Garage doors - if you're still planning that garage...

[AndyL]

Going to tease some of you building garages :) Yes cellphone pics / vids not high quality - but you get the general idea.

This was my weekend project; owner of this place chose wisely, and followed my suggestions.

16x8 Steelcraft T12 (ok I didn't like this - but it was part of the garage package), running a bit of highlift (vertical travel before rolling back), then follows the pitch of the scissor trusses. Operator is a Liftmaster 3800 Jackshaft.

(For those getting technical - yep no weatherstrip... Friggin steelcraft - package says 16x8 right on it but has 7' sides :banghead: )

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i277/cgyreefer/doors/1012091350b.jpg

Can't tell but the floors actually close to 1 1/2" out of level at its worst; cheated the door (headshaft is level) to pick up most of it.

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i277/cgyreefer/doors/1012091349a.jpg
Gotta love all that room!

Video - love that 3800 - quiet as heck; makes that clunk-clunk of rollers transitioning sound ridiculously loud.
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i277/cgyreefer/doors/th_1012091348a.jpg (http://s74.photobucket.com/albums/i277/cgyreefer/doors/?action=view&current=1012091348a.flv)

Yes this is one way to fit a hoist in the garage :)

No - it doesn't come cheap...

[redevil]

so do you build garages or just install garage doors?

[boxer23]

I was wondering if you would happen to know how to take off paint from a wooden garage door. I have a wooden garage door that is painted over. I was wondering whats the best possible way/easiest way to get rid of the paint so I can varnish and sand to show off the wood.

Also if you build garages would you also know how much height should there be at a minimum in order to incorporate a lift?

[AndyL]

Not a framer - technically not a door guy anymore (but I do still work in the industry). I do like to prove to myself I can still do it; and get hands-on knowledge of the new gear every now and then...

Don't assume that since your door is wood - that it can be stained... There's a stain grade for a reason. You may find what's underneath isn't something you'd want on the front of your house... If it's a true residential wood panel door - you may find that it's particle board or similar on the panels (area at the center of the section bordered by styles/top & bottom rails).

More height is better, 9' eave with scissor trusses makes it easier - but you'd never get a truck on the hoist... (By the way - never ask the framer/builder - they put em up all the time then the door guy gets left to figure out how it can possibly be made to work - they never ask us what we can do - they just figure we can work around whatever they throw up)

[NickGT]

I'm having a 3800 jackshaft operator + high lift hardware installed in the new baywest home I'm building as well. It's gonna be so sweet. I'll have like 10ft of clearance (at the lowest point ) inside the garage that way. I spoke with the door company personally so they know what i expect and they say its very do-able based on my plans.

It's something nobody ever thinks about. Hell I wasn't even thinking about it until I walked through another similar house that was under construction and noticed how shitty it was having a low hanging door. It really is the best way to free up as much space as possible whether the door is up or down.

[FiveFreshFish]

Originally posted by AndyL
16x8 Steelcraft T12 (ok I didn't like this - but it was part of the garage package)

Too bad he wasn't able to upgrade to a wider door in lieu of what's given in the package. This garage is big enough for an 18' door, maybe even a 20' door.

[AndyL]

Garage would handle a lot wider yet (there's a good 6' on each side of the door)

But wider isn't always better; once you pass 18' really you're getting into a commercial door and costs start escalating exponentially... You start running out of 'residential' operators you can use; start getting into the mid range commercial stuff...

[TKRIS]

I have a ~11'-6" ceiling in my garage. Of course, they put a standard 16x8 door in, with 90* bends at the top. Any reason I couldn't get some lengths of straight track, and extend it up to the ceiling before going horizontal?
And now I'll illustrate with a gorgeous ansi representation:


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[AndyL]

Yep - there's a very good reason actually :)

All has to do with balance - you need correct springs & drum to properly counterbalance the weight of the door (and have it balance correctly all the way through). Anyone who tells you different and is going to make it work - will be doing you a great disservice.

In your scenario there's 3 options (in shell busey good better best format)

10' verticals, new drums, springs (standard lift), a dummy section (scratch & dent or similar - wont be seen - except from inside).

Swap out horizontals for 32" radius, new springs, drums, cables, puts the underside of the track up to ~10'. Need a longer trolley rail and longer j-arm. Alternatively I have ceiling mounted a couple openers back far enough to make an existing opener work... Usually better to just do it right...

Proper way - add a splice, bit more track, new springs, drums cables, swap that existing opener out for a jackshaft variety. And everything is wonderful...

[TKRIS]

Figures.
I wasn't sure if the torsion bar springs could be tightened enough to lift the door an extra 3'.

Looks like a jackshaft opener would be the easiest way to go.

[AndyL]

It's a little more than tightening them a bit - throws everything out when you do that - and the springs suddenly are only getting you ~4500 cycles vs 10,000... Then balance through full range is hot, and you start blowing opener gears apart...

[NickGT]

Don't forget an electrical outlet within 6ft of the jackshaft operator for power.

[FiveFreshFish]

Originally posted by AndyL
Garage would handle a lot wider yet (there's a good 6' on each side of the door)

But wider isn't always better; once you pass 18' really you're getting into a commercial door and costs start escalating exponentially... You start running out of 'residential' operators you can use; start getting into the mid range commercial stuff...

Yep, I've got an 18x7 door with a residential opener and my buddy has an 18x8. I only saw a 20' door once in a show home but didn't think to look at the opener.

[scat19]

This is why I can't wait to own a house!

I'd live in my garage.

[AndyL]

Theoretically - you could do even 30x10 with a standard residential opener... Strangely chamberlain/liftmaster no longer show 'max dimensions' - which i find REALLY odd, since commercially once you're past 22' wide you're supposed to be using a dual trolley system.. And a commercial opener makes a residential opener look well... puny :)

[thetransporter]

be like me and make a concrete garage.

[AndyL]

This weekends project...

From this - smacking a door into a camaro...
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i277/cgyreefer/doors/1017091033c.jpg

Instead we went through the shelf (yep through, carpenter cut a big honkin hole and reframed)
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i277/cgyreefer/doors/1017092045a.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i277/cgyreefer/doors/1017092045b.jpg

This is a true highlift scenario - had to do things a bit more commercial though - solid keyed shaft & 25,000 cycle springs. The springs put us over capacity on the tube shaft; had to go with a solid keyed shaft - Seen many of these done with a standard tube shaft; unfortunately that'll cost the homeowner in the end...

[AndyL]

Another one down :)

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i277/cgyreefer/doors/P101016021.jpg

This one kills me... Is it really that important to save 2$ by using a bushing instead of a proper bearing on a rotating assembly? Installer probably never noticed he crushed it while installing too -
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i277/cgyreefer/doors/P101016009.jpg
Used 2 bearings and did it the way it should be... (4 springs after conversion)
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i277/cgyreefer/doors/P101016014.jpg

5 more days then the real whoring begins :)

[AndyL]

Edit

[AndyL]

Today's fun...

Cheap way to make some space available above. Bit of pitch, not exactly the 'right' way to do things, but definitely more affordable :)

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i277/cgyreefer/doors/tims.jpg

[TomcoPDR]

Originally posted by AndyL
Bit of pitch, not exactly the 'right' way to do things,

What's the reason for having a pitch not the "right" way to do things? I am curious, as most average garage setups are level horizontal.

[AndyL]

Springs are calculated with the assumption the tracks are horizontal (well 1/8" / ft) - pitching like this with stock hardware, involves over winding the springs - I could work it out - probably lost about 2000 cycles (1/5th) off their life in this case. Throws the balance out a bit too... So is it 'right' - no, does it work - yes, but it does have it's trade-offs...

Ordering the door with the proper configuration - springs ordered to accommodate either a pitch like this or some highlift to the ceiling - doesn't cost that much when you get it ordered correctly with the door - costs a lot more to retrofit it later.

As an example - czar's door, would have cost about 180$ (wholesale) more to order it direct from the manufacturer mostly setup for his application... Just his new springs - ran 220$ - never mind the drums, cables, headplates, bearings, etc etc etc... And I might have upgraded the heck out of numerous things to bring them up to my standards :D

(edit)
Got offered a smokin deal - brand new (never installed) 9x7 T12 with some shipping damage - 300$ for the door - Totem sells em for 550 normally. Perfect for someone looking for an alley door :)
http://forums.beyond.ca/st/319181/fs-new-9x7-steelcraft-t12-garage-door-scratch-dent/
(/edit)

[roopi]

AndyL check PM.

[bspot]

My garage is already noticably warmer as the weather cools off thanks to the new door which still works perfectly. Good work Andy! :thumbsup:

[gofastmerc]

Damn, I wish I heard about this stuff when I did my door a few years ago. I have ten foot ceilings, a hoist, and a garage door opener right in the middle of the thing. I did offset the opener, but it would have been nice to get it out of the way completely. The door going right to the roof would be great too. I can't open the door when I have a car up there.