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you&me
06-15-2009, 08:44 PM
Absolutely insane. Suspiciously quiet.

http://www.japantoday.com/category/crime/view/2-japanese-carrying-134-bil-worth-of-us-bonds-detained-in-italy




2 Japanese carrying $134 bil worth of U.S. bonds detained in Italy

Thursday 11th June, 06:18 AM JST

ROME —

Two Japanese nationals were detained by Italian financial police last week after trying to enter Switzerland with $134 billion worth of undeclared U.S. bonds, mostly Treasury bonds, an Italian daily said Wednesday. The Japanese consulate general in Milan confirmed that the detention had taken place and said it was trying to confirm with Italian authorities whether the two were indeed Japanese nationals and their identities.

According to the report in il Giornale, two unidentified Japanese in their 50s concealed the bonds, including 249 U.S. Treasury bonds each worth $500 million, in a suitcase with a false bottom that was searched by the Italian authorities June 3 when they were in Chiasso, at the border with Switzerland, about 50 kilometers north of Milan. The daily did not say on what charges they have been detained, but the two may have been detained on suspicion of attempting to take a large amount of securities out of Italy without declaring it because the paper said they had not declared the bonds.




http://www.businessinsider.com/italy-seizes-a-ridiculous-135-billion-worth-of-smuggled-us-bonds-2009-6





Italian seized bondsUpdate: The picture on the right is of the seized "bonds", via Italian site Adnkronos.

They look an awful lot like the bonds pictured in this story, about an age-old scam designed to confused seniors into buying fake bonds.

That being said, there was a period when the Treasury did issue high-denomination bonds up to $500 million.

Original post: This is a totally crazy story.

Asia Times: Italy’s financial police (Guardia italiana di Finanza) has seized US bonds worth US 134.5 billion from two Japanese nationals at Chiasso (40 km from Milan) on the border between Italy and Switzerland. They include 249 US Federal Reserve bonds worth US$ 500 million each, plus ten Kennedy bonds and other US government securities worth a billion dollar each.

The question now is whether the bonds are real or counterfeit

Karl Denninger, who discovered the story, notes that either way, this is wild:

If they're real, what government (the only entity that would have such a cache) is trying to unload them?

If they're fake, this is arguably the biggest counterfeiting operation ever, by a factor of many times. I've seen news about various counterfeiting operations over the years that have made me chuckle, but this one, if that's what it is, is absolutely jaw-dropping.

The cute part of this is that if the certificates are real Italy just got a hell of a bonanza - their money laundering laws provide for a statutory 40% penalty for failure to declare instruments and cash in excess of $10,000 Euros, which means they'd garner a close-to-$40 billion dollar windfall.

We're leaning towards counterfeit on this one. Either way, we wanna know more!



http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=15456&size=A



» 06/08/2009 15:18
ASIA – ITALY

US government securities seized from Japanese nationals, not clear whether real or fake

Bonds worth US$ 134.5 billion are seized. This is the largest financial smuggling case in history. But are they real? Concern over ‘funny money’ or counterfeit securities is spreading in Asia. The international press is silent.

Milan (AsiaNews) – Italy’s financial police (Guardia italiana di Finanza) has seized US bonds worth US 134.5 billion from two Japanese nationals at Chiasso (40 km from Milan) on the border between Italy and Switzerland. They include 249 US Federal Reserve bonds worth US$ 500 million each, plus ten Kennedy bonds and other US government securities worth a billion dollar each.

Italian authorities have not yet determined whether they are real or fake, but if they are real the attempt to take them into Switzerland would be the largest financial smuggling operation in history; if they are fake, the matter would be even more mind-boggling because the quality of the counterfeit work is such that the fake bonds are undistinguishable from the real ones.

What caught the policemen’s attention were the billion dollar securities. Such a large denomination is not available in regular financial and banking markets. Only states handle such amounts of money.

The question now is who could or would counterfeit or smuggle these non-negotiable bonds.

In order to stop money laundering Italian law sets a ceiling of 10,000 euros per person for importing or exporting money without declaring it. The penalty for violating the law is 40 per cent of the money seized.

If the certificates were real, for Italy it would be like hitting the jackpot. The fine alone would amount to US$ 38 billion, five times the estimated cost of rebuilding quake-devastated Abruzzi region. It would help Italy’s eliminate its public deficit.

If the certificates are fakes the two Japanese nationals could get a very lengthy jail sentence for fraud.

As soon as the seizure was made the US Embassy in Rome was informed. Italian and US secret services were called in to assist the Italian financial police.

Some important international financial newspapers had already reported on the existence of ‘funny money’ circulating on parallel, i.e. unofficial, financial markets.

For AsiaNews a few points need considering:

1. When it comes to Italy the world press has tended to focus on Italian Prime Minister Berlusconi’s personal problems rather than on stories like the bonds smuggling affair which has been front page on Italian newspapers.

2. The fear of counterfeit bonds and securities has spread across Asia with the result that real securities are also considered with suspicion.

3. During the Second World War several countries at war printed and put in circulation perfectly counterfeit enemy money. It is also historically established that some central banks, like the Bank of Italy 65 years ago, issued the same securities twice (identical registered number and code). This way they could print more money with legal tender than they officially declared. The main difference though is that 65 years ago the world was involved in a bloody war, which is not the case today.

Xtrema
06-15-2009, 09:04 PM
It's Italy, can't you slip a couple bil to let you pass?

ragu
06-15-2009, 09:07 PM
If it was me I'll even slip $100b

97'Scort
06-15-2009, 09:29 PM
Maybe they own AIG?

Trini
06-15-2009, 09:43 PM
jeeze:eek:

arian_ma
06-16-2009, 12:49 AM
Since I am ignorant, can someone please explain to me what the problem is with taking bonds across a boarder? What right does anyone have to take them away from you?

Gart
06-16-2009, 01:27 AM
Originally posted by arian_ma
Since I am ignorant, can someone please explain to me what the problem is with taking bonds across a boarder? What right does anyone have to take them away from you?


I believe generally there's not so much a limit to the amount you can take across borders (at least from my experience here in north america).. However, they just get all pissy at you if you don't declare it. They like to keep track of the monies :)

a really quick, unverified summary: http://canadaonline.about.com/od/customs/a/customsmoney.htm

rage2
06-16-2009, 01:44 AM
The rule is in place to stop money laundering, transferring money over borders for criminal purposes, tax evasion, etc. It makes it very difficult to move large sums of "dirty" money around if you have to declare it.

If you're legit, you can bring billions over the border if you wanted to. Just have to fill out a form, so they can track where the money came from, and where it's going to.

you&me
06-16-2009, 07:22 AM
Originally posted by arian_ma
Since I am ignorant, can someone please explain to me what the problem is with taking bonds across a boarder? What right does anyone have to take them away from you?


As Rage said, the rules are in place to generally curb money laundering. In the case of Italy, the rule is 10,000EUROS.

What is strange in this instance is the value of the individual bonds and the total. Private individuals and companies simply don't have access to $500MM bonds and $1B treasuries - those are the realm of nations. So the question is, what country is interested in secretly moving $130 Billion by these means... I mean two guys and a briefcase, really?

That is, if the monies are real.

If not, what country is would attempt such a fraud. Again, speculation points to a nation due to the accuracy of the bonds. This isn't some 17yo kid printing $500MM bonds off the Lexmark in his parents basement.

scat19
06-16-2009, 09:30 AM
Why are you MM BB everything? You should $$ while you're at it too.

This is a crazy story.

you&me
06-16-2009, 09:51 AM
Originally posted by scat19
Why are you MM BB everything? You should $$ while you're at it too.

This is a crazy story.

MM is the standard abbreviation for million. The "BB" was a typo and I'll edit to a single B.

(MM comes from Latin 'mille', which means 'thousand'. MM = MilleMille = a thousand thousand)

scat19
06-16-2009, 09:53 AM
1000*1000 = 1000000

WOW!

msommers
06-16-2009, 09:58 AM
The Yakuza were certainly doing well for themselves.

Supa Dexta
06-16-2009, 10:01 AM
And why all at once.. (if it is at once). Perhaps they've already made several trips and only got caught with this 134b..:rofl:

Isaiah
06-16-2009, 10:01 AM
In the highly unlikely event that these bonds are real, the bigger issue is the effect this could have on the state of the US economy. Considering that these were confiscated in transit, the intended recipient planned on redeeming them at maturity.

Given than these denominations are not in the public domain, there would have to be high level government involvement for the funds to change hands. With the amount of currency at play, and the countries involved, it would seem likely that both the Yakuza and Mafia could be players in this game.

JAYMEZ
06-16-2009, 10:03 AM
^^ Thats what i was thinking , wow thats a hella lota money!!

clem24
06-16-2009, 10:13 AM
I LOL'ed at the fine part.

ZenOps
06-16-2009, 10:36 AM
Money laundering attempt? For that amount of money - and they simply tried to just walk across the border?

Something doesn't seem right. And yes, $134 billion would have to be declared, heck $10,000 should be declared.

you&me
06-16-2009, 10:58 AM
Originally posted by ZenOps
Money laundering attempt? For that amount of money - and they simply tried to just walk across the border?

Something doesn't seem right. And yes, $134 billion would have to be declared, heck $10,000 should be declared.

10,000Euros is the limit. Italian law states it can 40% of funds that are seized at the border! That could be a boon to the Italian economy!

Chances are slim that the money is real.

To put it in perspective (If it is real), these two individuals would be the third largest US debt holders, ahead of the UK and just slightly behind Russia!

Isaiah
06-16-2009, 11:13 AM
Originally posted by you&me

To put it in perspective (If it is real), these two individuals would be the third largest US debt holders, ahead of the UK and just slightly behind Russia!
False.

1. You are referring to foreign US debt holders. Domestically this isn't even close.
2. China and Japan top the list by a fairly high margin.

Dave P
06-16-2009, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by msommers
The Yakuza were certainly doing well for themselves.

The saw the dealiest warrior and decided they better gtfo of maffia country haha

you&me
06-16-2009, 11:27 AM
Originally posted by Isaiah

False.

1. You are referring to foreign US debt holders. Domestically this isn't even close.
2. China and Japan top the list by a fairly high margin.

Sorry, fourth largest, as per this article -



http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101&sid=afJXAA1ahZyo


Italian Police Ask SEC to Authenticate Seized U.S. Treasuries

By Sonia Sirletti and John Glover

June 12 (Bloomberg) -- Italy’s financial police said they asked the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission to authenticate U.S. government bonds found in the false bottom of a suitcase carried by two Japanese travelers attempting to cross into Switzerland.

The bonds, with a face value of more than $134 billion, are probably forgeries, Colonel Rodolfo Mecarelli of the Guardia di Finanza in Como, Italy, said today. If the notes are genuine, the pair would be the U.S. government’s fourth-biggest creditor, ahead of the U.K. with $128 billion of U.S. debt and just behind Russia, which is owed $138 billion.

The seized notes include 249 securities with a face value of $500 million each and 10 additional bonds with a value of more than $1 billion, the police force said on its Web site. Such high denominations would not have existed in 1934, the purported issue date of the notes, Mecarelli said. Moreover, the “Kennedy” classification of the bonds doesn’t appear to exist, he said.

The bonds were seized in Chiasso, Italy. Mecarelli said he expects a determination from the SEC “within a few days.”