City Council approves blowing money on study, instead of using money to clear roads

[Tik-Tok]

City to study mandatory residential sprinklers

In the wake of a massive fire that destroyed five Calgary homes, city council has asked for a study into the costs of mandatory sprinklers in every new home.

Ald. Bob Hawkesworth's motion, which was passed on Monday, calls for a feasibility study to be completed by December 2010.

"This is a great opportunity to improve the safety of residents, reduce the fire damage if a fire starts and it certainly makes a building far more safe for firefighters who are responding to a call," said Hawkesworth.

He raised the idea before five homes burned in the northwest neighbourhood of Citadel on Dec. 5, but Hawkesworth said the blaze underlines his motion.

The cause of those fires is still under investigation.

While Ald. Ric McIver agreed with the increased safety sprinklers bring for residents and firefighters, he questioned the costs of such a requirement.

"How much will this add to the price of a home?" said McIver on Monday. "I think [Hawkesworth] would agree with me — and he's been a pretty good supporter … and champion of affordable housing — and if we had $5,000 or $6,000 or whatever the tag is on the price of every new home I wonder how many more people will remain homeless as a result."

The Alberta government declined to include the sprinkler requirement in new houses in its amendments in 2008 to the provincial building and fire codes.

[Tik-Tok]

So instead of admitting they've done a shite job in the road clearing department, they plan to pass their mistake on to future home buyers?

Although in theory, sprinklers would be great in peoples homes, I don't think it would do that well in practice

Shoddy workmanship would lead to many leaks/damage. Access to water lines in your home would be hard to do.
Water lines would have to run in your ceiling, which can easily get below freezing in this kind of weather, leading to bursting pipes. These are just a few problems off the top of my head.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

:facepalm:

[revelations]

Ya good luck with that. Talk about a knee-jerk reaction.

[SJW]

What do you all expect from a council of no talent ass clown morons.

[TomcoPDR]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok
So instead of admitting they've done a shite job in the road clearing department, they plan to pass their mistake on to future home buyers?

Although in theory, sprinklers would be great in peoples homes, I don't think it would do that well in practice

Shoddy workmanship would lead to many leaks/damage. Access to water lines in your home would be hard to do.
Water lines would have to run in your ceiling, which can easily get below freezing in this kind of weather, leading to bursting pipes. These are just a few problems off the top of my head.

This. The water line frozing and what happens when the sprinklers do go off and now insurance still has to pay for recovery damages.

Sprinklers might or might not save the entire house, let's keep that in mind. (i.e. pending where the fire is started, cuz I'm 100% positive nobody is going to have a "sensor" in every single fuckin' room... so what if the fire gets started in little Johnny's room cuz he decides to light up a joint... by the time the fire spreads to a sensor area like the hallway, kitchen, family room, the house will still sustain damage)

Anyways, of course it's a good idea, but IMO not really effective. I'd rather go with all or nothing. Tell insurance I had a couple gold bars that got melted, million dollar cash in the matress, etc...

[Canmorite]

Have a link to the article?

[littledan]

How about proper clearance between houses and better exterior materials like brick instead of garbage vinyl siding...:banghead:

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by Canmorite
Have a link to the article?

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/calgary/story/2009/12/14/calgary-fire-sprinklers-required-hawkesworth-code.html

[Canmorite]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok


http://www.cbc.ca/canada/calgary/story/2009/12/14/calgary-fire-sprinklers-required-hawkesworth-code.html

Merry christmas.

[ekguy]

So stupid...Can't even fathom how stupid you'd have to be to think up something like this.

[revelations]

This is as smart as the mayor of Toronto calling for more gun control after the boxing day shoot out.

Really!!! The gang members shooting each other WILL promise to register their weapons!!!

[sxtasy]

Originally posted by littledan
How about proper clearance between houses and better exterior materials like brick instead of garbage vinyl siding...:banghead: exactly my thoughts. I will never buy a vinyl box of a house crammed between two other stick and vinyl boxes

[Kg810]

I don't see what all the fuss is about. How much money is actually being spent on this study to warrant you guys to have a rage over it?

Also, I believe The City has just approved an additional $2million for snow removal... so let's be happy instead of being little girls that want to rage at every little thing The City does?

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by Kg810
I don't see what all the fuss is about. How much money is actually being spent on this study to warrant you guys to have a rage over it?

Also, I believe The City has just approved an additional $2million for snow removal... so let's be happy instead of being little girls that want to rage at every little thing The City does?


I don't normally complain about the city councils decisions (my only other 2 real complaints have been that ridiculously unnecessary bridge, and that they won't help find new land for RaceCity), but this is a moronic knee jerk reaction to a flaw in the system that THEY caused in the first place.

I'm willing to bet this study doesn't cost a penny less than $300g.

[mr2mike]

Easy solution to the frozen sprinklers... city will pass the bill that it's tapped off your hotwater tank and you need to have the water with a circulating pump.

What about a study on how many house fires happen in a major snow storm resulting in multiple houses burning down? 1 case = a need for everyone to fire proof with sprinklers?!?

How about another study on the reduction in theft and B&E's while the storm was on?

Another study on using sidewalk heaters for all the side streets and the cost.

:thumbsup:

[nonlinear]

did they say how much money the study would cost?

[Supa Dexta]

Originally posted by mr2mike
Easy solution to the frozen sprinklers... city will pass the bill that it's tapped off your hotwater tank and you need to have the water with a circulating pump.



Don't you then run the risk of scalding people, either rescue or people trapped inside?

[vengie]

Didn't those 5 homes burn down because the roads were horrendous and the fire dpt. was unable to get there in a timely manner due to that??

please correct me if I am wrong...

[oilerfan4lyfe]

^^ That was part of the problem - the strong winds also played a role in allowing the fire to spread quicker than it normally would have.

[syritis]

Originally posted by TomcoPDR

Sprinklers might or might not save the entire house, let's keep that in mind. (i.e. pending where the fire is started, cuz I'm 100% positive nobody is going to have a "sensor" in every single fuckin' room... so what if the fire gets started in little Johnny's room cuz he decides to light up a joint... by the time the fire spreads to a sensor area like the hallway, kitchen, family room, the house will still sustain damage)

commercial building code states that there must be at least one sprinkler in each room and no more then 20ft apart in larger rooms?



Originally posted by vengie
Didn't those 5 homes burn down because the roads were horrendous and the fire dpt. was unable to get there in a timely manner due to that??

please correct me if I am wrong...

hence why they want the sprinklers, so that there is less damage done to the house whe nthe fire department arrives.

[syritis]

I'm sure that if the city invested the money to plow every residential road then 90% of the city would complain about their cars being snowed in and mountains on snow on sidewalks that are then the responsibility of the home owners and more complaints.

Short fore sight: yes the city could be doing more.
Long fore sight: the public would complain about the extra money being spent just causing more issues.

essentially there is no pleasing everyone. get over it.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by syritis
I'm sure that if the city invested the money to plow every residential road then 90% of the city would complain about their cars being snowed in and mountains on snow on sidewalks that are then the responsibility of the home owners and more complaints.

Short fore sight: yes the city could be doing more.
Long fore sight: the public would complain about the extra money being spent just causing more issues.

essentially there is no pleasing everyone. get over it.

I'd spend 1/2 hour digging my car out, then get into an accident and potentially lose earnings for a few hours, higher insurance rates (if found at fault), injury, etc.

OR have my house burned down because the fire dept. couldn't reach it in time, or have a loved one die because the ambulance couldn't reach them, etc. etc.

You are right, there's no pleasing everyone, but cleaner roads > 1/2 hour digging out your car.

[syritis]

would probably my more cost effective to buy 4x4 ambulances. then to keep every residential road clear for the slight possibility that there is a house fire.

really i've lived in calgary for 24 years now and this is the first time i've heard of city crews being unable to get access to the scene of an emergency.

[CUG]

Originally posted by syritis
would probably my more cost effective to buy 4x4 ambulances. then to keep every residential road clear for the slight possibility that there is a house fire.

really i've lived in calgary for 24 years now and this is the first time i've heard of city crews being unable to get access to the scene of an emergency. Right, because I've never been in shit with my 4x4 on black ice. I don't get the opposition to cleaning the streets.. it's far above anything I'll ever comprehend apparently.

[88CRX]

This just solidifies that our city is run by complete tards.

First off the city has no right what so ever dabbling into the national or provincial building codes. As if some stupid alderman knows what's best for building construction and safety.

On top of this it would only be a local city blaw which mean you could build in Airdrie or Okotoks without these new requirements and expenses. Talk about killing the local (Calgary) housing market. Such bullshit. Can't believe we pay these dumb fucks salaries.

Pisses me off just thinking about it. Regardless what this study costs it's a complete waste of time and tax payers money.

[mucat]

I like the idea. But we can improve on it. Why don't we required all vehicles to have snow plow installed during winters. BMW, Porche, big cars, small cars, smart cars, mountbikes, every freaking things on the road got a snow plow.

[msommers]

Conditions of the home probably didn't help either.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Home+Citadel+blaze+former+grow/2319651/story.html

Regardless, a sprinkler system I agree looks good on paper and that's about it. And to play devil's advocate, maybe it's not just needing more money but more equipment and manpower that is currently not available no matter how much money we had.

Something that I found quite interesting a couple nights ago on Global was that the city has quite a few reserve/"rainy day" funds for if shit happens like this. But one Aldermen mentioned that there are 6-7 million in reserve but he had no idea what it was reserved for!

I'd love to shadow someone on council for a year. Maybe there is a lot of behind-the-door stuff that is important but isn't talked about, and only the negative stuff gets publicized. Can the public sit in on council meetings to spectate?

[DayGlow]

Hate to rain in the bitch parade, but I remember silly hall on the news talking about this in the spring. They move slow, not fast knee-jerking to an incident.

[mr2mike]

Originally posted by CUG
Right, because I've never been in shit with my 4x4 on black ice. I don't get the opposition to cleaning the streets.. it's far above anything I'll ever comprehend apparently.

Because was it really that bad?? Not really.

I live out of the city, plowed my own driveway so I could get out (usually the most determining factor to IF I'm going to be able to get my vehicle to work or somewhere in Calgary because its up hill out of the house and drifts in badly). Then I drove way down to the SE. Actually got there in 15min rather than the typical 40 or even longer with snow traffic. No one was on the road except people who knew how to handle their cars in winter weather. Coming home, all the grandpas and new drivers had finally bagged their engines/transmissions and roasted their tires enough to climb off their side street. Traffic was back to a 45min trek home.
Why clean the streets... just encourages the poor drivers to think they can get to the store.
My support for cleaning the street is I'll have less SUV (I'm unstoppable) drivers out there. But then I'll miss the lulz when they're 100m in the ditch ass backwards, having to abandon their ride.
The 4x4 drivers will eventally weed themselves out by crashing on black ice (yourself possibly included) because 4x4 masks the sense of how much traction you really have until you hit the brakes or are really into it.

What do I drive? RWD, lowered, snow tires and trac control OFF. Worst combo, I know huh? Guess I should have sprung for the WRX or Escalade w/4x4 or lobbied Druh Farrell's office for more money for road cleanup.

I will admit, I got high centered out in the SE industrial park for 10minutes but a little sense of physics and you can figure it out.

The amount they plow, works for me and I'll adapt.