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SneakyNeek
09-17-2009, 09:46 AM
Figured it was time to start this up.

2-0

The guys aren't looking to bad. I think there are alot of guys that could crack the line up

Staois could be in tough for his job.

95EagleAWD
09-17-2009, 01:45 PM
I expect Nilsson to get waived as well. Just can't see him making the lineup with Quinn on the bench.

oilerfan4lyfe
09-17-2009, 05:43 PM
Too bad preseason doesn't count for anything haha...hopefully it's a good sign for the start of the year though

How about Souray cracking the glass twice with slappers...wow.

SneakyNeek
09-18-2009, 10:50 AM
haha yea hopefully that will put some scare into other teams come the start of the season

AaronK
09-18-2009, 11:06 AM
:whocares:































:goflames:

calgarygts
09-18-2009, 11:21 AM
ANYWAYS....

I'm excited for hockey to start up again, it'll be pretty interesting to see the effect Quinn has on the team. I've heard through the grapevine (which really means nothing) that he's going with an attacking system and that the players so far are liking it. Hope it pans out for us.

Looking at a healthy defensive corps with Souray, Grebeshkov, Vishnovsky and Gilbert....there should be a ton of offense from the blue line. As for the forwards I hope Gagner can figure out why he sucks so bad at the start of the year and lights it up at the end. And here's to hoping that the oilers organization has paid the fast food and italian restaurants in edmonton to ban Penner from their premises.

HuMz
09-18-2009, 11:46 AM
Originally posted by 95EagleAWD
I expect Nilsson to get waived as well. Just can't see him making the lineup with Quinn on the bench.

Disagree, from all reports he was by far the best player both days of training camp. He also looked very good in the first pre-season game.

I know its pre-season, but you combine that with the fact he put on 15 lbs, had a personal trainer all summer long for the first time, and he knows he's at the end of his rope, it appears to me like hes finally gotten the picture.

Hes always had incredible talent (Second to Hemsky on the team) its just been effort and inconsistency.

Kennyredline
09-18-2009, 12:09 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by AaronK
[B]:whocares:
All Flames fans...quote this post...let's clog this thread up!!

















:thumbsup:

jazzyb
09-18-2009, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by AaronK
:whocares:































:goflames:

Quizzes
09-18-2009, 03:12 PM
LOL @ Sam Gagner taking Mike Comrie's number. That is all. Let the Battle of Alberta begin!

SneakyNeek
09-18-2009, 04:04 PM
Wow do we come in and post stupid fucking comments on the flames thread. If you going to come in here and talk smack, least have something intelligent to say. WANKERS

rumeo
09-18-2009, 06:12 PM
C-C-C-C-C OMBO BREAKER!!

Go Canucks Go!:rofl:


haha in all seriousness, the Oilers seem to be contenders this year.

With Renney and Quinn coaching you guys will finally have proper coaching. Khabibulin is definitely a solid goal tender and was a great pick up. Your offense looks dangerous, a healthy Ales Hemsky, Patty O'Sullivan, Souray has a bomb.

How's Penner's fitness? Is this his last year on his contract? He's gonna have to take such a huge pay cut lol.

npham
09-18-2009, 06:33 PM
Contenders for what? The Oilers have a good young team, but there is a lot to prove. I think you are the only person I've seen say that the Oilers are contending for anything. Vegas odds have the Oilers at 1:50 or 1:75 to win the cup. That's far off from Detroit and Pitsburgh at 1:5 to 1:6 to win. The Oilers will be outside the playoffs this year.

Detroit
San Jose
Chicago
Vancouver
Calgary
St Louis
Anaheim
LA

Will probably be the teams from the West making the playoffs, in no particular order. Columbus, Minnesota, Nashville and Edmonton will be the group fighting for a spot, but will fall short.

rumeo
09-18-2009, 07:53 PM
Originally posted by npham
Contenders for what? The Oilers have a good young team, but there is a lot to prove. I think you are the only person I've seen say that the Oilers are contending for anything. Vegas odds have the Oilers at 1:50 or 1:75 to win the cup. That's far off from Detroit and Pitsburgh at 1:5 to 1:6 to win. The Oilers will be outside the playoffs this year.

Detroit
San Jose
Chicago
Vancouver
Calgary
St Louis
Anaheim
LA

Will probably be the teams from the West making the playoffs, in no particular order. Columbus, Minnesota, Nashville and Edmonton will be the group fighting for a spot, but will fall short.

St Louis and LA? Really? Though St Louis made the play offs last year, I think it wont happen this season. Mason is one of those goalies that start off really hot but don't stay hot, eg Nashville.

And though Quick, Bernier and Ersberg are fantastic goaltenders they can't stay consistent enough to take them to the playoffs. I hope they're not expecting Ryan Smyth to take them there either haha.

Now that Columbus made the playoffs finally, they're hungrier for it. Mason is playing his first full season, Nash just signed a long term deal, they're another team to watch for.

npham
09-18-2009, 10:38 PM
Well it's pretty obvious that you don't follow other teams that well because you would have known that the Blues were without Kariya and Andy McDonald for more than 75 games during the regular season. We swept them in the playoffs, but they put up a huge fight ever single game. They have a strong team with Backes, Perron and Berglund all expected to improve. Time to wake up, they were a tough tough customer in the playoffs, and this time they won't have injuries to hold them back.

LA will be a strong team this year too. They have a lot of players looking to break out. Doughty and Johnson will have great years, and with the likes of Frolov and Kopitar getting even better, they will be a team poised to make a playoff push. Goaltending will be their weakness, but their defence should make an average goal look good.

While Edmonton made some good moves, they are no where ready to have their kids take over and lead this team to the playoffs. Give it another year.

*take this to the Canucks thread if you care to reply

97'Scort
09-18-2009, 11:35 PM
If there randomly happen to be any other Oil fans living out in Victoria, I wouldn't mind having some bar buddies to go watch games with! I can't afford Center Ice this year :(

Boost Infested
09-19-2009, 01:18 AM
Fleury is back, flames are going to the cup.... again..... :poosie: :rofl: fuck the flames :D

dr_jared88
09-19-2009, 08:33 AM
Wow, Great start for Comrie and Khabibulin! Hopefully it stays that way! We look great so far but unfortunately pre-season means very little in the grand scheme of things.

SneakyNeek
09-22-2009, 10:14 AM
Originally posted by Boost Infested
Fleury is back, flames are going to the cup.... again..... :poosie: :rofl: fuck the flames :D


is it me or did this post not make any sence

Dave P
09-22-2009, 11:05 AM
Who is going to be the first killed from Souray's wild slap shot?

Quizzes
09-22-2009, 11:10 AM
Originally posted by Dave P
Who is going to be the first killed from Souray's wild slap shot?

Sheldon Souray

masoncgy
09-22-2009, 11:17 AM
Originally posted by npham
Detroit
San Jose
Chicago
Vancouver
Calgary
St Louis
Anaheim
LA

Uhhh... where's Dallas? The Stars had a Sean Avery/injury plagued season, which was too bad considering they were Cup contenders too... I would expect Dallas in the playoffs this year.

LA... really? haha.

dr_jared88
09-22-2009, 11:18 AM
I really hope they keep Eberle in the line up for at least a couple games for the beginning of the season. Watching him play has been exciting. He's been a dominate impact for the Oilers!

Nissanaddict
09-22-2009, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by masoncgy


Uhhh... where's Dallas? The Stars had a Sean Avery/injury plagued season, which was too bad considering they were Cup contenders too... I would expect Dallas in the playoffs this year.

LA... really? haha.

Dallas has quite possibly the worst coach in the league now, and they didn't do so hot last year. Even if Morrow's healthy, he's pretty old these days. I see them missing for sure.

masoncgy
09-22-2009, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by Nissanaddict


Dallas has quite possibly the worst coach in the league now, and they didn't do so hot last year. Even if Morrow's healthy, he's pretty old these days. I see them missing for sure.

Marc Crawford is the worst coach in the league? lol... that's new.

Dallas was a Cup contending team to start last season, only to have the Sean Avery debacle & a ton of injuries eliminate them from the post-season.

Morrow is 30, hardly 'old'. I think you're talking about Modano, who @ 39, is still the face of the franchise.

Roster is basically a carbon copy of 08-09... a healthy Stars team will be right in the mix.

rumeo
09-22-2009, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by masoncgy


Marc Crawford is the worst coach in the league? lol... that's new.

Dallas was a Cup contending team to start last season, only to have the Sean Avery debacle & a ton of injuries eliminate them from the post-season.

Morrow is 30, hardly 'old'. I think you're talking about Modano, who @ 39, is still the face of the franchise.

Roster is basically a carbon copy of 08-09... a healthy Stars team will be right in the mix.

Masoncgy, for once I agree with you, Stars will be right up in the mix. Npham, I retract my statement and I do agree with you, I forgot about Kariya and McDonald, you're also forgetting about Columbus and as Masoncgy said, Dallas, so they might still miss it because the conference is so tight.

SneakyNeek
09-23-2009, 08:16 AM
It is definitively going to be a a tough season. Its most likly going to come down to the last couple games with teams missing out by a point or 2. Lets just hope Edmonton gets in the bubble

Travel_Dude
09-23-2009, 08:43 AM
Originally posted by jazzyb

:goflames:

mowglee
09-23-2009, 08:58 AM
:goflames:




but seriously I wanted the Flames to draft Jordan Eberle (spelling?) pretty badly. Kind of upset that he went to the OILERS of all teams, but he's going to be deadly in a couple of years

beyond_ban
09-23-2009, 09:00 AM
:goflames:

Quizzes
09-24-2009, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by rumeo


Masoncgy, for once I agree with you, Stars will be right up in the mix. Npham, I retract my statement and I do agree with you, I forgot about Kariya and McDonald, you're also forgetting about Columbus and as Masoncgy said, Dallas, so they might still miss it because the conference is so tight.

Dallas lost Zubov to the KHL. That's really all they have for D. Although they have some good youngsters, it'll be hard to replace Zubov's mobility and offensive instincts. And, I'm not sold on Crawford being a coach. Tippett was a good coach, not sure why they would let him go. Having Morrow back is good, but that big hole in defense will kill them. They have a lot of cap space so they should at least try and get a good d-man to replace the loss of Zubov.

St. Louis should be better this season with the return of Kariya and Erik Johnson. Columbus is definitely relying on Steve Mason an awful lot. Goalies tend to suffer from the sophomore jinx after having a good first year (Price, Raycroft, etc.).

masoncgy
09-24-2009, 04:09 PM
^ Zubov has also been absent for much of the past two seasons. Sure, he's hard to replace... when he's there, that is.... and no one will miss his presence on the Stars more than I will, but his time has come.

Robidas & Daley are proving their worth, in addition Niskanen, Grossman, Fistric who are coming into their own... plus the recent addition of Skrastins & Woywitka will bolster the blue line.

I'm not sold on Crawford in Dallas... I would have preferred to see Tippett stick around... wasn't the best move, in my opinion... but perhaps Joe Nieuwendyk sees something we don't. I think if a coaching change had to occur, Guy Carbonneau would have been more ideal, but that's just my .02.

AaronK
09-24-2009, 04:28 PM
:goflames: :goflames: :goflames: :goflames: :goflames: :goflames: :goflames: :goflames: :goflames: :goflames:

Quizzes
09-24-2009, 04:30 PM
Speaking of Dave Tippett... he's gonna be the Coyotes new head coach?? :dunno:

Didn't think he'd be jobless for long.

masoncgy
09-24-2009, 04:33 PM
^ Considering how many times the Stars have encountered the Coyotes over the past several years under Tippett's watch, a huge advantage for the Coyotes with him on board.

Nissanaddict
09-24-2009, 09:00 PM
Originally posted by masoncgy


Marc Crawford is the worst coach in the league? lol... that's new.

Dallas was a Cup contending team to start last season, only to have the Sean Avery debacle & a ton of injuries eliminate them from the post-season.

Morrow is 30, hardly 'old'. I think you're talking about Modano, who @ 39, is still the face of the franchise.

Roster is basically a carbon copy of 08-09... a healthy Stars team will be right in the mix.

My bad about Morrow...I don't know why I thought he was older. Just been around for a while I guess.

Marc Crawford is an awful coach. Vancouver was better after him, LA was better before AND after him. Maybe not THE worst, but definitely a pretty poor coach.

Even if you don't buy that, you have to consider that Dave Tippett is widely regarded as an excellent coach, and his departure from Dallas will be felt, as will Zubov's exit. They're poised to step back.

masoncgy
09-25-2009, 01:46 PM
^ I disagree. The Stars had an scandal/injury plagued season... one of the worst I've seen a long time... they have nowhere to go but up.

We'll see what happens with Marc Crawford... perhaps he ends up being exactly what the doctor ordered... or perhaps he falls flat on his face... who knows. I'll give him the chance, not like I can turn my back on a team I have supported for over 25 years now... ;)

npham
09-25-2009, 09:41 PM
It's going to be either Dallas or LA. Dallas did have a redonkulous amount injuries last year, but I don't see them doing well under Marc Crawford. Along with coaching, it's going to be the defensive core, and Turco taking them to the playoffs this year. I'm pretty confident in the forward group they have, but they don't have a good enough defensive group to allow Turco to play "averagely."

While LA looks poised to break out this year. Tons of potential, with a handful of players looking to have career years. They remind me of Chicago a year before they broke out last season. Should be a good battle.

BMS
09-28-2009, 04:45 PM
well it looks as though Rob Schremp will finally make the NHL, on a different team that is. Just got cut and placed on waivers. I kind of hope another team grabs him. He's a good player but can't seem to do anything with us. We already have too many small forwards to seeing him go won't hurt anything. Looking forward to the new lineups this season, seeing Jacques on the top line is interesting and pretty exciting so far. Also looking forward to seeing Comrie light it up.

GO OIL!!!

shizzay
09-29-2009, 12:22 PM
it's too bad penner has that ridiculous contract.. it would be nice to aquire someone who would put out... and it would be nice to see cogliano and gagner have those break out seasons that they are destined to eventually have.

Dave P
09-29-2009, 12:29 PM
Shremp to the islanders.

I hope he haunts the oil haha

SneakyNeek
09-29-2009, 04:24 PM
im fine with it we already got too many shremp level players, im glad he gets a chance someone else. As for penner im giving him a second chance under quinn but if hes fucks up i will beat him with a puck in a sock

95EagleAWD
09-29-2009, 05:51 PM
Originally posted by Dave P
Shremp to the islanders.

I hope he haunts the oil haha

He won't. He's in the Eastern Conference now, so we'll never see him again.

blink1
10-03-2009, 09:00 PM
Dustin Penner is one of the biggest douchebags in the NHL. Anyone see his interview on CBC? :facepalm:

rumeo
10-04-2009, 11:31 AM
Originally posted by blink1
Dustin Penner is one of the biggest douchebags in the NHL. Anyone see his interview on CBC? :facepalm:

The way Penner is playing, looks like he's finally going to earn that $5 million of his. His being a physical presence, he still has his legs, and he doesn't have a douche of a coach to bring him down.

SneakyNeek
10-04-2009, 06:28 PM
Oilers were plYing wicked . Terrible way for the game to end. Calgary didn't deserve either of there wins.

Atriux
10-04-2009, 11:04 PM
Originally posted by SneakyNeek
Oilers were plYing wicked . Terrible way for the game to end. Calgary didn't deserve either of there wins.

I agree, but neither did the teams they were facing.

Spoons
10-05-2009, 03:46 PM
I'm still cheering, but I am growing tired of the direction our team is heading. Flames keep getting better, while we get worse. I hope this season is a lot better and proves my predictions wrong.

I HATE the Flames even more now. They actually have a decent team this year, and might do great things. Only thing now is Flames fans actually have a reason to having a chip on their shoulder now, instead of being blubbering fucktards and "think" they have an allstar team.

S13_Ryan
10-05-2009, 03:54 PM
its weird how it happened but i dont even really consider the "battle of alberta" to be anything important anymore. i was scared shitless when i heard of the khabibulin pickup this off-season but for the past 2 or 3 seasons ive found that the battle is more between the canucks and the flames.

Interesting to hear though that oil fans still think as much of it as both clubs fans once did. And i think many would agree

Atriux
10-05-2009, 09:07 PM
Originally posted by Spoons
Only thing now is Flames fans actually have a reason to having a chip on their shoulder now, instead of being blubbering fucktards and "think" they have an allstar team.

Perhaps you see this more because Beyond is based in Calgary, I'm sure if you went to an edmonton forum you'd find a lot of the same type of stuff going on (or heck, any city for that matter).

Like it always happens, only time will tell if anything is going to happen.

mowglee
10-05-2009, 09:13 PM
Originally posted by Spoons
I HATE the Flames even more now. They actually have a decent team this year, and might do great things. Only thing now is Flames fans actually have a reason to having a chip on their shoulder now, instead of being blubbering fucktards and "think" they have an allstar team.

how many players did Edmonton have attend team Canada camp?

HuMz
10-05-2009, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by mowglee


how many players did Edmonton have attend team Canada camp?

What does that have to do with anything? He admitted Edmonton is on the down well calgary on the up which is very hard to do.

Esspecially when there will be others playing for other countries who will have an impact. Not too mention Souray easily should have had an invite, esspecially when you look at some of the invites on defense (Doughty, Staal, Robidas, Beauchemin and a few others)

SmAcKpOo
10-06-2009, 12:19 PM
Like the Team Canada invites really make a difference, Luongo and Brodeur were invited and look how shitty they are playing.

SneakyNeek
10-06-2009, 02:28 PM
as well there are countries other then Canada that play in the Olympics, what about gilbert and o'sully for usa and hemsky for check's etc... just because we don't have any Canadian players in the Olympics doesn't mean we wont have players in it....

calgarygts
10-13-2009, 02:00 PM
Zack attack!! hahahahaha, what a gong show that game was! I'm still reeling from the fact that he scored two goals, and one of them was even pretty crafty by anyone's standards. Oil got a bit lucky with great goaltending at the start and basically all of their chances going in but overall I thought they looked pretty good.

The only thing that made that game better was the fact that calgary gave up six unaswered goals to lose. haha, what a night.

Boost Infested
10-22-2009, 10:17 PM
Wow... just wow.. what a night against the Blue Jackets. Nice match Pat! Penner, Gagner and Hemmer... will they rock the F' lamers this sat. :D

C4S
10-22-2009, 11:07 PM
Good game!

This is the different .. at least this year, when the Oilers is down, they can comeback ..

Sat game would be a fun game, as long as no more lucky bounce from the flames. ( 4 from last 2 meeting? )

:)

SScott
10-23-2009, 03:46 AM
Great Game! Penner had 5pts WOW

SneakyNeek
10-23-2009, 09:59 AM
yea that was awesome for sure Penner 4th in league scoring now woot

rumeo
10-23-2009, 10:33 AM
This is contract year for penner too right?

SneakyNeek
10-23-2009, 12:01 PM
yup k lowe suspected penners best years of the contract would be his 3rd and 4th years

rumeo
10-23-2009, 12:58 PM
Son of a bitch haha, guy works hard one year gets a huge pay day, slacks off for years, then works hard one year, waits for another huge pay day haha

SilverGS
10-23-2009, 03:21 PM
Originally posted by C4S
Good game!

This is the different .. at least this year, when the Oilers is down, they can comeback ..

Sat game would be a fun game, as long as no more lucky bounce from the flames. ( 4 from last 2 meeting? )

:)

And Edmonton didn't get lucky bounces?


Originally posted by rumeo
This is contract year for penner too right?

No he is signed to the end of 2012

Finally earning his keep though. If Horcoff ever does the Oilers would be somewhat scary.

D'z Nutz
10-23-2009, 03:29 PM
It's hard to believe this is the same player who was such an under-achiever when coached by MacT

Boost Infested
10-24-2009, 05:56 PM
Going to the dome tonight!
GO OILERS GO!!

Boost Infested
10-24-2009, 11:34 PM
brutal..... burnt by the flames tonight.

SneakyNeek
10-26-2009, 11:14 AM
meh i woulndt hold to much of it against them alot of these guys are battling the flu so were a little burnt out, once we get healthy were gunna look much better

gonefishing
10-28-2009, 01:45 AM
Wow what a difference a week makes. 3 straight loses to divisional rivals. And 2 shutouts to boot. Vish got injured tonite too. This team is in bad shape.

dawwgy
10-28-2009, 09:23 AM
SMID HAS THE SWINE FLU ... OINK OINK

at least you can blame your poor play as of late on that .... right?

SneakyNeek
10-28-2009, 10:08 AM
pretty much the whole team has been playing with the flu, they just looked outa gas and lifeless

403ep3
10-29-2009, 09:51 PM
WOW edmonton collapse

5-5 tie!

Boost Infested
10-29-2009, 10:27 PM
Almost as bad as the Flames vs Hawks....

95EagleAWD
10-29-2009, 11:27 PM
I got so mad I turned it off.

Glad to see we won. :banghead:

C4S
10-29-2009, 11:34 PM
It was a good start .. at least, some goals...

Hope they learn..

Red Wings .. sleeping gaint ! they can score!

Hope Souray, Staios, Visnosky will be back soon .... our powerplay is not good now, and defence is terrible!!

I think we still need a "Star" forward who can shoot!

DENZILDON
11-06-2009, 12:17 PM
Hello? anybody here?:rofl:

rumeo
01-25-2010, 01:34 AM
Last post in November?! Where are you guys? What are the trade rumours going down in Edmonton? Heard Souray was willing to waive his no movement clause? You guys should just buy out Horcoff and Moreau.

masoncgy
01-25-2010, 09:33 AM
Souray to Dallas? I'll go for that! :)

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL/Edmonton/2010/01/24/12596761.html

http://www.defendingbigd.com/2010/1/23/1266608/the-neutral-zone-stars-get-up

oilerfan4lyfe
01-25-2010, 12:16 PM
He might go for Dallas but I think his first choice would definately be any of the California teams...I think he'd be a pretty decent fit in Anaheim - he would probably excel on that team since he wouldn't be so heavily relied on this season - plus they would need a defenceman for next season if Niedermayer retires. But Anaheim is right up against the cap so they would need to either make other deals or send salary back to Edmonton and I'm not sure who they could give back to equal about a 5 million dollar cap hit.

Buying out Horcoff won't happen...if they bought him out this summer they would have to give him 1.73 million over the next 10 years (omg) and they would save a cap hit of about 5M but only for the next two seasons after which is buyout caphit would increase significantly. They're better off just hoping he turns his game around next year or that some team is willing to ditch one of their terrible contracts for Horcoff...Montreal trading Gomez for Horcoff comes to mind but Gomez isn't nearly as good defensively and he comes with an even heftier contract.

DelSoln
01-25-2010, 10:36 PM
^Gomez has been an entirely different player since being paired with Pouliot and Gionta. I believe he has 17 points in his last 15 games. No chance in hell they make that trade.

rumeo
01-26-2010, 12:18 AM
Dallas is in the same division as the Cali teams aren't they? So he'd be there quite a bit anyways. Who does Dallas have as a strong puck moving defenseman?

masoncgy
01-26-2010, 10:36 AM
^ Robidas.

oilerfan4lyfe
01-26-2010, 12:07 PM
Yup they got Robidas who is very underrated IMO.

Dallas is in the same division, however Texas is still pretty far away from California - the positive would be that even in Dallas, Souray could visit his family on road trips quite often.

We'll see what happens I guess...honestly I wouldn't mind at all if they kept him. I like having the Souray/Visnovsky combo (when they're healthy).

I think that people are forgetting that the Oilers really weren't that bad until the injuries and flu bit them in the ass...sure every team in the league has injuries but how many teams could survive losing their #1 goalie and best offensive player for the entire season...and on top of that losing each of their top 2 D-men for some games as well.

Maybe I'm just wearing my rose-coloured glasses but the team will probably end up in the bottom 3 of the standings, they'll get a good pick, and they'll come back next year with a huge ass turnaround.

I just hope they get rid of Grebeshkov...they would have to qualify him at 3.15M which is way, way more than he's worth...if he wants to go back to Russia just say good riddance and bring in Chorney.

jonnycat
02-02-2010, 05:26 PM
Finally got a W! Things are starting to look up. Maybe we'll still make the playoffs :rofl:

Such a painful time to be a fan. :barf:

masoncgy
02-02-2010, 05:30 PM
Knowing the Oilers, they'll go on a tear now and put themselves into the middle of the pack, missing the playoffs but falling out of the lottery... lol.

rumeo
02-02-2010, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by masoncgy
Knowing the Oilers, they'll go on a tear now and put themselves into the middle of the pack, missing the playoffs but falling out of the lottery... lol.

Haha so true, Edmonton is like the Toronto of the West!