Something to ponder....

[Vagabond142]

No, no fancy links or websites here... just a thought that I came across while writing my novel...

At what point in history did bodily functions become rude? By this, I am meaning outgassing (burping, farting), expulsions (sneezing without a hand covering, or digging a stubborn snot nugget out with a finger), etc.

I mean, we are designed, biologically, to reduce biological matter into energy and waste products, and that produces some gasses. We also have a neurologically wired response to eject our nose mucus when we sense something is wrong in that area.

I honestly think that it came about when humans started thinking in the sense of classes... so probably Roman times, pre-Empire, when there was a noble class and a common class. Then again, the Romans did build their drinking rooms with a central pot for people to empty their stomachs into via their esophagus.

Just one of those thinks that sets your brain munching, wondering when it really did come about :)

[JRSC00LUDE]

The Money Pit. That is my response to that question.

[clem24]

So what you're saying is you burp like mad and/or let a nasty one rip and/or pick your nose in public and wonder why people stare at you.

[HyperZell]

Truly I tell you, the human race hath learned shame when the folly of the Original Ones Adam and Even were made known to the One Lord our God, and he in all his glory expelled them from Paradise and thusly were they to toil the Earth.


For more, please visit my brothers and sisters in Christ at www.landoverbaptist.org.

[snoop101]

Is some countries Burping after dinner is a compliment to the cheff.

As for farting. Well I dont do it in mass public, but at home I probably fart more then most people and my fiance deals with it. At work I let em rip too, but i usually just work them slowely and we got venting here.

Sneezing though is different especially during the cold season.

[Jeremiah]

This is why you're a virgin bud

[stevieo]

Originally posted by Jeremiah
This is why you're a virgin bud
HAHAHAHAHAHA damn son!

[Vagabond142]

Snoop: Yeah, the whole polite burp thing is what got me thinking. To give an idea of where this pondering came from, in the chapter of the novel I'm writing, it's a discussion between a computer program and a scientist, where the computer is trying to create an artificial personality to better understand human nature. The question comes up and the scientist can't answer, because he realistically doesn't know.

Of course, I did expect Beyond to act as normal and immediately assume that I myself perform these acts in everyday social encounters, an assumption that is grossly inaccurate. Thanks for the smart response, snoop. It came much earlier in the thread than I expected.

[nonlinear]

maybe our aversion to bodily functions evolved to prevent spread of disease?

[Vagabond142]

Originally posted by nonlinear
maybe our aversion to bodily functions evolved to prevent spread of disease?

Well, I can understand that in the sense of sneezing... it's just, as an anthropologist/sociologist by my university degree, I am interested by the fact that the aversion is solidly implanted in North American and European Western civilizations, but in other parts of the world they're just understood as being natural functions.

Which is why I'm pondering where, in modern or ancient society, it became impolite/rude. As stated above, even today, in many places on earth, a hearty burp is one of the highest compliments after a good meal.

I can provide other examples, although not related entirely to bodily functions, but of social views of the same behaviors. I will use Japan against North America as the basis here.

In Japan, noodles (soba, udon, etc) are a very common dietary staple, right up there beside rice and fish. However, whenever a noodle is served in a soup, or with a hot dipping broth, it is not only polite but EXPECTED that you slurp your noodles loudly and with energy. However, in North America, slurping pretty much ANYTHING, be it a cup of coffee, a bowl of soup, or anything making the slurping sound in conjunction with an edible item, is considered rude and offensive.

That's the kind of thing I'm pondering here. Japan and North America are both Western cultures, yet in Japan slurping is a compliment and expected social behavior while eating, while in North America it's "gross."

[TomcoPDR]

Originally posted by nonlinear
maybe our aversion to bodily functions evolved to prevent spread of disease?

:werd: :werd: :werd:

You have no idea how much I'd appreicate not seeing the Ex's vag rags in the bathroom mini-pale can.

[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by TomcoPDR


:werd: :werd: :werd:

You have no idea how much I'd appreicate not seeing the Ex's vag rags in the bathroom mini-pale can.

Then why don't you just stop hanging out at your ex's place, she's obviously done with you.

[Antonito]

The burping thing probably has to do with how bland most western food is. If someone around me burps I can smell it a mile away, but if I go somewhere "ethnic" to eat I can't smell anything over the curry or hot peppers or whatever.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by Vagabond142

In Japan, noodles (soba, udon, etc) are a very common dietary staple, right up there beside rice and fish. However, whenever a noodle is served in a soup, or with a hot dipping broth, it is not only polite but EXPECTED that you slurp your noodles loudly and with energy. However, in North America, slurping pretty much ANYTHING, be it a cup of coffee, a bowl of soup, or anything making the slurping sound in conjunction with an edible item, is considered rude and offensive.


I personally find it makes the people who do that (re: asians) seem like attention whores, because (IMO) there is CLEARLY no reason to do it, as I can eat noodles just fine without doing it. It SOUNDS disgusting. I guess maybe since I'm from NA, thats why it "sounds" disgusting.

As for burping, similiar, you can burp quietly, AND nobody has to breathe your disgusting breath. You should maybe look into why a lot of black immigrants (you know the ones I'm talking about) smell like BO constantly and don't do anything about it.

Its sort of ridiculous, the study you are doing, why don't you reword it and wonder WHY the (asian) populations DON'T find it disgusting?

Of course, after having read a lot of your posts, I wouldn't have expected you to have worded it any differently!

[Vagabond142]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1

Its sort of ridiculous, the study you are doing, why don't you reword it and wonder WHY the (asian) populations DON'T find it disgusting?


I'm not studying it in any seriousness. It's just a little social question that I'm pondering. I'm not going to write a bloody paper on it XD

And as far as I can determine, as to the why they don't find it nasty, is because it's their social norm. I guess the deeper item I'm pondering is just that, where and why our own "social norms" first appeared.

For example, in the middle ages, it was only the noble classes that had any access to anything approaching a bath. However, peasants, many times over, those that only washed in rivers or in the rain, lived healthier and at times longer lives (granted, living to 60 in the middle ages was nothing short of a miracle).

Yet, the social norm we live with today is the idea of the nobles, not of the massively larger peasant population. We bathe daily, sometimes twice daily, because of a social norm. :dunno: Only with modern science were we able to determine that bathing also helped remove some diseases and illnesses that are borne on our skin.

(And before anyone makes a comment about that, I shower and shave every morning. A communal social norm, if you will, that many men share.)

The responses in this thread are enlightening as well, speaking to the maturity (or lack thereof) of many. Isn't it interesting how automatically, some people look at the poster and not the post, whereas others look at the post then the poster, and others still don't care who posted but simply read the post and reply. Beyond is a weird microcosm, but interesting all the same XD

[Alterac]

The best thing to do, is let a wicked fart rip in a server room, or any room that recirculates the air.. haha..

[Xtrema]

http://weuropeanhistory.suite101.com/article.cfm/renaissance_table_manners

You question got me searching and finding that only peasants eat at kitchens.

So for 300 years, we went from eating at the kitchen, then dinning hall/room, and in 2009, we are eating at the kitchen again :D

[Dumbass17]

my sister is 26 and when i do see her a few times a year, she STILL burps and blows it into my face haha

pop makes me burp like crazy but i hold them in and let them out all airy.

i fart like a mad man in the morning, thanks protein shakes!


the worst is drinking a protein shake while on the treadmill after a workout. i can't stop farting!!

[QuasarCav]

Originally posted by Vagabond142



The responses in this thread are enlightening as well, speaking to the maturity (or lack thereof) of many. Isn't it interesting how automatically, some people look at the poster and not the post, whereas others look at the post then the poster, and others still don't care who posted but simply read the post and reply. Beyond is a weird microcosm, but interesting all the same XD

You've got to take a step back and look at your online personality. It's hard to read any thread that you post in without taking into account who the poster is.

[scat19]

Originally posted by QuasarCav


You've got to take a step back and look at your online personality. It's hard to read any thread that you post in without taking into account who the poster is.

I've never figured out who he is, but I think I've narrowed it down to mega-geek.

[stevieo]

whatever people say, i don't really care.. cause i slurp some of my soups when im eating out with my friends, i try to burp under my hands to keep it quiet, when i do fart i try to let them out quietly...but sometimes we all know how that turns out haha. i do however chew with my mouth closed, cause i dont see how anyone can enjoy seeing my food all mashed up in my mouth... but when im at home i don't care if i fart or burp out loud hjahha its more of a courtesy thing out in public.

[bjstare]

Originally posted by Vagabond142
.....
That's the kind of thing I'm pondering here. Japan and North America are both Western cultures, yet in Japan slurping is a compliment and expected social behavior while eating, while in North America it's "gross."



Originally posted by HiTempguy1


I personally find it makes the people who do that (re: asians) seem like attention whores, because (IMO) there is CLEARLY no reason to do it, as I can eat noodles just fine without doing it. It SOUNDS disgusting. I guess maybe since I'm from NA, thats why it "sounds" disgusting.

......

Its sort of ridiculous, the study you are doing, why don't you reword it and wonder WHY the (asian) populations DON'T find it disgusting?

Of course, after having read a lot of your posts, I wouldn't have expected you to have worded it any differently!


This is a ridiculous post hitempguy. It seems like you didn't even read what vagabond wrote. I guess I'll spell it out for you: The Asian populations "DON'T" find it disgusting because "slurping is a compliment and expected social behavior while eating". Is that not simple enough for you? Why do they eat with chopsticks, while we use silverware? Because that's just what we do. It's what our parents did, and that's what they taught us... just like the etiquette of slurping in Japan vs. not slurping here.

Its got absolutely nothing to do with certain people being "attention whores".

[Hakkola]

Originally posted by snoop101
Is some countries Burping after dinner is a compliment to the cheff.


In what country? I tried looking it up on snopes. When I was a kid I used to quote this "fact" but as an adult I don't believe it.

http://msgboard.snopes.com/message/ultimatebb.php?/ubb/get_topic/f/58/t/000969/p/1.html

[bituerbo]

Originally posted by Vagabond142
while writing my novel...

tbksBk8ZHlQ

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by cjblair






This is a ridiculous post hitempguy. It seems like you didn't even read what vagabond wrote. I guess I'll spell it out for you: The Asian populations "DON'T" find it disgusting because "slurping is a compliment and expected social behavior while eating". Is that not simple enough for you? Why do they eat with chopsticks, while we use silverware? Because that's just what we do. It's what our parents did, and that's what they taught us... just like the etiquette of slurping in Japan vs. not slurping here.

Its got absolutely nothing to do with certain people being "attention whores".

Clearly, you don't understand my post. I said it "seems" like it, not that they are. Most attention whores do a lot of little, irritating things to get attention, hence my example. Initially when I hear somebody slurping away, it just grinds my gears. Then its "oh, its an asian" and it turns into "meh, whatever" because clearly they don't have the same social norms.

I clearly understand the OP's point of view, and I challenged the way he worded his original question. I can see why he came at it with that viewpoint, and as I pointed out, was not surprised the way it was worded (loaded question).


However, peasants, many times over, those that only washed in rivers or in the rain, lived healthier and at times longer lives (granted, living to 60 in the middle ages was nothing short of a miracle).

I find this sort of humorous, due to the fact that causation does not imply correlation here.

Anyways, alls Ima sayin is that I figured the OP could have worded it differently, but I am not surprised (from reading his past posts) the way he did word it. In and of its self, its an interesting aspect of human nature and the OP's novel sounds interesting.

[bjstare]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1


Clearly, you don't understand my post. I said it "seems" like it, not that they are. Most attention whores do a lot of little, irritating things to get attention, hence my example. Initially when I hear somebody slurping away, it just grinds my gears. Then its "oh, its an asian" and it turns into "meh, whatever" because clearly they don't have the same social norms.

I clearly understand the OP's point of view, and I challenged the way he worded his original question. I can see why he came at it with that viewpoint, and as I pointed out, was not surprised the way it was worded (loaded question).


It's not that I didn't understand your post, you just neglected to say the things that you said in your second post haha. Had you said in your first post: "...Then its 'oh, its an asian' and it turns into 'meh, whatever'; because clearly they don't have the same social norms," it would have come across much differently. After hearing your explanation of the first post, it seems like we have similar points of view on all this haha.

[Vagabond142]

It was not intended to be worded as a loaded question o_O It was intended to be worded as a point of discussion, which I thought it had been. Sorry if it was seen otherwise :dunno:

And for those that may snicker at the novel thing... well hey, I really do enjoy writing, I've got thousands upon thousands of pages of fun, serious, dramatic, or fantasy fiction under my belt, just for fun, so I decided to take a crack at actually writing something that someone may want to publish :D Just a little dream of mine :D