A good beginner cruiser-style bike?

[Vagabond142]

Hello Beyond! :D

I am posting this NOW, well in advance (6 or so months at the least) of planning to go to motorcycle safety training. Why am I posting so early? Because I want the time to do a hell of a lot of research.

I am a very avid pathways cyclist with my McKinley, and I'm loving the road riding too. I am feeling the call of the bike, however, and it's starting to become an itch I want to scratch, but scratch safely.

I am NOT looking to go out and buy the biggest, baddest Harley ever and kill myself in the first week of gaining my class 6, no sir. I *am* looking to get a nice low CC (500 or less) "training bike." It will be a used bike, and I am hoping it will be one I can drop once or twice without too much concern about paying more than the bike cost to repair it (I say this because I know that dropping a bike in the first few weeks of riding, most likely at a stop or low speed, does happen and is statistically probable).

I am not into sports bikes, not at all. I don't feel the need to roar around at 300 km/h with a 1 liter engine vibrating 3 inches under my crotch, I just want to pootle about at 30-100km/h (basically, maybe a highway ride here or there, otherwise mostly in-city riding). As an example of what kind of bike I'm talking about, I am posting a picture of a Honda Rebel 250:

http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/photos/2005models/2005-Honda-Rebel250.jpg


I want to do this intelligently and with proper, mature discussion on the subject. I am very serious about studying for and obtaining my class 6 in spring 2010, so I would like to have a good bike, that is well known as being forgiving but instructional to new riders.

And I will always, always, ALWAYS ride in full leathers and protective equipment. While I don't think the rompersuit look goes too well, I am looking at stuff that is more casual but provides the same level of protection. As I said, I am not out to become the next Valentino Rossi, I just wanna be a slightly overweight, near-age-30, unbearded cruiser rider :P

Thanks in advance for the input :)

[mekeni]

Used Honda Magna or Shadow 750cc are pretty good.

If you are gonna sell your 250 cc bike right away after you learn, go for it, otherwise get a 600 - 800 cc cruiser.

When we started riding, one of our buddies got a rebel, after a month of riding he got rid of it and got an 1100, I guessed he got tired of being left behind.

Same story with my brother-in-law's circle of friends, one of them got a 125cc for a starter, guess who sold it first.

[SJW]

Get something bigger than a 250. That's my only advice. Buy used as there are plenty of bikes up for sale that are next to brand new.

[Graham_A_M]

^ Yeah, I had a Yamaha GS400 cruiser many years ago, and even THAT was seriously underpowered. I'd have to just ring out the engine to get it to do highway speeds. You get sick of hearing the engine scream at 6-7k constantly while just doing 110 :rolleyes:
A 250? screw that. Having too big of a bike is definately a safety issue, but so is having a bike too small (or shall I say "underpowered" in this case). Forget about Deerfoot, or highways, leave alone passing people ON the highways.

Trust me: you'll outgrow the 250 in no time, perhaps a month, maybe two. The Rebel is a great bike: such that Honda hasn't changed much of anything on it since the mid 80's. Incredibly reliable, forgiving frame geometry, very predictable etc etc.
Too bad its just too small. Hey if you're a 90 pound woman, then its the perfect fit as its so light. Problem is: it barely has enough power to haul that sort of wieght around. You? forget it.

I'd look at a Yamaha Virago 535 or a Honda Shadow 500 or 750.
I had a '85 Shadow 500, and it was a great bike. Enough power, not bad on gas, light and very predictable.

Trust me, 350 or 400 is as small as you should look. You'll probably end up taking the course on a 400cc (or so) sized bike. In a weeks time you'll see that even that is very manageable.

[SJW]

Originally posted by Graham_A_M
^ Yeah, I had a Yamaha GS400 cruiser many years ago, and even THAT was seriously underpowered. I'd have to just ring out the engine to get it to do highway speeds. You get sick of hearing the engine scream at 6-7k constantly while just doing 110 :rolleyes:
A 250? screw that. Having too big of a bike is definately a safety issue, but so is having a bike too small (or shall I say "underpowered" in this case). Forget about Deerfoot, or highways, leave alone passing people ON the highways.

Trust me: you'll outgrow the 250 in no time, perhaps a month, maybe two. The Rebel is a great bike: such that Honda hasn't changed much of anything on it since the mid 80's. Incredibly reliable, forgiving frame geometry, very predictable etc etc.
Too bad its just too small. Hey if you're a 90 pound woman, then its the perfect fit as its so light. Problem is: it barely has enough power to haul that sort of wieght around. You? forget it.

I'd look at a Yamaha Virago 535 or a Honda Shadow 500 or 750.
I had a '85 Shadow 500, and it was a great bike. Enough power, not bad on gas, light and very predictable.

Trust me, 350 or 400 is as small as you should look. You'll probably end up taking the course on a 400cc (or so) sized bike. In a weeks time you'll see that even that is very manageable.

LOL that's exactly how I feel on my lil cb360. Although it's fun to putt around on this bike.

http://www.flyfishcalgary.com/honda53.jpg

[Kloubek]

I agree with others here. I totally understand you want something low on power so you can learn. Can't blame you. But you'd be surprised how absolutely underpowered something like 250 is. Something like a Sukuki Boulevard would be good for you I think...

[Vagabond142]

Thanks for the suggestions so far :thumbsup:

Also, I guess I should add a caveat question as well: what's a really good bike school here in Calgary?

I will probably have between $400-$1000 to spend on the school, I am also going to budget $3-$4k for the bike and about $1500 for the leathers and helmet.

So, could a used Shadow 500 be bought for ~$3-$4k in average knick? I will also want to get my hands into the dirty stuff, learn how to fix the engine, change chains, etc, early on too, so I guess a good bike to learn that on too would be nice, but not the be all/end all.

[SJW]

Bikes are really easy to work on. You'll have fun. Just get anything and learn to ride it safely.

[Vagabond142]

Originally posted by SJW
Bikes are really easy to work on. You'll have fun. Just get anything and learn to ride it safely.

That's the plan. I want to get into the proper and good habits right from the start. Like I said, I really don't wanna be blasting around on an overpowered sports bike. I just wanna pootle about at sensible speeds and enjoy the biking vs feeling the need for speed :)

[Vagabond142]

Originally posted by SJW


LOL that's exactly how I feel on my lil cb360. Although it's fun to putt around on this bike.

I am NOT making fun of you, man, but the size of you on that bike (aka you huge, bike tiny) reminds me of this picture:

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_TVVDdbRQQfg/SCxpHLN7x0I/AAAAAAAABU8/kKK_DdXHu1U/1196541643442.jpg

[96integra]

Originally posted by Vagabond142

Also, I guess I should add a caveat question as well: what's a really good bike school here in Calgary?


As many others will agree, TooCool is a really good motorcycle school. My course in the spring was $650. You should book now if you're planning on taking it next year.

I have friends that took it at Calgary Safety Council and said it was nothing great. But it is a couple hundred cheaper...

[Vagabond142]

I can now see why the Shadow is recommended. Not only does it have a lot of very positive reviews out there on the interwebs.... I think it looks the absolute business o_O

:love: :drool:
http://honda.ca/MCPE/Models/Global/Cruiser/images/Wallpapers/1280x1024/07_ShadowSpirit750C2_C08D13.jpg

Please pardon my drooling, I just think that is such a clean yet nice and aggressive look for what many have said (and not just on this forum) is a great "first bike"

[Supa Dexta]

I've currently got an intruder 800. Its not too much bike really, its pretty slow coming back to a cruiser from a sport bike, and its shakey as shit above 160 or so, it tops out at 180 anyways, so you won't be up at those speeds much.

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/6945/90d120.jpg

[old&slow]

^nice looking bike!
As to the OP anything under 800 will have you wishing for more within a month!
2 bikes i recommend would be the 1500 Classic from Kawi and the 1600 Mean Steak...Go sit on them!

[SJW]

Originally posted by Vagabond142


I am NOT making fun of you, man, but the size of you on that bike (aka you huge, bike tiny) reminds me of this picture:

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_TVVDdbRQQfg/SCxpHLN7x0I/AAAAAAAABU8/kKK_DdXHu1U/1196541643442.jpg

I know its small. I picked this one to make into a cafe racer to see if it's worth it to cafe a cb750 (more expensive).

My knees are up in my ears because I lowered the seat and need to move the foot controls back. Also I have a custom tank n seat comin to give it a racer look.

Oh and that shadow looks nice.

[Vagabond142]

Originally posted by old&slow

As to the OP anything under 800 will have you wishing for more within a month!
2 bikes i recommend would be the 1500 Classic from Kawi and the 1600 Mean Steak...Go sit on them!

Well, I don't wanna go super fast, nor do I want to start off with too much power. If I get a Shadow 500 or 750 and find it's too little... well, in the great tradition I'm seeing in bikers, sell the thing and get something a little more powerful. However, I think I will stick to the advice of starting out in the 500-750 range :D

I will look into those bikes, however, just to get an idea of what they are like and what people say about them :thumbsup:

And supa, damn that thing is shiny XD how many hours of polishing did that take? o_O

[old&slow]

While I understand that you might be put off or intimidated by the "1500", understand this, they are not nearly as intimidating as you would think. More so for that 1500 Classic. They are somewhat torquey but you can't go super fast cause they don't. You'd be lucky to get it to 180 kph down hill!
They are low and relatively light at 650 lbs. Easy to handle and good at hiway speeds cause they stick to the road better than a light bike of it's class. You still got passing power.
Don't sell yourself short and investigate that unit!
http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/photos/2002models/2002-Kawasaki-Vulcan1500ClassicFib.jpg

[Graham_A_M]

If you wanted to save money: There are a bunch of good finds from the 80's. The 80's were an era where Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha & Kawasaki made bikes that would quite honestly: last forever. I used to have a '81 CB650 (chopper) that beat the living piss out of: and it just took it and took it.

I agree that Honda makes some wicked looking bikes as of late. There are some really good deals on new bikes right now, I was at Blackfoot last week and man.... God I was SO tempted to get a nice Suzuki Boulevard. :(
Dont be worried about displacement too much, these aren't like sportbikes where the difference between a Ninja 250 and a new R1 are just night and day. Just shoot for 500 or bigger, and you'll be happy with it.

The only thing different between bikes from the 80's to the 90's from today is their styling cues. Mechanically there isn't much that gets inproved on with these types of bikes. So dont be too picky about age. If you find a wicked deal on a '92 Virago or whatever, go for it.

Too cool is a good school, I know Trevor Dech (owner & head instructor) hes a good guy and teaches solid principles.




:thumbsup:

[Vagabond142]

If we talk about the Kawisakis for a moment, of the two, I actually prefer the 1600 Mean Streak for looks. However, I'm just a little intimidated that the big sales blurb for both the Classic and the Mean Streak is "torque torque ZOMG TORQUE RAAAWR!" And I know how torque works, so I am kinda iffy on spinning up the rear in my newbishness by accidentally clutch dumping :\ Greasy rear + new rider = face meets pavement :\ That's where my iffyness comes from.

[old&slow]

If I still had the Meanstreak I could aleve you of that crap...it's all sales BS. Sure they got a bit of torque but it wasn't long into to it when I was adding a fuel chip/air intake/pipes trying to squeeze some HP outta the thing. That drive shaft soaks up a good ten HP and your left with about 67 hp to the wheel on a 700lb Meanstreak.
Not a rocket buy any means. The meanie has a bit better handling than the 1500 classic and it's brakes are excellent. But the price is higher!
Both are great machine and low seat height.
Anyone with a bit of coordination and a little bit of sense could start on that bike and still be happy 3 months in !

[Vagabond142]

Okay... I will take that under advisement :) I'm just looking through sales sites and everything, and it seems that bikes will start getting affordable for me from 2002 and earlier, or mid-90s and earlier for the bigger displacement stuff. Keep in mind, I'm looking for my first bike at between $3000-$4000

[510-Trevor]

My first bike was a 250 Rebel. It was a great bike to learn on but would only hit 120kph wide open (I weighed about 160 back then).
Over the first summer I did out grow the bike, but I learned a lot about how to ride in traffic. Its such an easy bike to reach the limits of that you have more time to concentrate on riding (getting used to the controls, lane position, shoulder checking while staying straight ...)
They also hold their value very well, so you you likely won't pay much if anything for your season of use.
A 450 Rebel would probably be better if you can find one, but I wouldn't discount spending the first year on a 250, just realize that you will want to go bigger once you have built up your confidence.

[Vagabond142]

Well, there is the downside that i weigh (depending on the day) between 225-230 and I'm 6 foot dead on tall :P So, as one person so nicely PM'd me, I'd probably "squish the 250 with my asscheeks alone" :nut: However, that is exactly the kind of thing I want, something slow enough and easy enough to handle to get used to the whole aspect of riding and to build up proper and safe techniques on a bike that most likely won't bite :P

[Graham_A_M]

Originally posted by old&slow
That drive shaft soaks up a good ten HP and your left with about 67 hp to the wheel on a 700lb Meanstreak.

:nut: I hope it has mind-blowing torque to make up for that. I know V oriented engines typically lack HP in place of Torque, but 67hp from a 1600cc engine?

http://calgary.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-motorcycles-street-cruisers-choppers-1985-honda-750-shadow-W0QQAdIdZ167439937
^Honda's from the 70's to the early 90's have always had exhaust rusting problems. Dont know why it took them so long to change their alloy choice :facepalm:
Aftermarket pipes are quite easy to find for Shadows.
On my old '85 Shadow 500 the pipes were rusted to shit as well. Even though it had 11k kms on it.

[ramminghard]

Originally posted by Vagabond142
Well, there is the downside that i weigh (depending on the day) between 225-230 and I'm 6 foot dead on tall :P So, as one person so nicely PM'd me, I'd probably "squish the 250 with my asscheeks alone" :nut: However, that is exactly the kind of thing I want, something slow enough and easy enough to handle to get used to the whole aspect of riding and to build up proper and safe techniques on a bike that most likely won't bite :P
I weighed the same and am an inch taller than you and rode a rebel 250 for a while. I had a blast on that bike and it was extremely reliable. It had been dropped 4-5 times with minimal repairs needed each time. They are not the fastest bikes on the road but fun to rip around on in the city. I would pick one up if I found a used one for a reasonable price.

[Vagabond142]

Wow... Graham, thanks for that link, I didn't think bikes would be that low priced for something like a cruiser o_O Well, certainly adjusts my budget a little XD

[old&slow]

^that's not a bad find!

[Graham_A_M]

You just need to know where and how to look.

Kind of funny I mentioned that '85 Shadow I had. I bought it off a co-worker for $1100, in MINT condition nothing wrong with it asides from the rusted pipes.
I sold it a week and 1 day later for $2700 :rofl: funny part is: he thought he was getting the best deal on earth. I had the ad running before I even picked it up from him. :D So its just knowing a diamond in the rough when you see it.

I can help find you a decent bike if you want, no need to spend any more then $2-3k for a decent enough cruiser. I've found countless bikes for friends. Even a '90 Suzuki GS500 for $200, rode it home that same day. :)

But that Shadow 750 I quickly found would be a great bike for you. Definitely enough power, and as reliable as they come.
New (aftermarket) pipes seriously would not be hard to find, with that for $2k you'd have a excellent bike that you wouldn't outgrow. :dunno:

[Masked Bandit]

Three letters that solve all your problems....


U J M


Google it, live it, love it.

It's what every new biker needs to go through.

As for the engine size, don't bother with anything less than a 750 cc on a UJM. 750 on a UJM is about half of a 750 on a sport bike.

[rony_espana]

Well my advice would be to start with a 750cc, I was in your exact same situation about 3 years ago, took the motorcycle training with Calgary Safety Council for like $395 and got my class 6. After I passed I went to blackfoot and bought a brand new Honda Shadow Aero 750 and have loved it ever since. I am planning on upgrading soon, but I really haven't grown out of it yet, you really don't want less power than a 750 because it could get dangerous pulling into deerfoot lets say. Also I have yet to drop it or crash. This bike is super light and is really nice for getting around town, I use it for cheap commute.

[ercchry]

i kinda want to build one of these to boot around the city with

kc5zcud7Jqs

[Fivewayradio]

My first bike was a 82 Honda CM400T. Ugliest piece of shit on the planet. I made nearly every noob mistake imaginable. I over-revved it, under-revved it, over-steered, under-steered, popped the clutch at 7000 rpm, jammed on the front brake on gravel, locked up the back brake on asphalt, I rode in thunderstorms and when I was so cold I probably had hypothermia. I survived without a scratch, which is more than I can say for the bike.

I paid $250 for it, put a load of wrench time into it and maybe another few hundred in parts. When I was done with the bike I pretty much threw it in the trash and never thought about it again.

Totally worthwhile investment in my mind. I'm really glad I got all my stupid noob bullshit figured out on an underpowered, totally forgiving, uncool, beat-up used piece of crap. It prepared me for riding anything I set my mind to.

That 400cc bike put out 43hp, weighed 406lbs with a top speed of 156kph. The Honda CM400 had a power to weight ratio of 0.23 Hp/Kg. A Honda Shadow 750 has a power to weight ratio of 0.1859 HP/kg. The 400 actually had a 'better' power to weigh ratio than the 750. The more hps you have per kg, the faster you go.

More knowledgeable people than me will argue that there are a bunch of other factors in there and they'd be right. But the point that a 750 or even an 1100 cruiser may not be as intimidating as it seems based on displacement alone is still valid.

For comparison my new bike, a Triumph Thruxton 900 puts out 69hp, weighs 451lbs, tops out around 200 kph. That's a power to weight ratio of 0.3336 HP/kg. I'll be the first to admit it's not a fast bike.

Sorry for the essay, but I just wanted to give you some more food for thought.

[Graham_A_M]

^Congrats on the Triumph! Wonderful machines aren't they? :D


Originally posted by ercchry
i kinda want to build one of these to boot around the city with

kc5zcud7Jqs

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/231077155/chopper_GS52.html

You could import one from China for about $1100 new, plus shipping.
They come in 100cc, 150 and 200.

[Vagabond142]

I actually like Triumph bikes :) I'm kinda eyeing a Bonneville for a city fun bike a few years down the road, possibly. I do want to learn on a Honda though... call me a fanboy, call me a newb, I just know that there is so much information on Honda bikes out there that it's almost mindboggling.

Plus, apparently, they are super cheap to repair and maintain, as long as you get down and do the oily bits yourself (which is something I do want to learn)

[SJW]

Old hondas are fun.

I wouldn't ride that chinese bike. With the lead paint, shit welds and other short cuts.

[ercchry]

yeah the one i posted is made in cali... only a little bit more too (fully loaded is $2500)

[Fivewayradio]

Yeah, I love the Triumphs. I probably spent 6 months shopping and researching. I looked at pretty much every bike out there. I wasn't going to rule anything out. It wasn't all that tough of a decision in the end. My Dad rode Triumphs and the brand has always resonated with me. I could have bought a better handling, faster, more feature-laden bike for less, but there was something romantic about the Truxton that suckered me in.

Start on an old Honda, Vagabond! Put in a year or two on a cheap old bike, maintain and repair it yourself and I'll bet you never regret it.

[SJW]

I love the thruxton.

[Graham_A_M]

The newer Truimphs are the way to go, the old pre-2000's really killed my interest. There are a couple good models but their Daytona 650 and TT600 had quite a few problems and quirks to them. Doing research on the Daytona 675 (when it first came out) sure caught my interest. It obliterated all the Jap 600's & 750's out there with incredible reliability & style. All that with an growly exhaust note & engine whine that I couldn't resist. :D

20k kms later and nothing but praise & respect!. The first 14k from June '07 to August '07 :rofl:


Originally posted by ercchry
yeah the one i posted is made in cali... only a little bit more too (fully loaded is $2500)

Are you SURE its made there? California (being a costal/port state) imports a LOT from other countries. That and there are about half a dozen different companies in China that build that exact bike, with the Honda Knock-off CY6 200cc engine, the exact one in your vid.
:dunno: That engine is used in countless other makes & models too for its incredible reliability and wide aftermarket parts availability.

[94SSEi]

Go with a 79-81 Honda CX500. They look a bit odd...but they grow on you. They are a "bigger" bike size wise, so your height/weight would be fine. I'm 6'2" and 190 and it fits me great. It's shaft drive, about 50 hp, and extremely forgiving of newb mistakes (I've made em).

They are also easy as hell to work on (engine as stressed member= easy access/removal) and tonnes of parts on ebay for cheap. I rescued mine from a junkyard (was being pushed around by a bulldozer) and have put 13000 kms on it over the last 2 seasons, including a couple 1000-1300 km trips. The physical size of the bike means that it's fine on the highway and doesn't get blown around like some of the smaller 400s or 500s. That said, it's great in the city too.

Before:
http://i652.photobucket.com/albums/uu242/Ryan1984_photo/n507458918_597157_894.jpg

After:
http://i652.photobucket.com/albums/uu242/Ryan1984_photo/IMG_0268.jpg

[Fivewayradio]

:thumbsup: Neat bike. Liquid cooled and that transversely mounted twin is similar to Moto Guzzi's set up. I like it. It must have been a Cadillac in it's day.