Whoa! 7D! Canon seems to finally have responded to Nikons recent releases!

[AccentAE86]

It seems impressive... mostly the new 19 point zone AF system that takes camera orientation into account. 8fps (I believe without forcing you to buy a grip) dynamic viewfinder displays, new customizable buttons, dual image processors, full weathersealing, 100% viewfinder with 1X magnification... wow it looks like they're SERIOUS about taking the cake back from Nikon. This is a serious D300s killer.

Makes me wonder what the new 1-series bodies will be like!

http://gizmodo.com/5349829/canon-7d-dslr-first-hands-on-18-megapixels-24fps-full-hd-video-for-1900

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=139&modelid=19356

[BerserkerCatSplat]

I really thought Canon had things figured out with the low MP counts in the S90 and G11, and then they cram 18MP onto an APS-C sensor. Go figure. Video mode looks nice, though.

Ready for some blasphemy? If I was new to the market in the $2000-body area, I'd take a long, hard look at that new Sony a850. 24MP, FF, for the same price range as the Canikon crop bodies. Also, 135STF.

Damnit, Sony, stop making me like you. I swore I wouldn't.

[mboldt]

BerserkerCatSplat after trying out the A850 you wouldn't want it, well for shooting anything at remotely high ISO, also it's only $200.00 less than a A900 in Canada.

I don't know why Canon seems to believe that they need more and more MP.

But good on them for adding 10 more autofocus points but still 32 less than Nikon and nearly doubling the number of metering segments the 5D MII has to offer and putting that into this camera (However the Nikon D300 still has nearly 16 times more segments lol 1005 vs 63)

Also isn't the 5D MII supposed to be "weather sealed" and I've only heard about those failing.

lol I wouldn't go as far as saying it's a D300s killer unless you are looking at megapixels and 1fps

I wonder what price point this will come in at as well.

[mboldt]

Also.. you think that Canon would want to be BETTER than the Nikon when it comes to AF, Metering, ETC. but instead all they do is jam in more MP and more video features..

:facepalm:

[Phenix]

my next camera:)

[quazimoto]

My contact at Canon has told me 1D Mark IV is supposed to be released in September as well. With the 1Ds Mark IV to follow in February.

From my understanding they aren't playing too much with the resolution, it's more so just the overall performance. 1D Mark IV will be in the 18mp range. 1Ds is rumored at either 29mp or 36mp.

The only thing I start to wonder about is how well some of the current lenses can cope. Nikon also never had the ball. Nikon and Canon have always been relatively close in the share of the DSLR market. I'm personally hoping they release the 1Ds Mark IV and the price tag is less than $8,000. I'm just hoping the canon/nikon rivalry is going to continue to make prices drop.

I also don't think Canon has ever tried to dominate the lower end DSLR market. Nikon has just about always had better lower end bodies than Canon. That being said the current D3x has equal image quality to the 1Ds Mark III. So when the 1Ds Mark IV is released what does Nikon do?

[Phenix]

ya 8 grand for a camera is crazy. i'm just not that rich and ratherput that money into a house or a nice sport bike. lol

[quazimoto]

8 grand is ok when its what you do for a living and then the camera pays for itself and is just a part of business. I just don't get why Canon is wasting time on a 7D. Its just stupid to me.

[psycoticclown]

Why all the MP... most people will never ever ever need that extra MP.

Pretty funny actually, I just purchased a D90 and I was telling my friend about it and he asked how many MP my camera had, I told him 12.9 and he asked me why I would spend over 2x what he payed for less MP. He than started bragging about the 14.7 MP he had on his Canon SD990 IS :facepalm:

[benyl]

Since it is APS-C, is this supposed to be the 60D?

[AccentAE86]

"Canon is wasting time on the 7D"... quazi you make some really oddball comments. Just because YOU want a 1Ds doesn't mean that a zillion others wouldn't find a 7D useful. I'd love to have one. I'm sure the 7D will be much more profitable for canon than any 1-series. Just like the Rebel series makes more for them than the XXD series. I suppose that also means Nikon totally wasted their time and resources on the D300.

The main point that amazes me though, is that it actually seems like canon is RESPONDING to the Nikon releases and is fighting back. There are a LOT of features on this camera that probably wouldn't have appeared if it weren't for the D3/D700/D300. And do you think Nikon is gonna sit back and let them take the cake? No, they'll come out with their own responses in due time.

All this means is that it's better cameras for us at good prices. It's good news all around.

[D'z Nutz]

Originally posted by quazimoto
My contact at Canon has told me 1D Mark IV is supposed to be released in September as well. With the 1Ds Mark IV to follow in February.

Is this the same source that told you the 1Ds is gonna have a medium format sensor?

[msommers]

Will be interesting to see the noise on this thing...G10 definitely was not so great.

[quazimoto]

No it wouldn't be the Mark IV with a larger sensor. They are talking Mark V and beyond. The Mark 1Ds Mark IV has been pegged between 29 to 36 Megapixels for some time. There are serious rumblings though about just how many pixels can be crammed onto a 35mm equiv sensor.

This is why its a waste to me. They have essentially dumped a whole lot of R&D money and their people resources into an entire new line of camera. Unless this is the new 60D but I highly doubt it. So now they release a 60D with similar stats or something? It's all really confusing.

Nikon won't be competing with the 1D IV series off the bat either. As it is right now the D3x and 1Ds have equal image quality. Nikon will be waiting for Sony to give them another sensor to use in order to compete with an improved 1Ds Mark IV. In my opinion Nikon still owns the lower end market, I just don't see that changing.

I'm just hoping this is the new 60D series though. Since well if you look at the 50D and the 7D what can they offer in a 60D camera that would actually work.

[lint]

Originally posted by msommers
Will be interesting to see the noise on this thing...G10 definitely was not so great.

Samples from the beta 7D in the middle of th page
http://robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-10042-10239

[Mitsu3000gt]

Still no AF from the 1 series (from what I can tell). And 18 MP? :facepalm:

Hopefully they got the weather sealing right, that is something that should have been around from the 20D.

Unless ALL you care about is MP, the 2 year old D300 still looks like the better bet (as it was when the 50D came out with more MP).

Definitely a step in the right direction though.

[KKY]

I was thinking the 7D would be a stripped down version of the 5D with full frame sensor and less features. Like the XS and XSi.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally posted by msommers
Will be interesting to see the noise on this thing...G10 definitely was not so great.

Rob Galbraith has done some initial testing and claims that it has the same noise characteristics as the 50D. So, 3 extra MP got rid of any noise performance benefits they would have gained from the new manufacturing processes they developed for this sensor.

AF apparently is either pretty good or terrible, depending on what mode you use.



Continuous focus using Spot AF, centre AF point, AI Servo and the EF 200mm f/2L IS, tracking a soccer player for a few minutes in fading light, the results showed promise but were ultimately inconclusive: through about 200 frames, the camera was able to hang onto focus properly for portions of several sequences, better than we've ever seen from the 50D, as well as deal with the AF point moving off the subject briefly. But it would also lose focus for several frames for no apparent reason, even when the AF point was right on the mark and the subject was moving at an easy pace.

Continuous focus using Zone AF, nine points in the centre, AI Servo and the EF 200mm f/2L IS, tracking a running dog in fading light, the results were terrible. Over about 80 frames the camera got almost nothing usably in focus. If this result is representative of Zone AF, then Zone AF will be the way wrong choice for fast-moving subjects. We had better luck tracking the same dog with Spot AF.



http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-10042-10239

[Melinda]

Wtf? Why would the 7D be a crop sensor? If it's following the same numbering/naming system as the 5D it would be logical that it would be a full frame. Why not keep the crop sensors with the XXD naming system and the full frames with the XD naming system? Makes no sense. Canon makes me scratch my head sometimes.

[benyl]

He also said the body is very similar to the 50D. Makes me think this is the 60D with a new name.

[msommers]

Originally posted by lint


Samples from the beta 7D in the middle of th page
http://robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-10042-10239



Originally posted by BerserkerCatSplat


Rob Galbraith has done some initial testing and claims that it has the same noise characteristics as the 50D. So, 3 extra MP got rid of any noise performance benefits they would have gained from the new manufacturing processes they developed for this sensor.

...

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-10042-10239

SMRT! Thanks for the link guys.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Canadian MSRP appears to be $2100 (Henry's pre-order). Way too high IMO.

Thats also dissapointing news about the AF accuracy....even if its decent in single point AF mode, try keeping that point on a subject moving unpredictably - not going to happen.

Also it still can't AF over f5.6

To me this just seems like the typical progresson of the XXD series targeting people who buy based on MP count. 18MP is going to be tough on budget glass I would think as well. It'll be interesting to see the tests, though.

Personally, I'd have liked to see them do something like a 12-14MP 1.3 crop APS-C with 1 series AF and amazing ISO performance to bring something new to the market.

[ZorroAMG]

Quazimoto, do you want to maybe answer your PMs?

Thaaaanks.

[sputnik]

Ugh. Canon (and Nikon for that matter) really needs to come up with a better numbering system for their models.

[89coupe]

Love this feature.

An electronic level in the camera detects both pitch and roll; with it, you can level the camera both left/right and up/down, using a display that appears in both the viewfinder (repurposing the AF point markings for this) and on the rear LCD

[AccentAE86]

Originally posted by Melinda
Wtf? Why would the 7D be a crop sensor? If it's following the same numbering/naming system as the 5D it would be logical that it would be a full frame. Why not keep the crop sensors with the XXD naming system and the full frames with the XD naming system? Makes no sense. Canon makes me scratch my head sometimes.

It actually is following the regular canon naming conventions. They are classing this below the 5D series, and the lower the class, the higher the number. The single digit cameras have always been targeted for a smaller audience who need high level features. More for pros in general. If they were to make a FF camera with a much higher set of features, it would likely be called the EOS-3D, which follows suit with the old EOS-3 of the film days. But if this 7D is intended as a replacement for the XXD series, then they may just skip the 3D naming and just give the 5D series the feature enhacements instead of introducing a new line.

As for Rob Galbraith's AF testing, it's still inconclusive. But honestly, you guys make it sound like it should be able to track an erratically moving object with perfect accuracy. I don't think any system in the world can do that... definitely not even my D700. It fails in continuous tracking in much of the same situations as a pro canon body would. Hyper dogs and kids in evening shade are about the worst thing to AF track.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by psycoticclown
Why all the MP... most people will never ever ever need that extra MP.

Pretty funny actually, I just purchased a D90 and I was telling my friend about it and he asked how many MP my camera had, I told him 12.9 and he asked me why I would spend over 2x what he payed for less MP. He than started bragging about the 14.7 MP he had on his Canon SD990 IS :facepalm:

Those are the same people who brag about taking 1080p video on their DSLR. Utterly pointless IMO.

You want video, get a camcorder.

[The_Rural_Juror]

Originally posted by Xtrema


Those are the same people who brag about taking 1080p video on their DSLR. Utterly pointless IMO.

You want video, get a camcorder.

Tell these guys that.

www.stillmotion.ca

[quazimoto]

I think people are still making too big of a deal over the tracking issues the 1D Mark III has and that is where all this inconclusive comes from. I think it did teach canon a good lesson though about releasing a camera before it was good and ready and I'd be shocked if we saw similar issues in future canon cameras since it would hurt them a lot.

Essentially they want this camera to compete against their own 5D Mark II and future 60D while trying to take sales away from Nikon?

[brian_tr]

^ I was recently at a wedding in Toronto where all the photography/filmwork was done by stillmotion

Grabbed a pic of one of the photographers in full gear...

http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af149/brian_tr/Toronto%2009/th_DSC02334.jpg (http://s1002.photobucket.com/albums/af149/brian_tr/Toronto%2009/?action=view&current=DSC02334.jpg)

[ZorroAMG]

Originally posted by The_Rural_Juror


Tell these guys that.

www.stillmotion.ca

A-friggen-men to that! I did lol at the maid of honour reading her speech off her cell though haha

Most consumer camcorders under 8000k all have fixed lenses....try getting anything like this for the price of a video DSLR and a few lenses.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally posted by AccentAE86


As for Rob Galbraith's AF testing, it's still inconclusive. But honestly, you guys make it sound like it should be able to track an erratically moving object with perfect accuracy.

And you make it sound like Galbraith hasn't been shooting fast-moving sports for eons. He's been doing that since before AF even existed, and if he describes a particular performance as "terrible," it probably isn't exactly stellar.

[AccentAE86]

Originally posted by BerserkerCatSplat


And you make it sound like Galbraith hasn't been shooting fast-moving sports for eons. He's been doing that since before AF even existed, and if he describes a particular performance as "terrible," it probably isn't exactly stellar.

He didn't make a clear final statement one way or another; so it is inconclusive. I wasn't discrediting RG:


We'll need to give the camera more of a continuous focus workout than this, however, to see if it will be right for peak action sports.

Think about it, he was shooting an erratically running dog in fading light on a pre-beta camera with a brand new zone-AF algorithm also in pre-beta. RG himself knew he had to do much more testing, experimenting, and get more experience with it before he could really say that the AF system truly sucked. So why should we translate that into a conclusion so early on that it sucks? I'm not saying it's excellent or that the AF is awesome, but I'm not saying it sucks either. That would be premature to give a statement of that nature.

[clem24]

This camera was such a surprise. I think they really tried hard to keep it under wraps. I LOL'ed when all the articles were saying how this one can finally control Canon flashes with it's built in one hahaha.

In any case, I don't understand the comment about why this camera doesn't make sense. It totally makes sense because Nikon occupies the only spot for (semi) pro-bodies in the $2k category.

My D200 is more than enough camera for me, but when Nikon decides to make a 1080p D3xx, then I will likely make the leap. And who's going to push them to do it? Canon! Woooo! Maybe they're saving this feature for the D400.

[sl888]

1D will be out next year along with the 60D.
I was really excited for this until I heard it was an APS-C. From early rumors it was suppose to be 1.3x crop sensor. But this isn't the new 60D. It's a step above but still below the 5D Mark II.
This will probably be my next camera (need to upgrade from the XTI) but I'm not liking the price tag. I think it should be $2000 but definitely not over. The 7D would be perfect for my sports shooting. If I could afford to pair it up with a 5D Mark II I think it would be a good combo

[msommers]

Originally posted by clem24
This camera was such a surprise. I think they really tried hard to keep it under wraps. I LOL'ed when all the articles were saying how this one can finally control Canon flashes with it's built in one hahaha.

In any case, I don't understand the comment about why this camera doesn't make sense. It totally makes sense because Nikon occupies the only spot for (semi) pro-bodies in the $2k category.

My D200 is more than enough camera for me, but when Nikon decides to make a 1080p D3xx, then I will likely make the leap. And who's going to push them to do it? Canon! Woooo! Maybe they're saving this feature for the D400.

And I can buy your D200 off you!:rofl:

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by sl888
1D will be out next year along with the 60D.
I was really excited for this until I heard it was an APS-C. From early rumors it was suppose to be 1.3x crop sensor. But this isn't the new 60D. It's a step above but still below the 5D Mark II.
This will probably be my next camera (need to upgrade from the XTI) but I'm not liking the price tag. I think it should be $2000 but definitely not over. The 7D would be perfect for my sports shooting. If I could afford to pair it up with a 5D Mark II I think it would be a good combo

How is this a step above the hypothetical 60D? Seems like a very small, logical progression (from a marketing standpoint) from the 50D to me. If they made a 60D it would be incredibly similar.

[89coupe]

Here is an ISO chart for all you pixel peepers. 50D vs 7D

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/5231/50dvs7d.jpg

[soupey]

mmmm so they turned the XD line into crop sensor with a popup flash....doesn't make much sense at all to me, wonder what will happen with the XXD series now, and...this would make this camera EF-S compatible too right?:nut:

on second thought, maybe they changed the model numbers to work against similar nikon models (D60 vs 60D)...

[quazimoto]

The 60D when released will need to be almost identical to the 7D. This is purely why I'm saying this camera is a complete waste of Canon's time and money. For the R&D time they put into the camera they could have made the 60D and 1D series that much better.

Press release for 1D and 60D is supposed to be late September to early October. 1Ds is expected in February. There is still talk about a Canon 3D Camera as well. I'm not sure if it's more rumor or not.

I do like some of the changes they've come up with though. My guess now is the 60D will have the exact same sensor with the same resolution. 60D will retain the autofocus from the 50D and not the new 7D autofocus system. 60D will be slower with built in wireless ETTL support. So essentially the 7D is like a 60D+ with a few features. I've never been a fan of Canons wireless ETTL anyways.

[benyl]

Do you have a source to say that there is in fact a 60D coming.

As far as I can tell, the 7D is the 60D.

Pop up flash.
Same relative size.
I think it even uses the same grip as the 50D.

[Mitsu3000gt]

I agree, the 7D is the 60D. If not, and the 60D is the 7D minus some features, it will be a huge dissapointment as the 7D is far from groundbreaking. The 7D is grossly overpriced IMO - I suspect it will drop in price rather quickly after those whose pants tighten with the talk of more megapixels snatch up first production run.

[clem24]

Originally posted by 89coupe
Here is an ISO chart for me. 50D vs 7D


Fixed.

[quazimoto]

That's the problem. Nobody knows for sure. They were rumoring a 7D and 60D at the same time. But with these specs I really can't see there being a 60D. Going on that they also released the 7D at least a month a head of when anybody really expected it. I know canon wasn't happy with the 50D sales so making a 7D in hopes it will generate more sales wouldn't be surprising.

Maybe I can now cross my fingers the 1D Mark IV still comes out in September. I wonder if Nikon will have an answer to the 1D Mark IV series though. I'm still trying to find concrete information on if Nikon actually designed the D3/D3x sensor or if sony did. I'm hoping it's all Nikon so they can pump out a new D4 or something in the next year or so to make these higher level cameras way more decently priced. I've already heard rumblings the 1Ds Mark IV will be in the $9,000+ range.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Wow, I just noticed TCS posted their prices for the 7D:

Body: $2093.93
Body + 18-135 3.5-5.6 IS lens: $2592.63
Body + 15-85 f3.5-5.6 IS lens: $2898.88

I think that pricing is absolutly ridiculous considering the competition:

Nikon D300 body: $1578 ($1877 with grip for 8 fps)
Nikon D300s body: $1967
Nikon D700 Body: $2896


My prediction for the 7D is for sales even worse than the 50D, and the price being lowered considerably as a result. I must say that I agree with quazimoto in that this camera was largely a waste of time. Especially with the reletively significant name change, they should have come out with something far more impressive IMO (Pro AF, better noise, 1.3x sensor and/or less MP, etc.).

I'll wait for production model tests, but I am not expecting any miracles.

[benyl]

haha, all you guys crying about the 1.6X factor.

If they went 1.3X, non of the current 50D user would/could move up to the 7D as none of their EF-S lenses would work.

[psycoticclown]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
Wow, I just noticed TCS posted their prices for the 7D:

Body: $2093.93
Body + 18-135 3.5-5.6 IS lens: $2592.63
Body + 15-85 f3.5-5.6 IS lens: $2898.88

I think that pricing is absolutly ridiculous considering the competition:

Nikon D300 body: $1578 ($1877 with grip for 8 fps)
Nikon D300s body: $1967
Nikon D700 Body: $2896


My prediction for the 7D is for sales even worse than the 50D, and the price being lowered considerably as a result. I must say that I agree with quazimoto in that this camera was largely a waste of time. Especially with the reletively significant name change, they should have come out with something far more impressive IMO (Pro AF, better noise, 1.3x sensor and/or less MP, etc.).

I'll wait for production model tests, but I am not expecting any miracles.

:eek:

[quazimoto]

I swear if the 1D Mark IV is anything short of spectacular I'll find myself using Nikon by the Spring of 2010. The price structure is the most confusing part to me. If you look at the 20D 30D 40D 50D series it seems like each seems to go up up up in price. Then the original 5D compared to the 5D Mark II is the complete opposite.

I've been hoping, or more like dreaming of some magical concept that Canon would get smart and actually try to compete with Nikon with their prices but I guess that is asking too much.

The other shocker of course, they announce less than stellar lenses. I know for fact a 24-70mm 2.8L IS II has been a topic for a while not to mention a new an improved 70-200mm. Blah just frustrating. They are getting closer and closer to losing my support.

[The_Rural_Juror]

Not the 60D.

0U0wGHb42_M

[AccentAE86]

Originally posted by quazimoto
I swear if the 1D Mark IV is anything short of spectacular I'll find myself using Nikon by the Spring of 2010. The price structure is the most confusing part to me. If you look at the 20D 30D 40D 50D series it seems like each seems to go up up up in price. Then the original 5D compared to the 5D Mark II is the complete opposite.

I've been hoping, or more like dreaming of some magical concept that Canon would get smart and actually try to compete with Nikon with their prices but I guess that is asking too much.

The other shocker of course, they announce less than stellar lenses. I know for fact a 24-70mm 2.8L IS II has been a topic for a while not to mention a new an improved 70-200mm. Blah just frustrating. They are getting closer and closer to losing my support.

You know, neither company is quite awesome; they both have their deficiencies. You say canon needs to smarten up with their prices to compete with Nikon... but many Nikon shooters I know bitch about how their lenses cost significantly more than the canon versions, and they also wish nikon would 'smarten up' and also offer a professional F/4 zoom category and add some more super telephoto options and a better selection of primes. And I wish that canon would put a decent AF system in a FF body other than the 1Ds. So go ahead and switch to nikon... you won't be bitching any less I'll bet.

And really, what is WRONG with the 70-200 series? It's pretty fricken kickass as it is. Does it NEED an update? I wouldn't be surprised if it's the first series to have the hybrid-IS system though, so an update could be sooner rather than later maybe.

[clem24]

Originally posted by AccentAE86
but many Nikon shooters I know bitch about how their lenses cost significantly more than the canon versions

Yup I think I was one of them!

In any case, 95% of people with Canon gear that keeps bitching about "Oh I am going to make the switch blah blah blah" ARE ALL TALK. In the end, a non-professional just cannot justify the cost of all new lenses and flashes and whatever else. They'll complain on forums like this and threaten to abandon their system for a different one, when in reality, it's just not feasible to make the jump.

Also, as for the pricing, I don't see what the issue is. $2,094 vs. $1,967 (7D vs. 300s body) = $127 premium for Canon. The $127 buys 1080p video, which is HUGE in my books. What the heck is the problem here?!? And for people already EF-S lenses, there's really only one choice isn't there..


Originally posted by msommers
And I can buy your D200 off you!:rofl:

Sure Matt! I'll take need a deposit TODAY thanks.

[msommers]

Originally posted by clem24
Sure Matt! I'll take need a deposit TODAY thanks.

No problem, I'm sure I'll see you at Zipang:rofl:

But seriously, whenever you do upgrade, I'll probably do the same since I'm still rocking my D70!

[quazimoto]

People with EF-s lenses should start getting wise and realizing a lot of the EF-s lenses are going to start reaching limitations the more they push the resolution in these cameras.

The price structure is really simple. The 20D 30D 40D 50D and now 7D series has gradually pushed the price point. You'd think this would be suicide in an era of economic uncertainty not to mention when your competition already has cameras are are just as good if not better.

The original 5D when it was released I think was in the $4,500 range. I bought my 5D Mark II for a whopping $2,699.

I'm beginning to realize it's getting to the point where Nikon is going to dominate the lower end market and Canon will dominate the higher end market. I just wish I could get some basic information as to if and when Nikon will be able to compete against the 1Ds Mark IV. I have yet to see a single rumor in this area.

I find without the competition these companies never like to lower their prices.

[C4S]

It is good ...

45 or 51 point AF ... not that big deal, but this new 7D, all 19 point AF ...are cross type!

I wouldn't put much comment untill I have tried it .. :)

Anyway, why always need to do NIKON vs CANON ?? both big company, both care about making money ... both good brand!

19MP is a gimmick .. however, that is what "BUYER" looking for .. not "USER" ... :(

I am more excited about the new 100L.

Seems like the gap for Canadian pricing vs US pricing is getting bigger and bigger agan ..

$1700 vs $2100 on 7D .. $2000 vs $2500 on A850 .. $2700 vs $3300 on 5D II .. $2500 vs $3100 on D700 ...

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by clem24
Also, as for the pricing, I don't see what the issue is. $2,094 vs. $1,967 (7D vs. 300s body) = $127 premium for Canon. The $127 buys 1080p video, which is HUGE in my books. What the heck is the problem here?!? And for people already EF-S lenses, there's really only one choice isn't there..


The D300s is extremely similar to the D300, they just added dual card clots, virtual horizon, 1 more fps, and HD video. Even I won't be upgrading and you all know how much I love having the latest & greatest haha. Because the D300s doesn't have 1080p video anyways, if 1080p video is important to you, the comparison is more like $515 difference (D300 to 7D), which is VERY significant. Not to mention the 2 year old D300 is (on paper) still better in every way than the 7D I can see other than sheer megapixels, which very few people are happy about. I'll wait for the tests, but I will be shocked if its even close. I think the reason we got a D300s rather than an all new D400 is because there still is no direct competition with the D300 - Nikon didn't really have anything to "one up".



Originally posted by quazimoto
I'm beginning to realize it's getting to the point where Nikon is going to dominate the lower end market and Canon will dominate the higher end market. I just wish I could get some basic information as to if and when Nikon will be able to compete against the 1Ds Mark IV. I have yet to see a single rumor in this area.

What is Nikon lacking in the high end market except a few AFS primes? I'm just curious. The D3x is better than or equal to the IDs III in every way, the 'pro' 2.8 zooms from 14-400mm are better than anything Canon is currently offering, the 200-600mm tele primes are newer and as good or better than Canon's offerings in that area, and the Nikon flash system in general is superor. The only thing I can think of is a few primes that could use AFS and possibly VR, but I can't see how Canon having those would allow them to "dominate" the high end market - if you can live with f2.8, Nikon's new zooms are as good as any prime anyways. I'm also not sure how you can take 2 cameras that don't even exist, and wish one company had something to compete with the other's non-existant camera? Anything could happen regarding the IDs IV / D4 at this point.

[AccentAE86]

Originally posted by C4S
It is good ...

45 or 51 point AF ... not that big deal, but this new 7D, all 19 point AF ...are cross type!

I wouldn't put much comment untill I have tried it .. :)


Yeah, that is the kicker. It has more cross type points and are wider spread in the viewfinder than the D3 or D300. That is one thing I really wish my D700 had, was cross points on the outer regions because the outer points are the ones I always use. The 1-series mark III outer points kick arse on the D700's.

[C4S]

:D

Having Canon and Nikon for 20 yrs now ...

I still won't say Nikon is better or Canon is better ... from F801 vs 630 ... F80 vs Elan .. EOS 1 vs F4/5 .. EOS 3 vs F100 etc .. they all have pros & cons

Depends on who has newer model/body/lens .. :)

I have been using D300 / 40D / 50D last 2 years, they are all great cameras, but D300 offers more FEATURES and SELECTION on af point ..

The new D300s is ~ $400 more then D300, is it $400 better? and D300 vs 40D, ~ $600 more, is it $600 better? hard to say, and then someone will compare a $2100 D300s to a used D300 for $1200 .. going on and on ..

I do like some lens from Nikon, in the same time, I do like some lens from Canon as well .. I am sure their marketing departments have done their jobs, they rather see people spend money to buy their products, then become their fans.

Just use what gears we have and enjoy! :)

[quazimoto]

The D3x in terms of image quality vs the 1Ds Mark III has been proven to be equal at just about every ISO level the two cameras were tested at. Considering the D3x was released well after the 1Ds this makes you wonder. Its kind of like the 7D vs the D300.

In my opinion D300 vs 7D is completely mute. The D300 is better. Not in every aspect imagineable. But when you consider cost and quality why the heck would somebody want the 7D over the D300.

I view the 7D as canon's attempt to simply regain the high level market by force. They roll out a simplified version of the new AF system in a lower level camera in my opinion as a market test. See if the AF system works in these cameras before sticking in the 1D series. I'm sure another AF disaster would hurt canon a lot.

Nikon will not have an answer to the 1Ds Mark IV for some time as there hasn't been any mention at all regarding what will come after the D3x. Adorama and B&H photo have already dropped the D3x price by $1,000 in the last month. It was $8,499 in August and I now see it sitting at $7,499. You think they know something we don't?

The expectation is the new 1D series will be announced in late september to early october. The one thing that isn't for sure is if Canon is going to to the 1D and 1Ds again. There was ideas floating around the two would be merged and a Canon 3D camera would be created which would essentially be the old 1D.

To me its all confusing.

[lint]

Originally posted by quazimoto
In my opinion D300 vs 7D is completely mute.

To me its all confusing.

These cameras, they... cannot speak!

[benyl]

Originally posted by lint


These cameras, they... cannot speak! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I suppose it is better than a moo point. I have seen that before.

[The_Rural_Juror]

HZp9WMy4ihg

[quazimoto]

So people at vistek and the camera store are saying pre-sales of the 7D are just going nuts. I looked at him kind of puzzled and was like, so people want to buy a camera they can't even try out and hasn't even been in the market yet which also isn't as good as its direct competition? I'm confused :banghead:

Coincidentally I decide to pick up a Nikon D3x for the very first time in my life. My vendor is now sending me a D3x to try out for the next two weeks. Me thinks I like this D3x over my 1Ds.

[C4S]

Originally posted by quazimoto

. Me thinks I like this D3x over my 1Ds.


I hope this will be wrong .. LOL

Don't get me wrong, both good camera .. I am jealous Nikon has the 14-24 ... and $2000 less on their 200mm ...

[quazimoto]

I didn't say I'm switching just yet. I've told my Canon rep though that if the 1Ds Mark IV isn't stellar and leaps and bounds above the D3x then I will be making the switch. Being able to play around with the D3x though was a very eye popping experience. It felt like I was picking up a camera for the first time again and gave me butterflies lol.

I can honestly say I'm on the fence right now but I'm really looking forward to trying the D3x out in a working environment. The initial test shots though were quite remarkable. I was totally thrown off by the fact the nikon lens I was using though zooms in/out in reverse.

[DJ Lazy]

I feel kind of out-dated with my 40D... :rofl: but that's because Canon (or Nikon) hasn't really come out with anything that prompts me to sell off my 40D. It does a good job for what I use it for, if anything I need to update my lens collection before my body...

I suppose the extra 10 AF points would be nice, but the hit I would take on my 40D to upgrade just doesn't seem worth it.. nor have I been shooting enough to justify another $2000 body.

[clem24]

Originally posted by quazimoto
So people at vistek and the camera store are saying pre-sales of the 7D are just going nuts. I looked at him kind of puzzled and was like, so people want to buy a camera they can't even try out and hasn't even been in the market yet which also isn't as good as its direct competition? I'm confused :banghead:

Why are you confused? Because your opinion of why the 7D is such a stupid idea might actually possibly be wrong? :facepalm:

[soupey]

well, if its a new line of canon cameras. consider the xxd line dead.

[89coupe]

This guys seems to love it.

http://jeffascough.typepad.com/jeff_ascough_blog/2009/09/visa-pour-limage-2009.html

I like this quote.


If you blindfolded me, and put a 5DMKII in one hand and 7D in the other - I would have said that the 7D was the more expensive camera. Full marks to Canon, they have a fabulous camera in the 7D.

[C4S]

Originally posted by 89coupe
This guys seems to love it.

[url]If you blindfolded me, and put a 5DMKII in one hand and 7D in the other - I would have said that the 7D was the more expensive camera. Full marks to Canon, they have a fabulous camera in the 7D.



:dunno: who will take pic blindfold ??