Dogs and raw food diet

[z24_wheels]

Does anyone here feed their dog a raw food diet? I am getting a puppy in a few months and am gearing up to provide it the best care. My family has had dogs before when I was younger, but now that this is *my* dog and I am the sole provider, I really want to do the best for the little girl.

Does anyone have any links where they learned about raw food, or other diets? Are there any raw food friendly butchers or shops in town? Any information is appreciated, thanks!

[JC522]

go to tail blazers, we fed our dogs raw food. Nature's variety is the brand. We used to buy the medallions but it goes by quick and it gets pricey ($20+ per bag) We started to buy the $40 box and it comes with 6 huge tubes of the raw food and it lasts a lot longer

[cancer man]

See your Vet i think breed matters as well?

[94CoRd]

Originally posted by cancer man
See your Vet i think breed matters as well?

I've never heard of that...
I'd talk to the vet to see what should be included in your dogs diet.

A lot just comes from experience, and seeing how your dog reacts. It's taken a while now, but we've finally got our dogs diets down to a science.

[craigcd]

My dog was on raw food at one point- the dog will love it! It is a bit extra work and its pricey. I did read something at one point about a human risk of salmonela poisoning if the dog licks you after eating- not sure if this is true.

[z24_wheels]

Thanks for the info guys!

My breeder has a three year health garantee, but she voids it if I feed raw. I am still on the fence about it, but want to gather as much info as possible.

[Canmorite]

We've had our dog on it for about 6 years. Great food for them, less to pick up, shiny coat, no crap in it like some of the dry food. I'd say go for it.

[AndyL]

There's something to be said for the quality - but yeah, definitely follow your breeders recommendations as well... Keep the breeders warranty/guarantee - your vet likely sells some top quality dog food - good starting point - but definitely good to also see what the breeder uses as they're probably already adjusting to it...

While there are problems with the commercial stuff on occasion, there can be a lot worse problems with the BARF system if not done right... It's a major commitment - and plan to loose a fair bit of fridge space & some cooking utensils to just the BARF system...

[codetrap]

We tried it for a short time, but found our dog's stomach didn't agree with it. We have her on Medi-Cal now, and she's doing just fine.

[BloNdie]

I would do some real research before deciding, however the literature is limited. I had my Lab on it for about 6 months, but I didn’t see enough benefit for the cost and effort involved. The bottom line is it is REALLY tough to attain a balanced diet. Despite much research on my part to provide him with the highest quality raw food components, blood tests revealed his glucose levels to be dangerously low and I decided he would be better off eating a high quality kibble.

Although your dog may seem to be doing well on raw, I would still be nervous about the long term consequences of an imbalanced diet.

I wouldn’t recommend it, based on experience. The fact that your breeder will void your warranty is an indication in itself.

[GQBalla]

wont the dog always be hungry? since all it eats is meat?

no carbs to fill it up

[BloNdie]

Originally posted by GQBalla
wont the dog always be hungry? since all it eats is meat?

no carbs to fill it up

It isn't purely meat. I supplemented cooked brown rice and raw vegetables as well.

[the_game22]

I've never tried feeding raw but you might find some useful info in the feeding section of pets.ca
http://www.pets.ca/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=64

[GQBalla]

Originally posted by BloNdie


It isn't purely meat. I supplemented cooked brown rice and raw vegetables as well.

ah explains it -

just when i saw my friends raw food diet pucks it looked like ground beef in puck form

[JC522]

^ Lol and david almost put it in his soup before I told him it was dog food. Ya there's fruits and vegetables already in the nature variety raw food

[R-Audi]

I have my Bulldog on a raw food diet, and it consists of the 'pucks' of meat & such (Beef, Chicken, Bison, Offal, Chicken and Veggies etc) along with a fish oil and Greens powder.

While my breeder had zero experience with it (Its expensive.. so imagine multiplying that cost x5 + dogs!) My vet sells the products, and I am a firm believer. For my dog, on two patties a day, it costs about $40-50 every two weeks. It could be cheaper if you made the meals on your own, but the frozen patties is quite easy.

Things I have noticed thus far: (Only been on for 5 months)
-WAY less Poop. Wahoo!! (Its my job clenaing the yard)
-Shiner Coat
-Less sleep in eyes
-More energy
-leaner build
-WAY more excited to eat...


The main thing is to mix up the diet... you cant just feed them one type of meat every day, all day. We usually get a Chicken Meaty Bones, Beef, Chicken Veggie, Beef Offal, and Bison to mix it up. Along with those patties we squirt 1tblsp of the Fish Oil, and one tblspn of this greens powder. (Veggie and vitamin matter) We use the Urban Carnovire brand, and go with the diet reccomended by our vet. If your breeder voids your warranty because of it... they are misinformed about the diet, or are more worried about having the diet unbalanced. You have to have the dog on longer then 6 months to see the difference, but there are some things I noticed immediately!
Think of it like this.. less garbage and filler in, less garbage and filler out!

[cancer man]

/\ /\ Your dog eats better than most people.

[R-Audi]

Spending $40 every two weeks? Thats not bad in comparison to what one or two bad vet bills can be....

[GQBalla]

$40 dollers definitely isn't bad.

obviously will be expensive when you compare to kebble and stuff.

ive been reading up on raw food diet for cats.

anyone have any experience on the cat side? or is it the same thing?

[clem24]

Always remember to introduce something new slowly, otherwise your dogs digestive won't be able to handle it and they'll have bloody have diarrhea for a week.

Also, buy in small quantities first... Not all dogs actually like raw food. I tried giving some of those raw patties to my dogs... They didn't like them. I ended up frying them on the frying pan. THEN they ate them. :nut:

[BloNdie]

Originally posted by R-Audi
I have my Bulldog on a raw food diet, and it consists of the 'pucks' of meat & such (Beef, Chicken, Bison, Offal, Chicken and Veggies etc) along with a fish oil and Greens powder.

While my breeder had zero experience with it (Its expensive.. so imagine multiplying that cost x5 + dogs!) My vet sells the products, and I am a firm believer. For my dog, on two patties a day, it costs about $40-50 every two weeks. It could be cheaper if you made the meals on your own, but the frozen patties is quite easy.

Things I have noticed thus far: (Only been on for 5 months)
-WAY less Poop. Wahoo!! (Its my job clenaing the yard)
-Shiner Coat
-Less sleep in eyes
-More energy
-leaner build
-WAY more excited to eat...


The main thing is to mix up the diet... you cant just feed them one type of meat every day, all day. We usually get a Chicken Meaty Bones, Beef, Chicken Veggie, Beef Offal, and Bison to mix it up. Along with those patties we squirt 1tblsp of the Fish Oil, and one tblspn of this greens powder. (Veggie and vitamin matter) We use the Urban Carnovire brand, and go with the diet reccomended by our vet. If your breeder voids your warranty because of it... they are misinformed about the diet, or are more worried about having the diet unbalanced. You have to have the dog on longer then 6 months to see the difference, but there are some things I noticed immediately!
Think of it like this.. less garbage and filler in, less garbage and filler out!

~$100/month isn't too bad at all...It is, however, important to note that raw food (like kibble) is fed based on weight. The heavier your dog is, the more food it needs and the higher the cost per month. For my 100lb dog, I was easily paying $200/month for a raw diet.



Originally posted by clem24
Always remember to introduce something new slowly, otherwise your dogs digestive won't be able to handle it and they'll have bloody have diarrhea for a week.

Also, buy in small quantities first... Not all dogs actually like raw food. I tried giving some of those raw patties to my dogs... They didn't like them. I ended up frying them on the frying pan. THEN they ate them. :nut:

Diarrhea is normal (however not fun for your dog) with any diet change if not done properly. Blood in the stool is NOT normal though, especially for periods of a week or more.

[BloNdie]

Originally posted by GQBalla
$40 dollers definitely isn't bad.

obviously will be expensive when you compare to kebble and stuff.

ive been reading up on raw food diet for cats.

anyone have any experience on the cat side? or is it the same thing?

Cats have extremely complex digestive systems. They are strictly carnivores, however protein intake is important to get right.

A high quality diet for cats is imperative to ensure complications such as crystals don't occur. It is generally very expensive to fix this, and often re-occur.

[theken]

My boxer loved the chicken. We gave him beef he puked shit everywhere and won touch raw anything now

[bg_27]

I feed my dog raw food from tail blazers as well, I think its arusha (yellow bags). He loves it, his poop turns to white dust and disappears if you leave it long enough.

A couple vets I have talked to hate the idea of raw food. They always try and talk me out of it and tell me about the risk of salmonella on the counter, blah blah, blah. I disagree, its no more unsafe than cooking with raw chicken or beef.

I think I pay $17 per bag of 7 patties of 80% chicken and 20% veg. I feed my dog (15lbs) half a patty a meal, and I feed him once in the morning and once in the afternoon.

[nixon45]

I have had my 1 year old Boxer on raw for about 4 months now. I had tried many different varieties of kibble before switching to raw and nothing agreed with his stomach. Even the higher quality foods went right through him. Since being on raw he has improved vastly.. Took a little while for him to get up to a normal weight but now he is a lean machine. As R-Audi said it is important to switch up the variety of foods now and then so the dog doesn't develop any irritations to the same food being given to him over and over, and always add in an oil such as fish oil to keep the skin from drying out. Although raw can be a pain in the ass to prepare after a long day of work and can be expensive, it has been very good for my dog. I think a lot of people who feed raw can attest to the fact that your dog will be doing back flips waiting for his food, they lovee it.

[5hift]

Raw food diets are great for dogs. The only ones who get sick are those who are not gradually introduced to the food, or those that are older and been on kibble for too many years. Most vets are backed by huge pet food companies. I knew my vet was full of shit when he told me raw was bad, I asked for a suggestion and he offered me a sample of some purina type kibble.

People forget dogs only hundreds of years ago were not only eating raw meat, but would scavenge on carcasses etc that had been rotting for days, and they wouldnt get sick.

The only problem is unless you are washing your dog's face after every meal, the possiblilty for you getting sick is possible (ie raw meat bits on his face/stuck in his teeth, then he licks your hands, or something you handle). My dog has the schnauzer beard, and no matter what he'd always have bits of food in his face.

My dog wont even touch any kind of kibble now so I just made my own comprimise and give my dog a 70/30 mix of some type of real cooked meat/poulty/fish and some vegtables.

[BloNdie]

Originally posted by 5hift
Raw food diets are great for dogs. The only ones who get sick are those who are not gradually introduced to the food, or those that are older and been on kibble for too many years. Most vets are backed by huge pet food companies. I knew my vet was full of shit when he told me raw was bad, I asked for a suggestion and he offered me a sample of some purina type kibble.

People forget dogs only hundreds of years ago were not only eating raw meat, but would scavenge on carcasses etc that had been rotting for days, and they wouldnt get sick.

The only problem is unless you are washing your dog's face after every meal, the possiblilty for you getting sick is possible (ie raw meat bits on his face/stuck in his teeth, then he licks your hands, or something you handle). My dog has the schnauzer beard, and no matter what he'd always have bits of food in his face.

My dog wont even touch any kind of kibble now so I just made my own comprimise and give my dog a 70/30 mix of some type of real cooked meat/poulty/fish and some vegtables.

Although veterinary practices endorse specific pet for brands, they are not bribed, and at the end of the day they do have your pets best interest at heart. It is ridculous to accuse all vets of corruption. Vets, simulair to human doctors, trust the literature...not company representatives. There simply isnt enough published literature proving raw diets are benefitial.

[clem24]

Originally posted by 5hift
My dog has the schnauzer beard, and no matter what he'd always have bits of food in his face.

LOL my schnauzer is a total princess. After eating, she goes and "wipes" her beard on the stairs (or like today on the rug).

[Nepolean77]

not sure if my vet health freak but he recommended no raw meat for the dog even to cook the bones seems strange when wolves and wild dogs eat raw meat full stop.
dog not impressed.

[5hift]

Originally posted by BloNdie


There simply isnt enough published literature proving raw diets are benefitial.

thousands of years of evolution or outdated pet food industry backed research from the 60's on whats good for dogs

[hukgwai]

check out www.dogfoodanalysis.com

they review all brands of dog food and surprisingly about 1% make it as a 6 star dog food. we supplement orijen dog kibble with a cooked concoction that was recommened by the breeder. i would do raw, but it's just not convenient, so we do a premium kibble and supplement with a home-made cooked creation

[5hift]

Originally posted by hukgwai
check out www.dogfoodanalysis.com

they review all brands of dog food and surprisingly about 1% make it as a 6 star dog food. we supplement orijen dog kibble with a cooked concoction that was recommened by the breeder. i would do raw, but it's just not convenient, so we do a premium kibble and supplement with a home-made cooked creation

yeah, I saw a doc on cbc's marketplace showing how dog food is made and the testing they do ... I felt like I was going to throw up. I get what you mean about raw not being convenient, or really clean ... I tried Origen, but I have a really picky eater that only eats kibble if its really mixed with really meat/veg.

[clem24]

Originally posted by Nepolean77
not sure if my vet health freak but he recommended no raw meat for the dog even to cook the bones seems strange when wolves and wild dogs eat raw meat full stop.
dog not impressed.

Cooked bones are a no-no for dogs because it makes it brittle. A raw bone makes a great chew toy because it really helps them clean their teeth. The calcium is also good for them too. They sell them at Tail Blazers frozen. Just give it to them in the yard, then when they're done, toss it.

Vets are like doctors. Their #1 concern is.... dun dun dun.... Liability. Second one is to push whatever brand they carry. Unless i have to drop my dog off at day care or a kennel, my dog won't see a vet.

[worm]

For those of you who are thinking about switching your dogs over to a RAW diet, I encourage you to do it. Both my dogs have been on it for about 8 years now, one since we brought him home at 10 weeks the other since he was 5 years old. Quality does make a difference, but if you mix in vegtable make sure you grind them up first, your dogs stomach will have a much easier time digesting the vitamins this way, dog were not meant to eat vegtables like we do, but they do need the vitamins and nutrients, they were meant to get all this from the entrails of their kills in the wild. If you do decide to switch over to a RAW diet I would how ever recommend for the first few weeks including a flavourless yogurt in with the Raw food, this will help your dogs stomach build up the enzymes to deal with the RAW food. You may still get diarreha, but it will only last a few days to a week at the most. I've been feeding RAW a long time, this does not make me a expert but if anyone has any questions I will give you my experience and any help I can.

[sushi_fish]

Urban Carnivore, Pets Go Raw/Top Hand, Arusha and Nature's Premium are all good brands for raw food; though, if you go with Urban Carnivore, be sure to supplement your dog's diet with vegetables and rice bc Urban Carnivore is strictly meat. As for Pets Go Raw/Top Hand, they come in "dinners" so they've got the meat and the veggies and grains in there; and finally, Nature's Premium is good bc they put in Elk Velvet Antlers which is really healthy for your dog; and that's all I know... Try going to the Pet Bakery in Bowness, they sell all kinds of dog food there including the brands I just mentioned; have fun and good luck!

Btw, I don't know if you know this or not... But for raw foods, you should only be feeding a puppy raw food 5-10% of their body weight and 2-5% for an adult; as well, don't mix raw food with dry food in the same meal, I forget why though, I think it has to do with the speed of disgesting difft foods...

[clem24]

Originally posted by sushi_fish
don't mix raw food with dry food in the same meal, I forget why though, I think it has to do with the speed of disgesting difft foods...

I believe you are correct. This has to do with the speed of digestion. Raw food is much easier to digest and can pass through the dog in a few hours or something. Dry food takes at least twice that amount if not more. The issue here is that stuff like e.coli or salmonella that is likely present in raw meat will pass through quickly so it won't affect them. But if you mix it with kibble, then it lingers in their system and may cause issues. At least that's what I was told.

[R-Audi]

Originally posted by sushi_fish
Urban Carnivore, Pets Go Raw/Top Hand, Arusha and Nature's Premium are all good brands for raw food; though, if you go with Urban Carnivore, be sure to supplement your dog's diet with vegetables and rice bc Urban Carnivore is strictly meat.

You can also get the meal patties form Urban Carnivore.. CHicken/Veggie or beef/veggie.

We mix it up with those plus the 'greens' powders and fish oil

[clem24]

Originally posted by R-Audi


You can also get the meal patties form Urban Carnivore.. CHicken/Veggie or beef/veggie.

We mix it up with those plus the 'greens' powders and fish oil

And if you wanted to add more calcium, when you crack an egg, save the shell. Bake them in the oven for a few minutes. Crush them up into tiny specks and add to food! Voila, instant calcium.

[R-Audi]

I've just crushed up the shell and added as is!

[mazdavirgin]

Originally posted by 5hift
thousands of years of evolution or outdated pet food industry backed research from the 60's on whats good for dogs

Thousands of years of evolution negated by selective breeding/inbreeding. Your silly designer dogs are NOT the wild scavengers from thousands of years ago. Arguing that your designer dog is even remotely close to it's wild ancestors is silly. Either way I like how non empirical evidence is being thrown around to discredit veterinary sciences. :facepalm:



Then he said, "In regard to raw ingredients, I'm strongly against them.

"First of all, raw ingredients contain lots of things that usually are killed or taken care of before being made into the food. The extrusion process (for making dry kibble) sterilizes things, and it's very healthy in terms of sanitation and pathogens. But when it comes to raw ingredients, we have no control over those pathogens."

What about claims that a dog's stomach acid can kill pathogens like salmonella and E. coli?

"That's not true," Hussein said. ""»Those pathogens are acid resistant."

Also, raw meat can be hazardous to humans if not carefully handled. "And if the cat or dog gets E. coli or salmonella," he said, "it can be passed to the owner because we interact with our pets like kids in lots of ways."

Further, he said, "Nutritionally, feeding these raw ingredients decreases their bioavailability while the cooking process increases the bioavailablity of nutrients."

"Bioavailability" refers to how much the body uses ingested nutrients instead of the nutrients passing through unused.


http://www.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060409/COL56/604090301/1183/LIV



BARFers often claim those who disagree with them are toadies for the pet food industry. So I asked Hussein if he were one.

He laughed and said no, that most dog food companies do research in-house and don't fund university studies.

"As a scientist," he said, "I'm open minded, and I'd like to see the research on raw food so I can compare it against extruded or commercial food. "»

"(But) we know raw foods are risky for health. That's a fact. Nobody can refute that unless they can prove that the dog's stomach acid can kill all of those pathogens. I know more about food safety than many other things and that gives me alarm that we need to be careful."

[R-Audi]

Besides my dog being happier then a pig in sh1t when I feed him, its easy to follow the garbage in, garbage out saying. His poop is about 1/2 to 1/3 of the size it was on kibble... there is that much uneeded garbage in kibble that he ate every day/meal that I have to end up picking up!