Official Short-term Investments Thread

[max_boost]

Originally posted by Aleks
I've got a big cheque here in USD from selling a bunch of stocks a few weeks ago. Wonder if I should convert to CAD today or wait and see what happens later this week :dunno: Go import a car instead ;)

[Canmorite]

I accidently the whole market.

[Aleks]

Originally posted by max_boost
Go import a car instead ;)

I would love to buy an EVO X MR down there but I am getting married in Vegas in less than 2 weeks and so it's either buy an EVO or pay for the wedding :banghead:

[BigMass]

Originally posted by Aleks


I would love to buy an EVO X MR down there but I am getting married in Vegas in less than 2 weeks and so it's either buy an EVO or pay for the wedding :banghead:

here's some advise. Dont buy an Evo, get married at the "chapel 'o love" and save your cash.

[djayz]

Originally posted by Canmorite
I accidently the whole market.

Fix IT! :rofl:

I say get the EVO...you can be married without the legalities :poosie:

[SilverRex]

I just sold half my AUY/YRI holdings and bought ABX and KGC to diversify my gold mining stock profolio. After all, I believe earning results will look better on barrick as long as gold remains above 800.00 also picking up Kinross because you just never know which company gets take over. So this gives me a good coverage to spread out my risk/reward


another comforting comments

"Gold and silver stocks continue to get battered with valuations becoming incredibly attractive. They are down with the general markets but in the near future I fully expect a vicious reversal in the precious metals stock sector. Gold and silver investments will attract the ever growing flight of capital out of general markets and investments. Short-term downside risks still do remain despite some incredible mid to long term prospects for mining stocks. "

[broken_legs]

just bought 25 oct 30 contracts on SU-N for 1.75...

5 minutes later the ask is over 2 bucks and su looks like its goingt o moe thorugh 28 dollars

I think i'll pull the trigger at 2.25 ish... depends on how big the dow rallies back here


EDIT:

out at 1.95 looks like shes slipping into the abyss again!

Edit x 2:

Crap I think the dow is going back over 10,000 and i just missed all that upside.

[BigMass]

Originally posted by broken_legs
just bought 25 oct 30 contracts on SU-N for 1.75...

5 minutes later the ask is over 2 bucks and su looks like its goingt o moe thorugh 28 dollars

I think i'll pull the trigger at 2.25 ish... depends on how big the dow rallies back here


EDIT:

out at 1.95 looks like shes slipping into the abyss again!

Edit x 2:

Crap I think the dow is going back over 10,000 and i just missed all that upside.

PPT working full force to keep the markets from destruction. It won't last. Just another opportunity to bail out while you have anything left.

[Big Daddy G]

What the eff is PPT anyways? I keep seeing that acronym floating around

[BigMass]

Originally posted by Big Daddy G
What the eff is PPT anyways? I keep seeing that acronym floating around

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plunge_Protection_Team

that V bottom at the last hour was a perfect example of the PPT working overtime. The market was actually starting to accelerate it's decline before they had to step in.

[e36bmw///]

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[Canmorite]

Not every upside move is due to the PPT. Short covering, buying, and a mix of both attributed to most of that gain.

[DJ_NAV]

got SU-N at 28$ USD..... my first trade ever with real money.... im scarreeedddd...

[e36bmw///]

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[e36bmw///]

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[liquid1010]

Read online about calls, but I would stay away from Options unless you have a decent understanding of Black & Scholes, Open Interest, and how to open and close call & put options - otherwise there's a good chance you'll get into a mess.....

[ChappedLips]

Options are the right to buy a stock at a certain price( the strike price) and for these contracts there is also an expiry date. The expiry date is the 3rd friday of the month the options expire in.

I trade options and I always sell before the expiry date, but you can only buy the stock at the strike price, if the stock is above it when the options expire.

So if you have OCT 30$ call options in XYZ you have the right to buy the stock for 30$ a share after the 3rd friday of October only if the stock price is above 30.00, and you keep the rest as profit.

So if the price of the stock was at 35$ when the options expired you would be able to buy the amount of shares you control at 30$ and sell them at 35$ in the open market.

But say if the stock closed at 29.95$ on the expiration date you would lose all your money.

Each options contract controls 100 shares, lots of people just use options to hedge their bets, but they are very leveraged and can make you filthy rich if you know what you are doing.

You can also buy puts which is basically the opposite which gives you the right to sell stock at a certain price.

[djayz]

When you buy options do you pay the actual price of the call or put price? Like for the $30 call option do you pay $30 a piece or is it go by some other amount?

[e36bmw///]

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[ChappedLips]

Originally posted by djayz
When you buy options do you pay the actual price of the call or put price? Like for the $30 call option do you pay $30 a piece or is it go by some other amount?


No, you just pay a premium, for instance DELL is at 14.92 or so right now and the OCT 15$ calls are trading for 0.88$. So one contract will cost 0.88$ x 100 shares = 88$ a contract plus broker fees. Time value will eat away at the value of your options if you are out of the money as the expiration date is closer.

There are many variable factors that go into the price of options, you can look it up for a more detailed description if you want.

[ChappedLips]

Originally posted by e36bmw///
oh so you have to actually buy the stock in order to make money

so if you buy lets say 5 options at a strike price of $30, that = to 500 shares?
and if by the end the share is worth $35. Do you need to buy 500 shares of XYZ at $30? so that you can sell it for $35?


what if you cant buy 500?

thakks


No, you just simply sell you contracts before the expiration date. I have never actually gone through and bought the shares. 5 option contracts is equal to 500 shares. So you will make money as if you controlled 500 shares without buying 15 000$ of the stock, which is what you would have to buy to make the same profit. 500 x 30$ = 15 000$

[e36bmw///]

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[e36bmw///]

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[ChappedLips]

Originally posted by e36bmw///
so..
if you get a contact of 100 shares for $88 +fees and the stock hits 16

what happens


You make money, lol. It is really quite hard to say exactly how much the options will go up to but it should be around 1.20-1.70. After that happens you simply sell for a profit, same as stock. Option prices are very volatile and they will be high during an uptick or low for a downtick, especially in this market you have to be careful. If a stock is rallying the option prices may increase rapidly and then drop suddenly once the stock reverses a little.

[e36bmw///]

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[ChappedLips]

You're looking at a return of 50% or so with the options rather than 6% with just stock that is an awesome return.

Your buddy must have been talking about Puts then, which is the right to sell at a certain price and the strike price for that must have been 80$, with puts you make money as the stock goes down.

You wouldn't only buy 1 contract either, so if you bought 10 contracts at .88$ .88 x 100 x 10 = 880$ invested you would make 1.40$ x 100 x 10 = 1400$ which is 520$ profit.

[broken_legs]

Leverage.

Its all about leverage.


Today I saw Suncor turned around when it bounced off the low at 26 dollars and the dow was up.

I wanted to be a part of it so I bought some calls for the upside.

Suncor the stock only moved from around 27 dollars when my slow as brokerage screen finally loaded on the rigernet, to around 27.90 when I sold. So the stock only moved 90 cents or around 4-5% while I was in it.

Meanwhile the Oct 30 Call option went from 1.75-2.15 ~~ 25%

But due to the low volume and the slow assness of my trading platform when im at the rig I had to fire into the market when I saw the dow dropped 100 points in 5 minutes and only got 1.95 so roughly 10% profit for about 30 minutes of work. Now If I had held onto them for another 20 minutes until the end of the day I could have sold them at 2.25 for a nice 30% profit.

Meanwhile the stock only moved about 7%


The Oct calls moved more than the Nov Calls did. The Oct calls are more volatile because they are closer to the expiration date (3rd friday of every month)



Testing a hunch i bought some 25 oct puts at 1.12 right at the close. I could be totally wrong and the market might take off tomorrow, but I think there's going to be some more weakness. Worst case I will hold onto them until they expire on the 17th and lose all my money. Next stop DOW 7700! Lots of shite earnings going to be coming out soon!


EDIT:
Futures are down 50 points already.... Keep you powder dry boys!

[djayz]

Makes sense and yes leverage is always the key. I'm awaiting the opening of all my accounts at etrade, should be fun to start flinging money around like monkey poo :rofl:

[broken_legs]

OK

I'm getting tired of stressing out on my manual options trades from the rig here.

I need trailing stops and all that other crap they have on US online trading platforms.

Do any of you guys using those other platforms have these tools? I honestly think a trailing stop would keep me out of a lot of trouble, it would keep me honest and stop me from making emotional decisions.

[BigMass]

Originally posted by broken_legs


EDIT:
Futures are down 50 points already.... Keep you powder dry boys!

In times like these I'm glad i own that other precious metal as well... Lead.

[Canmorite]

Originally posted by broken_legs
OK

I'm getting tired of stressing out on my manual options trades from the rig here.

I need trailing stops and all that other crap they have on US online trading platforms.

Do any of you guys using those other platforms have these tools? I honestly think a trailing stop would keep me out of a lot of trouble, it would keep me honest and stop me from making emotional decisions.

Thinkorswim might.

[Pacman]

Originally posted by Canmorite


Thinkorswim might.

I use ThinkorSwim, and yes, you can do this.

[e36bmw///]

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[e36bmw///]

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[ChappedLips]

Yes.

[StupidWade]

Not too often I can say I learned something on Beyond, but tonight I did.

[e36bmw///]

nm

[ChappedLips]

Yes, and that would be a killer profit lol.

[Canmorite]

Options, like any derivative have a fair amount of leverage. If you're going to start playing options, be really careful.

[djayz]

Originally posted by broken_legs
OK

I'm getting tired of stressing out on my manual options trades from the rig here.

I need trailing stops and all that other crap they have on US online trading platforms.

Do any of you guys using those other platforms have these tools? I honestly think a trailing stop would keep me out of a lot of trouble, it would keep me honest and stop me from making emotional decisions.

Etrade has trailing stops under the advanced menu in their trading platform...I finally found it but now I can't even put stop losses because everything I have is at such a big loss haha

[e36bmw///]

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[broken_legs]

Originally posted by e36bmw///
so do i need another account to trade options?
im with cibc investors edge, and i trying buying an option but says i need another account
wtf

You'll need a margin/short account for options. At least thats what TD made me do.

[e36bmw///]

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[Canmorite]

Originally posted by e36bmw///
oh ok thanks


so i was just thinking of a negative about call options

i was watching bnn one day and a guy was wondering about his option i belive

he had visa at a strike price of $65, right the day of the expiry or the day before i think
then visa went up to $70, and the bnn guy said that he now is obligated to sell the stock to the buyer for $65 or something?

can someone explain please

Removed to prevent confusion..

[e36bmw///]

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[Canmorite]

Originally posted by e36bmw///
yea i think thats what it was, he had to buy it for 70 and sell it to the guy for $65


man this is confusing

I'm not sure I understood your question...now what I said isn't making sense to me. haha.

Sounds like he sold a $65 call, it expired at $70, and how he has to go into the market and buy the shares for $70 and sell them for $65...ya that makes more sense.

[e36bmw///]

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[Canmorite]

Originally posted by e36bmw///
wait it think i got it

so if say you have a put option to sell at $50, and it goes down to $40, but you overcome greed and decide not to sell, since you have 12months to? and all of a sudden, the stock hits $60. are you now obligated to sell the stock at $50?

You get shares delivered short at $50, and you would then have to buy them back at $60, or wait for them to come down in price.

[e36bmw///]

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[liquid1010]

Looking at getting into some Nexen and Suncor calls...... at P/E ratios of about 9 they are looking good even in this dismal market......

[broken_legs]

I think we should start a new thread called "Options Explained" and sticky it

:thumbsup:

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by liquid1010
Looking at getting into some Nexen and Suncor calls...... at P/E ratios of about 9 they are looking good even in this dismal market......


2009?

[Pacman]

Bought some DIA December 115 Calls today

I've got SU, DIA, QQQQ, GOOG, PCA, calls all for December. If the market doesn't see a rally by Dec expiry, I will be living in my van down by the river.

[e36bmw///]

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[Pacman]

Originally posted by e36bmw///
hhaha

k sorry
im trying to get this properly

if i buy a SU call of $32 strike price for december at $2.50 per contract

and in dec it goes up to $40. Does that mean the option is now $8?

so a diff of $5.5 or $550 on a $250 invstmt?

The premium will be based on intrinsic and time value.

Do yourself a big favor and buy "Options for Dummies" or call the Montreal Options Exchange and ask them to mail out their free book on options trading before you make any trades. Or else, you are going to lose all your money faster than doubling down 4 against an face in blackjack.

[e36bmw///]

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[Bimmer88]

What are some good stocks ot invest into?

Gold is probably the obvious but what stocks? Any tips would be helpful!

Thanks!

[SilverRex]

Originally posted by Bimmer88
What are some good stocks ot invest into?

Gold is probably the obvious but what stocks? Any tips would be helpful!

Thanks!

gold looking good we are at 884 looking to break higher.

Gold stock was so cheap yesterday but has rebounded significantly.

if you want stocks the biggest one of all is Barrick Gold biggest gold producer in the world. and mid cap stocks would be AUY/KGC Stay away from jrs in this volatile market.

Funds I recommend GLD and CEF

[ChappedLips]

Wait a little longer, most of these days every stock will get dumped no matter if it is in good shape or not. Unless you are going to hold for the long term then stay out for now.

We don't know where the bottom is and you may lose quite a bit of money if you just jump in.

[SilverRex]

the hui index is looking pretty on the weekly chart (bullish)

I can see gold stocks rebounding in a big way soon if not already happening now.

im in USO 71 bux, now sit and relax. the worse case scenario? oil will be still trading in this level next year, best case? if it goes after 147 high again, that is a 70% profit. I'm liking my odds here

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by broken_legs

Testing a hunch i bought some 25 oct puts at 1.12 right at the close. I could be totally wrong and the market might take off tomorrow, but I think there's going to be some more weakness. Worst case I will hold onto them until they expire on the 17th and lose all my money. Next stop DOW 7700! Lots of shite earnings going to be coming out soon!




Looks like I nailed that one on the head. Suncor is taking a nose dive, just fell through the 28.00 dollar support level. I think it might bounce off 26 dollars again. If it does I will load up on calls again.

Bid 1.35, ask 1.55....

EDIT:

Frick.... Go for a sandwich at camp, come back and Suncor has bounced off 26.60. I need to find a better way to trade options!

[SilverRex]

So far HUI is holding up well, if we can close today at current levels this will be very bullish for the short term.

I need the hammer candle stick to hold on the weekly chart and when it does, time to suit up with ABX/KGC or even AUY as I'm pretty sure they will all move 30-40% within weeks on the upside.

This is my take.

kuz im bull on gold straight to 2009 (1433/ouce) baby.

[djayz]

SilverRex do you trade HGU?...what would be a good entry point for the bull run. I wish I had gotten in under 10 yesterday but I just found this etf since I was following HBU.

Also anyone scooping up income trusts? Some of them yielding close to 20% :eek:

[broken_legs]

11:15 Bernanke is going to make a speech.


EDIT:

Speech just started.
He is speaking on "recent developments in the economy and the challenges we now face"

[djayz]

Why is he rambling on about shit we know?

[Canmorite]

Originally posted by djayz
Why is he rambling on about shit we know?

He's speaking to Main Street, not Wall Street ;)

[broken_legs]

DOW just sold off 150 points while he was talking

[djayz]

Originally posted by Canmorite


He's speaking to Main Street, not Wall Street ;)

He should be talking some sense into Wall Street.

Edit: I stopped watching...did he hint anything about a rate cut?

[SilverRex]

Originally posted by djayz


He should be talking some sense into Wall Street.

Edit: I stopped watching...did he hint anything about a rate cut?

yes he did



on another front. I was reading some article about silver spot price. And though all I could focus is on gold and oil. I did a quick peak and realize silver has bouced off its yearly trendline and had completely tested its 61.8% retracement from its peak to low of 5 dollars in the last decade.

if your a technical follower, this is pretty significant level.

I have been reading there is to be a time when silver to gold ratio was at around 16 to 1 instead of the 70 to 1 you see now. And expert are saying there are less silver in the world than gold when people realizes this, silver has the potential to move higher in its own price compare to gold. Since government owns gold they could at least control it to a certain extend. But not silver.

Knowing it is near its bottom again. it does look mighty attractive at current price given gold demand is rising and people will result to silver when gold could not be found.

I'm going to throw 100 dollars in to the spot price with a stop limit below 10 dollars and have 800 dollar as buffer incase it does dip to 10 bucks If silver does surge back to 17-20 dollars in coming months. I would have turn 100 dollars into 3000-4000 dollars. thanks to a 50 to 1 margin leverage.

:)

[djayz]

Originally posted by SilverRex


I'm going to throw 100 dollars in to the spot price with a stop limit below 10 dollars and have 800 dollar as buffer incase it does dip to 10 bucks If silver does surge back to 17-20 dollars in coming months. I would have turn 100 dollars into 3000-4000 dollars. thanks to a 50 to 1 margin leverage.

:)

What?...haha break that down for us slow folk.

[Beerking]

Originally posted by SilverRex


yes he did



on another front. I was reading some article about silver spot price. And though all I could focus is on gold and oil. I did a quick peak and realize silver has bouced off its yearly trendline and had completely tested its 61.8% retracement from its peak to low of 5 dollars in the last decade.

if your a technical follower, this is pretty significant level.

I have been reading there is to be a time when silver to gold ratio was at around 16 to 1 instead of the 70 to 1 you see now. And expert are saying there are less silver in the world than gold when people realizes this, silver has the potential to move higher in its own price compare to gold. Since government owns gold they could at least control it to a certain extend. But not silver.

Knowing it is near its bottom again. it does look mighty attractive at current price given gold demand is rising and people will result to silver when gold could not be found.

I'm going to throw 100 dollars in to the spot price with a stop limit below 10 dollars and have 800 dollar as buffer incase it does dip to 10 bucks If silver does surge back to 17-20 dollars in coming months. I would have turn 100 dollars into 3000-4000 dollars. thanks to a 50 to 1 margin leverage.

:)

Are you looking at ETF's here or what?
Where you putting this money into?

[broken_legs]

i think hes trading commodities futures

[Schwa]

Originally posted by djayz

Also anyone scooping up income trusts? Some of them yielding close to 20% :eek:

Picked up some PMT.UN last week when I thought it was a steal. It's even more of a steal now. Harvest energy (HTE.uN) is yielding 28% right now.

Also picked up some Nov SU calls today.

[broken_legs]

ummmmm


So i just bought 70 30.00 calls on suncor... :eek:

[liquid1010]

Originally posted by broken_legs
ummmmm


So i just bought 70 30.00 calls on suncor... :eek:

LOL... you must have more money than me :nut: What maturity?

I picked up some LEAPS - with Mar09 maturity early this morning.

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by liquid1010


LOL... you must have more money than me :nut: What maturity?

I picked up some LEAPS - with Mar09 maturity early this morning.

I'm hoping I just bought a lottery ticket... Oct. :barf:

Was able to buy most of it at the second lowest price of the day at 1.05.

SU has some serious support at 26 bux. Last half of the day SU woudn't budge when the dow sold off another 200 points. If theres a bounce (like this morning) I'm hoping it goes back up to 29-30 and I double my money...

[Schwa]

go team Suncor!

[bigbadboss101]

Originally posted by Schwa
go team Suncor!

I work there. In Fort Mac. ;-)

But live in Calgary, where the pretty ladies are.

[e36bmw///]

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[e36bmw///]

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[broken_legs]

I thought we had a deal :rolleyes:

[e36bmw///]

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[liquid1010]

Originally posted by e36bmw///
haha you responded once

i dont think you even knew i aready made a thread lol

I say this with the greatest respect; Do do yourself a favour and trade options with fake money for a while first - until you understand them. If you don't understand them, you will lose.

[broken_legs]

haha

Lose like im about to tomorrow morning

DOW Futures are DOWN 400 POINTS!!!!!!

:facepalm:

[Pacman]

Originally posted by broken_legs
haha

Lose like im about to tomorrow morning

DOW Futures are DOWN 400 POINTS!!!!!!

:facepalm:

Join the club.....I've got a slew of Decembers calls and have a long way to go before I'm in the money.

I thought we had hit bottom yesterday......but was wrong.

[sneek]

wow my stocks are all worthless...:facepalm:

going to put in a bid for EEV tomorrow morning.

[e36bmw///]

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[Pacman]

Originally posted by e36bmw///


i know man, but where?

investopedia doesnt let you write calls yet
they are working on it

Jeesh, it took me a year before I was comfortable collecting premiums and writing the calls/puts. You don't mess around.....

[e36bmw///]

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[djayz]

Originally posted by broken_legs
haha

Lose like im about to tomorrow morning

DOW Futures are DOWN 400 POINTS!!!!!!

:facepalm:

:barf: I've got enough cash left to buy me a burger and the bottom still hasn't come yet? WTF!

[broken_legs]

Sooooooooooooo


Jakarta Finishes DOWN 10.33% with the circuit breaker tripped
Hang Seng down 5.55%
Nikkei down 9.3 %

Lets see whats happening in Europe now dum dum dum

down 2% so far


I think im going to hang myself tomorrow morning...

There should be a massive 1000 point rally on one of these days, just thought it was going to be tomorrow, but who knows

[broken_legs]

http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_01/seymour062001pv.html

[broken_legs]

Holy Christ, Europe is tanking 5-10% across the board!

Dow Futures are still down 300 points.


My guess is that things are going to crash big today but then rally back huge on news of a rate cut, and the capital injection into the european banks.

well thats what im praying for anyways.... haha

[Altezza]

The morning is going to be ugly....

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by Altezza
The morning is going to be ugly....


maybe not.... I haven't slept in like 2 days tehres so much going on in the markets.

Ive been watching CNBC Europe and they just released the details on the UK Bailout plan. The FTSE actually turned around and so have the dow futures...

Maybe today IS the day of the rally after all.

China and Australia announced rate cuts, now all we need is the Fed to announce a 100 bp cut and WHAMMO 1000 point rally.

Gold is over 900 dollars this morning too....!

[Altezza]

Oil is still down, gold is up, and CAD is getting weaker. I still have a feeling TSX will be down tomorrow unless there's a major event (ie, a giant rate cut).

[SilverRex]

looks like the world got what they wanted, joint rate cut, I mean this is great for gold

is the it?

[bigbadboss101]

I pray for a recovery that will surpass all the losses over the last few weeks. Then I am gonna sell all and put $ into the house.

[SilverRex]

gold up to 919, silver close to 12 sweet

[SilverRex]

looks like rate cut news isnt helping the market.

whats is happening is, any rally becomes a sell off for people to take money off the table.