Nikon 2009/2010 lineup supposedly leaked?

[AccentAE86]

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/07/entire-nikon-2009-2010-dslr-product-roadmap-leaked/

Interesting. Most of these leaks and rumours and false.... but a 37 page document? That's a little excessive for a hoax.

But the strangest one... a DX Nikkor 60-95 F/2G VR

What an interesting lens. That is almost like having an 85mm and 135mm F/2 prime in one lens?! That would be neat

[mboldt]

I wonder why the hell they would make that lens a DX lens... Interesting. I'm going to read through it now.

Thanks for posting.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally posted by mboldt
I wonder why the hell they would make that lens a DX lens...


Likely because a 60-95 f/2 FX would be the size of the moon. ;) I have my reservations on the validity of the roadmap, but we'll see.

[C4S]

D3000??

That is kind of odd .. since it is called 3000, must be higher model then D5000 ... but D5000 and D90, are so close already ...

D300s that one, make sense ..


D700 X ... OUCH OUCH .. that would be a killer! but that would affect D3X ( and D3 ) sale .... unlike Canon, D700 is far better then 5DII in everything, but resolution ... and if this D700x also come with HD ... and assume it will be about the same price as the 5DII and A900 ... :dunno:

Damn .. may be time to sell my D700 now .. :banghead:



Lots of odd lens .. 14-28 F3.5-4.5 would be awesome!!!!!!

Still, not much they can "improve" anymore ... :eek:

[mboldt]

If this is legit, Nikon is going to be absolutely killing it lol
Some weird ranges in lenses...

[Bukka]

D300s makes me excited hahah.
My chance to pick up a regular D300 for cheap lolol

[HiSpec]

god damn... instead of buying my D90, i should've waited for the D300 now D300s is coming out!!!

[Gibson]

Hmm, an updated version of the 70-200 f/2.8. About time.

Also figured it was about time that some of the cameras started using CF and SD slots too.

[AccentAE86]

It's interesting in any case. If they actually DO make a F/2 DX zoom, I could only hope canon would do the same.


I have some issues about the validity of this too, as they have the D3X to be replaced in 2010? Only two years after it was released? Nikon doesn't usually replace their pro bodies that quickly.

[Mitsu3000gt]

The map is supposedly fake from what I've read, even though several things on it are plausable (still no way to know for sure though). I think Thom Hogan has confirmed the D3000 though. About half of that list is simply logical progression of what is already available and not really secret.

Nikon themselves accidently posted a screen shot of a D300s LCD and took it down from their website immediately afterwards so I suspect that is the next announcement, likely in August.

[clem24]

17-60 f/2.8 VR..... Hmm...... :thumbsup: If they can make this the size of the current Tamron 17-50, that would be sweet.

[blitz]

The Camera Store has some new Nikon annoucements on it's homepage:

D300s
D3000
AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II
AF-S NIKKOR 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II

[C4S]

www.dpreview.com

18-200VR II .. kind of weird, since the VRI is so good ....

However, this is how they can sell more, and make more money!!

Built in TILT function on D3000 is cool, good for me, who doesn't know how to PS... :D

[bwling]

Good to see that Nikon has addressed the zoom creep issue on the 18-200.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Nikon is so bad at keeping secrets that I think they may be doing it on purpose to start hype haha. The specs for D300s, D3000, and 70-200 VR II have been out for quite some time. The only one I didn't see coming was the new 18-200VR.

[blitz]

Of course I bought a 18-200 on Monday.

[bwling]

^ I'm assuming it was a private sale? Otherwise, why not just return it?

[Go4Long]

the D300S seems cool, I wouldn't use the video mode, so I don't know if it's worth it to upgrade from the D300, the dual card slots would be fun though :D

[Gibson]

Originally posted by bwling
Good to see that Nikon has addressed the zoom creep issue on the 18-200.

Holy god, this irritates me. It's impossible to shoot anything straight up or down. I wonder what would happen if I send it to Nikon for servicing?

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by Gibson


Holy god, this irritates me. It's impossible to shoot anything straight up or down. I wonder what would happen if I send it to Nikon for servicing?

I'm quite sure there are some DIY fixes for that zoom creep if it bothers you that much.

[quazimoto]

mleh so do all Nikon's plans change when Canon introduces a 1Ds Mark IV with a medium format sensor?

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally posted by quazimoto
mleh so do all Nikon's plans change when Canon introduces a 1Ds Mark IV with a medium format sensor?

Hahahahahaha, MF sensor in the 1Ds, hahahahaha

[AccentAE86]

Originally posted by BerserkerCatSplat


Hahahahahaha, MF sensor in the 1Ds, hahahahaha

lol, yeah that will never happen, unless they come out with a whole new lens mount and lineup of lenses.

But wow, dual card slots on the D300s! That is the only feature I wish my D700 had besides a REAL ISO100. They really are making pro bodies in small form factors. I wish canon would follow suit. I hate the size of the 1-series.

[quazimoto]

I dunno the rumors are stepping more and more to reality. The big rumor is a 36MP 1Ds Mark IV.

I think dual memory card slots should be included in any pro or semi-pro model. That is the one big fail with the 5D Mark II.

[AccentAE86]

Originally posted by quazimoto
I dunno the rumors are stepping more and more to reality. The big rumor is a 36MP 1Ds Mark IV.

I think dual memory card slots should be included in any pro or semi-pro model. That is the one big fail with the 5D Mark II.

People start rumours about anything. I'd be absolutely blown away if the 1Ds mark IV (if they don't skip IV and go straight to V) has a sensor larger than 35mm format. It would be utterly stupid to do so.

[quazimoto]

Not necessarily. If they were to keep the price relatively the same they'd start taking sales from some of the larger medium format companies. the problem being that most medium format cameras excel at image quality but have questionable performance and limited lens selection.

As it is they'll release a new system and you'll see more people jump from nikon to canon. then a year later nikon releases new equipment and people do the dance again. Always seems to be a small number of people that do this.

I know last year the discussion was circling around a 29mp camera that was FF. There has been a lot of discussion lately though if they are eventually going to evolve into either square sensors or full medium format sensors.

The problem is virtually nobody has a realistic need for these cameras. I'm one of these people that would be just 100% fine with another 22mp camera simply with increased performance. I don't get why they don't just concentrate on that instead of a megapixel war lol.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally posted by quazimoto
Not necessarily. If they were to keep the price relatively the same they'd start taking sales from some of the larger medium format companies. the problem being that most medium format cameras excel at image quality but have questionable performance and limited lens selection.



The same price? How? MF sensors are far more expensive primarily because they require far greater amounts of silicon, and that's not something that can be price-reduced. Also, you can fit fewer large, square chips on a single round silicon wafer, so again the price goes up because they have to pay for the whole wafer. And, the larger the sensor area the greater the chance of a silicon imperfection, so you need to pay more money for more silicon and then even more to make up for the bad ones. Add in that Canon would have to make a whole new lens lineup (since the only lenses they have that cover MF would be the TS ones) and there's absolutely no reason that the 1Ds IV would be MF. It's a stupid, baseless rumor and the most basic of logic wrecks it.



Originally posted by quazimoto

The problem is virtually nobody has a realistic need for these cameras.

Yeah? Funny, Hasselblad, Phase One, and Leaf seem to be doing just fine making 30 to 50 MP medium format backs and cameras. The pros who need them buy them. The amateurs who don't need them but wish they could afford them make up rumors about Canon making a MF SLR.

[quazimoto]

This is like using the same argument people were making when pentium processors first came out saying it would be impossible to make faster processors for the forseeable future. I think in all reality the lenses they have today are really getting pushed to the limit. when we start to see nikon and canon wanting to push the 30mp barrier the current glass won't suffice.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally posted by quazimoto
This is like using the same argument people were making when pentium processors first came out saying it would be impossible to make faster processors for the forseeable future.


Clearly you lack an understanding of silicon-based manufacturing processes. Processors got cheaper mainly because improvements in manu tech meant that each processor needed less silicon by being able to make smaller and smaller chips as nanometer-area accuracy improved. This reduction in silicon consumption cannot happen with camera sensors as the silicon needs to be the size of the sensor. Unless we find a magic way to make silicon far cheaper (unlikely) or discover a new non-silicon substrate (likely at some point years in the future but not in time to realease the 1DsIV, obviously), MF sensors are going to be MUCH more expensive than smaller ones. Period.




I think in all reality the lenses they have today are really getting pushed to the limit. when we start to see nikon and canon wanting to push the 30mp barrier the current glass won't suffice. [/B]

Current pro glass seems to be holding up fine on the D3X, is a 5MP increase suddenly going to render lenses useless? I doubt it. Further upon that, why do you think that would suddenly drive them to compete in the tiny MF market?

[mboldt]

Originally posted by quazimoto
I dunno the rumors are stepping more and more to reality. The big rumor is a 36MP 1Ds Mark IV.

I think dual memory card slots should be included in any pro or semi-pro model. That is the one big fail with the 5D Mark II.

IMO that's the smallest failure of the 5D Mark II LOL

Also there isn't going to be a larger than 35mm sized sensor in a DSLR... I can't believe people are thinking that is what they are going to do

[mboldt]

Originally posted by quazimoto
Not necessarily. If they were to keep the price relatively the same they'd start taking sales from some of the larger medium format companies. the problem being that most medium format cameras excel at image quality but have questionable performance and limited lens selection.

As it is they'll release a new system and you'll see more people jump from nikon to canon. then a year later nikon releases new equipment and people do the dance again. Always seems to be a small number of people that do this.

I know last year the discussion was circling around a 29mp camera that was FF. There has been a lot of discussion lately though if they are eventually going to evolve into either square sensors or full medium format sensors.

The problem is virtually nobody has a realistic need for these cameras. I'm one of these people that would be just 100% fine with another 22mp camera simply with increased performance. I don't get why they don't just concentrate on that instead of a megapixel war lol.

They aren't even going to be able to compete with the current medium format companies. Canon is already divebombing as it is. They have a hell of a lot of other improvements to make to their existing system before going into a new format. Nikon already spoke about going Medium Format and they said they'd leave it to the guys who already do it, there were the "Mx" rumors flying around early this year.

How are 35mm lenses going to react when you put them on a much larger size sensor?

Medium format cameras do not have questionable performance at all...

You my friend get a royal face palm from me :facepalm:

[quazimoto]

I don't know if you call it divebombing when their market shares are virtually equal and both flagship cameras have virtually the same quality.

I'd just be happy to see Nikon making their own sensors instead of letting Sony do it.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally posted by mboldt

Also there isn't going to be a larger than 35mm sized sensor in a DSLR... I can't believe people are thinking that is what they are going to do

Now, I wouldn't quite go that far, seeing as Leica just released a larger-than-35mm DSLR, the S2. At the low, low, price of $23,000, body-only! No, >35mm DSLRs can and will happen, just not from manufacturers heavily invested (in both time and money) in the 35mm market.

[clem24]

Originally posted by mboldt
Nikon already spoke about going Medium Format and they said they'd leave it to the guys who already do it

I agree here but the only fault is that Nikon also at one point, made a similar statement regarding FF sensors...

[quazimoto]

No it will happen eventually this is only a matter of time. You make that $23,000 sound expansive. I remember when a 2 megapixel Nikon body cost $5,000.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally posted by quazimoto
No it will happen eventually this is only a matter of time. You make that $23,000 sound expansive. I remember when a 2 megapixel Nikon body cost $5,000.


Only a matter of time? How much time? 10 years? 20? Unless you overcome the silicon problem, the price stays up.

[AccentAE86]

They're not gonna go MF for the foreseeable future.

I mean, back in the film days when sensor construction wasn't a cost factor at all, Canon still did not make medium format. (At least nothing that went past concept/prototype) They did not introduce a new lens lineup for larger film.

Lund makes small fishing boats.

That doesn't mean they'll start making cruiseliners because the technology to make them is available to them.

[quazimoto]

It's nothing to do with they can or will or could they. It just depends on how far the marketing hype war will go between canon and nikon as they try to fight for market share which right now is pretty much dead even. Granted when I was at the super bowl I would easily say 80% of the photographers I saw were using Canons.

I'm expecting to see the 1D Mark IV in the fall and the 1Ds Mark IV in February.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally posted by quazimoto
It's nothing to do with they can or will or could they. It just depends on how far the marketing hype war will go between canon and nikon as they try to fight for market share which right now is pretty much dead even.

It has EVERYTHING to do with how feasible the camera production is. People balked at paying $8,000 for a D3X, how many people are going to actually drop $20,000+ for a camera with a larger sensor? How many new lenses would they need to make to cover that sensor? How many people would buy both the camera, and the new lenses? No camera company is going to sell its equipment at a massive loss, "marketing hype" or not. The market for sub-35mm is far larger than that of 35mm. The market for MF is fer smaller than even that. Why would two companies who have massive market shares in a large existing market spend massive amounts of money to develop new hardware for a tiny market that already has fierce competition by companies that have been doing MF forever?

[quazimoto]

Simply because they don't have to spend the massive amounts of money you speak of. With the current rate of increase in size of images within 5 years we'll be seeing 50mp cameras from nikon or canon. As I was saying they are already at the point where a lot of the glass will need to be replaced to newer versions to keep up to higher end models.

They aren't necessarily talk about medium format, there has been a lot of discussion regarding a variety of sensor sizes that could be adapted.

Personally Nikon and Canon being so close to each other in terms of market share and quality is great for DSLR owners. It pushes both companies to continually improve in order to keep that market share.

[AccentAE86]

Have you been indoctrinated by those rumour webpages like http://www.canonrumors.com/ or something?

They're not gonna abandon an already winning formula. I really don't understand why you're so adamant that they'll bring out a whole new format and lens system. Contrary to what you might think, it DOES take MASSIVE amounts of research and development to create a whole new imaging format. It's easier and much cheaper to update an existing design in a familiar format than to create whole new camera systems from scratch.

Even if, say Nikon were to bring out a MF format sensor and lens system, it would be very possible that Canon wouldn't even follow as Nikon would be making a product in which canon doesn't directly compete with. Like Nikon doesn't really make photocopiers, and Canon doesn't make eyeglasses.

[mboldt]

Originally posted by BerserkerCatSplat


Now, I wouldn't quite go that far, seeing as Leica just released a larger-than-35mm DSLR, the S2. At the low, low, price of $23,000, body-only! No, >35mm DSLRs can and will happen, just not from manufacturers heavily invested (in both time and money) in the 35mm market.

Sorry I should have said, I don't think Nikon/Canon will be going MF. I saw the Leica though =P looks crazy.

[C4S]

And I think that $23900 for the S2 . is US $ ... so ~ $30K cad, ( plus $2000 for hand grip ) ...

Spending $30K plus on a body is already one issue .. but buying all new lens ... easy .. another $50K ... that is another big problem ..

But .. when some people can spend $1/4 on a PP or AP .. someone will spend $50K plus on a camera.

I do agree, in ~ 5 yr, we might see 40- 50MP from a Canon or Nikon, ( whatever 1DS MK IV by then or D5X )

I still use my JUST 13MP 5D more then my 22MP 5DII ... as my "NOSE" isn't that good anyway ... ;)

[quazimoto]

Yep the good thing with those 50mp super cameras is they'll make the 1Ds Mark III super cheap or at least in my eyes. It's all the camera I need right now. So I guess a little over a decade ago when they were talking about digital sensors it was all hogwash as well.

I'm sure 5 years ago some people were predicting 4.0 GHZ computers so I don't see why its unreasonable to assume canon and nikon won't eventually have something in 50-100 megapixel cameras.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally posted by quazimoto


I'm sure 5 years ago some people were predicting 4.0 GHZ computers so I don't see why its unreasonable to assume canon and nikon won't eventually have something in 50-100 megapixel cameras.

What? We weren't talking about them making high-resolution sensors, we were talking about making medium format sensors. Do you understand the difference?

[quazimoto]

The two go hand in hand. There are limitations that need to be recognized. I mean seriously how many pixels can they cram. You think they are going to make 50mp cameras using a 35mm equiv body.

It is only a matter of time before both Canon and Nikon start making a higher level of glass. Things tend to evolve as it is. The current DSLRs have been running for roughly 10 years now. Eventually one of the major DSLR players is going to realize the potential for something bigger.

I mean if they could make lets just say a 1D Mark? with a 1.3x crop at 40-50 megapixels with the same iso levels and noise levels of current cameras while allowing it to shoot 5-10 FPS who in the right mind wouldn't buy the camera.

My point is in the next few years things will change drastically. I'm pretty sure that is why they have delayed the release of a 1D Mark IV and 1Ds Mark IV. Problem being right now only a few of the canon prime lenses could support a mega camera.

[Gibson]

Originally posted by quazimoto
The two go hand in hand. There are limitations that need to be recognized. I mean seriously how many pixels can they cram. You think they are going to make 50mp cameras using a 35mm equiv body.

It is only a matter of time before both Canon and Nikon start making a higher level of glass. Things tend to evolve as it is. The current DSLRs have been running for roughly 10 years now. Eventually one of the major DSLR players is going to realize the potential for something bigger.

I mean if they could make lets just say a 1D Mark? with a 1.3x crop at 40-50 megapixels with the same iso levels and noise levels of current cameras while allowing it to shoot 5-10 FPS who in the right mind wouldn't buy the camera.

My point is in the next few years things will change drastically. I'm pretty sure that is why they have delayed the release of a 1D Mark IV and 1Ds Mark IV. Problem being right now only a few of the canon prime lenses could support a mega camera.


Um...why would people drop that sort of money of a 40-50 MP camera that performs exactly the same as the current ones. The current 1D is a 1.28X crop.

If I understand this correctly, you're saying that professionals are going to buy a 1D Mark<X> that costs boat loads of money more along with all the extra lenses that you're saying will exist in the future? Because they wouldn't be in their right mind if they didn't drop tonnes of cash for THIRTY additional megapixels?? If you're a professional, hopefully you'll understand the merits of not wasting money on more mega pickels, in a camera that has identical performance to the current 1D MkIII.





Originally posted by BeserkerCatSplat
No camera company is going to sell its equipment at a massive loss, "marketing hype" or not.

Haha, not a camera in any way, but Volkswagen did this with the Veyron. Can't see Nikon or Canon doing it though.

[C4S]

M F sensor from Canon/Nikon ... I still dont see a greenlight ..



Put it this way, what is more is more important to Nikon/Canon?

Care about 1% or 2% people? or MAKING MONEY??

Are they making more money on selling D3X / 1Ds III or 1000D/450D/500D and D60/D5000/D90 now??

I think more and more small sensor DSLRs are coming, ( 4/3, I have to give them credit!)

MF from Nikon/Canon .. :zzz:

Well, look how much is the S2 now .. easy $100K for body and some lens .... OK, it is LEICA .. so even Canon / Nikon can make it half price .. $50K ... :dunno:

Don't get me wrong, I would love to get a MF, even just film.:)
(of course, I would love to see a under $20K MF system from Canon or nikon .. :D as I do believe, BIGGER sensor->better IQ, more MP? no big deal )