Alberta takes a 'real kick in the head'

[broken_legs]

Alberta deficit soars on natural gas bust
Provincial shortfall nears $7-billion as key source of revenue dries up; ‘a real kick in the head'

LINKY: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/albertas-deficit-hits-record-7-billion/article1265638/


ya ya ya Everything is fine... Everyone is moving to Alberta to create demand for houses and economy is booming

[adam c]

cause stelmach is a fucking idiot

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by adam c
cause stelmach is a fucking idiot


Yea stupid Stelmach making NG prices go down 80%
:rolleyes:

[adam c]

or how about the other stuff he did (taxing big oil and driving it out of alberta)?
or how about not planning for a reduction in profit due to a recession?

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by adam c
or how about the other stuff he did (taxing big oil and driving it out of alberta)?

And how did that affect natural gas prices?


or how about not planning for a reduction in profit due to a recession?

They did plan for one and accepted that there would be a deficit rather than pulling billions out of the public sector in a recession or raising taxes. I hate Stelmach as much as the next guy but these arguments are just stupid.

[97'Scort]

The bigger question is how are we so utterly dependent on oil and gas that, basically all things the same, a gas price drop can launch us 7 billion in debt?

[Canmorite]

So since theres a huge deficit, do we need to give them $400 now? What a great idea that was.

[ExtraSlow]

The wild increase in spending is the biggest culprit.
It's shocking how Alberta is now the highest per capita spender in Canada. That was never going to be sustainable with such low taxes. We needed the resource revenues to keep this pipe dream alive.

Spending is the problem here, not revenue.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
The wild increase in spending is the biggest culprit.
It's shocking how Alberta is now the highest per capita spender in Canada. That was never going to be sustainable with such low taxes. We needed the resource revenues to keep this pipe dream alive.

Spending is the problem here, not revenue.

Well as Ralph said, you spend during a recession, it would be in poor taste to go against the recommendation of everybody's favorite political mind in this province.

Though Alberta has so much catching up to do with infrastructure we can't reduce spending in any significant way, streamline it a bit sure, but all the major projects still need to go through.

[im2fst4u]

Originally posted by adam c
cause stelmach is a fucking idiot

THIS!

[Thomas Gabriel]

Originally posted by kertejud2


Well as Ralph said, you spend during a recession, it would be in poor taste to go against the recommendation of everybody's favorite political mind in this province.


I guess they don't realize that Keynesian economics is essentially Socialism Lite. Not surprising that a Red Tory like Ralph and most of the provincial PCs would support it.

[badatusrnames]

Originally posted by adam c
cause stelmach is a fucking idiot

Stelmach hasn't done a lot for oil & gas in Alberta, but sub $3.00 gas is the culprit here...

IMHO resource royalties should never go into general revenue. The resources isn't renewable and neither is the cash, so stick it away... encourage business to thrive here and reap the rewards of that through corporate and income taxes.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by Thomas Gabriel


I guess they don't realize that Keynesian economics is essentially Socialism Lite. Not surprising that a Red Tory like Ralph and most of the provincial PCs would support it.

Actually it was just Ralph's excuse to not spend any money on infrastructure projects during the boom. "Buy things during a recession because they'll be cheaper" was basically what he said, but I don't think he thought there would be a recession anytime soon.

And you must be one of those libertards (yes, that is immature namecalling for libertarians) if you think Ralph is a Red Tory (I take great insult being one myself).

[Seanith]

Originally posted by kertejud2

all the major projects still need to go through.

If only all the scared, crybaby Big Oil Companies would do this as well.

[Redlyne_mr2]

Lets build more trillion dollar pedestrian bridges.

[TorqueDog]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
Lets build more trillion dollar pedestrian bridges. Muncipal project - not provincial.

[masoncgy]

This just shows how critical natural gas is to our economy... it's one big chunk of the revenue pie...

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by TorqueDog
Muncipal project - not provincial.

Provincially funded.

[ZenOps]

So, I guess this means that this year - We will be recieving federal tax equalization payments (Poor province equalization)

Such is the nature of the carbon beast, especially heating oils. You can be paying $13.51 a GJ one year and then $1.46 the next.

Stelmach was blamed for overtaxing big oil. Now its looking like it was not a bad idea to "curb" big oil a bit. Yes - he did screw up the royalties in big oils favor now that its at a low - probably much to Rob Anders liking (where capitalism rules - province deserves dick.)

IMO Stelmach listened to his advisors too much on that deal - as to whether or not the advisors were corrupt is debateable.

But regardless its really noones fault - the worldwide demand is the main driver of prices. She is a tempermental beast big oil - one day shes going down on you rodeo style - and the next shes planning how to cut you up for steak dinner.

I'd like to blame Rob Anders somehow - but I can't. Rob is probably working on another one paragraph speech so that he can earn his paycheque for another two years. And even he has more morality than to use his publically attained position to gain personal advantage or push his own agenda (Hell waits for those who abuse power, biblically speaking)

http://www.wtrg.com/daily/oilandgasspot.html

[TorqueDog]

Originally posted by Xtrema
Provincially funded. Thanks - didn't know that.

Why in the hell did the province offer to pay for an idiotic footbridge in the first place? :facepalm:

[sputnik]

Originally posted by TorqueDog
Muncipal project - not provincial.

It was actually provincially funded from the $3 billion designated for urban transportation infrastructure.

[sputnik]

I would blame the drop in natural gas prices with the increase in the shale gas extraction in Texas, Wyoming and northern British Columbia. Natural Gas is VERY abundant right now and supply is increasing much faster than crude oil.

However that may change with the EPA currently investigating if shale gas development is ruining drinking water supplies in the area.

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by sputnik
I would blame the drop in natural gas prices with the increase in the shale gas extraction in Texas, Wyoming and northern British Columbia. Natural Gas is VERY abundant right now and supply is increasing much faster than crude oil.

However that may change with the EPA currently investigating if shale gas development is ruining drinking water supplies in the area.

Just like Alberta investigated if CBM was messing up the water table here...

[freshprince1]

Originally posted by ZenOps
So, I guess this means that this year - We will be recieving federal tax equalization payments (Poor province equalization)

Such is the nature of the carbon beast, especially heating oils. You can be paying $13.51 a GJ one year and then $1.46 the next.

Stelmach was blamed for overtaxing big oil. Now its looking like it was not a bad idea to "curb" big oil a bit. Yes - he did screw up the royalties in big oils favor now that its at a low - probably much to Rob Anders liking (where capitalism rules - province deserves dick.)

IMO Stelmach listened to his advisors too much on that deal - as to whether or not the advisors were corrupt is debateable.

But regardless its really noones fault - the worldwide demand is the main driver of prices. She is a tempermental beast big oil - one day shes going down on you rodeo style - and the next shes planning how to cut you up for steak dinner.

I'd like to blame Rob Anders somehow - but I can't. Rob is probably working on another one paragraph speech so that he can earn his paycheque for another two years. And even he has more morality than to use his publically attained position to gain personal advantage or push his own agenda (Hell waits for those who abuse power, biblically speaking)

http://www.wtrg.com/daily/oilandgasspot.html

Good points - I agree on most levels.

But can you please drop the Rob Anders thing? Its really getting old.

[atgilchrist]

Most shale is much deeper than any non-saline drinkable water aquifers.

But I digress, +1 for all the Stelmach is an idiot comments.

[sputnik]

I still have yet to hear a valid correlation with Stelmach being "an idiot" and the drop in natural gas prices.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by TorqueDog
Thanks - didn't know that.

Why in the hell did the province offer to pay for an idiotic footbridge in the first place? :facepalm:

Because a footbridge was needed and rather than making the same old communist bloc style ones, they decided to build unique looking ones. The timing was unlucky I suppose. That said I support the footbridges, kind of sad its one of the first attempts by the city at something unique in its infrastructure, but its a start...I guess.

Or it could be said that first the city would hire architects who would be able to pay the salaries of the people in their firm from the money, they would also need to hire engineers and then of course there is the construction workers themselves. Basically publically funded trickle down economics; capitalism with a twist as it were.

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by sputnik
I still have yet to hear a valid correlation with Stelmach being "an idiot" and the drop in natural gas prices.

The correlation = Uneducated rigpigs complaining about being laid off.

[sputnik]

Originally posted by Weapon_R


The correlation = Uneducated rigpigs complaining about being laid off.

Ah yes.

Forgot about the "rig pig factor" out here.

I guess they are just grumpy that they wont be able to make payments on their quads, snowmobiles, boats and jacked up redneck 1 ton dually Dodge Rams.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by sputnik


Ah yes.

Forgot about the "rig pig factor" out here.

I guess they are just grumpy that they wont be able to make payments on their quads, snowmobiles, boats and jacked up redneck 1 ton dually Dodge Rams.

And cocaine.

[masoncgy]

Originally posted by sputnik
I still have yet to hear a valid correlation with Stelmach being "an idiot" and the drop in natural gas prices.

hahaha... and you likely won't get it... ;)

He's an idiot on other matters such as the liquor tax he pushed forward and then removed... that is just poor leadership, plain & simple.

I don't think he's a good leader for Alberta either... but yeah, the natural gas shortfall has nothing to do with his leadership... simply supply & demand and our province having it's eggs in one basket...

[89coupe]

Originally posted by adam c
cause stelmach is a fucking idiot

What do you expect from a dumb fucking redneck farmer.

Anyone that isn't in Oil & Gas automatically assumes our industry is a river of endless money and that we should be sharing it with the rest of the province.

Morons.

[Criticull]

We're in a bad spot from volatilty I think. The last few years brought a huge move to the upside in the energy sector, everybody moved here, and the public sector had to expand and wanted to spend like crazy cuz we had crazy ass money. Then we stopped making profit, hence the shortfall. If things weren't as good as they were, I doubt the plans would have been so grandiose, and the deficit as large as it is. That said we still have a lot of money as a province. Let's invest it in diversification?

[sputnik]

Originally posted by 89coupe


What do you expect from a dumb fucking redneck farmer.

Anyone that isn't in Oil & Gas automatically assumes our industry is a river of endless money and that we should be sharing it with the rest of the province.

Morons.

So what should be done with the royalty money collected?

Taxes go into the public sector. Which essentially means it should be distributed to the entire province as needed.

Are you suggesting that the money currently being spent on schools, hospitals, roads and other infrastructure shouldn't be spent?

[89coupe]

Originally posted by sputnik


So what should be done with the royalty money collected?

Taxes go into the public sector. Which essentially means it should be distributed to the entire province as needed.

Are you suggesting that the money currently being spent on schools, hospitals, roads and other infrastructure shouldn't be spent?

I'm saying the Royalty tax that he implemented should have never been done as it fucked us Oil & Gas guys "Royally".

[ZenOps]

Originally posted by Criticull
We're in a bad spot from volatilty I think. The last few years brought a huge move to the upside in the energy sector, everybody moved here, and the public sector had to expand and wanted to spend like crazy cuz we had crazy ass money. Then we stopped making profit, hence the shortfall. If things weren't as good as they were, I doubt the plans would have been so grandiose, and the deficit as large as it is. That said we still have a lot of money as a province. Let's invest it in diversification?

The last time we tried diversification - We got Nortel.

Lets not do that again please.

[sputnik]

Originally posted by 89coupe
I'm saying the Royalty tax that he implemented should have never been done as it fucked us Oil & Gas guys "Royally".

What does that have to do with low natural gas prices?

[89coupe]

Originally posted by sputnik


What does that have to do with low natural gas prices?

I was simply voicing my opinion on Stelmach and how his Royalty tax fucked us over.

...and now that Natural Gas prices are in the shitter, it has just made things even worse.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by 89coupe


I'm saying the Royalty tax that he implemented should have never been done as it fucked us Oil & Gas guys "Royally".

Lets change the language used, he didn't implement a tax, they changed the tax structure that already existed. And despite the change, it is still one of the lowest in the world, which is why when it comes to areas with their nest egg from royalties, Alberta has less money for when the wells dry up than Alaska does.

[89coupe]

Originally posted by kertejud2


Lets change the language used, he didn't implement a tax, they changed the tax structure that already existed. And despite the change, it is still one of the lowest in the world, which is why when it comes to areas with their nest egg from royalties, Alberta has less money for when the wells dry up than Alaska does.

Changed for the worse.

Fucking stupid Albertan's think they deserve a piece of the pie just because they live here? LOL, get off your fat fucking lazy ass and see how easy it is to explore.

Should farmers pay a royalty tax for growing grain on Alberta's land? The dirt is a natural resource, without it they couldn't grow their crops. :rofl:

[sputnik]

Originally posted by 89coupe
Should farmers pay a royalty tax for growing grain on Alberta's land? The dirt is a natural resource, without it they couldn't grow their crops. :rofl:

Dirt is a renewable resource, oil and gas is not.

If the farmers were selling the topsoil the the US, you could bet that royalties would be charged.

Looks like you are dumber than a "redneck farmer".

[ZenOps]

Lets not go overboard here. Natural gas prices are in the dumper sure....

But lets not forget Alberta has no debt and no extra consumer level provincial sales tax. We are still better off than the rest of Canada, and ridiculously better off than most of the US (especially near bankrupt California, and housing collapsed Detroit)

[ipeefreely]

Originally posted by 89coupe


Changed for the worse.

Fucking stupid Albertan's think they deserve a piece of the pie just because they live here? LOL, get off your fat fucking lazy ass and see how easy it is to explore.

Should farmers pay a royalty tax for growing grain on Alberta's land? The dirt is a natural resource, without it they couldn't grow their crops. :rofl:

:facepalm:

Royalties aren’t taxes.... farmers/ranchers pay the government to lease crown land....

You think the crown should give everything away for free?? Would you if you owned mineral rights?? :nut:

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by 89coupe

Changed for the worse.

I'm sure the oil companies will manage. If they don't like it, they can give their rights to somebody else.


Fucking stupid Albertan's think they deserve a piece of the pie just because they live here? LOL, get off your fat fucking lazy ass and see how easy it is to explore.

Well, Albertans own the mineral rights (as per the Constitution, if you don't like the rules we play by in this country, get out I guess), so why would we just give them away for free?

I am of course using 'we' and 'our' as liberally as possible, sparing all of the 'the government is representative of us' mumbo jumbo.



Should farmers pay a royalty tax for growing grain on Alberta's land? The dirt is a natural resource, without it they couldn't grow their crops. :rofl:

Well, no. I'd get into the specifics of agricultural leases and ownership but its quite dry. In short, you can grow crops because they are a renewable resource, if the farmer were to sell the dirt it would be a different story.

And the farmer owns renewable resource rights on his land, if any oil were to be underneath, it belongs to the province.

[89coupe]

Originally posted by sputnik


Dirt is a renewable resource, oil and gas is not.

If the farmers were selling the topsoil the the US, you could bet that royalties would be charged.

Looks like you are dumber than a "redneck farmer".

What the fuck does it matter if its renewable or not? Does that automatically mean it should be shared?

LOL, does that mean if you had a hot girlfriend that I should get to fuck her to, cause she's not renewable?

Who's the dumby?

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by 89coupe


What the fuck does it matter if its renewable or not? Does that automatically mean it should be shared?

It matters because it determines who owns what. The province owns non-renewable resources, simple as that.


LOL, does that mean if you had a hot girlfriend that I should get to fuck her to, cause she's not renewable?

She is renewable as you can fuck her more than once. Swing and a miss.


Who's the dumby?

What an unfortunate spelling error.

[89coupe]

Originally posted by kertejud2


I'm sure the oil companies will manage. If they don't like it, they can give their rights to somebody else.

Well, Albertans own the mineral rights (as per the Constitution, if you don't like the rules we play by in this country, get out I guess), so why would we just give them away for free?

I am of course using 'we' and 'our' as liberally as possible, sparing all of the 'the government is representative of us' mumbo jumbo.

Well, no. I'd get into the specifics of agricultural leases and ownership but its quite dry. In short, you can grow crops because they are a renewable resource, if the farmer were to sell the dirt it would be a different story.

And the farmer owns renewable resource rights on his land, if any oil were to be underneath, it belongs to the province.

LOL, what a crock of shit.

I hate the word 'we' do you have worms or something?

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by 89coupe


LOL, what a crock of shit.

Do go on, I'm curious to hear your interpretation of mineral and resource rights in the Constitution.



I hate the word 'we' do you have worms or something?

I'm talking 'Royally' about 'Royalties'. *rimshot*

[89coupe]

Originally posted by kertejud2


It matters because it determines who owns what. The province owns non-renewable resources, simple as that.



She is renewable as you can fuck her more than once. Swing and a miss.



What an unfortunate spelling error.

LOL, what a joke.

Sure you can fuck her more then once, but she eventually gets old and dries up....hmmm

Kind of sounds like a well hey?

Hey lets start playing the spelling game, goof.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by TorqueDog
Why in the hell did the province offer to pay for an idiotic footbridge in the first place? :facepalm:

It's part of a multi-year multi-billion dollar toward municipal transportation infrastructure. C-Trian, Buses, roads and :rolleyes: useless foot bridges.

[89coupe]

Originally posted by ipeefreely

You think the crown should give everything away for free?? Would you if you owned mineral rights?? :nut:

You guys obviously don't work in the Oil & Gas sector.

Its simple greed, a little more, a little more, a little more, until eventually there is nothing left. You've sucked the well dry, no more money, ooops!

Ever heard the analogy, the straw that broke the cammels back?

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by 89coupe


LOL, what a joke.

Sure you can fuck her more then once, but she eventually gets old and dries up....hmmm

Kind of sounds like a well hey?

Hey lets start playing the spelling game, goof.

And here I was just trying to spare you the embarassment of comparing resource rights to a person.

The girlfriend could have a child, which grows up into another hot girlfirend and you can fuck that, when the well dries up, its gone.

Keep them coming 'dumby'.

[Toma]

As I predicted last year....

Just like in the NEP years, some will blame the government, others will see it for what it is.... global drop in resource prices that Alberta has no control over whatsoever.

Oh well

:dunno:

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally posted by Toma
some will blame the government, others will see it for what it is.... global drop in resource prices that Alberta has no control over whatsoever.



I don't understand why some people can't seem to get that figured out. Prices are down everywhere, it's not like Alberta lives in a bubble with prices dictated by the government.

[ipeefreely]

Originally posted by 89coupe


You guys obviously don't work in the Oil & Gas sector.

Its simple greed, a little more, a little more, a little more, until eventually there is nothing left. You've sucked the well dry, no more money, ooops!

Ever heard the analogy, the straw that broke the cammels back?

Actually I do!:zzz:


You must be the poster child of Big Bad Oil/Gas Companies! :rolleyes:

[Pahnda]

Originally posted by kertejud2
...The girlfriend could have a child, which grows up into another hot girlfirend and you can fuck that...

I don't like where that's going... Sounds like Austrian logic to me.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by Pahnda


I don't like where that's going...

I never said it was right, just renewable. ;)

[sputnik]

Originally posted by 89coupe
You guys obviously don't work in the Oil & Gas sector.

Its simple greed, a little more, a little more, a little more, until eventually there is nothing left. You've sucked the well dry, no more money, ooops!

Ever heard the analogy, the straw that broke the cammels back?

I have worked in the oil and gas sector for the past 9 years. Six of which was directly involved in Natural Gas trading.

I know very well how the system works. I also have first hand experience as to how well O&G companies do when prices are through the roof. Big bonuses are paid out, gas traders buy Ferraris and everyone is laughing. If natural gas was over $10/GJ no one in the city would give a flying f_ck how high royalty rates are.

The moment the commodity is in the crapper everyone blames the royalty programs. They never seem to blame the lack of demand, or the fact that they have drilled thousands of wells in the past 5 years and most of them are going directly into storage or being shut down.

No of course not. They just blame Stelmach and assume that if Ralphy was still around gas prices would be upwards of $10 still.

It is in times like this that the highly leveraged small companies begin to hemorrhage money. If gas prices stay too low they will die with or without royalty rate changes.

Blaming Stelmach or the royalty rates (which are still the lowest in the WORLD) makes you just look stupid.

[89coupe]

I'm glad you enjoy being bent over and fucked in the ass.

What company do you work for Sput? Ipee?

[Criticull]

Originally posted by ZenOps


The last time we tried diversification - We got Nortel.

Lets not do that again please.

Really, so no investment in other sectors at all? Seems myopic. Better to be boom then hedged, than boom then busted.

[Criticull]

Originally posted by 89coupe
I'm glad you enjoy being bent over and fucked in the ass.

What company do you work for Sput? Ipee?

Alberta still has one of the most lenient royalty regimes in the World. The Crown was getting raped so they took a bigger cut. If you compare the programs across jurisdictions, Albertan producers are still owning the shit out of an exhaustible resource. Alberta also has LOW ass corporate and personal income taxes. Look at Norway if you want a socialist model for oil revenues, don't complain because the ride isn't as cheap as it once was.

Boom and bust sucks anyway, but complaining about royalties is missing the issue.

[sputnik]

Originally posted by 89coupe
I'm glad you enjoy being bent over and fucked in the ass.

What company do you work for Sput? Ipee?

I worked for the Natural Gas Exchange and now EnCana.

[89coupe]

Originally posted by Criticull


Alberta still has one of the most lenient royalty regimes in the World. The Crown was getting raped so they took a bigger cut. If you compare the programs across jurisdictions, Albertan producers are still owning the shit out of an exhaustible resource. Alberta also has LOW ass corporate and personal income taxes. Look at Norway if you want a socialist model for oil revenues, don't complain because the ride isn't as cheap as it once was.

Boom and bust sucks anyway, but complaining about royalties is missing the issue.

Why do people always compare us to other Countries? Who the fuck cares, it doesn't mean its right.

Getting fucked in the ass once, instead of twice or three times doesn't make it any better. :rofl:

[sputnik]

Originally posted by 89coupe
Why do people always compare us to other Countries? Who the fuck cares, it doesn't mean its right.

Doesn't seem to stop O&G companies from doing business in Norway or anywhere else for that matter. Why should Norway get more money and Alberta get screwed over?

[89coupe]

Originally posted by sputnik


Doesn't seem to stop O&G companies from doing business in Norway or anywhere else for that matter. Why should Norway get more money and Alberta get screwed over?

How is Alberta getting screwed over?

We are the most prosperous province in Canada.

[B4tMan]

Originally posted by kertejud2
I hate Stelmach as much as the next guy but these arguments are just stupid.
well said

[Criticull]

Originally posted by 89coupe


How is Alberta getting screwed over?

We are the most prosperous province in Canada.

Does being the most prosperous province in Canada make it alright to allow producers to exploit the resources and not provide the public sector with its fair share? Alberta could be more prosperous in the long-run and probably not suffer from these short-run dutch diseases by charging higher royalties and taking things more slowly. But that defeats the boom and bust mentality, which is clearly so pervasive.

I'm long oil companies, I want to see them do well, for the health of individuals in the province, but the libertarian view (a conservative definition) would be to uphold property rights. The property (resource in this case) is owned by the province. Therefore, it can charge what it wants for those rights.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by 89coupe


How is Alberta getting screwed over?

We are the most prosperous province in Canada.

Well in addition to just being ignorant to the issue of constitutional mineral rights and not being able to make an analogy worth a damn you're also incredibly short sighted.

Royalties exist for non-renewable resources so that when the resources run out, the province has something to show for it. Alberta's Heritage Fund has about $15B in it for the future (i.e. when all your O&G companies fold because there's no oil left).

Just as a comparison, Alaska has $30B and that is with annual payouts of $2,000 to all of its citizens, yet not only is oil still being pumped, oil companies are fighting tooth and nail to drill in the ANWR. And their fund has been around for about as long as ours (less people, twice as much money, how do the oil companies survive?!)

Norway has $400B saved away through taxes, royalties and state-owned oil companies.

Why compare to other countries? To show that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. So explain, why is it that Alaska, a right-wing dominated state, and Norway, a left-wing dominated country are able to have a successful petroleum industry despite their "fucking in the ass" of oil companies?

[sputnik]

Originally posted by kertejud2


Well in addition to just being ignorant to the issue of constitutional mineral rights and not being able to make an analogy worth a damn you're also incredibly short sighted.

Royalties exist for non-renewable resources so that when the resources run out, the province has something to show for it. Alberta's Heritage Fund has about $15B in it for the future (i.e. when all your O&G companies fold because there's no oil left).

Just as a comparison, Alaska has $30B and that is with annual payouts of $2,000 to all of its citizens, yet not only is oil still being pumped, oil companies are fighting tooth and nail to drill in the ANWR. And their fund has been around for about as long as ours (less people, twice as much money, how do the oil companies survive?!)

Norway has $400B saved away through taxes, royalties and state-owned oil companies.

Why compare to other countries? To show that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. So explain, why is it that Alaska, a right-wing dominated state, and Norway, a left-wing dominated country are able to have a successful petroleum industry despite their "fucking in the ass" of oil companies?

:werd:

[89coupe]

Originally posted by Criticull


Does being the most prosperous province in Canada make it alright to allow producers to exploit the resources and not provide the public sector with its fair share? Alberta could be more prosperous in the long-run and probably not suffer from these short-run dutch diseases by charging higher royalties and taking things more slowly. But that defeats the boom and bust mentality, which is clearly so pervasive.

I'm long oil companies, I want to see them do well, for the health of individuals in the province, but the libertarian view (a conservative definition) would be to uphold property rights. The property (resource in this case) is owned by the province. Therefore, it can charge what it wants for those rights.

Fair share? Am I going to share with some lazy cunt who hasn't put a dime into the work it takes to find and produce something?

Um no.

LOL, the government really knows how to fuck the dog thats for sure, lets sit back on our lazy fucking ass and let someone else take all the risk and do all the work and we will make them give us a share.

I like how you guys take the bitch approach.

I would laugh my ass off if every single Oil & Gas company shut everything in and refused to sell a drop to anyone that wasn't working for them.

All the lazy cunts wouldn't make it through one winter.

[Criticull]

Originally posted by 89coupe


Fair share? Am I going to share with some lazy cunt who hasn't put a dime into the work it takes to find and produce something?

Um no.

LOL, the government really knows how to fuck the dog thats for sure, lets sit back on our lazy fucking ass and let someone else take all the risk and do all the work and we will make them give us a share.

I like how you guys take the bitch approach.

I would laugh my ass off if every single Oil & Gas company shut everything in and refused to sell a drop to anyone that wasn't working for them.

All the lazy cunts wouldn't make it through one winter.

As long as there is margin there, they will never shut in over the long-run. That's why you can charge them more royalties. Are you even reading responses to your inanity? Forget it.

[89coupe]

Originally posted by Criticull


As long as there is margin there, they will never shut in over the long-run. That's why you can charge them more royalties. Are you even reading responses to your inanity? Forget it.

I'm ignoring them because I don't believe in their ride the coat tails mentality.

Learn to change, diversify, overcome. If you rely on one source then you will fail in the end.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by 89coupe


LOL, the government really knows how to fuck the dog thats for sure, lets sit back on our lazy fucking ass and let someone else take all the risk and do all the work and we will make them give us a share.

Why not? The province owns it, if somebody else wants to pay to do all the work, you let them.



I like how you guys take the bitch approach.

I would laugh my ass off if every single Oil & Gas company shut everything in and refused to sell a drop to anyone that wasn't working for them.

All the lazy cunts wouldn't make it through one winter.

Wouldn't it be funnier if they limited supply to drive the price up forcing us to pay more? If they shut everything in they wouldn't be making any money, not to mention they wouldn't be able to secure any resource rights in the future after pissing off the province meaning shareholders will pull out causing the company's value to plummet and it would be gobbled up by a different company who wasn't stupid and actually made money, then there would be downsizing and Alberta just charges a different company for royalties.

It would be hilarious!

[Criticull]

Originally posted by 89coupe


I'm ignoring them because I don't believe in their ride the coat tails mentality.

Learn to change, diversify, overcome. If you rely on one source then you will fail in the end.

Diversification requires investment. Use the resources you own to generate the funds required for investment. I know, charge higher royalties!

[Criticull]

^Btw, it is the producers that are riding the province's coat tails that you're referring to, right? Thought so.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by Criticull


Diversification requires investment. Use the resources you own to generate the funds required for investment. I know, charge higher royalties!

Or we could lower royalties and just raise the provincial income tax and introduce PST. That should make everybody happy.

[Criticull]

Originally posted by kertejud2


Or we could lower royalties and just raise the provincial income tax and introduce PST. That should make everybody happy.

Yeah that's valid. I am being pretty glib.

[sputnik]

Originally posted by 89coupe
Fair share? Am I going to share with some lazy cunt who hasn't put a dime into the work it takes to find and produce something?

Um no.

Who are these "lazy c_nts" you refer to?

Are they the ones waiting tables at the restaurants you and other O&G office workers like to go to at lunch? Are they the school teachers your girl learns from? Are they the doctors and nurses that take care of your family when they are in the hospital? Are they the Starbucks baristas up at 5am to get the O&G workers their morning coffee? Are they the cashiers at the grocery store you get your groceries from? Are they the transit drivers up at 4am getting people to work that choose not to pay $30/day for parking?

If the oil was royalty-free to extract you would have every company world wide raping Alberta for every drop of oil and fart of gas and leave when the province is empty and Alberta wouldn't get a dime for it.

Royalties pay for the infrastructure to actually access the oil. Wouldn't it be nice if the road to Fort Mac was a dirt road that was patched once every 10 years? Royalties pay for the hospitals that rig pigs go to after a bar fight or where energy traders go after a coke overdose. Royalties pay for the schools where rig pigs can send their illegitimate kids. Royalties pay for the roads so that the office workers don't sit in traffic for 3 hours trying to get to work. Royalties cover this provinces ass when energy prices go down the tubes.

You have a pretty short sighted view of the province and how royalties affect you.

[89coupe]

Originally posted by kertejud2


Why not? The province owns it, if somebody else wants to pay to do all the work, you let them.



Wouldn't it be funnier if they limited supply to drive the price up forcing us to pay more? If they shut everything in they wouldn't be making any money, not to mention they wouldn't be able to secure any resource rights in the future after pissing off the province meaning shareholders will pull out causing the company's value to plummet and it would be gobbled up by a different company who wasn't stupid and actually made money, then there would be downsizing and Alberta just charges a different company for royalties.

It would be hilarious!

How does someone own something that was here millions of years before anyone was around? Fuck off! Do you work for the government or something...LOL.

You sound like some bitter old fuck with a chip on their shoulder who thinks all the wealthy Oil & Gas CEO's should be giving him hand me outs because they can afford it.

[Criticull]

Originally posted by 89coupe


How does someone own something that was here millions of years before anyone was around? Fuck off!



:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[rage2]

Originally posted by sputnik
I know very well how the system works. I also have first hand experience as to how well O&G companies do when prices are through the roof. Big bonuses are paid out, gas traders buy Ferraris and everyone is laughing.
Leased Ferraris. If they were bought, we'd still see them on the road today. :rofl:

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by 89coupe


How does someone own something that was here millions of years before anyone was around? Fuck off! Do you work for the government or something...LOL.

Yes, how can we own the land, the water or the sky. Can we capture the wind in a jar and sell it? Can we catch a cloud and keep it in our pocket? Or does the soul of the land belong to nature... :rolleyes:

Your ironic native philosophy aside, we can own the oil for the same reason oil companies can sell it. Its a commodity, and while its in the ground, it is the property of the provinces. Why? Because when the country was created that's how it was written. Yes its mostly luck that Alberta's borders happened to have all those hydrocarbons, but te Constitution doesn't really have a clause for 'luck'.

Anyways, for the same reasons you have your civil rights and freedoms as a Canadian citizen, provinces own mineral rights. Its in the Constitution.



You sound like some bitter old fuck with a chip on their shoulder who thinks all the wealthy Oil & Gas CEO's should be giving him hand me outs because they can afford it.

And you sound like a guy who had to go to bag lunches because the company he worked for was brought back down to Earth and they realized you are easily replaceable weren't worth the money and kept the bonuses for themselves. As such, you blame the shortcomings on the government because you don't know any better and because that's what your boss/co-workers blame it on since they are in the same position: generic employees riding the coattails of a successful company who thought it was always the way it was during the boom.

[Criticull]

^ Catch a falling star and put it in your pocket, never let it fade away! :rofl: Made my afternoon.