Official Short-term Investments Thread

[SilverRex]

Originally posted by tylere


Is 991 the next resistance for gold?

technically if 971 doesnt hold the next major resistance is at 991, I think its best not to play gold at the moment until we see what happens

well taking out 971 indeed turned bearish into neutral actually. the blowoff critical level should be above 991, and with 977 being a potential trend line top.

so now it is better to wait for a break out above 991 or a break down below 944, anything in between now is a tug of war if gold is to break out now or next year

[Dinan]

how much did the USD drop??? the charts are delayed 30 min,

well the euro hasn't moved up nor the CND, so it couldn't have that much, maybe there is some kinda news or something??

[SilverRex]

hmm gold is holding at 975. redrew my trend line it appears this is the trend line holding from 1006, 991 and 975.

gold must clear 975 to reach 991,

could very well be a swing point high, going to try a short gold at 975 with stop 977.50

see what happens

[Super_Geo]

For you HGD/HGU guys out there, here's some TA I read on gold yesterday:


Sept. 1 (Bloomberg) -- Gold may advance to a record $1,325 an ounce if it first breaks out of a symmetrical, triangular pattern, a move that may occur in the next one or two weeks, Standard Bank Group Ltd. said, citing trading patterns.

A so-called topside breakout would be indicated by a close at more than $980.85 an ounce, Darran Grabham, the bank’s technical analyst, wrote in a note yesterday. That would signal a short-term bull trend to at least $1,100 an ounce, he said. Gold traded today at $952.80.

In addition to the triangular pattern, gold rising to more than this year’s peak of $1,006.29 would “confirm the completion of a continuation head-and-shoulders pattern -- the eventual target is $1,325,” Grabham wrote. The precious metal’s record stands at $1,032.70, touched on March 17, 2008.

A head-and-shoulders pattern is formed when a commodity makes three consecutive peaks, with the middle being the highest. It forms during a series of increases over time, according to technical analysts, who say that past moves of an asset may be used to predict future trends.

Symmetrical triangle patterns are unpredictable, and gold may tumble if it declines to less than the support trendline at $935 an ounce, Grabham wrote. “The ensuing sell-off is likely to encounter support around the $906.50 level, before a break lower yields a move to a secondary objective of $890,” he added.

“The minimum target of the triangle is highlighted at $850, with potential for the bear trend to test the corrective low recorded in January,” he wrote. Gold traded as low as $802.59 that month.

[Vanish3d]

NG got me a lil happy for nothing...

[Dinan]

Originally posted by Vanish3d
NG got me a lil happy for nothing...

tell me about it!!!

you got shares?

how is it that november contract is up 5 cents :eek: :banghead:

[Meback]

I m getting killed on both sides. Gwad damn.

[guessboi]

stopped out HGD at 5.7. fcuk gold. sold too early HGU and got into HGD. :banghead:

[Meback]

okay guys, I really need some advice. What do you folks think i should do.. i bought HNU @ 900 shares this morning and is losing $144.00 already. To makes matters worst I also have HOU held on to it yesterday mroning and fuked myself good.. have 300 shares bought at 8.45...

I am currently down ~250.00. SHould i sit on it and wait until things turn around, or bail and take the hit?


300 bucks now! FUK!

[Z_Fan]

I got stopped out of HGD at 5.85 lost $350.00 in a matter of minutes really. :poosie:

[Vanish3d]

Originally posted by Dinan


tell me about it!!!

you got shares?

how is it that november contract is up 5 cents :eek: :banghead:

ya i got shares at 2.43. before close the other day I put an order at the days bottom, and damn thing got filled

[Dinan]

Originally posted by Vanish3d


ya i got shares at 2.43. before close the other day I put an order at the days bottom, and damn thing got filled

thats nothing man, i got in the 5's:whipped: :banghead:

[guessboi]

^ Dinan, you been pretty bad luck lately. Did you get into HGD this morning like me and Z_Fan?

[Dinan]

Originally posted by guessboi
^ Dinan, you been pretty bad luck lately. Did you get into HGD this morning like me and Z_Fan?


hahahahaha. yeah just before it tanked... hahaha, but got out...

[guessboi]

fcuk HNU. :banghead: well I am all out of HNU. I might get on the boat on HND. :rofl:

[Dinan]

Originally posted by guessboi
fcuk HNU. :banghead: well I am all out of HNU. I might get on the boat on HND. :rofl:

i'm really considering that myself, to take every penny out of everything and buy HND and hope to make my money back, but damn NG is so damn low, it doesn't make sense .... if i would do that, i would rather change my account to be able to short stocks and try and short HNU instead,

[Dinan]

SR, did you short GOLD, i'm thinking about buying HGD again, seems to have settled down .....

[Vanish3d]

Originally posted by Dinan


thats nothing man, i got in the 5's:whipped: :banghead:

had it in the 6's and took the hit and got rid of them at the 4'sh, ud think i'd learn too but nope. I'm gonna call RBC and tell them to put a restriction so i cant buy HNU ever

[Dinan]

Originally posted by Vanish3d


had it in the 6's and took the hit and got rid of them at the 4'sh, ud think i'd learn too but nope. I'm gonna call RBC and tell them to put a restriction so i cant buy HNU ever

hahahahahahahaha......:facepalm: i should too... damn....

[997TT]

lots of losing today .... capital_loss_4life is my next tattoo.

I'm up 5% on OSK but fricking HGU is up 15%. Serves me right for picking 1 stock vs the basket. works sometimes ... and other times especially when i buy ... nope.

TCK after slipping under $25 is now trying to break $26. c'mon you pos ... you can do it. lol

silver getting crushed. wow.

[Dinan]

^^^ i don't see how u losing guy, could have made more if u bought HGU, but still your up guy,

are you still holding HZD??

[SilverRex]

^ gold and silver definately have momentum, tried to short at 975 with stop but taken out. going to leave it alone but if gold crosses 991, may be worth buying for a potential break out

[997TT]

Originally posted by Dinan
^^^ i don't see how u losing guy, could have made more if u bought HGU, but still your up guy,

are you still holding HZD??

I'm barely up on the day.

OSK up nice
stopped out of HOU for a 0.10 loss.
PDN holding my cost
tCK up a bit.

HZD got rid of back in the $18's. Made about $5K total on 4 in/outs. Never had the urge to get back in despite all charts/recommendations saying to short it. Even fk ups like me get one decision right out of 100. :poosie:

[Dinan]

some older italian guy keeps on calling BNN about OSK lol,,, like every time :D lol

[997TT]

^ lol

supposedly its a takeover target. Seen analysts saying $9 in next 12 months is very likely.

problem with that pos stock is it'll hit $7.3-$7.40 and then sell back off to $7.

So i try and play that range ... only problem is "IF" it does take off you'll have to rebuy higher or just watch it and think "what if"

A theme i am all too familiar with. ...

[Dinan]

damn, maybe should just leave some shares into that...

[Bisklimpkit]

Originally posted by SilverRex
^ gold and silver definately have momentum, tried to short at 975 with stop but taken out. going to leave it alone but if gold crosses 991, may be worth buying for a potential break out

Do you mean buying HGU at that point? I'm assuming that's what you mean by 'break out'.

[civic_rida]

wow hnu is under 2 dollars.

[997TT]

golds on pace to get test 2009 highs and test $1000+ according to charts

cm'on OSK.

[e36bmw///]

nm

[Dinan]

Originally posted by e36bmw///
hey SR, should i wait to convert my US dollars to canadian? or do it now at 1.10

will uS dollar be stronger/

where have you been, not trading anymore ?

[eljefe]

Originally posted by civic_rida
wow hnu is under 2 dollars.

Yes and the spread(contango) between October and November is growing larger and larger- obscenely larger. 2.76 - 3.92

[guessboi]

^ I am in HND now. fcuk HNU.:guns:

[Dinan]

damn HND just making 52 week highs.... :eek:

[Vanish3d]

i feel like im gona puke

[SilverRex]

Originally posted by e36bmw///
hey SR, should i wait to convert my US dollars to canadian? or do it now at 1.10

will uS dollar be stronger/

yes my view is stronger dollar in coming months.

[SilverRex]

Originally posted by Dinan


where have you been, not trading anymore ?

dude I have a full time job, cant sit all day in front of the screen, though some days I do.

[Vanish3d]

Originally posted by SilverRex


dude I have a full time job, cant sit all day in front of the screen, though some days I do.

hahaha "i have a full time job". I think we all seem to think you work for beyond-investments, but no one is willing to pay you lol

you know, u can ask $2/hour /person in this thread and quit your other job

[Dinan]

Originally posted by SilverRex


dude I have a full time job, cant sit all day in front of the screen, though some days I do.

sorry but that wasn't directed to you....


your charts and info in the morning are very helpful...

[arcane]

How much more do you guys think HNU will fall? Think it would keep dropping the next few days?

[Z_Fan]

Wow. Stop losses saved my ass today. A year ago today would have cost me thousands and thousands of dollars since I happened to be largely on the wrong side of things.

But with my stop losses that I set, I'm probably only down about $800 today. If I'd not had stop losses in place, I'd be down about $4k.

WOW! :poosie:

Oh yeah, and I bought some HNU at $1.99.

I think I am retarded. Well, I am definitely stupider than I originally thought for buying that POS stock!

[Dinan]

anyone get back into HGD....

[max_boost]

HNU :thumbsdow

HND :thumbsup: :bigpimp:

Nat gas is just :eek:

What's up with GOLD today?

[Meback]

I got in to HGD 200 shares @5.30, fuking sold that 600 shares of that POS HNU @1.96 (lost of ~$103) to free up money to buy that HGD. FUK HNU!! I don't even know why i m still hanging on to that 300 shares. I guess i'm relying on hope.

[RX_EVOLV]

oh man everyone is jumping on HND, i think thats the time to buy HNU hah, might pick up a few shares tmr to gamble gamble. Just got back from Vegas, still in a gamble mood.

[yoda124]

RE:HNU

no news of people jumping off buildings.My buddy is ready to slit his own throat.(just kidding)Man that POS stock has ruined a lot of lives.

[Dinan]

What scares me about hnu is the contango, I don't believe NG will stay this low for this long, but with the huge contango, over a 1$ now from oct to nov contract, and when it rolls over hnu will be like what? 2$ and will trade the nov contract in the high 3's. I think I'm going to pull some if not all before the roll over


damn look at the HND chart, looks like a money making machine....

http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=HND.TO&p=D&yr=0&mn=3&dy=0&id=p26292249991

[Vanish3d]

Nat gas is at 2.67!!!

thats it, I just put a sell order for all my shares at market value tmr morning. :banghead:

[Dinan]

What was your entry price?

I will wait till tuesday! After the loong weekend! And if shit doesn't turn around I'm selling everythibg too and will take a loss of the centry :( before I start losing my own cash! Shit! I was doing great till I heard about how cheap NG is few months ago! If something is too good to be true it most likly is :(

[Vanish3d]

I got in at 2.43 HNU which is around 3.02 or so NG

its just so hard to sell now when its this low. its bound to bounce...:dunno: even if its just for the day...

[Z_Fan]

Hmmmmm. I thought it bounced this morning when it went up to $2.20 and I was totally going to sell at $2.15 even though I bought in higher than that.

Instead, I let it hit my stop loss like a fool.

And like a bigger fucking tool, I bought it back even lower. But we all know tomorrow it's going to get its ass kicked again, and HNU will likely trade down to the $1.60 range by Noon.

[Dinan]

I was doing a quick math and if oct contract would get to 4$ lol, yeah I know that will be the day, but anyways hnu would still be under 4$ :( what a waste ehhh! Hnu is sucking my moneuy! Have to stop this shit,

Am I right with my math?

I been waiting for a "bounce" foreverrrrrrr! And yet it keeps on dropping 5%+ a day on avrg :(

[skandalouz_08]

I'm in HGD at $6.60, today hurt because I got caught up at work and didn't have any stop losses set today. I'm almost down $1000 this week alone, need to be smarter about my trades...

[Z_Fan]

^ :poosie:

I bought this morning at $6.15. Bought more when it dropped to $5.95. Stopped out on 1500 shares at $5.85. Bought more at $5.65. Bought more at the end of day at $5.35 or so.

So I took an ass whooping today chasing a stock that was fucking falling in the first place!!!!

:nut:

[cidley69]

HOD is kicking ass, at least.

[guessboi]

go HND tomorrow! :rofl: see u all early tomorrow. I am golfing most of the day so I am going to miss some action tomorrow. :facepalm:

[max_boost]

Originally posted by cidley69
HOD is kicking ass, at least.

Not as much as HND!
:devil:

[Dinan]

^^^ you still trading??

Damn, gold is still up, glad I sold hgd, but then again, how much more can the gold stocks go?

[troyl]

BetaPro Management Inc. Announces Unit Split and Consolidation


TORONTO, Sept. 2 /CNW/ - BetaPro Management Inc. ("BetaPro"), manager and trustee of the exchange traded funds (the "ETFs") listed below, has announced today that it intends to split or consolidate units of these ETFs, as indicated below:


-------------------------------------------------------------------------ETF Ticker Split Ratio-------------------------------------------------------------------------Horizons BetaPro NYMEX(R) Natural Gas Bear Plus ETF HND 2:1-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unit Consolidation


-------------------------------------------------------------------------ETF Ticker ConsolidationRatio-------------------------------------------------------------------------Horizons BetaPro NYMEX(R) Natural Gas Bull Plus ETF HNU 1:5-------------------------------------------------------------------------

[SilverRex]

ok so it was a interesting day for gold, but lets look at oil first. we got our 67 target but since this is right up against a up trend channel, price did hold and now trades near 69. while gold, euro and dollar is back at their critical make or break prices, oil is very much looking bearish, will oil too break upwards further? by itself I Can only view it as bearish unless oil retakes above 71.50-72, otherwise expect oil to find resistance starting 69.50 then 70.50. stoch is very much overbought, so really, depending on how the dollar plays out (will explain next) oil will either break down or tries to make a huge come back as well.

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk118/genmaster/oil090309.jpg

looking at the dollar, even after breaking out from a triangle, it refuse to rally further but now testing the same up trend line again. the world is looking at this level as critical support, if broken to the down side, this will fuel breakout on gold and oil back up to the upper chan channel. so a real make or break level. dollar bulls's not out of the woods yet. so place your bet (taking out 77.7 will invalidate the ABC correction and we are headed lower

technically because it is so over sold and we are at a very strong up trend line that is being tested many times. a good swing trade would be to go long with a tight stop. if proven wrong, go the other way, simple!

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk118/genmaster/dollar090309.jpg


finally look at gold, after I said yestertday if gold breaks 965 and expecially above 971, it would turn bearish outlook into neutral. and now that gold is near 987, it is at a make or break level as well. if gold takes out 991, then it will turn into a bullish frenzy imo, while nail in the coffin for bears is above 1006, none the less or is at a major break out point showin below. While EW has been invalidated by breaking abouve 971, however counts can be revised but breaking abouve 991 will make the entire structure questionable for bears so bulls need to kill 991 otherwise gold is still confined within a down trend structure.

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk118/genmaster/gold090309.jpg

im showing gold 1 hour chart here as well, it broke out of a trend channel, very impulse yet it is very over bought and if gold sudden comes down below 975, look for negative divergence to take hold and put a stop to gold's run. Yes gold can shoot to the moon if it wants to but if you are looking at pure technical analysis, it is way over bought and is due for a pull back, so place your bets acordingly

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk118/genmaster/goldtoday-3.jpg

[SilverRex]

euro also came close but the double trend line held (retesting the previous broken one) I now expect euro to drop further for a wave 5 completion hopefully this will drag gold and oil down


http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk118/genmaster/euro090309-1.jpg

however DOW is near a critical neck line and since it is very over sold, I expect if it ever reaches 9221 it will rally

I hear alot of fund managers say no lower than 9221 as well. I wont be surprise this is the make or break level for the dow and tomorrow's big payroll could very well set the tone

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk118/genmaster/dow090309.jpg

[tylere]

If it does rally past 9221 what do you think that will do to oil?

[Dinan]

damn, HGD could be the next HNU ...... if gold breaks through

[Meback]

^ don't say that I m holding both HGD and HNU!

[SilverRex]

ok NG I have revised my count and now the using the projected range from the previous false was not correct.

I should have stuck to my first analysis way back when I Called that the current drop would be longer than the previous drop since the previous drop came out of a triangle which is typical wave 4 pattern. so this final leg I expect a full 5 wave structure and now that the drop has been longer than the previous one which makes a sub wave 3 of 5.

I expect a mini rally to emerge which should be in the form of a triangle as well then one final thrust to a wave V bottom or double bottom, but typically wave 5 may equal the length of wave 1 so the sub wave 5 would stretch another 27% drop where ever it may peak of the sub wave 4

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk118/genmaster/NG090309-1.jpg

[SilverRex]

^ but caution because of the huge contango coming next month, I dont think we can sustain much of the rally

meaning even if NG was to begin rising for dead cat bounce, if the roll over kicks in, the rally may be short lived because of the higher next month contract lifting prices technically but not benefiting NG bulls. especially if your holding etfs

if NG does rise, I would kick the phuck out, and actually go short as soon as NG rolls over to nov which is like at 3.9 right now that will offer plenty of room to go short from 3.9 to 2.6 all over again.

not to mention the EW target on a larger yearly degree is at 2 bucks

[Neil4Speed]

I am thinking of getting into HNU at around 1.82 or so, thoughts?

[Z_Fan]

Wow did HGU ever drop fast for a few seconds there. Crazy.

I had just bought it at $13.40, came back and it was $12.97 in like less than 5 minutes. I set a stop at $13.32 which sold so I rebought. LOL.

[Dinan]

Originally posted by SilverRex
^ but caution because of the huge contango coming next month, I dont think we can sustain much of the rally

meaning even if NG was to begin rising for dead cat bounce, if the roll over kicks in, the rally may be short lived because of the higher next month contract lifting prices technically but not benefiting NG bulls. especially if your holding etfs

if NG does rise, I would kick the phuck out, and actually go short as soon as NG rolls over to nov which is like at 3.9 right now that will offer plenty of room to go short from 3.9 to 2.6 all over again.

not to mention the EW target on a larger yearly degree is at 2 bucks


but even when HND/HOU rolls over to nov contract, wouldn't the front month still count if it does hit 2.50 or 2$ like a lot of ppl are expecting... why would nov contact go down to 2-2.5 too ??

i want to get into HND too, after the slipt, and the roll over too...it would be a biatch if it start to rally after....

why is november up 3 cents,,,


:eek:

[SilverRex]

NG is different than HOU when it comes to how the betra pro rolls over

Days 1-4
100% NG1, 0% NG2
Day 5
87.5% NG1, 12.5% NG2
Day 6
75.0% NG1, 25.0% NG2
Day 7
62.5% NG1, 37.5% NG2
Day 8
50.0% NG1, 50.0% NG2
Day 9
37.5% NG1, 62.5% NG2
Day 10
25.0% NG1, 75.0% NG2
Day 11
12.5% NG1, 87.5% NG2
Day 12
0% NG1, 100% NG2
Day 13 through 1st Nearby Contract Expiration
0% NG1, 100% NG2
Day 1 of new 1st Nearby Contract through to the end of the Month
100% NG1, 0% NG2
2

[eljefe]

And NG just shit the bed, again...... 2.55 NG - 1.72 HNU

[Dinan]

sorry i meant HNU, not HOU,,,



damn NG, lets see what happens with 2.50, that should be a magic number we are looking for... well here it is

[Dinan]

whyyyy didn't i buy HND, DAMN.... if i put all my cash there i would have made few g's easy....

[SilverRex]

reminds me of oil when it had a 7 dollar contango it was selling off fast in the front month contract but next month was stable.

however when it was close to expiry, it also rally pretty hard

not sure if this is because the contango is so big they had to meet somewhere in the middle

right now its 2.57 and next month is 3.8 so maybe meet at 3 dollars?

[Dinan]

fuckkk, well we got a whole month to rally i guess, but even if oct gets to 3$ i don't think nov will drop to near 3$ nor stay at 3.80 where it's at now,


i like honestly don't have a clue on what to do here....

you still in SR, ?? buying more? or going jump into HND

[eljefe]

Originally posted by SilverRex
reminds me of oil when it had a 7 dollar contango it was selling off fast in the front month contract but next month was stable.

however when it was close to expiry, it also rally pretty hard

not sure if this is because the contango is so big they had to meet somewhere in the middle

right now its 2.57 and next month is 3.8 so maybe meet at 3 dollars?

Only problem is the two months are still diverging daily

[KRZY403]

shit, I just had to put a sell order at 25.60 this morning.. really did not expect hnd to jump more than $2

[SilverRex]

I think whats going to happen is HND will continue to climb over the next few months

while I want to expect a rally but the rally may come in the form of a technical reflection of next month's price on current month charting.

so the chart will show a drop from 3.7 to 2.5, then back to 3.6 to 2.3 then back to 3.2 to 2.0

all the while HNU barely moves but HND will roll from 20 to 40 and up

[Dinan]

so SR, are you moving onto HND

[guessboi]

I am extremely happy taking in a position yesterday and 1 more early today for HND. fcuk HNU

[Neil4Speed]

Originally posted by guessboi
fcuk HNU

I have just started playing around with HNU to get a few cents here and there and its way way to frighting for me. I am done with that shit!

[Dinan]

Originally posted by guessboi
I am extremely happy taking in a position yesterday and 1 more early today for HND. fcuk HNU

don't sell man,

[guessboi]

^ not selling. :D are u in?

[Nova316]

I sold off HNU
Cant keep averaging down, its a losing uphill battle
Got into HND @ 24.10
I have quite a bit of ground to cover my 4k losses with

[cosmok]

Whoo lets go gold! Glad I flipped HNU yesterday, natural gas is fooked

[Dinan]

Originally posted by Nova316
I sold off HNU
Cant keep averaging down, its a losing uphill battle
Got into HND @ 24.10
I have quite a bit of ground to cover my 4k losses with

damn u up like 3$ hope u bought lots..... i'm down loots more then you!

[SilverRex]

im going to wait until the roll over completes into next month then short NG as you get a huge contanto gap to fill

[Nova316]

I bought 500
I hope it bounces for your sake then I can buy more HND haha
I need it to clear then 33$ to break even between HND/HNU

Thank god for my AIG from $12 -> $44 haha or else I'd be done with trading for a while

[Dinan]

Originally posted by Nova316
I bought 500
I hope it bounces for your sake then I can buy more HND haha
I need it to clear then 33$ to break even between HND/HNU

Thank god for my AIG from $12 -> $44 haha or else I'd be done with trading for a while

wow, nice trade with aig,, tell me you bought more then 500 with aig :D


well on the 15th HND/HNU is doing a split so we can get in cheaper into HND :D i know it's the same thing but still :D

[Dinan]

Originally posted by SilverRex
im going to wait until the roll over completes into next month then short NG as you get a huge contanto gap to fill

wouldn't it be better to get in before??? like you said with HOD ??

are you getting out of HNU before the split/roll over?

[Dinan]

damn if silver gets above 16.23 then 17.90 is next stop, and it looks like it will happen... and maybe 1k for gold for tomorrow :dunno:

[SilverRex]

^ it may be 1k gold right now

[SilverRex]

gold after breaking above 991, is extremely bullish right now

[Dinan]

almost, and silver is just about to break above 16.23 too... wow

[max_boost]

Go HND! :eek:

[Vanish3d]

sold all my shares of POS HNU

debating on gettin into HND, i think thats like a 100% sure thing.... prolly not gona get as much profit as I would've if i got in earlier, but still

[Super_Geo]

What do you guys think about HGU?

Gold crosses over 991 and has been holding steady around 993, HGU has been holding steady for the past half hour as well...

[DRKM]

Has anyone tried shorting and longing the same stock at the same time?

I would not mind doing it with HNU...

[SilverRex]

good to buy hnd starting on or near the 14th of sept

[Dinan]

SR, are you still holding your HNU ??

sorry i know i asked you soo many times lol, but i'm losing lots of $$$ here... every penny higher is less of a lost for me...

anyways when you planning to pull out of HNU?? i'm thinking tuesday :dunno: