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sh0ko
06-26-2009, 01:54 PM
Hey guys

im fairly split between the video card that will come with the next dell computer im going to buy

ATi Radeon HD 4350 vs ATi Radeon HD 3650

now based on numbers http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=585&card2=554

tjhe 3650 seems to blowthe 4350 outta the water.. but the 4350 is a 512 mb card while the 3650 is a 256 mb card


any input or experience with these cards would b much appreciated

Wraith
06-26-2009, 02:11 PM
What will you be using the computer for?

Critical
06-26-2009, 02:15 PM
With a 128bit bus and DDR3 v-ram I would choose 3650.

Xaroxantu Zero
06-26-2009, 02:21 PM
Stuffing a large amount of RAM into a low-end graphics card is pointless, in my opinion, as video RAM is meant for storing larger textures rendered at a high screen resolution. If the graphics card doesn't even have the raw processing power to render a game at a high resolution (I'm talking about over 1024x768), then all the video RAM it has is useless.

There has to be a balance between raw power and memory storage. A shitty card like a HD4350 doesn't even need 512MB of RAM, as there's no chance you will be playing any games released in the past year at a resolution higher than 800x600 without dropping way below 30fps.

If I were you, I would pick the computer that has a lower price tag, then buy yourself a real (http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/PID-MX23015(ME).aspx) graphics card (http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/PID-MX23346(ME).aspx).

clem24
06-26-2009, 02:25 PM
First off, what is your budget? 2nd, why would you add a vid card from DELL?? Configure the Dell with the most basic options. Then anything thereafter, add it yourself. If you can fix cars, you can upgrade a computer. Especially with a vid card. Pop open the dell, put in a new vid card, you're done.

And both vid cards you listed are complete pieces of shit. I bought an 8800GS off a beyonder for $60 that leave them in the dust.

snoop101
06-26-2009, 02:34 PM
This will help you alot. Read it fully and completely.

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2347388,00.asp

sh0ko
06-26-2009, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by Wraith
What will you be using the computer for?

gaming =)

and clem uve got a point for sure

snoop101
06-26-2009, 02:57 PM
Go to Memory express and grab one.

Also if you post your computer setup right now it will help people recommend a card.

sh0ko
06-26-2009, 03:06 PM
^ i will definetly do that when im ready to purchase within the next few weeks here.. im still debating.. my brothers very knowledgable with computers but isnt too keen on the gaming side of them.. so i will seek help here very soon

Wraith
06-26-2009, 04:12 PM
As mentioned earlier, whats your budget? You can probably put one together yourself (or let memex do it) with superior specs while staying on budget :)

snoop101
06-26-2009, 04:15 PM
Really it all depends on your computer. If you have a core 2 duo or higher with 4 gb ram and a decent MB then a nice $250 card with 512mb and higher would be good, but you may have a P4 still with a gig of ram then that card wont really help you.

So like everyone else including me in this post has said. Post your current spec so we know what advice to give.

sh0ko
06-26-2009, 04:16 PM
well my budget in reality for a full computer is a little less than a thousand!!! (with or without an hd monitor)
i was interested in a quad core!!!

i hear theyre pretty decent nowadays

and i am DONE with TOSHIBAS and HP;s.. these computers have given me nightmares

snoop101
06-26-2009, 04:21 PM
Go to Memory express. Tell them listen Im looking for a gaming computer in the $1000 mark. I dont need any stupid extra crap and dont want to go to cheap on the graphics card. They should be able to put a package together for you.

Get maybe 2 packages first.

Also quad cores are nice, but for game a duo core is still best as there is only a few games out there that can take advantage of the quad.

Your going to have to take a hit on something if you want a decent machine for a grand. I would get a 19" monitor thats made for gaming to cut down the cost as some monitors can be up around the $400-$500 alone.

KRyn
06-26-2009, 04:22 PM
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/geforce-gtx-radeon,review-31608.html


Good read and it will help you make your decision.

sh0ko
06-29-2009, 09:42 AM
Originally posted by snoop101
Go to Memory express. Tell them listen Im looking for a gaming computer in the $1000 mark. I dont need any stupid extra crap and dont want to go to cheap on the graphics card. They should be able to put a package together for you.

Get maybe 2 packages first.

Also quad cores are nice, but for game a duo core is still best as there is only a few games out there that can take advantage of the quad.

Your going to have to take a hit on something if you want a decent machine for a grand. I would get a 19" monitor thats made for gaming to cut down the cost as some monitors can be up around the $400-$500 alone.

ty

and ty kryn
very helpful

im not gonna buy a computer.. im in the market for a tv as well and as just gonna hook up my computer to the tv

scary_perry
06-29-2009, 10:25 AM
I know a few people with the 4830 who are very happy. Its just a bit over $100 if you can find one and does not need too much power.

n1zm0
06-29-2009, 10:36 AM
Originally posted by Xaroxantu Zero
If I were you, I would pick the computer that has a lower price tag, then buy yourself a real (http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/PID-MX23015(ME).aspx) graphics card (http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/PID-MX23346(ME).aspx).

i have a 512 9800GT in my Qosmio, it hasnt had a problem for any games what so ever, pretty much every single FPS released in the past 2-3 years i've played with the GPU on high settings, keep in mind that to run certain GPUs you need certain pwr requirements as kind of mentioned above, so take into consideration when choosing your PSU as well.

clem24
06-30-2009, 07:39 AM
Originally posted by snoop101
Go to Memory express. Tell them listen Im looking for a gaming computer in the $1000 mark. I dont need any stupid extra crap and dont want to go to cheap on the graphics card. They should be able to put a package together for you.

This is NOT always true. If you wait for the right deal, you can score an excellent system from Dell complete with O/S that is cheaper than anything that you will ever be able to source from MemEx. And it arrives fully configured and assembled. One of the strengths of Dell systems are that they are dead silent, which is not always easy to achieve.

In any case, when you catch one of these systems, just go with the most basic setup and don't add any components (this is where they make all their money back).

As for the Dual vs. Quad argument, I am in the boat where if you can afford it, get a fast Quad, like the Q9550. In terms of pure horsepower and O/C ability, the duals are the way to go, but... It has been proven that CPUs have much less influence on gaming than a good vid card, and not everyone wants to O/C (like me). But once something does take advantage of Quad (like Photoshop), it can easily leave a dual in the dust (i.e. PS filters can run twice as fast). I know this sounds contradictory. But I guess my point is, get the vid card you want first (I think the GTX 275 is probably the best deal going for around $200 on sale). Then budget for CPU accordingly.

Critical
06-30-2009, 08:28 AM
Originally posted by clem24


This is NOT always true. If you wait for the right deal, you can score an excellent system from Dell complete with O/S that is cheaper than anything that you will ever be able to source from MemEx. And it arrives fully configured and assembled. One of the strengths of Dell systems are that they are dead silent, which is not always easy to achieve.

In any case, when you catch one of these systems, just go with the most basic setup and don't add any components (this is where they make all their money back).

As for the Dual vs. Quad argument, I am in the boat where if you can afford it, get a fast Quad, like the Q9550. In terms of pure horsepower and O/C ability, the duals are the way to go, but... It has been proven that CPUs have much less influence on gaming than a good vid card, and not everyone wants to O/C (like me). But once something does take advantage of Quad (like Photoshop), it can easily leave a dual in the dust (i.e. PS filters can run twice as fast). I know this sounds contradictory. But I guess my point is, get the vid card you want first (I think the GTX 275 is probably the best deal going for around $200 on sale). Then budget for CPU accordingly.

Although I agree with the Dell comment, they are just not worth it in the long run. Buying a customized PC from memory express leaves room for you to upgrade as new technology gets introduced.

Same idea with overclocking. If hes likes to play games then he wants to overclock to get the best performance, but you cannot overclock Dell processors unless you do the motherboard bypass trick.

Go on Memory Express' site and goto System Config. I am sure you can build a fast PC under $1000.

snoop101
06-30-2009, 08:38 AM
I agree with both of you. I been building computers since the 386's and used to write programs on a vic 20 (woohoo tape cassette). Anyways I agree you can get some killer deals at Dell when they have them on. I used to work for Dell doing sales and yes there are some really good deals, especially on laptops. At the same time you can do much with the Bios in terms of OC'ing and such. The parts they put in are decent still and depending out what you buy you can get some really nice warrenty. The upside to Memory express is that you can buy the parts you want. If you want an Asus MB you get one. With that you can buy a MB that you can OC till the cows come home. You know the ram can handle the OC because you got the good gaming ram. The other side is that you will pay a bit more and the fact that maybe you dont even want to OC.

So as you can see they both have there pros and cons. Which ever you pick do your homework. Lots of smart computer techs on Beyond and tons of info on both Toms hardware and Extreme tech.

clem24
06-30-2009, 09:46 AM
Originally posted by Critical


Although I agree with the Dell comment, they are just not worth it in the long run. Buying a customized PC from memory express leaves room for you to upgrade as new technology gets introduced.

Well what do you mean by long run though? I've been building PCs for myself ever since getting an XT (the only computer we've ever bought pre-assembled, from Eaton's of all places LOL). Lately, I've been upgrading bits and pieces instead of all at once (i.e. one day I'll discover a good deal on a case, and I get a new case, or I see a good deal on a processor or PSU and decide I want one of those). Aren't Dell towers basically the same as any computer out there? I think I'll have to do a whole system upgrade when it's time to go to i7, DDR3, and BTX. So really, I think the upgrade argument is almost irrelevant now.

As far as O/C'ing, I don't know... I don't see the value in it (cause you're spending so much more on stuff like better RAM) yet it gives you such a seemingly small increase in frame rates. Unless you start doing really hardcore stuff like going 1-2GHz over and using water cooling, etc.. But then that's a whole new can of worms. Whereas you're just better off getting a nicer vid card, and the speed increase is usually quite significant.

In any case, not sure what kind of hardcore gaming Shoko was intending to do since his original spec called for a 4350/equivalent.

Anyway, my point is, for all of you that only go for the MemEx/custom system route, you should actually open your minds a bit and consider recommending pre-configured systems, such as Dell. It used to be that custom built computers were usually cheaper and higher quality, but nowadays, pretty much everything comes from the same place, have the same components, and very often, people overlook the fact that a Dell system will include the O/S and forget to price this out with their MemEx system.

For me, I will probably continue to build systems, but for a friend (if they ask me, they're usually not knowledgeable about computers), then I would easily recommend getting a Dell system, that comes with support, etc...

sh0ko
06-30-2009, 01:09 PM
mostly im trying to run diablo ii, new battlefield and dantes inferno and sc ii at fairly high specs

pricing one out at memex seems about the same $ as a dell .. if not more expensive but i can defietnyl c the higher grade parts

n1zm0
06-30-2009, 01:39 PM
^ battlefield 2 and 2142? or.. heroes? lol

you wont need much to run BF2142 on max, some 256s will do it no problem, i played BF2/2142 on my dell pc with an EVGA 256 (forgot which model) for a good 2 years on high settings.

2142 isnt really new btw lol

sh0ko
06-30-2009, 02:30 PM
^ nono bf is coming out with another pc game are they not?!

and dantes inferno looks like a power hungry typa guy

sc ii...im sure a decnt comptuer can run this smoothly

diablo ii looks power hungry as well

snoop101
06-30-2009, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by sh0ko


diablo ii looks power hungry as well

I think he means Diablo 3. Cause you can run Diablo 2 on a old P2

alloroc
06-30-2009, 03:06 PM
Go here ..

http://voodoo.ca/#/productsfirebird

http://www.shopping.hp.com/voodoo?jumpid=re_r602_voodoo/voodoo/boutique/psg/products

You won't be obsolete for about 5-6 years so you'll make your money back in the long term.

snoop101
06-30-2009, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by alloroc
Go here ..

http://voodoo.ca/#/productsfirebird

http://www.shopping.hp.com/voodoo?jumpid=re_r602_voodoo/voodoo/boutique/psg/products

You won't be obsolete for about 5-6 years so you'll make your money back in the long term.

I like Voodoo, but since HP got them i dunno. Im not a fan of anything HP/Compaq

If you got money for a voodoo go with a Dell XPS or even a Alianware.

OR just have memory express make you a NICE fricken machine.

If you actually were reading what the OP said is that he cant afford a high end machine.

clem24
06-30-2009, 03:38 PM
LOL voodoo is still around??? Jeez they've been around since the 90's and I remember they were they first company to have the 3DFX Voodoo add-on boards (anyone remember those beasts?). And their PCs were something like $3-4,000+ and EVERYONE drooled over them and they always had ads in the Computer Paper with that little voodoo character... I always thought that's what the company was named after as well (3DFX).

alloroc
06-30-2009, 03:41 PM
^ Pay now pay later. A high end machine will last you longer - not becasue of any reliability issues most PC's are the same - they have the same parts. The extended life is obsolecence. You can have this machine a long time before considering an upgrade.

alloroc
06-30-2009, 03:43 PM
Originally posted by clem24
LOL voodoo is still around??? Jeez they've been around since the 90's and I remember they were they first company to have the 3DFX Voodoo add-on boards (anyone remember those beasts?). And their PCs were something like $3-4,000+ and EVERYONE drooled over them and they always had ads in the Computer Paper with that little voodoo character... I always thought that's what the company was named after as well (3DFX).

I bout one of the first machines off those guys. I think was just Raul and Mike in the back of Uncle Nickeys.

Critical
06-30-2009, 03:44 PM
Originally posted by clem24


Well what do you mean by long run though? I've been building PCs for myself ever since getting an XT (the only computer we've ever bought pre-assembled, from Eaton's of all places LOL). Lately, I've been upgrading bits and pieces instead of all at once (i.e. one day I'll discover a good deal on a case, and I get a new case, or I see a good deal on a processor or PSU and decide I want one of those). Aren't Dell towers basically the same as any computer out there? I think I'll have to do a whole system upgrade when it's time to go to i7, DDR3, and BTX. So really, I think the upgrade argument is almost irrelevant now.

As far as O/C'ing, I don't know... I don't see the value in it (cause you're spending so much more on stuff like better RAM) yet it gives you such a seemingly small increase in frame rates. Unless you start doing really hardcore stuff like going 1-2GHz over and using water cooling, etc.. But then that's a whole new can of worms. Whereas you're just better off getting a nicer vid card, and the speed increase is usually quite significant.

In any case, not sure what kind of hardcore gaming Shoko was intending to do since his original spec called for a 4350/equivalent.


Dell offers decent parts, but nothing special. Their motherboards are cheap and don't offer all the features like that of an Asus board would. I thought swapping in a new processor into a Dell motherboard is not possible because Dell restricts what processors their boards can handle? (Unless they changed it just recently :nut: ) Another issue is the powersupply. Dell gives you a pathetic 300W powersupply with your build, unless you get a high end graphics card, when you can get a cheap 1000W and not worry about PSU upgrading.

Overclocking is a huge increase in performance, I dont understand how you don't agree? Maybe you're not doing it effectively, or you've never done it on the right chip? There are old intel chips for $100 at memory express that are only 2.XGhz (core2duo) that you can overclock it to 3.5-4.0Ghz and spend 1/5 of the price than you would otherwise. (E5200 I believe) Sure you lose FSB speeds and you increase heat, but with the $600 you save you can buy 3 fans.

snoop101
06-30-2009, 03:55 PM
I do agree with OC'ing is the best way to go. You just need a good MB and cooling system.

I OC my e6400 to 3 gig and it runs smooth and I been doing that since I bought it.

If you can make a decent machine and dont need a monitor then go with Memory Express. If your on a budget and are worried about warrenty and maybe even financing it then go with Dell.