SAIT Bachelor of Applied Information Systems program

[br3tth]

Just curious if anyone on here has taken this program, or is taking it in the fall?

Good program?

[PeterGTiR]

Did you take a diploma program prior to entering the program?

I completed a Computer Technology diploma program at SAIT a while back and I thought it was a waste of two years. It's most likely specific to this particular program though.

The programming languages they teach and the type of job that you can get with a CT diploma are two different things. No one company is going to hire a programmer with a diploma - most of the people who enroll are young and will be less likely to be aware of this. SAIT will process their applications as long as they have the prerequisites. There probably are situations where young people have been hired for a programming position with a diploma, but most people will start off at a help desk. The company I work for now really does not recognize IT - it's very unlikely for someone in IT to be promoted to a manager.

I then worked at CP Rail for a work term and all I did was compare output logs for database transfers.


I realize that the degree has more education and a little bit of work experience, but I would not recommend SAIT for a programming related diploma/degree.

[Alterac]

SAIT provides the basis of education for you build off of, if you do not get a job programming, or advance in your career, its the lack of drive, and skills.

I took the CNT program, and thats it, then I went to work, got promoted every 6-8months, and now lead a team of techs.

Drive and willingness to learn outside of work will get you alot farther than just some peice of paper. But hte paper gets your resume looked at, then from the time you're hired, its up to you to succeed.

[PeterGTiR]

Computer Technology and CNT are two separate programs. You never went through the Computer Technology program and you aren't in any position to say that it's because of a lack of drive or skills that I never pursued a help desk job any further.

CNT may very well teach other things that prepare you better for a CNT job. The CT program lacks this. I'm happy that you're able to lead the help desk.

After the CT program, I took the Accounting program and that's it. Then I went to work, got promoted every 5 - 6 months, and now lead a team of accountants.

[Mibz]

Originally posted by PeterGTiR
Computer Technology and CNT are two separate programs. You never went through the Computer Technology program and you aren't in any position to say that it's because of a lack of drive or skills that I never pursued a help desk job any further.

CNT may very well teach other things that prepare you better for a CNT job. The CT program lacks this. I'm happy that you're able to lead the help desk.

After the CT program, I took the Accounting program and that's it. Then I went to work, got promoted every 5 - 6 months, and now lead a team of accountants. I was in the CT program for a semester before dropping out (due to my own lack of maturity) and went on to see the guys in my class getting development and coding jobs right out of the gate. One guy even went to Japan because of who he knew. These were the guys that liked what they did and wanted to be there though. I met a couple other guys who dropped out and one who just rode it out and was delivering pizzas despite his diploma.

Also, if you look at the recent grads of the IT program at SAIT you'll see that the people with the commitment and skills are getting jobs (which in itself is a feat these days) while the guys who just coasted along are complaining because they're bored at home all day.

I completely agree with Alterac. It's not the education, it's the people.

[br3tth]

I should have said right from the beginning, I was referring more specifically towards the network management stream..

I agree with the whole work experience over paper, but my current job ends in september, and rather then look for months for a job, I'm going to upgrade.

I'm hoping that this program is quite a bit more organized and promising then the IT program I just finished.

[Alterac]

Originally posted by PeterGTiR
Computer Technology and CNT are two separate programs. You never went through the Computer Technology program and you aren't in any position to say that it's because of a lack of drive or skills that I never pursued a help desk job any further.

I went through the cnt program, at the same time my best friend went throught the CT program. (So I was exposed to both, at the same time)

Granted, this was many years ago, and since then, I have heard all the programs have went downhill.

Accepting a helpdesk job, when you want to be a developer might not have been the correct direction.

I am glad you now found a career path that you enjoy and prosper in.

Mibz also hit the nail on the head with his observations.

But since this is about the BAIS not the preq diploma's we should move back on topic.

I have 2 friends that persued that program and both are fairly sucessful in the careers they chose. Im sure others on this board have also taken the applied degree and have some good opinions that they should post.

[cgyITguy]

I think ill weigh in on this, seeing as I'm a graduate of the CNT and BAIS (network management programs)....I can say without a doubt that I would not be enjoying the quality of life I do without taking these programs. It is absolutely worth it to take the additional 2 years and finish the bachelors program. I got a sweet job very shortly after graduating and have been there ever since.

That being said, it does take some hard work, dedication and drive to succeed no matter what you take. It is also a very good idea to supplement this education with certification and experience where ever you can get it.

I have the best job out of anybody I know, I make more money than anybody I know, I just bought a bigger house than anybody I know will likely have in the next 10 years. I travel the world and have a great time living life and I attribute ALL of it to taking these programs.

On a side note, I'm kinda sick of hearing all this dissing of sait and hearing about how great you are if you go to the U of C. Well let me tell you that most of the people I know graduating from the U of C are firmly in the unemployment lines.

So take this program, work hard and it DOES PAY OFF!!!

[mazdavirgin]

Originally posted by cgyITguy
On a side note, I'm kinda sick of hearing all this dissing of sait and hearing about how great you are if you go to the U of C. Well let me tell you that most of the people I know graduating from the U of C are firmly in the unemployment lines.

:dunno: My current company doesn't hire ANY developers who don't have degrees in computer science or engineering. Hell in all the companies I have worked in unless you had a degree you got to work desktop support. Then again maybe thats due to me working in the embedded field. However how you can lambast people for hating on SAIT/Devry and then you rant about how U of C grads don't get hired? :facepalm: My take on things is if you want to write code you really should get the proper university education as it will take you far further. Most companies perhaps unfairly don't hire developers that don't have university education.

[br3tth]

Thank you for the opinions.
I'm not taking the development stream, so that doesn't really affect me though.. I do see alot of people with just diplomas get stuck in deskside jobs, and although good experience that's not something I want to stay in longer then necessary.

Glad to hear someone took the program and enjoyed it.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by cgyITguy
I think ill weigh in on this, seeing as I'm a graduate of the CNT and BAIS (network management programs)....I can say without a doubt that I would not be enjoying the quality of life I do without taking these programs. It is absolutely worth it to take the additional 2 years and finish the bachelors program. I got a sweet job very shortly after graduating and have been there ever since.

That being said, it does take some hard work, dedication and drive to succeed no matter what you take. It is also a very good idea to supplement this education with certification and experience where ever you can get it.

I have the best job out of anybody I know, I make more money than anybody I know, I just bought a bigger house than anybody I know will likely have in the next 10 years. I travel the world and have a great time living life and I attribute ALL of it to taking these programs.

On a side note, I'm kinda sick of hearing all this dissing of sait and hearing about how great you are if you go to the U of C. Well let me tell you that most of the people I know graduating from the U of C are firmly in the unemployment lines.

So take this program, work hard and it DOES PAY OFF!!!

I went through the same route you did and I can vouch for every word said here. But working hard and having passion toward your job is almost as important as education.

[cgyITguy]

Originally posted by mazdavirgin


:dunno: My current company doesn't hire ANY developers who don't have degrees in computer science or engineering. Hell in all the companies I have worked in unless you had a degree you got to work desktop support. Then again maybe thats due to me working in the embedded field. However how you can lambast people for hating on SAIT/Devry and then you rant about how U of C grads don't get hired? :facepalm: My take on things is if you want to write code you really should get the proper university education as it will take you far further. Most companies perhaps unfairly don't hire developers that don't have university education.

Sad to hear that, however I wouldn't consider that only U of C counts as a proper education, and please do not group SAIT and Devry in the same catagory they are not the same. The reality is if you go to U of C, SAIT or Mt. Royal those are all "proper" educations. Each institute has programs that are difficult and worth while and each institute has programs that are easier and useless. I can guarantee that the BAIS program at SAIT is much harder and worth while than several programs at the U of C

[mazdavirgin]

Originally posted by cgyITguy
I can guarantee that the BAIS program at SAIT is much harder and worth while than several programs at the U of C

Care to elaborate? I looked through your program course and the course outlines I can't really say anything looked that comparable to the U of C. The program itself looks far more vocational like most courses offered at SAIT. I also don't quite understand why you object to comparisons to Devry? As far as I know both of theses schools are involved in vocational training.

In the end I don't really see how this matters. The U of C is not a vocational school and it mostly concerned with academics hence it draws a different crowd which arguably tends to draw the better students(Just like how you can find the better students in the calculus courses in high school). A stereotype/generalization perhaps but I think the admissions requirements for most of the programs speak for themselves. Better students doesn't mean that they are any better at their job or better people.

All I really wanted to communicate to people in this thread was that for developers as someone who has worked for a while in the trenches, you really should go for higher education. I have no qualms discussing with people why this is a better choice in the long run. I strongly feel that if you want to do serious software development you really should at minimum get a university degree. Additionally the whole game concentrations racket they have going on now is nothing but a money grab.

I would just like to close with I don't want anyone to take this as bashing of SAIT or any of their programs I simply want to shed some light into the whole issue to give upcoming students a little direction. Depending on your long term career goals I would closely examine what is the better option for your particular case. That can be either the vocational school route or the academic route.

[cgyITguy]

Originally posted by mazdavirgin

I also don't quite understand why you object to comparisons to Devry? As far as I know both of theses schools are involved in vocational training.


Huge difference, Devry has little - possibly no government subsidies. It isn't an accredited institution. There is no transferability, and many people have horror stories about their resume being thrown out just for going there. This may come to a surprise to you but you can transfer from sait to university even to complete a masters degree usually after only a small handful of bridging courses.

[interlude]

I was in the program but never finished. Ended up getting the job I was going to school for. Havent had the urge to go back, its been almost 4 years. I met alot of directors and executives from the conferences my boss sends me too. They are looking for technical experience over anything else. In fact, some of them did not like to hire newly graduated students since they have no experience in the real world whatsoever. They can have that degree from UofC but they dont have the necessary skill set to do the job they want them to do.

Does UofC offer more hands on training than SAIT? In the BAIS course, they have 1 full year of work experience before you can graduate.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by interlude
Does UofC offer more hands on training than SAIT? In the BAIS course, they have 1 full year of work experience before you can graduate.

Been through both program and I can say that U of C is theory and SAIT is actual practice.

I found an tech employee is more useful out of SAIT than UC 80% of the time. But U of C do produce a bit better coders on average (methodology, not languages).

SAIT prep you for using the Intel chip. UC prep you for making a Intel chip. That's the difference I can see.

[cgyITguy]

Originally posted by Xtrema


Been through both program and I can say that U of C is theory and SAIT is actual practice.

I found an tech employee is more useful out of SAIT than UC 80% of the time. But U of C do produce a bit better coders on average (methodology, not languages).

SAIT prep you for using the Intel chip. UC prep you for making a Intel chip. That's the difference I can see.

I would agree with that

[br3tth]

Originally posted by cgyITguy

This may come to a surprise to you but you can transfer from sait to university even to complete a masters degree usually after only a small handful of bridging courses.

U of C and Mount Royal are terrible to try and transfer to. Transfering to a degree program you get one semester for two years at SAIT. I applied to Mount Royal's new bachelor of computer information systems, and they wont give proper credit at all..

Looking at the course curriculum I should get like at least a year to a year and a half worth of credit... It's taken them since March to tell me that 2 courses qualify, and they wont know till i'm registered in 3rd or 4th year to give me more credit.

Both just want to get as much money as possible out of transfers, IMO.

[LOLzilla]

Originally posted by cgyITguy
I think ill weigh in on this, seeing as I'm a graduate of the CNT and BAIS (network management programs)....I can say without a doubt that I would not be enjoying the quality of life I do without taking these programs. It is absolutely worth it to take the additional 2 years and finish the bachelors program. I got a sweet job very shortly after graduating and have been there ever since.

That being said, it does take some hard work, dedication and drive to succeed no matter what you take. It is also a very good idea to supplement this education with certification and experience where ever you can get it.

I have the best job out of anybody I know, I make more money than anybody I know, I just bought a bigger house than anybody I know will likely have in the next 10 years. I travel the world and have a great time living life and I attribute ALL of it to taking these programs.

On a side note, I'm kinda sick of hearing all this dissing of sait and hearing about how great you are if you go to the U of C. Well let me tell you that most of the people I know graduating from the U of C are firmly in the unemployment lines.

So take this program, work hard and it DOES PAY OFF!!!

This x 2

You can read about a older members experience in the link below.

http://forums.beyond.ca/st/235101/it-security-it-bench-tech-salary-expectations/

[Mibz]

From what Coop told me, you've already got a decent job with potential for promotion so why are you considering more education?

[Recca168]

Originally posted by br3tth


U of C and Mount Royal are terrible to try and transfer to. Transfering to a degree program you get one semester for two years at SAIT. I applied to Mount Royal's new bachelor of computer information systems, and they wont give proper credit at all..

Looking at the course curriculum I should get like at least a year to a year and a half worth of credit... It's taken them since March to tell me that 2 courses qualify, and they wont know till i'm registered in 3rd or 4th year to give me more credit.

Both just want to get as much money as possible out of transfers, IMO.

I took a quick look at the curriculum too and they are very different. That's expected as Sait doesn't follow the academic approch used in universities so most of their courses don't correspond with anything offered at U of C.

If you transfer from Mt Royal to the U of C though it is much easier. When i was at the U of C there were some profs that taught the same course at both institutions.

But anyway if you've already completed 2 years at sait and want a degree the best route would be to finish the last two years there.

[br3tth]

Originally posted by Mibz
From what Coop told me, you've already got a decent job with potential for promotion so why are you considering more education?

For the position I'm going for, they won't be expanding till early 2010.

If I do get the job in January, I'll just go to part time, complete the last few courses, and apply to work practicum work to the job (which is allowed).

Also, I see alot of guys with diplomas get stuck in deskside positions, and the more successful employees have degrees.

I'm trying to avoid that situation as much as possible, so I may as well upgrade while I'm waiting.

[br3tth]

Originally posted by LOLzilla


This x 2

You can read about a older members experience in the link below.

http://forums.beyond.ca/st/235101/it-security-it-bench-tech-salary-expectations/

He didn't even finish the diploma program.

:facepalm:

[cgyITguy]

Originally posted by br3tth


U of C and Mount Royal are terrible to try and transfer to. Transfering to a degree program you get one semester for two years at SAIT.

Both just want to get as much money as possible out of transfers, IMO.


This is actually very true, and it is to get the most money out of you, it is also a superiority thing based on geographical location, it is common for institutions to try to discredit others within the same region, this is the same everywhere. Other institutions across Canada including the U of A are much more quicker to accommodate. Also, there are many across the world that also take transfer credit from SAIT.

[Mibz]

Originally posted by br3tth


For the position I'm going for, they won't be expanding till early 2010.

If I do get the job in January, I'll just go to part time, complete the last few courses, and apply to work practicum work to the job (which is allowed). Are you unhappy with your current job? If you turn your current job into a practicum they'll probably pay you a students wage and you won't end up any further ahead. As well, if you're getting a degree in networking I can see it being a colossal waste. I'd get certs instead. Self-paced study, cheaper and you can work full-time while doing it.


Also, I see alot of guys with diplomas get stuck in deskside positions, and the more successful employees have degrees.

I'm trying to avoid that situation as much as possible, so I may as well upgrade while I'm waiting. And by "stuck at deskside" do you mean "employed during an economic downturn 3 months out of college"? Cause it sounds to me like your expectations are a little high. If you're talking about experienced employees that have been there a few years, I assure you that their situation has little to nothing to do with their education. They're there because they don't have what it takes to move up.

As mentioned above, diploma programs tend to attract worse students, the people that just coast along. It does NOT mean that a good student and a good employee will suffer from not having a degree, especially in the non-development side of IT.

I think the two years of experience you get as a full-time employee and the ability and attitude you show during that time will be far more important than one extra year of education and a year of being paid $20 an hour.

[LOLzilla]

Originally posted by br3tth


He didn't even finish the diploma program.

:facepalm:

Read Toms-SC replies you goof

[Lex350]

Originally posted by br3tth
I should have said right from the beginning, I was referring more specifically towards the network management stream..

I agree with the whole work experience over paper, but my current job ends in september, and rather then look for months for a job, I'm going to upgrade.

I'm hoping that this program is quite a bit more organized and promising then the IT program I just finished.

A buddy took thei course and is doing very well for himself now. It was worth it for him.