Boy are TVs ever hard to choose nowadays - so much crap

[r3ccOs]

I was set on buying a new 42' and there are tons of options from tons of stores...

I mean everyone seems to carry Panasonic/Samsung/LG plasmas, some only carry a few Pioneers

Most carry LCDs from Samsung, Sony, LG, Toshiba, etc...

Most new TV's are 1080P and if LCD are all about the 120/240hz

Now with Plasma's its also about 1080P and its ridiculious "dynamic" contrast ratio + some 600hz subfield motion

& we're not even talking about LEDs yet

Anyways, to make a long story short... I bought me an LG 120hz panel and was all excited...

look an LCD w/ a 100:000:1 dynamic ratio!

I bring it home, hook up the blue ray... go though a calibration DVD and, well was unimipressed
really unimpressed

120hz artificially smoothes the picture and just seems to cause excess noise and artifacting that was hard to adjust with the sharpness.

My neighbor, who happened to be all like "I have an old 42" plasma for sale, brought over his panel for a 1 on 1 comparison

Its an older 720P Panasonic PX80 series TV with a claimed native contrast of only 15:000:1

We again went though the calibration and did some A/B switch tests with movies and games...

His old panel just blew mine away. Even with the added resolution, and the 120hz, this panel just can't match its vibrancy, contrast and colors.
Well... I would think the 120hz would have also had a legs up... Noop
No way
What made my movies feel like a handicam, looked way more natural on a plasma.

Did some research, and Plasma panels are only now "advertising" their subfield motion... which at least with Panasonic, even the oldest ones, had a 480hz subfield as the panel flashes its plasma dot 8 times 60hz

The new '09 panels now do it 10 times and hence 600... but really no difference I guess. Pioneer Kuro's do it 14 times, which would be 840hz

Anyways... I'm going to see whether I can return this TV for a good plasma

I was so surprised that 720P can look as good as a 1080P considering its really 1 mp vs 2mp... I guess at 42" it doesn't matter so much

[2Valve0]

WAIT! before you said anything else you could have ended with I bought an LG!
go for sony or samsung

[7thgenvic]

I'm in the same boat right now. I just ended up purchasing a 46" 120Hz Toshiba Regza, and I still prefer the look of my Plasma..Time to go back and do the same. Where did you purchase from?

[r3ccOs]

Bestbuy

The toshiba/lg I think were along the same lines of price and quality..

Kuro & LED rock, but you can get into a great plasma cheap

[rockanrepublic]

i say avoid sharp at least in my experience without a cable box the refresh time is just stupid like 3 second channel or input change time.

[scary_perry]

LG/Phillips makes panels for lots of the other brands you mentioned.

Most of the differences these days are in software - clever programming that goes into the firmware and DSPs.

[roopi]

Definately alot to choose from but stay away from the LG's. Samsung seems to be the best for the price then the Sony's.

[Hash_man]

I hate how most of the new 120hz LCD's look... look like shit if you ask me.

I would much rather buy a plasma or LED, although the plasmas can be had much much cheaper for the most part.

also, dynamic contrast ratios and such are all a gimmic, so just ignore those IMO... most newer TV's are pretty comparable in this field.

Seeing as you bought from BB you shouldnt have any issues returning, so do it up.

[r3ccOs]

I think ultimately to get that depth perception and vibrancy... you need a plasma...

I just haven't seen many LCDs that have impressed me, even the latest XBR

the LEDs on the otherhand are pretty freaking amazing though, considering the slimer profile

[dirtsniffer]

is there even a technology out to support 120 hz? as far as i knew video games were in 60 fps and cable tv was in 24 fps..
IIRC the only reason to spring for a 1080p tv was for a select few video games in 1080 (most are 720) and blurays.. why bother with a 120 hz or a 240 hz? so i can look at the same frame 10 times?

[copynpaste]

I have 5 LCD HDTVs in my house and all are Samsung.

[R-Audi]

One thing to keep in mind......

We are currently going thru the hassle of repairing a Samsung Plasma that is 4 years old... (Picture went to shit on the weekend.. all colors are messed up) and according to the Samsung tech, (Samsung repair hotline) he said only to expect 3-6 years out of them before they need repair. LCD's on the other hand.... last much much longer.
If a salesman would have said anything remotely close to the Plasma TVs only lasting 3-6 years.. there is no way we would have bought one.

[DENZILDON]

I have 2 Samsung lcd's and one samsung tube tv.

[scat19]

Originally posted by r3ccOs
I was set on buying a new 42'

I didn't know they made a 42 foot TV? Where did you get it? :rofl: :rofl: :banghead:

40' = 40 FEET

40" = 40 INCHES.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Can you control the light in the room? Projectors are better than any TV available right now.

If not, Plasma > LCD unless you're going to have light shining directly on the TV (Plasma's use glass).

Some of it is still personal preference, of course.

[Mibz]

Originally posted by dirtsniffer
is there even a technology out to support 120 hz? as far as i knew video games were in 60 fps and cable tv was in 24 fps..
IIRC the only reason to spring for a 1080p tv was for a select few video games in 1080 (most are 720) and blurays.. why bother with a 120 hz or a 240 hz? so i can look at the same frame 10 times? The TVs interpolate the frames in between. Older TVs, and some shitty newer TVs, will just insert a black frame, but good 120/240Hz TVs average the difference between two frames and draws that.

It -does- make the image "smoother" on paper but it definitely takes some getting used to. For the first few weeks of 120Hz it will look weird to you.


Originally posted by R-Audi
If a salesman would have said anything remotely close to the Plasma TVs only lasting 3-6 years.. there is no way we would have bought one. Nobody knows how long a panel is supposed to last when they're built or sold any more than a car salesman knows how long a car will go without shitting the bed. It depends on viewing habits and environment among other things. They're telling you that so you don't get upset that it "only" lasted you 4 years.

[sputnik]

Originally posted by Mibz
For the first few weeks of 120Hz it will look weird to you.

Watching action movies at 120/240Hz looks TERRIBLE.

It turns all movies into cheesy community theatre presentations. It makes the movie "too real" which in turn makes you feel like you are on set watching it being filmed instead of actually just watching the movie as it is intended to be seen. Its just really weird to watch.

I would personally just switch back to 60Hz for movies.

For sports 120/240Hz is AWESOME!

[bspot]

Originally posted by copynpaste
I have 5 LCD HDTVs in my house and all are Samsung.



Originally posted by DENZILDON
I have 2 Samsung lcd's and one samsung tube tv.


I have a CD player.

[Mibz]

Originally posted by sputnik
instead of actually just watching the movie as it is intended to be seen. And there's one of the rubs of 120/240Hz. Millions of dollars are poured into producing a movie at looks good at ~30fps. Making TV look realistic doesn't necessarily mean making it look better.

[ZorroAMG]

Panasonic Plasma FTW.

How do LED TVs really stack up?

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by ZorroAMG
Panasonic Plasma FTW.

How do LED TVs really stack up?

The main advantage to LED TV's is their localized dimming capabilities, allowing for better black levels closer to what you can get with a plasma and better than a regular LCD. It's still an LCD TV, it just uses LED's for backlighting. They use more power than a regular LCD too. Viewing angles are great too, but generally isn't an issue with any good LCD/Plasma.

[no_joke]

So that's why "Hitch" on Blu-ray looked so weird on the Future Shop display.


Originally posted by Mibz
And there's one of the rubs of 120/240Hz. Millions of dollars are poured into producing a movie at looks good at ~30fps. Making TV look realistic doesn't necessarily mean making it look better.

[Khyron]

Originally posted by sputnik


Watching action movies at 120/240Hz looks TERRIBLE.

It turns all movies into cheesy community theatre presentations. It makes the movie "too real" which in turn makes you feel like you are on set watching it being filmed instead of actually just watching the movie as it is intended to be seen. Its just really weird to watch.

I would personally just switch back to 60Hz for movies.

For sports 120/240Hz is AWESOME!

I don't understand this.

I thought the only point of 120 HZ is supposed to be that the Math works for both 30 fps and 24 fps go into 120 evenly(4x and 5x respectively) instead of dropping 2 frames every second on a 60 hz. You should still get the movies at exactly 24 fps, unless you've got it set to show 30 or 60 fps which would smooth it out too much and look wrong. Are you sure there's no option for movie mode or something you're missing?

[heavyD]

Originally posted by ZorroAMG

How do LED TVs really stack up?

It definately surpases LCD and Plasma. Black levels the same as plasma but you still get even a more vibrant image (LEDs have far superior color purity than any phosphor) which means you have more flexibility in picture adjustment wich is the key to getting the best picture for different sources such as movies, TV, Sports. Sporting events look absolutely stunning.

[HyperZell]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


The main advantage to LED TV's is their localized dimming capabilities, allowing for better black levels closer to what you can get with a plasma and better than a regular LCD. It's still an LCD TV, it just uses LED's for backlighting. They use more power than a regular LCD too. Viewing angles are great too, but generally isn't an issue with any good LCD/Plasma.

Except for the fact that "cheaper" LED TVs use edge dimming, which isn't nearly as good. Make sure you know which it is before committing to an LED TV.

[msommers]

Originally posted by Khyron


I don't understand this.

I thought the only point of 120 HZ is supposed to be that the Math works for both 30 fps and 24 fps go into 120 evenly(4x and 5x respectively) instead of dropping 2 frames every second on a 60 hz. You should still get the movies at exactly 24 fps, unless you've got it set to show 30 or 60 fps which would smooth it out too much and look wrong. Are you sure there's no option for movie mode or something you're missing?

I was at a friend's place and was wondering why it looked exactly as Sputnik described, and didn't like it at all.

[clem24]

Originally posted by heavyD


It definately surpases LCD and Plasma. Black levels the same as plasma but you still get even a more vibrant image (LEDs have far superior color purity than any phosphor) which means you have more flexibility in picture adjustment wich is the key to getting the best picture for different sources such as movies, TV, Sports. Sporting events look absolutely stunning.

Don't be so quick. The blacks look quite rich on LED but from what I hear, they also suffer from black crush.

For pure PQ Plasma is still the way to go unless they revive HD CRTs LOL.

I am also glad OP realizes how much marketing fluff manufacturers push onto consumers. 1080p (at least up to about 50") and 120hz are the equivalent of cameras and megapixels. Also that subfield drive crap for plasma is also pointless marketing shit (even more so than 120hz cause all they are describing is how plasma work), so I don't see why you would mention it in your post after dissing 120hz LCD.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by clem24


Don't be so quick. The blacks look quite rich on LED but from what I hear, they also suffer from black crush.

For pure PQ Plasma is still the way to go unless they revive HD CRTs LOL.


That's debateable. Have you seen any of the new Samsungs in person? They easily stand out over ther LCD and Plasma counterparts. Easily. While the blacks aren't CRT good they produce truer colors than even CRT. They will only get better over the next couple of years where Plasma isn't going to markedly improve.

Of note is that only the best Plasma TV's are superior to most quality LCD TV's. Some of the garden variety Plasmas aren't that great. Another important thing of note is that Plasmas will lose 30% of their brightness over the first five years of use so what looks bright and sharp in your room today won't in a few years.

[jonnycat]

When I picked up my 42" 120Hz LG LCD, I couldn't understand why all the camera motions looked so low budget and cheesy. It really pissed me off when I first had the tv. I compared the same shows on my Panasonic 52" LCD RP and figured out it had to be the refresh rate. But one day, not too sure how long after, it became imperceptible. Must have gotten used to it.

[scat19]

Originally posted by bspot

I have a CD player.

Damn son!!! :rofl:

[clem24]

Originally posted by heavyD


That's debateable. Have you seen any of the new Samsungs in person? They easily stand out over ther LCD and Plasma counterparts. Easily. While the blacks aren't CRT good they produce truer colors than even CRT. They will only get better over the next couple of years where Plasma isn't going to markedly improve.

I agree. They look phenomenal and the colors really "pop". But unfortunately I have not had time to really play with one. But again, from what I gather, the deep blacks come at the expense of black crush (reported by employees that sell these TVs) and from my limited time with seeing the sets, I believe them.

I think the stores set them up this way and Samsung's "sell TV" settings also do this, but a real world setup might not look like that (just like how every set out there has backlight and brightness turned up 100% to attract people, but that and sharpness is usually the first settings I set to near 0). I've also seen the XBR8s and they don't seem to have images that pop like the Samsungs do, so I suspect that they might be exaggerating some kind of setting. The other issue is that Plasmas just for some reason can process SD signals so much better than any LCD on the market (even a cheap < $1,000 50" LG blows away any XBR).

If I hadn't caught a great deal on a demo 52" Sony V4100 series, I would've definitely picked up a 55" Samsung LED from the US (they are much much cheaper than Canada).

[DannyO]

Does anybody know why all companies are moving to higher hertz like 120/240 etc to combat pulldown, instead of having native support for movies and have the ability to actually display 24hz instead? I have seen some TVs/Projectors with this, but seems like were going the other way.

[r3ccOs]

Originally posted by heavyD


It definately surpases LCD and Plasma. Black levels the same as plasma but you still get even a more vibrant image (LEDs have far superior color purity than any phosphor) which means you have more flexibility in picture adjustment wich is the key to getting the best picture for different sources such as movies, TV, Sports. Sporting events look absolutely stunning.

I personally don't think LCD's have the color nutrality that Plasma does... they are definately more vibrant, as the backlight brings that forward and its at a higher Kevlan level than plasma.

As to the 120hz/240hz... when they are on full blast, you'll notice alot of artifacting, evnen on a top quality 6000 series Samsung LED.

It also to me looks like it making a still image out of something that should blend with the rest of the picture.

Its like picking up an object (like a book), holding it in front of your face and then spining... the book is still while everything else moves, so its more realisic, but not the way film @ 24hz or NTSC 60hrz is intended to be viewed (at least not yet)

[spikerS]

i have a 52" Toshiba Regza 120hz LCD, and LOVE it. I compared it to alot of different TVs side by side, and have zero regrets.

and i found the 120hz thing to be huge. wait till hockey season and turn if off and back on, and you will be glad you have it.

[r3ccOs]

Originally posted by spikers
i have a 52&quot; Toshiba Regza 120hz LCD, and LOVE it. I compared it to alot of different TVs side by side, and have zero regrets.

and i found the 120hz thing to be huge. wait till hockey season and turn if off and back on, and you will be glad you have it.

Its not as noticiable with sports with a uniform color Ice/Grass field... but the artificating of the 120hz is hugely noticable in alot of movies

[szw]

I have an LED DLP, which some may think as old school but I love it. The only complaint is that vertical viewing angle kind of sucks. Sometimes when I stand up to play some wii games its difficult to see. This would be fixed if I stood a bit farther away but my screen is too big for the area its in as it is. The "colourwheel" and "silkscreen" problems are non existant.

[R-Audi]

Well my Samsung Plasma that needed repairs is gonna run me $415 for a new Y Main..... I suppose it could have been worse!

It will be designated as a second room TV.. so it should last a lot longer. My 46" Samsung 1080/120hz is my main TV... I absolutely love it!

[nagooro]

I am in the market for a tv, currently looking at a 52" samsung LCD from costco. Just realized it has 60hz refresh rate. Would this be a bad choice or can I get away with it? Will be for general tv/movies + xbox

tv link (http://www.costco.ca/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=10322672&whse=BCCA&Ne=4000000&eCat=BCCA|79|2341&N=4008767&Mo=22&No=3&Nr=P_CatalogName:BCCA&cat=3316&Ns=P_Price|0||P_SignDesc1&lang=en-CA&Sp=C&topnav=&SessionID=2bd76ba3-0463-4e0b-af3a-9ac9f553417b)