Owning an 04 Porsche Cayenne Turbo?

[topher91]

So, I'm interested in purchasing an older 04 Cayenne Turbo.

Does anyone have experience in owning one of these? What are the maintenance costs? (oil change etc.)

How Reliable (or unreliable) are they?

What are common issues to look for or ask about?

Driving impressions?

I've taken it for a rip and I'm loving the ride and interior. The one I'm looking at is FULLY loaded with every imaginable gadget installed plus its very LOW kms, and in very good shape, in and out, considering its age.

I'm assuming it is a Canadian car as the gauges do read in KM's and does not look like a brand new gauge cluster.

Probably not the greatest car to buy if I'm looking for something "reliable" but then again, I do own BMW's!!!! lol But with about 450hp/450ft/lbs it sure to make anyone want one too!!! :thumbsup:


Thanks for the input!

[gretz]

My old man has one in Ontario - he keeps it so clean....fukn beautiful vehicle. The suede (sp?) headliners are soooooo nice, no road noises when driving as well.

The different air suspension settings are very noticeable and the sport suspension with the lowest ride height setting tracks it like its on rails.

The chrome/brushed exterior accents were recalled - make sure its not all pitted.

Great in the winter as well. Make sure there is no coolant leaks, as this was a problem in the some of the other 04s.

nice units - do recommend:thumbsup:

[Redlyne_mr2]

Like any older Porsche you need to keep a bit of a bankroll available to fix the incidentals. Parts are very expensive as is labor. Because it's a turbo a brake job will cost you a fortune as well as normal maintenance. They seem to be plagued with electrical problems also. It's a great vehicle if you can get it for a good price and don't mind the repairs.

[redevil]

haha your nuts if you get one...way too expensive to maintain.
Oil changes alone are 10 times more expensive!

[bashir26]

Very expensive to maintain, but an excellent car none the less. At 40-50K its a good price.

[topher91]

Originally posted by gretz
My old man has one in Ontario - he keeps it so clean....fukn beautiful vehicle. The suede (sp?) headliners are soooooo nice, no road noises when driving as well.

The different air suspension settings are very noticeable and the sport suspension with the lowest ride height setting tracks it like its on rails.

The chrome/brushed exterior accents were recalled - make sure its not all pitted.

Great in the winter as well. Make sure there is no coolant leaks, as this was a problem in the some of the other 04s.

nice units - do recommend:thumbsup:

Ya the suede headliner was sick! Dark Tan leather with the dark grey (gunmetalish) exterior is the combo I'm looking at.



Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
Like any older Porsche you need to keep a bit of a bankroll available to fix the incidentals. Parts are very expensive as is labor. Because it's a turbo a brake job will cost you a fortune as well as normal maintenance. They seem to be plagued with electrical problems also. It's a great vehicle if you can get it for a good price and don't mind the repairs.

Ya read all that online already. If all that has been resolved in the maintenance history, I'd feel pretty comfortable.


Originally posted by bashir26
Very expensive to maintain, but an excellent car none the less. At 40-50K its a good price.

Ya if it works out, I'm hoping to negotiate to a low 40's range. GEEZ these things were 125k new!!!! OMG


Originally posted by redevil
haha your nuts if you get one...way too expensive to maintain.
Oil changes alone are 10 times more expensive!

Proof? lol I know they are more but this thing is BALLIN
:bigpimp: You have to see it bro... seriously! you have to see it and DRIVE IT :drool:

[Sugarphreak]

Between the maintenance costs and the gas mileage due to its heavy weight; other than having a close look at one I pretty much scratched it off my list early on.

That translates into 12mpg around the city... of premium fuel!

Maybe it is just me, but even after so many years to get used to it, the styling still feels bland & goofy.

They just don't stand out against the crowd anymore; if you look at an X5, Q7 or a new ML they have big bold styling. The Cayenne lacks that powerful look that expensive SUV's should have IMO.

Just playing devils advocate here, they are still very nice SUV's all around.

[E36M3]

I have an 06 Turbo S, so it is probably pretty similar. They are very reliable cars, there is a recall on the 06 for ignition coils, so check into that for the 04.. other than that, the biggest issue is the design of the front headlight (with the turning system) which seems to break every 3 months. If it isn't under warranty, I'd just leave it broken and maybe pull the fuse that is bitching.. it is also possible that the headlight isn't the same on the 04. If you can buy an extended warranty from the Porsche dealer, it might not be a bad thing to consider.

The only other issue I've had with the car is the TPMS system.. you will have to replace the sensors every few years, but typically only one at a time.

Great car, very fast for an SUV and quite a good ride. The handling isn't terrible for a 5500 lb car and the brakes are pretty decent. Reminds me in a lot of ways of a Bentley Flying Spur, but less expensive to own and maintain and lower key. I'd get a lowering module for it as I found I always drove in the lowest setting anyway and you don't often need the clearance. Just make sure to get a wheel alignment.

Oil changes, etc. can be done very inexpensively if it is out of warranty and you use an independent shop. The Porsche dealer in Calgary has a terrible service department and I wouldn't use them unless you have to. They are expensive and not very friendly.

The nav system is terrible. There is no bluetooth available, so you have to hack in a Denison or similar system if you want that to work.. it also doesn't have an aux input or any easy way to play an iPod, so you might want to consider a Denison hack that does bluetooth + ipod control.

[Diocletian]

THey are very unreliable and over all extremely expensive to maintain. Furthermore they aren't fit for offroad duty and aren't even safe in the winter without a decent set of winter tires. A very pointless vehicle all in all. I wouldn't wish one on my worst enemy.

[E36M3]

Good opinion.. is it supported by any facts? I know personally that all of these things are false save the winter tires part.. but that is true of any vehicle. If you put suitable tires on this car, its great off road (check out Youtube and watch some reviews if you can manage that) and in my experience Porsche products are very solid.. at least as good as any of their competition anyway, and in most cases much better reliability wise.[

QUOTE]Originally posted by Diocletian
THey are very unreliable and over all extremely expensive to maintain. Furthermore they aren't fit for offroad duty and aren't even safe in the winter without a decent set of winter tires. A very pointless vehicle all in all. I wouldn't wish one on my worst enemy. [/QUOTE]

[Hakkola]

Originally posted by Diocletian
Furthermore they aren't fit for offroad duty and aren't even safe in the winter without a decent set of winter tires.

I hope you aren't driving ANYTHING in snow without a decent set of winter tires. :facepalm:

[ZorroAMG]

Originally posted by E36M3
Good opinion.. is it supported by any facts?

Fact is, Mobil 1 is hard to find in a pinch and costs lots at the dealer hey?

:rofl: :rofl:

[FiveFreshFish]

How about a VW Touareg V10 TDI?

[bwling]

Originally posted by E36M3
I have an 06 Turbo S, so it is probably pretty similar. They are very reliable cars, there is a recall on the 06 for ignition coils, so check into that for the 04.. other than that, the biggest issue is the design of the front headlight (with the turning system) which seems to break every 3 months. If it isn't under warranty, I'd just leave it broken and maybe pull the fuse that is bitching.. it is also possible that the headlight isn't the same on the 04. If you can buy an extended warranty from the Porsche dealer, it might not be a bad thing to consider.

The only other issue I've had with the car is the TPMS system.. you will have to replace the sensors every few years, but typically only one at a time.

Great car, very fast for an SUV and quite a good ride. The handling isn't terrible for a 5500 lb car and the brakes are pretty decent. Reminds me in a lot of ways of a Bentley Flying Spur, but less expensive to own and maintain and lower key. I'd get a lowering module for it as I found I always drove in the lowest setting anyway and you don't often need the clearance. Just make sure to get a wheel alignment.

Oil changes, etc. can be done very inexpensively if it is out of warranty and you use an independent shop. The Porsche dealer in Calgary has a terrible service department and I wouldn't use them unless you have to. They are expensive and not very friendly.

The nav system is terrible. There is no bluetooth available, so you have to hack in a Denison or similar system if you want that to work.. it also doesn't have an aux input or any easy way to play an iPod, so you might want to consider a Denison hack that does bluetooth + ipod control.

Do you have a recommendation for an independent shop? Mine is out of warranty and needs servicing soon.

[alloroc]

Nice vehicle.

Just carry a fire extinguisher.

Google 'Porsche on fire' and you'll see what I mean.

[T78Supra1]

My brother owned one for 3 years, great car at first but once you get used to the
speed and handling then all you will see is crazy maintenance.

I drive hummer H2 for work and only get 11-12 mpg on a good day.
His Porsche got about 12mpg the difference was I filled Regular he had to fill premium. So filling up a porsche is more then a hummer. Just something to think about.

Also the insurance is pretty high on these trucks as well.

Just my 2 cents :)

[Pahnda]

My friend's car is an 04 Cayenne Turbo and I can't help but feel totally unimpressed each time I'm in it. I would seriously rather get the Touareg simply because it feels to be the same 'quality' yet the exterior of the Touareg is actually alright, unlike the Cayenne's bug eyed front and hideous fat ass with bland sides.

[cocoabrova]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
Like any older Porsche you need to keep a bit of a bankroll available to fix the incidentals. Parts are very expensive as is labor. Because it's a turbo a brake job will cost you a fortune as well as normal maintenance. They seem to be plagued with electrical problems also. It's a great vehicle if you can get it for a good price and don't mind the repairs.

Just to add to Ryan's info, the charging/electrical system on Cayennes/Touaregs/Q7s run @ 14 or so volts. As most ppl know, most vehicles run @12 or so volts. Because of this, owners are changing out there batteries every couple yrs or so if not sooner. Oh and the battery is located under the drivers front seat, so its about 2-3 hrs R & R time, plus the cost of the battery itself which is about $250ish from the dealer, 4-whl brake job is around $1500-$1600 (parts only), HID bulbs are about $300 /bulb (not your typical bulb, it's the bulb and igniter all in one), I'll stop there for now....

[ZorroAMG]

Originally posted by alloroc
Nice vehicle.

Just carry a fire extinguisher.

Google 'Porsche on fire' and you'll see what I mean.

:facepalm:

[C4S]

They are nice, but very expensive to fix/maintain ( that is why, lots of cheap one for sale, as people can't afford to pay for service)

Like any 450HP European car .. everything is expensive, be prepare.

In general, Cayenne S is a better buy, brake, tune up, fixing, servicing etc, much more affordable.

Try to buy one with Porsche CPO warranty, and local canadian car.

Avoid high mileage grey import without warranty.

:)

[alloroc]

Originally posted by ZorroAMG


:facepalm:

Did you google it?
I have been underneath a few Porches in my day and I can honestly say that Porsche doesn't pay close attention to where they run fuel or wiring on a lot of thier vehicles.

All i'm saying is carry a fire extinquisher - just in case

Oh goodness looky here ... recalls.

Manufacturer PORSCHE CARS NORTH AMERICA, INC.
Recall Date: FEB 15, 2008
Potential Number Of Units Affected: 5573

Description FUEL SYSTEM, GASOLINE:DELIVERY:HOSES, LINES/PIPING, AND FITTINGS
Summary PORSCHE IS RECALLING 5,573 MY 2008 CAYENNE V6 VEHICLES. A FUEL LINE IN THE PLENUM PANEL AREA MAY CONTACT THE REAR ENGINE COMPARTMENT COVER. RELATIVE MOVEMENTS OF THE ENGINE WHILE DRIVING MAY CAUSE KNOCKING NOISES AND CHAFING ON THE FUEL LINE. A FUEL LEAK MAY DEVELOP.
Consequence FUEL LEAKAGE IN THE PRESENCE OF AN IGNITION SOURCE COULD RESULT IN A FIRE.


More for the 2004 model year.

2004 Porsche Cayenne Turbo
Component
Electrical System:Wiring:Front Underhood

Consequence of Defect
on certain sport utility vehicles, the main wiring harness was incorrectly routed. damage to the main wiring harness can lead to the failure of various electrical systems.

Corrective Action
in extreme cases, to a cable fire beneath the instrument panel in the passenger compartment.

Recall Notes
dealers will re-route the wiring harness. owner notification schedule began on march 29, 2004. owners should contact porsche at 1-800-545-8039.

2003 Porsche Cayenne Turbo
Component
Fuel System, Gasoline:Storage:Tank Assembly:Filler Pipe And Cap

Consequence of Defect
on certain sport utility vehicles, if the ground connection between the spiral ring of the tank filler neck and the connecting pipe to the fuel tank is inadequate, the flow of fuel during refueling can create an electrostatic charge, which could discharge and spark. this spark could ignite fuel vapors in the area outside the tank filler neck that could lead to a muffled detonation.

Corrective Action
due to such a startling event, the individual refueling the vehicle could remove the fuel nozzle at precisely the moment of the detonation without first stopping the fueling process. in such a circumstance, fuel escaping outside of the fuel tank may ignite, resulting in a fire.

Recall Notes
dealers will inspect the ground connection and, if necessary, corrected. owner notification began on march 29, 2004. owners should contact porsche at 1-800-545-8039.
2003 Porsche Cayenne Turbo
Component
Electrical System:Wiring:Front Underhood

Consequence of Defect
on certain sport utility vehicles, the main wiring harness was incorrectly routed. damage to the main wiring harness can lead to the failure of various electrical systems.

Corrective Action
in extreme cases, to a cable fire beneath the instrument panel in the passenger compartment.

Recall Notes
dealers will re-route the wiring harness. owner notification schedule began on march 29, 2004. owners should contact porsche at 1-800-545-8039.

[ZorroAMG]

Ok? So there are recalls. Great. Get them done.

To say the cars are all catching fire like you implied is rather ludicrous.

Our 98 Beetle promo car caught fire too back in 98, does that mean that all beetles catch fire all the time?

[alloroc]

Originally posted by ZorroAMG
Ok? So there are recalls. Great. Get them done.

To say the cars are all catching fire like you implied is rather ludicrous.

Our 98 Beetle promo car caught fire too back in 98, does that mean that all beetles catch fire all the time?

The old beetles with the gas heaters did.

[roopi]

Originally posted by alloroc
Nice vehicle.

Just carry a fire extinguisher.

Google 'Porsche on fire' and you'll see what I mean.

Google 'Idiot on fire' and you'll see that you should also be carrying a fire extinguisher.

[topher91]

Actually, I'm pretty sure I read the vehicle is equipped with one!! Lol

[Diocletian]

Originally posted by E36M3
Good opinion.. is it supported by any facts? I know personally that all of these things are false save the winter tires part.. but that is true of any vehicle.

Yes, it is supported by facts. Talk to anyone who has worked with them. No most SUV's come with suitable wheels and tires for at least mild winter driving. This vehicle comes with the running gear of a sports car - as it's an SUV, this makes it completely ridiculous.

If you put suitable tires on this car, its great off road (check out Youtube and watch some reviews if you can manage that) and in my experience Porsche products are very solid..

As a whole porsche products are only average reliablity at best. Unfortunately the cost of routine maintenance and repairs makes them shockingly expensive. It's one thing if you're keeping the car as your summer sunday toy but quite another if you intend to daily drive it. This vehicle is no more solid than the pos VW tourag that it's based on.


at least as good as any of their competition anyway, and in most cases much better reliability wise.[

LOL perhaps if the competition you are comparing it to is Range Rovers lol

QUOTE]Originally posted by Diocletian
THey are very unreliable and over all extremely expensive to maintain. Furthermore they aren't fit for offroad duty and aren't even safe in the winter without a decent set of winter tires. A very pointless vehicle all in all. I wouldn't wish one on my worst enemy. [/QUOTE]

Yes, it is supported by facts. Talk to anyone who has worked with them. No most SUV's come with suitable wheels and tires for at least mild winter driving. This vehicle comes with the running gear of a sports car - as it's an SUV, this makes it completely ridiculous.

[Diocletian]

Originally posted by E36M3
[B]Good opinion.. is it supported by any facts? I know personally that all of these things are false save the winter tires part.. but that is true of any vehicle. If you put suitable tires on this car, its great off road (check out Youtube and watch some reviews if you can manage that) and in my experience Porsche products are very solid.. at least as good as any of their competition anyway, and in most cases much better reliability wise.[


[QUOTE]From Consumer Reports...

Predicted Reliability for 2006 Models

Porsche placed dead last in the rankings, at 36th overall, down from 26th last year based solely on the problematic Cayenne SUV.



you're looking for performance in an SUV, the Porsche Cayenne is for you. Specifically, go for the S and Turbo variants, with their 385 and 500 horses, respectively. Otherwise, the Cayenne isn't much to write home about. The base model's performance isn't way ahead of the pack, and the first generation may just be the most unreliable SUV we've come across. So unless performance is your top priority, do yourself a favor and go with a Lexus. The neighbors will be just as jealous and you'll feel a lot more secure about your purchase.

http://www.buyingadvice.com/porsche-cayenne-2008-review.html


http://forums.finalgear.com/general-automotive/14-most-unreliable-cars-by-forbes-5646/
For model-year 2004, Porsche's Cayenne SUV had below-average reliability ratings for its electrical system, brakes, power equipment and body hardware. Nonetheless, the Cayenne is still luxurious and incredibly powerful.


I understand that it might be hard to accept that you just pissed 50+ grand away on a vehicle that's so poorly built that it would make the chinese automakers blush.

[homelessman]

Listen to E36M3 - not these other rookies.

[Diocletian]

Originally posted by homelessman
Listen to E36M3 - not these other rookies.

I'm a rookie now?

[ZorroAMG]

Originally posted by Diocletian




http://www.buyingadvice.com/porsche-cayenne-2008-review.html


http://forums.finalgear.com/general-automotive/14-most-unreliable-cars-by-forbes-5646/

I understand that it might be hard to accept that you just pissed 50+ grand away on a vehicle that's so poorly built that it would make the chinese automakers blush.

You are SO misinformed. About Porsche and E36M3.

[Diocletian]

Originally posted by ZorroAMG


You are SO misinformed. About Porsche and E36M3.

Oh? I'm dying to hear how?

[JAYMEZ]

:facepalm:

[scat19]

Wow. E36M3 has first hand experience with the car, and I'd listen to him to be honest. He has some very nice vehicles and has been around for a long time.

That porsche SUV is such a nice truck, I'm sure you'll enjoy it beside costs of ownership!

Second, e36m3 - The facelift happened in 07, so the headlights are the same.

[Diocletian]

Originally posted by scat19
Wow. E36M3 has first hand experience with the car, and I'd listen to him to be honest. He has some very nice vehicles and has been around for a long time.

That porsche SUV is such a nice truck, I'm sure you'll enjoy it beside costs of ownership!

Second, e36m3 - The facelift happened in 07, so the headlights are the same.

In truth, personal experience with reliability means very little. To get an idea about reliability you need to look at a broad number of the vehicles in question. Even as a mechanic one has to be careful about drawing too many conclusions.

Anyway in regard to the porsche Cayenne, the evidence is clear - this is NOT a reliable vehicle by any stretch of the imagination. If you must have one, I'd suggest getting rid of it long before the warranty runs out.

There are many better choices out there.

[E36M3]

What is comparable to the 04 Porsche Turbo that is more reliable? I'm confused. The links you provided did not cite any data at all. The only suggestion is to go with a Lexus instead, which seems moronic as it is not comparable.


Originally posted by Diocletian


In truth, personal experience with reliability means very little. To get an idea about reliability you need to look at a broad number of the vehicles in question. Even as a mechanic one has to be careful about drawing too many conclusions.

Anyway in regard to the porsche Cayenne, the evidence is clear - this is NOT a reliable vehicle by any stretch of the imagination. If you must have one, I'd suggest getting rid of it long before the warranty runs out.

There are many better choices out there.

[Diocletian]

Originally posted by E36M3
What is comparable to the 04 Porsche Turbo that is more reliable? I'm confused. The links you provided did not cite any data at all. The only suggestion is to go with a Lexus instead, which seems moronic as it is not comparable.



My links referred to quality studies such as consumers reports. If you want to look at the raw data, buy a online membership and go look for yourself.

In regard to what's comparable and more reliable - you answered your own question. The Lexus LX or the toyota landcruiser would be a premium choice of much higher quality - as an added bonus they actually are built to go off road too. Other choices would be the X5 and the M class Mercedes benz - although here you start running into poorer reliability again... although granted not quite as bad as the Cayenne.

[E36M3]

Look, clearly you are not listening to what I am saying so I am finished. They are not in the same class so it is hard to compare them. Having great road tires on a road car is not a valid criticism in my opinion. An ultra high performance vehicle of any kind is going to have a different reliability profile than a consumer appliance like a Toyota.

If you want to go off road with a car, put on suitable equipment. The Cayenne is a formidable off road machine.

If you want to drive in winter, put on snow tires. I can't think of a better winter vehicle with the luggage capacity and passenger space that the Cayenne has, except maybe the Bentley Flying Spur.

If you want to compare apples to oranges, then again you are a moron.

Stop being a troll and move on. If you post links to offer evidence and there is no evidence, telling me to buy an account to find it just proves your idiocy.


Originally posted by Diocletian


My links referred to quality studies such as consumers reports. If you want to look at the raw data, buy a online membership and go look for yourself.

In regard to what's comparable and more reliable - you answered your own question. The Lexus LX or the toyota landcruiser would be a premium choice of much higher quality - as an added bonus they actually are built to go off road too. Other choices would be the X5 and the M class Mercedes benz - although here you start running into poorer reliability again... although granted not quite as bad as the Cayenne.

[alloroc]

Originally posted by E36M3
What is comparable to the 04 Porsche Turbo that is more reliable? I'm confused. The links you provided did not cite any data at all. The only suggestion is to go with a Lexus instead, which seems moronic as it is not comparable.



This is true there is little out there that matches the Turbo model, like I said earlier it is a nice vehicle.

1/4 mile in under 14s and a 0-60 time of 5.8s

I am not sure how good they are in the winter though. One did try to take me at at set of lights last winter. I didn't even know he was trying to beat me until he pulled up beside me making 'rude' gestures and then floored it past me once he hit some dry pavement. It was really icy at the lights but I just took off like I always do. Maybe he didn't have winters? but I highly doubt anyone buys one for 'winter' performance anyway.

[Diocletian]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by E36M3
*****[B]Look, clearly you are not listening to what I am saying so I am finished. They are not in the same class so it is hard to compare them. Having great road tires on a road car is not a valid criticism in my opinion. An ultra high performance vehicle of any kind is going to have a different reliability profile than a consumer appliance like a Toyota. *****

What class is the cayanne? It's basically the answer to the question that no one asked. I think you're definitely pushing it to say that it's a ultra higher performance vehicle lol. It's an ultra yuppy vehicle, however.

****If you want to go off road with a car, put on suitable equipment. The Cayenne is a formidable off road machine.**

LOL formidable off road machine? Are you kidding me? This vehicle is as useless offroad as it is onroad.

**If you want to drive in winter, put on snow tires. I can't think of a better winter vehicle with the luggage capacity and passenger space that the Cayenne has, except maybe the Bentley Flying Spur.****


You can't think of a better winter vehicle? You're comparing your cayenne to a Bently??? Is this a joke?


***If you want to compare apples to oranges, then again you are a moron.****

Once again - the cayenne is the answer to a question that no one asked. For this reason, it's not surprising that it's hard to think of a direct competitor for it. The closest you will get are the other "premium SUV's" like Range Rover, BMW X series, THe mercedes M series and the lexus LX line

****Stop being a troll and move on. If you post links to offer evidence and there is no evidence, telling me to buy an account to find it just proves your idiocy.***


I'm not being a troll at all. The thread is about buying a cayenne and I'm stating facts. It's not my fault if they offend you. I've posted three links from reputable sources that support what I'm saying and you have posted how many? Anyway I wouldn't bother trying to find any if I were you as finding any source which suggests a cayenne is reliable is going to be a losing battle.

[topher91]

Well, we have mighty fine arguments from all. Thank you.

Any vehicle with recalls doesn't mean its terrible. As long as all these issues were taken care of, then I'd be comfortable with it.

But it looks like the main deterrent for me at this time is maintenance costs.

Not that they are unreliable, but just like regular maintenance like oil changes, brake services etc... cost much much more then I'd like them to lol

Thank you all for opinions from all sides.

:drama: :thumbsup: :)

[cam_wmh]

Originally posted by T78Supra1
My brother owned one for 3 years, great car at first but once you get used to the
speed and handling then all you will see is crazy maintenance.

I drive hummer H2 for work and only get 11-12 mpg on a good day.
His Porsche got about 12mpg the difference was I filled Regular he had to fill premium. So filling up a porsche is more then a hummer. Just something to think about.

LOL @ an H2 vs Cayenne comparison!

[ZorroAMG]

Originally posted by Diocletian
Blah blah blah

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Redlyne_mr2]

Originally posted by topher91
Well, we have mighty fine arguments from all. Thank you.

Any vehicle with recalls doesn't mean its terrible. As long as all these issues were taken care of, then I'd be comfortable with it.

But it looks like the main deterrent for me at this time is maintenance costs.

Not that they are unreliable, but just like regular maintenance like oil changes, brake services etc... cost much much more then I'd like them to lol

Thank you all for opinions from all sides.

:drama: :thumbsup: :)
Have you thought about a G wagon? Not as "sporty" as the Cayenne but has much lower maintenance costs and is a brilliant truck.

[E36M3]

I've had both, and the maintenance costs are around the same. Its a piece of shit to drive compared to the Cayenne, but it is a great vehicle overall.


Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2

Have you thought about a G wagon? Not as "sporty" as the Cayenne but has much lower maintenance costs and is a brilliant truck.

[topher91]

Well, we are looking to spend less then 50k. So we have been looking at a few vehicles. The porsche came up cuz is was in the price range.

We originally were looking at the new GLK, EX35, and X3.

The GLK still tops our list but we haven't yet been to testdrive the EX. But from what I'm reading the EX doesn't compare!? We'll see.

[atgilchrist]

If you're looking at premium compact SUV's, check out the Audi Q5.

[topher91]

We did. Didn't like it at all!

[atgilchrist]

Any specific reason? I haven't looked at them closely, but we were thinking of replacing our car next year, similar budget to what you're looking at.

Just out of curiousity, what didn't you like about it?

[Redlyne_mr2]

The EX is well equipped but very very small and isn't very good on fuel.. The X3's are a waste of money IMO. They aren't even made by BMW and have had some serious quality issues. I like the look of the GLK's the interiors are just a bit cheap looking but nice little trucks regardless.

[topher91]

I didn't like the actual looks of the Q5 vs the agressive stance of the GLK. Interior seemed less posh vs Merc. The drive of thw Q5 was comparable but felt slower to get up to speed despite the similar HP. The Merc engine sound is amazing!!! And the Q5 sounds very high pitched and whiney.

I guess it all depends on preference in the end though. Also price point. To get a similarly equipped Q5 was a little bit more then the Benz.

[atgilchrist]

Cool, thanks for the perspective!

[Sugarphreak]

Originally posted by topher91
I didn't like the actual looks of the Q5 vs the agressive stance of the GLK. Interior seemed less posh vs Merc. The drive of thw Q5 was comparable but felt slower to get up to speed despite the similar HP. The Merc engine sound is amazing!!! And the Q5 sounds very high pitched and whiney.

I guess it all depends on preference in the end though. Also price point. To get a similarly equipped Q5 was a little bit more then the Benz.

That is interesting how each appeals to people;

I found the exact opposite between these two vehicles; the Q5 I took out for a test drive was very responsive and felt way more powerful & sure footed around corners than the GLK. I found it WAY nicer than the Merc inside as well.

What appeals to me about the GLK most is the outside styling and simple interior. The Q5 on the other hand felt more like a luxury SUV and was a lot more fun to drive. If I was picking a daily driver it would be the Q5 for sure.

One thing I do agree on is both of them were much better than the X3.

Of course after everything we ended up buying a Hummer... lol

[topher91]

Wow really? Lol ya perspectives are totally different! I have 2 BMW's and would love the X3 or X5. They both drive exceptionally well but bang for buck is in the pisser there. A loaded Q5 or GLK is priced close to a mildly optioned BMW.

[Diocletian]

Originally posted by topher91
Well, we have mighty fine arguments from all. Thank you.

Any vehicle with recalls doesn't mean its terrible. As long as all these issues were taken care of, then I'd be comfortable with it.

But it looks like the main deterrent for me at this time is maintenance costs.

Not that they are unreliable, but just like regular maintenance like oil changes, brake services etc... cost much much more then I'd like them to lol

Thank you all for opinions from all sides.

:drama: :thumbsup: :)

In my statement that it was unreliable I wasn't even referring to it's numerous recalls. You make a good point, though, they have had extensive recalls.

[Diocletian]

Originally posted by cam_wmh

LOL @ an H2 vs Cayenne comparison!


I think it gives a good picture of how bad the fuel economy actually is. To me the comparison is also valid as the H2 is one of the few other vehicles I can think of that are as pointless and ridiculous as the cayenne... well until ferrari decides to build a budget SUV with poor reliability.

[962 kid]

Originally posted by Diocletian


In my statement that it was unreliable I wasn't even referring to it's numerous recalls. You make a good point, though, they have had extensive recalls.

Recalls = good thing, it means that the manufacturer is fixing existing problems. Ask BMW why they don't recall the O-ring that seals a coolant pipe running through the valley in the X5's engine, or why Lexus doesn't recall their dashes or autodipping mirrors :whocares: All are very, very common problems that came easily to mind. The Cayenne is a great car to drive, better than any of it's current competitors and to some that's worth paying a premium. Just because you prefer a boring, slow, gas-guzzling, reliable lump like the LX570 to a fast, exciting, involving gas-guzzling lump like the Cayenne doesn't make it pointless. Saying so just puts your narrow-mindedness on display for all to see.

[Sugarphreak]

Originally posted by topher91
Wow really? Lol ya perspectives are totally different! I have 2 BMW's and would love the X3 or X5. They both drive exceptionally well but bang for buck is in the pisser there. A loaded Q5 or GLK is priced close to a mildly optioned BMW.

The X3 isn't a bad vehicle by any means, I just found it a bit dated compared to the new ones currently out there. My feeling is they are just about due for a new X3 model.... although a manual tranny is a HUGE selling feature for me.

The Q5 we priced out ended up being much more than the GLK, it helps that we get a supplier discount at Audi. I almost pulled the trigger on the deal, the salesmen at Audi & Mercedes are also top notch gentlemen, I like dealing with them a lot more VS the BMW sales guys. Those assholes ignored me for 15 minutes before I walked out... I guess they figure I was too young and couldn't afford it; funny thing is I pay cash for my cars.

In the end we went with the Hummer just because we got it for so cheap. We spent less than half the amount we would have on the Q5, even with the Audi discounts.

[Diocletian]

Originally posted by 962 kid


Recalls = good thing, it means that the manufacturer is fixing existing problems. Ask BMW why they don't recall the O-ring that seals a coolant pipe running through the valley in the X5's engine, or why Lexus doesn't recall their dashes or autodipping mirrors :whocares: All are very, very common problems that came easily to mind. The Cayenne is a great car to drive, better than any of it's current competitors and to some that's worth paying a premium. Just because you prefer a boring, slow, gas-guzzling, reliable lump like the LX570 to a fast, exciting, involving gas-guzzling lump like the Cayenne doesn't make it pointless. Saying so just puts your narrow-mindedness on display for all to see.


Well if recalls are a good thing, Toyota had its most successful years ever in 2005-2007 lol. Jokes aside though, recalls can be seen as a good thing as it means the automaker is taking steps to protect its customers. On the other hand it shows that the R&R is lacking and possibility the quality too.

The chayenne is nice to drive but many cars are better to drive. It's a vehicle that really doesn't fit anywhere. It's not a sports car (if you want exciting you look elsewhere), it's not an SUV (although it tries), it's not particularly practical and it's NOT reliable by any stretch of the imagination. There is really no good reason to own one aside from wanting desperately to show how you're keeping up with the yuppy housewife crowd.

What you're saying puts your lack of taste and critical thinking on display for the whole world to see - and it's an ugly sight. :)

[Diocletian]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


The X3 isn't a bad vehicle by any means, I just found it a bit dated compared to the new ones currently out there. My feeling is they are just about due for a new X3 model.... although a manual tranny is a HUGE selling feature for me.

The Q5 we priced out ended up being much more than the GLK, it helps that we get a supplier discount at Audi. I almost pulled the trigger on the deal, the salesmen at Audi & Mercedes are also top notch gentlemen, I like dealing with them a lot more VS the BMW sales guys. Those assholes ignored me for 15 minutes before I walked out... I guess they figure I was too young and couldn't afford it; funny thing is I pay cash for my cars.

In the end we went with the Hummer just because we got it for so cheap. We spent less than half the amount we would have on the Q5, even with the Audi discounts.

Wow your taste is overwhelming. It's no wonder most people retire broke.

[alloroc]

Guys.

Op made his decision.

:closed:

[Sugarphreak]

Originally posted by Diocletian


Wow your taste is overwhelming. It's no wonder most people retire broke.

....I know... Hummer Tasteless.... I know. It is an odd story how I ended up with it; see thread for an explanation
http://forums.beyond.ca/st/269062/new-wheels-4x4/

Not sure what you are getting at with the other sentence though? How does this demonstrate that I would somehow retire broke?

[Diocletian]

Buying a string of overpriced cars in a short period of time doesn't exactly yell out "wise money management"

[Sugarphreak]

Ok.... but I didn't buy a string of expensive cars.... I actually saved up the cash over the past few years for a second vehicle and in the end I compromised a bit on what I needed & only spent half of it.

I was going to buy the Q5; but the H3T was half the price.

[962 kid]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Ok.... but I didn't buy a string of expensive cars.... I actually saved up the cash over the past few years for a second vehicle and in the end I compromised a bit on what I needed & only spent half of it.

I was going to buy the Q5; but the H3T was half the price.

:rofl: :rofl: why are you defending yourself against this troll?

[Sugarphreak]

Originally posted by 962 kid


:rofl: :rofl: why are you defending yourself against this troll?

I am bored... lol

If you need more proof; I was asking Evilancer what "header back" system he is buying on another thread to see what kind of hilarious reply he will put up.

[Diocletian]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Ok.... but I didn't buy a string of expensive cars.... I actually saved up the cash over the past few years for a second vehicle and in the end I compromised a bit on what I needed & only spent half of it.

I was going to buy the Q5; but the H3T was half the price.

I'm trying to figure out what need a Q5 and H3 could both fill. They really have few things in common.

[Sugarphreak]

Originally posted by Diocletian


I'm trying to figure out what need a Q5 and H3 could both fill. They really have few things in common.

I did post up a link to a more detailed explaination... but the simple answer is ground glearance, awd, utility & above average creature comforts. Both the Q5 and H3T share these traits.

[Diocletian]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


I did post up a link to a more detailed explaination... but the simple answer is ground glearance, awd, utility & above average creature comforts. Both the Q5 and H3T share these traits.


LOL if you're looking for offroad capability you definitely wouldn't look twice at the Q5. If you were looking for comfort you definitely wouldn't even consider the H3 - which is one of the most unpleasant vehicles I've driven since the first generation isuzu trooper. As for AWD - you can find this is virtually every CUV on the market today.

[Diocletian]

I didn't remember the Q5 having earth shaking ground clearance so I went and looked it up for you. As I thought, it's ground clearance is not particularly impressive at all - in fact the Mercedes GL, the volvo XC, the BMW X5, the Jeep grand Cherokee (and many others) all have better ground clearance.... in some cases by over an inch. The list of SUV's that don't have as much ground clearance would likely be much shorter, than ones that do.

[Sugarphreak]

Originally posted by Diocletian

LOL if you're looking for offroad capability you definitely wouldn't look twice at the Q5. If you were looking for comfort you definitely wouldn't even consider the H3 - which is one of the most unpleasant vehicles I've driven since the first generation isuzu trooper. As for AWD - you can find this is virtually every CUV on the market today.

Valid points, but that still doesn't change the criteria I set for a second car; you are assuming the emphasis for choosing one or the other was on just luxury or ultimate capability, which it was not.

They both feature a solid AWD system and good ground clearance, more than enough to get me out of my driveway (last year I got hopelessly stuck on my street in my car a couple of times). Basically the Q5 > Honda Fit when it comes to un-plowed side streets.

The both offer increased utility over my car, clearly one more than the other though.... conversely they both offer above average interior finish, one also above the other.

I found both to drive pleasantly, the Q5 was of course much quicker in the corners... however if I was buying something for the race track I likely would have been looking at cars instead. so really that had a minimal influence on my decision.

When compared using this criteria the H3T and Q5 both ranked at the top of my list. In the end I choose utility and value over ultimate luxury.

[DRKM]

Originally posted by Diocletian
I didn't remember the Q5 having earth shaking ground clearance so I went and looked it up for you. As I thought, it's ground clearance is not particularly impressive at all - in fact the Mercedes GL, the volvo XC, the BMW X5, the Jeep grand Cherokee (and many others) all have better ground clearance.... in some cases by over an inch. The list of SUV's that don't have as much ground clearance would likely be much shorter, than ones that do.


Why are you busting this guys balls so hard? He was looking for an SUV and found one that he is happy with. Is that not all that matters?

What difference does it make that he liked the Hummer over the Q5?

[atgilchrist]

Originally posted by Diocletian
I didn't remember the Q5 having earth shaking ground clearance so I went and looked it up for you. As I thought, it's ground clearance is not particularly impressive at all - in fact the Mercedes GL, the volvo XC, the BMW X5, the Jeep grand Cherokee (and many others) all have better ground clearance.... in some cases by over an inch. The list of SUV's that don't have as much ground clearance would likely be much shorter, than ones that do.

The above examples are all larger than the Q5, and are Q7 competitors.

After crapping on pretty much every vehicle brought up in this thread, name one you do like.

[Diocletian]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


Valid points, but that still doesn't change the criteria I set for a second car; you are assuming the emphasis for choosing one or the other was on just luxury or ultimate capability, which it was not.

They both feature a solid AWD system and good ground clearance, more than enough to get me out of my driveway (last year I got hopelessly stuck on my street in my car a couple of times). Basically the Q5 > Honda Fit when it comes to un-plowed side streets.

The both offer increased utility over my car, clearly one more than the other though.... conversely they both offer above average interior finish, one also above the other.

I found both to drive pleasantly, the Q5 was of course much quicker in the corners... however if I was buying something for the race track I likely would have been looking at cars instead. so really that had a minimal influence on my decision.

When compared using this criteria the H3T and Q5 both ranked at the top of my list. In the end I choose utility and value over ultimate luxury.

This reasoning doesn't add up one little bit. Wanting to buy a Q5 but settling on a h3 is akin to wanting to buy a G wagon but settling on a corvette.

I didn't notice where you live but here in Calgary, I have yet to be stuck with my FWD and all season tires. At worse, city street snow fall levels are something that can be handled by any all wheel car or SUV easily. I really can't see anything here that likens them to each other and sets them apart from the competition.

If you mean that they offer increased utility over a car, you're referring to greater interior storage space, you're probably right, although there are countless other SUV's that also offer just as much and more cargo space. Also there are countless wagons on the market that also offer lots of cargo room and general "utility". Again - it's a little hard to see how only these two vehicles fit the bill.

Now your next paragraph really has me confused. Did you say that the H3 has above average interior quality? The Q5 does undeniably have a nicely finished interior but the H3's interior is so bad that one almost has a feeling that he's stepped into an 80's GM product. If quality and fit and finish are what someone is after, they don't look at the H3 (or the h2 for that matter), they run miles away from it.

Your next comment is equally confusing to me. No one thinks that an H3 drives nicely. There isn't much in the way of vehicles that you can buy that actually drive worse.

Anyway incase I was being unfair I went and had a look to see what some of the magazine reviewers thought about the matter.

Edmonds:
For everyday urban use, however, the smallest of Hummers still isn't the best choice. Unless you're driving the "Alpha" version, which boasts V8 power, the Hummer H3 can be painfully slow in certain situations. It's also let down by other traditional Hummer faults such as poor outward visibility and an interior that isn't as voluminous as its exterior styling suggests. If you're keen on the H3's looks and style, or if you plan on plenty of recreational use, the H3 should be a good purchase. However, our editors feel that most buyers will be better served by other available midsize SUVs.

The truth about cars
The H3’s exterior dimensions promise space and convenience nowhere to be found on the inside. The back seat offers the same room as any family sedan; it’s utterly cramped with three adults. The trunk’s even worse. With two huge intrusions on either side, the H3 struggled to hold three suitcases and two duffel bags, a load that would easily fit into any station wagon or large sedan on sale today.

That said, the H3 benefits from GM’s other, more recent truck interior re-designs. The leatherette seats are supportive and comfortable. The steering wheel itself is pleasant to grasp, though the observation comes from a recovering Pontiac Grand Prix renter. The center arm-rest is well placed for long rides. And truth be told, it’s difficult to slag the H3 for the rest of the cheap plastics that permeate the interior, since its supposed off-roader mojo lends itself well to cheap, frugal materials.

Looking to ride and handling in the hopes of redemption are futile, even by truck standards. Weighing about 500 lbs. too much, the H3 transmits everything to its owner. Drive down the smoothest of highways and the vibrations will make you think the tires are made of solid rock. It’s Jeep Syndrome to the 10th degree. A combination of mass and crappy brakes makes the H3 prone to bus-like understeer, and hitting four-wheel drifts on bumpy gravel roads was pathetically easy.

The car connection:
Inside, the 2009 HUMMER H3T shares the same front seats and the instrument panel as the H3 SUV. Neither is as exciting inside as it is outside; the instrument panel styling is remarkably generic, with rounded edges that contrast with the exterior, and doesn’t scream “HUMMER” in any way except for the brand badges. The rear seat of the H3T is unique to the HUMMER line, but is otherwise standard pickup fare with a three-person bench that folds up to open up floor space for cargo (total seating is for five). The Alpha's accented seat piping adds some visual interest to an otherwise duty-driven interior.

[Diocletian]

Originally posted by atgilchrist


The above examples are all larger than the Q5, and are Q7 competitors.

After crapping on pretty much every vehicle brought up in this thread, name one you do like.

Most of the comparison tests have chosen those cars to test the Audi Q5 against, which incidentally is why I chose them too. As I stated before, there is not shortage of SUV's that boast as much if not more ground clearance.

You ask me what SUV's I like? Well that depends on what the intended goal of the vehicle is. Over all and in no particular order I like the: Toyota 4runner, Acura MDX, Honda Pilot, Toyota RX350, Lexus LX (both), Toyota land cruiser, Jeep Grand Cherokee, nissan pathfinder, nissan xterra, Yukon/Suburban, toyota sequoia.

[Sugarphreak]

Originally posted by Diocletian


This reasoning doesn't add up one little bit. Wanting to buy a Q5 but settling on a h3 is akin to wanting to buy a G wagon but settling on a corvette.

I didn't notice where you live but here in Calgary, I have yet to be stuck with my FWD and all season tires. At worse, city street snow fall levels are something that can be handled by any all wheel car or SUV easily. I really can't see anything here that likens them to each other and sets them apart from the competition.



First off... you don't use winter tires for the snow?

I am pretty sure I mentioned a couple of times I have winter tires for my car. There is no snow plowing service on side streets which often results in getting stuck in the winter when we get more than five or six inches of snow. I really don't know how I could possibly make this more clear.

I also remarked a few times that the Q5 and H3T where very different in nature, but when compared on the above mentioned criteria they rounded out the top two.... what do you want already, a signed statement? ;)


Originally posted by Diocletian


If you mean that they offer increased utility over a car, you're referring to greater interior storage space, you're probably right, although there are countless other SUV's that also offer just as much and more cargo space. Also there are countless wagons on the market that also offer lots of cargo room and general "utility". Again - it's a little hard to see how only these two vehicles fit the bill.



Fit the bill?

Exactly how hard is it to see that a lager AWD SUV generally offers utility over an economy car?

Did you ever consider that perhaps I didn't want a wagon?


Originally posted by Diocletian

Now your next paragraph really has me confused. Did you say that the H3 has above average interior quality? The Q5 does undeniably have a nicely finished interior but the H3's interior is so bad that one almost has a feeling that he's stepped into an 80's GM product. If quality and fit and finish are what someone is after, they don't look at the H3 (or the h2 for that matter), they run miles away from it.

Your next comment is equally confusing to me. No one thinks that an H3 drives nicely. There isn't much in the way of vehicles that you can buy that actually drive worse.

Anyway incase I was being unfair I went and had a look to see what some of the magazine reviewers thought about the matter.



I am not sure what specifically your beef is with the interior, the fit and finsih is pretty clean, no really issue with poor fitment anywhere. I found the dash controls to be well laid out, reachable and logically located. The captians seats are very comfortable and the driver has 8-way power adjustable with lumbar support... it aslo has handsfree bluetooth for my phone with a mic located above the driver and integrated sat radio. Everything is tied together with a satin brushed aluminum trim, remarkably simple & clean design... I happen to like it.

As for your links to review I suppose it is one of those things you need to find out for yourself; I test drove all of the SUV's I considered and made my own conclusion. I even took it on a 3000km road trip a few weeks later and I happen to think it is a very comfortable vehicle that is a pleasure to drive.

[Diocletian]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sugarphreak


I am pretty sure I mentioned a couple of times I have winter tires for my car. There is no snow plowing service on side streets which often results in getting stuck in the winter when we get more than five or six inches of snow. I really don't know how I could possibly make this more clear.

I also remarked a few times that the Q5 and H3T where very different in nature, but when compared on the above mentioned criteria they rounded out the top two.... what do you want already, a signed statement? ;)

No, I don't use winter tires in the snow

That's great that you mentioned that you use winter tires in the snow - I'm not sure what that has to do with anything, though....

The thing is - the only thing that the Q5 and the H3 have in common is that they both try to make a statement. Aside from that, they couldn't be any more different.

Fit the bill?

Exactly how hard is it to see that a lager AWD SUV generally offers utility over an economy car?*****

I'm afraid you're misunderstanding what I'm getting at. The point I was making, was that there are plenty of other vehicles, both cars and SUV's that would offer as much "utility". Economy cars in specific, were never mentioned.

Did you ever consider that perhaps I didn't want a wagon?

Ahhh the truth is starting to come out.



I am not sure what specifically your beef is with the interior, the fit and finsih is pretty clean, no really issue with poor fitment anywhere. I found the dash controls to be well laid out, reachable and logically located. The captians seats are very comfortable and the driver has 8-way power adjustable with lumbar support... it aslo has handsfree bluetooth for my phone with a mic located above the driver and integrated sat radio. Everything is tied together with a satin brushed aluminum trim, remarkably simple & clean design... I happen to like it.



My beef with the interior is that it consists of cheap plastics, big gaps and endless squeaks. You'd find a very similar interior in the cobalt.

As for your links to review I suppose it is one of those things you need to find out for yourself; I test drove all of the SUV's I considered and made my own conclusion. I even took it on a 3000km road trip a few weeks later and I happen to think it is a very comfortable vehicle that is a pleasure to drive.

As I thought I stated very clearly - the links were given to support my own opinion. If you actually did drive "all the SUV's" and came to the conclusion that the H3 was had the best fit and finish and handling, you must have been drunk as there is no way any properly functioning human being could come to this conclusion.

[atgilchrist]

There is certainly a lot of newbie's who are worth adding to the "ignore" list recently!

[Sugarphreak]

Originally posted by Diocletian
As I thought I stated very clearly - the links were given to support my own opinion. If you actually did drive "all the SUV's" and came to the conclusion that the H3 was had the best fit and finish and handling, you must have been drunk as there is no way any properly functioning human being could come to this conclusion.

:facepalm: Oh come on, I didn't state a single one of those things... you arn't even being a good troll anymore Diocletian.

At the end of the day it does make me feel better knowing that when somebody out there who decides they don't need winter tires *cough cough Diocletian* comes careening into me because they can't stop in the snow; statistically an H3T > Diocletian's car.

[Diocletian]

The vast majority of people, don't use winter tires. It's perfectly safe assuming an appropriate vehicle and all season tires.

If you're so concerned about public safety, you wouldn't be driving a 4000lbs+ SUV.

[Sugarphreak]

Originally posted by Diocletian
The vast majority of people, don't use winter tires. It's perfectly safe assuming an appropriate vehicle and all season tires.

If you're so concerned about public safety, you wouldn't be driving a 4000lbs+ SUV.

Winter tires should be mandatory IMO; running without them is a selfish act & endangers other drivers around you in the winter.

[Justing]

Originally posted by Diocletian
The vast majority of people, don't use winter tires. It's perfectly safe assuming an appropriate vehicle and all season tires.

If you're so concerned about public safety, you wouldn't be driving a 4000lbs+ SUV.

Yo Diocletian, i'm really happy for you and ima let you finish, but homelessman was one of the best trolls of all time.


srsly stfu. people are not buying cars based on your approval, they are buying them because its their money and they can do whatever the hell they want with it.

Why do you have so much damn time to find all these articles anyways?
You must be insanely annoying in person.

just shut up.

[atgilchrist]

Originally posted by Justing


Yo Diocletian, i'm really happy for you and ima let you finish, but homelessman was one of the best trolls of all time.



:rofl: :rofl:

[Diocletian]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


Winter tires should be mandatory IMO; running without them is a selfish act & endangers other drivers around you in the winter.


That's kind of how I feel about people who drive SUV's.

Actually winter tires are far from idea for the calgary climate. Our winter temperatures often reaches far into the plus side which wears out winter tires at an alarming rate.

[Diocletian]

Originally posted by Justing


Yo Diocletian, i'm really happy for you and ima let you finish, but homelessman was one of the best trolls of all time.


srsly stfu. people are not buying cars based on your approval, they are buying them because its their money and they can do whatever the hell they want with it.

Why do you have so much damn time to find all these articles anyways?
You must be insanely annoying in person.

just shut up.

You juz so gangsta dog.

[Ntense_SpecV]

Originally posted by Diocletian



That's kind of how I feel about people who drive SUV's.

Actually winter tires are far from idea for the calgary climate. Our winter temperatures often reaches far into the plus side which wears out winter tires at an alarming rate.

Part of this statement is true. Yes we do hit above average temps in the winter time, but only if a Chinook rolls through otherwise we are well below 0. So yes, winter tires can wear out prematurely if it warms up a fair bit, but their dedicated purpose far outweighs any shortcomings. There is a huge difference in how a vehicle performs with true winter tires compared to all seasons – it’s not even a comparison at that point. After this thread and your gas tax thread, I have formed my own opinion that you really are an idiot.

[Diocletian]

Originally posted by Ntense_SpecV


Part of this statement is true. Yes we do hit above average temps in the winter time, but only if a Chinook rolls through otherwise we are well below 0. So yes, winter tires can wear out prematurely if it warms up a fair bit, but their dedicated purpose far outweighs any shortcomings. There is a huge difference in how a vehicle performs with true winter tires compared to all seasons – it’s not even a comparison at that point. After this thread and your gas tax thread, I have formed my own opinion that you really are an idiot.

I couldn't disagree more. The vast majority of the days in the winter calgary is between - 10 and 2 degree's with little if any snow on the roads. In places such as the east where snow falls levels can be very high or places that get cold and stay cold, winter tires might make more sense.

Making a manditory winter tires law is fraught with problems such as enforcement and supply. Quebec's new law recently proved how difficult this can be. Also like all season and summer tires, there are huge differences in types and quality of winter tires. A extremely poor quality set of winters doesn't put you much ahead of the guy driving on all seasons.

Winter tires have only recently become a necessity due to the number of vehicles being produced with very wide, low profile high performance tires on them. For vehicles such as these, winter tires are the ONLY choice if you want any semblance of safety in winter driving. Of course this also keeps the dealers and tire makers very happy with sales too.

[Ntense_SpecV]

Originally posted by Diocletian


I couldn't disagree more. The vast majority of the days in the winter calgary is between - 10 and 2 degree's with little if any snow on the roads. In places such as the east where snow falls levels can be very high or places that get cold and stay cold, winter tires might make more sense.

Making a manditory winter tires law is fraught with problems such as enforcement and supply. Quebec's new law recently proved how difficult this can be. Also like all season and summer tires, there are huge differences in types and quality of winter tires. A extremely poor quality set of winters doesn't put you much ahead of the guy driving on all seasons.

Winter tires have only recently become a necessity due to the number of vehicles being produced with very wide, low profile high performance tires on them. For vehicles such as these, winter tires are the ONLY choice if you want any semblance of safety in winter driving. Of course this also keeps the dealers and tire makers very happy with sales too.

Only recently winter tires have become necessary? Winter tires have been necessary everywhere in Canada for as long as I have been alive. I grew up in interior BC where you had to have winter tires or good luck driving anywhere. The problem with Calgary is due to the fact that we have massive freeze/thaw cycles which in turn keeps a low amount of snow (compact or not) on the streets. Go drive up in Edmonton and see how much snow they get in their winter season. They don't have the melt that follows a Chinook.

Also, the real reason to have winter tires is due to the fact that they have silica in their design which keeps them from hardening the tread when temperatures drop below -20, but of course we don't ever see really cold months of weather now do we. I mean, it's not like we hit -35 for 4 weeks in a row this past year. But have fun driving on rock hard tires if you want to be cheap. I will take my winter tires that have lasted for 6 years now, and continue to have 0 problems driving in the winter.

Anyways, this thread is done. Hopefully the OP bought the vehicle that he likes and is satisfied with it.

[Sugarphreak]

My winter tires are going on 3 years old... lots of tread left still :dunno:

I even run them from mid October to late May every year.

The only reason somebody wouldn't put winter tires on thier car is either they are too cheap or just ignorant of the benifits. To not put them on for the reasons you mentioned is pretty selfish, you could potentially prevent an accident by using them; that far outweighs any additional cost.

Maybe if they lowered the taxes on gasoline people would have more money to spend on proper tires for winter.


Originally posted by Ntense_SpecV

Anyways, this thread is done. Hopefully the OP bought the vehicle that he likes and is satisfied with it.
Sounds like the OP is going to pick up a GLK, that kind of got lost in the mess of pages at the end of this thread.

[Diocletian]

Originally posted by Ntense_SpecV


Only recently winter tires have become necessary? Winter tires have been necessary everywhere in Canada for as long as I have been alive. I grew up in interior BC where you had to have winter tires or good luck driving anywhere. The problem with Calgary is due to the fact that we have massive freeze/thaw cycles which in turn keeps a low amount of snow (compact or not) on the streets. Go drive up in Edmonton and see how much snow they get in their winter season. They don't have the melt that follows a Chinook.


LOL well I have a few comments to make to this.

First of all, I never said Canada as a whole. The poster I was talking to was from Calgary as am I. Second of all snow tires are not necessarily the same thing as "winter" tires. The characteristics that you want in an ice tire are somewhat different to what you want in an ice tire.

It's funny that winter tires have been a necessity everywhere in Canada as long as you've been alive as only 20% of tires sold in Canada are winter tires. I guess a lot of people must not be driving in the winter then, hey?

Also, the real reason to have winter tires is due to the fact that they have silica in their design which keeps them from hardening the tread when temperatures drop below -20, but of course we don't ever see really cold months of weather now do we. I mean, it's not like we hit -35 for 4 weeks in a row this past year. But have fun driving on rock hard tires if you want to be cheap. I will take my winter tires that have lasted for 6 years now, and continue to have 0 problems driving in the winter.

Nope, here in Calgary we sure didn't hit -35 for four weeks in a row.

Anyways, this thread is done. Hopefully the OP bought the vehicle that he likes and is satisfied with it. [/B]

[Diocletian]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
My winter tires are going on 3 years old... lots of tread left still :dunno:

I even run them from mid October to late May every year.

The only reason somebody wouldn't put winter tires on thier car is either they are too cheap or just ignorant of the benifits. To not put them on for the reasons you mentioned is pretty selfish, you could potentially prevent an accident by using them; that far outweighs any additional cost.

Maybe if they lowered the taxes on gasoline people would have more money to spend on proper tires for winter.


Sounds like the OP is going to pick up a GLK, that kind of got lost in the mess of pages at the end of this thread.


Go and reread my previous posts and then come back. I grow tires of repeating myself

[zipdoa]

Originally posted by Diocletian



Go and reread my previous posts and then come back. I grow tires of repeating myself

http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/10/15/128685628421999776.jpg

[alloroc]

Originally posted by Ntense_SpecV


Also, the real reason to have winter tires is due to the fact that they have silica in their design which keeps them from hardening the tread when temperatures drop below -20, .

Silica does not soften the compound.

On dry pavement non studded winter tires become equal to most regular tires at PLUS 7, and yes our winters are colder than +7 for most months.

All the more reason to use winters really, if you don't think they help your stopping distance you are an idiot - plain and simple - a plain simple idiot.

EDIT: can we lock this thread now?

[Diocletian]

Originally posted by alloroc


Silica does not soften the compound.

On dry pavement non studded winter tires become equal to most regular tires at PLUS 7, and yes our winters are colder than +7 for most months.

All the more reason to use winters really, if you don't think they help your stopping distance you are an idiot - plain and simple - a plain simple idiot.

EDIT: can we lock this thread now?

I don't believe that anyone claimed that good winter tires wouldn't reduce stopping distances. Now that you bring it up, however, only certain types of winter tires will reduce your stopping distance - another reason why enforcement is hard.

[topher91]

wow this went from buying a Porsche to winter tires...

WAAAAAY off topic.





Yes, we have decided on a GLK




/close :closed:

[Weapon_R]

Congrats.

And :closed: