8 second power with Ebay Turbos...

[Toma]

Twin Ebay GT45's, Twin XSpower Water to Air intercoolers...

All built by the owner, right down to the Barry Grant Blow Through Carb...

This thing sounded WICKED!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6VdAHJFh3Y

[403ep3]

wow scary!!

[Mr_ET]

the question is not if these parts can make power or not it's how long before stuff breaks.

impressive none the less!

[Revhard]

I have been involved on a few parts with this gorgeous car.
It has not been completely bulletproof, but has done alot better than I thought possible.
Mike is a great guy too. Love the car.

[EFHatch]

Wow, that's a lot of air.


impressive looking build.

[R-Audi]

There have been a few Audi tuners using the ebay Chinese K04 turbos, and the only problem thus far is a little boost creeep.. not bad for 1/2 price!!

[dj_honda]

Maybe its just me, but with the Chinese stuff, its more than the price, its the principle. Someone out there, put in the research, development, engineering to make the product, and someone else comes by and just knocks it off because of lax copyright and intellectual property enforcement in a country, and takes all that away from them and undercuts them by a lot. I'd rather buy it from the people who know wtf they are doing.

I also hate how they try to make their parts look exactly the same down to the name inscribed by them. I bought a Walbro pump for my civic and it said walbro on it but it blew. When I looked it up I found out I had been sold a chinese replica....I was just happy it didnt blow while i was in boost.

Anyways, to each their own

[tentacles]

A COPYRIGHT is something you get with a movie or a book i.e. the rights to make and sell copies of. Turbochargers don't have copyrights.

[Idratherbsidewayz]

Originally posted by tentacles
A COPYRIGHT is something you get with a movie or a book i.e. the rights to make and sell copies of. Turbochargers don't have copyrights.

Copyrights, patents... Lets not argue over semantics.

I would never buy from China because of the inconsistency in the materials. Chinese steel is inconsistent because of the dirty practices and brute force methodology that they use. One man could have an 8 second beast while another blows bits of melted metal through his intake.

Also, what dj_honda said.

[tentacles]

Copyrights, patents... Lets not argue over semantics.

I don't see how any of those would apply. Who owns the patent on a turbocharger?


melted metal through his intake.

How is that even physically possible?

[theken]

That's impressive

[Idratherbsidewayz]

Originally posted by tentacles
I don't see how any of those would apply. Who owns the patent on a turbocharger?

Patents usually apply to mechanical things. Thats all I was saying.

A turbo isn't just cast in one piece btw. Its composed of many internal components each designed by some engineer. These drawings and ideas are the intellectual property of this engineer or his company. Its unethical to come in and steal those designs, even if they weren't patented.


Originally posted by tentacles
How is that even physically possible?

If the metal has a lower melting temperature than was designed for because of manufacturing issues, it will melt and fall apart. Those rotors inside the turbo spin at around 100,000 RPM. This rotating force is enough to expand a structurally weakened metal (like one that has heated past its design specs). Imagine those blades expanding and hitting the edge of the inside of the turbo. Little pieces would then be sent rocketing through the intake system and who knows how far in they would go.

[tentacles]

A turbo isn't just cast in one piece btw. Its composed of many internal components each designed by some engineer. These drawings and ideas are the intellectual property of this engineer or his company. Its unethical to come in and steal those designs, even if they weren't patented.

So you think because you design and build a part in a particular way, no one else can design and build the same part? It doesn't work like that.


This rotating force is enough to expand a structurally weakened metal (like one that has heated past its design specs). Imagine those blades expanding and hitting the edge of the inside of the turbo.

Really? You've seen an impeller blade melt?

EDIT: I'm not calling you out or anything, I'm just not seeing how the cold side of a turbo would melt.

[Idratherbsidewayz]

Originally posted by tentacles


So you think because you design and build a part in a particular way, no one else can design and build the same part? It doesn't work like that.



Really? You've seen an impeller blade melt?

EDIT: I'm not calling you out or anything, I'm just not seeing how the cold side of a turbo would melt.

This is more off-topic, but what the chinese are doing with their knockoff pieces isn't "designing and building the same part". They're taking the measurements and reverse-engineering the pieces.

The fact that its a cold side, doesn't mean it's cold. There's still heat transferring from the other side unless its perfectly insulated. Also, the air friction from the blade spinning causes heat.

My point is that the turbo was designed with certain thicknesses and materials to withstand the heats that are present in a turbo. If a knockoff manufacturer just reverse engineers these drawings and puts shitty material (Chinese Steel) in, odds are it will break.

[DonJuan]

Nice find Toma. Should we be expecting a Ebay turbo build soon?

As to the china manufacturing discussion; everyone has ebay on their their car; EVERYONE. The amount of ebay shit varies from car to car, my ebay penny pinching is limited to stuff that hopefully wont shatter and go into the engine. Those who have bigger balls and less bankroll have more and more ebay.

[Toma]

Originally posted by DonJuan
Nice find Toma. Should we be expecting a Ebay turbo build soon?


LOL... I made the video at my shop ;)

[tentacles]

This is more off-topic, but what the chinese are doing with their knockoff pieces isn't "designing and building the same part". They're taking the measurements and reverse-engineering the pieces.


Is it illegal for me to build a shelf in my backyard that looks exactly like the one they sell at Ikea? Lots of companies make lots of parts that look identical. I bet a Gates timing belt looks exactly like a Dayco timing belt for the same engine, is one a ripoff of another? Is one company bad or doing something illegal? Of course not. Your position makes no sense.

What IS illegal is making a counterfeit item and then telling the buyer that it's real. That's misrepresentation/fraud, of course, like the example of the Walbro fuel pump. But again, making a fuel pump that looks like a Walbro isn't illegal, selling it to someone and telling them that it's a real Walbro is.



My point is that the turbo was designed with certain thicknesses and materials to withstand the heats that are present in a turbo. If a knockoff manufacturer just reverse engineers these drawings and puts shitty material in, odds are it will break.

Well, then you should have said that instead of saying melted metal will go into the intake, which unless you've actually seen it seems very unlikely to me.

[Toma]

Chinese discussion...

Sorry to break it to you, but its the US and their ever increasing desire for more profits that we have 'Chinese' everything.

Even "brand name" companies have shit made wherever is cheapest. Whether China, Taiwain, Russia, India, Malaysia..whatever.

A TON of car stuff is made there, and simply repacked or assembled here... Cranks, Pistons, rods, wheels, turbos, manifolds etc etc. Some it maybe finish machined here, some is not. And even more OEM... brake pads, rotors, calipers, starters, U joints, CV joints etc etc...

Lets not get into electronics and car audio!

As a company or retailer, you simply place your order, tell them what you want to pay, and they adjust quality. For years, we have been sold $100 shoes, that cost less than $1 to make.

Just last night, I assembled a fancy schmancy BRAND NAME aluminum bracket kit for power steering/alternator etc... two of the bolts, the thread pitch was just a SMIDGE out and needed to be re-cut...

Nothing new, its capitalism. Make it jsut as good as it needs be for what you do with it.


They Ebay turbos have a no greater failure rate than "brand name" stuff that I have seen over the last 10 years. The 'domestic' built stuff is getting worse, the Chinese stuff is getting better.

[tentacles]

Chinese discussion...

Heh, what I'm getting at is that it has nothing to do with China. I could start a shop here in Canada making those turbos - MOST of the Canadian economy is basically a bunch of little companies you've never heard of in Ontario making mostly identical window regulators and wiper motors for GM/Chrysler/Toyota. Yet people here think that's illegal or something.

[dj_honda]

Like I said, its the principle. I have respect for the companies who take something from concept, to design to prototyping etc. all the way through the engineering process to build the product. THey created the product. What the Chinese do is reverse engineer the final product to replicate it....which sometimes works and sometimes doesn't. I don't think you can really use something as simple as a shelf as an example...

There is a lot more to this anyways. It comes down to this, if you support the industry or not. China builds these turbos/turbo kits, yet do they put them on their own cars over there? Do they race the cars? Do they know what to tweak to make them better? Do the ebay china turbo manufacturers support any racers out here? What do the Chinese manufacturers do to advance the technology of turbochargers? Do they come out with innovative new designs, or just knock off existing technology? How does that advance anything?

By supporting those turbo manufacturers, you are taking away money from the people who are actually attempting to create new innovative products...

Anyways in the end its your own money and you can spend it on whatever you want. :burnout:

[tentacles]

Like I said, its the principle. I have respect for the companies who take something from concept, to design to prototyping etc. all the way through the engineering process to build the product. THey created the product. What the Chinese do is reverse engineer the final product to replicate it....which sometimes works and sometimes doesn't. I don't think you can really use something as simple as a shelf as an example...

What principle? Did Borg Warner or Mitsubishi invent the turbocharger? Their business is supplying parts to a spec, just like anyone else. Companies in developed countries supply high end stuff because high end stuff is capital intensive to develop and manufacture. Companies in poor countries don't have much capital so they make it up with labour. That's just the way the world works. You could say that by buying more from Chinese mfgers, I'm providing them with the capital needed to eventually start developing their own products and force other companies to keep up. Not that I or any other customer would actually give a shit.





There is a lot more to this anyways. It comes down to this, if you support the industry or not. China builds these turbos/turbo kits, yet do they put them on their own cars over there? Do they race the cars? Do they know what to tweak to make them better? Do the ebay china turbo manufacturers support any racers out here? What do the Chinese manufacturers do to advance the technology of turbochargers? Do they come out with innovative new designs, or just knock off existing technology? How does that advance anything?

1) Just like Hyundai 10 years ago, most cars made by Chinese companies use some version of the 4G63 engine that they bought from Mitsubishi for cheap because Mitsubishi is always hard up for cash and will sell anything to anyone, so yeah, actually they probably do use those turbos.

2) Who is "they"? Most cars made in China are made by foreign car companies. The biggest carmaker in China is VW/Audi and the best selling cars are B2 Passats and old Suzuki Kei-cars built either under license or by VW themselves. You talk about "them" like China is one huge cheap turbo factory or something. Does Factory X in China "support racing"? Well the division of Delphi that makes the magnetic suspension for Ferrari and Corvettes just got bought by a Chinese company, does that count? You see how it's a meaningless question.

[78si]

Originally posted by Toma
Twin Ebay GT45's, Twin XSpower Water to Air intercoolers...

All built by the owner, right down to the Barry Grant Blow Through Carb...

This thing sounded WICKED!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6VdAHJFh3Y

Is this Mike the hoist repair guy?

[turbo minivan]

hey, that guy lives by my parents place! crazy car! if i remember right he did easy low 11s last season, the 1 time i saw him at the track.
nice car too! too bad its always in his garage with the door closed! id drive the crap out of it if it were mine!:D

[turbo minivan]

Originally posted by Idratherbsidewayz


Copyrights, patents... Lets not argue over semantics.

I would never buy from China because of the inconsistency in the materials. Chinese steel is inconsistent because of the dirty practices and brute force methodology that they use. One man could have an 8 second beast while another blows bits of melted metal through his intake.

Also, what dj_honda said.
maby that guy needs an intercooler to keep the molten chunks less "molten" wile making there way to the intake.:D
ive sprayed chunks of a few garrett compressors through my pipes before. :thumbsup:

[Sebasshole]

So long story short. Everyone is trying to profit on the product they sell, so Chinese components are becoming more and more common in everything we use. So None the less, a garret could possibly be using the same material as an eBay turbo only differenence being the engineering might be better making the turbo better. (If the engineering is better), then again if they reverse engineered the design correctly then the turbo should be of the same quality. Correct me if I am wrong. As from personal experience. Iv had a couple garret turbochargers on my old Honda and every single one of them have had there problems. If I would have known that i was going to use 3 garret turbo’s on my Honda I would have saved my money and bought the eBay turbo to start with.

[Toma]

Originally posted by 78si


Is this Mike the hoist repair guy? :thumbsup:

[DonJuan]

Originally posted by Toma
Chinese discussion...

They Ebay turbos have a no greater failure rate than "brand name" stuff that I have seen over the last 10 years. The 'domestic' built stuff is getting worse, the Chinese stuff is getting better.

So you are saying i spent $1600 on a turbo that is no more reliable than the ebay counterpart?
God dammit.... :facepalm: