Power to Weight Ratio

[Stealth13]

I'll try and explain this the best I can.
Would a vehicle weighing 3000lb that has 200hp/torque run the quarter mile in the same time as a vehicle weighing 6000lb and having 400hp/torque if the following were met:
-Exactly the same aerodynamics
-Simulated enviroment, so same traction, etc
-driver does perfect runs for both vehicles

[Masked Bandit]

I'm going to guess the same but it's just that, a guess.

[Nismorphed]

What a stupid thread.
Assuming same powerband and everything....
i'd say 3000 lb due to less friction due to gravity!
/thread

[sr20s14zenki]

I believe its all relative, it takes a certain amount of power to accelerate a car in a certain amount of time. Theres an equation to figure what your car will run with a perfect RT, so, its all based on weight. They would both run the same i would think.......assuming gearing and every other variable matches.

[Darell_n]

Originally posted by Stealth13
Would a vehicle weighing 3000lb that has 200hp/torque run the quarter mile in the same time as a vehicle weighing 6000lb and having 400hp/torque if the following were met:
-Exactly the same aerodynamics
-Simulated enviroment, so same traction, etc
-driver does perfect runs for both vehicles

Mathematically, yes they would run the same time.

[Nismorphed]

Originally posted by Darell_n


Mathematically, yes they would run the same time.

Mathematically, no, they wouldn't.

[FiveFreshFish]

Way too many unspecified variables.

[Darell_n]

Originally posted by Nismorphed


Mathematically, no, they wouldn't.

Well I guess every online 1/4 mile calculator is wrong then. You better let them know.

[dj_rice]

Originally posted by Darell_n


Well I guess every online 1/4 mile calculator is wrong then. You better let them know.


I guess your an idiot, you better let your mom know :rolleyes:

[Nismorphed]

Originally posted by Darell_n


Well I guess every online 1/4 mile calculator is wrong then. You better let them know.
:rofl: Did you actually go to an online 1/4 mile calculator to try and solve this problem?? How embarrassing!

[rage2]

f = m * a
f / m = a
200 / 3000 = 400 / 6000

Mathematically speaking anyways...

[Darell_n]

Originally posted by rage2
f = m * a
f / m = a
200 / 3000 = 400 / 6000

Mathematically speaking anyways...

Exactly. I think a few people here dropped out too early.

[Abeo]

Originally posted by Nismorphed


Mathematically, no, they wouldn't.

Mathematically, the 6000 lb vehicle would run faster, due to having more area under the torque curve from the bigger engine :rolleyes:


Simulated enviroment, so same traction, etc


which means that you have 3 variables, as Rage pointed out

[rage2]

Originally posted by Abeo
Mathematically, the 6000 lb vehicle would run faster, due to having more area under the torque curve from the bigger engine :rolleyes:
Where the hell did you get torque curve from? And how do you know the 200hp car isn't a small V8 and the 400hp car isn't a high strung turbo, where the 200hp car has way more area under the torque curve? :rofl:

OP is assuming all variables is the same. It's a simulated hypothetical run.

[buh_buh]

Originally posted by Darell_n


Exactly. I think a few people here dropped out too early.
:rofl: that's ironic

[Nismorphed]

Originally posted by Darell_n


Exactly. I think a few people here dropped out too early.
Actually.... Considering he said same aerodynamics that means same friction due to air, but, more weight = more friction force from the tires (assuming a 6000 lb vehicle can have the same size tires as a 3000 lb one)

So lets see.... The normal force is Mass times the force of gravity.

Force of friction is the coefficient of friction (assumed to be the same again) times the normal force.

So... since the 6000lb vehicle has twice the force of friction compared to the 3000lb vehicle, I think this would make it ever so slightly slower.

1st year engineering! Guess you dropped out too early bud!

Oh and too the guy who said the 6000lb vehicle has a better torque curve? :nut: :rofl:

[Abeo]

Originally posted by rage2

Where the hell did you get torque curve from? And how do you know the 200hp car isn't a small V8 and the 400hp car isn't a high strung turbo, where the 200hp car has way more area under the torque curve? :rofl:

OP is assuming all variables is the same. It's a simulated hypothetical run.

I was being sarcastic, pulling variables out of my ass like nismorphed

[Darell_n]

Originally posted by Nismorphed

Actually.... Considering he said same aerodynamics that means same friction due to air, but, more weight = more friction force from the tires (assuming a 6000 lb vehicle can have the same size tires as a 3000 lb one)

So lets see.... The normal force is Mass times the force of gravity.

Force of friction is the coefficient of friction (assumed to be the same again) times the normal force.

So... since the 6000lb vehicle has twice the force of friction compared to the 3000lb vehicle, I think this would make it ever so slightly slower.

1st year engineering! Guess you dropped out too early bud!

Oh and too the guy who said the 6000lb vehicle has a better torque curve? :nut: :rofl:

Maybe they are train cars on steel wheels with maglev bearings. I can invent variables too. The original question was pretty simple.

[Nismorphed]

Originally posted by Darell_n


Maybe they are train cars on steel wheels with maglev bearings. I can invent variables too. The original question was pretty simple.

But I'm not inventing any variables... it's a pretty common one. It makes no sense that they would put frictionless bearings on a car, because they are assumed to be normal cars.

Normal cars still obey the laws of physics.

Is this too hard to grasp for you?

[Abeo]

Originally posted by Nismorphed

Actually.... Considering he said same aerodynamics that means same friction due to air, but, more weight = more friction force from the tires (assuming a 6000 lb vehicle can have the same size tires as a 3000 lb one)

So lets see.... The normal force is Mass times the force of gravity.

Force of friction is the coefficient of friction (assumed to be the same again) times the normal force.

So... since the 6000lb vehicle has twice the force of friction compared to the 3000lb vehicle, I think this would make it ever so slightly slower.

1st year engineering! Guess you dropped out too early bud!


Uh, you just gave the equation for tractive effort, I think what you meant was the tire's hysteresis, which is a little more involved than that. Of course, you gotta reach 4th year before you start learning that...

[Darell_n]

Originally posted by Nismorphed


But I'm not inventing any variables... it's a pretty common one. It makes no sense that they would put frictionless bearings on a car, because they are assumed to be normal cars.

Normal cars still obey the laws of physics.

Is this too hard to grasp for you?

I think rolling resistance is covered by etc. (simulated enviroment, so same traction, etc)

Anyway, this is now incredibly boring. Good night.:clap:

[Nismorphed]

Originally posted by Abeo


Uh, you just gave the equation for tractive effort, I think what you meant was the tire's hysteresis, which is a little more involved than that. Of course, you gotta reach 4th year before you start learning that...

Wrong. I am in 4th year. The formula I gave can be applied to anything as simple as a box being pulled. Nice try though.

[Abeo]

Originally posted by Nismorphed


Wrong. I am in 4th year. The formula I gave can be applied to anything as simple as a box being pulled. Nice try though.

If you were in 4th year, then you would know thats the formula for STATIC friction, dumbass. Even using the dynamic version, you are assuming a skidding tire.

[Supa Dexta]

The plane will fly!

[ExtraSlow]

Originally posted by dj_rice
I guess your an idiot, you better let your mom know :rolleyes: You're

Now this thread is complete!
And I agree, the plane will fly!

[Nismorphed]

Originally posted by Abeo


If you were in 4th year, then you would know thats the formula for STATIC friction, dumbass. Even using the dynamic version, you are assuming a skidding tire.
So once something has overcome static friction and is moving, there is no force against it? kinetic friction... nice one 'dumbass'

[Stealth13]

Nismorph why did you have to pm me nice thread dumbass it sure added to the site? It was a serious question, I
thought they would run the same, others didn't

[FraserB]

Obviously the car with winter tires will run faster:burnout:

[Stealth13]

Fraser the origional statement implied they both have the same traction

[RecoilS14]

Hey nismorphed. What's it like being an egotistical assmunch who puts down people because you are more "smart" than they are? Your like the douche nerd king. :thumbsdow:

it must be great to have brains but no real personality.

Props on being a fourth year engineering student tho. Don't forget to wear that ring proudly when you get it.

[A790]

What a useless fucking thread, wow.

[theslann]

Originally posted by RecoilS14
Hey nismorphed. What's it like being an egotistical assmunch who puts down people because you are more "smart" than they are? Your like the douche nerd king. :thumbsdow:

it must be great to have brains but no real personality.

Props on being a fourth year engineering student tho. Don't forget to wear that ring proudly when you get it.

:werd:
People like him are the reason ALL engineers get labelled as asshats. A select few morons ruining it for all.

[Mibz]

Fuck, -both- my jokes were taken already.

[Nismorphed]

Originally posted by RecoilS14
Hey nismorphed. What's it like being an egotistical assmunch who puts down people because you are more "smart" than they are? Your like the douche nerd king. :thumbsdow:

it must be great to have brains but no real personality.

Props on being a fourth year engineering student tho. Don't forget to wear that ring proudly when you get it.
Thanks man I appreciate the fact that you think I have great brains. I'm pretty sad that you don't like my personality though because I was really counting on making some e-friends in this thread. :cry:

[Nismorphed]

Originally posted by theslann


:werd:
People like him are the reason ALL engineers get labelled as asshats. A select few morons ruining it for all.
If you read the thread in proper order you would notice I didn't put anyone down until they first struck out at me. Give it another try!

[Eleanor]

Originally posted by Nismorphed
So once something has overcome static friction and is moving, there is no force against it? kinetic friction... nice one 'dumbass' :rofl: Might want to go back to class, as long as you have traction on a tire, you're calculating static friction, not kinetic :nut:

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by Supa Dexta
The plane will fly!

No it won't.


:D

[KRyn]

Originally posted by Masked Bandit


No it won't.


:D


Prove it!

;)

[racerv]

The lighter car would have an advantage off the line. If we are assuming the same tires for both cars that is. Real tires still follow F=uN, except u is a function of many variables, one of them is the normal force, N. The coefficient of friction decreases with increasing load (force still increases but at a slower rate the more you load up the tire). This means the lighter car will have a higher coefficient of friction compared to the heaver car (due to load sensitivity) and can take off the line a little faster.

The heavy car actually has an adventage in the aerodynamics department. The OP said same coefficient of drag for both cars meaning same drag force. Since the heavy car has more power the drag force is less significant.
Consider this: drop a pice of paper (8"x11") then drop a stack of paper. They both have the same drag force (same size) but the stack of paper will fall faster because its much heaver and the drag force is less significant.

Given these 2 i think the heaver car would be faster due to aerodynamics.

[BrknFngrs]

Originally posted by Supa Dexta
The plane will fly!

Nope, no air is moving across the wings

[Hakkola]

Originally posted by BrknFngrs


Nope, no air is moving across the wings

I hope you're joking, the plane moves forward on a treadmill or any surface, it is powered by thrust, not an engine turning the wheels. With your logic a boat plane can't move.

[ercchry]

Originally posted by Hakkola


I hope you're joking, the plane moves forward on a treadmill or any surface, it is powered by thrust, not an engine turning the wheels. With your logic a boat plane can't move.

a float plane would not be the same as a plane on a treadmill since the water is not constantly trying to pull the plane back to where it started like what would happen on a treadmill

[BrknFngrs]

Originally posted by Hakkola


I hope you're joking, the plane moves forward on a treadmill or any surface, it is powered by thrust, not an engine turning the wheels. With your logic a boat plane can't move.

:D

[theslann]

Originally posted by Nismorphed

If you read the thread in proper order you would notice I didn't put anyone down until they first struck out at me. Give it another try!

Dear Mr. 4th year engineer,

With that kind of attitude, you're going to be a beloved individual within whatever industry is fortunate enough to hire you. This I can guarantee.

As an engineer, it is our job to solve problems and bridge gaps, not create them. Enjoy your egotistical power trip while you can.

[89s1]

Originally posted by ercchry


a float plane would not be the same as a plane on a treadmill since the water is not constantly trying to pull the plane back to where it started like what would happen on a treadmill

So, are you saying a plane wouldn't take off on a treadmill?

Do tell.

[racerv]

Originally posted by theslann


Dear Mr. 4th year engineer,

With that kind of attitude, you're going to be a beloved individual within whatever industry is fortunate enough to hire you. This I can guarantee.

As an engineer, it is our job to solve problems and bridge gaps, not create them. Enjoy your egotistical power trip while you can.

Just curious, are you a UofS grad? Im from saskatoon too.

[Nismorphed]

Originally posted by theslann


Dear Mr. 4th year engineer,

With that kind of attitude, you're going to be a beloved individual within whatever industry is fortunate enough to hire you. This I can guarantee.

As an engineer, it is our job to solve problems and bridge gaps, not create them. Enjoy your egotistical power trip while you can.
Dear Mr. High and Mighty,

I'm glad you can be my moral compass on beyond. Congratulations on bridging internet gaps. Im so glad that inbetween smelling your own farts because you are so perfect that you find the time to teach me how to interact on the forums.

All i did was defend what I've said after I tried to present a logical explanation to a problem? I never called anyone names first, just responded :)

[ercchry]

Originally posted by 89s1


So, are you saying a plane wouldn't take off on a treadmill?

Do tell.

just said that its not the same as a float plane on water.... but from that episode of mythbusters... i dont think it was a conclusive test... can not remember though... dunno if i watched the whole thing :dunno:

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by 89s1


So, are you saying a plane wouldn't take off on a treadmill?

Do tell.

A floatplane on a treadmill won't take off :D

(unless it's the type of floats with wheels)

To the OP, ALL else being equal, yes they will run the same.
In reality, the lighter car will beat the heavier one but not by
a whole lot

[theslann]

Originally posted by Nismorphed

Dear Mr. High and Mighty,

I'm glad you can be my moral compass on beyond. Congratulations on bridging internet gaps. Im so glad that inbetween smelling your own farts because you are so perfect that you find the time to teach me how to interact on the forums.

All i did was defend what I've said after I tried to present a logical explanation to a problem? I never called anyone names first, just responded :)

At no point did I state that you should not be defending your opinion. However, the methodology behind your statements of defense is somewhat questionable and you seem to be hard-pressed to understand what people here, including myself, are pointing out.

[Nismorphed]

Originally posted by theslann


At no point did I state that you should not be defending your opinion. However, the methodology behind your statements of defense is somewhat questionable and you seem to be hard-pressed to understand what people here, including myself, are pointing out.

Point taken. I still think the smaller car will win! :burnout:

[89s1]

Originally posted by ercchry


just said that its not the same as a float plane on water.... but from that episode of mythbusters... i dont think it was a conclusive test... can not remember though... dunno if i watched the whole thing :dunno:

I don't need an episode of some tv show to tell me a plane will indeed take off on a conveyor belt.

I taught propulsion and principles of flight to classrooms full of air cadets. You can rest assured it will take off.

[theslann]

Originally posted by Nismorphed


Point taken. I still think the smaller car will win! :burnout:

:thumbsup:

[89s1]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok


A floatplane on a treadmill won't take off :D

(unless it's the type of floats with wheels)


lol :thumbsup:

[bspot]

-46 in Edmonton last weekend.

So there is no global warming!

[Sebasshole]

Airplane will take off.
But your gona need a fucking crazy treadmill.

[scat19]

I do not want a dirty dog touching me.

[RecoilS14]

Fuck the treadmill use a crazy carpet on a big hill

[ExtraSlow]

This thread went exactly where it needed to go.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by scat19
I do not want a dirty dog touching me.

Fine, we'll start training mountain lions.

That's right mutherfuckers, you'd better be shitting bricks if you've been anywhere near explosives.

The dogs won't take flight on a treadmill, the mountain lions will though.

[Stealth13]

Originally posted by Nismorphed

Dear Mr. High and Mighty,

I'm glad you can be my moral compass on beyond. Congratulations on bridging internet gaps. Im so glad that inbetween smelling your own farts because you are so perfect that you find the time to teach me how to interact on the forums.

All i did was defend what I've said after I tried to present a logical explanation to a problem? I never called anyone names first, just responded :)

So first you pm me about being a dumbass for making a thread that is a great improvement to this site, now your putting down many people in this forum?? :dunno:

[Mibz]

Steve French is comin' right for us!

[89s1]

Originally posted by Mibz
Steve French is comin' right for us!

http://i3.ebayimg.com/06/i/001/45/3a/c755_35.JPG

[FraserB]

I petition that we move all of the e-thug pissing contests to this thread. We would have a great lineup.

TDFTW vs. Jlude

Scat19 vs. Isaiah

Nismorphed vs. the slann

Masoncgy vs. most of the people in the winter tire threads

[racerv]

Originally posted by Stealth13


So first you pm me about being a dumbass for making a thread that is a great improvement to this site, now your putting down many people in this forum?? :dunno:

He also sent me an “unpleasant” pm too wanting me to edit my post, just because I did not agree with his point of view.
Dear Nismorphed,
Just because you are a smart big shot engineer does not mean you can belittle the users on this message forum. Please stop sending me pms and do the message board a favour and stop posting.

[Stealth13]

Originally posted by FraserB
I petition that we move all of the e-thug pissing contests to this thread. We would have a great lineup.

TDFTW vs. Jlude

Scat19 vs. Isaiah

Nismorphed vs. the slann

Masoncgy vs. most of the people in the winter tire threads
:rofl: :rofl:

[Mibz]

Originally posted by FraserB
TDFTW vs. Employment

Scat19 vs. Visibility

Nismorphed vs. His Head

Masoncgy vs. Science Fixed

[89s1]

Originally posted by Mibz
Fixed

:rofl: :rofl:

[theslann]

Originally posted by Mibz
Fixed

:rofl:

[Nismorphed]

:rofl:

[msommers]

Originally posted by Mibz
Fixed
:rofl: :rofl:

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok


Fine, we'll start training mountain lions.

That's right mutherfuckers, you'd better be shitting bricks if you've been anywhere near explosives.

The dogs won't take flight on a treadmill, the mountain lions will though.

Only if the mountain lions have winter tires.

[Stealth13]

Well mountain lions are awd so wouldn't need winters to fly, all seasons would suffice

[Mibz]

I think if we separated Thread of the Year 2009 into separate categories, this one would solidly win "Funniest".

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by Stealth13
Well mountain lions are awd so wouldn't need winters to fly, all seasons would suffice

Touche!

Now what if the mountain lion was twice the weight of the dogs but also twice as strong? Would Sean Banerjee still try to steal my winter tires?

[bituerbo]

http://www.beloblog.com/KGW_Blogs/travel/archives/Cessna%20210.jpg

+

http://www.csfitnessequipment.com/images/sports_art_e80_elliptical.jpg

=

http://www.icis.com/blogs/asian-chemical-connections/confused.jpg

[Stealth13]

Originally posted by Masked Bandit


Touche!

Now what if the mountain lion was twice the weight of the dogs but also twice as strong? Would Sean Banerjee still try to steal my winter tires?
it depends if he had twice the cash to buy twice the ammount of steaks to bribe the awd mountain lion

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by Stealth13

it depends if he had twice the cash to buy twice the ammount of steaks to bribe the awd mountain lion

He doesn't have any cash though, he'd put the steaks on credit, then the butcher would have to start a Beyond "ripped off" thread.

[Freeskier]

Bahaha so much awesome in this thread:rofl:

[Masked Bandit]

Would the butcher "govern himself accordingly"? I don't think I would want to get on the bad side of a guy with that many sharp knives and is friends with the AWD mountain lion community!

[methodicreign]

:nut: MATT DAMON!!!!

[bituerbo]

:nut: Gary Busey!!! (http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/5018/busey.jpg)

[Stealth13]

What does Gary have to do with awd mountain lions?

[XylathaneGTR]

What the hell is happening here?

[traviswithaG]

I am never leaving beyond again....

Also the heavier one always wins becuase i am a supra fan boy :)

[psycoticclown]

Originally posted by Masked Bandit
Would the butcher "govern himself accordingly"? I don't think I would want to get on the bad side of a guy with that many sharp knives and is friends with the AWD mountain lion community!

Yes, but he would break out the feather duster.

[ianmcc]

Mathematically, the formula is:


ET = (weight/hp)^0.2574 x 7.3571

And that 3000/200 is the same as 6000/400 (both answers are 15), so that variable is the same, resulting in the same answer.
(Link to the LRT formulas-http://www.stealth316.com/2-calc-hp-et-mph.htm)

[Stealth13]

Originally posted by ianmcc
Mathematically, the formula is:


ET = (weight/hp)^0.2574 x 7.3571

And that 3000/200 is the same as 6000/400 (both answers are 15), so that variable is the same, resulting in the same answer.
(Link to the LRT formulas-http://www.stealth316.com/2-calc-hp-et-mph.htm)
word, thats the one i voted for

[V8 LOL]

I think both would run the same

[Mibz]

Holy shit, fantastic necromancing. I totally forgot about this thread and the gems hidden within it.

[V8 LOL]

Originally posted by Mibz
Holy shit, fantastic necromancing. I totally forgot about this thread and the gems hidden within it. yeah, page 4 is FILLED with win