winter tires, by law

[methodicreign]

This thread may have already been started, but what do you guys think about the proposed law that will make winter tires manditory in alberta?
Personally I am all for it, my winter rubber has saved me from rear ending asshats 3 times already this winter. Apparently leaving breaking distance means enough room for someone to jump in front of me then stop. It was a hot topic at work with both sides arguing pretty hard.
Interested to hear what the enthusiast community has to say

[ryder_23]

atleast better enforcement on shitty ass bald tires in winter...perfect world winters forsure, but damn some of the cars even in my parkades tires are just beyond bald...better off riding my motorbike then that shit.

[FiveFreshFish]

Sure, I've had winter tires on all my winter-driven cars for years.

[StreetRacerX]

Agreed, and not just because I have a set now, I used to use all seasons, major difference in how they perform compared to winters, I don't care what they say, winters are definitely the way to go this time of year.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

I am all for it.

[Powdercoat17]

Do it!

[treefiddy]

Ha. I use my summers and do fine. Commuting from the NW to SE and out to Chestemere proves easy. I roll right with regular traffic at decent speeds too.

[A2VR6]

Good idea... but how are they going to enforce it?

[bmeier]

I think a better Idea would have the insurance companies give rate reductions if you have winter tires.

[rage2]

Originally posted by A2VR6
Good idea... but how are they going to enforce it?
Probably when you get pulled over, or cop arrives at scene of accident, the tires will be checked. If it's a law, insurance can deny your claim, like how they can deny your claim if you're drunk.

[shakalaka]

Alberta could definitely use something like this.

[7thgenvic]

Winters have saved me MANY times. I would be all for it! If people are cheap they can still go to Walmart and get a set of Nexen's for cheap.

[hampstor]

So long as an A/T tire or an A/T tire with severe snow ratings is acceptable I'd be ok. I just can't afford 10 tires like some of you ballers!!

There are quite a few A/T tires which are a good alternative to a winter tire.

[max_boost]

Time to open up a tire shop!

Are there even enough tires to go around? Right now a lot of stock is already sold out.

HOw many cars are on the road right now? Any guess the % of cars with snow tires in this City? 10%? :dunno:

Basically to survive winter in Calgary is to survive the big snow falls days, the -15 and colder days. On a day like today with temperatures hovering around 0 (thank you chinook wind) and the amount of crap that's on the roads, you can get by without. I still rather not chance it. The grip between snows and all seasons is night and day.

[rage2]

The reason why it's all sold out so early is because the allocation all goes to Quebec right now. If they make it mandatory, the government will work with the tire manufactures and distributors to ensure there's enough to go around here.

Right now, they just allocate enough/slightly under the demand here, so there's no leftover tires sitting over the summer.

And for those that care, here's Quebec's regulations on winter tires.

http://www.mtq.gouv.qc.ca/portal/page/portal/grand_public_en/vehicules_promenade/securite_routiere/securite_conditions_hivernales/reglement_utilisation_pneus_hiver

[Abeo]

Originally posted by hampstor
So long as an A/T tire or an A/T tire with severe snow ratings is acceptable I'd be ok. I just can't afford 10 tires like some of you ballers!!

There are quite a few A/T tires which are a good alternative to a winter tire.

I ran BFG's on my truck last winter. Awesome in snow, TERRIBLE on ice. Never again.

[luxor]

One word: YES!

[johnboy27]

Originally posted by 7thgenvic
Winters have saved me MANY times. I would be all for it! If people are cheap they can still go to Walmart and get a set of Nexen's for cheap.
This year I was just gonna pick up some Nexen studded tires, I went and got a quote 3 days before payday. Went back on payday (light snow was in the forcast for the weekend) and the price of each tire went up 30 bucks I believe. Can you imagine what the prices will be like when it becomes mandatory, most tire shops try to ream the shit out of you for any brand name tire. Last year I needed 2 X-ice (discontinued) and I went to Kal tire and the guy told me there were three left in western Canada in my size. I have a discount card threw my work for Kal and the guy still tried to get 400 bucks out of me for 2 installed and they are only 15 inch. I just ran the near worn ones for the rest of the winter. Got 4 95% or better Hankook I-pike studded tires this year off Kijiji for 300 bucks instead.

[johnboy27]

Originally posted by hampstor
So long as an A/T tire or an A/T tire with severe snow ratings is acceptable I'd be ok. I just can't afford 10 tires like some of you ballers!!

There are quite a few A/T tires which are a good alternative to a winter tire.
Sorry to say but if the force cars to run snows then it should be forced for pickups also. There are too many yahoo's out there that think because they have four wheel drive and "all terrain tires " they can do mach 1 on any road.

[gqmw]

Originally posted by bmeier
I think a better Idea would have the insurance companies give rate reductions if you have winter tires.

That would be a solid idea too.

[rage2]

Originally posted by johnboy27
Can you imagine what the prices will be like when it becomes mandatory, most tire shops try to ream the shit out of you for any brand name tire.
They'll be lower. We have slightly less supply here than demand because it's not mandatory, and shops don't want to stock unsold winter tires during the summer.


Originally posted by johnboy27
Sorry to say but if the force cars to run snows then it should be forced for pickups also. There are too many yahoo's out there that think because they have four wheel drive and "all terrain tires " they can do mach 1 on any road.
Funny story, just Monday night I was driving on Crowchild at around 10:30pm, when an SUV and a truck passed me on the left lane (I was in the middle). One lost control, and they played pinball across 3 lanes of traffic with another SUV. 3 AWD monsters just bouncing out of control right in front of me. Behind me, everyone slammed on their brakes, and 2 SUV's got sideways. I was in the middle of it all, and was able to easily drive around EVERYTHING in a car that's not really designed for winter. Winter tires FTW.

[hampstor]

Originally posted by johnboy27

Sorry to say but if the force cars to run snows then it should be forced for pickups also. There are too many yahoo's out there that think because they have four wheel drive and "all terrain tires " they can do mach 1 on any road.

I partially agree, and partially disagree - 2 points:

First, there are quite a few A/T's that are rated for severe snow. The ones that are not, i'll concede to not being acceptable for winter use (ie: BF all Terrain T/A KO's are not severe snow rated). However the ones like the one i've got listed below are rated for severe snow and are considered acceptable (by Quebec's laws anyway).

Secondly, as your post clearly stated - it's all relative to how people drive. Winters on a 4x4 with a driver who thinks it's perfectly safe to go mach1 is not any safer than the same driver in the same vehicle with A/T going mach1. If anything, if everyone got winter tires, I could see some people viewing them the same way they view 4wd and overdrive for the conditions. Again, it's all about the driver. The equipment helps so long as the driver knows how to use it.

ie: A/T that is rated for severe snow (which I hopefully will have on before christmas). Got a killer price on these, Goodyear Wrangler Duratracs:
http://www.1010tires.com/images/tires/Goodyear/Goodyear_WranglerDuraTrac_lg.jpg

Overall yes, if everyone had proper winter tires, we would all be better. More laws to deal with, well that's another story :)

Edit: turns out only some bfg at ta ko's are not snow rated. Depends on the size :nut:

[FiveFreshFish]

Originally posted by rage2

They'll be lower. We have slightly less supply here than demand because it's not mandatory, and shops don't want to stock unsold winter tires during the summer.


But property taxes, services and prices of other goods will go up when businesses and municipalities have to swap over to winters.

[89s1]

So this means they would eqip fire engines, police cars/suvs/vans, and all the city vehicles (city services and buses.)

God I can only imagine the hike in tax they would propose to cover the costs. :nut:

[johnboy27]

Originally posted by 89s1
So this means they would eqip fire engines, police cars/suvs/vans, and all the city vehicles (city services and buses.)

God I can only imagine the hike in tax they would propose to cover the costs. :nut:
I think you will find that fire engines would be exempt as most likely have chain spinners in the rear and the massive weight of them when they are loaded with water makes steering and braking pretty easy compared to a passenger vehicle.

[FraserB]

Its all nice until you get bent over on taxes so the CPS and bylaw and CoC can equip their fleet vehicles that would need the tires. Then people will bitch about tax hikes. Then they bitch when taxi rates got through the roof.

If they allowed tires with the severe snow rating it would work better.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally posted by hampstor



ie: A/T that is rated for severe snow (which I hopefully will have on before christmas). Got a killer price on these, Goodyear Wrangler Duratracs:
http://www.1010tires.com/images/tires/Goodyear/Goodyear_WranglerDuraTrac_lg.jpg




Nice, you went with the Duratracs! :thumbsup: Let me know how you like them.

[msommers]

Originally posted by FraserB
Its all nice until you get bent over on taxes so the CPS and bylaw and CoC can equip their fleet vehicles that would need the tires. Then people will bitch about tax hikes. Then they bitch when taxi rates got through the roof

Such is life man. I'm all for this.

[SRT10Killer]

I talked to a shop in edmonton when ordering tires , I asked for all seasons with a winter emphasis and they told me they ordered a lot less all seasons this year because alberta is planning to follow quebec.

It could be for real or it could just be that they are trying to sell more winter tires :dunno:

[Alak]

When I first saw the article, It got me thinking about low income famlies that can barely afford 4 tires, now they have to buy 4 more. I donno, at the worst, I forsee alot of cars in the dead of summer, running on snow tires haha.

If I recall, in ontario, the tires can be mud and snow rated (a good all-season) and your legal. I think that would be a start.

[rage2]

Originally posted by Alak
If I recall, in ontario, the tires can be mud and snow rated (a good all-season) and your legal. I think that would be a start.
That would change nothing here at all. 99% of the people run all seasons already in the winter.

[Axe]

For the record, I have winters on my car and all seasons on our SUV. My next set of tires will be Nokian WR G2's ( have the "snowflake" on sidwall but are classfified as all seasons).

Just like the perception that SUV's are "safer" b/c of the 4wd, for most, winter tires will just mean they think they can drive faster in snowy conditions.

- as a note, prior to the introduction of the rule in quebec 62% of accidents involved cars with L/T or Winter tires (based on 38% of accidents involving those with all season tires - I could not find more recent stats; if someone knows what they are that would be interesting....).

I don't agree that there will be sufficient supply if it becomes mandatory. They had ample notice and Quebec and it was still messed up....

[Masked Bandit]

Are you people daft? Good gawd I've never owned winter tires and I have no problems driving in the worst this city has to offer. If all this government intervention is so fabulous maybe you would find Quebec more to your liking. For the 17 days of REAL winter we get in this town, if you can't keep your shit on the road with decent all-seasons (not bald ass worn shit) then you have no business being on the road in the first place. Learn to drive. If you need extra help stopping / turning you're obviously A) not aware of your vehicles limitations in it's current state and B) driving too fast for road conditions.

What the hell do we need winter tires for during the years that I can ride my motorcycle into December? If you need winter tires because you normally run performace tires in the summer, that makes sense, but the the majority of regular private passenger vehicles out there, DECENT all-seasons are fine when used with some common sense!


/rant.

[Sugarphreak]

....

[Zewind]

I think this is just a scape goat for city to not have to look after cleaning the roads.

I drove on my old 91 honda accord for 5 years with all-seasons, no issues. I have winter's on my new car more to protect myself.


We're not like Quebec where winter's is 6 months of the year.

[Alak]

Originally posted by rage2

That would change nothing here at all. 99% of the people run all seasons already in the winter.

Not all - all season tires have the M+S (mud and snow) rating. I think alot of them dont if I recall. Alls Im saying is it might be a step in the right direction if instead of going straight for the severe snow tires, they can say, okay, you need tires that have the M+S rating at the minimum.

I think some of the problem, and the reason why they want to implement this, is the small majority of drivers that buy cars equipped with sporty summer tires, and dont change them in the winter. 4 wheel drive or not, the tire is the only thing touching the surface. I dont want to say its only that reason, because its not. Its just the first one that pops into my mind when I think about it.

[spikerS]

personally, while I think winter tires are a great idea, I don't think they are necessary. this question always comes up after a big dump of snow. In southern alberta, the snow never sticks around long enough. we get a dump of snow, and 4 or 5 days later, a chinook blows through, clears everything, and we are good for another few weeks again. rinse / repeat.

everyone is talking like "winter tires will save us all, repent for the end is nigh!" such bullshit. what really needs to change is calgary's drivers attitude towards driving in adverse conditions, and to drive according to conditions, unfortunately most people do not adjust their driving habits to match conditions, and drive like they normally would all year.

but you think the guys in the SUVs and trucks thinking that they are god and doing mach 1 because they have 4x4? just wait till you make them have to have winters on them, it will get worse.

[Fuji]

First off winter tires are awesome. I think most people should have them. Some people adjust thier drving to the conditions and can definitely get away with all seasons.

While it's not a bad idea. It's ridiculous this city spends all the cash grab money to collect more money from traffic violations (speed cameras, red light cameras, etc).

The alderman who had the "brains" more lacktherof than anything, should have really pointed the finger at himself and the city to clean the fugging roads like they should have (they actually knew in advance that the forecast was going to be heavy snowfall)!

It's another way to pass the blame on yet another issue with Calgary's inability to actually do a simple job they should be doing. (can't clean the streets properly, close down every road for building projects, infrastructure is horrible etc).

incentives for having winter tires through insurance companies is probably the best way to go IMO.

[Smartiepants]

I'd be all for it, personally I'm an advocate of winter tires, but that being said, you can adjust to winter conditions on A/S tires. There is no doubt in my mind that winters are better, but you can get the job done without them.

However, it's easier to make tires mandatory, compared to making common sense mandatory.

[Kg810]

+1 for mandatory winters

I'm sure everyone understands that driving is a privilege and not a right. With that being said, I feel it is completely fair and necessary for the government to step in and mandate this. I don't see how this is a big deal anyways because those with All Seasons right now can simply just use those for their summers.

I'm sure someone may point out that it's not fair for the government to tell them what they can and can't do with the cars but, it has always been like this and will continue to be like this. Yes, its our cars and we should have the freedom to do as we please (i.e. - cosmetic mods, engine mods, etc) but, I believe, the moment public safety is a concern, the government should be allowed to mandate something to allow for safer situations for everyone.

I'm all for the winter tires and I would like to see a mandatory winter driving course for everyone and continual license renewal examinations. I'd support anything to allow for safer drives around the city.

I understand that this issue is similar to speed limits. Speed limits are there to enforce safe speed limits for everyone to prevent as much accidents as possible but, there are speeders all the time and I will admit that I speed from time to time. Speeders get punished when being caught and those who abide by the speed limits and never get in trouble are rewarded with less insurance and never having to deal with cops/going to court/taking defensive driving courses to reduce demerits. So with this being said, I guess I wouldn't mind if insurance companies rewarded people who choose to go with winter tires by reducing their rates while increasing rates for those who decide to not get them.

[nobb]

As much as I would encourage people to get winter tires, I am skeptical that a mandatory law would decrease accidents significantly. I'd like to see some sort of study or atleast relevant statistics. The reason is analogous to people who drive way too fast for the conditions just because they have an SUV. Winter tires are not much different. Im not doubting the effectiveness of tires, but just look at all the idiots who think that having winter tires makes them immune to winter and are all smug about it (reminds me of the South Park episode with the Prius owners, lol).

A better way to go would be to outlaw summer tires in the winter and perhaps offer an insurance incentive for having winter tires.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[atgilchrist]

Originally posted by nobb
As much as I would encourage people to get winter tires, I am skeptical that a mandatory law would decrease accidents significantly. I'd like to see some sort of study or atleast relevant statistics. The reason is analogous to people who drive way too fast for the conditions just because they have an SUV. Winter tires are not much different. Im not doubting the effectiveness of tires, but just look at all the idiots who think that having winter tires makes them immune to winter and are all smug about it (reminds me of the South Park episode with the Prius owners, lol).

A better way to go would be to outlaw summer tires in the winter and perhaps offer an insurance incentive for having winter tires.


From the Quebec government website (http://www.mtq.gouv.qc.ca/portal/page/portal/grand_public_en/vehicules_promenade/securite_routiere/securite_conditions_hivernales/reglement_utilisation_pneus_hiver) :

Information collected in 2005 shows that 38% of the accidents that occur during the winter involve at least one vehicle that is equipped with all-season tires. These vehicles are strongly overrepresented in these accidents, as it is estimated that before 2008, 90% of passenger vehicles were driven with winter tires. In addition, the proportion of the occurrence of loss of control is even higher when the vehicles involved are equipped with all-season tires.

[tirebob]

Originally posted by Alak


Not all - all season tires have the M+S (mud and snow) rating. I think alot of them dont if I recall. Alls Im saying is it might be a step in the right direction if instead of going straight for the severe snow tires, they can say, okay, you need tires that have the M+S rating at the minimum.

I think some of the problem, and the reason why they want to implement this, is the small majority of drivers that buy cars equipped with sporty summer tires, and dont change them in the winter. 4 wheel drive or not, the tire is the only thing touching the surface. I dont want to say its only that reason, because its not. Its just the first one that pops into my mind when I think about it.

Every all season tire has an M&S or M+S rating. If it is not labeled as such it is considered summer only.

I am for the mandatory law, but I have to admit I am ever so "slightly" biased on the subject... Ha!

[heavyD]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak

There are also non-snow exclusive tires that will out-perform cheap snow tires.



What are they?

[Sugarphreak]

....

[Kg810]

Originally posted by atgilchrist



From the Quebec government website (http://www.mtq.gouv.qc.ca/portal/page/portal/grand_public_en/vehicules_promenade/securite_routiere/securite_conditions_hivernales/reglement_utilisation_pneus_hiver) :


Even if mandating the tires decreased that number by half, it should open the eyes of those who are using all seaons right now. I will continue to and always will fail to understand the reasoning of those who can afford to buy and store winter tires, yet refuse to do so.

[benyl]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


Given the choice I would easily take a premium set of all-seasons from Bridgestone, Toyo or Michelin over a crappy tire "motomaster" brand snow tire for icy conditions. Todays premium all seasons have better compounds often with the same silicas as snow tires to keep them pliable when temps drop into the minus.

Aren't there certain requirements for Winter tires to have the snowflake inside the mountain symbol? My guess would be that since a premium all-season doesn't have the symbol, even a cheap motormaster with the symbol will do better in winter time conditions.

For instance, in order for a tire to come with a Z rating for speed, it has be to able to endure that speed for a certain amount of time. Even the cheapest Z rated tires can safely go faster than a premium R rated tire.

Is my logic flawed here?

[94boosted]

Originally posted by bmeier
I think a better Idea would have the insurance companies give rate reductions if you have winter tires.

:werd: I think this is a great idea let those of us who are smart enough to realize the importance of winter tires have a discount in insurance premiums.


Originally posted by benyl


Aren't there certain requirements for Winter tires to have the snowflake inside the mountain symbol? My guess would be that since a premium all-season doesn't have the symbol, even a cheap motormaster with the symbol will do better in winter time conditions.

For instance, in order for a tire to come with a Z rating for speed, it has be to able to endure that speed for a certain amount of time. Even the cheapest Z rated tires can safely go faster than a premium R rated tire.

Is my logic flawed here?

I think your logic is correct but I must say my dad has a set of All Season Nokians on his old car I think he paid like $250 a corner for 16's and they drive better on snow and ice then some cars equiped with el-cheapo winters I've driven. :dunno:

[Sugarphreak]

...

[johnboy27]

Originally posted by Kg810


Even if mandating the tires decreased that number by half, it should open the eyes of those who are using all seaons right now. I will continue to and always will fail to understand the reasoning of those who can afford to buy and store winter tires, yet refuse to do so.
They have yet to release any finding from any studies in Quebec so it will be a while before we find out the differences. You should also take into account the difference in Quebecs winter over Calgary's. In Quebec snowfall is huge compared to Calgary, Calgary considers 10 cm a heavy snowfall warning. In quebec that is just a dusting. In Northern Quebec the temperatures can be much worse than Calgary also but with 20+ cm dumps at a time. Calgary winters are not bad. Personally I think making snowtires mandatory is bullshit. I run them but I know I could make it threw any Alberta winter with a good set of all season ( not racing slicks before you start that stupid argument again though).
I think if they are gonna start making snow tires mandatory why not start making all cars be inspected yearly and have all deficiency's taken care of instead of just the tire. Lets have every windshield in Alberta replaced yearly mo ,atter how few chips are in them, lets make every guy with a side dump or after axle dump exhaust replace those too as they are unsafe. Lets make all the guys with lowered cars raise them back up so their headlights are back up at the legal height as well as make all the lifted trucks get lowered again so they are legal height also. I bet you wouldn't jump on that band wagon so quick as your vehicle would probably fail a yearly "safety" inspection in any of the provinces that mandate them.

On the driving experience/knowledge/snowtires debate. Here is the definition of defensive driving as per the national safety council and no where in it does it mention snow tires. It does however say
"The standard Safe Practices for Motor Vehicle Operations, ANSI/ASSE Z15.1, defines defensive driving as "driving to save lives, time, and money, in spite of the conditions around you and the actions of others."[1] This definition is taken from the National Safety Council's Defensive Driving Course. It is a form of training for motor vehicle drivers that goes beyond mastery of the rules of the road and the basic mechanics of driving. Its aim is to reduce the risk of driving by anticipating dangerous situations, despite adverse conditions or the mistakes of others. This can be achieved through adherence to a variety of general rules, as well as the practice of specific driving techniques."

[Kg810]

Originally posted by johnboy27
I run them but I know I could make it threw any Alberta winter with a good set of all season ( not racing slicks before you start that stupid argument again though).
I think if they are gonna start making snow tires mandatory why not start making all cars be inspected yearly and have all deficiency's taken care of instead of just the tire. Lets have every windshield in Alberta replaced yearly mo ,atter how few chips are in them, lets make every guy with a side dump or after axle dump exhaust replace those too as they are unsafe. Lets make all the guys with lowered cars raise them back up so their headlights are back up at the legal height as well as make all the lifted trucks get lowered again so they are legal height also. I bet you wouldn't jump on that band wagon so quick as your vehicle would probably fail a yearly "safety" inspection in any of the provinces that mandate them.

Thanks for mentioning that totally out of context. It was not even an argument and has nothing to even do with this topic, which is to mandate winter tires. The race slicks was mentioned in regards to masoncgy stating that he believes tires mean nothing if you have skills. So I and a few others mentioned race slicks and I went ahead and offered to buy him race slicks for his chevy so he can live up to his bold words. Get things straight before you try to sound all cool okay?

Yes, because chipped windshields affect how a vehicle stops on snow/ice, right? Exhausts affects the ability of one's vehicle to stop, right? Nice points, really. We are talking tires here man....


Originally posted by johnboy27
On the driving experience/knowledge/snowtires debate. Here is the definition of defensive driving as per the national safety council and no where in it does it mention snow tires. It does however say
"The standard Safe Practices for Motor Vehicle Operations, ANSI/ASSE Z15.1, defines defensive driving as "driving to save lives, time, and money, in spite of the conditions around you and the actions of others."[1] This definition is taken from the National Safety Council's Defensive Driving Course. It is a form of training for motor vehicle drivers that goes beyond mastery of the rules of the road and the basic mechanics of driving. Its aim is to reduce the risk of driving by anticipating dangerous situations, despite adverse conditions[/B] or the mistakes of others. This can be achieved through adherence to a variety of general rules, as well as the practice of specific driving techniques[/B]."

Yay? You told us the definition of defensive driving? This is supposed to prove/represent what here? Because the definition doesn't include "winter tires" then winter tires are not needed? The fuck? Where does it say all seasons are needed? Why not use summer tires?

Get it through your head that we are only giving people a hard time on this forum that boldly state that their driving skills are beyond measure and that tires mean nothing because of those unmeasurable driving skills. Stop getting your panties in a bunch if you aren't like this. You said you use winter tires, so what's your problem here?

[Masked Bandit]

One angle of this that I don't think has been brought up yet is the real world NEED for snow tires in Calgary / Southern Alberta. It's obvious that snow tires work better than most all-seasons on snow & ice, but is it overkill in a city that has snow covered roads for a total of a couple weeks a year? It's a different story in places like Fort McMurray or even Edmonton, but too much in Calgary and Southern Alberta.

Is it reasonable to use an axe to cut string when scissors will do just fine? Sure it'll work, but it's not the most appropriate tool for the job. Just because there are a few people out there that can't get their fingers into a pair of scissors doesn't mean everyone should be forced to buy an axe.

[hampstor]

A serious business case needs to be done for this. Yes, that means the gov't will have to spend money to do a study and not some chicken shit study done by using google and people's opionions on a car forum.

You have to consider what the end goal is of such legislation. Is it to reduce injury accidents, reduce fatalities, or is it to reduce the # of fender benders?

Some of the questions i'd like answered are, over the last few weeks during the snowstorms (and in past snowstorms, maybe over the last decade):

- How many vehicle fatalities could be directly attributed to heavy snowfall?
- For accidents that are directly attributed to the snowfall, what types of tires were on the vehicles?
- How many injuries, were they major or minor?
- What was the dollar value of public property damage done?Private property?
- How much is the average Albertan going to have to fork out for tires?
- How much did the insurance companies lose in claims over this period?
- Who will benefit the most and at whose expense - Albertans, the province, insurance companies, small business?

I am always wary of such a broad legislation - who are the winners and who are the losers?

Before anyone jumps to any conclusions that im against this legislation or winter tires - I'm not against either. I just want to make sure that is is the BEST choice for everyone.

[Stuntmonkey]

The 500 odd accidents on the roads during the first snowfall in November could have been avoided to around 150 if people had snow tires.

I have them, and they are on my truck from around the start of october. Remember there doesn't have to be snow on the ground to feel the effects of winter tires. Soon as it gets below 2 degrees your normal tire is don't going to grip very well.

[Cos]

.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by Cos
I know this is an old bump but I wanted to mention something I noticed. I have been to a few places where winter tires are mandatory or really needed. Yes people in the winter have winter tires but I have noticed that no one changes them out in the summer. Lots of cars parked around town that have winter tires on in the summer and they dont look to be in that good of shape.

Not sure if the 'intent' of the law is being met.

And winter tires on hot pavement is almost as dangerous as summer tires on ice.

So I rather do this by law, it should follow under wrong equipment category. May to Oct, no Winters. Nov to Apr, all winters. Failing to do either = fine.

Or we should let insurance company enforce it. Accident without proper tires = at fault regardless you are or not.

[btimbit]

I'd agree with saying the best bet would be insurance discounts, or even what others said, at fault if you crash without proper tires.

Winter tires are amazing. Even cheap ones make a huge difference. Goodyear Nordics vastly out-performed any all season tires I've tried, which to be fair isn't many, but I'll never go another winter without them

[schocker]

Some insurers do give a discount for winter tires. At fault is a little far out though. If someone hits me and I don't have winter tires I would be at fault? I don't use them on my volvo because it is a pos and I have never had issues :dunno:
Least year I did use winters all summer to get rid of them and they were supper grippy in the dry but they did of course have less grip in the wet.

[MGCM]

Originally posted by Cos
I know this is an old bump but I wanted to mention something I noticed. I have been to a few places where winter tires are mandatory or really needed. Yes people in the winter have winter tires but I have noticed that no one changes them out in the summer. Lots of cars parked around town that have winter tires on in the summer and they dont look to be in that good of shape.

Not sure if the 'intent' of the law is being met.

Typical, most ppl who do that probably dont even realize how fast their tires must melt away........i agree, an amendment should be made.

[spacerz]

Originally posted by Xtrema
And winter tires on hot pavement is almost as dangerous as summer tires on ice.


That's not quite accurate. I chose to rock winters on my daily all year around. If you drive like a sane person, there are no dangers that I can think about...

[Offroad]

Ok I'll chime in here ....my winter beater of the last 2 years has the cheapo Canadian Tire Goodyear Nordics. The car is the fart cannoned Cavalier i bought off a Beyond member 7 years ago. I got those tires i think 4 years ago off i think a member of Jspeed or Jbody Alberta.com they had maybe 200 kilometers on them when he blew his motor. I used them in winter....awesome tires ...like driving a 4x4...i know i owned 2 killer 4x4 trucks. One summer (before it became the winter beater) I was lazy never took them off,drove thousands of k's on blazing pavement and back and forth to the Shuswap maybe 6 times. They handled as good as the $700 Goodyear triple treads that i had, and should have put back on that summer,...wet, dry,hot didn't matter and a few tranny killing burnouts( stupid Isuzu built tranny), and after that summer no noticeable wear. I know i was shocked too,so when the girlfriend was freaking driving in snow i highly recommended these tires. Her big lunky Chevy Astro van now was as solid as a 4x4 for 2 winters and again drove them in 2 blazing hot summers. Again no handling problems again lotsa BC trips and even towing and a few 8 hour Sask trips, and when we sold it last year tires still looked new and nowhere near tread wear indicators. Still see it driving around still on those winter Nordics around the neighborhood and the old fart cav sits in front of my neighbors house waiting for another lovely Calgary winter :poosie: but still gets a weekly drive to take the dog for a ride and fluids circulated....So winter tire technology has come a long way, i think they work well in all seasons if you don't have the $$$ for 2 sets. Now that's just my opinions and observations for the cheapo Nordics i can't say much about other brands, i just know what worked for me and 3 other people i got to buy them. Holy crap lotsa typing :facepalm:


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[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by MGCM


Typical, most ppl who do that probably dont even realize how fast their tires must melt away........i agree, an amendment should be made.

A co-worker has been driving year round on winters in his taco for 3 years now. There isn't as much wear as you would think. Stopping power isn't as good as summer tires, but it isn't bad either.

Id personally rather see someone rocking winter 365 days a year, then summers.

[FraserB]

Originally posted by Xtrema
Or we should let insurance company enforce it. Accident without proper tires = at fault regardless you are or not.

You seriously want an insurance company to decide what the definition of "proper tire" is? It will be "OEM tires with perfect tread", anything else gets either denied or prorated based on tread wear. Telling the insurance industry they can deny claims based on a factor that has no definition is a pretty bad idea.

Unless of course you feel that a proper tire should be defined as a tire of OEM size and type. Winter tires must meet same criteria but include the mountain/snowflake symbol.

But you have to realize then that the insurance company is going to put the onus on you to prove you had a proper tire at the time of the accident. How would you like to do that considering a good portion of the population can't tell you trim level or engine that their car has. Unless you mke it mandatory for police to attend every accident and record what size, kind of tire and tread depth of every tire of every car involved.

[HO2S]

I think that it a good law to have. The cheapest winter tire will always be better that the best all season in snow, people that say other wise have not have had winter tires.
I think that their needs to be a few more laws put in before winter tire laws. As a licensed mechanic I am not allowed to pull the plate off a dangerous vehicle. Their has been many times a car has left the parking lot of my shop that is a flat out danger to the public but the tires are good. Tires don't mean anything when you don't have brakes or a ball joint that is going to fall out.

[DEATH2000]

Originally posted by HO2S
As a licensed mechanic I am not allowed to pull the plate off a dangerous vehicle. Their has been many times a car has left the parking lot of my shop that is a flat out danger to the public but the tires are good. Thats pretty bad IMO. If a car is obviously not safe to be driven on the road you should have the right to pull the plate. The plates are property of the Alberta Givt and not the driver. I worry more about cars like that then a car with all seasons.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by DEATH2000
Thats pretty bad IMO. If a car is obviously not safe to be driven on the road you should have the right to pull the plate. The plates are property of the Alberta Givt and not the driver. I worry more about cars like that then a car with all seasons.

So you want your perfectly roadworthy car to be held for ransom by some skeevy mechanic, because he says "the struts are leaking and dangerous"?

No thanks. A reporting system would be better.

[FraserB]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok


So you want your perfectly roadworthy car to be held for ransom by some skeevy mechanic, because he says "the struts are leaking and dangerous"?

No thanks. A reporting system would be better.

This. I've been told twice my truck isn't legal/roadworthy just because some retard doesn't understand suspension properly. No way I want someone like that to have the power to remove plates and seize my vehicle.

[Khyron]

Winters in summer is just squishy and they wear out quick. Not a good "saving money" idea.

Cost of winters is no excuse since a set of AS or Sum and a set of winter will last more or less the same as 2 sets of AS.

Storage isn't really an excuse anymore with so many shops offering storage for the unused set.

Crappiest rated winter will stop faster than a top AS in -20C weather.

Snow has nothing to do with the tire choice. If the temps you are DRIVING in (early morning, late evening commute) are below 7C should be on Winters. Even if you never see a flake of snow.

And yes, you driving on shitty A/S tires (or worse, getting stuck on Summers) on Glenmore at 40k/hr in December affects me and everyone else around you. Don't be a douche use the right tool for the job.

[max_boost]

Originally posted by Khyron
Don't be a douche use the right tool for the job.

:thumbsup:

[know1edge]

Originally posted by HO2S
I think that it a good law to have. The cheapest winter tire will always be better that the best all season in snow, people that say other wise have not have had winter tires.

wrg2's

[schocker]

Originally posted by know1edge


wrg2's
That is what I have and they are pretty awesome year round.

[HO2S]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok


So you want your perfectly roadworthy car to be held for ransom by some skeevy mechanic, because he says "the struts are leaking and dangerous"?

No thanks. A reporting system would be better.
As long as its managed correctly and their is accountability this wont happen. Its happening with out of province licenses right now. Their are a few crooked techs, The government is cleaning out all of these people. They are loosing there opi licenses, journeyman licenses, and some have been thrown in jail.
Tech's in Ontario can pull plates, they don't have any problems and their system works good.
Its bad when brakes are metal to metal and the customer says im going to keep on driving it until I totally loose them.

[DEATH2000]

Originally posted by FraserB


This. I've been told twice my truck isn't legal/roadworthy just because some retard doesn't understand suspension properly. No way I want someone like that to have the power to remove plates and seize my vehicle. Why would you take your vehicle their then? Was this person a certified mechanic?