Road budget sinking in red ink [Archive] - Beyond.ca - Car Forums

nonlinear

12-10-2009, 01:50 PM

Road budget sinking in red ink

http://www.660news.com/news/local/more.jsp?content=20091210_114452_7764

The manager of the city's roads department admits again this year Calgary will exceed it's snow and ice removal budget.

Ryan Jestin tells 660News they will likely end up exceeding the $ 23-million dollar budget by several million dollars but the final figure won't be known until the new year.

Jestin says it will be the 14th year out of the last 19 that expenditures to improve traction during the winter months have surpassed the money set aside to get the job done.

He says a bill would be attached to expand snow clearing to areas outside of the major routes.

Jestin says his department would need another 7 million dollars a year, which would work out to about 7 dollars more a year for the some 1 million people who live here, which is pretty much much the cost of a fancy coffee at Starbucks.

The chair of the Finance committee Alderman Gord Lowe says there is no appetite for tax hikes at city hall and despite the most recent deficit the money needed to cover the shortfall will be found.

After more than a thousand complaints to the city's 3 1 1 line over the past several days, snow and ice issues will be front and centre when council meets next Monday.

call your fucking alderman and tell them you want them to increase snow removal budgets. and if your alderman is Gord Lowe, you are an absolute idiot for not voting and allowing this fuckhead to get into office.

ekguy

12-10-2009, 02:06 PM

this is something that Alberta could learn from the maritimes and other provinces as well. Back home they have proper plows for the roads and certain rules to make snow clearing easier. Such as during snow fall, you put your car in the driveway not on the street...makes it easier for plows to clear roads without having to go around parked cars.

nonlinear

12-10-2009, 02:12 PM

^^yea, in MPLS/St. Paul, they declare "snow emergencies" and have signs all over the roads saying where you can park during them, etc. but of course, you actually NEED PLOWS first in order to erect such signs.

this is the most ass-backward city i've ever seen when it comes to snow removal. seriously, $7 fucking dollars, and some idiot alderman is saying that we would rather keep our $7 than have snow removal in the 'burbs?????!?!??! that is possibly the dumbest thing i've ever heard one of them say. that's probably dumber than druh farrrel shutting down memorial that one sunday last august.

kaput

12-10-2009, 02:17 PM

ekguy

12-10-2009, 02:20 PM

Calgary is ass backwards in more aspects than just snow removal. I moved here about 5 years ago....Started hating it about 4 years and 9 months ago. I am in the process of moving back home and it's the first time I've been happy out here is now that I know I'm leaving. It's great for young couples wanting to make a good living...To settle down, enjoy life...not a chance....Winter just makes it worse. We get maybe 5% as much snow as most other cities yet about 95% of the snow is left on the roads to create skating rinks.

I actually came home last year after classes to find my niece on skates in the street laughing because she was able to skate to her friend's house.

It's funny, yet completely sad how a city of this size can't find a solution to such a simple problem.

Not like it hasn't been snowing since even before Canada was Canada...It's almost like they are surprised it's snowing in this city sometimes...

whiskas

12-10-2009, 02:56 PM

It's the sprawl, we have a disgusting amount of roads in proportion to the population. As a result you get what you pay for. If you want the road in front of your home to be cleared don't go off buying a wooden cookie cutter home off in bumfuck no where.

I pay my property taxes and get the road cleared in front of my place. And thanks to that I can can happily drive the S2K around with no issues. I don't feel it's fair to have to pay more for roads that I'll never even see.

;)

89s1

12-10-2009, 02:59 PM

Originally posted by ekguy
Calgary is ass backwards in more aspects than just snow removal. I moved here about 5 years ago....Started hating it about 4 years and 9 months ago. I am in the process of moving back home and it's the first time I've been happy out here is now that I know I'm leaving. It's great for young couples wanting to make a good living...To settle down, enjoy life...not a chance....Winter just makes it worse. We get maybe 5% as much snow as most other cities yet about 95% of the snow is left on the roads to create skating rinks.

I actually came home last year after classes to find my niece on skates in the street laughing because she was able to skate to her friend's house.

It's funny, yet completely sad how a city of this size can't find a solution to such a simple problem.

Not like it hasn't been snowing since even before Canada was Canada...It's almost like they are surprised it's snowing in this city sometimes...

Just out of curiosity, where did you move here from?

88CRX

12-10-2009, 03:00 PM

Originally posted by whiskas
I don't feel it's fair to have to pay more for roads that I'll never even see.

;)

LOL

Not how it works bud. :rofl:

nonlinear

12-10-2009, 03:02 PM

Originally posted by whiskas
It's the sprawl, we have a disgusting amount of roads in proportion to the population. As a result you get what you pay for. If you want the road in front of your home to be cleared don't go off buying a wooden cookie cutter home off in bumfuck no where.

I pay my property taxes and get the road cleared in front of my place. And thanks to that I can can happily drive the S2K around with no issues. I don't feel it's fair to have to pay more for roads that I'll never even see.

;)

i'm sorry, but the size issue has nothing to do with it. the Twin Cities Metro Area has 4 million people and is WAY bigger in area than calgary (i.e. you can in a straight line for 2 hours and you're still in the city), and they have sweet snow removal. and that was almost 10 years ago - it's probably bigger now.

gretz

12-10-2009, 03:07 PM

Saw Toronto's snow removal on TV...3 plows driving in unissen (sp?) down the 401 - all lanes in one pop.

I have seen 1 plow this winter, and he was making one hell of a mess.

kenny

12-10-2009, 03:09 PM

Its not that the City of Calgary can't find a solution. The problem is that everyone on city council wants to keep their job. If they vote for an increase in ANYTHING, the public only sees that taxes are going up but they are blind to all the benefits of higher taxes.

We have people that are still complaining about a pedestrian bridge that is being built.

Thousands of calls to 311 because roads aren't completely cleared DURING a massive snow storm.

Complaining that buses are 30 mins late during a crazy storm that resulted in people taking 2 hours to drive home.

The complaining never stops and the comparison to Starbucks highlights how fucked up everything is. We all bitch and moan over a few bucks on our property taxes only to stand in line at Starbucks surfing the net on our iphones with our $90/month plans all so we can buy a $7 cup of fancy coffee.

[/rant]

Redlyne_mr2

12-10-2009, 03:14 PM

I have no issues with the roads , buy a vehicle with the right tires that suits the needs for the type of environment that we live in. There is a reason you don't see 335's and G35 coupes in Ft. Mac.

nonlinear

12-10-2009, 03:18 PM

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
I have no issues with the roads , buy a vehicle with the right tires that suits the needs for the type of environment that we live in. There is a reason you don't see 335's and G35 coupes in Ft. Mac.

i'm sorry, but snow tires are designed to work in SNOW, not ICE.

and by this argument, everyone should run our and buy expensive snow tires so we can save $7 on our taxes? how does that make any sense? a new set of snow tires is probably a lot of money to a family.

Xtrema

12-10-2009, 03:34 PM

Originally posted by kaput
How can they blow the budget 75% of the time and STILL argue that it doesn't need to be increased?

Nothing wrong with that.

When it's over budget 99% of time and we'll increase the budget.

wardpr68

12-10-2009, 03:34 PM

the sad part is... i was in Lethbridge last weekend and their snow removal is FAR FAR FAR superior to Calgary's. Pathetic.

Xtrema

12-10-2009, 03:36 PM

Originally posted by nonlinear

i'm sorry, but snow tires are designed to work in SNOW, not ICE.

and by this argument, everyone should run our and buy expensive snow tires so we can save $7 on our taxes? how does that make any sense? a new set of snow tires is probably a lot of money to a family.

I already did the math in the other thread.

It's an average of $220 for an average $350K home. Given average winter tires are effective for 4 to 5 winters, you now have $1100 to spend on winter tires for at least 1 car.

2 if you drive Civics.

And you'll be controlling some of the situation, not relying on the city.

atgilchrist

12-10-2009, 03:37 PM

But you only use them half the time, and your summers half the time, and both sets last twice as long; long term expenditure is equal.

nonlinear

12-10-2009, 03:37 PM

^^$220? cause the roads director or whatever said it was $7 per person.

Xtrema

12-10-2009, 03:38 PM

Originally posted by atgilchrist
But you only use them half the time, and your summers half the time, and both sets last twice as long; long term expenditure is equal.

You can use them beyond 4 or 5 season but rubber do degrade over time and they are less effective the longer you keep them.

Originally posted by nonlinear
^^$220? cause the roads director or whatever said it was $7 per person.

My numbers come from comparing to Montreal and their snow removal budget since everyone here raves about it.

Assumption:

- We have more road and land mass than Montreal
- We have 3x less tax payers

$7 per person is around $28 per house hold or about $7M increase in budget which brings it up to $30M.

Montreal's budget is $130M from the other thread.

Get serious. $7 will all go to contract rates and raises and we'll end up with the same shit.

KrisYYC

12-10-2009, 03:51 PM

nonlinear I agree with you and I would totally be willing to pay $7/month to have better road clearing.

But unfortunately the average joe sixpack can't get it through their thick f@cking heads and understand that services cost money and that money has to come from somwhere.

We have pretty average to low property taxes relative to the rest of Canada, which is unbelievable considering the massive growth we've had. Something has to give.

What irks me the most are people who came out here during the boom, only to bitch how shitty it is compared to "back home". Of course they omit the 50% higher property taxes, land transfer taxes, PST etc they had to pay back home.

Another issue, now this could be it's own debate, is the sprawl. Properties on the far edges of the city cost way more to provide services to than properties in the inner city, yet they pay less property tax due to lower property values. Yet they are the loudest whiners.

I think the tax assesment should be changed. Why the hell should a guy in a million dollar apartment condo downtown pay 10 times the property tax that some schmoe in buttfuck suburbia pays when it probably costs the city 10 times what it cost to provide services out there compared to inner city?

Trini

12-10-2009, 03:51 PM

Originally posted by ekguy
this is something that Alberta could learn from the maritimes and other provinces as well. Back home they have proper plows for the roads and certain rules to make snow clearing easier. Such as during snow fall, you put your car in the driveway not on the street...makes it easier for plows to clear roads without having to go around parked cars.

for real!

mr2mike

12-10-2009, 04:00 PM

Man if a private company was over their budget this many years in a row, someone's head would be rolling. You're supposed to go back and reassess your damn budget every year to bring it closer in line with what's expected.
Does the city know this? Ass Hats in the roads dept!!

Jay911

12-10-2009, 04:01 PM

Plows working in unison along the 401 is how I always knew proper snow removal to be when I was growing up in the GTA, and I've only ever seen it done that way here once - and those guys were probably going against the rules anyway.

There's a lot more that Calgary could do with the equipment they have. Don't let any politician or city spokesman tell you otherwise. When you can tell exactly where the city plow stopped working vs the county or provincial contract (Volker Stevin etc) took over, on highway 1, highway 8, highway 22X, etc., because the city is still snow-covered and screwed up while the county side is down to damp but bare pavement, that's pretty telling of how screwed up things are in-city.

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
There is a reason you don't see 335's and G35 coupes in Ft. Mac.

Because they're all back home in St. John's, Corner Brook, and Deer Lake, where the workers live? :D

nonlinear

12-10-2009, 04:10 PM

Originally posted by KrisYYC
I think the tax assesment should be changed. Why the hell should a guy in a million dollar apartment condo downtown pay 10 times the property tax that some schmoe in buttfuck suburbia pays when it probably costs the city 10 times what it cost to provide services out there compared to inner city?

why? here's just a few:

maybe to avoid gridlock of the entire city, resulting in random 3 hour commutes home from work? or, prevent downtown offices from sending everyone home at 2 pm, which must cost millions of dollars in lost productivity. maybe to reduce the 600 accidents that can happen in 24 hours, which increase the fuck out of our insurance rate. or maybe to keep police and other saftey workers from having to direct traffic and push people who are stuck, so they can focus on their real jobs? or maybe to prevent the accidents that force complete CLOSURE of deerfoot and crowchild.

maybe that asshole in the million dollar condo has a heart attack, but can't be reached by an ambulance because it's stuck in snow-related traffic somewhere

:dunno:

i understand what you're saying about it being more expensive to clear the 'burbs, however, the issue is far more complicated than just affecting our daily commutes. this snow removal problem affects how the entire city functions.

Criticull

12-10-2009, 04:11 PM

we should double our snow plow budget to the size of Ottawa's, then we'd be in the money.

lsc2g

12-10-2009, 04:14 PM

yea need a better budget

what i want to know is who the FUCK decided that rocks are good!.. like seriously they must not give 2 shits about the quality of thier vehicles

use some sand damnit! and put some salt down! i can't stand seeing icy intersections that could be fine if they put some salt down..

the rocks piss me off more tho.. first chinook its shotgun city to your paint and windshied.. oh great another front end respray coming my way

:guns: :guns:

blownz

12-10-2009, 04:34 PM

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
I have no issues with the roads , buy a vehicle with the right tires that suits the needs for the type of environment that we live in. There is a reason you don't see 335's and G35 coupes in Ft. Mac.

Actually I was just up in Fort McMurray on November 9th and 10th and I saw two new M3's and a C63 driving around. Granted there was no snow yet.

My sister and her husband live up there and they drive a 2007 Jetta and a 2008 C300 rwd year round. At the moment I have 5 staff working on our FM office and only one of them doesn't drive a car and none of the car guys have awd.

There are lots of cars up there and it is no worse driving there then Calgary or Edmonton. Like you said tires are important and up there more people seem to just understand that than those in Calgary/Edmonton.

gretz

12-10-2009, 04:49 PM

FraserB

12-10-2009, 05:04 PM

Snow and winter tires are great but you need a vehicle that has more than 4' of clearance, that or don't try to bust drifts in a small car or van.

This is to the person I was going to pull out on the weekend; yes I drive an SUV, but if you want to tell me I'm irresponsible and a danger on the road you should wait until I have winched you the last 20' out of your street before you mouth off and tell me to buy winters. The only thing I am sorry for is the strain I put on my battery and the cold I endured to pull your sorry ass 60' before I found out what kind of douche you really were. But hey, at least you got some exercise shoveling yourself out.:D :dunno:

nonlinear

12-10-2009, 05:08 PM

Originally posted by FraserB
This is to the person I was going to pull out on the weekend; yes I drive an SUV, but if you want to tell me I'm irresponsible and a danger on the road you should wait until I have winched you the last 20' out of your street before you mouth off and tell me to buy winters. The only thing I am sorry for is the strain I put on my battery and the cold I endured to pull your sorry ass 60' before I found out what kind of douche you really were. But hey, at least you got some exercise shoveling yourself out.:D :dunno:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Jay911

12-10-2009, 05:08 PM

KrisYYC

12-10-2009, 05:09 PM

Originally posted by nonlinear

why? here's just a few:

maybe to avoid gridlock of the entire city, resulting in random 3 hour commutes home from work? or, prevent downtown offices from sending everyone home at 2 pm, which must cost millions of dollars in lost productivity. maybe to reduce the 600 accidents that can happen in 24 hours, which increase the fuck out of our insurance rate. or maybe to keep police and other saftey workers from having to direct traffic and push people who are stuck, so they can focus on their real jobs? or maybe to prevent the accidents that force complete CLOSURE of deerfoot and crowchild.

maybe that asshole in the million dollar condo has a heart attack, but can't be reached by an ambulance because it's stuck in snow-related traffic somewhere

:dunno:

I fail to see how changing the assessment would cause the armaggeddon scenario in your post. I'm saying people who put higher demand on public service (the burbs) should not be paying less than people who don't. There should be balance.

It's not just snow clearing, it's roads, road maintenance, transit, power lines, sewage everything.

If you're suggesting that people would flee the suburbs and move to the inner city causing chaos, I don't see it happening. Even with property taxes based on usage it would still be cheaper to buy out in the burbs.

nonlinear

12-10-2009, 05:13 PM

Originally posted by KrisYYC

I fail to see how changing the assessment would cause the armaggeddon scenario in your post. I'm saying people who put higher demand on public service (the burbs) should not be paying less than people who don't. There should be balance.

It's not just snow clearing, it's roads, road maintenance, transit, power lines, sewage everything.

If you're suggesting that people would flee the suburbs and move to the inner city causing chaos, I don't see it happening. Even with property taxes based on usage it would still be cheaper to buy out in the burbs.

i'm just saying that snowy roads affect everyone - not just the people in the burbs. insurance rates, emergency response times, courier/post times, etc. etc. are all affected.

speedog

12-10-2009, 05:21 PM

So many armchair critics in this thread - maybe a few should seriously consider running for a city council position next time around, put your money where your mouth is, so to speak.

nonlinear

12-10-2009, 05:24 PM

^^or, at least vote in the fucking municipal election. there was 19.8% turnout in 2004 :rolleyes: . not sure about 2007.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/calgary/story/2007/10/15/cgy-voting.html

lsc2g

12-10-2009, 05:25 PM

gretz i do care about my car but i can live with washing the underside of my car and shit most cars have plastic under them now anyways.. my control arms may not like it but then again i dont' like seeing shotgun rock chips all over my car, windshild and roof line from driving in this buttfuck of a city

winter beater ftw i spose..

Redlyne_mr2

12-10-2009, 05:41 PM

Originally posted by nonlinear

i'm sorry, but snow tires are designed to work in SNOW, not ICE.

and by this argument, everyone should run our and buy expensive snow tires so we can save $7 on our taxes? how does that make any sense? a new set of snow tires is probably a lot of money to a family.
I didnt mention anything about property taxes...what I'm saying is we live in Canada.. buy snow tires and an SUV if you really have a problem with the roads.

BrknFngrs

12-10-2009, 05:54 PM

I don't think most people would really care about a $7 increase in property taxes provided that their was so noticable improvement in how things run. Look at Calgary Transit, for example, they started charging for parking to improve the service and security on lots....neither of which has happened and I don't see parking fees going away anytime soon.

What they need to do is release the detailed financial information for Calgary's snow removal. Lets make it public which company's get paid for snow removal work, how much they make, how many hours they spent working, etc. I think many people would be shocked to see where the money actually goes.

kenny

12-10-2009, 06:03 PM

http://www.calgaryherald.com/Calgary+Council+consider+tapping+reserve+fund+snow+removal/2326834/story.html

Found this tidbit interesting:

The city has suggested that plowing or merely sanding every residential road would cost $12 million to $14 million, adding about $30 or more to the average Calgary property tax bill.

So for $30/year we can have ALL streets looked after. Thats only $2.50 per month! However, it states in the article that no one wants to raise taxes.

msommers

12-10-2009, 06:08 PM

So it basically boils down to the majority of Calgarians being cheap fucks but expecting everything, and the City wanting more money but proving to everyone how ineffective they can spend the money they do have.

The whole situation, SMRT!

msommers

12-10-2009, 06:09 PM

Originally posted by BrknFngrs
What they need to do is release the detailed financial information for Calgary's snow removal. Lets make it public which company's get paid for snow removal work, how much they make, how many hours they spent working, etc. I think many people would be shocked to see where the money actually goes.

For all spending the City does, people would be shocked and disappointed where the money actually goes.

89s1

12-10-2009, 06:13 PM

Originally posted by msommers

For all spending the City does, people would be shocked and disappointed where the money actually goes.

That's politics....

Supa Dexta

12-10-2009, 07:32 PM

:rofl: Who cares about salt? People who can only afford older cars likely, because if you only keep a new car for 2-3 yrs, salt doesn't mean shit... It's gone by the time summer rolls around, so when the nice cars are out, theres no worries from it either.

2.5 hrs to go from 32nd to 130th last night. :nut:

How the hell can you plan to get to work around here.. I was late for a course in town yesterday, so I gave myself an extra half hour today, and still ended up late.. :rolleyes: Think of how much time and money is lost in this city, when the whole god damn city is parked in the streets for hours a day.

adidas

12-10-2009, 07:35 PM

Originally posted by Supa Dexta
:rofl: Who cares about salt? People who can only afford older cars likely, because if you only keep a new car for 2-3 yrs, salt doesn't mean shit... It's gone by the time summer rolls around, so when the nice cars are out, theres no worries from it either.

2.5 hrs to go from 32nd to 130th last night. :nut:

How the hell can you plan to get to work around here.. I was late for a course in town yesterday, so I gave myself an extra half hour today, and still ended up late.. :rolleyes: Think of how much time and money is lost in this city, when the whole god damn city is parked in the streets for hours a day.

No money is lost as it always comes down when its time to go home from work for 85% of the city haha

Jay911

12-10-2009, 07:36 PM

The city has a 'rainy day' fund.

Maybe it should have a 'snow day' fund too!

7thgenvic

12-10-2009, 07:47 PM

Fuck Calgary and the shit road clearing! I hope they go way over-budget.
Two issues in Calgary:
1) people don't equipped their vehicles with the proper equipment... NO YOU HIGH PERFORMANCE all season's are not going to get up a small hill with ice
2) City is doing a horrible job this year of keeping intersections clean.

Jay911

12-10-2009, 07:52 PM

Originally posted by 7thgenvic
1) people don't equipped their vehicles with the proper equipment... NO YOU HIGH PERFORMANCE all season's are not going to get up a small hill with ice

Saddlemead Close, circa today, via CTV News (click for story):

http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/20091210/450_snow_saddle_091210.jpg (http://calgary.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20091210/CGY_snow_drifts_091210/20091210/?hub=CalgaryHome)

Nothing short of MatTracks is gettin' thru that crap.

speedog

12-10-2009, 08:05 PM

Originally posted by Jay911

Saddlemead Close, circa today, via CTV News (click for story):

http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/20091210/450_snow_saddle_091210.jpg (http://calgary.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20091210/CGY_snow_drifts_091210/20091210/?hub=CalgaryHome)

Nothing short of MatTracks is gettin' thru that crap. Nah, winters would get ya through that, no? At least that's what I've been hearing on these forums.

DJ Lazy

12-10-2009, 08:17 PM

Originally posted by Jay911

Saddlemead Close, circa today, via CTV News (click for story):

http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/20091210/450_snow_saddle_091210.jpg (http://calgary.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20091210/CGY_snow_drifts_091210/20091210/?hub=CalgaryHome)

Nothing short of MatTracks is gettin' thru that crap.

Hell ya! :D

http://www.solidsmack.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/ken-block-trax-sti-03.jpg

bigboom

12-10-2009, 09:09 PM

the problem is if you give the city more money they will just find other ways to blow it and still say they dont have enough money for snow removal.

TorqueDog

12-10-2009, 09:17 PM

You guys are way too old school, we just had a thread about our snow removal woes.

Cloud seeding! :D

FraserB

12-10-2009, 09:28 PM

Originally posted by Jay911

Saddlemead Close, circa today, via CTV News (click for story):

http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/20091210/450_snow_saddle_091210.jpg (http://calgary.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20091210/CGY_snow_drifts_091210/20091210/?hub=CalgaryHome)

Nothing short of MatTracks is gettin' thru that crap.

Is it still like this right now? I might swing by tomorrow if it is.:burnout:

Jay911

12-10-2009, 09:30 PM

Originally posted by FraserB

Is it still like this right now? I might swing by tomorrow if it is.:burnout:

Well, CTV implied it was tonight (I don't live there) but the alderman was on the news being "made aware of the situation" :rolleyes: so I imagine either a grader or the blower might go thru there by tomorrow.

You do bring up a good point.. the city says that they will fine people if they get private contractors to come do their street.. they don't say anything about 4x4s or AWD vehicles coming out to do a meet there.. a few charges up and down that road in a good 4x4 and it would be no worse than any other street in Calgary any other winter.. and they couldn't charge you with anything since you're just driving up and down a road... :D

FraserB

12-10-2009, 09:45 PM

They also have to be able to differentiate between a private citizen with a plow on their 4x4 and a contractor. If I have a plow on my truck and plow a friends driveway, does that make me a contractor or a nice person.

ekguy

12-10-2009, 09:56 PM

Originally posted by 89s1

Just out of curiosity, where did you move here from?

I moved here from NB. The only reason I moved here was because my whole family did. I'm working on trying and going back. We literally can get as much snow in a week as Calgary does in a winter and the roads stay clear...With that said there's not much going on back home when it comes to a job market...

But we have snow removal down pat hehe. :D

Supa Dexta

12-10-2009, 10:21 PM

Yeah, its nothing to wake up to a scene similar to that picture above, a dozen times a winter back east... And we still get on with our lives.. The streets looked the same down in prestwick, only there is one path broke thru.. I keep taking another swipe into the drifts every pass I go by, to knock it down some, since I have the ability..

... And then theres the bitching... 'damn 4x4's always flying around'.... Well lets see, I have a 4x4, I also have new tires for the winter, these ones aren't studded this yr, but normally I also run studs.. I also have extra driving courses to deal with winter conditions, larger vehicles, and collision avoidance.. So yes, I do deserve to go faster then your '89 prelude on summers, if I've got a vehicle better designed, equipped and piloted to do so.. :whocares:

black13

12-10-2009, 10:21 PM

Originally posted by kenny
http://www.calgaryherald.com/Calgary+Council+consider+tapping+reserve+fund+snow+removal/2326834/story.html

Found this tidbit interesting:

So for $30/year we can have ALL streets looked after. Thats only $2.50 per month! However, it states in the article that no one wants to raise taxes.

Honestly after these two weeks, I think everyone would agree to a $30 tax hike if it would get the streets cleared.

At least this $30 would be for a worth while cause instead of some other bs like a designer pedestrian bridge.

But there would have to be better management of the money as well. Make the spending plan public or else its just gonna make some lazy contractors richer.

TorqueDog

12-10-2009, 10:22 PM

Originally posted by ekguy
I moved here from NB. The only reason I moved here was because my whole family did. I'm working on trying and going back. We literally can get as much snow in a week as Calgary does in a winter and the roads stay clear...With that said there's not much going on back home when it comes to a job market...

But we have snow removal down pat hehe. :D Yeah, when I'm looking for a place to make a living, economic climate be damned, what are they like when it comes to cleaning the roads?

sexualbanana

12-10-2009, 10:32 PM

Originally posted by FraserB
They also have to be able to differentiate between a private citizen with a plow on their 4x4 and a contractor. If I have a plow on my truck and plow a friends driveway, does that make me a contractor or a nice person.

Doesn't matter because you're plowing their driveway not public roads.

Hakkola

12-10-2009, 10:45 PM

Originally posted by gretz
Saw Toronto's snow removal on TV...3 plows driving in unissen (sp?) down the 401 - all lanes in one pop.

I was stuck behind 3 plows and a truck on Glenmore last Saturday morning, couldn't get past them because they were clearing all the lanes.

ekguy

12-10-2009, 10:52 PM

Originally posted by TorqueDog
Yeah, when I'm looking for a place to make a living, economic climate be damned, what are they like when it comes to cleaning the roads?

They are fantastic!!!

89s1

12-10-2009, 11:08 PM

When I see a truck bombing down 32nd ave at 60km/h throwing sparks off his blade because he is plowing bare pavement I just sigh and think of how much more that is happening. Then i drive to market mall and see the same thing all over the NW, sparks flying off plow blades, "plowing" bare pavement.

Then the stupid shits at City hall feed us a line like: "We only have the budget to clear the main roads."

Little do they mention they clear the same road over and over and over and over until the pavement starts to chunk out, then we pay for that to get fixed the next summer while we wait in traffic jams due to construction. :banghead

The stupid fucks in city hall are too busy talking about ways to make the whole city one big kensington / 17th ave. Then they stop for overpriced lunches with 89coupe that we get the fucking bill for.

Afternoon session, they have a meeting to discuss ways to make sure Race city doesn't live to see another day and then hire consulting firms to read over their work and make decisions for them.

BUT OMG WHERE DOES ALL THE FUCKING MONEY GO??? It's just ridiculous. It makes my blood boil just to think about how backasswards every single thing gets done.

They need to get rid of everyone in city hall and start fresh. All new staff, even the fucking janitors. No severance packages either!

FraserB

12-10-2009, 11:12 PM

The problem is that the snow budget includes the money for summer cleanup. If that money was allocated separately then I think they whole thing could be done on a $25 million budget. All those street sweepers and rock disposal in the spring must cost a ton.

Sugarphreak

12-10-2009, 11:23 PM

...

FraserB

12-10-2009, 11:28 PM

Originally posted by Sugarphreak

I'd make it through there easy :)

If not FraserB will tow me out

Doubt it lol:rofl: How much does the Hummer weigh?

Plus, with your TOYO's and lockers, you might be pulling me.

J-D

12-10-2009, 11:32 PM

Enough speed and anything might be able to make it through.... you might lose a couple of body panels along the way, though :facepalm:

reno97637

12-11-2009, 12:02 AM

Originally posted by Jay911

Saddlemead Close, circa today, via CTV News (click for story):

http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/20091210/450_snow_saddle_091210.jpg (http://calgary.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20091210/CGY_snow_drifts_091210/20091210/?hub=CalgaryHome)

Nothing short of MatTracks is gettin' thru that crap.

LOL, CTV chose this pic? Just around the block, on 88th Ave, the snow ate up a whole bunch of cars and SUVs.

Xtrema

12-11-2009, 12:07 AM

whiskas

12-11-2009, 01:05 AM

I've had the snow plow go over the street in front of my place 4 times today. So nice and clear :D

And on top of that all the people idling in traffic melt it even more for me.

2EFNFAST

12-11-2009, 02:59 AM

I saw we pay more taxes so we can get mroe flowerpots put along roadside in the summer! :angel:

Q-TIP

12-11-2009, 10:23 AM

Originally posted by lsc2g
yea need a better budget

what i want to know is who the FUCK decided that rocks are good!.. like seriously they must not give 2 shits about the quality of thier vehicles

use some sand damnit! and put some salt down! i can't stand seeing icy intersections that could be fine if they put some salt down..

the rocks piss me off more tho.. first chinook its shotgun city to your paint and windshied.. oh great another front end respray coming my way

:guns: :guns:

Wow, just wow. Sand can work, however sharp edged rock does provide better traction in the hard cold ice we get here. Salt not only destroys your car, but obliterates nearby plant life, is a major contributer to groundwater and surface water contamination (my specialty) and DOES NOT F-ING WORK UNDER -6 Centigrade. People like you piss me off to no end.

I have been driving in this city for many many years. THE ONLY CAR I have considered respraying was 5 years old and it spent a lot of time on gravel roads. If you maintain a sane following distance your paint will be just fine.

mr2mike

12-11-2009, 10:28 AM

Tell us more about this plant life, groundwater and surface water contamination. Any studies conducted on road salt's damages?

FraserB

12-11-2009, 11:35 AM

Originally posted by mr2mike
Tell us more about this plant life, groundwater and surface water contamination. Any studies conducted on road salt's damages?

Get some road salt, dump it in your flower bed and see what happens.

89s1

12-11-2009, 12:12 PM

Originally posted by FraserB

Get some road salt, dump it in your flower bed and see what happens.

:werd: I hear a bunch of salt can really fuck with pH levels in the soil. And not just when dumped on the soil. Water runoff from salted roads does the same thing.

It also leaves stains on leather shoes/boots. :whipped:

mr2mike

12-11-2009, 12:20 PM

Yes, but if there's official studies done, maybe we can get the city to stop dumping as much down. I can tell where the city limits are exactly in the winter. It'll be a nice road with some snow cover then bam, slush city with the salt.

lsc2g

12-11-2009, 01:24 PM

qtip i do drive at a safe distance.. doesn't matter.. crowchild or deerfoot and your fucked... glenmore too for that matter now

a lowered car especially gets owned

i'd rather have sand than rocks and for the morons to learn to drive

and if i piss you off i enjoy taking used motor oil and dumping it on country roads to make an nice semi pavement:poosie:

in all seriousness though.. the city needs to get thier head out of their asses on this

last night on the news a guy from the roads crew was saying in the last 19 years they've gone over budget 17 of them..

umm maybe its time to up the budget.. oh wait we can't run this shit hole fucking city worth a shit.. so lets put some more flower pots on the side of the roads in the summer instead:nut:

Supa Dexta

12-11-2009, 02:52 PM

Originally posted by Q-TIP

Wow, just wow. Sand can work, however sharp edged rock does provide better traction in the hard cold ice we get here. Salt not only destroys your car, but obliterates nearby plant life, is a major contributer to groundwater and surface water contamination (my specialty) and DOES NOT F-ING WORK UNDER -6 Centigrade. People like you piss me off to no end.

I have been driving in this city for many many years. THE ONLY CAR I have considered respraying was 5 years old and it spent a lot of time on gravel roads. If you maintain a sane following distance your paint will be just fine.

So how does the grass grow on the sides of the road back east where they have sanded the last 50 years?

Strider

12-11-2009, 03:03 PM

Originally posted by KrisYYC
Another issue, now this could be it's own debate, is the sprawl. Properties on the far edges of the city cost way more to provide services to than properties in the inner city, yet they pay less property tax due to lower property values. Yet they are the loudest whiners.

I think the tax assesment should be changed. Why the hell should a guy in a million dollar apartment condo downtown pay 10 times the property tax that some schmoe in buttfuck suburbia pays when it probably costs the city 10 times what it cost to provide services out there compared to inner city?

1000% with you on that one... KrisYYC for mayor!

Originally posted by nonlinear

why? here's just a few:

maybe to avoid gridlock of the entire city, resulting in random 3 hour commutes home from work? or, prevent downtown offices from sending everyone home at 2 pm, which must cost millions of dollars in lost productivity. maybe to reduce the 600 accidents that can happen in 24 hours, which increase the fuck out of our insurance rate. or maybe to keep police and other saftey workers from having to direct traffic and push people who are stuck, so they can focus on their real jobs? or maybe to prevent the accidents that force complete CLOSURE of deerfoot and crowchild.

maybe that asshole in the million dollar condo has a heart attack, but can't be reached by an ambulance because it's stuck in snow-related traffic somewhere

:dunno:

i understand what you're saying about it being more expensive to clear the 'burbs, however, the issue is far more complicated than just affecting our daily commutes. this snow removal problem affects how the entire city functions.

I don't see it as being any more complicated than that "it's more expensive to clear the 'burbs". I blame the suburbs for this entire mess. If an average family of four didn't demand 3000 sq ft mcmansions for $350k, they wouldn't have to move to buttfuck suburbia and the city wouldn't have to build and clear roads that go out there. The city could then focus all of their efforts (and dollars) on inner city arteries, and nobody would have to deal with a 3 hour commute home. Instead, while the centre street bridge is turning into an inclined skating rink, for anybody trying to leave downtown, the plows and sanders are out halfway to airdrie.

nonlinear

12-11-2009, 03:08 PM

Originally posted by Strider

1000% with you on that one... KrisYYC for mayor!

I don't see it as being any more complicated than that "it's more expensive to clear the 'burbs". I blame the suburbs for this entire mess. If an average family of four didn't demand 3000 sq ft mcmansions for $350k, they wouldn't have to move to buttfuck suburbia and the city wouldn't have to build and clear roads that go out there. The city could then focus all of their efforts (and dollars) on inner city arteries, and nobody would have to deal with a 3 hour commute home. Instead, while the centre street bridge is turning into an inclined skating rink, for anybody trying to leave downtown, the plows and sanders are out halfway to airdrie.

ok, imagine this: KrisYYC's guy in the mllion dollar downtown condo runs a company in the downtown core that employs 50 people, 45 of which live in the 'burbs. is it not in his interest to clear the roads so his employees can get to work?

the point i'm trying to make is that having clear roads is important for more things than individual daily commutes. distribution of goods and services, saftey workers, your co-workers, your insurance rates, etc. etc., all depend on road travel. when the city is crippled by snow for 2 weeks like this, all of these suffer. how is that difficult to understand?

Strider

12-11-2009, 03:40 PM

Originally posted by nonlinear

ok, imagine this: KrisYYC's guy in the mllion dollar downtown condo runs a company in the downtown core that employs 50 people, 45 of which live in the 'burbs. is it not in his interest to clear the roads so his employees can get to work?

the point i'm trying to make is that having clear roads is important for more things than individual daily commutes. distribution of goods and services, saftey workers, your co-workers, your insurance rates, etc. etc., all depend on road travel. when the city is crippled by snow for 2 weeks like this, all of these suffer. how is that difficult to understand?

Yes, clear roads make it safer and and more efficient for all. I can't disagree with you on that one... that would be like saying winter tires do nothing.

But it comes at a price... wouldn't it be safer and more efficient if everybody lived within 10km of downtown or their respective industrial/commercial place of work? The city could plow 1/10 of the amount of road 10x more often, emergency services/"safety workers" would never be more than 10km away from any emergency, KrisYYC's guy in the million dollar condo would survive his heart attack because the paramedics aren't 30km away in panorama hills, goods and services wouldn't need to be distributed as far... blah blah blah.

Of course you didn't think of that when you fell in love with your house in suburbia, and you now expect everyone to cough up the extra money to plow your residential street (and if you honestly believe that cost is only $7, put down the crack pipe and give your head a shake). The worst part of it... with our system of property tax assessment, I'm paying more than you are to plow your damn street.

nonlinear

12-11-2009, 03:44 PM

Originally posted by Strider

But it comes at a price... wouldn't it be safer and more efficient if everybody lived within 10km of downtown or their respective industrial/commercial place of work? The city could plow 1/10 of the amount of road 10x more often, emergency services/"safety workers" would never be more than 10km away from any emergency, goods and services wouldn't need to be distributed as far... blah blah blah.

I absolutely agree with you, however I think at this point it's easier to implement proper snow removal than it is to tear up the whole city and redesign it.

Originally posted by Strider

Of course you didn't think of that when you fell in love with your house in suburbia, and you now expect everyone to cough up the extra money to plow your residential street (and if you honestly believe that cost is only $7, put down the crack pipe and give your head a shake). The worst part of it... with our system of property tax assessment, I'm paying more than you are to plow your damn street.

sorry pal, i live in a condo about a 7 minute drive from the downtown core (and that's with the shitload of traffic lights between home and there). or, i can walk about 10 minutes and take the train. try again.:bigpimp:

TorqueDog

12-11-2009, 06:59 PM

Proof-reading is fucking awesome.

Originally posted by Q-TIP
Wow, just wow. Sand can work, however sharp edged rock does provide better traction in the hard cold ice we get here.

Salt not only destroys your car, but obliterates nearby plant life, is a major contributer to groundwater and surface water contamination (my specialty) and DOES NOT F-ING WORK UNDER -6 Centigrade. People like you piss me off to no end.
Originally posted by Supa Dexta
So how does the grass grow on the sides of the road back east where they have sanded the last 50 years? I have underlined the important areas and added a couple line breaks so you see that he wasn't suggesting what you think he was suggesting.

Q-TIP

12-11-2009, 07:59 PM

Originally posted by mr2mike
Yes, but if there's official studies done, maybe we can get the city to stop dumping as much down. I can tell where the city limits are exactly in the winter. It'll be a nice road with some snow cover then bam, slush city with the salt.

The City is fully aware of the downsides of road salt, hence the reason they avoid using road salt below 6 degrees centigrade unless it is already mixed in the truck.

Q-TIP

12-11-2009, 08:03 PM

Originally posted by lsc2g
qtip i do drive at a safe distance.. doesn't matter.. crowchild or deerfoot and your fucked... glenmore too for that matter now

a lowered car especially gets owned

i'd rather have sand than rocks and for the morons to learn to drive

and if i piss you off i enjoy taking used motor oil and dumping it on country roads to make an nice semi pavement:poosie:

in all seriousness though.. the city needs to get thier head out of their asses on this

Well a few remarks to your comment. You can be fined heavily for pouring oil on any road surface, and I hope you are on a well because the L and DNAPL will eventually get into your water and lo-and-behold, you will be trucking in drinking water (7 clients THIS SUMMER)

As to lowered cars getting owned, well firstly, it is illegal to lower your car technically, so don't bitch, and secondly you know you live in Calgary get a 200 dollar 3M job.:dunno: