2010 Audi S5 or 2009 BMW Dinan S2 335xi?

[Freebs]

I am doing a bit of research for my old man. He is looking to sell his daily driver/winter car (2002 WS6 Trans Am) and pick up something that is AWD and somewhat sporty.

I got him hooked since last year when I picked up a 2008 Evo X and he is in love with AWD now lol.

Now he was set on an S5 since my friend’s family owns the two Audi dealerships in town and was more or less being coached into an Audi ahah just kidding but there was some persuasion


Then he just wanted to see his options and a guy at his work was talking about Dinan and how the S2 package + a new 335xi would work out to being around $1,000 more than a S5 so pretty comparable but the BMW being faster and more sporty after the package was put on. Plus Dinan will cover your warranty and BMW Calgary is an authorized dealer

Also to add, he is not interested in a STi or Evo (I tried), he wants a 2 door AWD standard.

Anyway let me know if you have experienced either car or something similar and also if you know how stiff Dinan suspension normally is let me know. He has a 2007 Z06 and doesn’t mind how stiff that is but would like it to be a bit softer for his daily driver


Thanks guys

[R-Audi]

Id go with the S4....
The S5 will get the exact same engine in a few years anyways. That being said..If hes coming from a WS6.. he would like the V8 of the S5.

[Xtrema]

I don't think there is a hotter 4 seater coupe than S5 right now. It would be even better if they slap the 3L TFSI in there. The only think that piss me off is the sunroof doesn't open, you can only prop it up.

335 are a dime a dozen. There isn't much S5 on the road.

Reading up on the new 3L TFSI in the S4. With the ABT ECU upgrade, it gets 435HP/384lb/ft. Quite a monster.

EDIT: S5 vert has the supercharge 3L instead of V8.

[Freebs]

Originally posted by R-Audi
Id go with the S4....
The S5 will get the exact same engine in a few years anyways. That being said..If hes coming from a WS6.. he would like the V8 of the S5.
I suggested it but he hates 4 door cars ahah I have tried for years to get him out of hating them but he is set in his ways for 2 door cars. I was actually looking at the S4 or a used RS4 when I was looking for a car but they were just a bit out of reach for my budget.




Originally posted by Xtrema
I don't think there is a hotter 4 seater coupe than S5 right now. It would be even better if they slap the 3L TFSI in there. The only think that piss me off is the sunroof doesn't open, you can only prop it up.

335 are a dime a dozen. There isn't much S5 on the road.

Reading up on the new 3L TFSI in the S4. With the ABT ECU upgrade, it gets 435HP/384lb/ft. Quite a monster.

EDIT: S5 vert has the supercharge 3L instead of V8.
335s are a dime a dozen but would be closer to what he is use to in his Trans Am. It dynoed at 400whp/415lbs.tq with the bolt-ons he put on right off the show room floor and my worry is he will be very disappointed with what the S5 V8 is putting out. He likes the convertible with the Supercharged V6 but he doesn’t want to deal with the convertible in the winter since that’s mainly when this car will be used (his TT Z06 and GNX are his summer drivers)

I saw a post on Audizine.com where they dynoed two S5's with the two different engines (V8 and the supercharged V6) on the same dyno one after another (both bone stock). The V8 made 270awhp and the V6 made 307awhp (they said they know it was a low reading dyno but it still shows the difference). So at 270awhp in a 3850lbs car vs his 400rwhp in a 3750lbs car he might be disappointed and getting a test drive in an S5 even when you know the owners is hard to do right now. The only one they have had that was not sold before it arrived is sitting in Royal Oaks show room but has summer tires. So if it warms up a bit we might be able to get it out for a test drive but even still it only has the Automatic transmission.

I may have to show him the specs on the S4 with the ECU upgrade, that MIGHT grab his attention but I am not holding my breath since it is a 4 door lol.

I have even tried suggesting an SRT-8 Jeep Cherokee but he said he will just put a TT kit or supercharger kit on his Tahoe before he buys a Jeep lol.

[dimi]

I can comment on the 335xi:

-worst suspension ever. Be prepared to spend some money on KW V3s.

-If he expects an evo feeling out of a 335xi, he is in for a big surprise.

[Freebs]

Originally posted by dimi
I can comment on the 335xi:

-worst suspension ever. Be prepared to spend some money on KW V3s.

-If he expects an evo feeling out of a 335xi, he is in for a big surprise.

It would have Dinan's stage 3 suspension with the S2 package which uses Koni shocks.

"the S2 also features the Stage 3 Suspension System which adds front Camber Plates to the Stage 2 spring, rear shocks and rear antiroll bar package."

What do you mean he is in for a surprise? for good or bad?

He drove my Evo X with a intake, test pipe, cat back and a stage 2 Cobb re-flash which Cobb says it puts it to around 370hp / 357lbs.tq (aprox. 300awhp/ 290lbs.tq from what people are putting down on mustang dynos) and it weighed in at 3860lbs. But the AWD systems I know are totally different with the EVO being an active set up and the BMW being a reactive set up.

[bubbley]

S5 ALL DAY

[funkedelic2]

S5's ill admit look really good. Audi makes great cars but really the 335i is going to out perform that car in every way possible.

I think the doors on the s5 coupe's doors are huge though, something about it is oddly shaped. Everytime ive seen one the driver looks really tiny. I like the S5 interior over the 335i as well.

They aren't that common because their over priced and too expensive given its competition. If he REALLY loves the way it looks then i guess its worth paying that much for one. Dinan is good stuff. Pricey but good! I haven't heard too many great things about the xi actually, i don't regret not going for one. The audi awd system im sure is better. Im glad that the car is already dinan equipped because the wheel gap on stock xi is RIDICULOUS. The things look like they've actually been raised lol.

Tell him to test drive both and see which one he likes better. Evo is also a great car. Tough decision!

[gram]

Go with the 335, you will be much happier. Just make sure not to use Ethanol based gasolines (like Husky or Mohawk) or you will be replacing your fuel pump quite often. I have a Dinan 335 so I am a bit biased.

The 335 will be much better with the Dinan suspension. Thankfully you can use m3 parts as well (replace some of the suspension components like sway bars/end links) If you go with the 335 be ready to buy better brakes as well, the stock brakes are not good enough for that power increase.

The Dinan suspension is not really the same as Koni. They use Koni shocks but they are re-valved, much better than the stock Koni units. (this is on the I at least, I didn't research the xi-suspension is different between the two)

[Freebs]

Originally posted by funkedelic2
S5's ill admit look really good. Audi makes great cars but really the 335i is going to out perform that car in every way possible.

I think the doors on the s5 coupe's doors are huge though, something about it is oddly shaped. Everytime ive seen one the driver looks really tiny. I like the S5 interior over the 335i as well.

They aren't that common because their over priced and too expensive given its competition. If he REALLY loves the way it looks then i guess its worth paying that much for one. Dinan is good stuff. Pricey but good! I haven't heard too many great things about the xi actually, i don't regret not going for one. The audi awd system im sure is better. Im glad that the car is already dinan equipped because the wheel gap on stock xi is RIDICULOUS. The things look like they've actually been raised lol.

Tell him to test drive both and see which one he likes better. Evo is also a great car. Tough decision!

Well he won’t be able to take a Dinan equipped 335xi for a test so he is going to have to take a stock 335xi for a test drive and try and guess what another 100hp will feel like and the suspension and such.

Have you heard of any issues with them? I know there is overheating issues even with spirited driving around town, but Dinan takes care of this I believe with a larger oil cooler.

[gram]

The overheating issue is not true at all. With Dinan's oil cooler it can run hot but I have never gone in to limp mode or had it above the 1/2 way mark. The stock oil cooler could be an issue but if you are going stage 3 that won't be anything to worry about as you will get the upgraded oil cooler and fmic.

I have an 07 335 with pretty much every Dinan part you could add but went with different exhaust and Brembo brakes (same thing really but Dinan is a rip off for their re-branded Brembos)

Dinan is amazing with service/warranty as well. I had the turbos go and they simply replaced them w/out any questions. So don't worry about warranty coverage, they are amazing with warranty.

[Freebs]

Yea the warranty is what he likes with the Dinan package.

You have the Dinan suspension right? Is it super stiff or not to bad for our roads?

[max_boost]

I would buy the S5 just because half the City is driving 335's. :thumbsup:

[Freebs]

Originally posted by max_boost
I would buy the S5 just because half the City is driving 335's. :thumbsup:

lol this is true. But I have been doing some research for him on a few Audi sites and the 4.2L V8 seems to be strung out to the limits from the factory... The best I can find for bolts-ons and a tune is 375hp (up from 354hp) that is TERRIBLE for a V8. I understand it is a small displacement V8 but that is still sad. My tiny 2.0L 4 cylinder made another 80hp from an intake, test pipe, cat back and a generic tune.

S5
Pros
- Better AWD
- Slightly better looks

Cons
- Very underpowered from stock (only putting out 270awhp)
- Power can’t really be increased without a $40,000 MTM Supercharger upgrade

335xi
Pros
- For the same price as the S5, makes 50hp more and is lighter
- Room to grow even from 400hp

Cons
- Not as good AWD system
- More common

[pf0sh0]

S5 or S4 josh! do what is right.

[Freebs]

Originally posted by pf0sh0
S5 or S4 josh! do what is right.

lol it's not for me... otherwise it wouldn't be a question.. I would just go with the S4 and be done with it.. But my old man is picky with his cars gets bored with anything less than 400whp and doesn't like 4 door cars lol so this is going to be interesting

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

Dinan if he wants to go faster in the future.

[KyleTA]

how much will he be asking for the ws6? how many k on it?

[Freebs]

Originally posted by KyleTA
how much will he be asking for the ws6? how many k on it?

Well a bunch of his buddies all want it but he was going to ask $18,500

2002 WS6
- 6 speed
- 110,000kms
- SLP Loud mouth exhaust
- SLP long tube headers (I think they are SLP?)
- SLP heads (again I think they are SLP?)
- Intake with K&N panel filter
- Tuned by DavenPort
- WS6 16" wheels with winter tires
- Trans AM 17x9 summer wheels/tires
- Still on original clutch and no signs of slipping at all, but I imagine if you were to race it you would need to replace it and he does have the stock LS7 clutch for sale from his Z06 that only has approximately 450kms (from Ontario to Lingenfelters shop) that could be made to work on this car.
All modifications were put on almost right off the show room floor (about 40kms on the car) at DavenPorts shop and it made 400whp/415lbs.tq on their dyno. Since then it’s just been driven as a daily driver and we took it down to Las Vegas and back with no issues at all a few summers ago and still starts up and runs like a top. As you can see in this post, only reason he is looking to sell it, is because he wants an AWD car for his daily/winter vehicle otherwise he was just going to keep this car and drive it.

Also to add to this. He still hasn't made up his mind yet and might end up keeping it, but I am sure if the offer is there he wouldn't say no.

[KyleTA]

thx for the info! Ive seen the car driving around, its pretty nice

[Godfuader]

Originally posted by Xtrema
I don't think there is a hotter 4 seater coupe than S5 right now...

Originally posted by max_boost
I would buy the S5 just because half the City is driving 335's. :thumbsup:

[Freebs]

Originally posted by KyleTA
thx for the info! Ive seen the car driving around, its pretty nice

lol ? what do you mean... I am sure there is more then 1 WS6 T/A in calgary...

[rp_guy]

Originally posted by Freebs


lol ? what do you mean... I am sure there is more then 1 WS6 T/A in calgary...

even in the summer i rarely see any f-body's.. i saw 1 WS6 all year, and it was parked.. haha

too bad i can't afford that car though, good luck with the sale

and i would def choose the S5 (although the A5 seems to be a popular chick car)
another alternative would be the G coupe? have you looked at japanese cars? and if he is willing to wait, there's a 95% chance of a CTS Coupe AWD coming out too :thumbsup:

[Freebs]

Originally posted by rp_guy


even in the summer i rarely see any f-body's.. i saw 1 WS6 all year, and it was parked.. haha

too bad i can't afford that car though, good luck with the sale

and i would def choose the S5 (although the A5 seems to be a popular chick car)
another alternative would be the G coupe? have you looked at japanese cars? and if he is willing to wait, there's a 95% chance of a CTS Coupe AWD coming out too :thumbsup:

ahah yea some people think he is crazy to drive it in the winter, not to mention with 400rwhp but it actually has never had an issue in the winter even with our huge amounts of snow we got a few weeks ago it just acted like a tank and kept on going

I think he looked into the G coupe and you can only get the AWD in the automatic transmision. Like the 4 door issue that is another thing he will never drive is an auto. He didn’t even like my TC-SST twin clutch in my Evo lol.. Just the awd fun

Humm I will let him know about the CTS...

[Kg810]

Before you talk to your dad about the Dinan 335i/xi, read this thread here: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=261655

Some members have reported a power loss with Dinan stage II and III over time.

Although the 335i/xi is a great car (my dad and my girlfriend both have one) with a great price there is just too much uncertainty with it's reliability. The 335 alone, without the Dinan mods, is a hit or miss already. Couple that with a reported power loss with Dinan stage II and III, you definitely be gambling with your car's reliability in the future. If its a car he wants to own for a long time, I'd avoid the 335. If he just wants to have it for 3-4 years, by all means get it.

Yes, BMW has issued extended warranty on the fuel pump but, honestly, that doesn't mean much. You're still going to experience the hassle of limp mode, calling the dealership, getting a loaner - excuse me I mean rental since Calgary BMW and BMW Gallery always seem to be out of loaners for some reason (I wonder why..), waiting for them to fix it and not be gauranteed a permanent fix. If it weren't for our lack of a lemon law in Canada, I wouldn't be advising you to tell your dad to not get the 335.

I can't speak for the Audi dealerships but, I be willing to wager that they are way better than BMW dealerships here. I drive a 328xi myself and although I have zero complaints about my car, I can't stand going to the dealership. It just sucks and your dad wouldn't enjoy it, seriously.

I'd sit down with him and work out what he wants, what he doesn't mind, what he needs and how long he would like to keep his next car for. Then with those things established, do research on both cars. Though, it will be hard for you to get a good amount of information on the S5 as compared to the 335. Audi has a small online community, while BMW has, imo, one of the best communities. So when you do do research, don't be totally swayed to the S5 just because you couldn't find too much dirt on it while the 335 will be a mountain of dirt, it will only be because of the size of the community. Hope this helps.

[.civictyper.]

FREEBS, I WANT A RIDE IN THE EVO AND THAT Z06!!!

[TorqueDog]

I'd be torn. I absolutely love the Audi S5.

[ICEBERG]

I have the Dinan package on my 335i. If i had to choose one i would go with the S5. It is very hard for me to recommend the 335i with all the problems i had.

2 high pressure fuel pumps
1 low pressure
All injectors changed
replaced the Turbo actuator.
replaced coil packs,
Replaced spark plugs
replaced the ECU

When the car is not in the shop it is Blast to drive though. There where few M3 and S5 owners that got a good look at my rear tail lights. At these elevations the Chipped Twin Turbos will outform the V8's...

[ICEBERG]

Originally posted by Kg810


Some members have reported a power loss with Dinan stage II and III over time.



I also have the same problem with my Dinan stage III as these guy's had.

• Massive increase in gas mileage. You will notice this first.
• Very rough ideal at start. Car now stumbles in gear when cold and did not before
• Car starts to die or limp with ¼ tank of gas.
• Major torque reduction at 4000 RPM
• Sluggish or lumpy throttle response. You can actually feel throttle closure on continuous high load demands. Those who tack know this.


Even now my car is sluggish. Waiting till spring to get it back to the dealer to see what is going on.

[Freebs]

kg810 - Thank you for that information and I will defiantly dig deeper to see what I can’t find. I know BMWs reliability history was what turned me away from buying a 2004 M3 last year.

ICEBERG - Thank for sharing your opinion. I like when people who have real life experience with what you are looking at chime in and give their honest opinion rather than making it seem like the greatest thing ever even when you know there are problems.



Originally posted by .civictyper.
FREEBS, I WANT A RIDE IN THE EVO AND THAT Z06!!!

lol the Evo is fun but nothing to crazy in my opinion... could be because I am use to the 800hp in the Z06 but we should have the Z06 out to the track this summer. I don’t know if I will be racing it or the Gnx, but if I am using the Z06 I could give you a quick rip down the track in it. It’s got the potential for high 9's :) with the Gnx close behind with potential for mid 10's and the Evo far back in the mid to high 12’s :( lol

[KyleTA]

Originally posted by Freebs


lol ? what do you mean... I am sure there is more then 1 WS6 T/A in calgary...

I worked at a dealership a while back and he brought his z06 in and had his t/a there as well... ive seen it around a bunch (even in the winter)
I pay attention to ls1 t/a's haha.. i have 2 of them so I am partial.

[pinoyhero]

s5 looks way hawter but even non-chipped 335i is wicked fun and much cheaper, I love mine!

[Freebs]

Well he has decided to ditch the 335xi option and the S5, and is now deciding between an Audi RS5 if it comes to North America and a 2010 GTR.

The 335 he ditched because of the reliability issues and the S5 he ditched because of the power it was making (only 270whp). He even looked into putting bolt-ons on the S5 and from what we both found, the most power you could push out of the S5 without boost is around 400-415hp which is only about 325whp and to add boost it would be an extra $40,000 which puts the total cost of the car into the $120,000 range and is not worth it when there are other cars he could look at that would give the same power for the same price and keep a warranty.

He wants something that is going to be the same power as his car now (400whp) without having to modify it at all or if he does have to modify it, he can keep a warranty (such as the Dinan 335 package).

[heavyD]

Hey Freebs. How's the smell with the TP on the EVO?

[benyl]

Originally posted by Freebs

He wants something that is going to be the same power as his car now (400whp) without having to modify it at all or if he does have to modify it, he can keep a warranty (such as the Dinan 335 package).

E63 coupe.

CTS-V coupe.

[benyl]

Originally posted by ICEBERG

• Very rough ideal at start. Car now stumbles in gear when cold and did not before
• Car starts to die or limp with ¼ tank of gas.


What version of Progman is your car running.

My was upgraded to the latest (35.3 or something) and all this went away.

[Freebs]

Originally posted by benyl


E63 coupe.

CTS-V coupe.

E63 is only RWD though, he is looking for something AWD

CTS-V is GM... ahah believe it or not he swears he will never by GM again even though his entire line up is GM lol but after the experience he got with the Z06, he swore he will never buy a GM again... that and they aren’t high up on the AWD performance list of cars which he after

[ICEBERG]

Originally posted by benyl


What version of Progman is your car running.

My was upgraded to the latest (35.3 or something) and all this went away.

Hi benyl,

From what the tech told me at the dealer everything was up to date. But still having some limp mode problems at 1/4 tank and rough idle. Have to take it in again for them to check.

Been using Shell V-Power but the problem is still there. Now i developed a rattle on the clutch pedal too.. This is never ending. :(

[sneek]

Originally posted by ICEBERG


Hi benyl,

From what the tech told me at the dealer everything was up to date. But still having some limp mode problems at 1/4 tank and rough idle. Have to take it in again for them to check.

Been using Shell V-Power but the problem is still there. Now i developed a rattle on the clutch pedal too.. This is never ending. :(

Rough break! How was your car prior to the Dinan mods? Formerly I was running the JB3 and could not have been happier with the performance. The only thing I hate about the car is that it doesn't really launch all that smoothly (AT) and it is quite a bit more noisy than the Mercedes.





:drool: RS5 in blue or black!

[pinoyhero]

RS5 blue ... closed

[Freebs]

Originally posted by pinoyhero
RS5 blue ... closed

ahah that is the color he wants if the RS5 comes across the pond... the darker blue... I am trying to push the GTR though ahah but my buddy whose family owns both the Audi dealerships here in Calgary is pushing him to get the RS5.. not like they need more business..

[FiveFreshFish]

Can't beat a family deal. Go with the Audi.

[Freebs]

Originally posted by FiveFreshFish
Can't beat a family deal. Go with the Audi.

Yea but even their price isn’t much on the RS cars... their big money makers are the Q6s and such. Like my price on a S5 isn't much better than anyone else would pay.

[kwazy]

If you have a hook up at the audi dealership, why not get the R8?

[pinoyhero]

I was thinking the lighter blue like the old nogano

[Couture]

Ebony Pearl Effect RS5. :rolleyes:

[Freebs]

Originally posted by kwazy
If you have a hook up at the audi dealership, why not get the R8?

Because he is looking for a daily driver in the $85,000-$90,000 range. He has his Twin turbo C6 Z06 for his insane power car and a R8 even with my discount is going to be mid $100k easy.

Plus once my Evo X has run its course I am going to be looking at picking up an R8 or GTR ahah so he can’t be copying me.


And talking more with him last week before I left, he said if my buddy can confirm an out the door price of $90k he will be the first one driving an RS5 in the city... but if they get a confirmed price above $95k he will order a 2010 Premium GTR from the states since he made some calls and the price after it crosses the border with all the taxes and such added in will be around $92-$95k depending on our dollar.

[TorqueDog]

Originally posted by pinoyhero
I was thinking the lighter blue like the old nogano I was nuts over the Nogaro Blue S4. That was THE car I wanted, until I played Need for Speed - Hot Pursuit 2, which is when I was introduced to the E39 M5.