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View Full Version : Why do Persians hang outside Tim Horton's parking lots? (52nd St & 16th Ave NE)



Mr Know It All
07-23-2009, 10:58 PM
I'm just curious to know why Persians with pimped out cars always hang around the Tim Horton's at Trans Canada Mall on 52nd St & 16th Ave NE, Calgary.

At any given time, you'll find at least 4 cars parked beside each other with at least 8 males just hanging around the parking lot. And if you're lucky, you'll see 8 cars with approx. 20 dudes there. Not only does this phenomenon happen in the summer, it also happens in freezing temperatures in the winter, but instead of chillin outside of their cars, they're chillin in their cars.

What the dealio?

nonlinear
07-23-2009, 11:00 PM
how old are they? i would guess it's just a group of kids, hanging out in a parking lot cause they live with their parents and have no where else to hang out... like they do all over north america :dunno:

Disoblige
07-23-2009, 11:02 PM
Beyond has meets @ Chinook.. :dunno:

Maybe they just want to meet up and show off their pimped off rides and talk about cars. I don't see anything wrong with that unless it's disrupting something/someone.

Mr Know It All
07-23-2009, 11:04 PM
The funny thing is, they're not little kids. They probably range from 20-35 of age, and all of the cars are BMWs, Benz, Acuras..etc....all pimped out.

I'm not sure if they do it all over North America, but it seems like a trend in Calgary.

hampstor
07-23-2009, 11:06 PM
Your user name and this thread just made me laugh a little inside. :rofl:

ZEDGE
07-23-2009, 11:06 PM
I have always wondered this myself. The cars are for the most part nothing special so its not for that. Also they are middle aged men from what I can tell, not young kids. Are they escaping from thier wives? ;) Maybe this is something guys do in Lebanon? Hang out talking, drinking coffee etc? On some evenings there will be seperate packs of guys spread around the parking lot. They are not doing anything wrong, I just find it interesting. I'm sure Tim Hortons in Trans Canada mall doesnt mind. :thumbsup:

pf0sh0
07-23-2009, 11:07 PM
Originally posted by hampstor
Your user name and this thread just made me laugh a little inside. :rofl:

haha I was just about to say :nut:

Mr Know It All
07-23-2009, 11:12 PM
Originally posted by ZEDGE
I have always wondered this myself. The cars are for the most part nothing speical so its not for that. Also they are middle aged men from what I can tell, not young kids. Are they escaping from thier wives? ;)


I agree... they're nothing special. Don't they have houses they can chill at?

You noticed there's no women either? LOL:rofl:

ZEDGE
07-23-2009, 11:13 PM
Originally posted by Mr Know It All



I agree... they're nothing special. Don't they have houses they can chill at?

You noticed there's no women either? LOL:rofl:

LOL, yea, thats why I thought maybe its like a guys thing to get away from the house.

FlySi
07-24-2009, 04:11 AM
Why don't you go ask them instead of asking people on a website?:dunno:

TDFTW
07-24-2009, 09:13 AM
They are a car club. Somebody made x post on beyond once inviting us to hang out with them

Weapon_R
07-24-2009, 09:27 AM
Drug dealing

Ca_Silvia13
07-24-2009, 09:38 AM
Originally posted by ZEDGE
. Are they escaping from thier wives? ;)

Most people have garages for this sort of thing

OH-EIGHT
07-24-2009, 09:42 AM
OP you are a racist troll
why don't you go ask them instead of asking people on a website? :dunno:

urban.one
07-24-2009, 09:44 AM
How do you know they are Persians?

LongCity
07-24-2009, 09:44 AM
I believe they are Lebs but regardless, it's just like a hangout spot similar to a pub (except they like it outside). A-rabs aren't much for pubs and bars.

5000Audi
07-24-2009, 09:50 AM
Originally posted by Weapon_R
Drug dealing


nope thats at the timmies on 52nd in pineridge lol...

VaN_HaMMeRSTeiN
07-24-2009, 10:27 AM
I thought the races were there, but I must be wrong.

5000Audi
07-24-2009, 10:54 AM
Originally posted by VaN_HaMMeRSTeiN
I thought the races were there, but I must be wrong.

wow you must not know to much about the city lol.. the "races" you speak of are at( if they still there) 61st and barlow timmies...

the ones were are talking about are in the NE at pineridge and trans canada mall..

reiRei
07-24-2009, 11:48 AM
Originally posted by Mr Know It All



I agree... they're nothing special. Don't they have houses they can chill at?

You noticed there's no women either? LOL:rofl:

lol, they watch the ladies come out of the spa lady there...

I always wondered what those guys were doing out there, every time I go to the gym there's always a ton of them out there..

benz_890
07-24-2009, 11:52 AM
I have no idea why we hang out there. Maybe because it's central? We go to grab a coffee and see a couple other guys there and up hanging out together?:rofl:

Mr Know It All
07-24-2009, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by FlySi
Why don't you go ask them instead of asking people on a website?:dunno:

I could drive up to them and ask why they're chillin at a parking lot, but that's just asking to be jumped LOL
I just figured some people on here would have some idea, cuz I'm just curious, that's all ..

Mr Know It All
07-24-2009, 12:16 PM
Originally posted by benz_890
I have no idea why we hang out there. Maybe because it's central? We go to grab a coffee and see a couple other guys there and up hanging out together?:rofl:

? You have no idea why you guys hang out there, but yet, there's always a few cars at any given time of the day .. EVERY day? There's gotta be a better explanation...:confused:

Oh, and to clarify for everyone .. they're not disturbing anyone/anything, I'm just curious, that's all.....

VaN_HaMMeRSTeiN
07-24-2009, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by 5000Audi


wow you must not know to much about the city lol.. the "races" you speak of are at( if they still there) 61st and barlow timmies...

the ones were are talking about are in the NE at pineridge and trans canada mall..

I spend 0 time in the NE

Pacman
07-24-2009, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by Mr Know It All


I could drive up to them and ask why they're chillin at a parking lot, but that's just asking to be jumped LOL
I just figured some people on here would have some idea, cuz I'm just curious, that's all ..

Why would you get "jumped" for asking a simple question?

If they are a group of "car guys" and you showed some interest, then they would probably be quite friendly and let you check out their cars.

sputnik
07-24-2009, 01:49 PM
Do they call each other "bro"?

cocoabrova
07-24-2009, 02:21 PM
Originally posted by reiRei

*snipped*

every time I go to the gym there's always a ton of them out there..

and what time would that be:dunno:
:devil:

5000Audi
07-24-2009, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by VaN_HaMMeRSTeiN


I spend 0 time in the NE

good thing the races you speak of are in the SE then eh...

xLostx
07-24-2009, 02:53 PM
http://www.blogdelossimpson.com.ar/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/ralphchocolate.gif
Mrs. Krabappel and Principal Skinner were in the closet making babies and I saw one of the babies and the baby looked at me!

http://web.tiscali.it/fabioracco2/images/Wiggum%20chief.gif
The baby looked at you?

adidas
07-24-2009, 02:54 PM
Problem is they are not a couple of "car guys!"

These guys are Syrian but most are pretty good guys, theyve never bothered me. They do their thing on the side and thats that!

GQNammer
07-24-2009, 02:56 PM
Originally posted by sputnik
Do they call each other "bro"?

no, it's "brudder"

masoncgy
07-24-2009, 03:56 PM
Just a gathering place for a group of friends & extended friends I guess...

The Tim Horton's at 12 Ave & 11 St SW in the Beltline is a meeting place for black cab drivers... all the time.

Just one of those things...

G-ZUS
07-24-2009, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by adidas
Problem is they are not a couple of "car guys!"

These guys are Syrian but most are pretty good guys, theyve never bothered me. They do their thing on the side and thats that!

You got your races wrong buddy. Some are syrian not all of them.

SJW
07-24-2009, 04:15 PM
Haha Persians.

IDoEOSPSrVk

black13
07-24-2009, 04:17 PM
Stupid question or what? it's a car club, same reason people wanna show off their cars. Asking this question on this website is just stupid.

Mr Know It All
07-24-2009, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by G-ZUS


You got your races wrong buddy. Some are syrian not all of them.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't all Syrians, Lebs, Armenians..etc. from the middle east called Persians? Kinda like Chinese, Viets, Japs are called Asians? :dunno:

Disoblige
07-24-2009, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by sputnik
Do they call each other "bro"?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3399682084588105037

At 2:35 :D

masoncgy
07-24-2009, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by Mr Know It All


Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't all Syrians, Lebs, Armenians..etc. from the middle east called Persians? Kinda like Chinese, Viets, Japs are called Asians? :dunno:

No, because Persians aren't Arab like Syrians, Lebanese are.

Persian = Iran
Arab = Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, etc
Armenian = Armenia (non-Arab or Persian)

Mr Know It All
07-24-2009, 04:24 PM
Originally posted by black13
Stupid question or what? it's a car club, same reason people wanna show off their cars. Asking this question on this website is just stupid.


Whoa there BRO! It's just a simple question .. no need to call me stupid, you fuckface .. if it's a car club, then fine .. cuz I didn't know .. don't gotta be a dick about it BRO

misterrick
07-24-2009, 04:24 PM
Originally posted by GQNammer


no, it's "brudder"


and dont forget "boss"

n1zm0
07-24-2009, 04:32 PM
Originally posted by masoncgy


No, because Persians aren't Arab like Syrians, Lebanese are.

Persian = Iran
Arab = Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, etc
Armenian = Armenia (non-Arab or Persian)

+1 what alot of westerners fail to realize sadly.

Gainsbarre
07-24-2009, 04:33 PM
Originally posted by Mr Know It All


Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't all Syrians, Lebs, Armenians..etc. from the middle east called Persians? Kinda like Chinese, Viets, Japs are called Asians? :dunno:

No, because Persians are what make up the majority of the population of Iran, and they are Aryan peoples.

Syrians/Lebanese and so on are Arabs and an entirely different race all together.

longa
07-24-2009, 04:35 PM
I hear they just all hang out there to meet with their friends and cousins, just to talk about the weather.

Mr Know It All
07-24-2009, 04:47 PM
Originally posted by longa
I hear they just all hang out there to meet with their friends and cousins, just to talk about the weather.

But for hours and hours..?? I mean, my gf and I would go get some groceries at Safeway and then rent a movie at Rogers Video (all in the same plaza there), and we'd go home and make dinner and watch a movie ... go back a couple hours later to return the movie and they're still there.

I dunno .. I guess it's just not my cup of tea to just sit at a parking lot to chill out.. I'd rather have friends over in the comfort of my own home.. :dunno:

Mr Know It All
07-24-2009, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by n1zm0


+1 what alot of westerners fail to realize sadly.



Originally posted by Gainsbarre


No, because Persians are what make up the majority of the population of Iran, and they are Aryan peoples.

Syrians/Lebanese and so on are Arabs and an entirely different race all together.


Thanks for the clear up. :thumbsup:

Fcuk
07-24-2009, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by Mr Know It All


I dunno .. I guess it's just not my cup of tea to just sit at a parking lot to chill out.. I'd rather have friends over in the comfort of my own home.. :dunno:

Your right... You don't know so just leave it at that. You'd rather have friends over and they'd rather chill in that specific area. This is a half-assed fail attempt at bashing them. How about this... enjoy the time you have relaxing in your home and be comfortable. You do your own thing and they do what they wanna do. :thumbsup:

RY213
07-24-2009, 04:53 PM
Originally posted by GQNammer


no, it's "brudder" feroz hangs out there too?

8Ball
07-24-2009, 05:11 PM
Originally posted by masoncgy


No, because Persians aren't Arab like Syrians, Lebanese are.

Persian = Iran
Arab = Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, etc
Armenian = Armenia (non-Arab or Persian)

BROWNS sounds easier to me

ZEDGE
07-24-2009, 06:35 PM
Originally posted by OH-EIGHT
OP you are a racist troll
why don't you go ask them instead of asking people on a website? :dunno:

Can someone ban this idiot?


Anyway, thanks for the info on Persians, Arabs, and Armenians guys, I did not know this.

To be honest I feel a bit uncomfortable walking up to them and asking what they are doing, not sure how they would react. :dunno:

Anyway its not a big deal, but like the OP I was curious myself. We live close and are at TC mall quite a bit.

turbotrip
07-24-2009, 06:44 PM
not persians; arabs, mostly lebs

some are drug dealers, but mos just use it at a meet up spot to hang out

rizfarmer
07-24-2009, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by Disoblige


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3399682084588105037

At 2:35 :D

bahaha you mean 2:55

Gainsbarre
07-24-2009, 06:58 PM
Originally posted by 8Ball


BROWNS sounds easier to me

Ya, maybe easier, but pretty inaccurate, especially since the majority of Persians and Armenians are fair skinned.

And yes, from my experience, Persian guys do seem to say "bro" a bit more often than most people, but it's no different from some of the shit that I say frequently :rofl:

FullMetal
07-24-2009, 09:43 PM
Originally posted by LongCity
I believe they are Lebs but regardless, it's just like a hangout spot similar to a pub (except they like it outside). A-rabs aren't much for pubs and bars.
They are lebs XD and i know some of them... but i wouldnt be going up there and asking them why they chilling there lol, i would stay away from them for your own safety :whipped:

VaN_HaMMeRSTeiN
07-24-2009, 10:20 PM
Exactly. I don't spend time not in the NW, we'll leave it like that.

ZorroAMG
07-24-2009, 11:50 PM
Not to start a HUUUUGE debate but I always found it fascinating that Persians spazzzz and hate being associated as Arabs.

Their flag is one star different than Iraq, an arab nation
Their country name is one letter different than Iraq, an arab nation
Their country spoons Iraq on the map and they rub shoulders with other arab countries...

Just sayin....

hampstor
07-24-2009, 11:54 PM
Originally posted by ZorroAMG
Not to start a HUUUUGE debate but I always found it fascinating that Persians spazzzz and hate being associated as Arabs.

Their flag is one star different than Iraq, an arab nation
Their country name is one letter different than Iraq, an arab nation
Their country spoons Iraq on the map and they rub shoulders with other arab countries...

Just sayin....

While travelling, most Canadians get pissed & offended when they are called Americans. If it's so important for most of us when someone gets our country wrong, can you blame Arabs & Persians when you get their race wrong?

I used to go to that tims all the time... never saw any meets there. Is this new?

ZorroAMG
07-25-2009, 12:06 AM
Not at all the same thing, but whatever.

hampstor
07-25-2009, 12:27 AM
Originally posted by ZorroAMG
Not at all the same thing, but whatever.

Not the same for sure, but similar idea to give an idea why they get worked up when you mix them up. They're actually different races... and recently, they've killed a lot of each other's population in a war not too long ago too. Not sure if it helps clarify - but those comparisons and the war were what a persian told me a few years ago when I asked her a similar question.

ZorroAMG
07-25-2009, 12:40 AM
You still aren't getting it...Calling someone an Arab is based on where they are, not what country they come from. They are in the arab world as far as geography, country name, flag etc and to say they aren't seems a little silly to me....persia, great I get it, get the history etc but meh....

Canadians are canadians, americans are americans, calling an iranian an arab isn't the same mistake as calling them an Iraqi or a Syrian....

hampstor
07-25-2009, 12:51 AM
Originally posted by ZorroAMG
You still aren't getting it...Calling someone an Arab is based on where they are, not what country they come from. They are in the arab world as far as geography, country name, flag etc and to say they aren't seems a little silly to me....persia, great I get it, get the history etc but meh....

Canadians are canadians, americans are americans, calling an iranian an arab isn't the same mistake as calling them an Iraqi or a Syrian....

I know what you're saying, you are comparing based on race and im using an analogy based on a state as it was once used on me to show how they are offended by it. I'm sorry if it didn't help with your fascination as I honestly thought it would've.

sorry for derailing the thread....... :cry:

ZorroAMG
07-25-2009, 01:02 AM
Haha, no biggie...I truly AM fascinated by their reactions on this though!

Mr Know It All
07-25-2009, 01:45 AM
Originally posted by FullMetal

They are lebs XD and i know some of them... but i wouldnt be going up there and asking them why they chilling there lol, i would stay away from them for your own safety :whipped:

Agreed. Some people on here don't seem to understand how the NE works lol .. you can't just go up to a group of guys and ask why they're chilin there, unless you're looking for a fight :rofl:

CRXguy
07-25-2009, 02:01 AM
Originally posted by Mr Know It All


Agreed. Some people on here don't seem to understand how the NE works lol .. you can't just go up to a group of guys and ask why they're chilin there, unless you're looking for a fight :rofl:

Grow a pair.

cancer man
07-25-2009, 04:43 AM
That's because you can smoke and curse and not get into a bitch fight with the wife.Who cares if they hang out in a parking lot??
Ever see the police??

OH-EIGHT
07-25-2009, 07:45 AM
Originally posted by ZorroAMG
Not to start a HUUUUGE debate but I always found it fascinating that Persians spazzzz and hate being associated as Arabs.


aren't they different ethnicities?
like how some scottish ppl that dont like being called irish

Tik-Tok
07-25-2009, 08:02 AM
Originally posted by ZorroAMG
Not to start a HUUUUGE debate but I always found it fascinating that Persians spazzzz and hate being associated as Arabs.

Their flag is one star different than Iraq, an arab nation
Their country name is one letter different than Iraq, an arab nation
Their country spoons Iraq on the map and they rub shoulders with other arab countries...

Just sayin....


It's like calling a person from Labrador a Newfie... get their reaction on that :rofl: , and they're part of the same province.

Gainsbarre
07-25-2009, 09:50 AM
First off, I have no idea what flags you're looking at, as the flags of Iraq and Iran are NOTHING alike -- Iraq has red, white and black horizontal stripes, while the flag of Iran has has green, white and red horizontal stripes. Even if they were the slightest bit similar, its like saying that Poland/Monaco/Indonesia share a common history as their flags are nearly identical.

The etymologies of the names that we uses in English ("Iran" and "Iraq") are completely unrelated and it's purely coincidental that their spellings are similar.

Yes, they share a geographic border, but the Arab world effectively ends at that Iran/Iraq border -- the Arab world extends from Morocco (in northwest Africa) all the way through to the Arabian peninsula (where Saudi Arabia/Yemen/Oman/UAE/Qatar are) and ends at Iraq/Kuwait.

Iranians and Arabs don't look the slightest bit similar to me -- there are many distinguishing facial features (especially with the women) that I can use to tell them apart without much difficulty (generally speaking it's the nose/eyes/skin tone/facial structure -- all are very different among Arabs & Iranians). Their names are even easier to tell apart, as Iranian and Arab names are completely different -- this all goes back to them being of a different race.

Dj_Stylz
07-25-2009, 09:57 AM
qd1D9T1koCI

ZorroAMG
07-25-2009, 10:03 AM
Yeah I made a mistake about the Iran/Iraq flags....it is the Syrian flag that is exactly like the old Iraqi flag, minus one star.

As for the rest of the stuff, it's all just what YOU think. The geography, afghanistan etc surrounds iran...so whatever. As for the names sure maybe a slight difference, but the people? There are VERY similar features between them. A lebanese guy from beirut looks way more like a persian than an iraqi or a mountain dwelling lebanese guy....

Whatever, it was just an observation of mine :)

Gainsbarre
07-25-2009, 10:35 AM
I didn't include Afghanistan in the Arab world, because I believe that they're considered Pashtuns (not Arabs)... but really haven't looked into this (Afghan history/people), so I can't comment too much on it.

Oh well, I still think I can tell the difference between Arabs and Iranians -- some of the differences can be fairly subtle. For instance, many Iranian women seem to have noses shaped like this one (a nose shape that I don't see Arab women having):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazanin_Boniadi

I suppose one picks up things like this if one spends a lot of time looking at middle eastern women :rofl: .

To be honest, I've been trying to learn the difference between people from different Arab countries for many years now (without much success). One of my Lebanese friends INSISTS that there are huge differences between Lebanese/Egyptians/Syrians and so on...unfortunately when I see an attractive middle eastern woman (and have figured out that she can't be Iranian), I continue to instantly think that she must be Lebanese, without giving it much additional thought (just a damn preconceived notion I have that Lebanese women are the most beautiful Arab women). :nut:

Canmorite
07-25-2009, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by Dj_Stylz
qd1D9T1koCI

Up there with Soulja Boy in terms of shittyness :rofl:

OH-EIGHT
07-25-2009, 02:30 PM
Originally posted by ZorroAMG
Yeah I made a mistake about the Iran/Iraq flags....it is the Syrian flag that is exactly like the old Iraqi flag, minus one star.

As for the rest of the stuff, it's all just what YOU think. The geography, afghanistan etc surrounds iran...so whatever. As for the names sure maybe a slight difference, but the people? There are VERY similar features between them. A lebanese guy from beirut looks way more like a persian than an iraqi or a mountain dwelling lebanese guy....

Whatever, it was just an observation of mine :)

yeah its totally understandable, its similar to how some people have trouble differentiating between chinese, korean, japanese, etc.

TDFTW
07-25-2009, 08:52 PM
Has to be something bad going down the Persians are blocked in by police and they shut down 52st at Tims in pineridge with guns out got some pics with my phone

Disoblige
07-25-2009, 08:59 PM
Originally posted by TDFTW
Has to be something bad going down the Persians are blocked in by police and they shut down 52st at Tims in pineridge with guns out got some pics with my phone

:rofl: Awaiting pics :clap:

mowglee
07-25-2009, 09:07 PM
Originally posted by TDFTW
Has to be something bad going down the Persians are blocked in by police and they shut down 52st at Tims in pineridge with guns out got some pics with my phone

pics or it didnt happen

TDFTW
07-25-2009, 09:49 PM
http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs162.snc1/6053_1027381020990_1719257440_54931_3736406_n.jpg

That is the tims by co-op village square leisure center, there was a brown guy in hand cuffs and cops with guns pointed at his bmw

mowglee
07-25-2009, 10:07 PM
There were cops all over Trans Canada

TDFTW
07-25-2009, 10:31 PM
Originally posted by mowglee
There were cops all over Trans Canada Told you so lol

rizfarmer
07-26-2009, 12:16 AM
Originally posted by Mr Know It All


Agreed. Some people on here don't seem to understand how the NE works lol .. you can't just go up to a group of guys and ask why they're chilin there, unless you're looking for a fight :rofl:



Originally posted by CRXguy


Grow a pair.



Good morning homey's; you know, that dog should really be on a leash.

ZorroAMG
07-26-2009, 12:46 AM
Not my forte!!

psycoticclown
07-26-2009, 01:05 AM
Haha, good thing the OP didn't go and ask them why they were there haha.

ZorroAMG
07-26-2009, 01:43 AM
Ummm excuse me officer, but like, you're parked in my SPOT designated to my paid off condo..so uh, when are you going to move it?

Lorne@UrbanX
07-26-2009, 12:01 PM
:drama:

R!zz0
07-27-2009, 09:04 AM
There is a few middle eastern business there...Maybe they meet there for lunch or coffee break? :dunno:

G-ZUS
07-27-2009, 09:16 AM
Originally posted by R!zz0
There is a few middle eastern business there...Maybe they meet there for lunch or coffee break? :dunno:


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: They meet on the other side of the parking lot

nrt_vw
07-28-2009, 11:46 AM
they all hang out there so they can glare everyone down who either walks or drives

Tomaz
07-28-2009, 12:46 PM
I bet they say the same things about the beyond meets.

"Look at all those white and asian kids, should we walk up and see what they are doing here?"

"no man, that is a sure way to get sued"

haha

OUTLANDER001
10-22-2009, 12:32 AM
:whocares:

2Valve0
10-22-2009, 12:35 AM
there lebanese guys who sit there trying to act cooooolll :facepalm:
i used to go to pearson

G-ZUS
10-22-2009, 12:36 AM
Originally posted by 2Valve0
there lebanese guys who sit there trying to act cooooolll :facepalm:
i used to go to pearson

:facepalm:

bjstare
10-22-2009, 01:35 AM
Seriously, you bumped after three months for this?


Originally posted by OUTLANDER001
:whocares:




Come on.


:facepalm: