Which of these 2 cars would you build

[2EFNFAST]

I'm plotting out my next project (gotta decide in the next few weeks) and I keep coming down to 2 cars. Which would you choose to build, and why?

A:
'72 917 lemans replica
http://i708.photobucket.com/albums/ww89/efnfast/9172.jpg
http://i708.photobucket.com/albums/ww89/efnfast/9171-2.jpg

(+) it's a 917
(+) it's a 917
(+) it's a fvcken 9-1-7

(-) engine selection limited to 6cyl. porsche; most realistic choices are either a used 993 or 930. Basically 15k for an engine that's used and doesn't make 400+hp without major money dumped into it

(-) transaxle is a 930 gearbox; 4spd and 20yr old (rebuilt and strengthened though) technology

(-) fat lil' piggie; about 2400-2500lbs

B:
superlite coupe
http://www.superlitecars.com/img_coupe/fullsize/rcr_coupe_1_fs.jpg

http://www.superlitecars.com/img_coupe/fullsize/rcr_coupe_7_fs.jpg

(+) you use an LSx engine; 15k gets me 600+hp and a new, freshly built engine

(+) transaxle is a G50X; very strong transaxle, 6spd

(+) ZOMG the wing on that sucker (that's actually functional!) :drool:

(+) modest 1900-2000lb weight when finished

(-) it's not a 917
(-) it's not a 917
(-) it's not a 917 :(


Basically the pros for one are the cons for the other. I just don't know - thoughts are appreciated :)

[scat19]

I love the styling of the first, but it's a replica, not the real thing.

So, with the 600HP, new engine, better tranny, I'd say second choice. :thumbsup:

[texasnick]

Superlite coupe.

I've heard some really cool things about them, plus you get a aluminum monocoque frame for the crazy power you will have. 600 hp + 2100 lbs = holy shit I should have worn the brown pants.




$15k for just the engine right? Aren't the rolling shells around $50k?

[Hakkola]

:werd:

2nd choice, newer design, better car for the money. :thumbsup:

[DonJuan]

2ND ONE

cuz its not a 917

[turbotrip]

2nd one

[eglove]

second one!

[bwling]

B - 600+ HP :drool:

[benz_890]

Superlite Coupe:drool: :drool:

[Russo]

2nd one, I like the style better and it looks like u get more for ur $

[schocker]

I would go with the second just for more newness plus the LSx, perhaps even an LS9 since it is not too much more?

[Redlyne_mr2]

Although not original the 917 would be my choice just because i'm a huge Porsche fan.

[2EFNFAST]

Originally posted by texasnick
Superlite coupe.

I've heard some really cool things about them, plus you get a aluminum monocoque frame for the crazy power you will have. 600 hp + 2100 lbs = holy shit I should have worn the brown pants.


$15k for just the engine right? Aren't the rolling shells around $50k?

yea, 15k is just hte engine. shell is 50 (and it's not really a true roller btw, mostly just brakes held in situ and basic suspension held on). Figure around 80-90k total.

my cobra is 650+ at 2140lbs (now 2125 that I'm almost done installing a lexan windshield, hehehehehe), so this would have to be even lighter weight of course .... can't have any fat lil' piggies running around here ;)


Originally posted by schocker
I would go with the second just for more newness plus the LSx, perhaps even an LS9 since it is not too much more?

I don't know much about the LS9 - can be converted to carb? I hate fuel injection (computers make me upset :cry: ), so it's straight out old-school carb here :D

You just can't beat the simplicity of dumping fuel into the engine and not worrying about injectors or any of that useless crap :D

[Boosted Gtir]

superlite coup :thumbsup:

[2EFNFAST]

I must admit, I am quite surprised by the results so far - i'd have thought it be split mroe 50/50, not 95/5, heh.

[Redlyne_mr2]

Stop wasting time posting and start building. This could be you~!!
:)
eOE9sjsV15w&feature

[EM1FTW]

2nd one!!

[anothers10]

Superlite coupe. Is your cobra a factory five car ?

[962 kid]

917 for sure. You already have 1 ultralight 600+ hp V8 car, so why not do something a little different? Besides, it's a fvcken 917!

[thinmyster]

first one

[2EFNFAST]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
Stop wasting time posting and start building. This could be you~!!
:)
eOE9sjsV15w&feature

Nothign says safety like a car whose roof at the same line as the wheelwell of a civic :D

Besides, I'm waiting for the exchange to hit par again. It'll happen shortly; no sense blowing money for no reason.


Originally posted by anothers10
Superlite coupe. Is your cobra a factory five car ?

yes - factory five.

[JAYMEZ]

2nd for sure!! Do it in white too :drool:

[2EFNFAST]

Originally posted by JAYMEZ
2nd for sure!! Do it in white too :drool:

White would be pimp :drool:

ESpecially since it wouldn't require any intensive detailing :drool: :drool:

[soloracer]

Both would be neat. I guess it depends what your purpose for the car is. For shits and giggles I would go with the 917 but for a purpose built track car I would go with the Superlite or the Ultima GTR (see picture). One thing to consider, Transport Canada has some really strict rules when it comes to kit cars. Factory Five has managed to get their Cobra's certified and I believe their GTM is also allowed. You may find that if you build a 917 clone or Superlite there would be no way of getting it road legal. The same could be true with the GTR although I am aware of a couple in Alberta that may have already been allowed.

http://www.seriouswheels.com/pics-stuv/Ultima-GTR-Side-Stones-1600x1200.jpg

[soloracer]

Here is a factory five GTM project going for a decent price:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200352450426&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT

[FiveFreshFish]

What about a 962 replica?

[Joe-G]

First one for sure! Just because its a 917.
If you did manage to somehow make it street legal, that thing would be a monster!

[2EFNFAST]

Originally posted by soloracer
Both would be neat. I guess it depends what your purpose for the car is. For shits and giggles I would go with the 917 but for a purpose built track car I would go with the Superlite or the Ultima GTR (see picture). One thing to consider, Transport Canada has some really strict rules when it comes to kit cars. Factory Five has managed to get their Cobra's certified and I believe their GTM is also allowed. You may find that if you build a 917 clone or Superlite there would be no way of getting it road legal. The same could be true with the GTR although I am aware of a couple in Alberta that may have already been allowed.


The GTR has never really appealed to me.

I wouldn't do a GTM after building a cobra - FFR's frames are generally very well built, the bodies not so much (about 10-13k in bodywork needed to bring it to an acceptable stage before paint), and the parts supplied are generally crap. For example, my windshield just decided to randomly fracture, forcing me to replace it with a lexan windshield (brand new, only a few hundred miles). I don't think I could subject myself to that experience again (throwing out 3/4 of the stuff I paid good money for, lol)

You can register almost anything in Alberta though, if you can make it past the border. For example, my cobra has been plated and legal for several months, and I don't have ANY mirrors in the car (sideview or rear)....I find they clutter it up to much, and most people stay the heck away from me .... and that's just the beginning of stuff I should have on it that I don't :D

[nismodrifter]

2nd example seems kind of bleh.

Driving around in a 917 rep...or 962 rep....now that would be :bigpimp:. Can't really explain it, but that video Redlyne posted above kind of explains it for me...I mean, just look at it haha.

[m10-power]

Lol you can tell the 'old' folk from the young...

Funny I've been kicking around the idea of doing the 917 but I also looked at the GTM and the Ultima and the Superlite.

I like the 917 best but think the Superlite is the better choice, the Superlite looks modern and probably performs better but as it's been said it's not a 917 (replica or not)

Now I wonder how hard it would be to put two 911 engines together...

[2EFNFAST]

Originally posted by m10-power
Lol you can tell the 'old' folk from the young...

Funny I've been kicking around the idea of doing the 917 but I also looked at the GTM and the Ultima and the Superlite.

I like the 917 best but think the Superlite is the better choice, the Superlite looks modern and probably performs better but as it's been said it's not a 917 (replica or not)

Now I wonder how hard it would be to put two 911 engines together...

Depends on how big your wallet is =)

No question the SLC would perform better - it's probably 4-500lbs lighter, and for equal dollars spent on drivetrain, you'll get another 2-300hp out of it.

[Jim2]

Hmmmm, Calgary's frost heaves, speed bumps, parking lot ramps.... I can't help but think about ground clearance problems. This place just sucks for both your options.

I happened to have some dealings with Fran from RCR last fall, straight up guy. Though I like Porsche powered equipment I'd pick his superlite coupe.

[SHO]

917, It has a history, inspiring car that is a true racer. My personal 2 cents would be to build a ferrari P3.

http://www.nfauto.co.uk/mk4.htm


http://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/crop/200605/1966-ferrari-330-p3-one-o-1_460x0w.jpg

[Graham_A_M]

$15K for a 600hp LSX? I think you need to look around. Thats a fair bit of coin for such a small amount of HP. Try these guys if looking for a streetable SBC. www.tandlengines.com
$15k with those guys will go a LOT farther then a measily 600hp. :dunno:
I'd pick the 2nd choice for sheer reliability. Yes the 917 is pimp to the nines, but I'd be worried about it breaking down if even mildly modded when taking it out on a long sunday rip somewhere if you were to mod it: even just a little.

EDIT: The 930 transaxles aren't bad.. a bunch of kit car enthusiasts use them with quite a bit of luck, so I wouldn't worry about that excessively towards the 917. I think thats nothing to sweat or brood over. :dunno:


RE-EDIT. Wow, do I ever regret buying my Z4, man if I knew about the Ultima, and its performance VS. Cost I would have built that a LONG time ago instead... wow... that car is off the hook :eek:

[ZorroAMG]

917, hands down.

[TorqueDog]

Count me as a vote for the 917.

[cycosis]

porsche

[2EFNFAST]

Still thinking, but man, this picture is giving me a hardon :D
(notice how the roofline is about even with the top of a M3's headlights, hehehe)

http://i708.photobucket.com/albums/ww89/efnfast/slc3.jpg

Mmmm, 40'' ground to roofline........it doesn't sound like much when you say it, but when you see a picture and get out a tape measure..... :drool:


I can just see myself going down Macleod Trail and people looking at me like:

http://i708.photobucket.com/albums/ww89/efnfast/ijeyanthan__WTF_hax.jpg

:rofl:


Originally posted by Graham_A_M
$15K for a 600hp LSX? I think you need to look around. Thats a fair bit of coin for such a small amount of HP. Try these guys if looking for a streetable SBC. www.tandlengines.com
$15k with those guys will go a LOT farther then a measily 600hp. :dunno:
I'd pick the 2nd choice for sheer reliability. Yes the 917 is pimp to the nines, but I'd be worried about it breaking down if even mildly modded when taking it out on a long sunday rip somewhere if you were to mod it: even just a little.

EDIT: The 930 transaxles aren't bad.. a bunch of kit car enthusiasts use them with quite a bit of luck, so I wouldn't worry about that excessively towards the 917. I think thats nothing to sweat or brood over. :dunno:


RE-EDIT. Wow, do I ever regret buying my Z4, man if I knew about the Ultima, and its performance VS. Cost I would have built that a LONG time ago instead... wow... that car is off the hook :eek:

T&L is US, so net cost would be a lot higher. Also, T&L is getting a HORRIBLE reputation around the kit car forums these days - unacceptable delivery times, missing items, improperly installed items (e.g., waterpumps), and basically a knightmare to deal with. Also a lot of reliability (engines going 'boom') issues now. I'm sure at one point there were kickass, just not now.

Also, 930 isn't bad, but let's face it - probably a good 15k to find a decent one, invert it and rebuild it. That's 15k for a transaxle that's like 30yrs old and 4speed. A strengthened Riccardo can be had for around 8k. Although larger (it does fit though) it's beefier and much better.

[B4tMan]

OMA 2nd one

[2EFNFAST]

For anybody who has some photoshop skilzzzzzzzzzzz, could you take this picture and 'paint' the car in arctic white so I could see what it would look like?

TIA :love:

http://www.superlitecars.com/img_coupe/fullsize/rcr_coupe_1_fs.jpg

[atgilchrist]

^White with some black rims would be hawwwwwwwwwt!:love:

[2EFNFAST]

Originally posted by atgilchrist
^White with some black rims would be hawwwwwwwwwt!:love:

Like this? Seriously, this is the best white gelcoat/black rim pic I could find :rofl:

http://i708.photobucket.com/albums/ww89/efnfast/rcrrim1.jpg

[Ntense_SpecV]

Good god man...that rear wheel is almost 3/4 as tall as the total height of the entire car. I think I would almost feel uncomfortable being in traffic with the amout of lifted trucks in this city.

[atgilchrist]

Originally posted by 2EFNFAST


Like this? Seriously, this is the best white gelcoat/black rim pic I could find :rofl:

http://i708.photobucket.com/albums/ww89/efnfast/rcrrim1.jpg

Looks road-ready to me.:dunno:






;) But yes, just like that would be my vote!

[Kloubek]

I like the RCR. Looks wicked in black!

But then, I think this is an even better option:
http://www.factoryfive.com/table/ffrkits/GTM/GTMkit.html

[Kloubek]

Originally posted by 2EFNFAST
[B]For anybody who has some photoshop skilzzzzzzzzzzz, could you take this picture and 'paint' the car in arctic white so I could see what it would look like?


Pretty much impossible - using standard photoshop tools. It would require actual reconstruction and a lot of effort. More than I want to put in. :)

[2EFNFAST]

Originally posted by Ntense_SpecV
Good god man...that rear wheel is almost 3/4 as tall as the total height of the entire car. I think I would almost feel uncomfortable being in traffic with the amout of lifted trucks in this city.

Not me; I'm crazy liek that :D


Originally posted by Kloubek


Pretty much impossible - using standard photoshop tools. It would require actual reconstruction and a lot of effort. More than I want to put in. :)

What about for the offer of some e-bum secks...worth it then :poosie: :nut:


Originally posted by Kloubek
I like the RCR. Looks wicked in black!

But then, I think this is an even better option:
http://www.factoryfive.com/table/ffrkits/GTM/GTMkit.html

Actually, it's a much much much worse option.

- Realistically you're looking around 100kCDN to build one. Don't believe the hype that they can be done for 40-50k.

- For the end cost, the design of the frame sucks. There are a lot of engineering flaws in it that have been pointed out. It's okay, but it's not the greatest. Heck, you have peple building their own bloody control arms for it since the stockers suck so much!

- Bodywork is a joke. Actually, any FFR bodywork is a joke - I thought it was acceptable for a kit car to need 10-14k in bodywork to get it paint ready. It's not.

Basically it comes down to looking at net price points and seeing what you get. You don't get a whole heck of a lot with the GTM.

Thing thing I've learned about FFR cars is that up-front they seem like a great deal because of the price; however, the backend (net) price is always what gets you, unless you're building a donor car. Something like RCR costs a lot more (2x+) on the front end, but the back end is cheaper because you arn't throwing out 3/4 of the parts and spending oodles on bodywork.

[npham]

917 is so freaking pimp, easily my choice.

[m10-power]

Have you looking into how to get it across the border?

[Kloubek]

Originally posted by 2EFNFAST

What about for the offer of some e-bum secks...worth it then :poosie: :nut:

Actually, it's a much much much worse option.



Point 1: Not so much. :)

Point 2: Thanks for pointing out the faults of the design - I had no idea... I drooled over the design as soon as I saw it, but I guess not so much now...

[soloracer]

Originally posted by m10-power
Have you looking into how to get it across the border?

That is what I was wondering too. Transport Canada frowns upon kit cars. I know that Factory Five got an exemption for their Cobra cars - minus a few parts - and I think they may even have gotten their GTM approved. For cars like the Superlite and Ultima I'm not sure what is involved in getting them approved for the street. Might not be a simple or inexpensive procedure.

[2EFNFAST]

Originally posted by Kloubek


Point 2: Thanks for pointing out the faults of the design - I had no idea... I drooled over the design as soon as I saw it, but I guess not so much now...

Don't get me wrong, it's not a horrible design - but it comes down to, if you're going to spend 80-100k to build your own car, do you one that is engineered beyond belief and whose body is paint ready out of the mold, or one that requires A LOT of work, beefing up, and body work.

For example, if you look at the LCAs. Here's your typical factory five GTM stamped steel control arm:

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e318/mako_cc/GTM%20Misc/DSCN1450sm.jpg

Now RCR:
http://www.race-car-replicas.com/RCR_suspension_pics/fullsize/RCR_suspension_20_fs.png

http://www.race-car-replicas.com/RCR_suspension_pics/fullsize/RCR_suspension_19_fs.png


See any quality differences ;)

[Matlok77]

Originally posted by Kloubek


Pretty much impossible - using standard photoshop tools. It would require actual reconstruction and a lot of effort. More than I want to put in. :)

Quick example-

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab71/MattRock77/rcr_coupe_1_white.jpg

Quick and dirty trick Kloubek- Try select color range-screen and darken blend modes, then quick mask to paint back detail. 8 mins flat.

[scat19]

Originally posted by 2EFNFAST

http://www.race-car-replicas.com/RCR_suspension_pics/fullsize/RCR_suspension_19_fs.png


See any quality differences ;)

I'd put that in a case on my coffee table! That's beautiful.

[m10-power]

Originally posted by 2EFNFAST


Don't get me wrong, it's not a horrible design - but it comes down to, if you're going to spend 80-100k to build your own car, do you one that is engineered beyond belief and whose body is paint ready out of the mold, or one that requires A LOT of work, beefing up, and body work.

For example, if you look at the LCAs. Here's your typical factory five GTM stamped steel control arm:

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e318/mako_cc/GTM%20Misc/DSCN1450sm.jpg

Now RCR:
http://www.race-car-replicas.com/RCR_suspension_pics/fullsize/RCR_suspension_20_fs.png

http://www.race-car-replicas.com/RCR_suspension_pics/fullsize/RCR_suspension_19_fs.png


See any quality differences ;)


Actually the first picture you show as stamped steel is a factory C5 Corvette upper rear control arm, made from aluminum. I personally would put more faith in that piece then the nice machined ones from RCR. Not saying the RCR piece is bad, but I would wager the General put more engineering effort, testing and proving into that piece the RCR spent developing their complete car.

[2EFNFAST]

Originally posted by m10-power


Actually the first picture you show as stamped steel is a factory C5 Corvette upper rear control arm, made from aluminum. I personally would put more faith in that piece then the nice machined ones from RCR. Not saying the RCR piece is bad, but I would wager the General put more engineering effort, testing and proving into that piece the RCR spent developing their complete car.

Hmmm, I did not know that - I thought that was one of FFR's pieces. (then again I'm not exactly a GTM expert since I'm not build one, hehe). I will search more, as i know they supply some control arms for the build.

Btw, RCRs is still better. That's my belief and I'm sticking to it :love:

In the mean-time, here's an example of what the cobra and coupe use from FFR.

http://parts.factoryfive.com/newcatalog/chassis/pictures/capindrive.jpg

That I have a fair bit of knowledge on, hehe, and I think we can all agree that the RCR pieces are leagues ahead of that.