Ticket for crashing with no winter tires

[urban.one]

'Fine' idea heads to council
By MICHAEL PLATT

Last Updated: 23rd December 2009, 4:57am

Snowy conditions like those seen here on Memorial Dr. are far from uncommon on city roads, and Ald. Diane Colley-Urquhart says Calgarians should drive carefully or pay a price. (Mike Drew, Sun) Achtung, baby.

The streets of Calgary, already peppered with Bavarian cars, may soon be getting a taste of Germanic law, as one alderman tries to regulate more responsible winter driving.

"I believe this is a far better approach," said Ald. Diane Colley-Urquhart, of her decision to stall on a motion for mandatory winter tires, in favour of a German-style law for Calgary drivers.

In the land of BMWs, Volkswagens and Mercedes, the polizei can fine you for having the wrong tires, if you lose control.

Cause a crash or clog traffic, and police will examine your tires -- if they aren't winter treads, you'll be fined around $70, if the German formula is followed.

Of course, it's one thing to admire a German law and another thing to convince Alberta lawmakers to copy the Teutonic example.

But Colley-Urquhart will try -- she's bringing the idea to the Calgary Police Commission and city council, to determine how to make it work here.

She wants Calgary drivers to share the burden when it comes to keeping traffic moving in the winter months, and Colley-Urquhart believes bad driving on sub-par tires is as much to blame as a paltry snow budget. It's hard to argue, when a single compact car can turn Deerfoot into a walking-pace procession of frustrated motorists.

It was just after 9 a.m. yesterday when a red hatchback landed in the ditch just north of 16th Ave., requiring fire trucks, tow trucks and police to clear the crash scene.

Meanwhile, thousands of motorists -- workers, shoppers, truckers and so on -- inched pass, their time wasted.

The road, so often blamed, was as plowed and groomed as a Calgary freeway gets during a mid-December deep freeze.

Perfect road conditions, relatively speaking, yet the driver of the red car somehow lost control, spun around, and then ended up in the ditch, impacting thousands of people in the process.

And that, in one annoying example, explains why Colley-Urquhart won't abandon her belief that motorists need to take more responsibility. Instead of compulsory tires, she wants fines.

That's good news for those who were nervous about mandatory snow treads and a possible tab in the range of $800 for four winter tires.

Colley-Urquhart is no longer convinced provincial tire regulation is the answer.

She says the loud outcry over her upcoming motion to make winter tires the law in Alberta has convinced her that forcing people is not the way to go.

"With the feedback to this point, I'm leaning toward filing (the motion)," said Colley-Urquhart.

She drafted the motion after a blizzard of complaints reached the city, with angry drivers blaming a tight-fisted city council for skimping on snow clearing and causing mayhem on the streets.

Pouring millions more into the snow-clearing budget may help, but Colley-Urquhart said drivers must shoulder some responsibility, and that should include proper tires for the conditions.

Now, she's changed her mind, but not about motorists taking more responsibility.

Inspired by an editorial penned by this scribe on Sunday, Colley-Urquhart has asked Calgary Police Chief Rick Hanson and city Transportation boss John Hubbell to study the German law.

That country passed its winter driving rule in 2006, after considering a mandatory snow tire law like Sweden and Finland.

Just like Calgary last week, there was an outcry from German motorists unhappy about the expense, despite well-documented tests showing snow tires improve traction, braking and cornering.

So, Germany left the decision up to the driver, with a warning -- or achtung, as it were.

Choose all-season tires, and you choose to drive carefully -- because if you get stuck, there's a fine of about $35. Cause a traffic snarl, like the little red compact in the Deerfoot ditch yesterday, and the fine doubles.

Colley-Urquhart thinks the German model for winter motoring leaves the decision on tires up to the driver, while encouraging safer, more sensible winter driving.

"Everyone has to do their part -- drive safely and have proper equipment for road conditions," said Colley-Urquhart.

[email protected]

[Proyecto2000]

good idea :thumbsup:

[scat19]

Similar to a couple beyonders in that they will not push someone elses car if they don't have winters on. Haha.

[spike98]

As a whole i dont run winters due to the fact that i am cheap and drive for the conditions. However, i think this is a fantastic idea!

I think it only should be inforced if in fact does cause an accident or hold up in traffic. It would be stupid to ticket good drivers that dont get into accidents simply for the type of tire.

[GQBalla]

great idea

[Sugarphreak]

...

[hampstor]

Now take it to the next level and add tax incentives or insurance incentives to running winter tires... and this will be a perfect !!.

[2002civic]

please do this!!!!! but 70 isn't very steep so I would suggest upping that a bit...

[Impreza]

Originally posted by hampstor
Now take it to the next level and add tax incentives or insurance incentives to running winter tires... and this will be a perfect !!.

Agreed, making it much more affordable to get winter tires and just making the roads safer for everyone.

[Masked Bandit]

Hey, I have an idea...why don't we just get the government to hold our peckers while we pee too!

Accidents happen when people operate their vehicles beyond it's capabililty for the road conditions. The people that drive too fast with regular tires are still going to drive too fast with winters. They'll just crash at higher speeds now.

[2Valve0]

This is a smart alderman doing something for once.
I hate traffic in the winter because some dumb people are bad drivers and refuse to put winters on.

When your sitting in a traffic jam for 20 mintues because them they should have to pay for your time wasted and the emergency vehicles that come; $70 is not enough triple that and people will be forced to buy winters

[SOAB]

so what happens if the one with all-season tires on isn't at fault in the accident? is it automatically their fault?

you people really want more laws and regulations? the government already has enough "protect the people from themselves" laws. we don't need any more...

[HondaKid]

Drivers without the proper tires for the conditions, which means 7C or below are simply being cheap and careless towards others on public roads. One wonders if these same careless drivers also are also all for texting and cell phone use while driving?

The law ought to read, no winter tires, no insurance.

[lilmira]

Originally posted by Masked Bandit
Hey, I have an idea...why don't we just get the government to hold our peckers while we pee too!

Accidents happen when people operate their vehicles beyond it's capabililty for the road conditions. The people that drive too fast with regular tires are still going to drive too fast with winters. They'll just crash at higher speeds now.

It will happen the day when people fail to control their own stream. With the growing population of the new species homo idiot sapiens, it may happen sooner than you think.

[D. Dub]

Originally posted by hampstor
Now take it to the next level and add tax incentives or insurance incentives to running winter tires... and this will be a perfect !!.

Perfect :thumbsup:

[spike98]

Im surprised no one has said "How about we get some real plows and start plowing properly instead of this shit."

Or is it just too early in the day. Im sure someone will not read the body of the thread and reply that soon...

[picmerollin]

this is forward thinking.

[rage2]

Originally posted by Masked Bandit
Accidents happen when people operate their vehicles beyond it's capabililty for the road conditions. The people that drive too fast with regular tires are still going to drive too fast with winters. They'll just crash at higher speeds now.
It's not just about accidents. It's about keeping traffic MOVING in the winters, which is why I'm all for this and mandatory winter tires.


Cause a crash or clog traffic, and police will examine your tires -- if they aren't winter treads, you'll be fined around $70, if the German formula is followed.

Of course, it's one thing to admire a German law and another thing to convince Alberta lawmakers to copy the Teutonic example.

But Colley-Urquhart will try -- she's bringing the idea to the Calgary Police Commission and city council, to determine how to make it work here.

She wants Calgary drivers to share the burden when it comes to keeping traffic moving in the winter months, and Colley-Urquhart believes bad driving on sub-par tires is as much to blame as a paltry snow budget. It's hard to argue, when a single compact car can turn Deerfoot into a walking-pace procession of frustrated motorists.
I'm surprised the global warming folks aren't all over this. We use over twice as much fuel and double the emissions when we're stuck in traffic. :rofl:


Originally posted by Sugarphreak
How exactly can you fine somebody for not having winter tires if it isn't a bylaw :rolleyes:

Officer: "Yes you are right, it is not illegal... here is your ticket"


Also what tires are going to fall into this catagory; summer tires? All-Seasons? What about M/T, A/T, and those geared more for snow with the M+S rating?
They'll probably add a new section in the Highway Traffic Act that deals with tires. Surprisingly (and someone please correct me if I'm wrong), there are no regulations on tires in the HTA right now. No minimum tread depth requirements, nothing. You can run on a bare rim with no tire on it, and there's no "law" where you can get a ticket.

[whiskas]

Originally posted by rage2
You can run on a bare rim with no tire on it, and there's no "law" where you can get a ticket.

They would probably get you on stunting or careless driving.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[frozenrice]

Watch all the people with all seasons driving 30km/hr everywhere just to avoid crashing.............

[msommers]

Great idea. $70 bucks though? Make it something substantial like $500 dollars.

[max_boost]

Originally posted by Masked Bandit
Hey, I have an idea...why don't we just get the government to hold our peckers while we pee too!

Accidents happen when people operate their vehicles beyond it's capabililty for the road conditions. The people that drive too fast with regular tires are still going to drive too fast with winters. They'll just crash at higher speeds now.

haha if you say so man.

Even when the temperature was hovering around 0 with snow on the ground, i figured I could use my dad's Tribeca AWD on all seasons for a few deliveries, yeah I could get around but nowhere near the efficiency as my WRX with winters. I could accelerate faster, brake faster, just everything about the winter tires made the car so much easier to drive.

I'm sick of the argument, yeah you can get by with all seasons if you watch your distance, drive more alert etc. but fact is, combine that with the winter tires and it'll be even better. WOW.

[Tik-Tok]

I'm all for mandatory provincially legislated winter tires law.

I am NOT for the greedy ass city council fining people who don't have them.

They are just deflecting once again, over the issue that THEY CAN'T/WON'T PROPERLY PLOW OUR STREETS. As if they need another excuse (ie. more income from people who don't have winters, so why bother plowing?)

[max_boost]

Originally posted by rage2

It's not just about accidents. It's about keeping traffic MOVING in the winters, which is why I'm all for this and mandatory winter tires.



Yeah man. Behind someone at a red light? I know it's only a few extra seconds but when it goes green it feels like forever when they can't get traction.

Behind someone braking for a red light? The all season guys brake soooo far in advanced, tapping their brakes and shit. :rofl:

Behind someone in regular traffic, there are huge fucking gaps it's retarded. i find myself changing lanes and cutting everyone off. yeah i'm an asshole!!!

Or maybe it's just a coincidence that none of them can drive! at least not as good as the all season advocates on beyond! So since >half the city can't drive, get winters! LOL

[msommers]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok
I'm all for mandatory provincially legislated winter tires law.

I am NOT for the greedy ass city council fining people who don't have them.

They are just deflecting once again, over the issue that THEY CAN'T/WON'T PROPERLY PLOW OUR STREETS. As if they need another excuse (ie. more income from people who don't have winters, so why bother plowing?)

I agree with you that the plowing could have been done more efficiently. At the same time, our alley wasn't plowed for quite some time and I never had a problem getting anywhere. Now, I didn't have 7' drifts either but still, how often does that happen? Drivers need to be trained better for winter, period. Winter tires aside, some drivers don't even understand the simple physics of getting up slippery hills, and going down them for that matter (ie: don't fucking brake the whole way down an icy hill!).

I've lived in Calgary for my whole life and this is the first year I can recall where them not plowing has resulted in people not being able to go anywhere.

Yes the city could do things better, that much is obvious. However Calgary is very hard to predict with respect to weather, and some of the burden is going to lie on the residents that live there not to have their hand held when the inevitable 'shit happens' scenario occurs. For example, the snow storm that hit during rush hour. There would have been a lot less accidents that day if people had winters tires AND knew how to properly drive in winter.

[89s1]

As long as responsible drivers running all seasons don't get fined when some douche on winters texting on their phone spins out and crashes into them.

[msommers]

LOL Dude you make it sound like all season drivers are saints and winter tire drivers are ass hats. Don't forget, douchebaggery isn't seasonal! Also, I think it was a given this would only be ticketed if you're at fault.

[SOAB]

never assume anything.

it's like people assuming that because they need winter tires to get around, everyone should have to buy them too. :poosie:

[Masked Bandit]

The more I think about this bylaw, I'm starting to like it. I'll continue to run my regular truck tires without having any control problems and everyone who can't drive can stimulate the economy by buying winter tires. This works out much better than madatory winters.



On a serious note though, can you even buy winter tires for a full size truck?

[max_boost]

Originally posted by SOAB
never assume anything.

it's like people assuming that because they need winter tires to get around, everyone should have to buy them too. :poosie:

Not need, just 'prefer' haha

Not everyone, just most people. :burnout:

[FraserB]

Im fine with this as long as they make the fines apply to people with winters as well. Get stuck on your winter tires you pay the same fine, go off the road pay the fine.

They need to change the wording so that anyone who delays traffic or causes an accident that delays traffic gets the ticket.

[FraserB]

On a serious note though, can you even buy winter tires for a full size truck? [/B]

Yes, you can. I have some numbers in the other thread and it came out to a one time cost of about $1800+$300/year after that or an one time cost of $1900 and storing your new tires and rims.

[GoChris]

Originally posted by msommers
Great idea. $70 bucks though? Make it something substantial like $500 dollars.

That's pretty fucking stupid. If you make it so expensive, they won't have any money left to actually get winter tires.

A small fine in this instance is good, nice wake up to go get some winter tires because it's cheaper than multiple tickets.

[alloroc]

Originally posted by GoChris


That's pretty fucking stupid. If you make it so expensive, they won't have any money left to actually get winter tires.

A small fine in this instance is good, nice wake up to go get some winter tires because it's cheaper than multiple tickets.

Get winters first then you won't have to worry about the fine.

The fine should be double the cost of what it would be to buy a set of winters + rims otherwise people will not change over and 'risk the fine' because it is cheaper.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by msommers


Yes the city could do things better, that much is obvious. However Calgary is very hard to predict with respect to weather, and some of the burden is going to lie on the residents that live there not to have their hand held when the inevitable 'shit happens' scenario occurs. For example, the snow storm that hit during rush hour. There would have been a lot less accidents that day if people had winters tires AND knew how to properly drive in winter.

Snap storms can't be avoided, no. But it took them 2 weeks to clear that shit up. Also they don't "do" residential streets.

The bottom of my street is a fairly steep grade, with a T intersection at the bottom, the through road of the T is fairly busy, and the street is always shear ice. They'll come and sand the thing once a week, but REFUSE to plow the damned road, which would alleviate them having to come back and sand every week.

Then, god forbid if someone doesn't phone and complain one week, they WONT even sand it, and then it's a disaster area. I've had to go up on the curb just to stop from entering the intersection and hitting someone.

This is a yearly occurrence, not just this years problem.

[Sugarphreak]

....

[b-king]

I think they should stop looking for cash grab and clean the roads right away,i never have lived in a city that does not clean side streets.The fire truck didnt save 4 houses due to it could not get up the hill on a side street.You can put winter tires on what ever you like and too much snow is too much .The city should be also as responsable as us.You cant drive on a road if you cant move for 1ft of snow. The ice,they dont do enough .We pay as much tax as any other place.They buy stupid stuff like a hummer for the police,take that money and do somthing else.They dont even use it .

[g-m]

Originally posted by GoChris


That's pretty fucking stupid. If you make it so expensive, they won't have any money left to actually get winter tires.

A small fine in this instance is good, nice wake up to go get some winter tires because it's cheaper than multiple tickets.

you're stupid. And can't do math apparently. What incentive is there to get winter tires when you can receive approximately 11.5 tickets before its economically profitable to get winter tires???

I agree with the fine being double the cost of the winter tires. $70? give me a fucking break. People spend more than that at lunch.

[FraserB]

So the argument is that I should get a $4000 fine if I drop my tires into a culvert trying to drag out some fool with winters who thought it meant he could drive through 3ft of snow? How would you enforce this for a lot of people, the places where people like me will be getting stuck, the cops cant even get to.

The only way to get this to work is to fine ANYONE who goes off the road or holds up traffic. Or is it your claim that having winters doesn't make you spin out or able to climb any hill in this city after ice and snow? basically what this will turn into is a license for people to keep driving like idiots but justify it and get away with it simply because they put winters on.

Lets say there are two cars, one with all-seasons and one with winters. Both spin out and end up blocking the road because of black ice. Why should the guy with all-season get a ticket and the one with winters not get one? Remember the fines are about holding up traffic and going off the road in bad conditions.

[chkolny541]

Originally posted by Masked Bandit
Hey, I have an idea...why don't we just get the government to hold our peckers while we pee too!

Accidents happen when people operate their vehicles beyond it's capabililty for the road conditions. The people that drive too fast with regular tires are still going to drive too fast with winters. They'll just crash at higher speeds now.

[msommers]

Originally posted by FraserB
Lets say there are two cars, one with all-seasons and one with winters. Both spin out and end up blocking the road because of black ice. Why should the guy with all-season get a ticket and the one with winters not get one? Remember the fines are about holding up traffic and going off the road in bad conditions.

Given the vehicle and driver skill is the same, the chances are significantly decreased of that happening to a winter tire'd vehicle than one with all seasons. I thought that much would be obvious.

Is it just me, or is there some holier than thou attitude by a big chunk of the all season tire drivers on here? How the fuck are the people with winter tires all the sudden pompous douchebags who drive like jackasses all the time?!

[89s1]

Originally posted by msommers
LOL Dude you make it sound like all season drivers are saints and winter tire drivers are ass hats. Don't forget, douchebaggery isn't seasonal! Also, I think it was a given this would only be ticketed if you're at fault.

How you interpret a statement is no fault of mine. :dunno:

[94boosted]

I would make this a Fix-It Ticket. Whatever it may be $70 (should be more) and then if they get winter tires purchased within X Buisness Days of the ticket being issued they can get the ticket waived that would actually encourage people to get new tires. :dunno:

[sillysod]

I like the idea of if you cause a problem with all seasons you get fined.

I don't think mandatory winter tires should be required. There are lots of us that have cars with winters that they drive in the winter, and summer cars.

When it's nice out in January I like to take my summer car out. i think it is retarded to have to buy winter tires for my summer car if the roads are clear and I decide to take it out in the middle of winter.

[kevie88]

Originally posted by 94boosted
I would make this a Fix-It Ticket. Whatever it may be $70 (should be more) and then if they get winter tires purchased within X Buisness Days of the ticket being issued they can get the ticket waived that would actually encourage people to get new tires. :dunno:


I like this A LOT. But the fine should be minimum $800, then the tires will seem cheap as shit.

[syb65]

this is retarded. now all the normal bad drivers will think they are 10 times better drivers now with winter tires causing 10 times the accidents. Case in point, we get no where. clean the streets more often. God, i would even pay pst if they clean our streets, alleys, and sidewalks everytime it snows considering 3/4 of our season is winter.

[89s1]

Originally posted by syb65
this is retarded. now all the normal bad drivers will think they are 10 times better drivers now with winter tires causing 10 times the accidents. Case in point, we get no where. clean the streets more often. God, i would even pay pst if they clean our streets, alleys, and sidewalks everytime it snows considering 3/4 of our season is winter.

Makes me feel a bit better to know the Edmonton city council relies on chinooks just as much as Calgary, since Edmonton isn't known to even get chinooks :rofl:

[racerocco]

Originally posted by msommers

Is it just me, or is there some holier than thou attitude by a big chunk of the all season tire drivers on here? How the fuck are the people with winter tires all the sudden pompous douchebags who drive like jackasses all the time?!


I think the reason people with all seasons think those of us with winters are "pompous douchebags who drive like jackasses all the time", is quite simply they have no comprehension of how much more grip and control real winters allow.
I can't count how many times I've watched poorly equipped cars slide past me at a stop, or slide wide in the same corner I just took, even though they are traveling at two thirds my speed. It has come to a point where I dread going out on the roads, simply because of the total frustration of dealing with the ill-equipped cars traveling at a "safe" 30kph in a 50 or even 70 zone. Trying to merge onto Deerfoot south from Coventry hills doing 50-60 kph is where the danger is, not me doing 110.

Fine their asses, force the purchase of winters, what ever, just get them out of the way!

This is my first and probably only post in one of these threads, I try not to read them because I just get peeved off, but there it is, the result of another day stuck behind slow moving vehicles which shouldn't be on the road.

[btimbit]

Surprised they haven't done this already. I think it's a good idea, it worked well in Quebec.

I like the idea of cheaper insurance if you have winters on.

[FraserB]

I don't think drivers who have winters are pompous douchebags, please find where I said that. I have driven on winters and agree that the difference is night and day. Its just that winters are not practical for everyone. I also realize that my 4x4 is not invincible and I have to drive according to conditions.

All I said is that having winters doesn't correct all the problems a shitload of Calgary drivers have. That's why I said make the fine apply to ALL driver regardless of tires, people with winters are less likely to be fined (probably just the bad drivers) and people with all seasons will be more likely to be fined. All that will happen now is the shitty drivers with all seasons buy winters, think they are great and drive like they do in summer. Too bad having the winters won't sure their shitty driving. Plenty of people with winters hold up traffic and wind up in the ditch.

[SKR]

Originally posted by Masked Bandit
On a serious note though, can you even buy winter tires for a full size truck?

You can, but we tried that where I work and the tires didn't last the whole season. They don't seem to be able to deal with the weight of the truck, and gravel chews the shit out of them. We'd put them on in November and by February they were finished.

I don't live in Calgary so I don't get any say in what goes on there, but forcing people to buy two sets of tires a year at $1800-2400 a pop is too much. I know the majority here hates trucks, and I'm sure there are more than a few people supporting this idea because it would discourage people from owning them, but there's people who actually need their trucks to do their job. Sure, you're cocking over the douche that doesn't need a truck, but the guy that does is getting cocked over too.

I'd rather see mandatory winter driver training and insurance reductions for using winter tires. That's the best way to reward people who act responsibly without punishing the people who don't have options.

[ryeguy252]

If this goes through Calgary Transit buses should be fined for not having winter tires. I have seen many accidents caused by buses, or buses that cannot make it up hills (ie. Edgemont)

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/calgary/story/2009/12/14/calgary-buses-snow-tires.html

[spike98]

I dont care if you called a douche, asshole, or ignorant but if this law comes into play i STILL will not be purchasing winter tires.

I have never been in a winter accident in the 10 years i have been driving. Even through my 16yr-18yr punk driver days.

It all comes down to a cost/benifit ratio to me. With the price of winter tires it does not benifit me enough to warrent the purchase.

Years back when i had a 1/4 ton truck that SUCKED on snow and ice, i did purchase a good set of winters. Becuase the benifit of the added traction really helped the truck.

In my current car, i get around just fine, at the posted speed limit. Traction contol and winter driving tecniques get me from A to B safely and at the flow of traffic.

[gpomp]

Originally posted by Masked Bandit
On a serious note though, can you even buy winter tires for a full size truck? all our work trucks have winter tires and they are 3/4 tons...

[old&slow]

winter tires or not, it's the drivers out there.
too many just don't get it when it comes to having a clue about driving and road conditions.
Example: Snowy and windy with falling temps...no really slows down or leaves space...3 days later condition are improved 100%...people now are driving for the snowy and cold conditions 3 days earlier...there seems to be a collective lapse on when to slow down and when to resume normal driving....

[AE92_TreunoSC]

Originally posted by old&slow
winter tires or not, it's the drivers out there.
too many just don't get it when it comes to having a clue about driving and road conditions.
Example: Snowy and windy with falling temps...no really slows down or leaves space...3 days later condition are improved 100%...people now are driving for the snowy and cold conditions 3 days earlier...there seems to be a collective lapse on when to slow down and when to resume normal driving....

Pretty much, you have to get close to the person in front of you, otherwise you get cut off by a truck.

I'd sooner just have more careless driving, unsafe lane change and following too close tickets.

People are going to bitch every year about winter tyres, but its likely not going to happen. ~600$ is a lot for a single mom with a few kids.

[g-m]

^ LOL, I would laugh harder but its true.

And meh, its an irresponsible single mom who is skimping on her children's safety.

[CUG]

Anything to devoid themselves of the responsibility for their FUCKING SHITTY SNOW REMOVAL PROGRAM.

[m10-power]

lol snow tires aren't going to help you get through deep snow in a vehicle lacking ground clearance.

All I see is people going into the ditch at a higher rate of speed because they are on snow tires...not going to cure the shitty driver disease we suffer from.

Expecting snow removal in residential areas is also a joke, main roads sure, but expecting the roads cleared a day after a major snow fail is stupid.

Winter tires are not a requirement to get around in town, they certainly help but being able to drive is of more importance. Proper tires, with a reasonable amount of tread is a better requirement.

Sad that the average driver is incapable of driving even in the rain, so for that reason I'm all for forced winter tires.

If you can't afford them then get a bus pass, or stop smoking/drinking or procreating when you can't afford to...

[Roseberry]

Good idea... But not in our current economic condition :dunno:

[Maxt]

I don't think its all just a tire issue, but just general preparedness and overall vehicle upkeep.
For 18 years I have driven 2wd service trucks with all seasons averaging over 100,000 km's a year in every condition possible and never had an issue. Just having good all around tires, and some weight is enough.
We already have laws for tread depth and vehicle care, just use them as they are existing, we don't need any more laws. Next its gonna be wearing helmets during the commute.
Besides it would have to be a provincial move and how are you going to justify people having full time snow tires in the Pincher Creek area when sometimes they don't even get any snow down there during the winter. I grew up down there, lets just say we never wore out the toboggan, some winters it never left the shed.
We have had a couple of years of heavy and long term snowfall coverage, and the city has started using calcium chloride as a total solution on some roads. The problem with calcium chloride is that initially it creates heat which melts the ice, but if the concentration after melting is weak after the initial melt, especially due to further snow fall increase it just refreezes. On top of that if they go to town on the brine and get the concentration to strong it becomes unpredictable for ice control.

[msommers]

Originally posted by m10-power
If you can't afford them then get a bus pass, or stop smoking/drinking or procreating when you can't afford to...

But being responsible is expensive and inconvenient!

[toastgremlin]

I think this is a great start. We should pattern our traffic laws entirely on Germany's.

You know what other great motoring law they have in Germany?

Staying out of the left lane unless you're passing. If your Odyssey can't even do half of the speed limit without having a violent spin-out, you should not by definition be in the fast lane.

Also, the Germans actually plow their roads. We could also try the British example of getting out of your car when it slides (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MPRmOUxRMY), or we could also not arbitrarily create legislative debates to distract people from when you lose an easy provincial byelection because you refuse to even talk to the news programs when they ask to interview you.

[Cos]

im tired of government telling me what I can and cant do in my life. If i drive like a retard and hit someone in my truck without what they consider 'adequate' tires then I guess my insurance should skyrocket and the ticket should be huge. However making me HAVE those tires before anyone has established I cant drive with my A/T's is a waste of my fucking money and time.

What if I took my bike out in the snow and hit someone, people would call me retarded, not pass a law banning motorcycles in snow.

[89s1]

Originally posted by Cos
im tired of government telling me what I can and cant do in my life. If i drive like a retard and hit someone in my truck without what they consider 'adequate' tires then I guess my insurance should skyrocket and the ticket should be huge. However making me HAVE those tires before anyone has established I cant drive with my A/T's is a waste of my fucking money and time.

What if I took my bike out in the snow and hit someone, people would call me retarded, not pass a law banning motorcycles in snow.

but but but, you're irresponsible and a danger to others on the road without winter tires in winter... omgz

/sarcasm.

[m10-power]

Originally posted by msommers
But being responsible is expensive and inconvenient!

:rofl:



Originally posted by Cos
im tired of government telling me what I can and cant do in my life. If i drive like a retard and hit someone in my truck without what they consider 'adequate' tires then I guess my insurance should skyrocket and the ticket should be huge. However making me HAVE those tires before anyone has established I cant drive with my A/T's is a waste of my fucking money and time.

What if I took my bike out in the snow and hit someone, people would call me retarded, not pass a law banning motorcycles in snow.


I agree, one should be heavily fined if they are involved in an accident(any time) with a poorly maintained vehicle.

As for banning motorcycles in the snow, not sure I agree. With the right tires one could easily ride in the snow.

drOAFm_bYDw

[canuckcarguy]

Great, another law we won't enforce. We have lots of laws regarding safe equipment and safe driving, they're sporadically enforced and publicized.

This should be an insurance issue - if you have winter tires with good tread depth remaining, you should get a break on your premiums. That's reasonable, in the same way that you get reduced comprehensive premiums if you have a car alarm. And to push insurance companies in this direction, the at-fault motorist in an accident should be responsible for all clean-up and emergency service costs.

If somebody crashes his or her car in the winter and that vehicle is improperly maintained or improperly operated, the driver should be charged under existing laws. If a vehicle is being driven way too slowly for conditions because it is unsuitably equipped for winter roads, charge under existing laws. It's very easy to make the argument that a car driven on bald tires is automatically being driven "with undue care and attention"

But mandatory winter tires? I have winter tires on my wife's minivan, they are excellent and I wouldn't have her go through a winter without them. I have driven cars with winter tires before. But now I drive a 4Runner with excellent all-seasons, they are remarkably good in the winter, and it would be overkill to upgrade to winter tires. Plus, then we get into the grey areas of determining tread depths, etc - Are worn out winters any better than new all-seasons?

And how about out of towners? Or, if your grandparents head out to Arizona for the winter on a clear day in January, do they really have to have winter tires on their RV until they hit the border? Would rental cars require winter tires? Transit buses? 18-wheelers? Cop cars? Firetrucks?

Once again, a well-meaning suggestion, but you can't legislate common sense.

[Cos]

Originally posted by m10-power


:rofl:





I agree, one should be heavily fined if they are involved in an accident(any time) with a poorly maintained vehicle.

As for banning motorcycles in the snow, not sure I agree. With the right tires one could easily ride in the snow.

drOAFm_bYDw

I would LOVE to try that with my bike. Nice thing about a 125 i guess is the lack of torque. The guy who taught me how to ride rode his bike 340 days a year. The other week or two he stayed home or just took transit. I know it can be done safely but our society wants to 'Nerf the world' - joe rogan.

[Xtrema]

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2009/12/in-quebec-fines-for-drivers-without-snow-tires/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+wiredautopia+%28Blog+-+Autopia%29&utm_content=Google+Reader

Had no idea that it's $300 fine if you are caught without winters in Montreal.

[racerocco]

Originally posted by Xtrema
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2009/12/in-quebec-fines-for-drivers-without-snow-tires/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+wiredautopia+%28Blog+-+Autopia%29&utm_content=Google+Reader

Had no idea that it's $300 fine if you are caught without winters in Montreal.


"While some may cry “nanny state,” consider 90 percent of Quebec drivers used winter tires before the law. The 10-percenters who don’t were responsible for 38 percent of wintertime accidents — accidents that also involved drivers smart enough to install snow tires on their own vehicles."

Interesting statistic for those who don't think winters should be required...

[bmw2010]

Calgarys peeps whine when there r people drivin wit no winters
Calgarys peeps whine when they institute some lawz that u must drive w winters.
Calgary peepz whine :whipped:

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by racerocco



"While some may cry “nanny state,” consider 90 percent of Quebec drivers used winter tires before the law. The 10-percenters who don’t were responsible for 38 percent of wintertime accidents — accidents that also involved drivers smart enough to install snow tires on their own vehicles."

Interesting statistic for those who don't think winters should be required...

Quebec winter is whole other world compared to Calgary winter.

[Sugarphreak]

....

[max_boost]

Fuck this City sucks for driving. I drive Deerfoot South everyday around 10:30am and it's always easy but today it started lining up past the Peigan exit so I thought, FML, someone crashed!

NOPE!

The 30kms/h traffic from Peigan to almost Glenmore was because everyone was driving super slow. :rofl: :rofl:

This isn't the first snow fall, there's tonnes of shit on the roads, you probably won't spin out and crash on ice unless you were driving like a moron. :rofl::facepalm: