JL or JBL?

[wolfsg]

Hey everybody, I'm new to amp systems and I was wondering if you guys had any advice for me on what system to purchase. I have a Pontiac Grand Am GT 2000 with the factory system still installed.

A place called Horizon Audio wants to set me up with 2 JL 12" 300w 4ohm subs and a 300watt ab amp. The price of the whole system plus the cost of installing it will be $399.95. They have a sale going on till the end of June, that's why the price is lower than normal.

The second place I went to called DJ's wants to put in 2 12" JBL 4ohm subs and a TMA 500watt amp. They said I would be better off with the 500 watt because it will give me more power. They also recommend the JBLs over the JLs. Their price for the system plus installation is $429.85.

Both stores are convinced that the system they picked out will be best for me. I just need an honest opinion from someone who isn't trying to sell me something. Which should I go with? I don't want my system to just be loud, I want it to sound good. I care more about the sound quality that each system produces than I do about how loud it can get. I listen to rock and rap mainly if that has any bearing on which system I should choose. I've done research on both JL and JBL. I've read a lot of good things about JLs, but also that you shouldn't underestimate the JBLs. So what do you guys think? My car is only a two door and I'm not sure if DJ's factored that in when they recommended a higher watt amp. Anybody ever had any problems with their JLs or JBLs? If you could help me out at all it would be greatly appreciated. :)

*ADDITIONAL INFO*- The JL subs are 12Wov2-4. The JL amp is a G1300. I'm not sure what the JBLs are though. Sorry :(

[nobb]

It would be better if you had the model numbers of the subs to compare. JL I would say is definately good, but overpriced. I have a JL 12W6V2, which is awesome. Luckily, I got it at a very good price, but I would never pay retail price for JL stuff. No experience with JBL though.

[wolfsg]

Originally posted by nobb
It would be better if you had the model numbers of the subs to compare. JL I would say is definately good, but overpriced. I have a JL 12W6V2, which is awesome. Luckily, I got it at a very good price, but I would never pay retail price for JL stuff. No experience with JBL though.
Thanks nobb :) . I added more info to my original post. Like I added, the JLs are 12Wov2-4. I don't know what model the JBLs are though. Does the price for the JLs sound good to you?

Anybody else have any advice?

[Graham_A_M]

The amps wont make much of a difference SQ wise, power wise obviously but that depends on their RMS ratings and how they're to be wired in with their corresponding subs, but the subs sure will. I'd ask if either place can install a used amp that they may have in the back of a shop, and give each sub a good audition to see which you like better.
Both JL and JBL are mediocre brands... not bad... but nothing high end to be sure.

Go for the audition and see what you like, try a variety of music and listening levels, and make your decision from there.

[wolfsg]

Thanks for the advice Graham :). I'll see if either place will put in an old amp so I can test it out.

Anybody else? :(

[Travel_Dude]

JL is wonderful stuff.

Ive had multiple sets of amps/subs/speakers (W3's/xr components/500/1 etc) over the years, from the top of there line to the entry level. All of there stuff has been fantastic both in sound quality and reliability. (I used to work at Soundsaround for 5 years)

It all depends on what you want to spend. There are a wide variety of stuff and types of sounds.

I love a two 8 inch or 1 sealed 10 setup with a single set of 6.5 components up front.

Try 6.5s biamped off a 4 channel amp with a 500x1 powering a 10w3v2. That will sound pretty great at a "small" cost. Make sure you get custom install with all the usual dynamat etc.

It also depends on what types of music you like. With R&B a nice sealed 12 might be nice, or with rock/house you might want something a little more "tight".

I would just go into soundsaround or audioconcepts and ask a knowledgable saleman. Try visions too.

[nobb]

The 12W0v2 is the lowest end of the JL lineup. Any reason why you chose to go two of these? Since you mentioned you were into sound quality, maybe consider a single 12W3v2 for roughly the same price instead? I saw a Visions flier for this week, the Alpine Type R 10 inch sub is on sale for $200. This is a very popular sub, definitely better than the 12W0v2. Maybe something to consider?

Never really heard much praise for JBL products compared to JL stuff in the car audio world, but maybe you could just have a listen and decide based on what you like?

[wolfsg]

Originally posted by Travel_Dude
JL is wonderful stuff. Ive had multiple sets of amps/subs/speakers (W3's/xr components/500/1 etc) over the years, from the top of there line to the entry level. All of there stuff has been fantastic both in sound quality and reliability. (I used to work at Soundsaround for 5 years)
It all depends on what you want to spend. There are a wide variety of stuff and types of sounds.
I love a two 8 inch or 1 sealed 10 setup with a single set of 6.5 components up front.
Try 6.5s biamped off a 4 channel amp with a 500x1 powering a 10w3v2. That will sound pretty great at a "small" cost. Make sure you get custom install with all the usual dynamat etc.
It also depends on what types of music you like. With R&B a nice sealed 12 might be nice, or with rock/house you might want something a little more "tight".
I would just go into soundsaround or audioconcepts and ask a knowledgable saleman. Try visions too.

I looked up soundsaround and it looks like they don't have any stores near me. I couldn't find any information on audioconcepts or visions. Would you be able to send me a link to either of their sites?


Originally posted by nobb
The 12W0v2 is the lowest end of the JL lineup. Any reason why you chose to go two of these? Since you mentioned you were into sound quality, maybe consider a single 12W3v2 for roughly the same price instead? I saw a Visions flier for this week, the Alpine Type R 10 inch sub is on sale for $200. This is a very popular sub, definitely better than the 12W0v2. Maybe something to consider?

Never really heard much praise for JBL products compared to JL stuff in the car audio world, but maybe you could just have a listen and decide based on what you like?

I didn't know the 12W0v2 was the lowest when it came to JL. I really don't know ANYTHING about amp systems. The sales guy did all the choosing of subs and amps because I didn't know what I was looking for. It could have been that the 12W0v2s were the only subs included in the sale. I only have around $600 to spend on the amp and subs.

Unfortunately, I'm assuming Visions is a company in Canada, in which case I won't be able to purchase anything from them since I live in the US. The best I could do then is have it shipped to me and try to find somewhere willing to install the system I would purchase.

The only problem with trying to compare the JLs and the JBLs by their sound would be that neither store I went to has them hooked up to be able to listen to.

[S13_Ryan]

ive got 2 10Wo's in my 240 paired up with an infinity amplifer and i couldn't be more happy. i paid about 80 bucks each for these subs from a&b sound about 2 years ago and they still make me smile.

bass is incredibly clear, not overdone. i don't think ive sat in a car with a more crisp sound system.

i vote JL:thumbsup:

[Mibz]

Guy's in Ohio so he's gonna have to find his own shops.

Anyway, I also had two 10W0s powered by an Alpine MRPM-450. I bought them used in 2000 and they were both still going strong when I sold the car in 2006. I bet the new owner is still running them. They sound good, regardless of what any faux-audiophile will tell you. You will be happy with them, and that's all that matters.

The only reason I ran two is because that's how I bought them though, like buddy mentioned, if you can get a single 12W3 for a similar price and power it properly then I'd do that.

[wolfsg]

Originally posted by S13_Ryan
ive got 2 10Wo's in my 240 paired up with an infinity amplifer and i couldn't be more happy. i paid about 80 bucks each for these subs from a&b sound about 2 years ago and they still make me smile. bass is incredibly clear, not overdone. i don't think ive sat in a car with a more crisp sound system.

i vote JL:thumbsup:

Thanks :D



Originally posted by Mibz
Guy's in Ohio so he's gonna have to find his own shops.

Anyway, I also had two 10W0s powered by an Alpine MRPM-450. I bought them used in 2000 and they were both still going strong when I sold the car in 2006. I bet the new owner is still running them. They sound good, regardless of what any faux-audiophile will tell you. You will be happy with them, and that's all that matters.

The only reason I ran two is because that's how I bought them though, like buddy mentioned, if you can get a single 12W3 for a similar price and power it properly then I'd do that.

*Girl's* in Ohio actually, not guy ;). I apologize to everyone whose suggested shops. I should have specified where I live.

Thanks for your help Mibz. I know the subs that I have to choose from aren't the most high-end, but I'm kinda on a budget :(

[Travel_Dude]

Here is what you need when you walk into a store:

1. Your budget (with install price/wiring/tax)
2. What type of sound (simple and tight? Loud and booming? These are very different things)
3. A disc with the music you like. Stuff you can pop into a demo room and listen to.

My recommendation:

-smaller subs x2, e.g. two 8's or 10's instead of a 12 inch. (sealed box IMO)
-Bi-amp your speakers if possible (This is accomplished with a 4 channel amp to power your front speakers)
-Get good wiring and a capacitor
-Put money into a good install. This is extremely important in car audio.
-Find a good car audio store with lots of different products. This wont pigeon hole you into a certain brand. If they carry alot of products they will give you honest opinions on what is better.
-Find a good salesman and tell him exactly what your budget is, with tax and install. Then tell him what type of music you listen to.


I would buy:

a 10 inch sub in a sealed box. Great value! (e.g. JL 10W3V2)

6.5 inch component speakers for the front doors in a solid custom pod. (A pod will increase your midrange)

A 4 channel amp that will power your 6.5 inch speakers, make sure they are biamps for more power. Power doesn't necessarily mean louder, it also mean cleaner.

A mono amplifier to power your sub. (A 500/1 JL amp should be fine for a 10W3V2)

Lastly a custom install. This might be expensive but it can be simple and totally change the sound of the system. Not only will it sound great, but your car will be functional by hiding the sub/amps.

GL!

[theken]

where in ohio?

[wolfsg]

Originally posted by Travel_Dude
Here is what you need when you walk into a store:

1. Your budget (with install price/wiring/tax)
2. What type of sound (simple and tight? Loud and booming? These are very different things)
3. A disc with the music you like. Stuff you can pop into a demo room and listen to.

My recommendation:

-smaller subs x2, e.g. two 8's or 10's instead of a 12 inch. (sealed box IMO)
-Bi-amp your speakers if possible (This is accomplished with a 4 channel amp to power your front speakers)
-Get good wiring and a capacitor
-Put money into a good install. This is extremely important in car audio.
-Find a good car audio store with lots of different products. This wont pigeon hole you into a certain brand. If they carry alot of products they will give you honest opinions on what is better.
-Find a good salesman and tell him exactly what your budget is, with tax and install. Then tell him what type of music you listen to.


I would buy:

a 10 inch sub in a sealed box. Great value! (e.g. JL 10W3V2)

6.5 inch component speakers for the front doors in a solid custom pod. (A pod will increase your midrange)

A 4 channel amp that will power your 6.5 inch speakers, make sure they are biamps for more power. Power doesn't necessarily mean louder, it also mean cleaner.

A mono amplifier to power your sub. (A 500/1 JL amp should be fine for a 10W3V2)

Lastly a custom install. This might be expensive but it can be simple and totally change the sound of the system. Not only will it sound great, but your car will be functional by hiding the sub/amps.

GL!

Thanks a ton Travel_Dude :). The only problems I have with your suggestions are that I plan on leaving the factory speakers in the front. I can't afford new speakers yet and since the factory speakers are 9 years old, I don't want to give them TOO much power and end up blowing them out. Taking that into consideration, would you still recommend that I get smaller subs? The salesman that wants me to get the JLs said I should get the 12"s just because I have enough room for them. The 10" ones are available at that store though.
Also, my options are very limited when it comes to car audio places. The two stores that I'm deciding between are pretty much the only ones within an hour's drive. I definitely agree with you when it comes to the installation though. I'm paying to get it installed. I won't risk messing something up in my car or putting the system in wrong.

I know, it's probably not the best set-up in the world, but it's what I can afford.

[wolfsg]

Originally posted by theken
where in ohio?


Bout 2 hours from Columbus. I'm not sure how familiar you are with the Ohio region so I named a big city ;)

[Graham_A_M]

^ I was about to rag on Travel_Dude since it appears he knows what hes talking about, but in reality doesn't.
Anybody that thinks Sealed boxes are the cleanest: or the smaller the sub: the cleaner the bass obviously doesn't have a vague clue what they're talking about.

No, subs do not always sound the cleanest in sealed boxes. I have in my car a 12" thats in a ported box (if you were here in Calgary I'd be happy to audition it for you). Upon choosing the sub its speed (measured by something called "Step response") is almost as fast as the human ear (as per its software parameter analysis): given the conditions that its put in the proper box; abiet in this case a ported one. Did I mention its a 12? or that its in a ported box?
I've heard 18's even quicker and more musical then my 12. Size does not matter. Subwoofer size does not inter-relate to the speed of a feather wieght VS a heavy weight boxer. Im amazed at how people *constantly* think it does. What size does do: is determine how much air is moved. Thats it. Seriously.... Everything else (including how musical or "deep the bass is etc.) is determined by specs (Called "Theile and Small parameters")that are not known to 99% of the car audio community, as what was just displayed in this thread alone.
The more air, the more SPL. Lower frequencies require that much more air to be moved, as hense larger diameter subs can typically drop lower then would an 8" for example, again within exception.

When was the last time you heard a computer speaker set up with a 6 or 8" sub that sounded like ass? would it be safe to say its not size that determines how fast or musical a sub is? :nut:
There is SO much mis-information in car audio its incredible. :facepalm: Sorry for sounding like a dick, it just drives me nuts having to re-explain things because someone misleads a person that ALSO doesen't know much of anything.

Yes to answer your question dont replace your factory system just yet... there is no point dropping $1k+ on a fairly decent set up if you can be 85% happy with spending $300-400 on just a sub and amp combo. When you start adding amps for the full range speakers the install costs & initial costs can go up exponentially. Just do one step at a time, and take things from there. I've seen people spend $8k+ on a completely custom set up that I'd beat out (SQ and sometimes SPL wise) with my DIY $1k install :dunno:
Its just know how. Not the $ amount spent. ;)

[bundi]

Originally posted by Travel_Dude
Here is what you need when you walk into a store:

1. Your budget (with install price/wiring/tax)
2. What type of sound (simple and tight? Loud and booming? These are very different things)
3. A disc with the music you like. Stuff you can pop into a demo room and listen to.

My recommendation:

-smaller subs x2, e.g. two 8's or 10's instead of a 12 inch. (sealed box IMO)
-Bi-amp your speakers if possible (This is accomplished with a 4 channel amp to power your front speakers)
-Get good wiring and a capacitor
-Put money into a good install. This is extremely important in car audio.
-Find a good car audio store with lots of different products. This wont pigeon hole you into a certain brand. If they carry alot of products they will give you honest opinions on what is better.
-Find a good salesman and tell him exactly what your budget is, with tax and install. Then tell him what type of music you listen to.


I would buy:

a 10 inch sub in a sealed box. Great value! (e.g. JL 10W3V2)

6.5 inch component speakers for the front doors in a solid custom pod. (A pod will increase your midrange)

A 4 channel amp that will power your 6.5 inch speakers, make sure they are biamps for more power. Power doesn't necessarily mean louder, it also mean cleaner.

A mono amplifier to power your sub. (A 500/1 JL amp should be fine for a 10W3V2)

Lastly a custom install. This might be expensive but it can be simple and totally change the sound of the system. Not only will it sound great, but your car will be functional by hiding the sub/amps.

GL!

10W3v2's are awesome subs, good sound quality -- and that's good sound quality at fairly loud levels too.

Judging by the quotes you got.. your Budget is around $500? If this is the case.. a JL 500/1 will be awesome, but you won't have any money left over to hook subs or even a wiring kit up to it...

With your application in a trunk and your budget of ~$500 I would not look at JL. I love JL subs.. they make some of the best mainstream car audio you can buy, but not at your price point.

Just remember, if sounding good is important, so is the output of the sub... if you buy Low end SQ subs, you will have good audio quality at low volumes, but if you turn em up high enough to hear the base all the way back in your trunk they are going to sound like shit and not last long.

One route I can recommend would be 2 Alpine Type-S 10" subs in a sealed box with a Clarion AB or Monoblock amp. 400RMS should do you good and be fairly close to ~$550.

Of course.. if your stores don't sell clarion or alpine, then JBL is good too, I'm just not familiar with their products so I can't recommend anything specific.

Also remember when demoing -- they are always a LOT louder in your car ;)

Good Luck

[Travel_Dude]

Graham,

If you look at her budget then my point remains valid. In her price range a simple 10 inch in a sealed box will sound great for her music tastes.

Sure there are larger subs that can sound better, but at what price? The 10W3V2 will sound "tighter" than the 12W3V2. There are always exceptions of course, as you noted in your post.

Just buy a 10 inch and put it in a spec box (sealed) and off you go.


EDIT: From my experience I have found that smaller subs sound better than larger subs in the same price range. I just like the sound of a nice 10 inch compared to the same 12 inch in the same product line. Meh, personal preference after listening to car audio shit for the last 15 years.

[wolfsg]

Originally posted by Graham_A_M
^ I was about to rag on Travel_Dude since it appears he knows what hes talking about, but in reality doesn't.
Anybody that thinks Sealed boxes are the cleanest: or the smaller the sub: the cleaner the bass obviously doesn't have a vague clue what they're talking about.

No, subs do not always sound the cleanest in sealed boxes. I have in my car a 12" thats in a ported box (if you were here in Calgary I'd be happy to audition it for you). Upon choosing the sub its speed (measured by something called "Step response") is almost as fast as the human ear (as per its software parameter analysis): given the conditions that its put in the proper box; abiet in this case a ported one. Did I mention its a 12? or that its in a ported box?
I've heard 18's even quicker and more musical then my 12. Size does not matter. Subwoofer size does not inter-relate to the speed of a feather wieght VS a heavy weight boxer. Im amazed at how people *constantly* think it does. What size does do: is determine how much air is moved. Thats it. Seriously.... Everything else (including how musical or "deep the bass is etc.) is determined by specs (Called "Theile and Small parameters")that are not known to 99% of the car audio community, as what was just displayed in this thread alone.
The more air, the more SPL. Lower frequencies require that much more air to be moved, as hense larger diameter subs can typically drop lower then would an 8" for example, again within exception.

When was the last time you heard a computer speaker set up with a 6 or 8" sub that sounded like ass? would it be safe to say its not size that determines how fast or musical a sub is? :nut:
There is SO much mis-information in car audio its incredible. :facepalm: Sorry for sounding like a dick, it just drives me nuts having to re-explain things because someone misleads a person that ALSO doesen't know much of anything.

Yes to answer your question dont replace your factory system just yet... there is no point dropping $1k+ on a fairly decent set up if you can be 85% happy with spending $300-400 on just a sub and amp combo. When you start adding amps for the full range speakers the install costs & initial costs can go up exponentially. Just do one step at a time, and take things from there. I've seen people spend $8k+ on a completely custom set up that I'd beat out (SQ and sometimes SPL wise) with my DIY $1k install :dunno:
Its just know how. Not the $ amount spent. ;)

Thanks for putting it in a way I can understand :D. My budget is closer to $700 actually. I get paid today so I'm gonna have more money to work with. $150 is going to buy a new radio to replace the factory one. I need a radio that I can control the subwoofers and factory speakers separately so that way I can be sure I won't blow the factory speakers. So would you say that, when I have the option between 12s and 10s, that I should get the 12s? Just trying to make sure I understood correctly :)

[wolfsg]

Originally posted by bundi


10W3v2's are awesome subs, good sound quality -- and that's good sound quality at fairly loud levels too.

Judging by the quotes you got.. your Budget is around $500? If this is the case.. a JL 500/1 will be awesome, but you won't have any money left over to hook subs or even a wiring kit up to it...

With your application in a trunk and your budget of ~$500 I would not look at JL. I love JL subs.. they make some of the best mainstream car audio you can buy, but not at your price point.

Just remember, if sounding good is important, so is the output of the sub... if you buy Low end SQ subs, you will have good audio quality at low volumes, but if you turn em up high enough to hear the base all the way back in your trunk they are going to sound like shit and not last long.

One route I can recommend would be 2 Alpine Type-S 10" subs in a sealed box with a Clarion AB or Monoblock amp. 400RMS should do you good and be fairly close to ~$550.

Of course.. if your stores don't sell clarion or alpine, then JBL is good too, I'm just not familiar with their products so I can't recommend anything specific.

Also remember when demoing -- they are always a LOT louder in your car ;)

Good Luck

What if my budget is closer to $700 for the whole system? How does that change the options I have to work with? I get paid today so I'll have more money to play around with. Like I told Graham before you though, I'm buying a new radio to replace the factory one that's in my car. I need a radio that I can control the subs and factory speakers separately so I can ensure that I don't blow out the factory speakers. The radio's $150, which will be covered by what I'm getting paid today. So I'll have that much more money to spend on the subs and amp. :)

[wolfsg]

Originally posted by Travel_Dude
Graham,

If you look at her budget then my point remains valid. In her price range a simple 10 inch in a sealed box will sound great for her music tastes.

Sure there are larger subs that can sound better, but at what price? The 10W3V2 will sound "tighter" than the 12W3V2. There are always exceptions of course, as you noted in your post.

Just buy a 10 inch and put it in a spec box (sealed) and off you go.


EDIT: From my experience I have found that smaller subs sound better than larger subs in the same price range. I just like the sound of a nice 10 inch compared to the same 12 inch in the same product line. Meh, personal preference after listening to car audio shit for the last 15 years.
What's a "sealed" box exactly? Is that when the amp is put in the floor of your trunk? I'm sorry if that's common knowledge, but I have no idea what it is :( Pics of one might help, if anyone has any.

[ntegra98rs]

A sealed enslosure just means a box with no 'ports' to let the air moved by the sub out. This provides a more responsive sounding speaker, but it wont be as loud

Sealed

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51sK5jAmm8L._SL500_AA280_.jpg

Ported:

http://www.getprice.com.au/images/uploadimg/964/350__1_UB15S.jpg

[wolfsg]

Originally posted by ntegra98rs
A sealed enslosure just means a box with no 'ports' to let the air moved by the sub out. This provides a more responsive sounding speaker, but it wont be as loud

Sealed

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51sK5jAmm8L._SL500_AA280_.jpg

Ported:

http://www.getprice.com.au/images/uploadimg/964/350__1_UB15S.jpg
Ohh ok thanks ntegra :). The sealed box is what both stores were going to set me up with