Subaru 216A (version to Toyota FT-86) confirmed with turbo + AWD

[jwocky]

from http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99

2.0L turbo motor with AWD. Will also be bigger and heavier than the Toyota FT-86 and more expensive too.

Pretty nice looking car though.

:hitit: :hitit:

[RickDaTuner]

if The transmission is going to be anything like the STi, converting this car to RWD will take 25min and 450 bucks, which would be just as reversible...

hmmm now, will this car make it to NA?

[randedge]

Hmmmn...

My first thougth was: Is Subaru going to scrap the STI in favour of this for WRC? Just as Toyota went with Corolla after ditching the Celica chassis after it kept getting fatter.

Would be awesome.

[dj_honda]

the subaru front looks too much like a g35/genesis etc. i like the styling of the toyota better. sti engine swap in the ft86? :D

[CSMRX7]

:thumbsup: I think I prefer the looks of the toyota though.

[cityhunter2501]

3 million yen ~ US$32,000
so around CAD$36,000?

almost same price as a wrx265


damn...I want one

[JfuckinC]

Looks great :love:

[SR240SX]

Looks pretty damn close to a genisis...front and rear....

[bituerbo]

Feck. I thought the goal of this project was to keep the vehicles affordable, around the $22k USD mark. $30k is too much and would drive me away. Any word on kerbweights? I did read in the article that subaru version will be 100kg heavier.

Are we still not to receive the Toyota version in the USDM market or has that changed?

+I don't see where they plan to put the front axles unless they protrude from the trans at a 45 degree angle forwards.

[clem24]

Originally posted by SR240SX
Looks pretty damn close to a genisis...front and rear....

I disagree. It looks nothing like the Genesis Coupe. If anything, the lines and shape are more reminiscent of the Mercedes CLS.

Another thing to consider: cars may look similar in pictures, but in real life, it's probably another story. The Genesis Coupe is MASSIVE. It is as long as my Legacy GT Wagon and seemingly wider. This car is the exact opposite.

[RecoilS14]

I thought the Toyota looked good. This thing looks AMAZING!!!! I would buy one if they came to canada!

[heavyD]

7tune.com is the national enquirer of the automotive industry. Take this all with a grain of salt until an official announcement.

[remarx-j]

reminds me of a old G35 coupe from the back :dunno:

[jsn]

Love it. Definitely able to tell its a subaru with that huge hoodscoop on the roof

[mac_82]

:hitit:

[DannyO]

Depending on how this comes out in production and what numbers it can put down, I think I may find myself on the list to buy one.

[freshprince1]

Gorgeous. I've always had a fetish for Subaru's, it's nice that the cars are finally starting to look better too.

[94boosted]

So this would effectivley be almost like a 2 door STi :drool: :drool: :drool: I've been dreaming of such a thing ever since 2004. STi AWD power/practicality/traction roled into a nice tight 2 door package :clap:

They say this thing will be 100kg more than the FT-86 not sure how much that thing weighs I just hope it doesnt become a fat cow of a car like so many of the new fast coupes are. I hope they can keep it under 3500lbs

[IntegraG2]

i like the looks of it...an STi version would be sick.

[DannyO]

Originally posted by 94boosted
I hope they can keep it under 3500lbs

If this is all true, the FT86 is supposed to be around 2800lbs, so this should be around 3000lbs.

[v2kai]

:drool: this might be the first brand spanking new car i'd want to buy:clap: hope it comes to canada

[jwocky]

Originally posted by DannyO


If this is all true, the FT86 is supposed to be around 2800lbs, so this should be around 3000lbs.

I thought the FT86 was suppsoed to be less than that. That's heavy for a smalla** car.

[94boosted]

Originally posted by DannyO


If this is all true, the FT86 is supposed to be around 2800lbs, so this should be around 3000lbs.
2800lbs for a RWD modern car with all of the airbags sound deadening, safety reinforcements........ I highly doubt that, it would be nice err really nice but I highly doubt that. Take the Genesis coupe with the 4-banger that thing still ways 3300lbs :dunno:



Originally posted by jwocky


I thought the FT86 was suppsoed to be less than that. That's heavy for a smalla** car.

2800lbs is not at all heavy for newer cars lol. My Cobalt SS is 2900ish lbs and it's a FWD and that's still fairly light

[DannyO]

Originally posted by 94boosted

2800lbs for a RWD modern car with all of the airbags sound deadening, safety reinforcements........ I highly doubt that, it would be nice err really nice but I highly doubt that. Take the Genesis coupe with the 4-banger that thing still ways 3300lbs :dunno:

It would be extremely light for todays cars, I can't remember where I read it now, but the info came out after the announcement from Toyota about it, it was in a spec sheet about the specs of the car, hopefully the info isn't bogus.
I did read alot that Toyota were trying to aim for a ~2800lb car from many sources.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by heavyD
7tune.com is the national enquirer of the automotive industry. Take this all with a grain of salt until an official announcement.

I was about the say the same. Can't believe they call this confirmed when we have not even seen a Subaru concept yet.


Originally posted by DannyO
I did read alot that Toyota were trying to aim for a ~2800lb car from many sources.

Civic Si is 2954lbs. It will be some voodoo magic to make it 2800lbs with extra shaft to drive the rear wheels and keeping it a 2+2.

The only weight saving I can think of is full aluminum body which will never happen @ this price point.

[redevil]

Hmmm, I really like the look. If only my wife would let me have two door car. :nut:

[Deckard]

UGH, I'm so tired of all of this speculation. Nobody even knows anything about the Toyota version yet (well, nothing substantial, at least) and we're already gossiping about the Subaru? Pointless. Seriously, every single magazine has a new one of these rumors and renders every week, and all they try to do is one-up each other with 'information' that they probably got out of a guy that works in a fucking loading dock. We're not even going to see this thing in concept form for another year (at least the Subaru edition) and the details on the FT-86 production version likely won't come soon either so this is all just a massive waste of time.

I love the idea behind the FT-86, and if they can keep it between 2500-2800lbs (obviously 2500lbs is wishful thinking), with 200-240hp, it'll be a dream and likely a huge success. Hell, it'll only be out in 2-3 years anyway, and if everything goes well and they manage to hit somewhere within those targets, I'll almost definitely be looking at one very, very long and hard. The Subaru version is a bit confusing though, because it seems like they're not really sure what to do with it, or perhaps they're just conflicted. It would be great if they just left it as is, RWD instead of AWD, kept the weight down, and did an STi model with a next-gen EJ25 (as has been "rumored" by everyone and their dog), but obviously that's a bit at odds with their marketing plan, and it seems that they're going to stubbornly stick with that. Making the car ~3000 lbs isn't going to be a HUGE deal (assuming they can do that with the AWD system in place and after the numerous safety regulations are met), as it'll still be relatively light, but making it taller, longer, and extending the wheelbase...uh...what? Why? Why mess with a perfectly good, classic setup? I'm hoping they just keep it simple...

[Deckard]

Double post. FML.

[dino_martini]

I don't think Subaru should associate the STI name with this car. But that is my opinion.

Otherwise I think its pretty dope.

[psycoticclown]

If this does come here... I know what my next car is :love:

[simplyRed]

Originally posted by dino_martini
I don't think Subaru should associate the STI name with this car. But that is my opinion.

Otherwise I think its pretty dope.
subaru tecnica international is a division of themselves. It isn't weather subaru should associate the STI name with the car it is if subaru tecnica international want to associate their name with this subaru.

If we see it at all in NA it will be a while after the 2011 release date for the JDM. Then we will see Subaru turbo versions before we see an STI version. Just like we do for the WRX to the WRX STI and the Legacy GT to the Legacy GT Spec B.

So don't anybody go selling their car yet, you will be several year older before you even have a chance to see this thing, let alone own one.

click on the STI Hompage (http://www.subaru-sti.co.jp/e/) to see the STI division of Fuji Heavy Industries.

[mowglee]

I like the subie better than the toyota. The hood scoop looks like sex on it, and blue on gold is a killer combo

[LilDrunkenSmurf]

Originally posted by bituerbo
Feck. I thought the goal of this project was to keep the vehicles affordable, around the $22k USD mark. $30k is too much and would drive me away. Any word on kerbweights? I did read in the article that subaru version will be 100kg heavier.

Are we still not to receive the Toyota version in the USDM market or has that changed?

+I don't see where they plan to put the front axles unless they protrude from the trans at a 45 degree angle forwards.


The toyota is the one that's supposed to be ~22K USD

The subaru is going to be turbo (vs toyota N/A), AWD (vs toyota RWD) among other things.

And I wouldn't be surprised if an STi version of this comes out shortly after the turbo model rolls out. Maybe they'll even name this the new impreza when all is said and done? Mind you thats pure speculation. But the GD chassis went from 02-07 (~5 years) so if the GR chassis goes the same amount.. 08-13, and we see this released around 2014... GX chassis? Hahaha.

[dino_martini]

Originally posted by simplyRed

subaru tecnica international is a division of themselves. It isn't weather subaru should associate the STI name with the car it is if subaru tecnica international want to associate their name with this subaru.

If we see it at all in NA it will be a while after the 2011 release date for the JDM. Then we will see Subaru turbo versions before we see an STI version. Just like we do for the WRX to the WRX STI and the Legacy GT to the Legacy GT Spec B.

So don't anybody go selling their car yet, you will be several year older before you even have a chance to see this thing, let alone own one.

click on the STI Hompage (http://www.subaru-sti.co.jp/e/) to see the STI division of Fuji Heavy Industries.

I understand that STI is a divison unto it self and all that. But my point is that when I hear 'STI' in terms of cars (not that other STI lol) I immediately picture a World Rally Blue, four door sports sedan.

I know there are STI' Legacy's and Forrester's in Japan and Europe, but for North America atleast I think it would be a mistake putting the STI label on this coupe.

Maybe they should bring it back as the SVX

[LilDrunkenSmurf]

I think it would honestly help w/ brand awareness to label something else w/ an STi badge.. People fail to realize it's not just an "STi", it's a WRX STi.. Sort of like a Civic Si vs a Civic..

It's just a variation on a model.

They also had STi's before ('94+/GC8) and I'm pretty sure not every single STi was a 4 door.

[clem24]

Originally posted by Deckard
The Subaru version is a bit confusing though, because it seems like they're not really sure what to do with it, or perhaps they're just conflicted. It would be great if they just left it as is, RWD instead of AWD, kept the weight down, and did an STi model with a next-gen EJ25

I don't agree with this. What's the fun with just making body changes to pretty much the same car and sell it as is? Then you get into the boring issue of whether you want to buy a Matrix or a Vibe. Yippee. Subaru Turbo AWD vs. Toyota NA RWD would be fantastic and give 2 completely different products for the market.

[LilDrunkenSmurf]

Subaru's line is built on being ALL AWD.. I doubt they will sell a RWD/FWD for a very very long time.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by clem24

Subaru Turbo AWD vs. Toyota NA RWD would be fantastic and give 2 completely different products for the market.


Agreed...

How long before we see Subaru badges on the much cheaper Toyota though :rofl:

[Deckard]

Originally posted by clem24


I don't agree with this. What's the fun with just making body changes to pretty much the same car and sell it as is? Then you get into the boring issue of whether you want to buy a Matrix or a Vibe. Yippee. Subaru Turbo AWD vs. Toyota NA RWD would be fantastic and give 2 completely different products for the market.
I get the Matrix/Vibe/badge engineering argument, but the thing is that all of the "proposed" Subaru version designs and specs are basically the anti-thesis of what this car is meant to be: a light, simple, sharp, affordable sports car. That's why the concept even has a third pedal.

I'm VERY excited for this car, but my biggest fear is that by the time the damn thing makes it to production, it'll be heavy, overcomplicated, underpowered and overpriced. It's got to be a relatively back-to-basics affair in order to be a success.

If the Toyota/Subaru brass decide to fit it (the Subaru version) with an AWD system and make it larger in every direction, they're going to be going AGAINST the very idea behind this car, and taking themselves out of what could possibly be HUGE sales. This car doesn't need huge power from the factory (although, again, something in the 240-250 range at the outside would not only be nice, but also somewhat realistic), an AWD system, and other miscellaneous bells and whistles to make it heavy and expensive. It needs to a simple, well-sorted and well put together classic sports car, because that's what we as enthusiasts need right now.

Originally posted by LilDrunkenSmurf
Subaru's line is built on being ALL AWD.. I doubt they will sell a RWD/FWD for a very very long time.
This is very true, but personally, I think it would be a mistake on their part. Things change, too; a few years ago Subaru's line "rally bred". Not so much the case now. Also, the word from people with greater mechanical knowledge than myself is that fitting an AWD system to this setup won't be easy; apparently doing so will require unique front/center diffs, etc... which would require a solid amount of R&D, which would then (in concert with a few other things, if all these "rumors" are true) would likely push the car into a rather pointless price range. Which would not only be going against the idea of the car itself (again), but also probably against Toyota and Subaru's bottom line, which I'm sure they wouldn't like at all.

[That.Guy.S30]

I would buy the toyota version. even tho i am a subaru nut. Why you ask? because of the lack of good subaru dealerships in this city. so in complete spite, i would buy the toyota version.

[LilDrunkenSmurf]

Deckard: But the problem is not the manufacturers, it's the laws. It's all the safety laws that are put into place, and then to put icing on the cake, there will probably never be a car designed with only the tuner/enthusiast in mind. In order to make these profitable, they will still have to have features to entice other demographics to consider them.

That's why cars will get heavier and heavier..

[Deckard]

Originally posted by LilDrunkenSmurf
Deckard: But the problem is not the manufacturers, it's the laws. It's all the safety laws that are put into place, and then to put icing on the cake, there will probably never be a car designed with only the tuner/enthusiast in mind. In order to make these profitable, they will still have to have features to entice other demographics to consider them.

That's why cars will get heavier and heavier..
I know why cars get heavier and heavier, but this car, in it's more or less basic form, is what enthusiasts have been screaming for for YEARS. The Miata (and a few other cars like it, albeit at somewhat higher price points) have survived for years on being basic and fun, and while I certainly wouldn't object to some interior toys and so on, I strongly believe that Toyota is going to be smart on this and just make a back-to-basics sports car. If of course the things we've been hearing from their management are to be believed.

As for safety regulations, I'm not really that worried about them impacting the car's weight as much as the design. I have very little doubt in my mind that it's not going to look at all like the FT-86 currently does (at least from the front), but again, the looks are kind of secondary in this case. Toyota has also been doing a lot of work with lighter materials lately, making them more affordable and accessible across their whole line, which is good news for both the curb weight and the price of this thing. They're one of the few manufacturers that actually seems to understand that the future of the sports car (and in many ways the automobile in general) is to "add lightness" as Colin Chapman said many years ago.