The Official Hungarian Grand Prix 2009 Thread

[rage2]

Reserved for preview post

[rage2]

McLaren 1-3 in FP1 and 1-2 in FP2. About fucking time!

[Pacman]

Originally posted by rage2
McLaren 1-3 in FP1 and 1-2 in FP2. About fucking time!

I bet $5 that Hamilton will choke in qualifying. However, he will still be waving to the fans as he pulls into the pits.

[Mibz]

Originally posted by Pacman


I bet $5 that Hamilton will choke in qualifying. However, he will still be waving to the fans as he pulls into the pits. Define choke and I may take that bet.

Great practice session. Can't fucking wait for qualifying.

[DJ Lazy]

Originally posted by Pacman


I bet $5 that Hamilton will choke in qualifying. However, he will still be waving to the fans as he pulls into the pits.

I bet he doesn't choke at all.... This is FP remember... means absolutely nothing.. ;)


rage - you home yet to start re-hosting F1 Sundays?

[Cos]

GO HAMMIE!

[ryanallan]

some neat aero updates this week

Toyota
http://www.motorsport.com/photos/f1/2009/hun/f1-2009-hun-xp-0167.jpg

this looks like a new addition to the rear wing
http://www.motorsport.com/photos/f1/2009/hun/f1-2009-hun-xp-0188.jpg

end plate stabilizer
http://premium.f1-live.com/f1/photos-hires/2009/gphungaroring/diapo_610.jpg

Toro Rosso
Looks like they got their RedBull parts
http://www.motorsport.com/photos/f1/2009/hun/f1-2009-hun-xp-0189.jpg
http://www.motorsport.com/photos/f1/2009/hun/f1-2009-hun-xp-0406.jpg

McLaren
front wing end plates
http://www.motorsport.com/photos/f1/2009/hun/f1-2009-hun-xp-0195.jpg
brake ducts
http://premium.f1-live.com/f1/photos-hires/2009/gphungaroring/diapo_643.jpg
small shark fin
http://premium.f1-live.com/f1/photos-hires/2009/gphungaroring/diapo_644.jpg

BMW
bulge on front hood area
http://www.motorsport.com/photos/f1/2009/hun/f1-2009-hun-xp-0256.jpg

Ferrari
new front wing
http://premium.f1-live.com/f1/photos/2009/gphungaroring/diapo_634.jpg
http://premium.f1-live.com/f1/photos/2009/gphungaroring/diapo_635.jpg

[rage2]

That was a fucking scary accident for Massa, reminded me of the surtees one last week. Hope he's alright, that impact was huge!

edit - jesus that looks fucking BAD!

http://www.virgeweb.com/rage2/massa.jpg

http://www.virgeweb.com/rage2/massa2.jpg

I dunno if the spring that fell off barichello's car caused that, or the subsequent high speed impact. Very lucky... could've taken out his eye!

[Oz-]

AP released a story that he is having surgery on his skull. Hope he is alright and doesn't get any swelling. Those pictures look bad.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/racing/more/07/25/massa.crash.ap/index.html


BUDAPEST, Hungary (AP) -- Felipe Massa will undergo surgery after a high-speed crash at the Hungarian Grand Prix caused bone damage to the Ferrari driver's skull and a concussion.

The 28-year-old Brazilian was airlifted to hospital following the accident and will remain "under observation in intensive care" following the operation.

Ferrari said his condition was "stable" upon arrival to hospital, where he was conscious.

A spring from another car flew up and struck Massa in the helmet during qualifying on Saturday, causing him to continue straight through a curb, across the track and through the gravel area alongside the circuit before slamming into the tire barrier at high speed.

[Cos]

if you watch the telemetry before the impact, the throttle was full down and i think he realized it and braked really hard.

5.0G impact (probably the max it could read, probably hit more). I dont like ferrari but I would never wish that on him. He looks so scared, I feel so bad for him.


edit: just watched the replay that shows him getting smoked in the head with a metal piece. At 36 seconds you can see the piece hit him.

xhXX98aEV98

[Mibz]

Yeah, he's definitely missing the GP over this. When they first showed Rubens' shit falling off I thought there was no way it hit Massa, he was too far behind. Then they showed in the car-cam shot and you clearly see it smoke him in the head. And Cos is right, the car is going full throttle the entire time after he gets hit and somehow he braked as well. I imagine he would've been unconscious or at least dazed during his skid. I think the look on his eyes tells that story.

Fucked up. Hope he recovers quickly. Blows my effing mind that two debris meets head injuries happened in a week.

Can I bring up how coincidental it is that they lose timing just as everybody is finishing their last hot laps? Even more coincidental that it comes back for a moment and disappears again just as Hamilton's about to cross the line :P

[rage2]

Originally posted by Cos
if you watch the telemetry before the impact, the throttle was full down and i think he realized it and braked really hard.
It looks like he was out cold when that spring hit his head. Because F1 drivers left foot brake, his left leg just put weight down and hit the brakes, thats prob why we see telemetry show full brake and full throttle at the same time. He didn't really slow down at all.

From Autosport, latest update:


Felipe Massa has successfully undergone surgery for the injuries he suffered in his accident in qualifying in Hungary.

Ferrari said the driver will now remain under observation in the intensive care unit at the AEK hospital in Budapest, where the Brazilian was taken after being hit by a spring during Q2.

Massa had suffered a damaged skull and brain concussion, as well as a cut on his forehead.

The Italian team said a further update on his condition will be issued tomorrow morning.

Brawn confirmed the spring belonged to a damper from Rubens Barrichello's Brawn car, weighing around 800 grams.

"We had a problem at the back, so we are still investigating and we haven't had the piece back from the FIA yet so once we get it back we can understand what occurred and then draw some conclusions," said team boss Ross Brawn.

"It is the first time we've had a problem with the car. The car has been really reliable and we are obviously looking all through the data to understand what caused the problem. It is hard to comment at the moment until we have studied everything.

"We put a new component on Jenson's car in qualifying just to be safe, but we are still studying everything that went on to understand what happened."
Get well soon Massa!

[BerserkerCatSplat]

BBC is reporting Massa's injury as being in "Life-threatening but stable condition."

[rage2]

Originally posted by BerserkerCatSplat
BBC is reporting Massa's injury as being in "Life-threatening but stable condition."
Yep, that's the latest update from the hospital. His condition got worse after surgery. He's now in a medically induced coma. :(

[BerserkerCatSplat]

The latest reports from BBCR5 indicate that while there were some tense moments after the surgery, they've re-scanned his head and found nothing too worrying. They may pull him out of the coma as early as tomorrow morning, barring any changed for the worst.

[DJ Lazy]

Could F1 get anymore intense this year... That was a MASSIVE accident, and like Mibz said, unreal that 2 debris to head accidents in one week...

Those pictures of Massa are pretty frightening. He's looks absolutely terrified.

+1.. Get Well Soon Massa.

[Vagabond142]

I'm just glad that helmet technology has come along as much as the cars have. If that spring had hit him in 1999 vs 2009, he'd pretty well be dead. New composites, absorbion materials, crush zones, etc, probably saved his life o_o Also, the HANS device also saved him from the headon with the wall. Thank gawd for safety equipment!

[Mibz]

Ferrari is, apparently, unable to replace Massa for the race, but have two reserve drivers for the rest of the season. I imagine Massa's gonna be twitchy after this if he remembers the incident and may not race again for a while.

[rage2]

Hospital press officer reports that Massa has suffered bleeding in the brain, surgery was successful but won't know more until they take him off the medically induced coma and run tests tomorrow. Most likely he'll miss the rest of the season.

His condition is still listed as life threatening but stable.

[Trini]

speedy recovery to him!

[That.Guy.S30]

fuck that was brutal... speedy recovery massa

[Cos]

thanks for the clarification rage. Makes sense when you put it that way.

Get well soon Massa, shitty for sure.

[Inzane]

Holy crap!!

I got back from the Edmonton Indy events today and realized I'd forgot about the F1 race this weekend so I hadn't set my pvr to record qualifying last night.

I hope Massa can recover. :(

[Boostn]

That was quite the horrific impact, when he wasn't moving in the car immediately following the incident I feared the worst. I hope Massa fully recovers and continues on with his racing career. I remember Mika Hakkinen suffered a severe head injury back in 95 but survived and went on to claim two world titles.

[DJ Lazy]

Originally posted by rage2
Hospital press officer reports that Massa has suffered bleeding in the brain, surgery was successful but won't know more until they take him off the medically induced coma and run tests tomorrow. Most likely he'll miss the rest of the season.

His condition is still listed as life threatening but stable.

Bleeding in the brain...:eek: Not a good thing at all... :( Sure is alot worse than anyone first anticipated. Wasn't it Brundle that said "oh yea, he's talking and waving his arm" "slight knock on the chin"....

I'd be amazed if he is able to return to the cockpit this year...

[buh_buh]

that was Eddie Jordan, but way worse than I thought too.
Looked like the Kovy incident last year before I saw the replay of him getting smoked in the face with the spring.

Get better Felipe baby

1gj0sph32i8

[rage2]

The latest from James Allen.


Felipe Massa has been operated on this evening and is now in an induced coma in the AEK Hospital in Budapest.

An inaccurate report from AP this evening suggested that his condition was life threatening but this is not the case. The operation was successful and he is likely to be woken tomorrow.

Medical estimates of how long he will be out of action vary from two months, to longer. It has been suggested by one doctor here that he may miss the rest of the season. More will be known when the medically induced coma ends and the medics can assess the amount of bruising to the front of the brain.

The 28 year old was hit in the head by a spring which had fallen from the rear suspension of Rubens Barrichello’s Brawn car. He was on a lap heading back to the pits and was four seconds behind Barrichello on the road, when the spring became detached. It bounced down the road for four seconds and hit Massa in the head. He was briefly knocked unconscious and his feet went onto the brake and throttle simultaneously.

The data says that he applied 60bar of pressure to the brake, which is the equivalent of laying his foot on it gently, while the throttle was effectively jammed on.

Ross Brawn tonight explained that the spring was from the third damper and is made of steel and weighs around a kilogramme.
“The damper is still attached but the cap had come off and the spring escaped,” said Brawn. “I don’t know the full details but it was a freak accident.”

Brawn replaced the spring on Jenson Button’s car just in case, but Brawn said that this did not affect the balance of the car for Button’s final qualifying run.

He said that he had never experienced a spring detaching itself in all his years in F1 engineering. He added that he thought that the work done on making helmets safer had been ‘essential’ in this situation.

[Cos]

^^^ dont know what to say but wow.

[Team_Mclaren]

just like Surtee, thats some shit luck.. get well soon Massa.

Shit happens, Coutlhand was lucky a few years ago when Bourgays car flew up and missed his head by a few inches.

[Mibz]

Ronrey...... I'm so... Ronrey.....

[rage2]

haha, go McLaren, let's do this! P1 in turn 1! KERS!

[Mibz]

Nice dramatic camera shot through the phone cord. They need to get that guy on Top Gear.

[rage2]

Wow, Webber might win #2 with that start! And Button made a pass.... WTF???

edit - HAMILTON!!!! Fucking rights!!!

[Mibz]

Hamilton takes P2!

[rage2]

keep passing... I wanna see that pussycat bounce more LOL!

[Mibz]

Hamilton's fast as hell right now, wow.
Fastest lap.
Jaime just ran the same lap as Glock. I hope he passes Barrichello.

Kimi's being investigated for his contact with Vettel and Alonso's wheel guard just fell off. LOLOLOL.

WHEEL OFF
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Those grandstands are empty, wow.

[rage2]

Oh man I should've went to this race. I'll bet there's tons of cheaap tickets. I'd be waving my McLaren flag proudly!

[Trini]

so many empty seats! What a joke

tough luck Alonso

[Mibz]

My picks are fucked this week.

[Trini]

Originally posted by Mibz
My picks are fucked this week.

Same here :-(

[Mibz]

It'll be worth it to see two McLaren's on the podium though.

[rage2]

Same here haha.

1 Vettel, Sebastian
2 Hamilton, Lewis
3 Webber, Mark
4 Kovalainen, Heikki
5 Alonso, Fernando
6 Button, Jenson
7 Rosberg, Nico
8 Nakajima, Kazuki

[Mibz]

I've got the same people as Cos, just different order. I need to end up on top. Tell him he's going down and flip him the bird for me.

Haha, nice missed gear there Kimi.

[rage2]

I think he lost 1st gear. Looks like that was a 2nd gear start.

[Mibz]

There's a limit on gearboxes like there is on engines right?

[Unknown303]

Watching at work right now. Pretty decent race so far. few drivers out. That one tire sheering off was quite a sight.

[Mibz]

Webber's best only 3 thousandths behind Hamilton's.

[rage2]

34 pts for me it looks like... how about you guys?

[rage2]

Bow down bitches!!! Domination from beginning to end.

Welcome back McLaren, now win the rest of 'em and take the championship down to the last race!

[Mibz]

Originally posted by rage2
34 pts for me it looks like... how about you guys? 35.

Great race by Hamilton, so stoked to be back in it. Nice to see Kovi being competitive as well. I was really hoping he'd get ahead of Rosberg while Raikonnen got penalized and we'd see a 1-3 finish. I'll take 1-5 though :P

EDIT: Haha, looks like I tied with Cos anyway.

[rage2]

An interesting note, this is the 2nd race in a row that Kimi's been involved in an incident that's to be investigated AFTER the race.

Only Ferrari seems to get that luxury... everyone else gets unappealable drive-thru penalties.

[Chris Elyea]

Renault suspended from European Grand Prix (http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2009/7/9684.html)

[Cos]

wow alonso's crew screw up screwed my picks

[Mibz]

Originally posted by Cos
wow alonso's crew screw up screwed my picks Well, the lollipop man's screw up really, and then Renault for not telling him to stay in pit lane so they could fix it.

[rage2]

Originally posted by Chris Elyea
Renault suspended from European Grand Prix (http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2009/7/9684.html)
Just got in and read about that. WOW. That's a little over the top.

Alonso missing out in Spain. There shall be riots.

[Mibz]

Forgot to mention that I was quite impressed by Jaime's pace. Once he gains some confidence I think he'll be easily capable of points. Maybe not this season, but next season I'll be cheering for him.

EDIT: Renault's punishment is over the top but it's a matter of bad timing. One injury and one fatality in the last week from car debris and they knowingly let him out of the pit with a loose wheel cap. If this happened a month ago it would've been a reprimand at best, similar to what RBR got this race for the Webber pit incident.

At first I was hoping that Renault would win the appeal, and I still hope the sentence is reduced to allow them to race, but it was a seriously stupid move to make at this point in time.

EDIT 2: Oh shi-. I forgot it was Spain. Hahaha, head's are gonna roll.

[rage2]

Renault's banned, but not Alonso. Maybe he'll race at Ferrari for Massa... Be interesting if that was possible.

Jaime was more than impressive. He beat Buemi first time out with a mistake free drive. He needs to work on his physical program tho, he couldn't maintain a full GP at racing speeds.

[Trini]

Originally posted by rage2
34 pts for me it looks like... how about you guys?

37..still holding on to that 1 point lead:nut:

that's a bit of a harsh penalty for Renault/Alonso in my view

[DJ Lazy]

Originally posted by Trini


37..still holding on to that 1 point lead:nut:

that's a bit of a harsh penalty for Renault/Alonso in my view

Enjoy that point man! :D I plan to pass you like Hamilton did today... :rofl:

[ryanallan]

Great race for McLaren !

I am slowly increasing my gap from Mbiz in the pool :burnout:

[Mibz]

Originally posted by ryanallan
Great race for McLaren !

I am slowly increasing my gap from Mbiz in the pool :burnout: You need to set your sights higher. My goal is just to stay ahead of the other guy who missed a race :P

Massa suffered eye damage, though they don't know the extent of it:
http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_5456220,00.html

Professor Robert Veres said: "He has suffered some damage to the eye.

"We don't know if he'll be able to race again.

"I don't know (if he can return). It's too early to say about his future.

"We don't know the extent of the damage. Without an operation it's very hard to evaluate its function."

[DJ Lazy]

Originally posted by Mibz
You need to set your sights higher. My goal is just to stay ahead of the other guy who missed a race :P

Massa suffered eye damage, though they don't know the extent of it:
http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_5456220,00.html



That's horrible news...

Maybe its time to add dome style windshields of some sort to formula cars... I wouldn't be surprised if it's suggested anyways.. even though it would suck for hardcore fans of open single-seat racing, a drivers safety takes precedence IMO.

[Mibz]

I think the safety debate deserves its own thread, but I don't feel that two flukes deserve a drastic change to racing, existing equipment just needs to be improved.

A stronger visor on Massa's helmet probably would have reduced the damage to his head and stronger wheel tethers would have saved Surtees.

[buh_buh]

Driver safety has come a long way imo, and it was probably all the innovations in technology and encouragement of driver safety throughout the years that saved Massa's life. I'm all for protecting the drivers, but where do you draw the line? Its like the entire direction of society is headed. Soon motorsports won't exist anymore because its too dangerous. I say protection of drivers should be towards better innovations in current safety equipment (better HANS devices, better materials in helmets, etc), better use and materials of runoff areas, safer barriers. Afterall, it was the lack of wheel tethers implemented in F2 that killed Surtees, a blatant ignorance of a basic safety requirement we're used to seeing in F1 and every other prominent open wheel series. I know tethers were are used in F2, but what are the regulations surrounding it? There was no talk of failure, just statements that yes, tethers are used in F2 and nothing else. Both cars involved in the Surtees accident lost wheels after a pretty minor collision, so were they both fluke cases of wheel tether failures, or are they just not up to spec, and the use of wheel tethers is merely paying lip service to those preaching for further safety regulations? We should always look out for driver safety first, but not at the expense of the sport itself.

[rage2]

Latest official update on Massa.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77383


Felipe Massa's condition is continuing to improve as doctors at the AEK Hospital in Hungary, where the Brazilian driver is being treated, denied earlier reports of eye damage and instead suggested he could make a full recovery.

Colonel Dr. Lajos Zsiros, the chief surgeon of the Hungarian Defence Forces, told a news conference on Monday that the 28-year-old had been woken from sedation on Monday afternoon, and was unlikely to be sedated again.

"In the last 24 hours some major changes have gone through in the condition of Felipe Massa," said Zsiros. "His condition continues to be stable.

"During the CT-scan we performed we could ascertain that there was an improvement in his condition. We stopped sedation and after that Felipe Massa became capable of making contact."

"So in the afternoon we stopped the artificial ventilation of Felipe. As we speak he is sleepy, but he gives adequate answers to the questions we ask him, and he can move his arms and legs spontaneously."

"Right now he has no fever, and we have removed the drain tube from his wound. Further improvement of his condition can be expected. During the night we do not plan to do any more interventions on him."

Zsiros denied the earlier reports that Massa had injured his left eye, which led to speculation about his future participation in Formula 1.

Peter Bazso, the hospital's medical director, explained that it was in fact too early to tell if there was any damage because Massa was still unable to open the eye: "We can give no positive neither negative answer to this, because at this stage the vision cannot be examined."

Bazso made it clear however that a full recovery was still entirely possible for the Brazilian.

"There is no such thing as 'this condition', because every case is different," he pointed out. "Of course it isn't impossible."

When asked when they will be able to determine if Massa has suffered any kind of lasting injury, Zsiros said: "There is no interval which we can define, but I would say it should be from one week to ten days."

He added that Massa would remain in intensive care as long as his condition made that necessary.

Dino Altmann, the Chief Medical Officer of the Brazilian Grand Prix, who also attended the news conference, confirmed Massa was now able to speak.

"He spoke, he wanted to know what happened to him. And he had some questions," Altmann revealed. "I would like to say that the family is very happy with the treatment Felipe is receiving here, and there's no question about transfer at the moment."

Altmann said they haven't asked Massa yet if he was able to remember the accident. He also explained that the operation on Saturday, which doctors described as "life-saving", was performed because of the skull damage, not because of brain swelling.

A spokesman for the AEK hospital confirmed Massa's family were already in Budapest, and a room was made available for them so they could stay with him at all times.
They have no clue on the condition of his eye. It's still completely shut.

[DJ Lazy]

Originally posted by rage2


They have no clue on the condition of his eye. It's still completely shut.


Go figure... Mibz always posts the fake rumors and such... ;)

[Mibz]

Originally posted by DJ Lazy
Go figure... Mibz always posts the fake rumors and such... ;) I hear you don't like little boys.

:P I read that same article about 20 minutes ago and it didn't click that it contradicted mine. *sigh*

[DJ Lazy]

Originally posted by Mibz
I hear you don't like little boys.




:rofl: :rofl: ... You fucker!

[buh_buh]

This is how I read this...


Originally posted by Mibz
I hear you don't like little boys.


Originally posted by DJ Lazy

You fucker!

and yet, no denial from DJ Lazy

[DJ Lazy]

Originally posted by buh_buh
This is how I read this...




and yet, no denial from DJ Lazy


What worries me.... is that little boys were on Mibz' mind in the first to come up with such a rumor...


Plus, there is always a 1st for everything... even being right! :D

[Mibz]

Originally posted by DJ Lazy



What worries me.... is that little boys were on Mibz' mind in the first to come up with such a rumor...


Plus, there is always a 1st for everything... even being right! :D What can I say? I think of you and tiny, unused penises come to mind.

[buh_buh]

you think of penises when you think of DJ Lazy? Shit is getting crazy in here. :nut:

[Chris Elyea]

Originally posted by buh_buh
Driver safety has come a long way imo, and it was probably all the innovations in technology and encouragement of driver safety throughout the years that saved Massa's life. I'm all for protecting the drivers, but where do you draw the line? Its like the entire direction of society is headed. Soon motorsports won't exist anymore because its too dangerous. I say protection of drivers should be towards better innovations in current safety equipment (better HANS devices, better materials in helmets, etc), better use and materials of runoff areas, safer barriers. Afterall, it was the lack of wheel tethers implemented in F2 that killed Surtees, a blatant ignorance of a basic safety requirement we're used to seeing in F1 and every other prominent open wheel series. I know tethers were are used in F2, but what are the regulations surrounding it? There was no talk of failure, just statements that yes, tethers are used in F2 and nothing else. Both cars involved in the Surtees accident lost wheels after a pretty minor collision, so were they both fluke cases of wheel tether failures, or are they just not up to spec, and the use of wheel tethers is merely paying lip service to those preaching for further safety regulations? We should always look out for driver safety first, but not at the expense of the sport itself.

At the 1955 running of the 24 Hours of Le Mans, a driver and over 80 spectators were killed in an accident near the pit entrance. The 1955 French, German, Spanish, and Swiss Grands Prix were subsequently cancelled by those countries. In fact, motorsports were outlawed entirely in several countries. Once governments were satisfied that track safety had been improved, motorsports were legalized again. Except in Switzerland, where they remain banned, though now it seems mostly for environmental and traffic reasons.

The FIA has already initiated a study of accidents like those that happened to Surtees and Massa. It's possible changes could be made to increase safety. Importantly, the FIA is sending the message that motorsports are regulated and safety is a priority, which should minimize knee-jerk reactions from outside motorsports.

(Sorry for changing the subject back to racing.)

FXtb5eDUuQw