Utility Bicycling Thread

[flipstah]

Hey everyone! This is probably going to be a needle in a haystack but who here commutes by bike to work/school etc.?

Just curious as to what your experiences are and what the City could do to improve and promote bike commuting.

On my first day out, I learned that you need gloves when you bike from Taradale to Westwinds at 6AM and people give you the weirdest looks when you have a full-face helmet on and a folding mountain bike. :rofl:

Also, what routes do you take to get around Calgary as I am still unfamiliar with the bike paths.

Thanks and drive safe!

[syeve]

I use to look on here to check the path system, its a big one

http://www.calgary.ca/docgallery/BU/engineering_services/emaps/bicycle_pathways_map.pdf

[D'z Nutz]

Originally posted by flipstah
On my first day out, I learned that you need gloves when you bike from Taradale to Westwinds at 6AM and people give you the weirdest looks when you have a full-face helmet on and a folding mountain bike. :rofl:

Haha, when I started biking back in March, I also learned the hard way how important those gloves were! Unfortunately I think I'm going to have to wear them less because my arms are starting to get darker than my hands :rofl:

[D. Dub]

I would love to bicycle commute -- however Calgary city planners have forced me..... just like most of the population..... to live so far out in the burbs I need a helicopter -- not a bicycle.

[98type_r]

You commute on with a full face helmet? No offense, but you'd be getting weird looks from me too...

I commute to work, I live in Panorama Hills and work downtown, so depending on the route I take, it's anywhere from 13-19km. I think on average, it takes me the same amount of time to ride my bike as taking the bus.

Commuting in this city is pretty dangerous so I try to stay off the roads as much as possible. I've been on the pathway beside memorial minding my own business and I've had some redneck lean out of his window yelling something at me.

[flipstah]

Originally posted by 98type_r
You commute on with a full face helmet? No offense, but you'd be getting weird looks from me too...


I have to because I can't risk another injury to my jaw. It's all good though. I'm an attention whore.

:rofl:

[swak]

Originally posted by 98type_r


Commuting in this city is pretty dangerous so I try to stay off the roads as much as possible. I've been on the pathway beside memorial minding my own business and I've had some redneck lean out of his window yelling something at me.

Exactly...
I was riding down the side of the highway on old banff coach road, and had some redneck lay on his horn as he passed me.
I was in no way interfering with him... People are idiots.

Cycling in calgary is dangerous.. Drivers on cell phones that dont see you, and cut you off, and million dollar man trying to see how close he can drive to you without hitting you.

[flipstah]

Originally posted by swak

Cycling in calgary is dangerous.. Drivers on cell phones that dont see you, and cut you off, and million dollar man trying to see how close he can drive to you without hitting you.

It is also becoming discouraging to bike in Calgary. Today, I got kicked out of the C-Train because of rush hour, folding bike or not.

I biked from Westwinds to Whitehorn to find out that 72/73 doesn't have any bike racks to accommodate me and will not entertain my folding bike.

I bought that bike in order to beat the rush hour because it's so compact but to no avail. It seems like the drivers are the only ones that have the problem. I took the bike in during Friday rush hour and the Peace Officers didn't mind and the cops on the train today thought it was neat.

It is becoming very discouraging and I think I will write an email to get the rules reviewed and maybe revised to let folding bikes be an exception or at least have more bike racks installed on buses.

It's just too dangerous for me to drive from my house to the campus because of speeders and texters. I refuse to drive that far and I'm trying my best to do my part in sustainability but so far, I'm getting signs to drive me car and just pedal to the metal.

[Grogador]

http://www.calgarytransit.com/html/bikes_on_board.html

[flipstah]

Originally posted by Grogador
http://www.calgarytransit.com/html/bikes_on_board.html

Yup, should've read the rules beforehand but you live and you learn.

I think I'll have to speak to a representative because the Trip Planner is pulling off nothing.

EDIT: I checked all the bus routes that have bike racks and they're all situated in the South. There's no route that has dedicated racks for the NE.

LAME.

[urban.one]

Im not sure how small or big your bike is and how small it compacts when its folded but you could try to get cover/bag made for it with a strap or straps to carry it over your shoulder.

[ZorroAMG]

Totally a great call! If nobody knows it's a bike, no one can say anything.

Edit: http://www.chwhite.btinternet.co.uk/html/folding_bike_bags.html

[flipstah]

Originally posted by urban.one
Im not sure how small or big your bike is and how small it compacts when its folded but you could try to get cover/bag made for it with a strap or straps to carry it over your shoulder.


Originally posted by ZorroAMG
Totally a great call! If nobody knows it's a bike, no one can say anything.

Edit: http://www.chwhite.btinternet.co.uk/html/folding_bike_bags.html

Haha good call! That's what my co-worker suggested after I got booted off this morning. I will check out this El Boso bag and see where it goes from there! :thumbsup:

The bike is 26 incher but it folds in half. (34 x 94 x 79 cm to be exact)

http://www.dahon.com/us/jack.htm

[flipstah]

Today was the first, and probably the last time I'll ever go from the University to my house solely on bike.

I left the office at 4 and got to my house at 6ish. So I spent two hours biking ~20-25km. Mostly because I went around instead of hitting the high-density highways (fuckin' speeders) and it was mostly uphill.

Man, oh man it was fucking dangerous. I went in the middle island of the 64th St. Bridge and people just kept looking at me while they were stuck during rush hour. It was even harder because of crosswinds.

It was hella fun though but as fun as it was, Calgary's bike path system is totally broken and is missing some vital parts. It's a shame because it's totally doable.

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n205/dj_flipster/Map.jpg
It's the route that I took today. Man it was brutal.

[D'z Nutz]

Ah, that sucks. I'm gonna try that route we were talking about earlier when I get a chance. Hopefully it's better (and safer).

[flipstah]

Originally posted by D'z Nutz
Ah, that sucks. I'm gonna try that route we were talking about earlier when I get a chance. Hopefully it's better (and safer).

I think when the weather's more calm, it'd be a way better ride. Let me know how that one goes! I wanna try the Memorial route.

[D'z Nutz]

Originally posted by flipstah
Let me know how that one goes! I wanna try the Memorial route.

Okay, so I finally tried it out (just got back) and it's a good ride!!

From the bridge by the Calgary Sun building, just stay straight on the path and don't turn off anywhere (keep left on the first fork, and go straight when you see the "Zoo on the right" sign) and you'll end up on the path behind the zoo which eventually leads onto memorial. I just wanted to see if I could get downtown from there and it's a pretty decent path. Pretty refreshing riding along the bow river actually.

From Sunridge Mall to Eau Claire, it took about 30 minutes. The road from Sunridge to the Calgary Sun (http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=51.0753,-113.987317&daddr=11+St+NE&hl=en&geocode=%3BFZhdCwMdQxU0-Q&mra=dme&mrcr=0&mrsp=0&sz=15&dirflg=w&sll=51.075812,-114.004784&sspn=0.01936,0.05579&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=15) wasn't a really high traffic road after you passed Barlow.

I think I'll do this route a couple more times before I make an attempt to go all the way to the university.

The hotties were out in full force at Eau Claire/Prince's Island today :hitit:

[flipstah]

Originally posted by D'z Nutz


Okay, so I finally tried it out (just got back) and it's a good ride!!

From the bridge by the Calgary Sun building, just stay straight on the path and don't turn off anywhere (keep left on the first fork, and go straight when you see the "Zoo on the right" sign) and you'll end up on the path behind the zoo which eventually leads onto memorial. I just wanted to see if I could get downtown from there and it's a pretty decent path. Pretty refreshing riding along the bow river actually.

From Sunridge Mall to Eau Claire, it took about 30 minutes. The road from Sunridge to the Calgary Sun (http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=51.0753,-113.987317&daddr=11+St+NE&hl=en&geocode=%3BFZhdCwMdQxU0-Q&mra=dme&mrcr=0&mrsp=0&sz=15&dirflg=w&sll=51.075812,-114.004784&sspn=0.01936,0.05579&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=15) wasn't a really high traffic road after you passed Barlow.

I think I'll do this route a couple more times before I make an attempt to go all the way to the university.

The hotties were out in full force at Eau Claire/Prince's Island today :hitit:

I biked from the University to the Zoo via the Bow and man, it was hella fun! So many hot Yoga chicks at the park... :hitit:

However, I still refuse to solely bike from the NE to the University because after the bridge near the Calgary Sun, the bike paths are cracked and are spread out in patches, making the whole trek dangerous (at least, I think so.)

[D'z Nutz]

Originally posted by flipstah


I biked from the University to the Zoo via the Bow and man, it was hella fun! So many hot Yoga chicks at the park... :hitit:

However, I still refuse to solely bike from the NE to the University because after the bridge near the Calgary Sun, the bike paths are cracked and are spread out in patches, making the whole trek dangerous (at least, I think so.)

haha, seriously? The path isn't that bad, IMO. But then again, I'm used to riding through ghetto ass neighborhoods as part of my regular trek so the path seems like a luxury cruising lane by comparison :rofl:

Hell, I'm going for another ride on that path before dinner :thumbsup:

[flipstah]

Originally posted by D'z Nutz


haha, seriously? The path isn't that bad, IMO. But then again, I'm used to riding through ghetto ass neighborhoods as part of my regular trek so the path seems like a luxury cruising lane by comparison :rofl:

Hell, I'm going for another ride on that path before dinner :thumbsup:

This is why growing up spoiled sucks. Used to paved lanes and stuff... Can't go back to potholes. :rofl:

But seriously, the Bow River pathway is SO nice. I saw a park that I've never seen before and it was so nice and serene. I wish I lived in downtown....

[MikeHL]

I commute to school (UofC) from the NE (Temple). I find the roads are ok, I mainly just stick to the roads and have to fight it out with the cars sometimes.

There are some assholes out there (mainly truck and SUV drivers :dunno: ) but the majority of the drivers just want to get around you and get on their way.

[BumbleBeeCivic]

Originally posted by flipstah




Haha good call! That's what my co-worker suggested after I got booted off this morning. I will check out this El Boso bag and see where it goes from there! :thumbsup:

The bike is 26 incher but it folds in half. (34 x 94 x 79 cm to be exact)

http://www.dahon.com/us/jack.htm

the Army Navy store sells an oversized hockey bag for cheap, maybe $15.

best of luck to you.

[flipstah]

Originally posted by BumbleBeeCivic


the Army Navy store sells an oversized hockey bag for cheap, maybe $15.

best of luck to you.

Thanks for the heads up! I'll check 'em out when I can.

[scary_perry]

I get to pass through Fish Creek on the way to work but only for a bit.

Our new office in Quarry Park = 15 km each way in the park (+ 5 km on road) during my commute.

[scary_perry]

Originally posted by flipstah


Thanks for the heads up! I'll check 'em out when I can.

Do you have a Dahon? I've read that stuffing one in a shoulder bag gets transit peeps off you bike. A hockey bag is a good idea.

I travel a lot and was thinking of getting one. You can modify a Samsonite clam case to fit the bikes so you can check it on a plane like normal luggage.

[flipstah]

Originally posted by scary_perry


Do you have a Dahon? I've read that stuffing one in a shoulder bag gets transit peeps off you bike. A hockey bag is a good idea.

I travel a lot and was thinking of getting one. You can modify a Samsonite clam case to fit the bikes so you can check it on a plane like normal luggage.

I have a Dahon Jack which is the full sized ones. The small wheeled ones are super small and can fit in an IKEA bag! :eek:

I'm still searching for the bag as those hockey bags are too slender to fit mine.

[scary_perry]

I have a Brodie Dynamo that I use to commute.

But I think I would rather have a fast Cross bike so I am going to sell the well-used Brodie.

[no_joke]

^^So how was the Dahon Jack over the summer time? Any luck with the bag and getting it on to a bus? Just bumped this thread because MEC sells a folding bike now but it's $800 smackers. As for no bikes on board a bus- I understand for a full-size bike but one that folds up should be fine. No more obstructive than a stroller or eight bags of groceries. Will Calgary ever get out of the 1960s? :banghead:

[flipstah]

Originally posted by no_joke
^^So how was the Dahon Jack over the summer time? Any luck with the bag and getting it on to a bus? Just bumped this thread because MEC sells a folding bike now but it's $800 smackers. As for no bikes on board a bus- I understand for a full-size bike but one that folds up should be fine. No more obstructive than a stroller or eight bags of groceries. Will Calgary ever get out of the 1960s? :banghead:

No. As expected, Calgary Transit is still stuck in the past and when I needed to, the bus driver wouldn't let me in, even when it was folded.

The bag was a no-go because the handlebars still stick out and I have to manually unscrew them in order to properly fit in the bag (it's a full-size folder so the handlebar doesn't fold.)

I still love it though because on trips, it fits just fine in the trunk. :thumbsup: And it was comfortable to ride but I think I'm gonna upgrade the front gears so that it's a 21-speeder instead of a 7-speeder.

Is the MEC folder a full-size or one of those small-wheeled ones? I checked their site and couldn't find it but if it's a small-wheeled one, $800 is pretty steep.

[no_joke]

MEC link (http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524442630199&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302886468&bmUID=1257454339032)

20 in wheels so pretty dinky. Made by Dahon though. I get all my tools, tubes, etc from MEC because they're the cheapest and decent quality so I figured their bikes would be decent and cheap... but their bikes are pricey IMO.

[flipstah]

Does anybody know a custom bag maker? So that if I bring my bike in, the maker can create a nylon/some other tough fabric bag to quickly place my bike in?

New technology too from Dahon:

http://www.dahon.com/technology/dahon-axis-stem

It turns your handlebar 90 degrees so that it's streamlined! I NEED ONE! :thumbsup:

[flipstah]

Great news! Folding bikes are now allowed in Calgary Transit!

http://www.metronews.ca/calgary/local/article/878781--folding-bikes-to-be-allowed-on-transit

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Khyron]

As it should be - not much diff than a stroller.

My commute is 30km each way - made it to work in 53 mins (west wind!)

Home was wind and a bit of hail, but still 1:10.

[megavolt]

Been commuting to work for almost a year now - took the train downtown for a few months before buying a bike.

18km each way, depending on the wind it's 35-45min.

In the winter I was going halfway - drive to the park-n-ride across from Fox Hollow and ride from there. I tell ya winter riding is cool (pun intended).

About a month ago I found out there were showers in my company's other building so now I get a shower after my morning ride, much better than toweling down in the washroom.

Starting to think I should have bought a more expensive bike... I think this one's about had it - even with regular maintenance.

[phreezee]

25-26km commute to downtown.

Personal Bests:

00:41:02 minutes to work 36.2km/h avg

00:51:42 minutes to home 29.9km/h avg elevation gain 227m

[flipstah]

Originally posted by megavolt
Been commuting to work for almost a year now - took the train downtown for a few months before buying a bike.

18km each way, depending on the wind it's 35-45min.

In the winter I was going halfway - drive to the park-n-ride across from Fox Hollow and ride from there. I tell ya winter riding is cool (pun intended).

About a month ago I found out there were showers in my company's other building so now I get a shower after my morning ride, much better than toweling down in the washroom.

Starting to think I should have bought a more expensive bike... I think this one's about had it - even with regular maintenance.

Bump because I might steal your idea of going halfway... Unless someone knows a safe way to get to downtown from.the NE (redundant question, yes)

Im going to be based in downtown Calgary now and need to get rid of the site weight lol.

[msommers]

Where are you coming from in the NE?

[flipstah]

Originally posted by msommers
Where are you coming from in the NE?

Taradale

[msommers]

Holy crap. Where roughly in downtown?

[flipstah]

Originally posted by msommers
Holy crap. Where roughly in downtown?

Near the Calgary Tower. :-(

[msommers]

Hmm once you get to my part of the hood by the zoo you're golden, until then it's kind of iffy as I don't know the roads that well. But according to google, most of these are trails and minimal on-road cycling.

Link (http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Taradale,+Calgary,+AB,+Canada&daddr=51.08674,-113.93475+to:51.0751706,-113.9490104+to:51.07814,-113.968992+to:Centre+St+SW&hl=en&sll=51.071444,-113.9538&sspn=0.041258,0.125484&geocode=FaMCDAMdOXY1-SnJFZjjCmNxUzEE_0SaUtBymw%3BFZSFCwMdYn41-SnNr4sKW2NxUzFtT9NyQw9s3w%3BFWJYCwMdrkY1-SkJxwGZrmRxUzEtvAw5GHSllw%3BFfxjCwMdoPg0-SknhXGiuWRxUzHAMbVYkKLolA%3BFQHhCgMdLokz-Q&dirflg=b&doflg=ptm&mra=dvme&mrsp=3&sz=14&via=1,2,3&t=m&z=14&lci=bike)

I guess it depends on your comfort level on the road, density of traffic on those roads and most importantly, the density of old asian women drivers :angel:

I can confirm the pathway from Sunridge to downtown is perfect. I'll also throw out there that from Mayland Heights to Centre St. might be worthwhile to stay on 8th ave. Lots of cyclists during the rush hour and people are used to it. Going to work you could bomb down the hill into bridgeland and cut over that way too or skip the big hill getting onto 8th ave into renfrew and stay on the nose creek trail.

I should bike up to Taradale next week and check it out.

[flipstah]

haha thanks for the help! Ill have to do my research to find a good route.

Im also canvassing to change my 7-speeder into a 21-speed and possibly lighter wheels. Mostly the gear upgrade and clipless pedals are top two on my list for downtown commuting

[msommers]

How long is it on transit? Seemed like one bus ride and you're on the train. Plus that far out of DT you'll get a seat!

[flipstah]

Originally posted by msommers
How long is it on transit? Seemed like one bus ride and you're on the train. Plus that far out of DT you'll get a seat!

Itll be am hour by transit. Im merely doing it for the exercise. Beats going to the gym and hopping on the bike for an hour lol.

[megavolt]

I commute from Temple every day.

But if you want to start halfway you can park down by the Sun building on the road or at the park n bike at the ball diamonds near there.

[flipstah]

Originally posted by megavolt
I commute from Temple every day.

But if you want to start halfway you can park down by the Sun building on the road or at the park n bike at the ball diamonds near there.

Can you publish your route, please? I'm very interested to know how to get to downtown safely.

Winter will be all transit.

[megavolt]

Well there are parts that you can't avoid being on the roads... but you can choose two lane or less used roads to lessen the risk.

I'll throw up a route in a few minutes but in case you didn't know all of the bike paths/routes are in google maps. Just enable the bicycling layer.

Oh and you can choose direction by bicycle too... might help you get an idea of a good route.

Edit: there are ways purly on the paths but they add quite a bit of distance (going around sunridge mall and the bestbuy/lowes).

Here's an idea (http://goo.gl/maps/Q6SZ)

Here's the kind of route I take (http://goo.gl/maps/ysVU)

The first few rides are definately pathfinding rides... plan some extra time. Might want to take a ride on the weekend to do this.

[D'z Nutz]

Originally posted by flipstah
Can you publish your route, please? I'm very interested to know how to get to downtown safely.

When I lived in the NE, my route was (from the west end of Sunridge):
- west on Sunridge blvd/27 ave until the end
- left on 12th street
- right back onto 11th street
- cross the bridge over Deerfoot and just head towards downtown on the bike path

[flipstah]

I'll have to plan this during the weekend and figure out a route. I'm back in Calgary next week. :)

EDIT: 66 minute ride is a grueler! Gonna need more gears lol.

https://maps.google.ca/maps?saddr=Bishop+McNally+High+School,+Calgary,+AB&daddr=Calgary+Tower,+101+9+Avenue+Southwest,+Calgary,+AB&hl=en&ll=51.073978,-114.010277&spn=0.111093,0.3368&sll=51.07402,-114.01014&sspn=0.111093,0.3368&geocode=FezHCwMd9jA1-SFlZQO_HsLIuym1j1yAfGNxUzFlZQO_HsLIuw%3BFXPgCgMd-Ygz-SGBl3s3ByRZ8SknMmyL_W9xUzGBl3s3ByRZ8Q&oq=Calgary+Tower&t=h&dirflg=b&mra=ls&z=12&lci=bike

[megavolt]

Safer that way so that half your mind isn't worried about getting to work on time.

[flipstah]

Originally posted by megavolt
Safer that way so that half your mind isn't worried about getting to work on time.

For sure, I'll give myself a cushion of time as contingency. Let's see where this will take me haha.

[flipstah]

BUMP!

Some things I want to add for the long journey:

- Better saddle
- Dynamo generator to power lights/charge electronics

Any recommendations for those?

Also, is it feasible to just buy an el cheapo MTB somewhere and gut the parts for it? I just want to upgrade the front gears so that it has 3 gears instead of the 1 that I have right now.

[benyl]

Back pack or paniers?

I am thinking about getting a rack on the back.

[msommers]

If you decide backpack, this (http://www.mec.ca/AST/ShopMEC/MemberPicks/Packs/PRD~5010-212/deuter-race-exp-air-daypack.jsp) Deuter bag is amazing. No sweaty back and carries enough + built in rain cover + net for securing your helmet + platypus ready (doubt you'll need that for commuting).

What needed to be fixed on your bike, Benyl?

[benyl]

haha, I didn't even ask Jay what he did. I bet he just opened it up and cleaned it out.

The shifter wasn't allowing me to get back into the granny gear on the rear derailer.

[flipstah]

BUMP from the dead.

Spring is here and I'll be riding out. Bike still needs maintenance but she should be good by May. Got the Stow Bag I've been looking for so I can take transit, hassle-free!

What are people's thoughts on combining transit and biking? For me, the NE is just too tricky (dangerous drivers) to navigate around so I was planning the following:

Bike from home to Westwinds
Get off at Calgary Zoo
Bike to work
Reverse layout home

[Moonracer]

There's gotta be some quieter roads you can travel on even from the NE lol I wouldn't go near transit.

[flipstah]

Originally posted by Moonracer
There's gotta be some quieter roads you can travel on even from the NE lol I wouldn't go near transit.

I'm game but the route Google is giving me is telling me to go through industrial areas. Yikes. :rofl:

[ZZT23]

I go from Coventry Hills to Airport at the McCall Landing area.
I never timed my trip but my fastest was about 40 minutes.

Harvest Hills Blvd southbound - Center Street - 64 Ave - Deerfoot Mall - 11st - Canada Post office - the parking lot next to the runway - McKnight and turn into McCall Way.

I wish they start putting some bike paths to connect the broken pieces in the NE. There are absolutely no accommodation for cyclists or even pedestrians in that area between Deerfoot and Barlow. Going offroad on McKnight behind the runway sure gets muddy!

Or does anyone know of any better ways? I know Metis Tr is getting worked on and 96 Ave will have bike paths but not sure if they connect all the way through the airport area where old Barlow Tr was or if there will be any paths on Country Hills.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b168/kaho4g94/map.jpg

[BigDL]

Instead of going straight and climbing the hill to go up Center St and be forced to deal with lights, use the bike path that follows nose creek. So at Beddington tr use the path and then reconnect back to your existing route at 64th.

You should be able to save a bunch of time.

Route is mostly flat, 1 small up hill at the start when you go under Harvest Hills Blvd, 1 downhill when you go towards Deerfoot, 1 uphill to get to 64th.

Purple Path
http://www.derrickleung.ca/Images/map.jpg

Going home on a nice day you said that you have to go off road on your current route, so I suggest the teal route. The Coventry hills part I am not as familiar but I think there is also a path for a small section after you cross country hills blvd.

Anyways, you follow the bike path (straight part of the purple route) Then where it turns teal, there is a dirt path trail that climbs a small little hill. If you follow that path it will eventually lead you to 96th ave Where you can easily go into harvest hills and use Harvest Hills Dr to get you towards coventry.

Different Options for going home as can see by the picture.

The Teal path that spits with the red path is a trail though grassy area. It is reliable and has been there for a long time.

The red path is mostly gravel, however with the work on 96th ave I am not sure what the end of the Red Path is like at the moment. I haven't ridden that part since August or so of last year, it may have changed. Hopefully it will be all cleaned up and its easy to get to 96th but last year it was a good gravel tiny hill that you had to go down before crossing 96th.

Anyways the teal root once you hit Harvest Hills Drive will take you down a good downhill that you can get some good speed, I been faster then cars before when I rode down there. Then you follow the road with 1 little uphill just after the golf course.

I used to ride this route a lot when I wanted to use the Nose Creek Path system. This way is faster going home, but going out is probably a bit slower then following Harvest hills Blvd to get to the path system.

http://www.derrickleung.ca/Images/Capture.JPG

[BigDL]

Edit: Damm it I thought I hit the edit button not quote...