Hit & Run at Calgary BMW Dealership

[j0nblayz]

Guys, need some help. Fiance drove my car to work (calgary bmw) and parked in their staff parking. Someone between 2-5pm last friday (20th) did a hit and run on my car. My front bumper is cracked, passenger corner light cracked and missing lens, passenger headlight assembly has been pushed in. I went back to their staff parking lot and found pieces of my smoked corner lights on the ground where fiance parked. My car is a carbon black e46 m3 cabrio with a hardtop. Please pm me if you have any information. I'll post some pics of the damage tonight. Thanx

[Xtrema]

Ask her boss for security footage?

[j0nblayz]

im actually just waiting for a call back from the manager, im assuming they would for sure have a security cam.

Heres where my car was parked:
http://www.mobilesource.ca/bmw/bmw_parking.jpg

[adidas]

They gotta have cameras in the lot. Do they also keep some of their over stock in that lot as well, id imagine if that was the case then they would have a security guard atleast overlooking it.

EDIT: Some parts of my post are irrelevant after seeing the picture that you posted

[scat19]

Damn bro, I hope everything works out for you.

[j0nblayz]

im hoping too, looks like bmw is not gonna cover it, so i gotta go thru insurance and pay the deductible, sucks. She drove my car so i can get a valve adjustment done that day however the tech left sick so it never got done, but now im gonna have to use that cash to pay my deductible.. ARGG

[C4S]

In staff parking??

So .. another staff smashed it ??

[j0nblayz]

Not sure at all if another employee hit it or not, I talked to the manager there and he was very nice about it, however he did explain that they have a strict policy about what they cover and not cover. From what i gather, their policy states that if the car is parked, doesn't matter staff or customer parking, your car is not covered, which is stated in their work order, they are not liable for any damages. However if its driven by an employee and a accident happens and they admit to it then they cover. Do i agree with their policy? no but thats their policy and nothing i can do about it, pretty much its your fault if your car get damaged while parked in their lot.

So im hoping someone saw something, looks like i will be going thru insurance.

[streethondas]

I got a full headlight with corner light, if you want I can give you for cheap

[j0nblayz]

its ok, headlight is fine, just pushed in, im gonna take a closer look tonight, hopefully clips are not broken. Im gonna order another set of smoked corner lights thru asp tuning. Still trying to decide on the bumper, go thru insurace and pay the deductible or just buy a rep.

[Zero102]

Just check the lot every day for another vehicle with matching damage, likely it was somebody who worked there given the location in the lot.

[gqmw]

Originally posted by Zero102
Just check the lot every day for another vehicle with matching damage, likely it was somebody who worked there given the location in the lot.

Yeah I would think most likely it'd be someone that works there and maybe take a look around for someone with similar damage.

[GTI CANADIAN]

Probably one of the techs doings donuts in a customers turbo'd M3!

Are Calgary BMW useless?

[j0nblayz]

here are some pics

scratch on lower passenger bumper
http://www.mobilesource.ca/bmw/hitrun/hitrun11.jpg

overview of the front
http://www.mobilesource.ca/bmw/hitrun/hitrun10.jpg

crack in the front bumper
http://www.mobilesource.ca/bmw/hitrun/hitrun9.jpg

passenger corner lens missing
http://www.mobilesource.ca/bmw/hitrun/hitrun8.jpg

front bumper crack, showing stress marks
http://www.mobilesource.ca/bmw/hitrun/hitrun7.jpg

another angle of front passenger
http://www.mobilesource.ca/bmw/hitrun/hitrun6.jpg

corner lens found in calgary bmw parking lot
http://www.mobilesource.ca/bmw/hitrun/hitrun5.jpg

[TomcoPDR]

Oh man that sux to hear, hope you find the loser.

May I make a joke?? Wouldn't it be funny if you got hit by a Hyundai 4wd, and then BMW surprises you with a new BMW???

[streethondas]

Originally posted by j0nblayz
its ok, headlight is fine, just pushed in, im gonna take a closer look tonight, hopefully clips are not broken. Im gonna order another set of smoked corner lights thru asp tuning. Still trying to decide on the bumper, go thru insurace and pay the deductible or just buy a rep.

pretty sure you can get the bumper fixed up :dunno: my 330ci bumper like cracked from one side after a collision and after the fix, couldn't even tell it was fucked up:D

[j0nblayz]

haha lol.. yeah that would be a dream come true

forgot to mention, there are no camera's in the staff parking lot so no camera footage..

After thinking about it for awhile, i dont think i will be bringing my car there for service anymore, just way too much of a risk of leaving my car there with their strict policy. I just got all my dents removed from my car, and now this..

[j0nblayz]

yeah i got an appointment tomorrow at a body shop, hopefully they can patch it up. I tried adjusting the headlight assembly, but looks like its too pushed in, i think the frame where the headlight is mounted to might be bent, or the clips on the headlights might be bent.. Im gonna spend some more time this weekend and take apart the headlight and see if there are any damages..

already ordered a new set of smoked corner lights, for now i put my old clear oem's back on


Originally posted by streethondas


pretty sure you can get the bumper fixed up :dunno: my 330ci bumper like cracked from one side after a collision and after the fix, couldn't even tell it was fucked up:D

[adidas]

The bumper can be patched up, so no need to buy a rep. Nor would i ever suggest that on such a nice car.

Hope you find the guy who caused the damage and take him to court for everything that hes got!

[Redlyne_jr]

i would expect the bumper damage to be 500-1000bucks your deductible is probably 500 id just take the hit.. sucks but better than increased insurance rates.. :dunno:

[AzNxHyDrA]

I hope everything can get fixed up. I wasn't so lucky. A truck left a huge dent right behind my rear left wheel when I had it parked at Northwest Acura. Of course they took no responsibility for it so I ended up having to go through insurance.

[Redlyne_mr2]

Sorry to hear man.. one good thing about it being in a staff lot is that hopefully you see them back again with their car all knicked up.

[j0nblayz]

from checking out the damages again, it had to be some kind of tow hook that jabbed my bumper, and probably a higher set rear bumper which caused the corner light to crack. My guess right now is some kinda of old suv/truck with those extended rear bumpers with a tow hook that reversed into my car in a angle.. Thats the only way it wouldeve made those damages and able to hit both spots at same time.

[j0nblayz]

just got back from getting an estimate. So new bumper will cost $1300, also about $1400 for the passenger headlight. He's not too sure if the headlight clips in the back are broken or not, only way would be to remove the headlight to confirm. The guy i dealt with was questioning why im paying too, he even said he see alot of cars which gets scratches and damages while at the dealership, and even no one admits to it, the dealership will fix it on their dime. I've talked to few people regarding this issue, and same thing why is this my fault they are wondering??

Take for example, you bring your car in to get an oil change, you come back few hours after and find a huge scratch across your door and you know for a fact it wasn't there before dropping it, would you think they would fix it? or course they would. Now im trying to figure out how it different in my case. I do have a work order on the car, only reason nothing got worked on was due to the fact the tech left home sick. So i dont see how im any different then a regular customer. Only difference is that my fiance works there and she drove the car for me.

The more i think of it, the more im pissed off. I really dont wanna go thru insurance and now have a ding in my car history for something so small yet i really can't afford to purchase a new bumper..

what do you guys think? maybe i need to get some legal advice

[KandabashiDevil]

I do not agree with their policy.

Why won't they assume any involvement when the entire incident occurred on their property? If Calgary BMW is not liable, then who is? Certainly NOT the customer! ... Especially when they aren't even in the vehicle at the time.
As a dealer with a lot, you ought to be responsible for everything happening at any given time. If you own the property you regard the burden. I don't understand how they're able to avoid this ...

Not to mention it's bad business! Customer drops off his high end sports car for expensive service ... His car is damaged without explanation ... And Calgary BMW just shrugs their shoulders and tells you to get lost?

:thumbsdow

[scat19]

I thought it would be EVEN EASIER seeing your girl works there too.

[AzNxHyDrA]

The best course of action is to get some legal advice. I had an argument with Northwest Acura when this happened and all that they said to me was we aren't responsible and gave me some bullshit example of how a mall isn't responsible if your car is damaged in their parking lot. Thus making them not responsible for any damage to my car on their lot.

[spikerS]

see technically, a mall or parking lot can be held responsible for damage to your vehicle.

the 3 Cs to determine liability are care, custody and control.

When you goto the mall, they are providing a place for you to park on their property. when you leave your vehicle, the Mall assumes care, custody and control of your vehicle. Now many malls try to deflect that liability by posting signs that they are not responsible for damages however caused, however, that does nothing in the eyes of the law, as it is not legally binding in any form as you have not agreed to it, either verbally, or in writing. again, some places try to circumvent that by stating "by parking here or using these facilities constitutes that you agree yadda yadda yadda". Again, that does not hold any legal power. the problem with that is that the management company or owners have to be able to prove that you read the sign, and that it was presented to you in a clear and concise manner.

I remember attending a civil court case where a customer took a photo developer to court over some developed photos that ended up ruining the negatives and proved the customer with no photos. The developer stated that he is not liable as on the envelopes fine print, it lays out the terms of his liability. The judge asked the customer if he read the fine print, to which he responded no. The judge then asked the developer if he made the customer read the terms and conditions, to which the developer said no. The judge ruled in favor of the customer as the developer accepted the film without ensuring that the customer agreed to the terms and conditions, thus the developer accepted any and all liability for that film and it's care. since it was destroyed in the developers care, it was his responsibility.

now i dont have a degree in law, or an extensive knowledge of the inner workings of insurance, and my entire post is based off of my personal experience and in talking with a few lawyers and juxtaposing it into this situation.

[j0nblayz]

Just got off the phone with my insurance company, they see these kind of things happening all the time, and says that i can't do anything. The dealership is not at fault, and do not need to take responsibility. He was a little confused about the employee parking issue though, he says in the public parking in the front of the dealership he can see how it wont be covered, but in the private staff parking in the back they may be responsible, however since they have a policy he wasn't too sure. Anyways i dont agree at all that now i have to pay $500 for bringing my car in to get service, my fault i guess. Next time bringing you car into any dealerships, you may wanna ask what their policy is prior leaving you car with them or you may be stuck like me with a $500 bill...

[j0nblayz]

Well i just gave BMW Canada a call, and the guy there told me he can't do anything since he has no control over each dealership, however he said i shouldn't be paying either. Told me to talk to the GM (which is gonna get me no where since GM told the manager that they are not covering) and then owner. Then he said try calling BBB after, then last resort lawyer. He told me not to give up on this, and its no way at all my fault. He doesn't see how there are different rules for staff parking or customer parking.

This totally sucks, i wish this happened in crowfoot since i never go there, i always go to this dealership for parts arggg!! i guess im gonna have to start the ball rolling here..

[bignerd]

Well I don't see how it is the dealerships fault? I would be more upset and could see the dealership paying if a customer had brought their car there for work and it was damaged while in their care but if your girlfriend works there? Why should BMW have to pay to fix the car when it could of been anyone driving through (or turning around) in that lot?

Technically the person at fault is the one that hit you but seeing as how they didn't leave a note the only way I can see this ending is with you paying.

And the Care Custody and Control thing, I am sure most parking lots are use at your own risk and probably have signs posted around stating the same.

[00redLUDE]

Totally sucks to hear. I have a friend who went to Brian Jessel BMW in Vancouver to look for a car and he went to drive into their parking lot some metal was sticking out or something (many years ago so can not recall all the details) and it damaged the side of his car. He got out, started to assess the damage, had not even gone into the dealership, when an associate saw what happened, came over, apologized and said the dealership would cover the cost of fixing the damage, which they did. He ended up buying a vehicle from them.

Wish the dealerships here in Calgary where more like this. I can't even believe they wouldn't just fix it for you, even if it wasn't 'their policy', which I find that hard to believe, since you fiance works there?!!

On a separate note, I recall hearing that BMW in Calgary gives their employees a discount if they were to buy a BMW. Is this true and how much of a discount?

[Power_Of_Rotary]

I hope people realize, when they take their vehicles into a dealership, and while the car is parked in the parking lot and someone damages the vehicle, the dealership is not reliable for it.

Even if your car is parked by a dealership worker, and someone hit ur car after its parked, the dealership is not responsible for anything...

[j0nblayz]

i realize that now, however dealership maybe should point that out from now on. When you bring your car in, they should say up front, "hey just to let you know if you car gets damaged here, your SOL, oh by the way please sign here on the work order"....

[Drsuce]

i'd suspect some kind of delivery vehicle did that damage, those yahoo's always try and pull wierd shit in the parking lot

[j0nblayz]

maybe, who knows.. anyways looks like im gonna have to give up.. more i do research the more realize i have no chance. I found few other people who had issues with them and went down the lawyer road and had nothing resolved. I am gonna have to suck it up and just go thru insurance. However i have decided it may be time to give up on the bmw brand, i have been a faithful bmw owner since back in the e30 days, this is my 7th one. May be time to move to a different brand next time around..

not really mad at them anymore, just more surprise that they treated me this way, i know for a fact if it was a regular customer and they got their car back smashed, they would do anything they can to resolve it fast as they can. I guess i dont got enough cash for them to care about.. Maybe if my car was a e90 i wouldeve got treated differently, lol...

hopefully no one get into the same situation as i did..

[spikerS]

Originally posted by bignerd


And the Care Custody and Control thing, I am sure most parking lots are use at your own risk and probably have signs posted around stating the same.

oh, absolutely most of them do.

however, it is an agreement, that they have to make sure you accept. All the signs in the world make little difference to an illiterate person, or someone who does not read the language. If something were to happen, and it does goto court, the onus is then placed on the defendant (whom ever owns the parking lot) to show that the driver of the vehicle read and understood the sign, and accepted the terms and conditions of parking there. As bad as it sounds, the only way to be sure that this is followed, is to have an employee at every entrance to the parking lot, and make sure each person that enters has been told of these conditions, and accepts them.

Another example of this is all those tickets that got thrown out by calgary transit for people that backed their cars into stalls while parking on transit property. I am sure CT lawyers advised that if these tickets were fought, they would be dismissed, and as a way to deceive the public, they announced they would post bigger signage. rather than say it is not enforceable anyway.

now, again, I don't have any legal background here, just life experience in similar matters. I would love it if one of the lawyers that use these boards could chime in their personal opinion and interpretation of this.

[j0nblayz]

so your saying if you brought your car in for an oil change, and come after few hours to pick it up and found someone smashed your car you would be fine with it? would you be like, oh its ok i'll just work with my insurance, thanx and leave?? i doubt it, you would be pissed and would demand they fix it. Im saying its easy for you to say they are not responsible, but if you were in my case you would feel differently.. i just dont see how its my fault in this case, only fault would be that i trusted them with my car. Either way, i have given up..


Originally posted by Power_Of_Rotary
I hope people realize, when they take their vehicles into a dealership, and while the car is parked in the parking lot and someone damages the vehicle, the dealership is not reliable for it.

Even if your car is parked by a dealership worker, and someone hit ur car after its parked, the dealership is not responsible for anything...

[luxor]

Originally posted by j0nblayz
only fault would be that i trusted them with my car.


There you go. That right there is enough for them to say "tough luck."

[bignerd]

Originally posted by spikers


oh, absolutely most of them do.

however, it is an agreement, that they have to make sure you accept. All the signs in the world make little difference to an illiterate person, or someone who does not read the language. If something were to happen, and it does goto court, the onus is then placed on the defendant (whom ever owns the parking lot) to show that the driver of the vehicle read and understood the sign, and accepted the terms and conditions of parking there. As bad as it sounds, the only way to be sure that this is followed, is to have an employee at every entrance to the parking lot, and make sure each person that enters has been told of these conditions, and accepts them.

Another example of this is all those tickets that got thrown out by calgary transit for people that backed their cars into stalls while parking on transit property. I am sure CT lawyers advised that if these tickets were fought, they would be dismissed, and as a way to deceive the public, they announced they would post bigger signage. rather than say it is not enforceable anyway.

now, again, I don't have any legal background here, just life experience in similar matters. I would love it if one of the lawyers that use these boards could chime in their personal opinion and interpretation of this.

It would be rather hard for whomever owns the mall to ensure that everyone accepts the agreement and risks of parking in their lots. I believe it is assumed if you park in the lot, you accept the risks of doing so and thus the mall's agreement. If you are illiterate, well one you probably shouldn't be driving, and two, how is it the mall's issue if you cannot read? As long as they can prove due diligence(which would be posting the signs) on their part I think that is all that is needed.

If every company or business had to explain all the fine print to you in person and ensure that you accepted it before every transaction nothing would get done in a day.

[Dope7]

that sucks man.

[Danny Meehan]

Originally posted by spikers
When you goto the mall, they are providing a place for you to park on their property. when you leave your vehicle, the Mall assumes care, custody and control of your vehicle. Now many malls try to deflect that liability by posting signs that they are not responsible for damages however caused, however, that does nothing in the eyes of the law, as it is not legally binding in any form as you have not agreed to it, either verbally, or in writing. [....]
One agrees to the liability clause when one parks on a private property.
Educational institutions have similar clauses.

[spikerS]

Originally posted by bignerd


It would be rather hard for whomever owns the mall to ensure that everyone accepts the agreement and risks of parking in their lots. I believe it is assumed if you park in the lot, you accept the risks of doing so and thus the mall's agreement. If you are illiterate, well one you probably shouldn't be driving, and two, how is it the mall's issue if you cannot read? As long as they can prove due diligence(which would be posting the signs) on their part I think that is all that is needed.

If every company or business had to explain all the fine print to you in person and ensure that you accepted it before every transaction nothing would get done in a day.

oh, i agree, it is alot of work to make sure people understand, but nothing in life is.

again, i think that is where the gray area is, is posting signs enough due diligence? The other gray area, is that someone under the age of 18 can not enter a binding agreement in Canada, yet can own and have a driver's license at 16.... or what about Mr.Wong's family that is visiting from Japan, and rents a car, but cant read english...

like I said, there is a huge gray area in this, and i would love to hear from an actual lawyer on this matter.

[MintRacer]

depends on the dealership I guess,

I've had my car at dealership once for service, during the drop off the service advisor would do a walk around on the car noting any dings/dents/scratches/km's.

When I came back to pick up the car I noticed new dent and scratch. Dealership fixed both.