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Graham_A_M
10-04-2009, 04:47 PM
First off, thanks a lot for taking the time to read this and offering any insight you can.

So yeah, weightlifting for many years now (about 7 or 8). EVERYTHING I've steadily increased my weight & reps on, just not flat & incline bench. Why? I don't know. There must be something I'm doing wrong. So thats why Im posting here.
I take Creatine & Glutamine fairly regularly as both work great.
Just no idea what I'm doing wrong. Any advice?

I do usually 1 plate & 20-25 with a spotter, 1 plate & 15pounds without out typically.
Three sets of 4-6 reps, then the same on either the flat bench or the incline at that point, yes I alternate every workout starting off with the other one..
what gives? Drives me nuts when I see guys smaller then me banging off two plates & two 35's or more... :banghead:

403ep3
10-04-2009, 06:12 PM
How hard are you pusing yourself?

I found that when I was going really hard a couple years back that it was easier to gain when you had motivation. I had a stronger friend that always pushed me and I was motivated to beat him in lifting. Ofcourse I never actually beat him because as I got stronger, so did he. Spots are key because you can't go hard w/o one.

Right now I am only doing a 45 and a 5/10 a side and I feel so weak..because I am. The highest I've went, while doing protein and creatine, was 2 plates a side. I was 145lbs then and now I am 140. It sucks losing it all lol.


Try to find someone to motivate you and Ibet you'll be pushing 2 a side in no time (3months?)

A790
10-04-2009, 06:18 PM
I hit that same plateau. I got right up to 85lbs a side (1x45, 1x35, 1x5) and spent months trying to get past it.

I wound up being able to do it by switching from regular bench to dumbell presses for a while. With DB pressing it's easier to push yourself because if you drop the weight it's likely going to fall to the side. Doing that I was able to get up to 95lbs/arm within a few weeks (started at 75), and when I went back to benching I was able to do 2x45/side.

Switch it up, make sure your diet is on. Oh, and maybe carb load the day before for that little extra kick?

2EFNFAST
10-04-2009, 07:15 PM
Don't forget some people are just weaker at bb bench than others - I can rep 300 but quickly run out of steam on it. I shoudl be able to do 400+, but i can't, oh well. Gave up long time ago trying to be a big bencher - too much chance of r/c and pec tears with it.

Stick with flat and incline db pressing, some leaning-forward dips, and you'll be golden.

But, if you want to improve your bench, then figure out which part of it is your weakest (e.g., coming off your chest, lockout, etc...), focus on powerlifting exercises that target that part (e.g., benching with chains, rack lockouts, etc....) and try to do a powerlifting routine (lower reps, more maxing) that's more focused on training it.

Also remember to really focus on the support-type exercises for it (e.g., military pressing, bent over bb rows (training lats in horizontal plane, same plane as bench))

liquidboi69
10-04-2009, 09:26 PM
How's your form? Most people that hit a plateau want to take supplements, or change up their routine. But it's really just their form holding them back.

Bench is probably the hardest to get the form down. Easiest to learn, hardest to perfect.

Do you tuck your shoulders? Do you push off your feet to keep the weight on the shoulder blades? Do you get a liftoff? Do you push the bar downwards out of the rack instead of up out of the rack, thus losing tightness?

A video of your form would help.

Dh3t6T-nqP0

Where do you fail? Lockout or off the chest. If you fail off the chest do more shoulder and chest work. If you fail at lockout do more tricep exercises.

TurboD
10-05-2009, 07:16 PM
I'm having the same problem.
My problem(s) are a combo of what was said in that video (my technique is shit) and I don't have a spot.

Graham_A_M
10-05-2009, 08:24 PM
Thanks everybody, greatly appreciated.

A790, sure I'll do dumbbells exclusively. Usually after the flat/incline bench Id finish up with dumbbells (because like you said you can just drop them if its too much).

403ep3, yeah not having a spotter or anybody bigger to work with sucks. normally I go with my older brother, but hes been away for several months now. :( I'll try the techniques listed in this thread and give an update, as he'll be back soon.

2effnfast, yeah I never do that max shit either, seen too many people rip/pull tendons, muscles & ligaments doing exactly that. No point really. I'll have to research what military presses & forward dips are. I dont think I've ever heard of either.

liquidboy, thanks for that vid. Yeah I was always told to keep the bar directly in line with the middle of my chest, and to never sway from that.
No problems with the liftoff or during the rep, just no strength advancement in general. Every workout: the same reps & results. :banghead:

That vid sure shows a lot different techniques then what I've been doing, so yeah I'll definitely give them a shot. :)

Thanks guys!

lint
10-05-2009, 08:31 PM
Don't know why not having a spotter is such a problem. When trying to develop strength, continuously going to failure is a surefire way to stall out. Try to keep 1-2 reps in the tank. Are all of your sets to failure? Have you tried backing off? Cycle through sets of 5 reps at 70%, 80% 90%?

Graham_A_M
10-05-2009, 08:38 PM
^ Yeah but isn't doing a full 100% per set fine? asides from the very first one I mean.
The first set I dont kill myself, so I leave it at 70-80%. From sets 2 & 3 and push as much as I can, typically the full 100% when I know I have some back up if I do stall.

I was told thats the best way to build muscle. Doing so I've done that to build lots of strength in other muscle groups.

So what you're saying is aim for stamina without exhaustion? (to a degree I mean)

lint
10-05-2009, 08:43 PM
^^^ so how's this technique been working out for you?

not going to failure on each set, or most sets, doesn't mean stamina when you're keeping the reps around 5. You need to get over the idea that you have to go to failure in order to get stronger. Not only do you not have to go to failure, you don't even need to get sore.

se7en
10-05-2009, 09:16 PM
just had to add something....make sure you come all the way down, and don't let it 'bounce' off your chest....I am not a regular here, so I don't know if you already know this...

I had a friend with the same problem, and he wouldn't let the bar down enough...couldn't get past 2 plates either.

after he let the bar go down all the way, he lost a bunch of 'strength' for a while, but it all came back and more.

I hope I am not insulting your ability, I have no idea how 'good' at lifting you are :).


cheers

jonn

theken
10-05-2009, 09:48 PM
the bar doesnt actually bounce off your chest, i have tried it, and all it does is smash your chest, your chest isn't bouncy at all

gqmw
10-05-2009, 10:30 PM
You definitely should not be "bouncing" off your chest. You go down as low as you can while still controlled so that you're able to push it back up. Some people go down to one inch, some people like to touch their chest...just don't drop it and bounce it off your chest.

Graham_A_M
10-05-2009, 10:32 PM
Oh no, I do full reps. All the way down until it touches my chest, then all the way up just before my elbows lock.
Which is the reason Decline bench is a waste of energy; as its merely an incomplete rep.:dunno: Yeah I know what you guys are talking about. :rofl: Im not one of those people.

Originally posted by lint
^^^ so how's this technique been working out for you?


Not very good, as per this thread. So Im always open to what you guys have to say. Thanks a lot... I'll have to try this as well to see how it works out.

lint
10-05-2009, 10:46 PM
Originally posted by Graham_A_M
Oh no, I do full reps. All the way down until it touches my chest, then all the way up just before my elbows lock.
Which is the reason Decline bench is a waste of energy; as its merely an incomplete rep.:dunno: Yeah I know what you guys are talking about. :rofl: Im not one of those people.


You haven't watched the Dave Tate video yet, have you?

liquidboi69
10-05-2009, 10:58 PM
Originally posted by theken
the bar doesnt actually bounce off your chest, i have tried it, and all it does is smash your chest, your chest isn't bouncy at all
People aren't talking about the "bounce" because your chest is 'bouncy' only.

Your muscles are actually stretchy and bouncy like an elastic band. If you go down and up fast, you stimulate something called a stretch reflex. If you pause for a second on the chest/don't bounce, then you don't exploit this. It is also safer for your shoulders.

Same works for squats. That is why when people do vertical jump tests, they squat down fast and then come up fast.

I found that pause benching, and not exploiting the stretch reflex really helped develop my off the chest strength Graham. You may have to use less weight at first if you don't already do this, but in the end it will help.

2EFNFAST
10-05-2009, 11:10 PM
Originally posted by Graham_A_M


403ep3, yeah not having a spotter or anybody bigger to work with sucks. normally I go with my older brother, but hes been away for several months now. :( I'll try the techniques listed in this thread and give an update, as he'll be back soon.
----

2effnfast, yeah I never do that max shit either, seen too many people rip/pull tendons, muscles & ligaments doing exactly that. No point really. I'll have to research what military presses & forward dips are. I dont think I've ever heard of either.
----
No problems with the liftoff or during the rep, just no strength advancement in general. Every workout: the same reps & results. :banghead:
-----
That vid sure shows a lot different techniques then what I've been doing, so yeah I'll definitely give them a shot. :)

Thanks guys!

If you don't have a spotter, bench in the power rack then. Actually, I never use a spotter, I bench in the power rack and use the safety catches to dump the bar if I have to. I've only had to 3times that I can recall in the last 10yrs, but it makes a BIG difference when you do.

Also, too many people get lulled into a false sense of security iwth a spotter - I was (very stupidly) using a no-thumbs grip several years ago benching. With a spotter. Well, guess what - at about 3/4 of the way back up, somehow the bar slipped out of my grip and fell on my sternum. Spotter could do dick all, because he wasn't expecting that to happen. And let me tell you, dropping 250lbs on your sternum HURTS.

It took me almost a year to fully recover (be able to do exercises and golf without any pain), and after it happened I couldn't hear for 3days, and only say black and white for a day and a half - very scary!

----
military pressing is just a standing barbell shoulder press

leaning-forward dips are just dips, but you're learning forward. This is done by tucking your head down into your chest - doing that provides the natural lean (you don't want to exagerrate the lean). SO basically if you know how to dip, it's just tuck the head into your chest and you're leaning-forward. More chest involvement
-----------

If your arn't making any progress at all, then stop all barbell pressing exercises that arn't progressing and switch them up for something else. Come back to them in 4-6weeks. Sometimes body needs a break from a lift for a while.

---------

Keep in mind though that a lot of that video, and other videos by Tate, are powerlifting form (although a lot does transfer into "regular" benching, like tight core, drive with the legs, etc...). For example, in another one he talks about the line of the bench and shortening it, to go from ~18'' total ROM to 10''. In powerlifting that's going to be critical to move more weight; in bodybuilding, eh, not so much so.





Originally posted by liquidboi69

People aren't talking about the "bounce" because your chest is 'bouncy' only.

Your muscles are actually stretchy and bouncy like an elastic band. If you go down and up fast, you stimulate something called a stretch reflex. If you pause for a second on the chest/don't bounce, then you don't exploit this. It is also safer for your shoulders.

Same works for squats. That is why when people do vertical jump tests, they squat down fast and then come up fast.

I found that pause benching, and not exploiting the stretch reflex really helped develop my off the chest strength Graham. You may have to use less weight at first if you don't already do this, but in the end it will help.

pause pressing is truly a great way to build explosive strength off the chest :thumbsup:

Graham_A_M
10-06-2009, 06:48 PM
Big thanks guys. That should be tons to improve on. I do dips already, just not with the head tucked. Thanks for the heads up.


Originally posted by lint


You haven't watched the Dave Tate video yet, have you?

No, :rofl: I'm assuming I'd be schooled if I did? I could use some four-letter-word enlightenment I guess. ;)

lint
10-06-2009, 08:34 PM
Originally posted by Graham_A_M
No, :rofl: I'm assuming I'd be schooled if I did? I could use some four-letter-word enlightenment I guess. ;)

Just that his form tweaks involve things like shortening the distance the bar has to travel, what you consider an incomplete rep. It's not so much that you'll be 60lbs stronger, just that you can official put up 60 more lbs and still call it a bench press. However his technique should also help to prevent injuries when benching. Watch it and form your own opinions.

2EFNFAST
10-07-2009, 12:15 AM
Originally posted by lint


Just that his form tweaks involve things like shortening the distance the bar has to travel, what you consider an incomplete rep. It's not so much that you'll be 60lbs stronger, just that you can official put up 60 more lbs and still call it a bench press. However his technique should also help to prevent injuries when benching. Watch it and form your own opinions.

His technique is for powerlifting, but yea, the general principles remain the same for general weightlifting to avoid injury - back/shoulders tucked, tight core, legs driven into the ground to serve as a base of power.

hattonlynch
10-07-2009, 09:56 AM
damn you're weak. it took you 7 years to be able to lift like 165 lbs? maybe you dont work hard enough.

or just get those secondary muscles stronger. Do some DB presses and superset that with some tricep work. In fact you should probably do anything but bench press and youre bench will probably go up. its also probably a mental thing.

dandia89
10-07-2009, 10:09 AM
Originally posted by hattonlynch
damn you're weak. it took you 7 years to be able to lift like 165 lbs? maybe you dont work hard enough.


it didn't take him 7 years to reach that. re-read it, he's clearly plateaued

5hift
10-07-2009, 10:31 AM
I'm surprised no one said this yet.

If you posted on a weightlifting specific forum, everyone would first ask to see your diet, and then say eat more.

lint
10-07-2009, 10:36 AM
Originally posted by dandia89


it didn't take him 7 years to reach that. re-read it, he's clearly plateaued

You need to re-read. Op stated he's been lifting for 7-8 years and his other lifts have increased while his bench has not. Of course he's plateaued, but it's still taken 7-8 years and he's still not over that hump.

scboss
10-07-2009, 12:12 PM
single arm dumbell press and different types of push ups should do the trick

hattonlynch
10-07-2009, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by dandia89


it didn't take him 7 years to reach that. re-read it, he's clearly plateaued
no shit sherlock. i still think he needs to work harder and get in some more secondary exercises.

cjay^
10-07-2009, 05:33 PM
Originally posted by hattonlynch
damn you're weak. it took you 7 years to be able to lift like 165 lbs? maybe you dont work hard enough.

or just get those secondary muscles stronger. Do some DB presses and superset that with some tricep work. In fact you should probably do anything but bench press and youre bench will probably go up. its also probably a mental thing.

Talk about encouraging words for the OP :nut: 165lbs is still above average in my books.

I do agree with the second part of your post though, I would try different exercises like DB presses and flyes (try incline, decline and flat for each) and try adding push ups to the end of your work out when you are too tired to bench any significant weight, but still feel like you have some energy left. When you do push ups start with your hands close together, and as you complete each set spread them apart so you work different areas of the chest.

hattonlynch
10-07-2009, 05:55 PM
Originally posted by cjay^


Talk about encouraging words for the OP :nut: 165lbs is still above average in my books.

I do agree with the second part of your post though, I would try different exercises like DB presses and flyes (try incline, decline and flat for each) and try adding push ups to the end of your work out when you are too tired to bench any significant weight, but still feel like you have some energy left. When you do push ups start with your hands close together, and as you complete each set spread them apart so you work different areas of the chest.
i dont think his chest is the problem if hes been benching for a while. he probably neglects the secondary muscles that aid the bench press.

Redlined_8000
10-07-2009, 05:57 PM
Hey OP

First thing, can you post a day of what a general upper body chest workout looks like? And how often you do it?

second, how is your diet? How much protein do you eat a day?

What is your height/weight? Do you squat or deadlift?

wintonyk
10-07-2009, 06:01 PM
I hit a plateau a few years ago with my bench as well. I was stuck at 185 for close to 6 months. What I did to help break through was drop sets.

Every second week, with dumbbells I would do 2 sets of this during a chest workout.

Starting with a weight you can do 12 reps (for myself i did)
12 (70lbs) drop fail(55 lbs) drop fail(40lbs)

This just blasts your chest and causes a ton of blood flow. I would usually do this at the beginning of a chest day.

But the most important thing to do is to keep your body guessing. I seldomly do the same workout for more then 2 weeks. And I am always playing with the weight to push myself further. Through doing this and once every 2nd month a would do pure negatives. There has been some studies that found that the negative portion of a muscle movement will support more muscle growth.

Times have changed though and I am just getting back into "normal workouts" from doing crossfit. And my 2rep max used to be 275. Right now I am no where near that. But by adding even as little as 2 lbs and adding forced reps in from time to time go can a long way to help increase your maxes.

I have yet to go to a gym where someone refuses to lend a spot. So even if you don't have a workout buddy there is ways to get a spotter

Graham_A_M
10-07-2009, 07:38 PM
Originally posted by hattonlynch
damn you're weak. it took you 7 years to be able to lift like 165 lbs? maybe you dont work hard enough.

I've been able to do 165ish since the second year I ever worked out. Problem is: I've been stuck at that, hence this thread.
Everything else Im quite strong at. At all of these I do 5 reps and three-four sets: but I can do a full plate on the preachers bench, do 14 plates at the seated decline leg press machine, when doing dips I have a full plate strapped to me.... (etc) :dunno:
Im just having a very difficult time with the chest, nothing more. I dont know whats the cause of it though... as of now (thanks to this thread) I know proper form and differing exercises.


For diet & routine, I usually just hit the gym once, sometimes twice a week. In that I do
-chest, then arms, upper back, abs, squats. Then thats it.
Sometimes more of a variety of other exercises, if I go twice a week.
Diet? just Creatine. No protein or anything else. Apparently I eat like a frickin' pig most people tell me. :rofl:
I'm 6ft and wiegh 180 or so... give or take a few.

Anything else you guys would recommend besides creatine?

2EFNFAST
10-07-2009, 08:15 PM
Originally posted by Graham_A_M

Diet? just Creatine. No protein or anything else. Apparently I eat like a frickin' pig most people tell me. :rofl:
I'm 6ft and wiegh 180 or so... give or take a few.

Anything else you guys would recommend besides creatine?

You need protein. Lots of protein.

I usually buy from trueprotein.com - very high quality whey isolate.

Also, record your diet for a few days, doing a rough calorie, and protein count. A lot of people say they're "eating a lot" but when they actually write it down adn start counting it's shit.

I usually eat 3500-4000calories/day, about 300-350g protein.

liquidboi69
10-07-2009, 08:17 PM
Man so many haters in this thread. He's not asking for a critique on his strength, he's asking on how to get better.

At least he has the right attitude, to try to find out what he's doing wrong. Give the guy a break.

I recommend eating a lot of protein, and maybe upping the intensity. Like many people have said, doing a powerlifting type routine. I notice that you already do 4-6 reps. Make sure you warm up with the bar a few times, then a plate for ~2 reps. Then start your workout. Start your workout with bench, where you know you can put 100% into it.

Working out is not always about muscle, it's half neural half muscle, and both are maintained by rest and healthy foods. So try to make sure you warm up, eat healthy, and try to stay positive/not stressed.

Here are some BENCH exercises that you can cycle through when you platau on the certain exercise:

Off the chest:
-Pause bench
-Wide grip bench press
-Decline bench (I know you consider this a half rep, but it really works the shoulder imo and that may help with off the chest strength)
-Military/shoulder presses

Lockout:
-Rack lockouts
-Board presses
-JM press
-Close grip bench press (index finger ~1inch away from smooth part)

Identify where you fail, do an exercise that will improve that area. When you plateau, move onto another one. On supplementary things like "arms", do the area where you are weak.

To sum up:
-PROPER FORM (pause bench! SEE DAVE TATE VIDEO but exclude reducing the ROM)
-Warm up properly
-If you want to get stronger, do a strength/powerlifting routine
-Eat enough protein, get enough rest
-Try to identify weak spot, and work on said weak spot (shoulders/pecs for off the chest, triceps for lockout)

hattonlynch
10-07-2009, 08:24 PM
Originally posted by Graham_A_M
I've been able to do 165ish since the second year I ever worked out. Problem is: I've been stuck at that, hence this thread.
Everything else Im quite strong at. At all of these I do 5 reps and three-four sets: but I can do a full plate on the preachers bench, do 14 plates at the seated decline leg press machine, when doing dips I have a full plate strapped to me.... (etc) :dunno:
Im just having a very difficult time with the chest, nothing more. I dont know whats the cause of it though... as of now (thanks to this thread) I know proper form and differing exercises.


For diet & routine, I usually just hit the gym once, sometimes twice a week. In that I do
-chest, then arms, upper back, abs, squats. Then thats it.
Sometimes more of a variety of other exercises, if I go twice a week.
Diet? just Creatine. No protein or anything else. Apparently I eat like a frickin' pig most people tell me. :rofl:
I'm 6ft and wiegh 180 or so... give or take a few.

Anything else you guys would recommend besides creatine?
hah i see bro...well do you keep the same routine? look up westside training, that definitely makes you stronger + thicker.

I think I puked a little in my mouth when you mentioned "14 plates at leg press" lol. I hate when people actually think that exercise is actually good and means you have strong legs

liquidboi69
10-07-2009, 08:29 PM
As for supplements, none of them really work compared to just simple hard work. I've tried:

BCAAs, EAAs, Creatine, Glutamine, Protein, Pre-pumps, caffeine pills. Seriously...the only thing you need is a healthy diet. If you don't have the money to eat enough meat, then buy protein. The rest don't really do anything (maybe caffeine) for strength imo...the most gains I made (in the summer) was when I decided to not take anything, and just to make sure I ate healthy to compensate for that.

I can't even work out to my full intensity when I take creatine cause I cramp (even when drinking tonnes.) Supplements are a crutch/can potentially limit you. People will take supplements instead of changing their diets/intensity/mindset, it really is the last thing they should be doing.

And as for said above, leg press isn't really a good measure of strength.

The most important/best measure of strength are the big 3 or 5's (squat, bench, dead, military press, cleans [Mark Rippetoe debatable]) Do them, and do them with good form.

hattonlynch
10-07-2009, 08:44 PM
Originally posted by liquidboi69
As for supplements, none of them really work compared to just simple hard work. I've tried:

BCAAs, EAAs, Creatine, Glutamine, Protein, Pre-pumps, caffeine pills. Seriously...the only thing you need is a healthy diet. If you don't have the money to eat enough meat, then buy protein (which you already do.) The rest don't really do anything (maybe caffeine) for strength imo...the most gains I made (in the summer) was when I decided to not take anything, and just to make sure I ate healthy to compensate for that.

I can't even work out to my full intensity when I take creatine cause I cramp (even when drinking tonnes.) Supplements are a crutch/can potentially limit you. People will take supplements instead of changing their diets/intensity/mindset, it really is the last thing they should be doing.

And as for said above, leg press isn't really a good measure of strength.

The most important/best measure of strength are the big 3 or 5's (squat, bench, dead, military press, cleans [Mark Rippetoe debatable]) Do them, and do them with good form.
Real talk right here. I'm not huge (6'4 230) but I have a decent amount of muscle and my best gains have come from simply eating a shit load of high protein foods (chicken breast) and CLEAN. No bullshit sugary, salty foods, just good clean. Sadly, those days are long over because its too hard to keep that up long lol. I have a buddy who was sick for a week because he was stacking all these supplements that ended up fucking him in the ass.

As for leg press, it should seriously be banned. Such a stupid exercise. Squats are great if you actually do them right. 95% of gym goers do them wrong.

But I'm just ranting, don't mind me.

KRyn
10-07-2009, 08:50 PM
Originally posted by hattonlynch

I have a buddy who was sick for a week because he was stacking all these supplements that ended up fucking him in the ass.

O'rly? Please explain.

hattonlynch
10-07-2009, 08:56 PM
Originally posted by KRyn


O'rly? Please explain.

Didnt even realize I said that gem. No but he was stacking Nitric Oxide, Protein, White Flood, and 2 others and after 3 weeks of taking like 7-8 pills a day he was sick for about a week. he doesn't normally get sick either. funny thing was, he literally didnt gain shit that whole summer. and he was working out everyday and taking every supplement known to man.

lint
10-07-2009, 09:13 PM
you can do weighted dips with 45lbs? This is sounding more like technique problems than strength.

Oz-
10-07-2009, 09:30 PM
Easiest things that you can change up is your technique, but you might regress a bit until you understand the 50 million things that need to happen with the bench. Personally I find it the more technical of the big 3 lifts.

Another is to warm up properly and prime your CNS.

There is a good article that I posted in a thread many months ago. People look at me all weird when I start warming up with the bar, but that is ego if you let it affect you. Take the time to be deliberate in your warmup and your CNS will be ready to really lift weight. My warmups for squats and deadlifts take more then 10 minutes normally, before I even get to my work sets but my progress speaks for itself.

http://forums.beyond.ca/st/213442/article-how-to-warm-up/

hattonlynch
10-07-2009, 09:33 PM
Originally posted by Oz-
Easiest things that you can change up is your technique, but you might regress a bit until you understand the 50 million things that need to happen with the bench. Personally I find it the more technical of the big 3 lifts.

Another is to warm up properly and prime your CNS.

There is a good article that I posted in a thread many months ago. People look at me all weird when I start warming up with the bar, but that is ego if you let it affect you. Take the time to be deliberate in your warmup and your CNS will be ready to really lift weight. My warmups for squats and deadlifts take more then 10 minutes normally, before I even get to my work sets but my progress speaks for itself.

http://forums.beyond.ca/st/213442/article-how-to-warm-up/
do you do a different warmup then your actual working set? I'm a big guy and I cant bench as much as someone my size should and it must be technique to me. My deadlift and squats are both very solid but I cannot bench that heavy. Someone was telling me to do a bunch of situps and warmup the core before you bench and it will shoot up like 10 lbs? wives tale, or is there some truth?

Oz-
10-07-2009, 09:38 PM
Originally posted by hattonlynch

do you do a different warmup then your actual working set? I'm a big guy and I cant bench as much as someone my size should and it must be technique to me. My deadlift and squats are both very solid but I cannot bench that heavy. Someone was telling me to do a bunch of situps and warmup the core before you bench and it will shoot up like 10 lbs? wives tale, or is there some truth?

There are 2 "warmups" that I do, one is to get the "blood flowing" type of thing and that is just getting the body warmed up. Then I move to the weights for warmup but for my primary lift (deadlift/squat/bench/military press) of the day, that is really just priming the CNS to be able to lift the weight in my worksets.

hattonlynch
10-07-2009, 11:22 PM
christ there's some bad advice in this forum.

to op:
you lift twice a week, you probably eat like shit, and by that i mean you need to EAT more if you want your lifts to go up. step it up to 3-4 times a week, eat more protein/carbs and vuallah, bench will go up.

also, you've been lifting for 8 years and you're bragging about a leg press lift, lol. your dips are somewhat impressive but fuck it, you probably have no "real" strenght. squat, deadlift, bench press. do bill starrs 5x5 system, not the pussy ass shit you currently do and you'll gain some serious strength.

KRyn
10-07-2009, 11:30 PM
Originally posted by hattonlynch
christ there's some bad advice in this forum.

to op:
you lift twice a week, you probably eat like shit, and by that i mean you need to EAT more if you want your lifts to go up. step it up to 3-4 times a week, eat more protein/carbs and vuallah, bench will go up.

also, you've been lifting for 8 years and you're bragging about a leg press lift, lol. your dips are somewhat impressive but fuck it, you probably have no "real" strenght. squat, deadlift, bench press. do bill starrs 5x5 system, not the pussy ass shit you currently do and you'll gain some serious strength.

You sure so talk a lot, what are you 1 RM for deadlift, squat and bench? Why all the hate, this guy asks for advice and you cut him down. Then you start spewing bile about how your chump friend gets sick and blames it on the supplements.

hattonlynch
10-07-2009, 11:36 PM
Originally posted by KRyn


You sure so talk a lot, what are you 1 RM for deadlift, squat and bench? Why all the hate, this guy asks for advice and you cut him down. Then you start spewing bile about how your chump friend gets sick and blames it on the supplements.

455 DL
225 BP
315 Squat

.....

and i'm 6'4'' 230 lbs, so those lifts are some big ass ROM's for me.

but anyways, my advice is legit. the easiest answer is he simply has to EAT more and not work out twice a week. Twice a week you should expect MODEST gains, not good gains, MODEST. something tells me he also does a bunch of cardio too at the end of his workout. wouldn't suprise me. but his dips are fairly impressive i must say.

EDIT - christ i just looked at his program. he basically does a full body workout once, or twice a week. no wonder he's not gaining.

TurboD
10-07-2009, 11:41 PM
Might be just me, but I've always looked at dips as a stretching exercise that warms up your shoulders, triceps and elbows.

To me, stacking too much weight on dips is a good way to either injure yourself if you fail, or strain your collar bone area or elbows.

could be wrong, but that's just my own bias.

scboss
10-08-2009, 03:06 AM
Originally posted by hattonlynch
christ there's some bad advice in this forum.

to op:
you lift twice a week, you probably eat like shit, and by that i mean you need to EAT more if you want your lifts to go up. step it up to 3-4 times a week, eat more protein/carbs and vuallah, bench will go up.

also, you've been lifting for 8 years and you're bragging about a leg press lift, lol. your dips are somewhat impressive but fuck it, you probably have no "real" strenght. squat, deadlift, bench press. do bill starrs 5x5 system, not the pussy ass shit you currently do and you'll gain some serious strength.

i think telling someone to do the 5x5 and telling them there routine is some pussy shit is the dumbest advice ive ever heard. None of my friends have ever done the 5x5 and im sure its great but we all have crazy gains over the last couple years. As long as your form is good and you are always mixing it up you WILL gain no matter what. I took one month off bench and did the perfect push up routine and my bench went up like crazy now im benching 80 pound dumbells 10 reps 4 sets and before it was around 60. I would say get someone to check your form and start taking your protien within 20 min of the end of your workout. Also dont be afraid to ask people at the gym for a spot!

scboss
10-08-2009, 03:11 AM
Originally posted by TurboD
Might be just me, but I've always looked at dips as a stretching exercise that warms up your shoulders, triceps and elbows.

To me, stacking too much weight on dips is a good way to either injure yourself if you fail, or strain your collar bone area or elbows.

could be wrong, but that's just my own bias.

I find dips to be one of the best tricep excersices available, and with all things you should always increase the weight. If you dont lock out at the bottom or top of your movement then you will never get injured. Doing this will help increase your decline bench like crazy!!!!

timdog
10-08-2009, 11:25 AM
i don't care how strong or 'good' he is ... Dave Tate is a douche bag.

5hift
10-08-2009, 12:40 PM
Originally posted by Graham_A_M

For diet & routine, I usually just hit the gym once, sometimes twice a week. In that I do
-chest, then arms, upper back, abs, squats. Then thats it.
Sometimes more of a variety of other exercises, if I go twice a week.
Diet? just Creatine. No protein or anything else. Apparently I eat like a frickin' pig most people tell me. :rofl:
I'm 6ft and wiegh 180 or so... give or take a few.

Anything else you guys would recommend besides creatine?

This is your problem right here. First off your not benching nearly enough per week.

And your response to my question about diet is creatine and protein is surprising. Your response to diet should be estimates of calories with basic macro breakdowns. You should at least know how much protein your taking in daily.

What you eat is just as responsible for your gains as what you do in the gym.

You haven't gotten your workout plan or diet down, yet your reaching for supplements for a boost. Not trying to criticize but you should work on getting these down first, you'll be surprised with the gains.

89coupe
10-08-2009, 02:33 PM
3 sets of 5, thats it, thats all.

Warm your muscles up then go right to the heaviest possible weight you can bench for 5 reps. Do this with a straight bar free weights.

If you don't have a spotter, use a smith machine.

Don't change the weight, stick with it for the 3 sets, if you can't do 5, do 4 reps or 3.

Work 3 groups, flat, decline, incline.

Work your chest two days a week, the 2nd day use dumbells instead of a bar.

You will notice results fast, I promise! The key is push yourself hard, don't be a pussy! That and eat well and healthy!

Good Luck!

Graham_A_M
10-08-2009, 06:41 PM
Thanks guys. I sure seem to have opened a can of worms with this thread.
Hatton_lynch, I squat two plates, I did just didn't mention that. :dunno: Yeah the only machine exercise I do is the seated decline press.... everything else is freeweights or dumb-bell.
Yes I warm up for 5-6 min on the bike keeping my heart rate above 140, then move onto stretching, so yeah thats helped a lot.
Im a bit pressed for time, but thanks a lot for the help & advice. I'll read everything later (rather then skim through it) and probably have some questions to ask. Thanks.

:)

hattonlynch
10-08-2009, 06:58 PM
squat 2 plates (225) and leg press 7 plates a side. lol lol, your workouts are crazy flawed bro.

2EFNFAST
10-08-2009, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by hattonlynch

me.
but anyways, my advice is legit. the easiest answer is he simply has to EAT more and not work out twice a week. Twice a week you should expect MODEST gains, not good gains, MODEST.


That's not true. I do quite well training twice a week(M/R), and prefer to it 3-4x because I have more free time to myself (not always thinking about training/eating). My strength gains are just as good as when I used to train 3-4x. Perhaps you'd care to pick apart my workout and tell me how it's impossible to do good gains on it:

(R) (I'm listing today first because i remember what weights I used, lol)

exercise set 1 weight @ set 1 reps ; set 2 weight @ set 2 reps

close-grip bench: [email protected] ; [email protected]

hammer (neutral grip) chins: bodyweight(bw)[email protected] ; [email protected]

seated db press: [email protected] ; 80 @10

cable row:* [email protected] ; [email protected]

flat db press: [email protected] ; [email protected]

2-arm palms forward db curl superset pressdown: [email protected] s-set [email protected] ; [email protected] s-set [email protected]

leaning-forward dip (no weight) s-set "wide"-grip chin (no weght) : [email protected] s-set [email protected]

*normally I do 1-arm db row, but my forearm is being bothered by it lately so I'm taking it easy and doing cable rows instead

M
chin-up: [email protected] ; [email protected]

leaning-forward dips: [email protected] ; bw+115 @9

bent over bb rows: 270 @ 5 ; 250 @ 7

incline db press: 105 @10 ; 105 @ 10

standing bb curl superset seated incline bb extension: [email protected] sset [email protected] ; [email protected] sset [email protected]

"wide" grip chin sset reverse-grip close-grip floor press: [email protected] sset [email protected]

unweighted leaning-forward dips: [email protected]


aside from the fact I don't train legs or leg related stuff (Deadlifting/rack pull/etc...) and dont' do trap work anymore (I count carrying around heavy ass dbs as enough work :D ) perhaps you'd care to tell me how I can't have good gains, only modest gains, doing that 2x/week.







Originally posted by TurboD
Might be just me, but I've always looked at dips as a stretching exercise that warms up your shoulders, triceps and elbows.

To me, stacking too much weight on dips is a good way to either injure yourself if you fail, or strain your collar bone area or elbows.

could be wrong, but that's just my own bias.

dips are a great overall upper body movement.

once you start adding weight, they go into a league of their own. My working sets are bodyweight (185ish) plus 150lbs attached, usually finish my workouts with unweighted dips for 25reps or so. ..... there's a world difference between doing [email protected] versus 25reps at 185.

as long as you follow a natural ROM (i.e., not trying to force yourself to go too low, thinking lower = better) you'll be fine.

Several years ago I banged up my sternum pretty good - I dropped 270lbs on myself from almost full lockout - I was using a thumbless grip (stupid) and lost control of the bar. It hurt. My sternum hurt and kept hurting like hell for almost a year, but several years later I'm able to dip with +150lbs attached with no problems. If it were going to injure your sternum, I think I'd be a prime candidate for that with my past injury.

hattonlynch
10-08-2009, 07:23 PM
Originally posted by 2EFNFAST


That's not true. I do quite well training twice a week(M/R), and prefer to it 3-4x because I have more free time to myself (not always thinking about training/eating). My strength gains are just as good as when I used to train 3-4x. Perhaps you'd care to pick apart my workout and tell me how it's impossible to do good gains on it:

(R) (I'm listing today first because i remember what weights I used, lol)

exercise set 1 weight @ set 1 reps ; set 2 weight @ set 2 reps

close-grip bench: [email protected] ; [email protected]

hammer (neutral grip) chins: bodyweight(bw)[email protected] ; [email protected]

seated db press: [email protected] ; 80 @10

cable row:* [email protected] ; [email protected]

flat db press: [email protected] ; [email protected]

2-arm palms forward db curl superset pressdown: [email protected] s-set [email protected] ; [email protected] s-set [email protected]

leaning-forward dip (no weight) s-set "wide"-grip chin (no weght) : [email protected] s-set [email protected]

*normally I do 1-arm db row, but my forearm is being bothered by it lately so I'm taking it easy and doing cable rows instead

M
chin-up: [email protected] ; [email protected]

leaning-forward dips: [email protected] ; bw+115 @9

bent over bb rows: 270 @ 5 ; 250 @ 7

incline db press: 105 @10 ; 105 @ 10

standing bb curl superset seated incline bb extension: [email protected] sset [email protected] ; [email protected] sset [email protected]

"wide" grip chin sset reverse-grip close-grip floor press: [email protected] sset [email protected]

unweighted leaning-forward dips: [email protected]


aside from the fact I don't train legs or leg related stuff (Deadlifting/rack pull/etc...) and dont' do trap work anymore (I count carrying around heavy ass dbs as enough work :D ) perhaps you'd care to tell me how I can't have good gains, only modest gains, doing that 2x/week.








dips are a great overall upper body movement.

once you start adding weight, they go into a league of their own. My working sets are bodyweight (185ish) plus 150lbs attached, usually finish my workouts with unweighted dips for 25reps or so. ..... there's a world difference between doing [email protected] versus 25reps at 185.

as long as you follow a natural ROM (i.e., not trying to force yourself to go too low, thinking lower = better) you'll be fine.

Several years ago I banged up my sternum pretty good - I dropped 270lbs on myself from almost full lockout - I was using a thumbless grip (stupid) and lost control of the bar. It hurt. My sternum hurt and kept hurting like hell for almost a year, but several years later I'm able to dip with +150lbs attached with no problems. If it were going to injure your sternum, I think I'd be a prime candidate for that with my past injury.

congratulations if it works for you. i doubt it does however, lets see your pic. you have heavy volume.

but guess what buddy, if you worked out FOUR times a week you would see better results. bottom line. i don't even know why you're trying to debate this.

and you don't even squat or deadlift. your doing a bunch of secondary excercises. program fail is fail.

2EFNFAST
10-08-2009, 07:44 PM
Originally posted by hattonlynch


congratulations if it works for you. i doubt it does however, lets see your pic. you have heavy volume.

but guess what buddy, if you worked out FOUR times a week you would see better results. bottom line. i don't even know why you're trying to debate this.

and you don't even squat or deadlift. your doing a bunch of secondary excercises. program fail is fail.

I wouldn't call that heavy volume. Basically 2sets, heavy compounds 4-6 / 7-10 ; lighter loads at 7-10 / 7-10. I'm done in 45minutes.

I fail :cry:

When I was 110lbs (17yrs old)

http://i708.photobucket.com/albums/ww89/efnfast/aj1.jpg

2mths ago (26)
http://i708.photobucket.com/albums/ww89/efnfast/me5.jpg

A few weeks ago (yes, I need a haircut again, go away :p ; 185-190lbs) (26)

http://i708.photobucket.com/albums/ww89/efnfast/me7.jpg

When I trained more religiously I used to be 230 (so another 40lbs heavier), but last year I had an infection that almost killed me and brought me down to 170 (even though I was eating like 6000cal/day to try to maintain, despite how sick I was). Yes, yes, I know, no excuses, after my body shutting down and almost dying how dare I not return to training hardcore. But ya know what, I learned how insidious weightlifting is at that time - it slowly takes over your life to the point where you do nothing but 'eat', 'think of eating', 'train', 'think of training'. It's much easier on the body/mind to do it 2x/week than 3-5x. I could punch back up to 230 by increasing my diet again, but I don't want to go back to my old life.

Yes, yes, again, I know, pussy excuses. Your turn; picture please.

Graham_A_M
10-09-2009, 06:37 PM
^ You got *Monster* arms & shoulders for a guy your wieght.
Your biceps & Delts are about three times my size.

ANyway, I did the same technique as that Dave Tate did in that video: abiet at a lower weight (shits hard man :rofl: )
So we'll see. Eating much better and will be getting protein this weekend (as well as hitting the gym 2-4 times a week.) Thanks a lot to everybody that chimed in, greatly appreciated.

Hatton_lynch, I meant two plates per side, for a total of 4 plates X three sets of 8 on the squat.
:dunno:

liquidboi69
10-09-2009, 06:39 PM
It's hard cause you have improper form programmed into you, since you haven't been doing any of that for 8 years probably. Most people don't know how important having a tight core and tucking shoulders is.

Are you pause benching? Keep at it until you change your bench habbit. GL

2EFNFAST
10-09-2009, 11:29 PM
Originally posted by Graham_A_M
^ You got *Monster* arms & shoulders for a guy your wieght.
Your biceps & Delts are about three times my size.

ANyway, I did the same technique as that Dave Tate did in that video: abiet at a lower weight (shits hard man :rofl: )
So we'll see. Eating much better and will be getting protein this weekend (as well as hitting the gym 2-4 times a week.) Thanks a lot to everybody that chimed in, greatly appreciated.

Hatton_lynch, I meant two plates per side, for a total of 4 plates X three sets of 8 on the squat.
:dunno:

Oh sure, ignore my triceps....now they feel left out :cry:

Notice how our favorite friend hasn't written back yet, hehe. I get a kick out of him - program fail; you're just doing a bunch of secondary exercises. Yep, dipping with 150lbs attached or chin-ups with almost 100lbs attached is the same as doing db kickbacks, hehe :devil:


For a week (it's a pain in the ass, but you really do need a base point) record your diet and rough calorie/protein amounts. I have yet to meet one person who thinks they're "Eating a lot of calories and protein, and eating properly" and actually are - most are over-guestimating their net consumption by upwards of 50% at times! By putting it down on paper as you do it, you may (or may not) be in for a surpise.

I've always felt supps. are a waste and a potential health risk (depending on what you're taking and how much) but I recommend you buy some whey powder (isolate, not concenrate - isolate is higher quality, more protein and better tolerated in most people than concentrate is). 1 scoop (~25-30g of protein depending on product) is roughly equal to 1 can of tuna. Just don't be crazy like some people and take 18scoops a day; it's good for extra protein, but your best source is meats/fish/etc...

Graham_A_M
10-10-2009, 10:22 AM
^ "Arms" meaning both... but yeah.

Alright sure starting today, like what 5shift mentioned I'll keep track of everything I can and post up here.

KRyn
10-10-2009, 11:26 AM
Originally posted by hattonlynch


455 DL
225 BP
315 Squat

.....

and i'm 6'4'' 230 lbs, so those lifts are some big ass ROM's for me.


You are 6'4, 230lbs of rank ass pussy. By the sounds of it you should re-evaluate the way you are working out. Your lifts are dismal for some one of your size. I like how you are trying to give advice on bench when your bench is hardly over 1.5 plates. I would put money on it you are one of the guys that squats 4" deep.



Originally posted by 2EFNFAST

Notice how our favorite friend hasn't written back yet, hehe. I get a kick out of him


2EFNFAST you really are a bully! Stop picking fun of the mentally challenged man!

2EFNFAST
10-10-2009, 12:18 PM
Originally posted by KRyn


2EFNFAST you really are a bully! Stop picking fun of the mentally challenged man!

I sawwwy :cry:

Graham_A_M
10-10-2009, 01:14 PM
Yeah the last couple of pages of this thread alone is similar to the ego's and personalities I see quite often at the gym

scboss
10-10-2009, 02:21 PM
Originally posted by Graham_A_M
Yeah the last couple of pages of this thread alone is similar to the ego's and personalities I see quite often at the gym

yeah man i second this, in the end we are all working out for the same reason so there is no reason to be a bitch about it

2EFNFAST
10-15-2009, 09:34 PM
Have you written down 3-4days worth of diet to figure out rough calorie and protein intake?

LKL
10-16-2009, 04:53 AM
if you've been stuck on a lift for a while and you're not making gains you're doing something wrong

drop the lift from your program completely for 12 weeks and make gains on other chest exercises, then return to it with a different set and rep scheme

if you actually feel weird about not bb benching for 12 weeks, you have bigger problems

2EFNFAST
10-26-2009, 12:13 AM
*poke poke* Did you record your diet yet?

I did for the last 2 days out of curiousity (it's been a while since I've done it)

Figured out (roughly, I'm not going super anal over this) I'm taking in roughly 4100calories and 436g of protein.

Good thing my kidneys are in proper working order :rofl:

JordanEG6
10-28-2009, 11:28 AM
Hmm...I don't know if this has been mentioned already, but your body is getting used to it. Trying hopping on light weights for a couple weeks. Lots of super sets and hi-carb intake, then shock the muscles and go heavy again another couple weeks. Confuse your muscles. Worked for me. :)

Graham_A_M
11-07-2009, 07:15 PM
whoah I forgot to update this thread. Shit...
:banghead: I do have everything written down, I'll post it up tommorow when I have the chance.

Thanks for the heads up.

DOH!