If you doubted ticket quotas before...

[flipstah]

...this will shed some light. I think it's common knowledge that you need to watch out whenever the month is ending because of quota but if you didn't, now you know!

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/slow-down-police-have-quota-to-meet-52635752.html

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/opinion/columnists/Police-memo-clears-up-doubt-on-traffic-ticket-quotas-52790247.html


Internal police memos, obtained this week by CTV News, show that Winnipeg police officers have been told they’re expected to hand out a minimum of one traffic offence notice per cruiser per shift. Even tactical units are expected to do their part.


Thoughts?

Hope it's not a re-post.

Oh shit, this should be in the Current Events section. Please move, mods?

[t_soarer]

Always see more cops around towards the end of the month...:nut:

[wes_v]

:facepalm: that is total shit, 2 traffic tickets per cruiser

[Cos]

it is public knowledge ( as discussed on here many times ) that there is no 'quota' just an unwritten rule that if you want a promotion in the future they look at you monthly record and if you miss too many dates they use that as an indication your slacking.

So do CPS officers HAVE to write tickets? No, should they if they ever want a promotion? You bet.

[blueToy]

Shed some light on what exactly ?

I pay the fucking cops to ticket people speeding . I'm glad they do . It's not that I don't go over occationally , shit happens . BUT , if we don't have cops handing out tickets , in no time at all we'd have every shit brained 16 year old trying to prove to the world he's such a stud for driving like a asshat . We already do .
Thank christ its kept in check by the occational person being pulled over and being made a example of , or causing him enough grief that he may think twice about driving recklessly . I'd actually wish there were more cops on the road .
I , like most people ,drive everyday . I can't count the times I've seen people doing stupid enough things that really could've caused a big crash .
Hell , I wish we had a quota . It wouldn't take long for every cop in this city to fill out a few ticket books . Why ? Because tons of people speed . Tons of people don't shoulder check .Tons of people don't use their signal lights . Ton's of people pay more attention to their conversation or texting on their cell phones they they pay to driving on the road . Tons of folks don't know better then to cross double yellow lines . And I could on and on .
One of the big reasons , as a whole ,we've become so shitty of drivers is that most people don't care . They could give a flying fuck about others on the road ,or those around them . They drive around with their heads up their ass . Wasn't it even yesterday near Okotoks that somebody rammed hard enough into a car STOPPED AT A STOP SIGN ON A MAJOR HIGHWAY , and hit it hard enough to push the vehicle into the path of a motorcycle , causing the cyclist to be currently near death and probably fucked for the rest of his life ?
I've been driving for a long time , before cell phones !! , and I've seen almost forty years of people getting worse at driving . What you don't see is the rammifications , unless you're a cop or a firefighter who have to wash away the blood , brains and guts after the fact .
Cars have become safer . Driving has become dumbed down so that even the dumbest blond , or somebody who can't even speak or write english can get their licence . Thank Allah we at the very least have some control over the chaos , or we'd be driving like they do in some backward ass third world country where human life has no value . Fuck .:clap:

[Trites]

It's not so much a quota...more or less the supervisors want to see their officers doing the jobs the tax payers are paying for.

Just driving to work in the morning from Sylvan Lake to downtown Red Deer I could hand out a dozen tickets if I was a cop in a ghost car. Speeding, red lights, seatbelts, driving like a general asshole. All kinds of stupid shit.

I don't really think 1 ticket per shift would count as a quota in my books. At least that way I know they are out on the streets working.

[BlackArcher101]

It's only a quota if they require a certain amount of tickets over a certain period of time (ie 30 tickets in a month). What you quoted isn't even close to that, only that it says 1 per shift. With what you quoted, there wouldn't be a time of the month when the number of tickets being written increases.

They've recognized traffic needs more enforcement and are enforcing internal guidelines that means everyone must do their part.

[CUG]

Their "performance expectation" is 20 per month. I promise on everything ;)

[TorqueDog]

They're giving people tickets for doing 7 over in a 70 zone. Like, really paltry shit they're going after.

This isn't about safety, it's about revenue.

Imagine if all the roads that were 70 and 80 KM/H in Calgary were suddenly dropped to 50 and 60 KM/H, respectively. That's what the speed limits are like in that city.

[B69]

Originally posted by blueToy
Shed some light on what exactly ?

I pay the fucking cops to ticket people speeding . I'm glad they do . It's not that I don't go over occationally , shit happens . BUT , if we don't have cops handing out tickets , in no time at all we'd have every shit brained 16 year old trying to prove to the world he's such a stud for driving like a asshat . We already do .
Thank christ its kept in check by the occational person being pulled over and being made a example of , or causing him enough grief that he may think twice about driving recklessly . I'd actually wish there were more cops on the road .
I , like most people ,drive everyday . I can't count the times I've seen people doing stupid enough things that really could've caused a big crash .
Hell , I wish we had a quota . It wouldn't take long for every cop in this city to fill out a few ticket books . Why ? Because tons of people speed . Tons of people don't shoulder check .Tons of people don't use their signal lights . Ton's of people pay more attention to their conversation or texting on their cell phones they they pay to driving on the road . Tons of folks don't know better then to cross double yellow lines . And I could on and on .
One of the big reasons , as a whole ,we've become so shitty of drivers is that most people don't care . They could give a flying fuck about others on the road ,or those around them . They drive around with their heads up their ass . Wasn't it even yesterday near Okotoks that somebody rammed hard enough into a car STOPPED AT A STOP SIGN ON A MAJOR HIGHWAY , and hit it hard enough to push the vehicle into the path of a motorcycle , causing the cyclist to be currently near death and probably fucked for the rest of his life ?
I've been driving for a long time , before cell phones !! , and I've seen almost forty years of people getting worse at driving . What you don't see is the rammifications , unless you're a cop or a firefighter who have to wash away the blood , brains and guts after the fact .
Cars have become safer . Driving has become dumbed down so that even the dumbest blond , or somebody who can't even speak or write english can get their licence . Thank Allah we at the very least have some control over the chaos , or we'd be driving like they do in some backward ass third world country where human life has no value . Fuck .:clap:

Very well put my friend.

[badatusrnames]

Originally posted by blueToy
Shed some light on what exactly ?

I pay the fucking cops to ticket people speeding . I'm glad they do . It's not that I don't go over occationally , shit happens . BUT , if we don't have cops handing out tickets , in no time at all we'd have every shit brained 16 year old trying to prove to the world he's such a stud for driving like a asshat . We already do .
Thank christ its kept in check by the occational person being pulled over and being made a example of , or causing him enough grief that he may think twice about driving recklessly . I'd actually wish there were more cops on the road .
I , like most people ,drive everyday . I can't count the times I've seen people doing stupid enough things that really could've caused a big crash .
Hell , I wish we had a quota . It wouldn't take long for every cop in this city to fill out a few ticket books . Why ? Because tons of people speed . Tons of people don't shoulder check .Tons of people don't use their signal lights . Ton's of people pay more attention to their conversation or texting on their cell phones they they pay to driving on the road . Tons of folks don't know better then to cross double yellow lines . And I could on and on .
One of the big reasons , as a whole ,we've become so shitty of drivers is that most people don't care . They could give a flying fuck about others on the road ,or those around them . They drive around with their heads up their ass . Wasn't it even yesterday near Okotoks that somebody rammed hard enough into a car STOPPED AT A STOP SIGN ON A MAJOR HIGHWAY , and hit it hard enough to push the vehicle into the path of a motorcycle , causing the cyclist to be currently near death and probably fucked for the rest of his life ?
I've been driving for a long time , before cell phones !! , and I've seen almost forty years of people getting worse at driving . What you don't see is the rammifications , unless you're a cop or a firefighter who have to wash away the blood , brains and guts after the fact .
Cars have become safer . Driving has become dumbed down so that even the dumbest blond , or somebody who can't even speak or write english can get their licence . Thank Allah we at the very least have some control over the chaos , or we'd be driving like they do in some backward ass third world country where human life has no value . Fuck .:clap:

As far as rambly rants with poor punctuation and no paragraphs go, that was pretty good.

[Toma]

Of course they have quotas... and they have big incentives to give tickets as well....

why? Court time!

Cops went bragging when I interviewed them how base salary was only such and such, but "with court time, you can add 30+%!!"

Revenue. Income. BULLSHIT.

Cops have no business giving traffic tickets. That job if necessary (which it's largely not) should be given to bylaw and the parking ticket goons.

The idea and thought that society would crumble into some sort of post apocalyptic anarchy if cops spent less time worrying about traffic BS, and more time catching criminals.... funny. :nut:

And I'll come out and say it... if you disagree, you are either a traffic cop, or a 2 cards short of a full deck.

[scat19]

If ya don't know, now ya know.

http://blog.seattlepi.com/themusiklounge/library/biggie-crown.jpg

[Pollywog]

Originally posted by Toma
Of course they have quotas... and they have big incentives to give tickets as well....

why? Court time!

Cops went bragging when I interviewed them how base salary was only such and such, but "with court time, you can add 30+%!!"

Revenue. Income. BULLSHIT.

Cops have no business giving traffic tickets. That job if necessary (which it's largely not) should be given to bylaw and the parking ticket goons.

The idea and thought that society would crumble into some sort of post apocalyptic anarchy if cops spent less time worrying about traffic BS, and more time catching criminals.... funny. :nut:

And I'll come out and say it... if you disagree, you are either a traffic cop, or a 2 cards short of a full deck.

Don't get too far ahead of yourself. I have three family members who actually work for the police force (one in calgary, two for VPD) and they would not agree. There is not ENOUGH crime going on in this town to justify the amount of cops we have to dedicate themselves just to criminal activity. In fact I don't think enough of them are delegated to traffic enforcement, as i'm getting sick of seeing cops pulled over yapping on cell phones or driving 115 on deerfoot and giving no one a ticket - especially for signal-less lane changes.

Regardless, you think by-law officers, and parking authority (who have NOTHING to do with the CPS btw) would do a better job enforcing traffic infractions (seat belts/speeding/etc)? Get a clue buddy.

Oath excerpt: "I will, to the best of my power, cause the peace to be kept and prevent all offences against the persons and properties of Her Majesty's subjects;"

In my opinion, keeping the peace and preventing offences against "the persons and properties of Her Majesty's subjects" would cover asshats flying down deerfoot, people changing lanes without signalling, and people driving drunk and putting my life in danger, etc. Wouldn't you agree?

I suppose you would rather the checkstops be enforced by parking authority?:thumbsup:

[CUG]

Originally posted by Toma
Of course they have quotas... and they have big incentives to give tickets as well....

why? Court time!

Cops went bragging when I interviewed them how base salary was only such and such, but "with court time, you can add 30+%!!"

Revenue. Income. BULLSHIT.

Cops have no business giving traffic tickets. That job if necessary (which it's largely not) should be given to bylaw and the parking ticket goons.

The idea and thought that society would crumble into some sort of post apocalyptic anarchy if cops spent less time worrying about traffic BS, and more time catching criminals.... funny. :nut:

And I'll come out and say it... if you disagree, you are either a traffic cop, or a 2 cards short of a full deck. This is the only thing I agree with you on. 30% however is a bit shy of the truth, I heard you can make well over 100K/year with pay duties and court time, which are all double time.

[Mar]

It's not a quota, it's a "do your job or get fired." This is pretty obvious, if you're out driving around all day as a cop and at the end of the month have given out zero tickets, obviously they're going to wonder what the hell you're doing all day and eventually you'll get fired. I don't think there's a set exact number for an amount, it's just as long as you keep up with everyone else.

[Toma]

Originally posted by CUG
This is the only thing I agree with you on. 30% however is a bit shy of the truth, I heard you can make well over 100K/year with pay duties and court time, which are all double time.

I know... I underestimated cause people have a hard time believing the 30% bit..... It is in actuality quite a bit more.

[JustGo]

Originally posted by Toma
Of course they have quotas... and they have big incentives to give tickets as well....

why? Court time!

Cops went bragging when I interviewed them how base salary was only such and such, but "with court time, you can add 30+%!!"

Revenue. Income. BULLSHIT.

Cops have no business giving traffic tickets. That job if necessary (which it's largely not) should be given to bylaw and the parking ticket goons.

The idea and thought that society would crumble into some sort of post apocalyptic anarchy if cops spent less time worrying about traffic BS, and more time catching criminals.... funny. :nut:

And I'll come out and say it... if you disagree, you are either a traffic cop, or a 2 cards short of a full deck.
I'd just like to say a couple quick things about this without getting too deep into it.

You did not interview every 'cop' in the city.

I'm sure some love court time.

I, however, enjoy my days off. So your theory that all cops have that incentive is way off base. Like I said, I'm sure some LOVE court time, but I bet just as many LOVE days off without having to get dressed up and go downtown. Especially the ones that live out of town, like Airdrie, Okotoks, Cochrane, etc... and there are a lot of them.

So, I do agree with you TO AN EXTENT, but I think you're going a little overkill with this rant, and stretching the reality quite a bit.

As far as bylaw or parking giving out the tickets? Bylaw and parking can barely hand out $50-100 tickets without people giving them a hard time. Could you IMAGINE a parking guy in his fur hat trying to give someone a $230 ticket for driving an unregistered vehicle? People wouldn't even STOP for Bylaw or parking guys... seriously. Those guys get no respect. I'm not saying the police are so much better, or how they're so awesome... I'm just being honest, I've seen how people treat Bylaw and parking guys. I wasn't born a cop.

And finally, if giving traffic tickets was not necessary, or effective, you should do a survey of how many people received a ticket, then kept driving the same way they were driving before the ticket. I guarantee you it wouldn't be all of them. If ten tickets are handed out, and 7 or 8 of those people (likely percentage) learned from it, and slowed down, used their signals, or fixed whatever bad habit they were into, it may not save an accident that day, but I am 100% sure that there have been accidents prevented by tickets. And since, unfortunately, we don't have a crystal ball, we can't predict the exact cars that are going to cause those accidents, so we can't target them specifically.

[Cos]

Originally posted by Mar
It's not a quota, it's a "do your job or get fired." This is pretty obvious, if you're out driving around all day as a cop and at the end of the month have given out zero tickets, obviously they're going to wonder what the hell you're doing all day and eventually you'll get fired. I don't think there's a set exact number for an amount, it's just as long as you keep up with everyone else.

actually when I went on my ride along the officer I asked about quotas used that EXACT explanation.... hmmmmm

I wonder.......

;)

[revelations]

This is not news. Its been stated many times on Beyond that the CPS ***TRAFFIC*** division has a quota system for their members. Last I heard it was 20 VTs a shift.

Note this does NOT apply to ***REGULAR*** CPS members who are busy dealing with other types of crime (as opposed to the "crime" of speeding, etc.).

With the RCMP, we had a one roadside contact per shift request (not a quota).

So that meant we, at some point during the shift (usually first thing), pull a vehicle over (eg. rolling a stop sign) and give them a written warning - OR - if the driver was a douchebag, they were given a douchebag ticket.

[natejj]

Wait... your telling me... police are... expected to do their job... a MINIMUM of once per shift?!?!? THE HORROR!

:facepalm:

[A790]

Originally posted by natejj
Wait... your telling me... police are... expected to do their job... a MINIMUM of once per shift?!?!? THE HORROR!

:facepalm:

Fucking :werd:

[403Gemini]

Originally posted by blueToy
Shed some light on what exactly ?

I pay the fucking cops to ticket people speeding . I'm glad they do . It's not that I don't go over occationally , shit happens . BUT , if we don't have cops handing out tickets , in no time at all we'd have every shit brained 16 year old trying to prove to the world he's such a stud for driving like a asshat . We already do .
Thank christ its kept in check by the occational person being pulled over and being made a example of , or causing him enough grief that he may think twice about driving recklessly . I'd actually wish there were more cops on the road .
I , like most people ,drive everyday . I can't count the times I've seen people doing stupid enough things that really could've caused a big crash .
Hell , I wish we had a quota . It wouldn't take long for every cop in this city to fill out a few ticket books . Why ? Because tons of people speed . Tons of people don't shoulder check .Tons of people don't use their signal lights . Ton's of people pay more attention to their conversation or texting on their cell phones they they pay to driving on the road . Tons of folks don't know better then to cross double yellow lines . And I could on and on .
One of the big reasons , as a whole ,we've become so shitty of drivers is that most people don't care . They could give a flying fuck about others on the road ,or those around them . They drive around with their heads up their ass . Wasn't it even yesterday near Okotoks that somebody rammed hard enough into a car STOPPED AT A STOP SIGN ON A MAJOR HIGHWAY , and hit it hard enough to push the vehicle into the path of a motorcycle , causing the cyclist to be currently near death and probably fucked for the rest of his life ?
I've been driving for a long time , before cell phones !! , and I've seen almost forty years of people getting worse at driving . What you don't see is the rammifications , unless you're a cop or a firefighter who have to wash away the blood , brains and guts after the fact .
Cars have become safer . Driving has become dumbed down so that even the dumbest blond , or somebody who can't even speak or write english can get their licence . Thank Allah we at the very least have some control over the chaos , or we'd be driving like they do in some backward ass third world country where human life has no value . Fuck .:clap:


:werd:

[Revhard]

I pay taxes to have police do more than hand out tickets. They are suppose to investigate theft, shootings,murder,etc. Catch at least a few gang members and keep them locked up. How about a drug-bust quota?
It's not like I don't want assholes caught on the road, but just because it's easy to give speeding tickets, doesn't mean it is the only thing I would like kept track of as far as performance. If they would pay their own wages, then go nuts, sure. If I'm paying, let's get some variety of filth dealt with, not just the highly murderous, 15km/h over speed junkies!!!:guns:

[snoop101]

IMO the issue isnt about if they do or do not have a quota or if they do there work or not. Its the fact that because they have the quota it forces them to sit in areas that tend to be safe, but they know they can pull over a lof of people. Like 4 lane highways where the speed changes every few blocks. Crowchild is one of them. Places like parks and schools and even places around the ctrain stations where theres a high density of people walking around just get ignored.

On a side note. I been living here for just about 5 years and never been through a road block, but In BC I used to go through a road block about 3-4 times a week. Not to sure why there isnt more road blocks here, since they can catch the people that need to be off the road like drunks, instead of pulling of some nice old man who is going 10km over on the highway. (I was going to say soccer mom, but they drive like a bat outa hell sometimes)

[cloud7]

Quota is not the problem. Everybody makes mistakes includes police officers when driving. There should be a balance between giving tickets out to everything they see and not giving out tickets at all. Overall, I think most police officers in Calgary are doing a good job to achieve that balance.

[403Gemini]

Originally posted by Revhard
I pay taxes to have police do more than hand out tickets. They are suppose to investigate theft, shootings,murder,etc. Catch at least a few gang members and keep them locked up. How about a drug-bust quota?
It's not like I don't want assholes caught on the road, but just because it's easy to give speeding tickets, doesn't mean it is the only thing I would like kept track of as far as performance. If they would pay their own wages, then go nuts, sure. If I'm paying, let's get some variety of filth dealt with, not just the highly murderous, 15km/h over speed junkies!!!:guns:

The cops handing out the tickets aren't the cops who are investigating shootings, murder, etc. The police have special teams to handle such things. The cops you see every day on the roads are the patrolling officers to catch people doing things like speeding / attending to break and enter calls, etc.

A drug bust quota would be nice - but you can thank canadian laws which protect criminals from having their doors kicked in. You wouldn't believe how many cops know where grow ops are or drug dealers are, but can't do a damn thing about it because the law is protecting the criminals.

I don't complain about tickets since I rarely speed. I always get a laugh when I think back that when I was 18 with my 89 integra I sped around more back then than I do now with a car with well over double the horsepower as the integra.

don't like getting pulled over? Don't speed :dunno:

[natejj]

Originally posted by Revhard
I pay taxes to have police do more than hand out tickets. They are suppose to investigate theft, shootings,murder,etc. Catch at least a few gang members and keep them locked up. How about a drug-bust quota?
It's not like I don't want assholes caught on the road, but just because it's easy to give speeding tickets, doesn't mean it is the only thing I would like kept track of as far as performance. If they would pay their own wages, then go nuts, sure. If I'm paying, let's get some variety of filth dealt with, not just the highly murderous, 15km/h over speed junkies!!!:guns:

A drug bust quota? I hope thats a joke... do you have any idea how crowded the prison system would get, on top of how bad it is right now, with a bunch of harmless people who were taking part in some recreational drugs, and doing no harm to anybody but themselves? Cops would be busting people for the stupidest shit if you had your way.

And as for keeping them locked up, the cops have no part in that, that's our revolving door legal system's job.

I think everyone can agree, including cops, that they would rather be doing real police work and investigating murders and assaults, but while they are waiting for a follow up, or some evidence to be processed, whats the harm in catching a few speeders?

[Revhard]

I don't have a single speeding ticket, ever in my life. Waste of money.
I never once said put drug scum behind bars, just fine them to their eyeballs. Easy money.
The whole law thing is a slippery slope. Getting radar and cameras is a funny thing. I don't get pulled over or given tickets, I'm way too cheap.
That's not the problem. I didn't leave Calgary because of the speeding, I left because the cops have no control or idea about the crime and gangs.
I know patrol cops aren't doing murder investigations per say, but whoever is hiring/training, maybe adjust the priorities a bit.
Seriously, the speeding is so minor compared to murder,etc. I don't care if it's not the easy answer, it's the problem.
I agree, don't speed, that is real simple. But, then what would all of the police units do? Hand out jaywalking infractions?

[Traffic_Cop]

CPS Traffic Enforcement has a "performance expectation"...that is 25 tickets per shift or 1 impaired driver counts as 10.

CPS general duties (district guys) have a "performance expectation" of 20 tickets per month. Again, some people think this is easy, however if you stuck on a domestic for 10hrs, or have to stand at a collison scene for hours on end, obviously you arent going to writing your 20.

Pretty much it boils down to "if you arent going to calls, get off your butt and go do some pro-active police work".

RCMP do NOT have any kind of "quota". Generally its just the bigger cities.

[Pollywog]

Originally posted by 403Gemini
A drug bust quota would be nice

You are what is wrong with society.

[snoop101]

Originally posted by Traffic_Cop
CPS Traffic Enforcement has a "performance expectation"...that is 25 tickets per shift or 1 impaired driver counts as 10.

CPS general duties (district guys) have a "performance expectation" of 20 tickets per month. Again, some people think this is easy, however if you stuck on a domestic for 10hrs, or have to stand at a collison scene for hours on end, obviously you arent going to writing your 20.

Pretty much it boils down to "if you arent going to calls, get off your butt and go do some pro-active police work".

RCMP do NOT have any kind of "quota". Generally its just the bigger cities.

So do cops then get scared to loose there jobs and just goto areas that they know they can rack up the tickets? (im actually asking a question and not being sarcastic)

I know its not the cops that are the issue and some people seem to think its the actually cops that are the issue. Its the people above them. They have a quota so that the cps can make the money to keep the police on the streets. The problem is that it turns the whole im giving you a ticket for speeding because im here to promote safety and turn it into, im giving you a ticket because if I dont im I get in shit.

I got speeding tickets before that I agreed with and told the cop ya i was going over the speed limit and I knew there was an accident in the same spot a month ago. I also got a ticket on a major highway that everyone was flowing with the traffic, but the cop seemed to like the young guy in the BMW. I fought it in court and got off.

I think the Calgary police would give its self such a good image if it started setting up speed traps in school zones and park zones.

[TorqueDog]

From Traffic_Cop's signature:

20% of fatals are speed related
--------

So really, that means 80% of fatalities aren't speed related. So why don't we worry about people cocking about on the road in more significant ways (as the 80% suggests) than someone doing 10-15 over?

[JustGo]

Originally posted by Revhard
I pay taxes to have police do more than hand out tickets. They are suppose to investigate theft, shootings,murder,etc. Catch at least a few gang members and keep them locked up. How about a drug-bust quota?
It's not like I don't want assholes caught on the road, but just because it's easy to give speeding tickets, doesn't mean it is the only thing I would like kept track of as far as performance. If they would pay their own wages, then go nuts, sure. If I'm paying, let's get some variety of filth dealt with, not just the highly murderous, 15km/h over speed junkies!!!:guns:
Uhm, last time I checked I pay just as many taxes as you, which means I DO pay my own wages. Just as much as you, as a matter of fact. Do you have to pay your own wages? I don't think so. So you can go ahead and avoid playing that card again in the future.

[Traffic_Cop]

Originally posted by TorqueDog
From Traffic_Cop's signature:

20% of fatals are speed related
--------

So really, that means 80% of fatalities aren't speed related. So why don't we worry about people cocking about on the road in more significant ways (as the 80% suggests) than someone doing 10-15 over?

So with your logic.......If this were true:- If one in 4 drivers involved in an accident were drunk......that means drunk drivers are better drivers than sober ones??.

[revelations]

Originally posted by Revhard
Seriously, the speeding is so minor compared to murder,etc. I don't care if it's not the easy answer, it's the problem.
I agree, don't speed, that is real simple. But, then what would all of the police units do? Hand out jaywalking infractions?

I agree with what youre saying, but realize that the Traffic division gets requests all the time from Joe/Jane public asking them to do speed traps at certain locations - same for photo radar.

[atgilchrist]

Originally posted by Traffic_Cop


So with your logic.......If this were true:- If one in 4 drivers involved in an accident were drunk......that means drunk drivers are better drivers than sober ones??.

No he was saying that increased attention should be payed to other forms of bad driving that accounts for 4/5 fatalities (such as tailgating, weaving, intoxicated, etc). These are admittedly harder to enforce. This isn't saying speeders are better drivers, only that they aren't the only bad drivers.

edit: not saying speeding is good, just that there are many hazards on the road, of which speeding is one.

[Thomas Gabriel]

Originally posted by 403Gemini

don't like getting pulled over? Don't speed :dunno:

Don't like getting shot? Don't protest. :dunno:
Don't like getting beheaded? Don't talk to women on the street. :dunno:
Don't like disappearing? Don't write about the government on your blog. :dunno:

There is a certain limit to obedience of the law, and citizens need to decide what that limit is. When traffic fines become a significant source of revenue for the government, and new police are hired just for traffic enforcement, it starts to become not OK. Traffic is just the beginning. Calgary is still relatively free, but places like the UK aren't at all. It would be horrible to live there. I just hope Calgary doesn't follow the same path that the UK did (although in the last 10 years it certainly has begun to).

[Sugarphreak]

...

[TorqueDog]

Originally posted by Traffic_Cop
So with your logic.......If this were true:- If one in 4 drivers involved in an accident were drunk......that means drunk drivers are better drivers than sober ones??. My, aren't we clever... no. :facepalm:

Originally posted by atgilchrist
No he was saying that increased attention should be payed to other forms of bad driving that accounts for 4/5 fatalities (such as tailgating, weaving, intoxicated, etc). These are admittedly harder to enforce. This isn't saying speeders are better drivers, only that they aren't the only bad drivers.

edit: not saying speeding is good, just that there are many hazards on the road, of which speeding is one. This.


Your drunk driver/sober driver example fails miserably on account that there are more than 4 drivers in the population. You'd have take the total number of sober drivers divided by the total number of accidents involving sober drivers to get your %. Then do the same with drunk drivers and drunk drivers who have collisions. The overall ratio would be far greater with drunk drivers, and there are less of them on the whole, which would point to them being more prone to having a collision.


Although if you really wanted to take your signature statistics seriously (I'm being facetious here), we could draw the following conclusions:

24% of non seatbelt wearers account for 40% of all vehicle occupants killed - Don't wear your seatbelt, as 60% of all vehicle occupants killed are wearing their seatbelt. 20% advantage to seatbelt non-wearers.

3% of impaired drivers account for 30% of all drivers killed - Hire a drunk driver; 3% doing 30% of the work is rather impressive.

14% of fatalities at intersections - Only drive through intersections; 86% of fatalities occur when people are not in intersections. If you see a straight road, pull over and get out immediately - push your car to the next intersection.

20% of fatals are speed related - Speed and you'll only have a 20% chance of a death occurring in an accident with someone, versus an 80% chance when you're not speeding.

[B4tMan]

Originally posted by Traffic_Cop
20% of fatals are speed related

Your signature intrigues. Speeders are less likely to die in comparisons to non speeders in case of an accident :)

[JustGo]

Originally posted by B4tMan


Your signature intrigues. Speeders are less likely to die in comparisons to non speeders in case of an accident :)
If there are 100 deaths due to accidents, and 20 of those were speed related, not speeding would have saved 20 lives.

When you speak in terms of percentages and statistics, it loses meaning. When you speak in terms of life and death, it makes a bit more sense.

:thumbsup:

[Sugarphreak]

....

[TorqueDog]

Originally posted by JustGo
If there are 100 deaths due to accidents, and 20 of those were speed related, not speeding would have saved 20 lives.

When you speak in terms of percentages and statistics, it loses meaning. When you speak in terms of life and death, it makes a bit more sense.

:thumbsup: If there are 100 deaths due to accidents, and 80 of those were not speed related, speeding could have saved 80 lives! I like mine better!

And you can't say "would have saved", it's "could". There's no guarantee not speeding would have mitigated the accident.

[JimmyBurner]

This is all bullshit. I pay taxes so cops do their fuckin jobs. Pulling people over for doing 7 over and expecting them to pay 150 bucks isn't doing their jobs. I'm basically paying cops to pull me over and make me pay more cops. It's obviously all for revenue, and they get the orders from higher up but using the "I'm just doing my job as a traffic cop" excuse is still pathetic to me. I'd rather see my tax money go towards cops catching the crackhead who just broke into Joe Blow's car or the pedophiles in the bushes at the fuckin park where my kid's play, because maybe, just maybe, they may be more dangerous than me not wearing a seatbelt. Corruption at it's finest, it's all a part of how the world works, but it's still fuckin annoying, because the driver's that need to be bent over are the ones eating/texting/doing makeup/jerking off/trying to tell the 3 kids in the back to shutup.

[JustGo]

Originally posted by TorqueDog
If there are 100 deaths due to accidents, and 80 of those were not speed related, speeding could have saved 80 lives! I like mine better!

And you can't say "would have saved", it's "could". There's no guarantee not speeding would have mitigated the accident.
This is true, I stand corrected.

Generally speaking, however, if an accident is 'speed related', that means speeding was a main factor in the collision/fatality, therefore if you remove the main contributing factor, there is a pretty good chance it would have been avoided.

[JustGo]

Originally posted by JimmyBurner
This is all bullshit. I pay taxes so cops do their fuckin jobs. Pulling people over for doing 7 over and expecting them to pay 150 bucks isn't doing their jobs. I'm basically paying cops to pull me over and make me pay more cops. It's obviously all for revenue, and they get the orders from higher up but using the "I'm just doing my job as a traffic cop" excuse is still pathetic to me. I'd rather see my tax money go towards cops catching the crackhead who just broke into Joe Blow's car or the pedophiles in the bushes at the fuckin park where my kid's play, because maybe, just maybe, they may be more dangerous than me not wearing a seatbelt. Corruption at it's finest, it's all a part of how the world works, but it's still fuckin annoying, because the driver's that need to be bent over are the ones eating/texting/doing makeup/jerking off/trying to tell the 3 kids in the back to shutup.
7 over isn't $150.
7 over would be less than half that, as 10 over is $89.

Also, I'm sure police would rather catch every crackhead, too.

However, whomever told you we have a magic wand that we can wave to collect substantial evidence, they lied to you. There is only so much the police can do.

Not every police officer sets up radar traps, and writes borderline tickets. Some do, but a lot don't. Some guys really do like handing out a lot of tickets, and again, a lot don't.

So to get on a soap box about how 'cops' aren't doing their jobs, it's just ridiculous. Most days I don't even have time to eat lunch, let alone try and ruin some poor guys day for doing 7 km/h over the speed limit.

I like how it's politically incorrect to stereotype a race, or gender... but it's fine... even popular, to stereotype police officers as lazy, donut eating, ticket writing a-holes. With every job, you're going to get some a-holes, it's the world we live in... but you can't paint them all with the same brush.

[Toma]

Originally posted by TorqueDog
If there are 100 deaths due to accidents, and 80 of those were not speed related, speeding could have saved 80 lives! I like mine better!

And you can't say "would have saved", it's "could". There's no guarantee not speeding would have mitigated the accident.

I think he is a cop.... his statistics courses probably ended in high school..... not to mention understanding the difference between causality, probability and correlation.

That's not fair I guess... cheap shot .... half of Beyond often seems lost on the concepts.

[Revhard]

Originally posted by JustGo

Uhm, last time I checked I pay just as many taxes as you, which means I DO pay my own wages. Just as much as you, as a matter of fact. Do you have to pay your own wages? I don't think so. So you can go ahead and avoid playing that card again in the future.

I didn't mean personally, I meant figuratively. Like, as if the number of tickets would help reduce police funding by tax dollars. It doesn't though, so that's why I'm saying it's B.S.
My wage is paid mostly by tax dollars also. As are my wife's.
I don't hate Police, I just think that all of the tickets thrown out by the JP, should not have wasted valuable Police time in giving them. Now we have 2 guys doing the job 1 is paid to do without prejudice. I can understand how you would get quite upset and take some of this personally, but you have a relatively thankless job. If you are giving thousands of borderline tickets, it comes with the territory. If you aren't, get into another area of law enforcement, and forget all of this B.S.

[JustGo]

Originally posted by Toma


I think he is a cop.... his statistics courses probably ended in high school..... not to mention understanding the difference between causality, probability and correlation.

That's not fair I guess... cheap shot .... half of Beyond often seems lost on the concepts.
Considering I already responded, and corrected myself, I think your statement is unfair.

And it is a bit of a cheap shot. I never once took any shots at anyone, or personally insulted anyone's intelligence. But for whatever reason, you may feel the need to use the internet to take shots at someone you don't even know. That's cool. I'll find a way to sleep tonight... somehow... :D

[JustGo]

Originally posted by Revhard


I didn't mean personally, I meant figuratively. Like, as if the number of tickets would help reduce police funding by tax dollars. It doesn't though, so that's why I'm saying it's B.S.
My wage is paid mostly by tax dollars also. As are my wife's.
I don't hate Police, I just think that all of the tickets thrown out by the JP, should not have wasted valuable Police time in giving them. Now we have 2 guys doing the job 1 is paid to do without prejudice. I can understand how you would get quite upset and take some of this personally, but you have a relatively thankless job. If you are giving thousands of borderline tickets, it comes with the territory. If you aren't, get into another area of law enforcement, and forget all of this B.S.
I don't doubt there are a lot of borderline tickets out there, and I see the point everyone is making. I don't think we should have an 'expectation' either. If we see something worthy of a ticket, it should be handed out. We shouldn't have to go out hunting for very minor infractions that, let's face it, most of us commit on the way to work every day.

As far as the courts go, they throw out a bunch of tickets. Some that really shouldn't be thrown out. That doesn't mean they weren't a valuable lesson to the person, though. I personally don't take any offense when one of my tickets gets tossed... I had a chance to talk with the person, and explain what they did wrong when I issued it. That's half the punishment right there, having to talk to me in the first place! hahaha

[Sugarphreak]

....

[FraserB]

Just curious here, don't answer if this is out of line completely. What districts do you guys work in? Do you notice a difference in amount of traffic violations based on location?

[JustGo]

Originally posted by FraserB
Just curious here, don't answer if this is out of line completely. What districts do you guys work in? Do you notice a difference in amount of traffic violations based on location?
I think it would be fair to say there would be different types of infractions based on District... I mean, the different areas and roads... like downtown would have more red light runners, or non-signallers... whereas the NW, 3 and 7 district would have more speeding with Crowchild and Deerfoot...

I guess it really depends, never thought about it.

I would imagine it all balances out.

[2Valve0]

I hate tickets, but if you break the law you should pay :burnout:

[sjaswal]

Originally posted by blueToy
Shed some light on what exactly ?

"imagine shit coming out of a pig".....Thank Allah we at the very least have some control over the chaos , or we'd be driving like they do in some backward ass third world country where human life has no value . Fuck .:clap:

Thank Allah????
It was an "allah thanker" with his "CD" hanging in the rearview mirror of his honda civic that passed me on the inside probably doing 160+, forcing me onto the shoulder of the highway to avoid a collision (fucking swine would have hit me and the car beside me on the right).

[TorqueDog]

Originally posted by JustGo
This is true, I stand corrected.

Generally speaking, however, if an accident is 'speed related', that means speeding was a main factor in the collision/fatality, therefore if you remove the main contributing factor, there is a pretty good chance it would have been avoided. That still leaves 80% of accidents contributed to by other shit that we could be chasing.

Going off that statistic, you're chasing the lesser of two evils. Of course, as I've demonstrated, statistics can be borderline useless when not properly put into context. :)

[Cos]

Originally posted by TorqueDog
That still leaves 80% of accidents contributed to by other shit that we could be chasing.


I think what he is arguing is that speed could still be a factor in those remaining 80%, it is just not the MAIN factor. I.E. 20% are retards speeding and spinning out into the ditch or taking an off ramp too fast. Where as following to close and speeding would be following too close, not speeding.

[aypi]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


Hmmm, I have gone through at least 100 speed traps doing about 9 or 10 over... never been pulled over.... photo radar cameras don't even take a picture at that speed.

If somebody is getting pulled over for doing 7 over the limit there are a handful of reasons to explain it;

1) You have one or an assortment of retarded aftermarket products on your car (included are such things as underglow, giant spoilers, 100db mufflers, giant fake hood scoops, carbon fiber hoods, yellow fog lights aimed at the sky, duct taped body work)

2) You just did something really fucking stupid like cut somebody off, driving in two lanes or perhaps did a one second lane change.

3) You have many friends hanging out the window yelling at other cars passing by

4) or the catch all; you look like a sketchy freak that is likely up to something.

I dont think so man, coz my mom got a ticket with a photo radar camera a few months ago going 7 over the limit. she was only doing 57 on a 50 zone? :dunno:

i think the ticket was $120ish.

[Cos]

Originally posted by aypi


I dont think so man, coz my mom got a ticket with a photo radar camera a few months ago going 7 over the limit. she was only doing 57 on a 50 zone? :dunno:

i think the ticket was $120ish.

if it was a construction zone then speed fines double.

[FraserB]

Originally posted by aypi


I dont think so man, coz my mom got a ticket with a photo radar camera a few months ago going 7 over the limit. she was only doing 57 on a 50 zone? :dunno:

i think the ticket was $120ish.

I got hit with photo radar going 16 over in a playground zone and was only $89. Must have been a construction zone.

[TorqueDog]

Originally posted by Cos
I think what he is arguing is that speed could still be a factor in those remaining 80%, it is just not the MAIN factor. I.E. 20% are retards speeding and spinning out into the ditch or taking an off ramp too fast. Where as following to close and speeding would be following too close, not speeding. With the love our society has of crucifying speeders as bringing AIDS to North America, killing kittens, and getting our nation's children addicted to crack, I can't imagine that speed wouldn't be attributed as the main factor in almost any crash if there was even a slight trace of it.

Especially in Manitoba. They have plenty of 'Speed Kills' adverts but can't seem to get the "Hey asshat, quit talking on the phone or you're going to end up killing someone" advert out, or the "Your makeup can wait, pay attention" spot.

[Toma]

Originally posted by TorqueDog
With the love our society has of crucifying speeders as bringing AIDS to North America, killing kittens, and getting our nation's children addicted to crack, I can't imagine that speed wouldn't be attributed as the main factor in almost any crash if there was even a slight trace of it.

Especially in Manitoba. They have plenty of 'Speed Kills' adverts but can't seem to get the "Hey asshat, quit talking on the phone or you're going to end up killing someone" advert out, or the "Your makeup can wait, pay attention" spot.

What they also don't mention is, often, in studies I have read... an accident involving speed, alcohol and stupidity, will get counted in all three categories.

They have to maintain the BS that it's safetey this, bullshit that.... When your goal is to make money, you ahve to sell it as safety. Simple.

It's like tickets and insurance claims.... they lump em together as if it were a causal relationship, when in fact... it's not even close.... and why not from a BUSINESS point of view? After all, it excuses ridiculous gouging and profit.

[Traffic_Cop]

Originally posted by Toma


What they also don't mention is, often, in studies I have read... an accident involving speed, alcohol and stupidity, will get counted in all three categories.

They have to maintain the BS that it's safetey this, bullshit that.... When your goal is to make money, you ahve to sell it as safety. Simple.

It's like tickets and insurance claims.... they lump em together as if it were a causal relationship, when in fact... it's not even close.... and why not from a BUSINESS point of view? After all, it excuses ridiculous gouging and profit.

Actually you are incorrect. The PRIMARY cause is the one that is counted. So an impaired fatal at high speed and with driver with no seatbelt would be classified as an alcohol related death, as this is the primary cause.

And Toma...the Governments spend millions on traffic safety plans ie VISION 2010. It is not all about revenues etc that you seem to think it is. We actually loose money on processing impaired drivers.

Traffic saftey and enforcement is always the top concern for citizens and at neighbour meetings. If you can suggets a better way for enforcing these laws, without violating someones rights, id love to hear it, and so would the governments.

[Speedy]

Originally posted by Toma


What they also don't mention is, often, in studies I have read... an accident involving speed, alcohol and stupidity, will get counted in all three categories.

They have to maintain the BS that it's safetey this, bullshit that.... When your goal is to make money, you ahve to sell it as safety. Simple.

It's like tickets and insurance claims.... they lump em together as if it were a causal relationship, when in fact... it's not even close.... and why not from a BUSINESS point of view? After all, it excuses ridiculous gouging and profit.

If the goal was to simply gouge and make more money why do they let you go down and negotiate a lesser payment. Its not like they let you do that with your taxes!

Personally I think its bullshit, if you did the crime pay the time. Why should you be able to go down to the crown and whine your way to a reduced fine. Its supposed to be a deterrent, how are people supposed to learn if we keep letting them off.

[Toma]

No, actually, I am not.... while at the U, I reviewed some government of Alberta and Canada statistics and they were often multi classified.... probably BECAUSE, more often than not no true reason for the accident can be found. All factors MAY have contributed... whether the accident would have been avoided at a lower speed, with no alcohol etc is very often pure conjecture.

Best example I can give is.... the GF insists she wants slurpee at midnight.... you are tired of her bitching, dont really want to go, but you do, and get in an accident. According the the government, and some insruance companies, your girlfriend being a bitch would have been classified as a contributing factor to the accident.... too much conjecture and guess work.

In fact, recent studies show that being a little tired is much more detrimental to reflexes and driving skill than a blood alcohol level of 0.05 to .08! But you don't hear the IDIOTS at MADD canada insisting on suspensions for being tired.

Also, it is very often NOT the police that make these determinations. It is the insurance companies, investigators, lawyers/courts etc....

And if you SERIOUSLY believe the rest... then you subscribe to the philosophy that people need babysitting and society would crumble to chaos if we had fewer rules, and more freedoms..... and of course, I absolutely disagree as a core fundamental belief... hence why we will always be on opposite sides of this fence.




Originally posted by Traffic_Cop


Actually you are incorrect. The PRIMARY cause is the one that is counted. So an impaired fatal at high speed and with driver with no seatbelt would be classified as an alcohol related death, as this is the primary cause.

And Toma...the Governments spend millions on traffic safety plans ie VISION 2010. It is not all about revenues etc that you seem to think it is. We actually loose money on processing impaired drivers.

Traffic saftey and enforcement is always the top concern for citizens and at neighbour meetings. If you can suggets a better way for enforcing these laws, without violating someones rights, id love to hear it, and so would the governments.

[Toma]

Originally posted by Speedy



Personally I think its bullshit, if you did the crime pay the time. Why should you be able to go down to the crown and whine your way to a reduced fine. Its supposed to be a deterrent, how are people supposed to learn if we keep letting them off.
Speeding is not a crime.

Stealing, rape, murder... those are crimes... ie, these acts have a definite and definable victim.

Speeding does not. Speeding is one of those "if you speed, there is a .00001% PROBABILITY that you will crash your car, and a further .0001% PROBABILITY that you will hurt someone".

Ie, its a victimless "crime" with nothing more then Orwellian/Minority Report style "what iffs" attached....

And of course, backed by BULLSHIT 'safety' statistics.

Ditto most our other traffic "laws"....ie, is there a REALLY a difference between coming to a complete stop at a stop sign versus, slowing down to whatever speed is required for you to ascertain that it is safe to proceed.

[snoop101]

Originally posted by Toma

Speeding is not a crime.

Stealing, rape, murder... those are crimes... ie, these acts have a definite and definable victim.

Speeding does not. Speeding is one of those "if you speed, there is a .00001% PROBABILITY that you will crash your car, and a further .0001% PROBABILITY that you will hurt someone".

Ie, its a victimless "crime" with nothing more then Orwellian/Minority Report style "what iffs" attached....

And of course, backed by BULLSHIT 'safety' statistics.

Ditto most our other traffic "laws"....ie, is there a REALLY a difference between coming to a complete stop at a stop sign versus, slowing down to whatever speed is required for you to ascertain that it is safe to proceed.


I agree. Also the fact that most of are speed limits are based on facts from the 60's and 70's where they had unsafe shitty vehicles. You cant compare a $50k vehicle build in the last year to a 70's gas guzzler with a big engine, crappy brakes, and no safety features at all.

I undertsand that those vehicles are still on the road, but they shouldent be and thats why other countries have strict rules on that.

[Revhard]

Also the reason the US is currently testing 80 mph speed limits in certain areas to see if there are any more accidents there than in 60/65/70/75mph zones. Interesting how it used to be 55, now you see 70&75 mph zones on freeways. 110km/h in Alberta? Hmmm...
Anyway, back to regular programming!:D

[max_boost]

Who's sig had this quote from a Montana Officer?


I don't give tickets for speeding, I give tickets to those who are doing stupid shit while speeding

Something like that, the point is, I'm all for giving out fines but it should be warranted.

Speeding while going with the flow of traffic, no ticket.

Speeding while weaving in and out of traffic, ticket.

Speeding in play ground zones, ticket.

Speeding in construction zones, depends.

Just saying man, handing out tickets for going 7kms over is fucking retarded lol

[5hift]

Originally posted by JustGo

I like how it's politically incorrect to stereotype a race, or gender... but it's fine... even popular, to stereotype police officers as lazy, donut eating, ticket writing a-holes. With every job, you're going to get some a-holes, it's the world we live in... but you can't paint them all with the same brush.

So your saying because racism/sexism isnt politically correct, stereotyping a job shouldnt be either?

A police officer isnt like every job unfortunetely. Whether you Phil and Dayglow will admit it or not, most cops fit their stereotype to a T. Yes with everyjob you get aholes, but if the kid at McDonalds doesnt like me the worst he can do is spit in my food. If the cop doesnt like me he can use his position to do alot more than just ruin my day.

If you disagree with me, go to a Police station in the NE dressed in street clothes on a busy day and stand in line. Just watch how the cops their treat people coming in to file accident reports etc as criminals. That is if they are willing to even get up from their chairs.

And this talk about you not even having time for lunch? Maybe you take your job more serious than most. As an example, I was having lunch with a friend at that Timmies/Wendys in Westhills recently. Talking/catching up and it took about 40ish mins to a hour. There were four cops just chatting there the entire time. I'm pretty sure everyone can think of several times they saw cops on duty just sitting around for long periods of time. I realize they need lunch/breaks just like everyone else, but dont make it out to look like you guys give your lives to serve the city.

[Trites]

Originally posted by 5hift


So your saying because racism/sexism isnt politically correct, stereotyping a job shouldnt be either?

A police officer isnt like every job unfortunetely. Whether you Phil and Dayglow will admit it or not, most cops fit their stereotype to a T. Yes with everyjob you get aholes, but if the kid at McDonalds doesnt like me the worst he can do is spit in my food. If the cop doesnt like me he can use his position to do alot more than just ruin my day.

If you disagree with me, go to a Police station in the NE dressed in street clothes on a busy day and stand in line. Just watch how the cops their treat people coming in to file accident reports etc as criminals. That is if they are willing to even get up from their chairs.

And this talk about you not even having time for lunch? Maybe you take your job more serious than most. As an example, I was having lunch with a friend at that Timmies/Wendys in Westhills recently. Talking/catching up and it took about 40ish mins to a hour. There were four cops just chatting there the entire time. I'm pretty sure everyone can think of several times they saw cops on duty just sitting around for long periods of time. I realize they need lunch/breaks just like everyone else, but dont make it out to look like you guys give your lives to serve the city.

I would say some police officers fit their stereotypes, however the majority do not. I live in Sylvan Lake, and I work in Red Deer. Through my work I know many of the RCMP officers in both of these detachments. The majority of the ones you see on the streets in Sylvan and Red Deer are younger men and women in their mid 20's to mid 30's. The majority of them are in good shape.

The job police officers do is a thankless one. I guess when it comes down to it, if a cop wants to eat a donut, have at it. I like donuts, most people do, so who cares if they have one? Fuck it.

And as for the "giving their lives to serve the city" comment. I disagree with you 100%. I don't know what you do for a living and I don't care. There is an element of society that want police officers dead, and are more then willing to take a police officers life, simply for the job that officer performs. Simply for the ideals and laws they uphold and what they represent. Can you say the same about your job? When there is a guy who goes off his rocker and stabs someone and won't drop the knife...are you going to put your life at risk to stop him? Or are you going to let the officer do it because he/she is more then willing to because its their job? They do put their lives on the line every day. A friend of mine is an RCMP officer in Red Deer. He got hit by a semi truck on Highway 2 on Friday morning while directing traffic away from a truck that was on fire. He's ok, luckally he ran out of the way and the semi only hit his leg. But if he wasn't on the ball he'd probably be dead. Is that not putting their life on the line at work? Just curious what your deffinition may be.

Not every cop is a good cop. Not every cop should be a cop. But there are plenty out there that are great people doing a great job. They are no better then anyone else, but they deserve a thanks at the very least for the bullshit they deal with. People in this country are forgetting that. And forgetting just how good we have it. Ever been pulled over in the southern US? Its not a routine "good morning sir do you have your licence, registration and insurance?" Its "hands where we can see them and don't fucking move" all because I forgot to signal.

Just my opinion.

[TorqueDog]

Originally posted by Toma
It's like tickets and insurance claims.... they lump em together as if it were a causal relationship, when in fact... it's not even close.... and why not from a BUSINESS point of view? After all, it excuses ridiculous gouging and profit. You capitalized the problem; the City is using the police force as a revenue generating business and not a public service as it was intended.

[JustGo]

I think when it comes down to the statistical arguments, it's getting all back asswards.

20% of fatalities are speed related.

From that we can infer that 80% are not speed related.

Furthermore, we can infer that the 80% had some other major contributing factor, being alcohol, inexperience, weather... etc.

What's being said in here is that the 80% was CAUSED by NOT speeding. That is not the case. Saying that speeding is safer is the most asinine conclusion I have ever seen.

The 80% had OTHER factors, the 80% were not killed by going too slow, and most likely would NOT have been 'prevented' by speeding.

I can't believe I am actually arguing this... it's really more funny than anything, that people could actually misinterpret stats that poorly. I just hope these people are playing devil's advocate... but if they are serious... God help us all.

[snoop101]

Originally posted by JustGo
I think when it comes down to the statistical arguments, it's getting all back asswards.

20% of fatalities are speed related.

From that we can infer that 80% are not speed related.

Furthermore, we can infer that the 80% had some other major contributing factor, being alcohol, inexperience, weather... etc.

What's being said in here is that the 80% was CAUSED by NOT speeding. That is not the case. Saying that speeding is safer is the most asinine conclusion I have ever seen.

The 80% had OTHER factors, the 80% were not killed by going too slow, and most likely would NOT have been 'prevented' by speeding.

I can't believe I am actually arguing this... it's really more funny than anything, that people could actually misinterpret stats that poorly. I just hope these people are playing devil's advocate... but if they are serious... God help us all.

I think what people are trying to say is that the cps spends so much time trying to get speeders off the road and not looking at the other 80% of causes. So what most people see of this is that the cps does this because its a huge money maker. Which it is.

The biggest problem is, is that pulling over the average person on a 4 lane highway going 8-10 over is not helping in any way, yet people fly through school zones and construction sites. Like i said I been here 5 years and havent been through a single road block. In BC i used to go through atleast 2-4 a week on average.

[Traffic_Cop]

Originally posted by Toma
No, actually, I am not.... while at the U, I reviewed some government of Alberta and Canada statistics and they were often multi classified.... probably BECAUSE, more often than not no true reason for the accident can be found. All factors MAY have contributed... whether the accident would have been avoided at a lower speed, with no alcohol etc is very often pure conjecture.

Best example I can give is.... the GF insists she wants slurpee at midnight.... you are tired of her bitching, dont really want to go, but you do, and get in an accident. According the the government, and some insruance companies, your girlfriend being a bitch would have been classified as a contributing factor to the accident.... too much conjecture and guess work.

In fact, recent studies show that being a little tired is much more detrimental to reflexes and driving skill than a blood alcohol level of 0.05 to .08! But you don't hear the IDIOTS at MADD canada insisting on suspensions for being tired..

Also, it is very often NOT the police that make these determinations. It is the insurance companies, investigators, lawyers/courts etc....

And if you SERIOUSLY believe the rest... then you subscribe to the philosophy that people need babysitting and society would crumble to chaos if we had fewer rules, and more freedoms..... and of course, I absolutely disagree as a core fundamental belief... hence why we will always be on opposite sides of this fence.





Yes you are wrong.....so very,very wrong.....but im just a revenue generator right?

[Toma]

It has also been WELL documented that the exceeding the 'speed limit' is largely irrelevant in trying to correlate SPEED with Accidents.

What has been proven time and time again... by REAL research is that driving above OR below the average speed of the traffic flow is what increases your risk of accident.

Ie, driving at the AVERAGE speed of traffic flow minimizes accident risk, irrespective of what that speed is.

It has ALSO BEEN PROVEN that driving 10 slower then the average is MORE DANGEROUS then driving 10 above the average.

Read that again.

I think this was know originally as the "soloman Curve" after the original researcher, but has been backed up time and again.

Also, much research into speeding has been done, and "speeding" is often not a significant factor. It is almost solely going too fast for the conditions that is the problem.

[CUG]

Slow drivers cause accidents where there is consistent traffic flow. The ones who won't merge, the ones who are doing 60 on deerfoot because they cant understand traffic signage, yet you're at fault if you clip them? Tasty little program.

I'll never buy speeds relation to accidents unless it's ridiculous.

The common 10-20 over on highways is not dangerous in normal conditions.

[JustGo]

Originally posted by snoop101


I think what people are trying to say is that the cps spends so much time trying to get speeders off the road and not looking at the other 80% of causes. So what most people see of this is that the cps does this because its a huge money maker. Which it is.

The biggest problem is, is that pulling over the average person on a 4 lane highway going 8-10 over is not helping in any way, yet people fly through school zones and construction sites. Like i said I been here 5 years and havent been through a single road block. In BC i used to go through atleast 2-4 a week on average.
If anyone on here can prove they have been pulled over on a 4 lane highway in Calgary for doing 8-10 over, and ONLY 8-10 over... I'll believe that. But I call BS. If it HAS happened, it hasn't happened very often.

[JustGo]

Originally posted by CUG
Slow drivers cause accidents where there is consistent traffic flow. The ones who won't merge, the ones who are doing 60 on deerfoot because they cant understand traffic signage, yet you're at fault if you clip them? Tasty little program.

I'll never buy speeds relation to accidents unless it's ridiculous.

The common 10-20 over on highways is not dangerous in normal conditions.
Speed is almost always a factor in winter collisions... and when do most collisions happen? Winter.

Too fast for road conditions... 90% of the cars drive too fast in winter, if they REALLY need to stop, most cars wouldn't be able to.

How can you doubt speed related? It's just an obvious fact. Doesn't have to be 180km/h to be speed related.

[FraserB]

Why is it that there are like zero Checkstops in calgary? I drove along Macleod a lot during Stampede and never saw them set up, the last time I saw it was Christmas several years ago.

Is it because the officers who would be working the checkstop are more effective patrolling in their own units rather than all hanging out in one spot or because they are easy to dodge if there is any advance warning?

[DayGlow]

Calgary is one of the few places that runs Checkstop year around every week. Problem is that the city is vast and they can only setup in a couple spots a night. Traffic also does mobile patrols as well.

[B4tMan]

besides being head of the statistics class, where you also the president of the drama club ?


Originally posted by JustGo
[...]people actually misinterpret stats that poorly.

I just hope these people are playing devil's advocate... but if they are serious... God help us all.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[TorqueDog]

Originally posted by JustGo
I can't believe I am actually arguing this... it's really more funny than anything, that people could actually misinterpret stats that poorly. I just hope these people are playing devil's advocate... but if they are serious... God help us all.I guess the part where I mentioned I was being facetious with the 'statistics' thing escaped you.

fa⋅ce⋅tious - /fəˈsiʃəs/ - [fuh-see-shuhs]
–adjective
1. not meant to be taken seriously or literally: a facetious remark.
2. amusing; humorous.
3. lacking serious intent

[snoop101]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


If I had my little way they would have tougher standards to get your licence including stringent logic tests; accident avoidance, high speed cone and simulated hazardous weather courses. The safest people on the road are the ones that understand the limits of thier cars and exersize good judgement IMO. I am pretty sure that 20% of people would fail... but accidents we be reduced by like 80%. Ahhhh, Sugarphreak-opia... one day.

I know when I went to Germany when I was younger our friend was getting her drivers license. She was 18 and the course was around $2000 and it was pretty much going to school for a while to learn everything. They had to learn everything right down to changing a tire or doing a oil change.

Im not to sure how it is now though. But seriously if I asked my fiance to change a tire she would probably not be able to do it.

Also in europe if your driving slow in the fast lane you get a ticket right away no questions asked. I wish deerfoot was like that. I find a lot of people start to be dumb on the deerfoot weaving in and out of cars because you get a couple of bad driving jerks driving slow in the fast lane.

anyways were kinda getting off subject, but I guess its all relevant

[Redlyne_mr2]

Originally posted by JustGo

Speed is almost always a factor in winter collisions... and when do most collisions happen? Winter.

Too fast for road conditions... 90% of the cars drive too fast in winter, if they REALLY need to stop, most cars wouldn't be able to.

How can you doubt speed related? It's just an obvious fact. Doesn't have to be 180km/h to be speed related.
Thats not speed related it's skill related IMO. I've said this before and I'll mention it again. I'm trying to think back to the last few speed traps I've seen and it's always in places where the speedlimit is lower than what it should be and where there really is no danger to go over the speedlimit at all.

[Canmorite]

Originally posted by snoop101


I know when I went to Germany when I was younger our friend was getting her drivers license. She was 18 and the course was around $2000 and it was pretty much going to school for a while to learn everything. They had to learn everything right down to changing a tire or doing a oil change.

Im not to sure how it is now though. But seriously if I asked my fiance to change a tire she would probably not be able to do it.

Also in europe if your driving slow in the fast lane you get a ticket right away no questions asked. I wish deerfoot was like that. I find a lot of people start to be dumb on the deerfoot weaving in and out of cars because you get a couple of bad driving jerks driving slow in the fast lane.

anyways were kinda getting off subject, but I guess its all relevant

I did a mock drivers test in Germany in 2004 (friend is an instructor) and they have a huge private course for training. Skidpads, simulated ice and hydroplaning surface, slalom tests, ABS braking tests, full acceleration and hard braking, eveything. Canada's tests are a JOKE compared to theirs.

[FlySi]

so im wondering, did JUSTGO, DAYGLOW, AND PHILZ make their quotas this month?

[DayGlow]

all honesty, I don't have a quota.

As my sargent explained to me a long, long time ago:

summons are a tracked stat, just like warrants, criminal charges, calls for service, etc. If one is up, then he expects others to be down. What I have to be is accountable for my time. If I'm not answering calls, arresting people on warrants and fresh criminal charges, etc, then he would expect my summons output to be up. Or the question is what exactly am I doing for 12 hours?

[phil98z24]

Originally posted by FlySi
so im wondering, did JUSTGO, DAYGLOW, AND PHILZ make their quotas this month?

Why does it matter to you? My sergeant doesn't care, because I do lots of criminal charges and warrants every month, and plus I write tickets that should be written - not just because someone expects them of me. He is fine with that... so im wondering, are YOU?

[JustGo]

Originally posted by B4tMan
besides being head of the statistics class, where you also the president of the drama club ?


TO BE.... OR NOT TO BE.....



... nevermind, I'm done.

[JustGo]

Originally posted by TorqueDog
I guess the part where I mentioned I was being facetious with the 'statistics' thing escaped you.

fa⋅ce⋅tious - /fəˈsiʃəs/ - [fuh-see-shuhs]
–adjective
1. not meant to be taken seriously or literally: a facetious remark.
2. amusing; humorous.
3. lacking serious intent
Yes, yes I did miss it.

And I don't need any definitions, thanks.

[JustGo]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2

Thats not speed related it's skill related IMO. I've said this before and I'll mention it again. I'm trying to think back to the last few speed traps I've seen and it's always in places where the speedlimit is lower than what it should be and where there really is no danger to go over the speedlimit at all.
Here is why it is speed related and not skill related.

Speeding in poor conditions is a result of poor skills, perhaps inexperience.

The physical collision is due to speed. It's simple physics. Going too fast creates too much momentum, and there is not enough friction to stop the vehicle, therefore there is a crash.

In a roundabout way, you're right. But in a more direct, concise way, speeding is the factor, not skill.


Once again, simple equations.

Lack of skill = Speeding = Collision

You can't skip the middle man here.

[JustGo]

Originally posted by FlySi
so im wondering, did JUSTGO, DAYGLOW, AND PHILZ make their quotas this month?
I have specific direction from the top man at my district, that as long as I'm taking care of business, putting bad guys away and doing my job every day, he doesn't care how many tickets I write.

And I haven't been in trouble once.

If you want to track stats for me though, I'm at 5 this month... now I'm on holidays for the rest of the month. I guess I won't meet the 'quota' huh?

I suppose I'll be lucky if I have a job to come back to with such poor performance... :D

[Trites]

is there a smilie for beating a dead horse?

[JustGo]

Originally posted by Trites
is there a smilie for beating a dead horse?
No, but I'm trying to find new, fascinating ways to display it through interpretive dance.

[TorqueDog]

Originally posted by JustGo
Yes, yes I did miss it.

And I don't need any definitions, thanks. You got one anyway - if you know someone who could use it, feel free to pass it on.

I don't have a problem with you guys, or the work you do; honestly, you'll get nothing but respect from me, and I'm most certainly not putting the blame for this on the officers. It'd be like blaming the war in Iraq on the soldiers that were sent there.

It's when politicians force our police service to act as a source of revenue that I have an issue with it. At that point, you're no longer an impartial observer enforcing the law.

[FraserB]

Im waiting for the day that someone here gets a ticket from Phil, Dayglow or Justgo and comes on here to bitch about it.

I think a Beyond sticker on the rear window would solve this problem,:D

[JustGo]

Originally posted by FraserB
Im waiting for the day that someone here gets a ticket from Phil, Dayglow or Justgo and comes on here to bitch about it.

I think a Beyond sticker on the rear window would solve this problem,:D
You missed the day... hahahaha