy. They may simply think that they won't be able to learn it anyways and if there is an established population that speaks their language, that's just another reason not to try.

What I'm trying to say is, it's not fair to judge everyone according to our values and norms.

[no_joke]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAVVFq7T--Q&feature=related

HAVVFq7T--Q

I don't know if it's actually that uncommon to come across two Caucasian dudes in Hong Kong that actually speak Cantonese; or if Chinese people just find this shit so amusing. But are there double standards for who has to learn what language? Not based on skin colour but what language they speak.

[nonlinear]

i've traveled overseas quite a bit, for work and also backpacking when i was younger. i couldn't speak any of the languages (except spanish), and had to get by using translation books or the sympathy of english-speaking natives. it absolutely sucked, and i can hardly deal with traveling without speaking the native language, let alone living there.

[dragonone]

Originally posted by no_joke
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAVVFq7T--Q&amp;feature=related

HAVVFq7T--Q

I don't know if it's actually that uncommon to come across two Caucasian dudes in Hong Kong that actually speak Cantonese; or if Chinese people just find this shit so amusing. But are there double standards for who has to learn what language? Not based on skin colour but what language they speak.

:rofl:
caucasian guys that can speak fluent chinese (and understand it) and can act are very hard to come by. The guy on the left has been around since I had recollections of watching tvb when I was a kid. The guy on the right is new, mostly made famous by the long office-comedy series that ended a while ago.

that argument wouldn't hold because a lot more of us chose to come here, a lot less choose to go there. i.e. white guy going to HK. No one there would expect the white guy to speak chinese, not because they're nice, but because it's 1 in thousands at most. If they had a minority population of other ethnic groups as big as the ones here, it would be this thread in another language all over again.

come to think of it, ppl there have better things to do like work OT everyday instead of complaining about ppl not speaking some language. They simply won't talk to you if you don't speak it lol. I encourage the same behaviour here. Next time some frantic woman talks to you about god knows what just tell them to fuck themselves:english: I meant that sarcastically btw.

[cloud7]

This is really a non-issue. Most immigrants who are readying themselves for the immigration exam know more about Canadian history/values than Canadians born and raised in Canada. And knowing basic English or French should be a no-brainer for most immigrants either.

[badatusrnames]

Originally posted by cloud7
And knowing basic English or French should be a no-brainer for most immigrants either.

:facepalm: well you'd think so, but this isn't always the case... people get by never learning English by sequestering themselves among their fellow countrymen an never integrating into wider society.

[TC2002]

Originally posted by no_joke


That's great and if I were to go to Japan or any foreign country, I would totally do the same thing. Why? Well, if you think about it, we were both brought up and raised in Canada, a rich country that values education and encourages children to stay in school until at least Grade 12. From early childhood, we have been &quot;conditioned&quot; to learn; our schooling has given us studying skills, encouraged curiosity, and showed us how to seek out information that we don't know. Basically, we have learned how to learn. Almost all children in Canada are given every chance and opportunity to go to school.

Now think about some kid growing up in abject poverty on the other side of the world. His family never had enough to eat. He could only go to school until he was old enough to work to help support family. Now imagine that by the grace of God, he's able to come to a developed country like Canada. He hasn't been programmed to learn like us. If there's something that he doesn't know (oh say, like the English language), he doesn't instinctively make the connection that &quot;there's something I don't understand, here's how I'm going to learn it, here's how I'm going to study it, etc.&quot;

More likely than not, those immigrants who don't learn English or French are not well educated and had a poor upbringing. That absolutely doesn't mean they're stupid or lazy. They may simply think that they won't be able to learn it anyways and if there is an established population that speaks their language, that's just another reason not to try.

What I'm trying to say is, it's not fair to judge everyone according to our values and norms.


:werd:

The problem is that there ARE immigrants who come and totally take advantage of their citizenship and expect everyone (and our laws) to change. I mean, there have been plenty of threads and discussion here on Beyond alone about how people think that they can use the "religion" card to the extent that the law allows. That's not fair for Canadians either.

I think the government should re-word their idea to allow those who fall into the category that you mentioned get the chance to learn and adapt. while minimizing those who ruin it for everybody else.

[Supa Dexta]

Wanna know where everyone who doesn't speak english hangs out? Check the alberta heath office downtown.. :rofl: