are men pussies nowadays compared to yesteryear?

[hattonlynch]

what do you guys think?

we live in an age where no ones had to "pay their dues". no war, no great depression, an amazing boom never seen before, iphones, blackberries, kids driving at 16 years old without working a day in their life, etc.

for me personally, i think we as men probably are. we are incredibly fortunate to live in the type of society we do today.

[TurboD]

no war?
no depression?
no ones had to pay their dues?
amazing boom?

LOL

What planet are you on?

You look at technology as making "men" pussies, but I would submit that technology frees us as a species.
It creates a more efficient man, not a pussy.

[deaftone]

:facepalm:

[hattonlynch]

Originally posted by TurboD
no war?
no depression?
no ones had to pay their dues?
amazing boom?

LOL

What planet are you on?

no WORLD WAR, no CONSCRIPTION that type of thing.
we've had NO DEPRESSION, a couple mild recessions however.
amazing boom??? do you have an education? take a macro economics class.

and no one has payed their damn dues. listen to the stories of your father and mother/and grandparents. most of them were providing for there family at 14 yrs old....had a single income from father only, stuff like that.

FFS, you think the younger crowd had as much purchasing power with goods and services 40 years ago? come off it bro.

[hattonlynch]

Originally posted by deaftone
:facepalm:

why is it a facepalm ricer boy?

[TurboD]

Originally posted by hattonlynch


we've had NO DEPRESSION, a couple mild recessions however.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/09/news/economy/jobs_december/

The USA lost 2.6 million jobs

"highest level in more than six decades"


LOL @ MILD RECESSION


tell that to those 2.6 million people.


"2008 was the worst year for layoffs and job losses in the United States since World War II and 2009 is expected to be even more devastating."

now let me find the Canadian numbers

[hattonlynch]

Originally posted by TurboD


http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/09/news/economy/jobs_december/

The USA lost 2.6 million jobs

"highest level in more than six decades"


LOL @ MILD RECESSION


tell that to those 2.6 million people.

but there's been no depression as i stated. 25% unemployment would be baaaaaaad.

[TurboD]

Jesus man, how blind can you be?

"bring on the depression, then we can all be real men"

- hattonlynch

[KrisYYC]

I think it's true. Man where do I start?

Really, for the last 50 years or so there hasn't been any true hardship to deal with in North America. That being said however, I have noticed that people around the age of 20 or so today to be the biggest pussies (moreso than those around the age of 30) because they've never lived in a bust time yet. They think 16 year olds getting brand new cars is normal. When I was 16 people would have been happy to have any shitbox car, and maybe 1 in 4 of us had one.

It seems most "men" nowadays are still dependant on mommy and daddy in some form. If you want to see a generation completely collapse take away the baby boomers money and financial clout (ie: no more co-signing).

That, plus the whole politically correct crap that's been shoved down our throats making us afraid even just to stand up for ourselves for fear of being labeled a chauvinist.

This boom has been shitty for me in a way because I grew up in a low-income single parent home. My mother cannot co-sign, nor can she give me the downpayment for my first home etc. I literally had to bust my balls and work two jobs to save up for a measley apartment condo. Meanwhile others around my age are buying brand new homes with granite and hardwood, all drive new cars, thanks to mommy and daddy's money/co-signing. I know it shouldn't bother me, especially considering most of them are leveraged up to the eyeballs in debt. But still, in this society image is everything right?


So yes, "men" nowadays are pussies.

/rant

[rizfarmer]

Originally posted by hattonlynch


but there's been no depression as i stated. 25% unemployment would be baaaaaaad.

do you consider yourself a pussie?

[speedog]

Y'all have iphones or blackberries? Really? My last phone was a simple Nokia brick - didn't need or want the smartphone stuff. But ppl now a days figure that they need all that instant contact - as an example, we had a 20 year old girl who used to work for us who said her next cell phone had to be a smartphone with full internet capabilities. Why is beyond me - I own my own busniess (with my wife) and still haven't seen the need for a smartphone. Priorities I guess.

Kids driving at 16 without working a day in their life - not in my family. While my oldest has been driving since 16, he also was working a couple of years before that and currently holds down 3 part time jobs as well as being in grade 12 and on the high school football and wrestliong teams. Next one coming up (grade 10) already following in brother's footsteps. Kids and yourself are what you make of them/yourself - you can choose to give your kids (and yourself) all the toys in the world without expecting them how to earn such things or you can actually teach them about life and how to be independant and respectful of others and also of what they have.

Doesn't take a war or depression to teach responsibility or respect or what the value of a dollar is. Takes good parenting and after getting out from the nest, continuing to practice those learned ideals as a decent adult human being.

[KrisYYC]

Originally posted by TurboD


http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/09/news/economy/jobs_december/

The USA lost 2.6 million jobs

"highest level in more than six decades"


LOL @ MILD RECESSION


tell that to those 2.6 million people.


"2008 was the worst year for layoffs and job losses in the United States since World War II and 2009 is expected to be even more devastating."

now let me find the Canadian numbers

We are still less than 10% unemployment, depression was 25% unemployment.

If you honestly think this recession is painful, I really hope you never have to experience what went down back then, hell even back in the 80's and 90's. How does a 21% interest rate on your mortgage sound? And you could forget about qualifying for a brand new car.

[TurboD]

^ you are assuming this recession is over when in fact it is getting worse.

The idea of a real man is a myth.
All the more power to you if you believe it, that way you can be a slave to society your entire life and I can hopefully capitalize on your ignorance.

I'm glad there are so many canadians and americans that consider the army being a real man, so that I don't have to risk my life for some bullshit political power struggle.

[speedog]

BTW, my eldest (17 year old) drives our vehicles - he really wanted his own but once he started looking at the costs of owning/operating/maintaining his vehicle, he decided to put that money away in his college fund. Now he has enough put away for 3 years and is working on year number 4. He still puts gas in our vehicles, washes and cleans them and helps maintain them. Pussy, he is not nor will he be.

[KrisYYC]

Originally posted by TurboD
^ you are assuming this recession is over when in fact it is getting worse.

The idea of a real man is a myth.
All the more power to you if you believe it, that way you can be a slave to society your entire life and I can hopefully capitalize on your ignorance.

I'm glad there are so many canadians and americans that consider the army being a real man, so that I don't have to risk my life for some bullshit political power struggle.

I didn't assume it was over, but I what I do see is people whining about like it was damn near the apocolypse when really it isn't THAT bad (yet). I agree it could get much worse, especially in the US.

The idea of a real man is a myth? Well, I do agree with you somewhat there. I always thought a real man is somebody who does whatever it takes to provide for his family. Not really a myth.

Slave to society eh? What are you? Do you have a job? Do you pay bills? How exactly am I ignorant, and how would you capitalize on it?
:rofl:

Please tell me you're not some 20 year old who thinks he's going to be the next Donald Trump.

[speedog]

Originally posted by rizfarmer


do you consider yourself a pussie? C'mon hattonlynch, man up and answer the Q.

[KrisYYC]

Originally posted by speedog
Y'all have iphones or blackberries? Really? My last phone was a simple Nokia brick - didn't need or want the smartphone stuff. But ppl now a days figure that they need all that instant contact - as an example, we had a 20 year old girl who used to work for us who said her next cell phone had to be a smartphone with full internet capabilities. Why is beyond me - I own my own busniess (with my wife) and still haven't seen the need for a smartphone. Priorities I guess.

Kids driving at 16 without working a day in their life - not in my family. While my oldest has been driving since 16, he also was working a couple of years before that and currently holds down 3 part time jobs as well as being in grade 12 and on the high school football and wrestliong teams. Next one coming up (grade 10) already following in brother's footsteps. Kids and yourself are what you make of them/yourself - you can choose to give your kids (and yourself) all the toys in the world without expecting them how to earn such things or you can actually teach them about life and how to be independant and respectful of others and also of what they have.

Doesn't take a war or depression to teach responsibility or respect or what the value of a dollar is. Takes good parenting and after getting out from the nest, continuing to practice those learned ideals as a decent adult human being.

Very true, good post.

Obviously not every parent is spoiling their kids, but you gotta admit...it's a lot more common in the last 10 years or so than before.

[euphoria]

The Pussyfication of Canada?

http://forums.beyond.ca/st/251487/the-pussyfication-of-canada-part-1/

[deaftone]

Originally posted by KrisYYC
I think it's true. Man where do I start?

Really, for the last 50 years or so there hasn't been any true hardship to deal with in North America. That being said however, I have noticed that people around the age of 20 or so today to be the biggest pussies (moreso than those around the age of 30) because they've never lived in a bust time yet. They think 16 year olds getting brand new cars is normal. When I was 16 people would have been happy to have any shitbox car, and maybe 1 in 4 of us had one.

It seems most "men" nowadays are still dependant on mommy and daddy in some form. If you want to see a generation completely collapse take away the baby boomers money and financial clout (ie: no more co-signing).

That, plus the whole politically correct crap that's been shoved down our throats making us afraid even just to stand up for ourselves for fear of being labeled a chauvinist.

This boom has been shitty for me in a way because I grew up in a low-income single parent home. My mother cannot co-sign, nor can she give me the downpayment for my first home etc. I literally had to bust my balls and work two jobs to save up for a measley apartment condo. Meanwhile others around my age are buying brand new homes with granite and hardwood, all drive new cars, thanks to mommy and daddy's money/co-signing. I know it shouldn't bother me, especially considering most of them are leveraged up to the eyeballs in debt. But still, in this society image is everything right?


So yes, "men" nowadays are pussies.

/rant

I'll take it one further, and say that it is how this generation (Y) was raised. Our Grandparents saw war, depression and all that firsthand, and (most of them) raised our parents to obey, work hard, and have RESPECT. Unfortunately, a ton of parents today decided to the opposite with their children. They gave the kids everything, instilled zero work ethic in them, taught them nothing about manners, respect, and working in the community. All they care about it possessions and money (without having to bust their ass for it, mind you.) They contribute nothing to society.

If anyone thought Gen. X was a lazy group of people, wait until Gen. Y reaches 30
:rofl:

[Supa Dexta]

Guys wear tight pants and carry purses nowadays.. nough said.

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by KrisYYC


We are still less than 10% unemployment, depression was 25% unemployment.

If you honestly think this recession is painful, I really hope you never have to experience what went down back then, hell even back in the 80's and 90's. How does a 21% interest rate on your mortgage sound? And you could forget about qualifying for a brand new car.

Not sure about Canada, but the US has changed the way it calculates unemployment over the past few decades. The actual number (as measured during the depression) is closer to 16%

Also I think it would be good to note that the %of disposable income spent on food for the average person has gone down substantially. So even though people have no job, they can still eat. thats why we arent going to see the soup kitchens of the 30s.


No as far as men being pussies. Absolutely YES.

I work in the oilfield and you should see some of the daisies that we hire into work field positions. They have turned a wrench or touched a screw driver before. Completely clueless and lacking all common sense. No physical strength, scared to get dirty, scared to ask questions, generally useless on most levels. Some of them gel their hair, apply cover up on zits, and even call their moms every day from the rig.

It's a damn shame.

[black13]

who let this grandpa out of the senior home? lol

the second someone complains about technology then clearly they don't like change or moving forward. Do you really want society stuck in the same cycle forever? Society today is already as slow as it is advancing we don't need it to be slower.

And you think its bad that people have gotten better at actually communicating and negotiating instead of blasting out their guns to go to war over small shit? We already have enough war going on around the world, we don't need more so we don't get "pussified".

[JimmyJones]

I'm with op on this one. Of course the times we are seeing now are the hardest many have ever seen, but in a global perspective these times are not very hard at all.

[CUG]

Originally posted by Supa Dexta
Guys wear tight pants and carry purses nowadays.. nough said. Yup.


I don't agree with it requiring a recession, conscription and all of that chaos in order to be a real man.

I think the majority of "people with a penis" are quite feminine, and that women support that concept.

This of course will not serve them well when the streets are on fire and I'm swinging a giant axe around clearing a path to the motherland.

[hattonlynch]

Originally posted by Supa Dexta
Guys wear tight pants and carry purses nowadays.. nough said.

What he said.

And for the sake of the thread, no i'm not a "pussy", but i'm willing to bet alot of you are. especially the tools who carry around those vutton purses and have fauxhawks that took them an hour to do.

It's pretty simple, look around on facebook and myspace. you have little queers showing off their new d&g glasses, making zoolander poses with hair that took them 4 hours to do, wearing tight jeans and an outfit that costs 1000 bucks. you think that shit was going on when your dad was a kid? you can bet your ass it wasn't.

advertising and marketing has turned the majority of men into a bunch of pussies. hell, i remember it did the same to me, thankfully i DID grow out of it. turned me into a socially anxious faggot who thought getting girls had more to do with hair and clothes then a damn personality.

[hattonlynch]

Originally posted by black13
who let this grandpa out of the senior home? lol

the second someone complains about technology then clearly they don't like change or moving forward. Do you really want society stuck in the same cycle forever? Society today is already as slow as it is advancing we don't need it to be slower.

And you think its bad that people have gotten better at actually communicating and negotiating instead of blasting out their guns to go to war over small shit? We already have enough war going on around the world, we don't need more so we don't get "pussified".

Technology has its advantages but also many disadvantages. look at how clothes are marketed nowadays. basically shoved down our throats. dudes wear scarfs, tight girl pants, v necks, have multiple piercings (some even have tongue peircings), and generally care about fashion.

i'm sorry.....but that's fucking HOMO. i'm glad i never turned into one of those tools. i've had many a friend who have and i really feel sorry for them. they'll never move out of their mommy's basement because they spend 50% of their disposable income a week on clothes and BS like that. sad, really...

Thirdly, yes we are pussies, and i retract my earlier statement....maybe i am a little bit of a pussy. shit, i've had a pretty frigging good life so far. i got in an accident at 18, totalled my car and within a month or so of taking the bus my dad decided to buy me a car (granted it was 3600, and i DID pay him back, but still....)

the main point to this thread was to show how everything has been handed to us. my parents saw hard times and they instilled that into me. i see many kids today who have parents who hand them anything....is that going to build character and RESPECT? hell fuckin' no.

[Danny Meehan]

" i see many kids today who have parents who hand them anything....is that going to build character and RESPECT? hell fuckin' no."

This isnt necessarily true. While agree with some concepts you present, family ties and respect can be build this way in european and asian families. Thus, when they're older, the kids will take care of the parents.

The real character in a man is when he, in turn, takes care of his parents with the most care and respect they deserve.

[jav_]

when i first saw the title i thought it would be about how back in the days...only fists were used in street fights....now its all about stabbing and drive-bys

[ZorroAMG]

Originally posted by CUG


This of course will not serve them well when the streets are on fire and I'm swinging a giant axe around clearing a path to the motherland.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Rock on, Thor.

I'll raise your axe...

4DzcOCyHDqc

[LongCity]

Originally posted by hattonlynch


Technology has its advantages but also many disadvantages. look at how clothes are marketed nowadays. basically shoved down our throats. dudes wear scarfs, tight girl pants, v necks, have multiple piercings (some even have tongue peircings), and generally care about fashion.

i'm sorry.....but that's fucking HOMO. i'm glad i never turned into one of those tools. i've had many a friend who have and i really feel sorry for them. they'll never move out of their mommy's basement because they spend 50% of their disposable income a week on clothes and BS like that. sad, really...


Just yesterday I saw Anderson Silva in a bright pink v-neck sweater. Try calling him a homo. haha ok, carry on.

[RHDb2200]

Real Men go to jail

[Danny Meehan]

Originally posted by ZorroAMG


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Rock on, Thor.

I'll raise your axe...

4DzcOCyHDqc

he'll have more conviction, he's on his way to the motherland ;)

[rizfarmer]

Originally posted by hattonlynch


Technology has its advantages but also many disadvantages. look at how clothes are marketed nowadays. basically shoved down our throats. dudes wear scarfs, tight girl pants, v necks, have multiple piercings (some even have tongue peircings), and generally care about fashion.

i'm sorry.....but that's fucking HOMO. i'm glad i never turned into one of those tools. i've had many a friend who have and i really feel sorry for them. they'll never move out of their mommy's basement because they spend 50% of their disposable income a week on clothes and BS like that. sad, really...

Thirdly, yes we are pussies, and i retract my earlier statement....maybe i am a little bit of a pussy. shit, i've had a pretty frigging good life so far. i got in an accident at 18, totalled my car and within a month or so of taking the bus my dad decided to buy me a car (granted it was 3600, and i DID pay him back, but still....)

the main point to this thread was to show how everything has been handed to us. my parents saw hard times and they instilled that into me. i see many kids today who have parents who hand them anything....is that going to build character and RESPECT? hell fuckin' no.

What is your point? Your great grandfather thought your grandfathers' generation were a bunch of pussies; you're grandfather thought your fathers' generation were a bunch of pussies, and so on...

It's called change, and when changes happen in the social and economic values of society two things happen:

1. the geezers and degenerates get left behind in the previous century. Afterall, it's been 70 years since young men were last conscripted into the military and everyone under the age of 50 now is a tit fed pussy

or

2. people enbrace the evolving social and economic environment they live in, and thrive in it.



So, hattonlynch, are you one of Canada's last surviving WWII vets, or a degenerate loser that hasn't come to terms with something called the 21st century?





p.s. if you think a 'frigging good life' is when your daddy buys you a $3,600 car to replace the last pos you crashed, then you've never watched 30 seconds of MTV - which still doesn't help us figure out whether you are a geezer or a degenerate.

[ZorroAMG]

Originally posted by Danny Meehan


he'll have more conviction, he's on his way to the motherland ;)

I'll have a bigger and faster gun. ;)

[TomcoPDR]

When you are a men, sometimes you wear stretchy pants in your room.

http://2.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kptvl3Qrxw1qzf5rjo1_400.jpg

[kertejud2]

This is the guy who was whining (like a girl) about the lack of custom housing in Calgary.

Go build your own custom house like a real man you pussy!

[mucat]

Originally posted by Supa Dexta
Guys wear tight pants and carry purses nowadays.. nough said.

It is a european carry all!! european carry al!!

[speedog]

http://www.lapsura.com/drawings/archives/images/european-carryall.gif

[ipeefreely]

^
:rofl: :rofl: :nut:

[gam0s]

:guns: you pussy.

[Trini]

Originally posted by Supa Dexta
Guys wear tight pants and carry purses nowadays.. nough said.

lol that does put it in perspective


Originally posted by rizfarmer


What is your point? Your great grandfather thought your grandfathers' generation were a bunch of pussies; you're grandfather thought your fathers' generation were a bunch of pussies, and so on...

It's called change, and when changes happen in the social and economic values of society two things happen:

1. the geezers and degenerates get left behind in the previous century. Afterall, it's been 70 years since young men were last conscripted into the military and everyone under the age of 50 now is a tit fed pussy

or

2. people enbrace the evolving social and economic environment they live in, and thrive in it.






well said...times change.

[ekguy]

I think so but not the reasons you specify though. This mentality kids have now in schools. One has a beef with another and it's a fight...A fight to see who can get their ''boys'' there quickest haha.

I think most 15 to 18 even 19 year old ''men'' in this city have to rely on numbers to be men and can't just be seen as A man.

Just my view on this. In highschool when I went way back two men fought each other....Not groups against one guy...

[Beerking]

Everyear at this time when Remembrance Day rolls around and I think about fighting in a trench, it sends shivers up my back. THOSE were real men, fighting, living, eating, sleeping, bleeding and dieing in mud and still able to throw smiles once and awhile. I am a pussy in comparisson to those men.

[sabad66]

lol what the fuck does having an iphone have to do with being a pussy? technology is there so why not utilize it? I'm sure people born in the "non pussy days" would definitely choose no world war and sweet technology over what they had...just cuz we got lucky and weren't born/raised in a shitty era we are pussies? grow up dude.

[TorqueDog]

Originally posted by euphoria
The Pussyfication of Canada?

http://forums.beyond.ca/st/251487/the-pussyfication-of-canada-part-1/ This.

[sexualbanana]

Here's my view on the state of 'manhood' in today's society; brace yourselves.....

The state of manhood is in peril. No, it is not because guys like wearing girls jeans and seem to be an excessive amount of time on their hair and appearance - there is nothing wrong in taking pride in your appearance. Well, it's not entirely because of that. It's because now, it's become taboo for a man to want to act like a man in a traditional sense. If we had a desire to want to be the main income source in a family, what was once called a model family, is now called domestic shackling.

In fact, the traditional man has become the butt of mainstream entertainment. Sitcoms about families are typically centred on the male head of the family and their inability to parent. Everybody Loves Raymond and According to Jim com to mind.

[Blacura]

I think if you asked any "man" whose gone through war, pandemic or famine, he'd give his life so his offspring do not have to endure it.

[mowglee]

Originally posted by speedog
Y'all have iphones or blackberries? Really? My last phone was a simple Nokia brick - didn't need or want the smartphone stuff. But ppl now a days figure that they need all that instant contact - as an example, we had a 20 year old girl who used to work for us who said her next cell phone had to be a smartphone with full internet capabilities. Why is beyond me - I own my own busniess (with my wife) and still haven't seen the need for a smartphone. Priorities I guess.

Kids driving at 16 without working a day in their life - not in my family. While my oldest has been driving since 16, he also was working a couple of years before that and currently holds down 3 part time jobs as well as being in grade 12 and on the high school football and wrestliong teams. Next one coming up (grade 10) already following in brother's footsteps. Kids and yourself are what you make of them/yourself - you can choose to give your kids (and yourself) all the toys in the world without expecting them how to earn such things or you can actually teach them about life and how to be independant and respectful of others and also of what they have.

Doesn't take a war or depression to teach responsibility or respect or what the value of a dollar is. Takes good parenting and after getting out from the nest, continuing to practice those learned ideals as a decent adult human being.

excellent post. there are a lot of parents that should learn from you.

I do see what OP is saying though. I'm working part-time while going to school and starting my second part-time job within the next week or so. I refuse to take out student loans so I have to have money for everything I need. I see people I go to school with that are driving brand new accords, civics, mustangs, etc., have mommy and daddy pay for their tuition, and still complain about being in debt or not having any money. There are a lot of younger people that don't know the value of a dollar and I think it all comes down to what speedog said - parenting. Parents that are successful and had a tough time growing up want to give their children the life they never had, but it looks like some parents want to give a bit too much (spoiling). obviously there are kids going to get spoiled wherever you go but the money bag that Calgary is, it shows a lot more.

[speedog]

Ya know, I will readily admit that I am not the perfect parent, but my parents in raising 5 boys in the 60's/70's in small southern Alberta towns had to make every penny count - money was tight. My wife - same thing for her as her parents were entrepreneurs and saw some really lean times. Guess that taught us both well about the value of a dollar and it's something we're trying to instill in ours kids. That said, my kids have more than I did as a kid - living in a large city has afforded them some of these opportunities.

But I also see some many 9/10/11/12/13 year olds with cell phones - don't get it myself. Our eldest only got his first cellphone when he was 16 and only because he got his driver's license and was now driving himself to wrestling practice or work and we felt his own cellphone would allow him to be able to call if he was in need of assistance - of note, he has paid for everything with regards to his cellphone since day one of getting it. Good education for him when he has received bills with excess data charges or excess texting charges. Problem is that we know some many family and friends who just hand their kids cellphones on a silver platter - hell, we know one family where the 15 year old daughter racked up over $2,500 in her first month and the cell phone was taken away for only 2 days. Some lesson learned there I'll bet.

Student loans - I'm okay with them as long as they're used for going to school. I never had one as I had worked enough through high school to put myself through 2 years of SAIT including rent and all living expenses. Our kids - the deal is they can stay at home rent and food free while going to college/tech school/university. Tuition and books they're gonna be responsible for as well as their transportation. This, though, is sadly not the norm with most parents that we know - silver spoons (multiples actually) seem to be all the rage with most parents that we know and the affected kids, they don't seem to have any respect for what they have. Free cell phones/Ipods/etc - almost a given and some kids we know even are expecting an almost new if not new vehicle to be given to them upon graduating high school if not sooner. That'll teach those kids the value of a dollar for sure.

[msommers]

I always get a kick out of threads like these when they come up, or even when the older folks like to lecture me about how great I have it. Well guess what, I'm fucking grateful I don't have to see my lifelong buddy die in a trench in a foreign country or work 10 jobs to pay for school and live on my own because it's 'normal' to leave when you're 17. I'm grateful that my parents have worked very hard for what we have and are sharing that with me. I'm grateful we don't have to eat baked beans for 3 weeks because dad couldn't get a job at the dockyard.

Technology is making life more efficient but unfortunately more complex. Wow, I have a fucking iPhone and you had a cassette player when you were 13. When you were 13 you probably weren't as stressed out as a 13 year old is in this day and age. Everything has its pros and cons. A lot of 'men' think psychological issues are for the pussies of this world. Stress is a contributing factor to MANY health related problems, and is often undervalued a overlooked as a real issue.

The big 'pussification' of kids today is because of the parents, not because of the fucking kids! Spoiling your children and not teaching value is the fucking problem. Does that mean lecturing them about, "when I was your age I didn't have fuck all" ? I guess that's up to the parent but personally think it's a terrible idea. There are other ways to instill hard work and value ideologies into your children's minds. That being said, I also think helping your children in some financial matters will help them in the long run. Maybe our family is different, but I've never understood the parent mentality of, "I had to suffer when I was your age, and so I'm going to make you do the same." I think there is a big difference children should learn between getting help, and expecting something.

And it's not a purse, it's satchel:rofl:

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by msommers
I think there is a big difference children should learn between getting help, and expecting something.



'I want my kids to have enough to do anything, but not so much they can do nothing.'--Warren Buffet (paraphrased anyway)

[Mys73ri0]

.

[Legless_Marine2]

Originally posted by hattonlynch
what do you guys think?


It's not just men - It's everyone. We lead a comparatively safe and comfortable life in North America, and few appreciate it. We are increasingly complacent.

We spend the bulk of our time hand-wringing about made-up threats or social status, yet we've got central heating, running water, and full cupboards - Which is more than most of our grandparents had.

[Toma]

Definitely, as a whole, men are becoming less manly.

Exhibiting much less responsibility, and more entitlement.

You see it everywhere.

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by mucat


It is a european carry all!! european carry al!!


Nope, sorry, it's a purse. :D

I think a lot of men are softer today compared to 30 or 40 years ago but so is the rest of society. A benefit of this is that it creates more opportunities for those with the stones to put in the work & get ahead. Less competition.

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by sexualbanana


In fact, the traditional man has become the butt of mainstream entertainment. Sitcoms about families are typically centred on the male head of the family and their inability to parent. Everybody Loves Raymond and According to Jim com to mind.

I don't know if that's actually any different than 20 or 30 years ago. Archie Bunker? Fred Flintstone? There was one with Jackie Gleason as a hot-headed bus driver (I think) "to the moon, Alice!".

[Crymson]

Times change.

The world is reflecting that fact that blue collar work is being replaced by white collar work.

Violence and spousal abuse is no longer tolerated by our society.

We no longer tolerate aggression by our leaders and will not submit to conscription.

Technology has connected the world in a way that is alleviating ignorance.

Religion is slowly being replaced by the rule of logic and humanity.

These are not bad things, our fathers and grandfathers fought for these things. Wether we're grateful or not, it is their legacy.

We are NOT repeating the mistakes of our past, and perhaps the last 2 generations of Canadians are the only people in the history of humanity who can claim that. No wars? great. Massive social change? Equality? Bring it on, hopefully we can keep on track. I don't like skinny pants though, but hey, keep it real.

[GOnSHO]

Originally posted by kertejud2


'I want my kids to have enough to do anything, but not so much they can do nothing.'--Warren Buffet (paraphrased anyway)

QFT!!!

[mucat]

Originally posted by Masked Bandit



Nope, sorry, it's a purse. :D

I think a lot of men are softer today compared to 30 or 40 years ago but so is the rest of society. A benefit of this is that it creates more opportunities for those with the stones to put in the work & get ahead. Less competition.

Jerry: Your good friend is morbidly obese.

George: Well, at least, I'm not carrying a purse.

Jerry: It's not a purse. It's European!

[syeve]

This image represents all that is wrong in our society.

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/1395/gotti35qr.png

[Legless_Marine2]

Originally posted by syeve
This image represents all that is wrong in our society.



Hear, hear.

[Legless_Marine2]

Originally posted by Crymson
Times change.

The world is reflecting that fact that blue collar work is being replaced by white collar work.

Violence and spousal abuse is no longer tolerated by our society.

We no longer tolerate aggression by our leaders and will not submit to conscription.

Technology has connected the world in a way that is alleviating ignorance.

Religion is slowly being replaced by the rule of logic and humanity.

These are not bad things, our fathers and grandfathers fought for these things. Wether we're grateful or not, it is their legacy.

We are NOT repeating the mistakes of our past, and perhaps the last 2 generations of Canadians are the only people in the history of humanity who can claim that. No wars? great. Massive social change? Equality? Bring it on, hopefully we can keep on track. I don't like skinny pants though, but hey, keep it real.

You have a very utopian view of the world.

Religion is not being replaced by logic, but by materialism. In fact, with declining education standards, few people have an understanding of what logic is, confusing it with Vulcan stoicism.

Technology has connected the world technologically, but disconnected us interpersonally.

Our own leaders are currently involved in a war of aggression against a pathetic nation of third world goat farmers who couldn't even find Canada on a map.

Blue collar may have been replaced by white collar, but that doesn't necessarily mean easier. The utopian promise of the 10 hour work-week never materialized - Instead, a lot of people just got unemployed.

[snoop101]

I agree that we have changed a lot. I would say things have changed a lot in the last 10-15 years. When I was 15 we got a job and by 16 we were working full time. When we worked we worked hard and respected our boss and he respected us. He would train us on being a manager and teach us accounting. Now its seems (maybe because its a bigger city) that even managers have no clue what they are doing. My fiance works in retail fashion and even now during the hard times they still have 19-20 year olds that come in an demand a decent wage to be a clothing sales person and they have really no experience.

I also think that Females have changed alot too. When my mom grew up it was normal that her mom tought her to cook and bake. Also cleaning the house was second nature. Now a days it seems that more Men are cooking in the house hold. This is probably due to the fact that both mom and dads are working and dont have time for that kind of stuff, but you would think with all the holiday time off's and with all the new "technology" that they would be able to spend more time with there kids.

[Legless_Marine2]

Originally posted by snoop101

This is probably due to the fact that both mom and dads are working and dont have time for that kind of stuff, but you would think with all the holiday time off's and with all the new "technology" that they would be able to spend more time with there kids.

It seems that so many are working harder just to make ends meet. You're right - One income used to be enough for a household, but now we need two. People at the lower end of the income scale work multiple jobs.

Why are we getting less back for more effort?

What gives?

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by Legless_Marine2


It seems that so many are working harder just to make ends meet. You're right - One income used to be enough for a household, but now we need two. People at the lower end of the income scale work multiple jobs.

Why are we getting less back for more effort?

What gives?

I don't think we are working harder to make ends meet at all. I think we (society) are living "higher on the hog" than our parents did. I grew up in a 1000 square foot house with four of us (parents & brother) with dad's work truck and mom's car (rebuilt title). One vacation from the time I was born until my honeymoon. How many families run like that now?

There's been all this talk about technology. We had no internet to pay for, cell phone to pay for, one TV in the house. That "shit" all adds up.

[snoop101]

Originally posted by Legless_Marine2


It seems that so many are working harder just to make ends meet. You're right - One income used to be enough for a household, but now we need two. People at the lower end of the income scale work multiple jobs.

Why are we getting less back for more effort?

What gives?

True, but I think things have changed too. My parents worked there butts off and bought a house then lived in that house for over 20 years. Back then interest was a lot I think in the mid teens my dad was saying. Now a days I think that people want more. They buy a small house and 2-3 years later they sell and by another. They have to have a 50k car, have atleast 20k on there visa, and have student loans.

Also whats funny is back in the day it was normal to have a family of 4-6 kids. Now a days its 1-2 kids. The moms back then were busy people, but they didnt complain like now a days.

[Darkane]

Yes, we have.

I believe our LIFE experience is severely lacking.

I believe our CHARACTER is severely lacking.

I believe our MORALS are severely lacking.

Our honor, courage and loyalty has declined.

I can only live my life the way I want, so I will. Like a man.

Others can do whatever the fuck they want as long as it in no way interferes with me or my family.

[Crymson]

Blame metrosexuality on 40 years of the pill


http://trak.in/news/the-pill-turns-women-off-macho-men/11631/

[Xtrema]

http://www.japanprobe.com/2007/12/13/40-of-japanese-men-sit-down-to-pee/

Another indication

[1barA4]

Originally posted by Xtrema
http://www.japanprobe.com/2007/12/13/40-of-japanese-men-sit-down-to-pee/

Another indication

To be fair, you cannot take a Western mindset and apply it to the East. Remember, it may be more natural for Japanese men to squat or sit to pee if they're used to the squat toilets over there:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squat_toilet

So the inclination to sit/squat versus standing to even urinate is more cultural than an indication of masculinity.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by 1barA4


To be fair, you cannot take a Western mindset and apply it to the East. Remember, it may be more natural for Japanese men to squat or sit to pee if they're used to the squat toilets over there:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squat_toilet

So the inclination to sit/squat versus standing to even urinate is more cultural than an indication of masculinity.

It's the trend. You can't really call it cultural when it went from 15% to 49% in just 7 short years.

to add this this thread:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3422/3901894376_19ceb4257d_b.jpg

[JfuckinC]

Originally posted by Darkane
Yes, we have.

I believe our LIFE experience is severely lacking.

I believe our CHARACTER is severely lacking.

I believe our MORALS are severely lacking.

Our honor, courage and loyalty has declined.

I can only live my life the way I want, so I will. Like a man.

Others can do whatever the fuck they want as long as it in no way interferes with me or my family.


agree'd.

i'll admit im way lazier than my Dad. My dads a mans man, guy can build fix do anything. i do pick up his experience and learn a lot from him, but im so fucking lazy who knows if i will ever use any of it? I still believe guys should do everything for girls (minus laundry and cooking?) but i look at some of my friends and i just laugh. some cant swing a hammer for christ sake? change a tire?? no way! then they'd get their true religions dirty? go camping? what without a shower? fuck no! :rolleyes:
it kills me lol

[pyroza]

I don't know. I'm grateful that my mom is a hard worker and is able to help me out with school tuition...

Don't see what's wrong with helping out your kids so they can have a good life. I do agree with not spoiling them so much that they won't be able to provide for themselves though.

[D. Dub]

Originally posted by Supa Dexta
Guys wear tight pants and carry purses nowadays.. nough said.

Not to mention using hair products and cosmetics.

Once you've moisturized -- you may as well grow a vagina.

[Diocletian]

THis thread is funny. People throughout the ages have looked at their ancestors as being capable of earthshaking things. The reality is, however, that people really haven't changed all that much through the ages. We are still guided by the same forces that have driven men for the past 200,000 years.

[msommers]

Originally posted by Diocletian
We are still guided by the same forces that have driven men for the past 200,000 years. Vag works in mysterious ways.

[Diocletian]

Originally posted by Legless_Marine2



You have a very utopian view of the world.

Religion is not being replaced by logic, but by materialism. In fact, with declining education standards, few people have an understanding of what logic is, confusing it with Vulcan stoicism.

Technology has connected the world technologically, but disconnected us interpersonally.

Our own leaders are currently involved in a war of aggression against a pathetic nation of third world goat farmers who couldn't even find Canada on a map.

Blue collar may have been replaced by white collar, but that doesn't necessarily mean easier. The utopian promise of the 10 hour work-week never materialized - Instead, a lot of people just got unemployed.

What is this dribble?

Declining education standards? There are more university educated people in the world today than ever before. Also, how exactly do you define educated? Are we talking about western education ideas?

Yes our leaders are involved in wars against weaker nations in the middle east... how is this any different than ages past? Rome, france, spain, England, Egypt ect ect all were often involved in wars against other groups/nations (often ones far weaker than them). So what has changed?

[Diocletian]

Originally posted by Toma
Definitely, as a whole, men are becoming less manly.

Exhibiting much less responsibility, and more entitlement.

You see it everywhere.

Define "manly?. Every culture has had different opinions about how a "man" should be.

[Antonito]

I could care less about what guys put in their hair or wear or carry, it's all fashion and has less than nothing to do with what a person really is.

I don't hope that the economic troubles go on for much longer, but a healthy side-effect has been the wake up calls to a lot of people that things won't be handed to them, or that even if they work for it, they aren't always guaranteed everything they want, because life isn't always fair.

At my work we fired all the self-important lazy douchebags months ago, and we're left with a pretty good crew of hard working guys. In the last month we've worked some ridiculous hours to keep things on track, so I have a lot of respect for these guys, but they need to realise that we're still not guaranteed a job right now. Another couple bad jobs/clients where we get fucked out of money by bankruptcy or just shady cocksuckers, and we're done. Close up shop. And the guys just don't believe it. They're working their asses off, how could they not keep having jobs?

But today I picked up our monthly draw from the general contractor and looked at the amount through the envelope, and some quick calculations show that this won't even cover our payroll, because I know that behind the scenes we're getting stabbed in the back on all this extra work we're having to do. On the project I was on before this one we're still waiting for the last 30% of the contract because the owner fled the country after the buyers walked away from their deposits. Hell, we're waiting for our holdback on jobs from 3 years ago.

This isn't even about the douches that expect cars at 16 and $80k a year testing video games, it's about people knowing that they have to have a back-up plan for stuff that is out of their control.

[CUG]

Originally posted by ZorroAMG


I'll have a bigger and faster gun. ;) If you can lift it out of your belt, you weak unmanly vagina boy.

[barmanjay]

*cue patriotic background music*

Am I a pussy?

I've worked 36 hours straight to unload 100,000+ lbs of fish from various, deep sea draggers to trawlers and gill netters back to back.

I have ridden 4 meter chop in a 35 foot trawler during 40 mph gail force winds, having to climb a 20 foot mast with no safety harness to unhook the stabilizer rigging so we dont capsize.

I've ridden the back of a 52 foot steel bellied prawn trap longliner on 5 meter seas blowing over the bow. Up at 5 and in bed at 11 everyday, 3 weeks at a time.

I've slung beer with the toughest of loggers and broken up fights to save the face for the next drinking day, infact taking a few blows to the head.

I've framed delivered drywall, hung drywall and taped various basements,... myself in just a matter of weeks




since the internet arrived,...


now I sit on a computer all day, can't live without my smart phone, and am an absolute terrible driver.

I am asian and,..

Yes I ,..... am a pussy.

because there is no bloody way I would ever do those other things again - they are just too damned hard.

[CUG]

^^^ You've put in your time sir. *slow clap*

[Diocletian]

While there are some good points in this thread most of it has been a bunch of young men trying to sound like they are more macho than the last poster by announcing how hard his physical labour job is. Personally I'm not sure that having to work a physical labour job because you lack education or intellect makes you more of a man.

[barmanjay]

damnit,.. i should've added the captain morgan pose to my post!!!

and a poster of me as one of the 4 guys

[95EagleAWD]

Originally posted by CUG
If you can lift it out of your belt, you weak unmanly vagina boy.

:rofl: :rofl:

Nicely said!

[GREENBOY]

Originally posted by Diocletian
While there are some good points in this thread most of it has been a bunch of young men trying to sound like they are more macho than the last poster by announcing how hard his physical labour job is. Personally I'm not sure that having to work a physical labour job because you lack education or intellect makes you more of a man.

What work a person does has nothing to do with education or intellect. I know people who've put in lots of education time to work on construction sites in technical roles and some really intelligent guys who do basic physical jobs because they love what they do and who they work with and earn great money. Different strokes etc.

[snoop101]

Originally posted by GREENBOY

some really intelligent guys who do basic physical jobs because they love what they do and who they work with and earn great money. Different strokes etc.

Or they went to school thinking that they will get this nice high paying job and they can sit back and then realize that theres more to getting a good job then a paper with your grades on it.

Back in the days people went to school to learn a specific trade. Now a days you ask people who are 2-3 years in to school and they say I dunno what I want to do, im just taking classes for now.

[syeve]

I think there is a big difference between "being" strong and actually being a man. The biggest, toughest guys I know are generally overcompensating for their short comings and are the most self-involved and shallow people around (note pictures of dudes flexing and posting pictures on the web). A strong man is one who works, plays and lives hard, not caring what your t-shirt says, or if your sideways hat and Gucci glasses match. If you spend all your time in the gym with other dudes, you're doing it wrong. :D

flame suit on.

[jahobo]

great thread. and i do think were all pussies.

if you using that your parents had it harder than you did. well they had it easier than their parents so their pussies, and your grandparents were pussies compared to their parents.

dont look back 50 60 70 years and decide, look back all the way and youll see that everyone was a pussy.

so for all those who were complaining about how this generation is full of pussies, your pussies to the generations before you.

i cant imagine being in the 1800s before the industrial revolution. man those guys probably though the peeps after the industrial revolutions were pussies.

[barmanjay]

I respect my dad! Infact his life story almost makes me cry everytime I think about it.

He is a TRUE MAN - no pussy there!

He bacame the head of his household at the age of 12 during some kind of korean war

Father died an alcoholic, mother died young from a penicillin allergy.

He looked after his 2 younger sisters and great great grandmother. Scalped opera tickets to military, sometimes going through the trash to find good food to feed his sisters

Studied hard, and had an opportunity to move to the states and go to university sponsored by the military at age 20 through a competition. 3000 people entered,.. he was 1 of 100 selected to immigrate (top 1% of the exam)

Studied geology, became a geologist, met my mom, had me and became a taxi driver to pay the bills and stay home.

Started a courier business,.. made it big back in the 70's (IOTA then IPX).

Brought his sisters and their families over.

Started a PC building business (PROTEUS),.. went bankrupt, Parents divorced, he reluctantly gave up everything for us kids (gave everything to my mom including businessess) and paid child support to boot.

Started at the bottom as a used car salesman

Then went into commodoties trading,.. made it big again,.. then bankrupt again.

Started another business/publication. He is 76 and still doing it, even during and after major heart surgery.

He lives now to see his grandchildren.

I admire his spirit *I'm literally tearing up right now*

Not once has he ever strayed from supporting his family. that was his #1 - himself came 2nd.

He just recently finally spoiled himself and bought a used volvo

[lilmira]

Wow, that's quite a story to tell.

Previous generation will always have a harder life than the next in general as long as we are progressing in science and technology. I don't ignore what they have contributed and I truly appreciate their sacrifice. But I don't like it when they put it on me like I have a choice to live now and have it the easy way. When the time comes that we need to pick up our weapons and defend ourselves, I'm sure most of us would do the same just like our grandfathers and great grandfathers did.

Should we compare ourselves to cave people during stone age too? They barely lived past 30.

[hattonlynch]

Originally posted by barmanjay
I respect my dad! Infact his life story almost makes me cry everytime I think about it.

He is a TRUE MAN - no pussy there!

He bacame the head of his household at the age of 12 during some kind of korean war

Father died an alcoholic, mother died young from a penicillin allergy.

He looked after his 2 younger sisters and great great grandmother. Scalped opera tickets to military, sometimes going through the trash to find good food to feed his sisters

Studied hard, and had an opportunity to move to the states and go to university sponsored by the military at age 20 through a competition. 3000 people entered,.. he was 1 of 100 selected to immigrate (top 1% of the exam)

Studied geology, became a geologist, met my mom, had me and became a taxi driver to pay the bills and stay home.

Started a courier business,.. made it big back in the 70's (IOTA then IPX).

Brought his sisters and their families over.

Started a PC building business (PROTEUS),.. went bankrupt, Parents divorced, he reluctantly gave up everything for us kids (gave everything to my mom including businessess) and paid child support to boot.

Started at the bottom as a used car salesman

Then went into commodoties trading,.. made it big again,.. then bankrupt again.

Started another business/publication. He is 76 and still doing it, even during and after major heart surgery.

He lives now to see his grandchildren.

I admire his spirit *I'm literally tearing up right now*

Not once has he ever strayed from supporting his family. that was his #1 - himself came 2nd.

He just recently finally spoiled himself and bought a used volvo
sounds like a badass dude to be totally honest.

[hattonlynch]

i do agree with most of this thread though. its getting pretty sad when males in the 20-28 year old age bracket care more about clothes, accessories, then making money and building character. also, basically none of my friends can do any sort of handyman shit which is pretty fuckin pathetic.

[qcp1]

[This is taken from many sources and adding my own take as well]

My mother smoked. In many of my friends' homes, both parents smoked. We're all in our 30s now.

As a teen I helped insulate our new home with asbestos. I have no related health problems.

My parents were too poor to own a crib so babies slept in an open dresser drawer, all paint had lead, no one cared. I played with goddam mercury. (yes i did) im healthy today.

There were no childproof locks or tamperproof bottles. Somehow we survived. We played street hockey with a rock when we couldnt find our rock hard ball, and no pads.

we went halloweening with out our parents, with a pillowcase, a plastic mask you couldnt see out of and we all looked like stay puft so we could stay out all night. we didnt even know Reflective tape had been invented.

We rode bikes without helmets. When we crashed we dusted ourselves off, and continued riding. We had banana seat bicycles, and Rookie cards werent for collecting but for the motorbike sound they made when taped into your spokes, cars were altogether different, there were no seatbelts or air bags. We rode in the backs of pickup trucks with the dogs. no one had cars in high school. the parking lots always had empty spaces.

We skinned our knees, scraped our legs and got grass stains. mud was fun. we buried all our hotwheels in the playground or stole a hammer to make them look like they were crushed by a monster truck, we took sharp steak knives to make box forts, if we were stupid enough to cut ourselves our parents gave us a bandaid if we had them, we never had them so the mouth became the incubator until the bleeding stopped.

We got sick, and chicken soup was yesterdays antibiotics. Our tv had a dial and i was the remote. I never learned what UHF meant. Hardly anyone had a VCR. We woke up at 6am on saturday to watch mask and gi-joe. We stole sears catalogs for the underwear ads as girls started to interest us.

We drank pop, ate Popsicles and candy bars when we could scrounge them and virtually no one was overweight because we were outside from dawn to dusk, running and playing.

There were no TVs, Game Boys, video games, cell phones or computers. People who were lucky enough to have a phone (we had one because my dad was self-employed) shared a party line with other households. If we wanted to talk to our friends, we walked to their houses. that was called calling on them.

Our parents knew the neighbors, no-one knows anyone anymore.

Many of my friends, like me, walked miles to school, We had keys on shoelaces tied around our neck and went home everyday without incidence.

We played outside, and video games were a thing to relieve the time until we could play outside again, or when we had sleepovers. We played Tag on playground equipment that featured broken splintered wood not foam padded plastic, with gravel and wood chips below not ground rubber, stray dogs were pettable. we played until called for dinner.

When we got into a fight everyone ran, no one pulled a knife, you didnt call your friends and they didnt jump in, when you both exhausted yourselves beating the shit out of each other you picked the other guy up and usually ended up friends.

We broke limbs which wasnt so bad because then you got a cast which even the pretty girl who you secretely admired would sign aside from that girls had germs and were not to be talked to. We threw rocks at beehives and climbed fences, we shoveled snow for a dollar in 40 below until dark.

We made up games. We ran with scissors and sharp sticks. we even threw them at friends

We rode sleighs and go-carts down hills lined with trees, shrubs, bushes and ROCKS. We expected minor injuries and often received them. No one thought of suing the city or the property owner. Risks were a part of life.

Moms held babies in their arms in the front seats of cars. car seats were unheard of and riding in the front was a special thing not dangerous.

We could go downtown all day on a dollar bus fare, and no one worried about us. There must have been kids with allergies, but they kept quiet about it. You climbed trees, built a treehouse using a real hammer and real nails by the time you were 7. You had snow fights which seemed to last until everyone got frostbite. snow was stuffed down kids necks.

When Little League came along, not everyone made the team. There was no 6th place trophy or medal competition was the name of the game and not everyone was the best. We had to learn to deal with failure.

Those who couldn't keep up in school were held back a grade. now theyre forced through.

You tell me whats different?

Now we have schools banning peanut butter sandwiches, cities proposing to ban perfumes in public. taking out all playground equipment (whens the last time you saw a merry go round), playgrounds lay empty, diving boards are being taken out of pools. playground zones go 10 miles past the playground (we learned to watch for cars not the other way around) dogs are being banned for fear they bite a kid who pulls its tail.

The idea of parents defending children caught doing something wrong at school or in the community was unheard of. We were punished, publicly and privately.

Before lawyers and governments and especially parents began to over-regulate and protect us against every real or imagined aspect of existence, we lived a life with rough edges and we turned out pretty darn good.

[syeve]

WERD...I had a fantastic fearless childhood...my kids are going to have orange and black day and speed limits on bike paths.

[masoncgy]

Originally posted by Diocletian
Personally I'm not sure that having to work a physical labour job because you lack education or intellect makes you more of a man.

Uhhh... so every person out there that does a physically demanding job is stupid & uneducated? Do you honestly believe that?

I spent years working in an office environment, in senior management, making great money... but you know, I find the whole office atmosphere to be poisonous... it really takes a toll on a person.

So I gave it up... and now I work in physically demanding but well paying jobs... and I absolutely love it. I wouldn't go back to my old line of work, or an office period, for anything.

Here's to a stress-free, loser-free, great paying career! :thumbsup: