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TurboD
06-24-2009, 05:28 PM
edited for proper terminology

this may have been brought up before, but i had a revelation and was going to see if people think this is logical or irrational.

http://www.weight-lifting-complete.com/image-files/trap-bar.jpg

would anyone see a problem with using the trap bar to do deadlifts?

i have an idea for this thread, ill lay out the pro's and if anyone has con's they can add so as to enlighten me.

pro - saves your shins
pro - allows you to position your feet right in line with your body
pro - always a straight back as to avoid back injury/soreness
pro - better grip
pro - better stance = better balance
pro - faster to load and unload weights
pro - you can combine deadlifts and shrugs in one rep
pro - it sets the framework for posture and technique for straight bar dead lifts

liquidboi69
06-24-2009, 05:55 PM
There's something called a trap bar. This is for shrugs. If you want to do deadlifts with everything you said, you use a trap bar.

Please Note/Cons:
-Handle height is alot higher than convetional DL. Not only does the 45lb weight not touch the ground, but the handles are raised. (If this is desirable for you, trap bar has a high and normal handle)
-Cage has stands. If you don't place it down perfectly it will topple over. Trap bar is better for this
-Cage has multiple pieces that move (from an engineering standpoint, more places to fail). Trap bar is one single heavy duty bar
-Cage has swiveling handles. Good for shrugs, not good for deadlifts (can shift weight around possibly leading to a slipped disc)
-Most people do not combine deadlifts and shrugs into one rep
-Grip is harder, not easier because you can't do baseball grip.
-Trap bar is mechanically lighter/easier...as the weight is directly in line with your center of gravity. The further away it is, the longer the lever/'heavier'.
-Trap bar/shrug cages bar sleeves are not as long as normal bars. You can only fit ~600lb with 45lb plates on them. Olympic bars fit more.

Yea many people have had your revelation before. Alot of powerlifters have trap bars. They're sold at Go-Mango Fitness for ~$250.

Weight capacity on trap bars would far exceed the shrug cage, because the handles aren't solid on the shrug cage. A guy I workout with loaded 800lb on a trap bar, and it held up fine. Though I think that's near the limit.

TurboD
06-24-2009, 07:05 PM
^ yeah, trap bar is the proper term, and the picture is only cause i couldn't find a picture of the trap bar.

so to clear up my initial post, i was talking about a trap bar, i didn't even know there was two different ones.

some good info i think in that last post.

lint
06-24-2009, 07:10 PM
wtf? a kipping pull up isn't a real exercise, it's a failed pull up, it's cheating, it's a girl pull up, it's only done by teenage half wits, etc etc etc. Here you're arguing that a shrug cage deadlift is BETTER than a conventional deadlift? :facepalm:

Darkane
06-24-2009, 07:13 PM
Trap bars are ideal for injured backs.

You can load the posterior chain much harder with the trap bar, and turn it around you got a shorter (or longer) range of motion again saving or rehabbing your back.

If you're healthy however, "saving you shins" is not a reason to use the trap bar.

The proper reason is to:

a) Back issues/Rehab

b) Work on weak spots ie: Posterior chain

c) As an accessory to conventional deadlift.

Or you could replace squats with it - again for injury sake or accessory. Never ever actually Replace a Squat with anything lol.

But yeah, don't use it because it saves shins :rofl:

TurboD
06-24-2009, 07:16 PM
yeah, no, the shin thing doesn't really bother me, when i do deadlifts i don't injure my shins at all, so thats not a worry.

i just felt that it worked my legs a lot better and felt a lot less stressful on my back and i wanted to see if i was making a fool of myself in the gym.

Darkane
06-24-2009, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by TurboD
yeah, no, the shin thing doesn't really bother me, when i do deadlifts i don't injure my shins at all, so thats not a worry.

i just felt that it worked my legs a lot better and felt a lot less stressful on my back and i wanted to see if i was making a fool of myself in the gym.

Oh yeah, they have their place for sure.

Want an insane workout? Try doing 20 rep trap bar deadlift sets.

Load the bar with a 12-14rep weight and do 20.

It will crush you, but you'll grow like a son of a bitch - Assuming diet is in check :)

liquidboi69
06-24-2009, 08:08 PM
I mainly use the trap bar as a deadlift variation (which should be changed every once in a while to get over plateaus), or for rehab. I wouldn't use it as a replacement for normal olympic bar deadlifts.

Deadlift variations:
Sumo
Conventional (with pause at bottom)
Stiff-leg (touch and go)
Trap bar (with high or low handles...high works lockout)
Deficits (DL standing on boards, this gives larger range of motion and a lower starting position)
Any of the above deadlifts while wearing a weight vest (this will work off the ground strength more than lockout)

Just cycle those variations every month or two. Don't replace the normal bar with the trap bar.

kutt3r
06-25-2009, 07:12 AM
No one mentioned that they hit your quads like a mother fucker?

Trap bars are great for accessory work, they should not completely replace s DL, but can be cycled in and out without issue.

You will need better than average flexibility to use it correctly though, otherwise you could end up hurting yourself. Don't fool yourself into thinking they will save your back... if you have poor form, the bar ain't going to fix anything for you.

I will throw in trap bar 20's after my DL's for shits and giggles...they suck.

Scarred shins are cool..

:bigpimp:

civic_rida
06-25-2009, 08:10 AM
Actually I saw a video of Layne Norton using a trap bar to do deadlifts.

Oz-
06-25-2009, 08:46 AM
Why are you even considering the trap bar for deadlifts?

Are you injured?

Trying to shrug the weight at the end of a deadlift, will lead to some very sore and possibly injured traps.

Stop being such an OCD lifter and have some patience. Reading and thinking you have the next big idea will not replace the one thing it sounds like you are trying to avoid...

PS: If you are scared about your shins, wear soccer shinguards.

scboss
06-28-2009, 10:25 PM
Man for some reason when i used this 8 months ago it actually messed my back up and i was unable to work or anything for 2 weeks. Im 6'3 and i find that my stance wasnt wide enough and my form was comprimised. I just started doing deadlifts again 3 weeks ago and i only use the olympic bar and i feel fine although the weight im lifting is reallly low( 25 on each side). I guess do whatever works for you just be careful i had to take deadlifts out of my routine for a long time because of my injury and it is very important.

TurboD
07-02-2009, 06:13 PM
i find that it helped my dead lifts tremendously.

my first time dead lifting on the olympic bar i did 135lbs and i felt awkward and felt my form was not great.

did a session with the trap bar and the next time i did dead lifts i was doing 185lbs on the olympic bar without hurting my back, which is already 30lbs heavier than my bodyweight.

which is nothing to brag about, but it set up my form a lot better.

Darkane
07-02-2009, 06:18 PM
Originally posted by warcaster
Man for some reason when i used this 8 months ago it actually messed my back up and i was unable to work or anything for 2 weeks. Im 6'3 and i find that my stance wasnt wide enough and my form was comprimised. I just started doing deadlifts again 3 weeks ago and i only use the olympic bar and i feel fine although the weight im lifting is reallly low( 25 on each side). I guess do whatever works for you just be careful i had to take deadlifts out of my routine for a long time because of my injury and it is very important.

Warcaster,

It's not that you could go wide enough, it's because you have poor hip mobility and hams are probably to tight.

How do I know this? I'm a 6'3" lifter too.

I have narrower than shoulder stance (same as Arnie did when he lifted heavy on the dead) and getting your ass down and exploding with your legs/hips is important.

Drag the bar up your shins toward you. I got a feeling you were not doing this and used all you used was your low back.

scboss
07-02-2009, 10:19 PM
The problem for me wasnt the lift i hurt myself when i was putting it back on the stand. I just like having the weight in front of me i guess, im sure this works for others but even if putting it back comprimises my form espeacially after my injury im gonna stay far away.