Cash for Clunkers in Canada

[timd]

I've started an online petition which I fully intend on submitting to the Canadian Government.

The US has started a Cash for Clunkers program this summer. In early July 2009, the Canadian government said they are looking into the Idea. More like sitting on it.

I truly believe Canada needs this program. It will help mother nature with lower and cleaner auto emissions into our air and water and it should give a boost to the auto sector. I think a lot of Canadians, including myself, are waiting for this program to cash in and get a great deal on a newer car.

Please visit my petition and sign at

Cash for Clunkers in Canada Program online Petition (http://www.gopetition.com/online/29706.html)

Thank you for your time,

Tim D

[benyl]

Canadian auto sales have not declined as much as they have in the US. In fact some companies sold more cars in June 2009 than June 2008.

[4DoorGTZ]

For this to work better something needs to be included about WHERE the new car you buy is made.... Americans can get rebates on new Kia's, $4500 us tax dollars to Korea!

I'd be for a rebate on a canadian built corolla but not for a japanese built 4Runner(just guessing here) So people wouldnt necissarily be limited to the (once)big three.

[2EFNFAST]

Yea, because the government reallllllllllllllllly cares what you think :rofl:

[old&slow]

^and that sums up the problem with Canadians and apathy!

[ExtraSlow]

If we want to increase fuel economy, and we'd like to do taxes (or incentives) to do it, then why not just raise the gas tax? That way the consumer will be able to make efficient choices for themselves, rather than being told by some big brother government what's best for them.

And as for helping the Auto industry, I think we've done more than enough.

[benyl]

Originally posted by 4DoorGTZ
For this to work better something needs to be included about WHERE the new car you buy is made.... Americans can get rebates on new Kia's, $4500 us tax dollars to Korea!

I'd be for a rebate on a canadian built corolla but not for a japanese built 4Runner(just guessing here) So people wouldnt necissarily be limited to the (once)big three.

That is called protectionism.

[hampstor]

Originally posted by benyl


That is called protectionism.

Not picking on 4DoorGTZ specifically as i'm not sure if he supports free trade, but in general terms it's quite amazing how fast people go from being all for free trade, freedom of choice, and free market then switching over to protectionism isn't it?

[kvanderlaag]

I -like- being able to find sources for parts for my shitty old cars. You know, so I can keep them running because I actually chose to drive them rather than because I can't afford something better? If you take them all off the road by encouraging people to buy some new trash, what do they do with them? They crush them.

This is the reason it's impossible to find old Celica parts in the states - they don't even make it through self-service or full-service yards for people to strip parts from, because the US government is PAYING yards to crush and recycle for scrap anything made before 1990.

If you want to improve emissions, implement a national, mandatory emissions test along the lines of the Lower Mainland in BC, or the e-test in Ontario. Don't try to veil a distaste for 'junk' (see also: old cars) behind some environmentally friendly facade. They simply DO NOT make cars like they used to, and I personally have no desire to drive one of these plastic recycling bins with an engine they're passing off as cars today.

[benyl]

Originally posted by kvanderlaag

If you want to improve emissions, implement a national, mandatory emissions test along the lines of the Lower Mainland in BC, or the e-test in Ontario. Don't try to veil a distaste for 'junk' (see also: old cars) behind some environmentally friendly facade. They simply DO NOT make cars like they used to, and I personally have no desire to drive one of these plastic recycling bins with an engine they're passing off as cars today.

So tell me how I can get my 1982 Celica to pass emissions test from 2009? Also, how do I improve the fuel economy so that it gets 45mpg?

The point of this legislation is to improve fuel economy and reduce green house gasses. Using grandfathered emission values because a car is old isn't going to accomplish either of those goals.

[2EFNFAST]

Originally posted by old&slow
^and that sums up the problem with Canadians and apathy!

No, it's called realism. The govn't doesn't give a damn about you, me, or anybody but itself.

Just like how voting is a waste of time nowadays - it doesn't matter who wins, the fact is all promises are just inflated lies because we've been trained not to care if the govn't screws us over.

[2EFNFAST]

BTW, cash 4 clunkers was suspended today because they think they ran out of money for it :rofl:

[kvanderlaag]

Originally posted by benyl


So tell me how I can get my 1982 Celica to pass emissions test from 2009? Also, how do I improve the fuel economy so that it gets 45mpg?


Swap in a 2RZ from a new Tacoma.

[2EFNFAST]

Originally posted by kvanderlaag


Swap in a 2RZ from a new Tacoma.

LS1/3/6/7/9 foo :facepalm:

[4DoorGTZ]

Originally posted by benyl


That is called protectionism.

I'll admit I'm not versed on the subject but arent the Asian countries that do so well selling cars in N. America protectionist towards N. American cars there? Maybe nothing made here is wanted over there but I do believe the Auto workers unions had beefs with the influx of cars here without being able to sell theirs over there. (Again, dunno if its legislation, taxes or just an incompatible product)

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by 4DoorGTZ


I'll admit I'm not versed on the subject but arent the Asian countries that do so well selling cars in N. America protectionist towards N. American cars there? Maybe nothing made here is wanted over there but I do believe the Auto workers unions had beefs with the influx of cars here without being able to sell theirs over there. (Again, dunno if its legislation, taxes or just an incompatible product)

Asia isn't protectionistic. Most American companies don't make cars cater to Asia and last I check only Japanese guard their own brands, even if it's inferior (cough cough, PS3)

Chinese love Buick and anything from Europe.

Mexico's version cash for clunker only applies to Mexican made cars. I don't know why this doesn't cause any trade issues but I think a similar program for Canada will make sense.

That only limit use to:

MDX
CSX
Civic
Corolla
Highlander
Caravan
Camaro

and that list will be cut by half if we mandate fuel economy. So why even bother?

[Darell_n]

After 4 days the program has been canceled in the States after burning through their $950 million budget.

It's interesting what the program entails. After a car is traded in the engine is drained of oil then partially refilled with a sodium silicate solution. The engine is held at 2000 rpm until it seizes. If it fails to start after cooling off then it gets tagged with a 'severely damaged engine' label and sent to the recycle yard. Pretty sad way to go out.

[Xtrema]

^ Only 23000 cars applied for C4C. @ $4500 each, that's just $100M. Where did the other $900M go? Process fee?

[thetransporter]

yeah time to trade in my 1993 honda 4 cylnder for a 2009 toyota landcruiser..and go green.

[urban.one]

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[urban.one]

Heres how theyre seizing engines on the cars that go through the program:

X0IcIxhd8ks

[canuckcarguy]

Seems silly to throw a bunch of cash at people for buying new cars. I hope the Canadian government doesn't go down this road, our taxes are high enough already.

If the OP is that concerned, he can take the bus. Transit's already got lots of federal subsidy, should make him plenty happy.

[2EFNFAST]

Originally posted by urban.one
Heres how theyre seizing engines on the cars that go through the program:

X0IcIxhd8ks

That's just painful to watch :(

[mx73someday]

It's amazing what they consider clunkers:

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Youtube is full of videos like these. The intention of the program is good, but the means are terrible. The government is so inept they couldn't even find a way to track clunkers so they don't re-enter the system, instead they have the dealers destroy the engines, seriously pathetic.

All the non-"cash for clunkers" dealers (used car dealers) are hurt by this program. Same thing with all the non-dealer mechanics or anyone else who makes a buck of off this group of vehicles.

As for stimulus, let the shitty companies die already, stop helping them with public money. The majority doesn't want to help "stimulate" these businesses, but the businesses manage to lobby the government into these retarded programs.

[benyl]

Wow, that Volvo went on and on forever. Not bad for a Ford.

a 2009 C63 qualifies for the Cash for Clunkers program...

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by benyl
Wow, that Volvo went on and on forever. Not bad for a Ford.

a 2009 C63 qualifies for the Cash for Clunkers program...

S80 isn't really a Ford.

I think we should start a save a clunker program. I'll pay you $4500 for that C63...... :D


Originally posted by mx73someday
Youtube is full of videos like these. The intention of the program is good, but the means are terrible. The government is so inept they couldn't even find a way to track clunkers so they don't re-enter the system, instead they have the dealers destroy the engines, seriously pathetic.

All the non-&quot;cash for clunkers&quot; dealers (used car dealers) are hurt by this program. Same thing with all the non-dealer mechanics or anyone else who makes a buck of off this group of vehicles.

As for stimulus, let the shitty companies die already, stop helping them with public money. The majority doesn't want to help &quot;stimulate&quot; these businesses, but the businesses manage to lobby the government into these retarded programs.

Killing the engine is the only sure fire way of it being out of commission. Since the whole idea is for the bigger engine to stop producing CO2.

German C4C never disable the engines and clunkers already slowly making it back to used car lots through some export/import schemes.

The C4C that passed wasn't initial C4C proposed. The MPG requirement was stricter. Original C4C would have almost exclude all trucks other than the 2 hybrid trucks/SUV. And anything bigger than a compact won't make it either.

It's effect is also questionable. Most people bought import brands which means 1/2 the money flowed back to Japan and Korea, and a lesser extend, Mexico and Canada.

[canuckcarguy]

What I don't get is that nobody talks about the environmental impact of destroying a running, serviceable car. Remember when environmentalists used to talk about reduce, reuse, and recycle? Now it's hip to throw out a usable car and get a new one, which definitely involves plenty of so-called greenhouse gas production.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by canuckcarguy
What I don't get is that nobody talks about the environmental impact of destroying a running, serviceable car. Remember when environmentalists used to talk about reduce, reuse, and recycle? Now it's hip to throw out a usable car and get a new one, which definitely involves plenty of so-called greenhouse gas production.

C4C is boost to economy and while clean up the air by very narrow margin.

1) There is no guarantee the clunker is being used daily.

2) There is no guarantee the clunker will be recycled properly.

So the environmental impact is close to nil. The only way to make people to conserve it to raise commodity prices. Not incentive programs.

[canuckcarguy]

It's like in Mexico City about 10-12 years ago, they decided to lower pollution by only licensing cars for 6 days per week instead of 7. Every license plate had a designated day that the car had to be parked. Easy way to reduce emissions by 1/7th, right? Of course, it just meant that people with nice (and low-polluting) cars bought a beater for the 7th day, and pollution was worse.

There are always unintended consequences.

It just lacks common sense to throw out usable cars, or to pay people who can afford new cars some money to consume more. Weird.

[mx73someday]

Originally posted by Xtrema


C4C is boost to economy and while clean up the air by very narrow margin.

It's not a boost to economy, it's hindering one group for the benefit of another, there is no gain. Since a bureaucracy has to run the program and taxpayers are paying for it I'd say that it hurts the economy. Also consider that people who outright own their clunkers are likely getting car loans to pay for what the program doesn't pay for when they buy a new vehicle. Just what the economy needs, more people in debt! And I don't see how destroying goods with value is beneficial to an economy.

[benyl]

Maserati C4C

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2009/08/14/delozier.maserati.cash.KUSA

[Redlyne_mr2]

It's a stupid wasteful program that I hope we never see here.

[benyl]

oops repost on my part!

http://forums.beyond.ca/st/274887/crushing-a-maserati/

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Xtrema]

Look at this private C4C initiative......

http://www.automotivestimulus.org/index.html


Some of the top automotive retailers in the country have agreed to promote and support the Auto Stimulus Plan, a dealer funded private sector stimulus program that gives consumers incentives to make it easier to get into a newer more fuel efficient vehicles.

Sounds like Black Book + incentive when you buy a new car @ MSRP dressed up C4C. :rofl:

[Redlyne_mr2]

If the dealer really wants to sell the customer a car they will offer an overallowance on their trade and sell the new vehicle for full price.

[71car2]

Hmph.... as far what I know right now the current rebate program in BC is offering $300 in bus passes or something to get people to give up their old clunkers. What, $300? That's all? Haha, Naw... even if I was in BC and I have a good running like say, a 1985 Honda Civic beater with a good engine running. Would I go for $300 ? If that Civic is still in good shape then I'll keep it until it die then I go look for another good cheap car.

If the govenement plan to put the C4C program in gear, they BETTER be prepare to offer a good reasonable quote - like what the US goverment had done recently. Otherwise, the Canadian goverment would look like fools with $300 rebate or even $1000 rebate!

Personally, I find the B.C. $300 rebate more actually an insult! That's my 2 cents.

[97'Scort]

It was on the news today here, apparently BC has had a similar program called Scrap It (http://www.scrapit.ca/). Mind you, the money isn't anywhere near the US amount.

The program was apparently launched in 1996 and has just now eaten up its $15 million (million, not billion) budget. Most people used it to buy bikes.

So there you go, BC put the cash down, and nobody came.

[71car2]

Ah... looked up this site - SCRAP IT, I see I was told by someone about this program. So BC is offering $300 "cash" by mail, huh ... and there is other options up to $1,250 but someone will have to pay the other portion from their own pocket if want to choose that option from their rebate list.

[TomcoPDR]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
It's a stupid wasteful program that I hope we never see here.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Cash for Clunkers - NOT in Alberta

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Edmonton... The Alberta Motor Vehicle Industry Council (AMVIC) is telling industry that using the "Cash for Clunkers" name in a promotion is deceptive and misleading.

"Cash for Clunkers" is the nickname for the "Car Allowance Rebate System" in the United States. It is a federal program providing grants of $3,500 or $4,500 under certain conditions on the purchase of a new vehicle.

No such program exists in Canada or Alberta. Using those words and leading consumers to believe they will receive a rebate could be considered a misleading and deceptive practice. AMVIC will take action to assure that no consumers are misled by this advertising.

AMVIC is responsible for administering and enforcing motor vehicle industry regulations under Alberta's Fair Trading Act.