What's a GOOD 4x4?

[mrbojangles]

Originally posted by meithkiller





I don't really have any good flex pix, but... I agree that an SFA is superior to an IFS. If one were to live with an IFS the Taco's coil over would be the one to live with.


http://www.dfw-tx4wd.org/Photos/2004%20Archives/2003-01-17-BMRA/1067920-R1-025-11.jpg

I'll see what I can dig up.

At least the Yota IFS is stronger than the Nissan IFS. Anything larger than 31's with the stock Nissan steering will bend no matter how gentle one is.

Great wheelin' you have their!

[5.9 R/T]

Originally posted by meithkiller


TJ had the LSD... and the operative word is MIGHT... :)

We both know that an LSD holds no candle to a locker on the trail. Funny thing is even with the LSD the TJ still managed to equal the taco with the rear locker on the trail. But who knows what would have happened had it been the Rubi. Props to TRD though for offering the electronic locker, sounds like a sweet little setup. :thumbsup:

[meithkiller]

Originally posted by mrbojangles


At least the Yota IFS is stronger than the Nissan IFS. Anything larger than 31's with the stock Nissan steering will bend no matter how gentle one is.

Great wheelin' you have their!

Yeh, I've been running 33X12.5/15s for over 100,000 miles without any problems (except oil change maintenance issues mentioned above :whipped: )

Thanks... Texas does have some good places to wheel, although they are all quite a long ways from where I live. :(

[meithkiller]

Originally posted by 5.9 R/T


We both know that an LSD holds no candle to a locker on the trail. Funny thing is even with the LSD the TJ still managed to equal the taco with the rear locker on the trail. But who knows what would have happened had it been the Rubi. Props to TRD though for offering the electronic locker, sounds like a sweet little setup. :thumbsup:

True statement there. I do like the Rubi and yes the LSD is no comparison to a locker. I think the Rubi might have won the comparison if it had been available at the time. Now, if Yota locked the front too that WOULD be interesting. :burnout:

[2literv8eater]

suv flexin

[2literv8eater]

found some more pics of my truck
when it was stuck lol

[2literv8eater]

little flexen

[Weapon_R]

Pretty interesting comparison. Never would I have thought that a Tacoma would have done better than a hummer or land rover! That is exactly what I wanted to see when I began this thread. The whole intent was to see whether SUV manufacturers actually made durable off-road vehicles because it seems as though they have lost touch as SUV's become bigger, clumsier, smoother, and less SUV like.

[meithkiller]

Originally posted by 2literv8eater
found some more pics of my truck
when it was stuck lol

Dang! :eek: Did you hydro-lock the motor? :(

[meithkiller]

Originally posted by 2literv8eater
suv flexin

Looks like a Mitsubishi. Am I correct?

[meithkiller]

Originally posted by 2literv8eater
little flexen

COOL! :thumbsup:

[2literv8eater]

it said it was a montearo (sp)
nope no vaper lock just wheel spin (friend betted me i couldnt do it in 2 wheel drive he was right)
took a 454 suburban to pull it out lol
ill try to find that pic

[2literv8eater]

notice the gmc tailgate lol (orig was rotted to be hell so i threw on a gate from a gmc)

[tommy1223]

Originally posted by E36M3
I guess it is 3x the price cap, but my G does well off-road.

Three locking differentials and the AMG V8 make mud fun.

are u kidding me?!!?!?!

i'd baby that thing.

pimp tho!

[87gmc4x4]

I like to use chevy full sizes for offroad use, S10s are fun to

[hockeybronx]

I'd say Nissan Xterra.

Although I know nothing about it's offroad capabilities I would take it over any truck in the world.

[Heraclid]

The Isuzu VehiCross is often overlooked, and understandably so with so few ever made, but it can do some awesome stuff stock, let alone with a few tweaks. Also quite the rallycross vehicle (it was rally-inspired). If anyone doubts this, I can point you to lots of pics and reviews. :-)

[meithkiller]

Originally posted by Heraclid
The Isuzu VehiCross is often overlooked, and understandably so with so few ever made, but it can do some awesome stuff stock, let alone with a few tweaks. Also quite the rallycross vehicle (it was rally-inspired). If anyone doubts this, I can point you to lots of pics and reviews. :-)

I don't doubt it at all...but I would like a link to some pix and reviews, if you don't mind...thanks...

[Heraclid]

Ask and you shall receive! :-)


Here are a couple of reviews:
http://www.fourwheeler.com/roadtests/5034/index.html
http://www.thecarplace.com/00Vehi.htm

Here's a link to several more:
http://moncha.com/vx_links_frame.html

I found a couple of articles about it in off-road racing:
http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m4PRN/2001_Oct_4/78891105/p1/article.jhtml
http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m4PRN/2001_Sept_7/77946910/p1/article.jhtml

Just a video link I tossed in:
http://www.itprisms.com/vehicross/short_jump_1.mov

Here are some wheelin' pics:
http://www.itprisms.com/vehicross/html/tough.html

Here are about 40 or so more:
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=3432&papass=&sort=4
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=982&papass=&sort=4
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=63&size=big&papass=&sort=4
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=1813&size=big&papass=&sort=4
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=1814&size=big&papass=&sort=4
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=2276&papass=&sort=4
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=1840&papass=&sort=4
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=115&papass=&sort=4
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=1541&papass=&sort=4
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=903&papass=&sort=4
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=1475&papass=&sort=4
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=1476&papass=&sort=4
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=1921&papass=&sort=4
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=2171&papass=&sort=4
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=2069&papass=&sort=4
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=2025&papass=&sort=4
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=2155&papass=&sort=4
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=396&papass=&sort=4
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=1627&papass=&sort=4
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=203&papass=&sort=4
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=625&papass=&sort=4
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=674&papass=&sort=4
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=663&papass=&sort=4
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=626&papass=&sort=4
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=685&papass=&sort=4
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=643&papass=&sort=4
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=879&papass=&sort=4
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=2365&papass=&sort=4
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=698&papass=&sort=4
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=759&papass=&sort=4
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=1819&papass=&sort=4
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=367&papass=&sort=4
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=2070&papass=&sort=4
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=1547&papass=&sort=4
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=1548&papass=&sort=4
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=2163&papass=&sort=4
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=2030&papass=&sort=4
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=819&papass=&sort=4
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=627&papass=&sort=4
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=1820&papass=&sort=4
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=1984&papass=&sort=4

Had some pretty cool action pics of one that won a real wet and muddy rally in Thailand, but I'm feeling a bit too lazy to dig 'em up. But let me know if you need anything more. :-)

[meithkiller]

Originally posted by meithkiller


I don't doubt it at all...but I would like a link to some pix and reviews, if you don't mind...thanks...

Thank you very much... I'll check them out...:)

Whoops, quoted the wrong one.:banghead:

[meithkiller]

Originally posted by Heraclid
Ask and you shall receive! :-)

SNIP

Had some pretty cool action pics of one that won a real wet and muddy rally in Thailand, but I'm feeling a bit too lazy to dig 'em up. But let me know if you need anything more. :-)

Thank you very much... I'll check them out...
:)

[Heraclid]

Some reviews are a bit funny... in one of those they say there's no handle on the rear door. Well, there is a handle for the VehiCross rear door, and despite the article's complaint that there isn't, the guy is using it in the pic on the right (built into the license plate niche). :-)

[Moe Man]

arent we talking STOCK here........i can put stilts on my golf and climb over a car.but thats not the point.stock VS stock

and dont tell me a import is going to be the best stock offroader :rofl:

it is the jeep rubicon no questions.if it is not trailrated its not a jeep

oh and stop putting thoses 16 foot stupid trucks offroading over cars and rocks,cuz a jeep will do it STOCK :closed:

[Heraclid]

Okay...

The VX is a very good stock off-road platform. And very capable across a wide range, from road to dirt to dunes to rocks. It is one of the most well-equipped stock off-roaders out there. Normally great off-road performance means horrible on-road performance, and vice versa. Not in this case.

This is no RAV4, folks. It is a true body-on-frame truck, not a unibody. Much of the components are lifted from the proven Trooper, particularly the 2-door version sold only in Japan. It is very strong and rigid frame and has a beefy suspension package. It also has GM components. GM owns a portion of Isuzu and Isuzu is severing those ties for many reasons, one being GM reliability lately. I know guys who are on their fourth and fifth Isuzus and put 250,000 miles apiece on them with no major problems. Honda, with its reputation for quality, chose Isuzu to build its interim SUV while developing their own (the Honda Passport, which is a rebadged Rodeo - the Ascender and Envoy are also the same thing, and likewise the Trooper and Acura SLX). Isuzu turbodiesel engines set the standard and you will see lots of GM delivery trucks powered by it.

I myself am on my first Isuzu, coming from a Ford and Dodge ownership background. I used to say I'd only buy American too. Now I love my VX and wouldn't have anything else, period. And anyone who knocks the imports doesn't know what is in his own "American" truck. There is a lot of fraternization between manufacturers here and abroad, and any sense that "I only buy American" talk used to make has gone the way of the dinosaur. I don't care if it's a Ford, Chevy, Dodge, Isuzu, Nissan... all I care is that I can rely on it and that it is good and fun to drive.

Some of the ones in the pics aren't stockers in the sense that some have tires other than stock and some have a 3" Calmini lift, for example. This is not what I'd call extensive modification, and the VX requires less of it to achieve the same results as many other vehicles. None of the VX's pictured are jacked up very high. They may have added a skidplate and they may have had to trim their front cladding to get some of those tires on, but that's about it.

That said, we had a guy run totally stock (with the pretty well-worn stock Bridgestone Duelers) and perform exceedingly well at Uwharrie in some very slick conditions up hills and such, and very well on the rocks too. I ran the same trails totally stock except for my new BFG Mud-Terrain A/T's. It was terrain especially well-suited to the VX's Borg Warner Torque-On-Demand system. The VX has also performed quite well at Moab and other challenging places. These things love the sand. And VX's have pulled many a Jeep out of trouble. I for one have respect for Jeeps, and there are Jeepers that know and respect the Vx. But there are VXers out there that call them "Heaps".

I didn't say its the very best. I do however maintain that it is very good. The question was regarding what was "A GOOD 4X4", and it damn sure is. The VX needs a bit more clearance than stock and additional skidplates to really excel, but the short wheelbase helps a lot to keep it from getting hung up, and it has a lot of articulation - stock.

As I am more interested in racing rallycross, I probably will not lift the VX. By the way, a Subaru WRX driver was quoted as saying that the VX is awesome and at many rallycrosses one of our guys in a VX was his only real competition. Not bad for a SUV weighing 4,000 lbs.

[forgiven]

i would go with a lifted or just regular jeep wrangler or hummer or h2 if u have the money other than that a full size lifted truck that has the clerance

[2literv8eater]

ok moe man the reason i put my pics on of my truck on a car was to show of the articulation and dont try and tell me a jeep has more articulation stock than my truck:guns:

[2literv8eater]

my blazer and meithkillers taco would run up over top of a little jeep (by the way they arnt 16 foot tall
:thumbsup: )

[2literv8eater]

also moe man it never said "whats the best stock 4x4" did it? i rest my case

[meithkiller]

Originally posted by Moe Man
arent we talking STOCK here........i can put stilts on my golf and climb over a car.but thats not the point.stock VS stock

and dont tell me a import is going to be the best stock offroader :rofl:

it is the jeep rubicon no questions.if it is not trailrated its not a jeep

oh and stop putting thoses 16 foot stupid trucks offroading over cars and rocks,cuz a jeep will do it STOCK :closed:

Here we go again...:zzz:

I like the Rubicon, it is awesome and probably ONE OF THE best stock off-road vehicles available. There are others out there that are good too...

2literv8eater Blazer kicks butt.

I now like the VX. Do I think it is the best? No... but it IS different and interesting.

My personal favorite is the Tacoma (because I wheel one) I know it isn't the best, but it is one of the best.

Road test comparison:
Ultimate 4X4 (http://www.fourwheeler.com/roadtests/16558/)

Military usage:
Look here... (http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/289957/6)

Tacoma:
http://www.dfw-tx4wd.org/Photos/2003%20ARchives/2003-05-MayFunRun/Keith/trucks0014.jpg

No, it isn't stock, but it is VERY close to stock. It has survived all sorts of off-road adventures and I finally replaced the original clutch at 238,000 miles.

[Heraclid]

Replacing your clutch for the first time at 238,000 miles? Can't say that isn't a quality ride - I'm impressed! I ran with a Tacoma at Uwharrie and it did very well.

I am sure the Rubicon is awesomely capable but must plead ignorance as I'm not real familiar with it.

The VehiCross review (2000 Four Wheeler of the Year) speaks for itself, although the choice of contenders against the VX seems questionable. But the best articulation ever for an IFS-equipped truck ain't too bad. It also benefits a lot from the short wheelbase. One thing I will say is the alternators on some of them are vulnerable due to improperly sealed voltage regulators. I submerged mine pretty good and found that out. There are plenty that have not had it happen, but in Ocala we had 3 that did. Come to think of it, I did those mudholes on stock rubber, too. It is a good stock performer - very much a cross-trainer type of vehicle, too. It is deceptively heavy because it is built to go off the beaten path - people chalk it up as another Honda CRV or RAV4, but it is about the same size as a RAV4 and weighs 1,000 lbs. more.

I think the Hummer is overrated, though purely on hearsay. I just remember some guys who seemed a lot more informed than me talking about a Uwharrie trail they didn't think the Hummers there were going to be able to handle.

I don't know if anyone has seen the new VW concept vehicle, but it looks quite promising.

[mrbojangles]

Originally posted by Moe Man


...oh and stop putting thoses 16 foot stupid trucks offroading over cars and rocks,cuz a jeep will do it STOCK :closed:


Maybe on little rocks. A stock Jeep doesn't articulate that well enough to follow a truck or a Jeep that articulates. Even the Rubicon with F/R lockers will do better when it lifts a wheel off the ground, but with it's swaybars disconnected, and a mild suspension lift on it, you still stuff the fronts into the fenders and that's all you have.

Anyways, just my .02 worth. :D

[Moe Man]

i dont think the hole point of this thread was to show how much articulation your truck has............like i said if i raised my go i can have just as much articulation as your truck right?

anything that is raised can offroad.....but we wnna see if the stock vehicals can offroad

my blazer and meithkillers taco would run up over top of a little jeep (by the way they arnt 16 foot tall

ok raise the jeep and see who will run over who?

the thing that makes a good offroader is the tires and the drivetrain and clearance......based on this info now what is the best offroader STOCK

oh and WTF is a VX

[meithkiller]

Originally posted by Moe Man
...SNIP...the thing that makes a good offroader is the tires and the drivetrain and clearance......based on this info now what is the best offroader STOCK

oh and WTF is a VX

Check out some of the links in the posts on this thread and you'll find out it is the STOCK Tacoma...:bigpimp: (of course I'm biased, but the documentation pretty much supports it.)

Look at the links about the VX in a previous post and you'll see that it is a pretty cool ride.:thumbsup:

Yep, Jeeps are good 4X4 rigs too...:burnout:

[mrbojangles]

There are quite a few stock 4x4's that are very capable on the trail. With front and rear lockers, my votes for the Rubicon.
Though, take a good driver in a stock 4x4 with open diffs and a bad driver in a locked Rubicon...:D

[Heraclid]

VX is the nickname its drivers have given to the Isuzu VehiCross, which was a limited production (4,500 units), hand-assembled "halo" vehicle built from 1999-2001.

[meithkiller]

Originally posted by mrbojangles
There are quite a few stock 4x4's that are very capable on the trail. With front and rear lockers, my votes for the Rubicon.
Though, take a good driver in a stock 4x4 with open diffs and a bad driver in a locked Rubicon...:D

Yeh, that Rubicon is bad to the bone.:thumbsup:

I like the Tacoma due to the overall performance including rugged construction to keep it break free on the trail.:bigpimp:

You're right about drivers too...:burnout:

[meithkiller]

Originally posted by Heraclid
VX is the nickname its drivers have given to the Isuzu VehiCross, which was a limited production (4,500 units), hand-assembled "halo" vehicle built from 1999-2001.

Indeed, it is a cool ride...:thumbsup: I am thinking about searching for a used one for my daughter when she gets her license. She wants to wheel with our club but I also want to feel good about her on the road too. Also the low center of gravity is a plus...:bigpimp:

[Heraclid]

That's cool - if you have any questions about anything, just let me know and I'll give you straight answers. It's a great little vehicle, but like anything there are some quirks. You won't find crash data on it because it's a limited production vehicle and no one bothered to do those for it. But there are pics of ones that were in serious wrecks and the driver walked away. One guy rolled his a few times and needed a few stitches, and another had to have pins put in his foot but a Civic hit him head-on at a closure rate of about 90 mph and the Civic driver isn't with us anymore. Gas mileage isn't the best, but it is a substantial, weighty vehicle. Good power, nice traction control system. Rear visibility takes getting used to, or there are a few ways around it. Some install rearview cameras in the factory location for one (only Japanese versions came with it though), but cheap fixes like Van Eyes work too. I don't use anything - it's just depends on the person. Fortunately the most common problems on the VX are cheap fixes. Parts availabilty may seem to be a problem, and to a degree it will be as time goes on, but a lot of it is borrowed from the Trooper, too. Another plus is that they are pretty affordable these days (way undervalued if you ask me), and many used ones seem to have been pampered. Anyway, let me know if there's anything you have questions about.

[sr20det]

if you want a cheap reliable rig, get a old chevy 69 - 87... best bang for the buck. i myself am buildin up a 77 for that same purpose. Fords arent that bad, but the parts are expensive and the motors are confusing and expensive to work on. look for a chevy with a dana 44 front end, and swap in a dana 60 in the back. Np205 t-case, and a SM465 4-speed tranny...one of the lowest first gear ratio trannies and its rock solid.

[sr20det]

and if ur into the imports...get a old school toyota, throw in a 350..solid front axle..and ur set

[Moe Man]

so a VX is a vehiacross or whatever........arent those thinks like compact.does it even have 4 low....or yet a V6

dont know why you would think that is better in offroading than a rubi?

[meithkiller]

Originally posted by Moe Man
so a VX is a vehiacross or whatever........arent those thinks like compact.does it even have 4 low....or yet a V6

dont know why you would think that is better in offroading than a rubi?

Nobody said it was better off-road than a Rubicon. It has a 4 lo and pretty good flex for an IFSer. It is an interesting and effective 4X4 and that would make it a GOOD 4X4 like this thread states in the title. :thumbsup:

[Heraclid]

The VehiCross has 4 Lo. Tranny is the 4L30E like in the Trooper. It has full-time AWD in the form of its Borg Warner TOD (Torque On Demand) traction control system that is proactive, not reactive, and distributes torque to the wheels that need it. It's fun to stomp it in the rain and watch the dash display go bonkers. :-) It evaluates various sensors every 20 milliseconds and can predict and prevent wheel slippage.

Engine is a 3.5 liter (213 cubic in) direct-ignition (separate coils for each plug), DOHC sequential multi-port injection V6 putting out 215 hp, 230 ft. lbs. of torque; peak torque occurs in the low range under 3,000 rpm. Compression is 9:1:1. There is a supercharger made specifically for it that boosts hp output to about 275 hp. At the time it came out it was the second-quickest SUV behind the Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo, and remains one of the quickest out there, particularly with the S/C. There is also selectable power mode that allows for higher rpms before shifts, and a winter mode for icy conditions.

The VehiCROSS sports a double wishbone, independent front suspension using torsion bar springs with a 1.1" stabilizer bar.
The rear is comprised of a 4-link suspension using coil springs with a .75" stabilizer bar.
The VehiCROSS uses four aerospace standard extruded mono-tube shock absorbers with external expansion chambers.

The VehiCROSS combines a 3-channel, 4 wheel ABS (Anti-lock Braking System) and power-assisted disc calipers with 11" front and 12.3" rear ventilated rotors, the VehiCROSS has one of the shortest 0-60 stopping distances among all vehicles on the road. Only 126 feet!

Wheelbase 91.8 in.
Overall length (including spare tire) 162.6 in.
Overall width 70.5 in.
Overall height 66.9 in.
Track, front/rear 59.6/59.8 in.
Stock ground clearance (minimum at differential) 8.4 in.
Angle of approach 34°.
Angle of departure 30°.
Frame-to-ground 9.9 in.



Transmission gear ratios - (:1)
1st: 2.86
2nd: 1.62
3rd: 1.00
4th: 0.72
Rev.: 2.00


Axle gear ratios - (:1)
Front: 4.30
Rear: 4.30


Transfer case ratios - (:1)
High: 1.00
Low: 2.48

[2literv8eater]

yea the vx is nice but i like the power and feel of a v8 and not to be mean or anything you cant raise anything and think it will be good off road especially a fwd vw lmao yes jeeps have there advantages but also down falls here are a few i have herd of (dont know how true it is)
parts cost big $$$ and stuff breaks alot
i would drive a toyota tacoma or dodge dakota
before a new jeep but thats just me

[Heraclid]

Then you'd be interested in the guy with a VX who is dropping a LS1 engine (Corvette) into it. Should be up and running in a month or so. He will have to sacrifice much of what gives the VX its charm (Torque on Demand system & probably worse handling in general), but he will have the extra power. I would prefer to just install the supercharger (gets you to about 270hp) Plenty for me. I will go down the path of rallycrossing it (first rallycross was a few weeks ago- had a blast!) more than extreme off-roading I think, but it can do that too. Tremendous stock wheel travel on these things. I just do not want to sacrifice daily driving characteristics to make it a more serious crawler. It can do a lot in its stock form (all the off-roading I'll really ever need) and I want to keep it roughly stock for the handling so I can race it in the dirt.

I don't know if the VW comment was directed at me per se, but I was not referring to just raising a VW. Not a Touareg, either. I was referring to an interesting AWD sport/off-road concept vehicle with scissor doors that they have out there now that would do 0-60 in under 7. Talking about this:

http://www.seriouswheels.com/top-Volkswagen-Concept-T.htm

As always, the question is if they will build it, and if they did, how true to the concept would it remain. The VehiCross is unique in that it changed very, very little from concept to production.

Just curious - you like V8's, but you go by 2literv8eater, so what did you choose over a V8?

At the rallycross we had a guy with a personalized tag that read SUV ETR. It was kind of funny because for the most part that isn't saying very much. Okay, if you can beat a Cayenne S or FX45, that's not too shabby, but most SUVs aren't real quick (V8 or not). The thing I like about the VX is it is a slingshot in passing. Decent launch from a stop, but when it's up to cruise speed and you've got to gun it past someone on the fly, that's where it really excels.

[2literv8eater]

well the 2literv8eater comes from my car 92 eagle talon (dont really eat v8's but what the hell) still have it but now i also have my blazer and the vw comment was for moe man

[Heraclid]

I don't know so much about the 92 Talons, but my brother had a stock 95 Eclipse GS-T that I'm sure could dust a few V8's. I always liked the first and second generation Talons/Eclipses. One of my favorites would be the 91-95 MR2 Turbos, but too small for me (6'3").

[kao75]

Originally posted by Thi_Thi Subs

no technically the landrover is at the top of the 4x4 list for their abilities to climb steeper hills than jeeps.. the yj/tj's which are used more than the cheerokees in offroading events have probably the most potential for rockclimbing and just plain fun. but ppl think jeeps are 4x4 are invincible or somethin.. offroading gets very expensive real quick.. the thing about tj/yj's are is their reputation for tipping..

Put me out of my misery! What is the max climb+side angle for a rubicon jeep? For that matter whats the wading depth? In Canada i drive a cherokee, but back home (wales) I drove a 88"wheelbase Landy. Landy was much better off road, Max climb:45 degrees (100%), max side angle 40 degrees, wade depth 750mm, approach 51 degrees, departure 53 degrees, rampover 155 degrees, min ground clearance=9". All this on a stock vehicle.
Anyone know if a Rubi can do any better (or any stock vehicle for that matter)? Ps a disco isnt a real Landy!

[turboMiata]

Originally posted by kao75


Put me out of my misery! What is the max climb+side angle for a rubicon jeep? For that matter whats the wading depth? In Canada i drive a cherokee, but back home (wales) I drove a 88"wheelbase Landy. Landy was much better off road, Max climb:45 degrees (100%), max side angle 40 degrees, wade depth 750mm, approach 51 degrees, departure 53 degrees, rampover 155 degrees, min ground clearance=9". All this on a stock vehicle.
Anyone know if a Rubi can do any better (or any stock vehicle for that matter)? Ps a disco isnt a real Landy!


Bah, you can play the numbers game all you want. But two things:

a) you should have brought your hulk over here so you don't have to drive a jeep.
b) coil springs rule.

:D:devil:

[kao75]

Originally posted by turboMiata



Bah, you can play the numbers game all you want. But two things:

a) you should have brought your hulk over here so you don't have to drive a jeep.
b) coil springs rule.

:D:devil: ;)

He He Disco comment got yr goat?
Yup coil springs do rule, but only on a LR90 (for all the same number crunching reasons)!
I would love to have bought the hulk, but I had to sell it cause the best way to tell how fast you were going was by watching how fast the fuel guage went down. Also the tranny gave off more heat than the heater did which aint much good for a canadian winter. what can I say-it had character!;)

[digitalshogun]

I'll be honest. I have virtually NO true offroad experience. What little experience I do have makes me glad I got a Tacoma and not a jeep though. When some friends and I went camping in Drum, one of them brought their TJ and I can say that it was a lot easier to hill climb in the Tacoma than in the jeep. (A lot of the pictures that were taken, were taken by him from the bottom of some of the hills) Plus it just felt safer over all.
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/5/web/425000-425999/425610_23.jpg

As for those talkin' smack about 'Yotas. Toyota has a much longer history of offroading than most people think. Development of Land Cruisers began in 1950 and was in full production by 1954. Modern toyota trucks have been in production for 25 years. Toyota trucks also have a giant support community in the states that hosts meets constantly and promotes the offroading sport called "Tacoma Territory Off-Road Assoc." or TTORA.
http://128.83.80.200/taco/to04_34.jpg
Yup, all Taco's. ;) For those looking for pics of articulation check out the site this pic is from. Granted a lot of the Taco's have had a front solid axle swap but not all.
FrankenTaco! (http://128.83.80.200/taco/index.html)
Click on the link called "Rubicon and TakeOver '04". Amazing pictures. You must click here. Do it.

...and as for what a vehicle can do stock. Screw articulation. Screw puddles. Hell screw rock crawling. Check out what this bone stock (and just the 4banger) Tacoma does ... and it is his daily driver.
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/5/web/365000-365999/365390_26.jpg
Click here to see X-Treme Offroading (http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/365390/)(Video is a little less impressive) ;)

Oh yeah and did I mention that the kid with the most wins in offroad racing, Ivan "IronMan" Stewart, wins with Toyota.

Once again ... a little biased. But aren't we all? From my experience (granted limited) and the reliability track record that Toyota has ... make mine Toyota. :thumbsup:

[Ek9Max]

I work at dodge. And chrysler took us out for a training seminar on the new tj's and grand cheroke's .

We drove them on an off-road course at race city. Also compared them against the Ford explorer, chev blazer, toyota 4runner, and a few others.

The jeeps where HANDS down better than teh competition.

[kao75]

Yup your right we are all biased. Toyota sure make good stock offroaders theres no doubt about that. Friend of mine who did alot of offroad driving in Africa said it was always between the Land Rover and the Toy Landcruiser over there. He said the Toy broke down less, but was harder to fix when it did. At home Id always go for a LR Defender or LR SI,2,3 short wheel base, but over here there so expensive second hand its just not worth it.
The bloke who complained about me number crunching did have a point-It is hard to tell untill you actually get on the trail. Just look at the Taco-rubbish numbers on paper, but its got a great reputation off road. On the other hand the numbers can be a good indication-theres been plenty of times in my old Landy when I'v yoused up every degree and inch of those numbers when other 4x4's would just be left stranded. Your Taco probably felt more stable than the Tj because of the extra length-good for some things, not for others.
As for the guy who works for jeep. The Rubicon and the Dodge Powerwagon are both top stock offroaders. Any chance next time your at work you could find out the max climb angle, tip angle and wading depth for a standard Tj and a Rubicon? I know its a bit of a techno geek question, but I am really curious to know how much of a difference the changes to the Rubicon made in those areas? If you could let me know I would appreciate that, thanks.
Meanwhile heres my vote for the top 5 stock offroaders.
(no rare vehicles, commercial, ex military or atv's and they can all do the national speed limit, unlike the Unimog-which is an awesome 4x4.)
1, Land Rover 90 Defender xs
2, Santana ps10-Pick up or swb when its available
3, Jeep TJ Rubicon
4, Toyota Taco TRD
5, Dodge Power Wagon 05
But yes I am biased!:dunno: :D

[digitalshogun]

Originally posted by kao75
Your Taco probably felt more stable than the Tj because of the extra length-good for some things, not for others.

Yeah the extra length, and weight distubution definetly helped with the stability and overall better feeling I had. Normally I would worry about getting high centered with the greater distance between the fronts and rears but the Tacoma also had more ground clearance and more undercarriage protection than the "trail rated" TJ. The TJ was still a lot of fun though. I would like to try out a rover but it is a little outta my price range lol.

[qaxaz]

I just bought a 96 Explorer, and some people ive talked to said they really like them. Haven't taken mine offroad yet, its still bone stock, I just got it last week.

[Jeepguy]

Dodge RAM 2500 POWER WAGON BABY!!! 31" stock tires - electronic disconnect front sway-bar - 12,000lbs factory installed WARN Winch/ Bilstein Shocks WHOAAA!!!

[69cougar]

Good 4x4, forget about an suv right now. The only good 4x4's IMO are Trucks, Jeeps TJ/YJ, and the original Hummers. Trucks are nice because there is a huge amount of a/m parts available to specific applications, they are also easier to modify, built stronger, offer more factory ground clearance, and have the room needed to haul in tools and parts for if you go deep in the bush, plus the ability to install a slip tank. Some of the guys I have gone with take extra diffs, and transfer cases just in case, Many more points I could list but this is my 2 cents.