Mandatory winter driving course

[msommers]

Some friends and I were discussing this last night. Curious on what your thoughts are before I chime back in.

[picmerollin]

yes!!!

I was able to get a free course like this about 10 years ago through a family friend who had pre-payed but then could not attend.

It was in the summer time but they put this slimey stuff on the road (huge empty parking lot for football stadium in edmonton) then they made you run the course and they would sporadically yank the ebrake while doing the couirse to help you learn how to correct from slides.

It was a ton of fun and really informative for the others who were not used to sliding around. I bagged the hell out of those cars and they really wanted you to get to the edge of control and see if you could bring it back.

It was second nature to me, but for a couple of people in the course they really really benefited from the principles being taught- since they had never really had any experience driving- let alone drifting or correcting slides. I fully believe that if they made proper tires the law and some real training like this the roads would be much more safe and efficient.

in a perfect world!!

[The_Rural_Juror]

I took one such course many years ago because it was paid for by someone else. Definitely well worth the money that I didn't spend.

[DonJuan]

No, cuz it would reduce the amount of LULZ that I would get from watching idiot drivers.

[89coupe]

Originally posted by msommers
Some friends and I were discussing this last night. Curious on what your thoughts are before I chime back in.

I think Alberta should have mandatory snow tires law.

[g-m]

Originally posted by 89coupe


I think Alberta should have mandatory snow tires law.
this. We can try to improve driver quality after thats taken care of.

[beyond_ban]

Originally posted by 89coupe


I think Alberta should have mandatory snow tires law.

Quebec = yes. FFS they have what we have right now, if not worse, for a solid 6-8 months.

Alberta = Not really necassary for the ~4 weeks we actually see this kind of weather.

[Kloubek]

I think one should be offered. A lot of people (such as my girlfriend) have no clue how to drive in the slick conditions.

[snoop101]

I wish we had a system like a lot of European countries. They take a whole course on driving and that includes changing a tire and doing basic maintanence. At 16 you can drive a mopped/100cc and lower bike and then at 18 you can start your classes on driving.

Im still somewhat new to alberta, but does anyone know why they made it 14 to get your learners here? Was there a decent reason for it?

[Sugarphreak]

....

[FraserB]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
They should impose a requirement for a winter driving course when you get your licence.


Skilled Driver > Snow Tires

Becides what about vehicles with large tires? You try finding a 315/75R16 snow tire.

I found some larger ones. If I wanted to pay $350x5 for Nokiaans and then $250 for rims.:eek:

[sxtothe240]

Course should not be mandatory, but optional.

And implementing discounts on insurance when the course has been completely would be nice.

2cents

[snoop101]

Originally posted by sxtothe240
Course should not be mandatory, but optional.

And implementing discounts on insurance when the course has been completely would be nice.

2cents

I do like this idea, but I would imagine that a lot of people would rather pay extra then to have to go through extra training. Alot of females would feel like they are looked down upon because there going for "extra" training and would rather pay the extra buck. IMO

[Sugarphreak]

...

[scat19]

Yes.

I saw this chick last night wonder why she wasn't going anywhere and why everyone was passing her. She had her caliber just pinned at the green light. Just sat there spinning her front tires, so loud I could hear it over my music :banghead:

[Kennyredline]

Take the word "winter" out of the tread title, and I'll buy that.

[snoop101]

Originally posted by scat19
Yes.

I saw this chick last night wonder why she wasn't going anywhere and why everyone was passing her. She had her caliber just pinned at the green light. Just sat there spinning her front tires, so loud I could hear it over my music :banghead:

Was she on her Cell phone too? :D

[wintonyk]

I think getting your learners at 14 is great, if you actually start learning then.

My first time ever driving when I was 14 was in a standard in an empty parking lot in March. Smartest thing dad could have done for me.

And taking drivers ed in the winter was also beneficial.

But many don't know the first thing about getting out of a skid. Just hit brakes and hope that abs will do everything for them sliding sideways. It is quite humorous to watch from sidelines though.

[Masked Bandit]

Winter tires + training still doesn't fix stupid. We've got too much government in society as it is, we sure don't need more.

[89s1]

Originally posted by scat19
Yes.

I saw this chick last night wonder why she wasn't going anywhere and why everyone was passing her. She had her caliber just pinned at the green light. Just sat there spinning her front tires, so loud I could hear it over my music :banghead:

I just hope her diff pin slips out and grenades the tranny.

Maybe then the mechanic will tell her not to spin her wheels at redline.

[Redlyne_mr2]

The need to revise the current driving course to include night driving, winter driving, defensive driving, car control, etc.

[GTI CANADIAN]

Just give a free course to yourself using an empty parking lot, a fresh snowfall, and a handbrake.

Althought CPS would probably consider this stunting.

[Hakkola]

Originally posted by Masked Bandit
Winter tires + training still doesn't fix stupid. We've got too much government in society as it is, we sure don't need more.

Then how do you explain better a better driving experience in European countries with mandatory winter tires and training, genes?

[Cock Knuckle]

Originally posted by snoop101
Im still somewhat new to alberta, but does anyone know why they made it 14 to get your learners here? Was there a decent reason for it?

They did this to try and cut down on drunk drivers. It has become a redneck right of passage that once a child turns 14, they are deemed old enough to be entrusted with their drunken parents safety.

What's that? Maw n' Paw want to go to the casino/bar/etc and get hammered; Bring Junior, he won't be allowed inside but if you give him $10 for gas that should keep the pickup truck warm. :end stereotype:


Well, At least there are good kids that stand to benefit from having the learners permit at 14. As far as the Euro license tests go (Germany specifically), passing the exam is like being given a goddamn golden ticket. Make it so F-ing hard that you believe the government is conspiring to keep you on a bike (which they are).

[snoop101]

Originally posted by Cock Knuckle


Well, At least there are good kids that stand to benefit from having the learners permit at 14. As far as the Euro license tests go (Germany specifically), passing the exam is like being given a goddamn golden ticket. Make it so F-ing hard that you believe the government is conspiring to keep you on a bike (which they are).

We have family over there and yes this is 100% correct. The daughter had a text book to read. lol. I feel very safe over there though.

[msommers]

Some interesting points so far. The poll results, albeit quite small at this point, are not what I expected. It probably has to do with the community which is I think, more prone to noticing driver error than the general public and therefore more likely to favor such a course.

As to no surprise, I'm heavily in favor of this. As Redlyne_mr2 mentioned, the current driving program needs to be revised. Future driving courses should be mandatory which would include winter driving, among other the things listed.

I know how people feel about winter tires as that discussion has been well beaten, so I won't bother going into it any further. I hope we can make winters mandatory here, I'll leave it at that. Since there is quite some resistance to purchasing winter tires (by choice and/or financial strain), the only other option left is education. While government intervention may not seem like a great idea, I can't come to a conclusion as to why making a driver's course mandatory could be a downfall. The only way to help combat stupid is education. If that education is forced, so be it, we'll all be better off.

I feel that driver's ed should be included as part of getting your graduated license. Learner's at 14, so between then and whenever you decide to pursue your driver's license the course should be implemented. This could be something that is part of high school. Also for new Alberta residents, this course would required in order for you to obtain an Alberta's driver's license. From a personal perspective, after taking my driver's ed course I noticed right away how much of a terribile driver my mom was! Being more aware and more defensive has become intuitive thanks to that course. Just because you can parallel park doesn't make you a good driver.

The benefits I see to such a mandatory program would be:

*Decreased collisions year round, this is obvious. However with that comes:
Pros
- Less strain on emergency services (ER, EMS, CPS, etc). Less money spent by Alberta government on healthcare. More beds available for other patients and so on.
- Insurance companies do not have to cover as many claims (vehicle and human recovery)
- Increased traffic flow
Cons
- Less bodyshop work coming in, less auto parts sold etc
- Less medications sold, medical recovery work (physio)

*A possible decrease in douchebaggery (maybe).

Who is going to pay for this?! Well quite honestly, if you can afford a vehicle, gas, maintenance, insurance just to use it you can afford to pay for driver's education. I'm sorry if you disagree but as stated many times, driving a privilege not a right.

[Canmorite]

We need better driver trainer in snow, high speed and night driving. We also need autobahns.

[snoop101]

One thing I like to note is that they need to have quality instructors teach the lessons. The people teaching new drivers how to drive are totally different then let say the courses that the BCBMW club put on for driving. They actually have quality driving instructors with a history in motorsports or profesional driving.

[The_Rural_Juror]

^they also cost a lot more.

[GQBalla]

Originally posted by 89s1


I just hope her diff pin slips out and grenades the tranny.

Maybe then the mechanic will tell her not to spin her wheels at redline.

ahaha

that was like this mazda 3 that was stuck on 1st st and 9th ave yesterday on the hill.

missed 3 lights cause of this guy just hammering on the gas and not goin anywhere.

finally clued into him to feather it. ahahha

[snoop101]

Originally posted by The_Rural_Juror
^they also cost a lot more.

True but the point is to teach someone how to drive in these conditions. The person who teaches you how to drive when your at the learners stage is there to pretty much teach you the rules of the road. He/she will not take you on a track and say "ok I want you to take the wet hair pin at high speeds and i'll teach you how to control the car and when to break and not to break".

Sure you spend more money, but like others have said it could save on insurance if it ever went through like that.

[masoncgy]

Meh... instead of a mandatory winter driving course, how about tougher licensing procedures and tighter controls on who does the driver training and handing out the licenses.

There are simply too many people on our roads who CLEARLY do not know how to operate a vehicle safely. There are too many holes in the current system which allows people to acquire their licenses through unscrupulous means...

It doesn't take a genius to drive a vehicle safely in poor conditions, winter tires or not, 4x4 or not... let's just eliminate the idiots at the starting gate.

[max_boost]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
They should impose a requirement for a winter driving course when you get your license. Maybe a regular driving course as well... a well trained driver would alleviate a lot of accidents


Skilled Driver > Snow Tires

Becides what about vehicles with large tires? You try finding a 315/75R16 snow tire.

This city can't drive. Easier to make them buy snow tires first.

[Hakkola]

Originally posted by The_Rural_Juror
^they also cost a lot more.

Which would take a lot of people off the roads, which I would be happy with.

[snoop101]

Originally posted by masoncgy
Meh... instead of a mandatory winter driving course, how about tougher licensing procedures and tighter controls on who does the driver training and handing out the licenses.

There are simply too many people on our roads who CLEARLY do not know how to operate a vehicle safely. There are too many holes in the current system which allows people to acquire their licenses through unscrupulous means...

It doesn't take a genius to drive a vehicle safely in poor conditions, winter tires or not, 4x4 or not... let's just eliminate the idiots at the starting gate.

I agree with this. In europe you can actually get a ticket for driving slow, driving to close to another vehicle, etc. Here you can have someone talking on there cell phone driving down the fast lane on deerfoot doing 10 km under the speed limit and no one would care. Then people get pissed off and pass and boom an accident happens. The person on the cell keeps driving like nothing happend.

[Stubby]

^^^ so true, and some people wonder where road rage comes from:nut:

[Kg810]

I would support a winter driving course. I'd also support a mandatory re-evaluation of your license and/or driver's test at certain ages (probably 60+). I'm just as scared of new drivers as I am scared of old people driving on the same roads.

Just two nights ago heading home from DT, this old driver (I'm guessing at least 65+) speeds up to about 55km/hr (in a 40km/hr zone) and slams into the car infront of him stopped at a red light. The old guy didn't break once. After the crash as we approached his vehicle he refused to roll down the window or even acknowledge us and instead kept looking straight and mouthed "9..1..1" with his hands on the steering wheel.

Anyways, a winter driving course would prevent a lot of stupidity that happens on today's roads so I would be down for this.

[Xtrema]

- Mandatory re-examination at license renew. Every 5 years regardless of age.

- Optional winter driving course with insurance discount for ones that taken it. Discount reset every 5 years.

- Optional winter tires with insurance penalty doubles for people who caused at fault accidents in winter months.

- Unable to provide proof of insurance within 24hr of request = immediate jail time of 48hrs minimum.

- Vehicle inspection every 10 years

[snoop101]

Originally posted by Xtrema
- Mandatory re-examination at license renew. Every 5 years regardless of age.



The issue with this though is I seen 80 year olds that shouldent be driving and get a test done and pass. You kind of wonder what there standards are.

[whiskas]

I have taken several performance driving schools and my insurance company would be more willing to drop my coverage than give me a discount because of it.

They're more interested in getting more money out of us than lowering our premiums.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by snoop101


The issue with this though is I seen 80 year olds that shouldent be driving and get a test done and pass. You kind of wonder what there standards are.

And problem is we privatized testing. A few bucks under the table get you a license.

Examiners should be reviewed.

All examiners should be tied to DL he/she passed. And if all accident is registered to the at fault driver's DL, we should be able to determine a ratio where say if the examiner is having a 10% accident rate on the DLs he passed, he should be fired.

[masoncgy]

Originally posted by Xtrema
Examiners should be reviewed.

All examiners should be tied to DL he/she passed. And if all accident is registered to the at fault driver's DL, we should be able to determine a ratio where say if the examiner is having a 10% accident rate on the DLs he passed, he should be fired.

I agree 100%... this is absolutely spot on. More accountability on those who are granting the licenses.

[KrisYYC]

I think the entire driver training course needs to be revamped.

It should be more like Euro standards where they actually teach you how to drive. Not just putt-putt along residential neighbourhoods.

Not only should this be implemented, but everybody should have to take a mandatory re-test. This would wipe about half of the female drivers off our roads and probably 80% of the immigrant drivers. The immigrant owned and operated schools would be gone too.

Result for the rest of us? Driving heaven :D

[jwslam]

my 2 cents is that 9/10 drivers lack the confidence to drive in snow i.e. those damn asians in their 50's OMG (that's not a racist comment because i AM asian.)

but i think mandatory winter tires will bring a sense of false confidence as well?

i think we should do that thing in that article posted recently, about no snow in moscow
http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?s=&postid=3182955#post3182955

and a mandatory course isn't needed but taking it and knocking off a chunk of insurance sure sounds dang good.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by jwslam
but i think mandatory winter tires will bring a sense of false confidence as well?

That's why I don't like mandatory. I rather like voluntary with incentives/penalties.

Education is key. I know tons of Asians avoid getting driver tests in winter. I think we should ONLY give driver test in Winter.

[jwslam]

Originally posted by Xtrema

I think we should ONLY give driver test in Winter.

yup that's how i got my GDL
and i got dinged for driving down the middle of 2 lanes as i didn't know the road and didn't see the lane markings til i was at a 4-way-stop

[johnboy27]

Originally posted by Xtrema


And problem is we privatized testing. A few bucks under the table get you a license.

Examiners should be reviewed.

All examiners should be tied to DL he/she passed. And if all accident is registered to the at fault driver's DL, we should be able to determine a ratio where say if the examiner is having a 10% accident rate on the DLs he passed, he should be fired.
I don't agree with retesting every 5 years, that is a bit extreme. Maybe after the age of 65 but even then it could be considered extreme. My old man turns 65 next year and his driving skills are still top notch, could probably outruna few "skilled" guys on this site around a track in both a car or a motorcycle.
As for the comment earlier about drivers who are new to Alberta needing to take a course in order to get an Alberta license, again very extreme. Most other provinces have non privatized testing, therfor a little less shady business and more drivers that actually had to pass the test. The province I come from can get more snow in one week than central Alberta can get in 2 months. I can see making people coming from outside of the country take a very strict test and course etc.

[jsn]

To be honest, I don't think a winter driving course helps that much. I took one back when I first started driving to lower my insurance. It didn't teach me anything that common sense wouldn't dictate otherwise. This is assuming that you have some sort of common sense.

They basically told me stuff like slow down when the roads are icy, increased stopping distances, etc. The only part that was remotely helpful was when they brought us to a closed off area and pulled the ebrake when we were turning to simulate a skid. It was a pretty easy countersteer to get out of the skid, so it was a fairly pointless drill.

Edit: considering the lack of common sense drivers posses as soon as snow hits the ground in Calgary, perhaps it should be mandatory...

[Tracer2008]

I don't think it should be mandatory, I mean I have been driving since I was 6 (having lived on a farm) and can control my vehicle in many situations :thumbsup:

[Tracer2008]

But then again, I know of quite a few that would benefit... Let it depend on your history and location of growing up Young teenage girls, and city teens would definitely 'be money in the bank'

[HungryJack]

Perhaps it could teach people not to drive around honking their horns needlessly, thereby reducing people's level of alertness when someone actually honks because they need to???

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by beyond_ban


Quebec = yes. FFS they have what we have right now, if not worse, for a solid 6-8 months.

Alberta = Not really necassary for the ~4 weeks we actually see this kind of weather.

^^^ The ice will be on the residential roads all winter long. Most accidents happen when people are within 5km of their homes.

interesting study in Quebec where before the law was put in place, 80-90% of people already drove with winter tires:

38% of accidents were caused by 10% of the drivers (the 10% that didn't have winter tires)

[johnboy27]

Originally posted by broken_legs


^^^ The ice will be on the residential roads all winter long. Most accidents happen when people are within 5km of their homes.

interesting study in Quebec where before the law was put in place, 80-90% of people already drove with winter tires:

38% of accidents were caused by 10% of the drivers (the 10% that didn't have winter tires)
I've driven threw Quebec a few times and I am inclined to believe that any one of the million people I drove past could have been part of that 38% , snow tires or not.LOL By far the scariest drivers in the country.

[heavyD]

You can lose your license for driving impared or getting too many speeding tickets. Why? Because you are high risk to get into an accident. Makes sense to me.

What doesn't make sense is that people that continue to get into multiple accidents whether it be even fender benders don't face losing their license. I know people that pay almost $500/month insurance because they have been at fault in numerous accidents. It doesn't keep them off the road as people can pay themselves out of it. IMO it should be a two strikes (over a period of time) and you are out rule. I'm willing to bet that many, many people with one accident on their record would certainly be more mentally prepared & focussed when getting behind the wheel and if not well they won't be on the road which is win for everyone.

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by heavyD
You can lose your license for driving impared or getting too many speeding tickets. Why? Because you are high risk to get into an accident. Makes sense to me.

What doesn't make sense is that people that continue to get into multiple accidents whether it be even fender benders don't face losing their license. I know people that pay almost $500/month insurance because they have been at fault in numerous accidents. It doesn't keep them off the road as people can pay themselves out of it. IMO it should be a two strikes (over a period of time) and you are out rule. I'm willing to bet that many, many people with one accident on their record would certainly be more mentally prepared & focussed when getting behind the wheel and if not well they won't be on the road which is win for everyone.

Think about the cost to the economy to have all of those productive people not getting to work and creating "wealth"

Safety is only #1 when money is #2. In this case, Money is #1.

[Stealth13]

Not worth my time or money, I would go for the mandatory winter tires though