Terrorist tries to blow up transatlantic flight to Detroit

[broken_legs]

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aoH3H1DkJdLE&pos=8



Dec. 25 (Bloomberg) -- A suspected terrorist tried to blow up a Detroit-bound transatlantic flight with 278 passengers before he was subdued, U.S. officials said




A Nigerian man tried to set off an explosive device aboard a U.S. passenger plane as it approached Detroit Friday, but was overpowered by passengers and crew and the aircraft landed safely, U.S. officials said.
Airplane Takeoff

The suspect suffered third-degree burns and was taken into custody.


^^ He actually detonated the bomb on the plane!

If getting your fingerprints, eye retina scan, and picture taken, luggage scanned, random searches, metal detectors etc... Not to mention already being on a terrorist watch list and being listed as having ties to terrorists aren't enough to stop this kind of stuff - I wonder what is.

Not really looking forward to the future of air travel.

[dphillips]

"Abdul Mudallad"

Hopefully they beat that fucking camel humper into an oblivion.

[dphillips]

It appears to be al qaeda related.......

back to the drawing board you fucking camel molesters. Plan it again in your cave.

[kevie88]

I don't know why anyone would try to hijack or use a small IED on a plane in North America. You're just going to get your ass beat. Welcome to the new mellenium motherfuckers!

[dphillips]

Al qaeda relased a video to coincide with this sad attempt.

These goofs really need to try harder. Maybe pull their dinks out of eachother.

[89s1]

I can't wait until you're banned.


Until then, welcome to the ignore list.

[FLARE]

I just flew to vancouver this morning, and the lady helping us at the desk got word from her superior to tell anybody flying to the U.S was going to be 100% searched, including a full physical search (pants off, shirt off type gig).

Insane what this will do for security all over the continent.

[natejj]

Originally posted by FLARE
I just flew to vancouver this morning, and the lady helping us at the desk got word from her superior to tell anybody flying to the U.S was going to be 100% searched, including a full physical search (pants off, shirt off type gig).

Insane what this will do for security all over the continent.

No way. Theres just no way. TSA does not have the manpower to physically search EVERY passenger. This would be in the news by now, and it's not, so I call BS.

Edit: And after a quick search, you were right.

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/12/26/plane-bomb-threat.html?ref=rss


WestJet said passengers heading to the U.S. will have to submit to a physical pat-down search at the departure gate. Each person will be limited to one piece of carry-on luggage, which will be searched by hand.

[7thgenvic]

Originally posted by FLARE
I just flew to vancouver this morning, and the lady helping us at the desk got word from her superior to tell anybody flying to the U.S was going to be 100% searched, including a full physical search (pants off, shirt off type gig).

Insane what this will do for security all over the continent.

NO NO NO....she was wrong....My brother just flew from Calgary today...Nothing really changed.

[Godfuader]

How did he get liquids on board...or just a bunch of 100ml toiletry bottles?


Air Canada said that during the final hour of U.S.-bound flights, customers must remain seated. They will not be allowed to access carry-on baggage during this time or have personal belongings or other items on their laps.
Damn! Its not long before we all get saran wrap body suits at check-in, and get latched into our seats with catheters. Those stupid terrorists want Americans to live in fear...and its working. I don't mind the extra scrutiny at airports...but hate the paranoia that engulfs Americans. :banghead:

[Toma]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8430699.stm\

Epic fail lol....

Tried to combine a powder with a liquid, and .....


Another unnamed passenger heard a "little pop", then saw "a bit of a smoke and then some flames".

LOL.... ah well.... more freedom down the toilet.

[chkolny541]

yea it sounds like a pretty epic fail, all that happened was he burned the shit out of his legs, haha, fantastic!!

[revelations]

This is ass retarded.

The terrorists are getting exactly what they wanted - a knee jerk reaction from the burecrats who are just as stupid as the rest of the population.

Anybody with 1/2 a brain can figure out that if youre only allowed to bring 100ml of liquid on board, whats stopping you from bring 10x 100ml bottles on board and then mix them in the bathroom.

If youre detained in your seats for an hour (no pee breaks) prior to landing, whats stopping someone one from detonating something 1:01 before the restriction and going to the bathroom prior to that?

What about the technicians and the baggage handlers who wander in and out of the secure areas with minimal security?

[pyroza]

Members of a wealthy Nigerian family have confirmed to journalists that he is the son of the former chairman of First Bank of Nigeria, the BBC's Caroline Duffield reports from Lagos.

So that's the guy that keeps sending me emails!

[gqmw]

Originally posted by pyroza


So that's the guy that keeps sending me emails!

LOL!

So glad I got back earlier this week. That sounds like such a hassle.

[Cock Knuckle]

"confirmed to journalists that he is the son of the former chairman of First Bank of Nigeria"

Now you can expect the "war on terror" to noticeably permeate the internet. An indirect link between Nigerian scamming/banking and Al Quaeda (no matter how flimsy) will equal win for anyone who has been bothered by them.

Look at the evidence behind starting the 2nd Gulf war; Nigeria better start kissing shoe bottoms if they want to maintain their 3rd world status vs a smoking crater.

[Rat Fink]

.

[colt22]

This is most likley another u.s elite fabricated horror story to keep the masses in fear and inline like stupid little sheep.
Next thing youll hear is how more troops and funding have been used for the war in iraq over the incident.
ITS FOR OUR FREEDOM.. RIGHT?

[randedge]

Unfortunately, the one thing that doesn't happen everytime one of these is on the news is the price of Airline tickets going down dramatically.
Everything else that makes travelling more inconvenient is enacted, but then people still aren't actually scared enough to fly like during 9.11
No point to this story really. I'm just saying how I can't even capitalize on any trend that could possibly occur from this - and tickets going down isn't one of them.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by colt22
This is most likley another u.s elite fabricated horror story to keep the masses in fear and inline like stupid little sheep.
Next thing youll hear is how more troops and funding have been used for the war in iraq over the incident.
ITS FOR OUR FREEDOM.. RIGHT?

:facepalm:

Are you simple?

It's obviously a plot by the Canadian consumer market, as the dollar value gets closer to par, to make it more annoying for Canucks to cross-border shop, and keep ripping us off at the till.



Originally posted by colt22
This is most likley another u.s elite fabricated horror story to keep the masses in fear and inline like stupid little sheep.
Next thing youll hear is how more troops and funding have been used for the war in iraq over the incident.
ITS FOR OUR FREEDOM.. RIGHT?

"This just in, the Homeland Security has created a new alert level... the newest level is where we were elevated to in light of recent terrorist events. We are now at Epic Alert!"

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u64/TykTauk/epic.jpg

[rage2]

Originally posted by Cock Knuckle
"confirmed to journalists that he is the son of the former chairman of First Bank of Nigeria"

Now you can expect the "war on terror" to noticeably permeate the internet. An indirect link between Nigerian scamming/banking and Al Quaeda (no matter how flimsy) will equal win for anyone who has been bothered by them.

Look at the evidence behind starting the 2nd Gulf war; Nigeria better start kissing shoe bottoms if they want to maintain their 3rd world status vs a smoking crater.
WTF?

First off, Nigerian Banks have nothing to do with Nigerian scams. Second, the father warned US officials in November about his son, but it was largely ignored as there wasn't enough information to revoke his Visa status.

[turbotrip]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok


"This just in, the Homeland Security has created a new alert level... the newest level is where we were elevated to in light of recent terrorist events. We are now at Epic Alert!"

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u64/TykTauk/epic.jpg

:rofl: :rofl:

[AG_Styles]

great, now limiting carryon luggage in cabin... along with other bullshit.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_airline_attack_regulations

how about they increase baggage weight capacity then if they're gonna do this... fucking bullshit knee-jerk reaction.

[Toma]

THIS PISSES ME OFF....

I mean for fuck sakes, they had WARNING that this guy was a dipshit, why are we paying for their STUPIDITY and lack of action?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8431470.stm

Got the American administration is fucking stupid, OR corrupt ;)

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by Toma
THIS PISSES ME OFF....
why are we paying for their STUPIDITY and lack of action?


More than you realize when you wrote that too, think of all the "security tax" dollars we've all spent in the past 8 fucking years, and THE SYSTEM DOESNT EVEN FUCKING WORK!

[revelations]

^ BTW the airport "security" fee was courtesy of the Liberal party of Canada... and guess what, it goes straight into GENERAL REVENUE.

[CUG]

I'm so excited to fly back into Canada... wow.

[2Valve0]

I wonder how bad they kicked the shit out of this guy on the plane...:rofl:
4 americans vs. tied up terrorist

[CUG]

Originally posted by 2Valve0
I wonder how bad they kicked the shit out of this guy on the plane...:rofl:
4 americans vs. tied up terrorist No kidding, personally, I'd work to remove the guys head and put it on his own penis.

[rage2]

My bro just flew back to Chicago this morning. 2 hours through security, 2 hours waiting for the rest of the flight to get through security. Brutal. Took him 9 hrs to get home.

Lots of people aren't aware of the new 1 carry-on only rule. At least they're giving complimentary baggage check-in for everyone.

[broken_legs]

im flying to texas on the 11th, i'll report back on how many of my civil liberties have been violated.

[7thgenvic]

Originally posted by CUG
I'm so excited to fly back into Canada... wow.

SHOOT! I might be screwed too! I fly back from Phoenix on the 29th :(

[Godfuader]

Calgary Airport was a mess today. The new "No admittance till 2hrs before US flight" didnt help either.

[Little Dragon]

Originally posted by Godfuader
Calgary Airport was a mess today. The new "No admittance till 2hrs before US flight" didnt help either.

Yeah, this terrorist attempt is going to screw up so many flights...including mine!!

But, I'd much rather have a flight delayed than have my flight blown up! :D

[Rat Fink]

.

[revelations]

Originally posted by Little Dragon


Yeah, this terrorist attempt is going to screw up so many flights...including mine!!

But, I'd much rather have a flight delayed than have my flight blown up! :D

:confused: The guys doing the blowing up part are always one step ahead of the knee jerk reaction policy makers.

[rage2]

Originally posted by Little Dragon
But, I'd much rather have a flight delayed than have my flight blown up! :D
I'm glad you got suckered into the false sense of security. If some crazy terrorist wants to blow up a plane, it's going to be done.

Look at all the inconvienences we've had to go through for air travel. The insane security checkpoints, not allowing liquids through security, moms forced to drink their own breast milk, shoes off, random full searches, no matches, no lighters... and somehow this guy was able to sneak in PETN and nitroglycerin, and the only thing that saved the plane was the fact that the "design" of the device didn't allow proper mixing and didn't burn hot enough to explode, and only caused a fire.

Adding all sorts of delays will just add that... delays to our travels. The terrorists will figure out a new way to sneak an explosive device on board if they wanted to.

[CUG]

Originally posted by 7thgenvic


SHOOT! I might be screwed too! I fly back from Phoenix on the 29th :( Post up, because I stop in Phoenix on my way back for a few hours, and I might just hang in that stupid US Air lounge for the 40 bucks.

[revelations]

Originally posted by rage2

I'm glad you got suckered into the false sense of security. If some crazy terrorist wants to blow up a plane, it's going to be done.

Look at all the inconvienences we've had to go through for air travel. The insane security checkpoints, not allowing liquids through security, moms forced to drink their own breast milk, shoes off, random full searches, no matches, no lighters... and somehow this guy was able to sneak in PETN and nitroglycerin, and the only thing that saved the plane was the fact that the "design" of the device didn't allow proper mixing and didn't burn hot enough to explode, and only caused a fire.

Adding all sorts of delays will just add that... delays to our travels. The terrorists will figure out a new way to sneak an explosive device on board if they wanted to.

Seriously, if I wanted to bring anything on a plane... I'd just start a flight from some hick airport in .... Nigeria or northern Canada... where security exists like sobriety.

[Seanith]

First of all, the media, and everyone for that matter has to stop being so politically correct about these types of incidents. This guy wasn't just a "terrorist" and a "Nigerian fellow" as the media always likes to report. Let's tell it like it is.

This guy was a Muslim extremist, doing his part in the good fight that we know as Jihad towards the west. It's even reported that he was tied to the radical Al Qaeda Imam that advised the shooter in the Fort Hood shooting. Why are these peices of shit allowed to fly or even come to Western countries?


"At the secondary school, he was known for preaching about Islam to his schoolmates and he was popularly called 'Alfa,' a local coinage for Islamic scholar," This Day reported.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2009/12/26/2009-12-26_father_of_umar_farouk_abdul_mutallab_nigerian_terror_suspect_in_flight_253_attac.html

[kaput]

.

[revelations]

Originally posted by kaput
... During the countdown, almost every single person stood up in a line down the aisle for the bathroom and created even more chaos. Then we had to go through security and get searched again, AFTER getting off the plane. The entertainment system was also disabled throughout the flight because it had a GPS function and nobody was to know where we were.

:facepalm:

It not like I could take a GPS reciever with me on board or anything....

[Little Dragon]

Originally posted by rage2

I'm glad you got suckered into the false sense of security. If some crazy terrorist wants to blow up a plane, it's going to be done.


Couldn't it have been done hundreds of times by now then?
Why have the terrorists not blown up every flight in America?

Airport security, in my opinion, is the biggest factor.


Originally posted by rage2


Look at all the inconvienences we've had to go through for air travel. The insane security checkpoints, not allowing liquids through security, moms forced to drink their own breast milk, shoes off, random full searches, no matches, no lighters... and somehow this guy was able to sneak in PETN and nitroglycerin, and the only thing that saved the plane was the fact that the "design" of the device didn't allow proper mixing and didn't burn hot enough to explode, and only caused a fire.

Adding all sorts of delays will just add that... delays to our travels. The terrorists will figure out a new way to sneak an explosive device on board if they wanted to.

While I do agree with you that the delays are a PITA :banghead: , in my opinion again, I'd rather have my flight delayed than have it blown up/hijacked.

Just my $0.02

[rage2]

Originally posted by Little Dragon
Couldn't it have been done hundreds of times by now then?
Why have the terrorists not blown up every flight in America?

Airport security, in my opinion, is the biggest factor.

While I do agree with you that the delays are a PITA :banghead: , in my opinion again, I'd rather have my flight delayed than have it blown up/hijacked.
As long as you "feel" safer. :thumbsup:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_hijackings

We had more hijackings in the 2000's than the 1990's, and only 1 less than the 1980's. You can bring a suitcase of coke on a plane back then and not get busted lol.

Can't tell you why the terrorists and extremists haven't tried harder. Probably because there aren't that many idiots out there to brainwash to actually pull this shit off?

[Grogador]

I've had random carryon searches at the gate before, but this security theater is getting out of hand. Like the high-school dropout with the barely-double-digit IQ could even spot something 'dangerous'. It's a retarded, knee-jerk reaction to a non-issue; I feel much more threatened in the taxi, or crossing any American street, than on a plane full of radical islamists terrorist shitbags with pockets full of saltpeter.

Are these heightened security theatrics permanent? Might transfer to Europe branch after all...

[Antonito]

Originally posted by rage2
Can't tell you why the terrorists and extremists haven't tried harder. Probably because there aren't that many idiots out there to brainwash to actually pull this shit off?

Pretty much this. Despite what many Beyonders here will tell you, not every muslim is a crazed jihadi psychopath. The number of people willing to blow up planes goes down even further once they are exposed to first world conditions, which explains the disparity between bombings in America and in Iraq.

[revelations]

This is a list of terrorist events around the world in 09 - North America is not the only victim here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents,_2009

[Seanith]

Originally posted by Antonito

The number of people willing to blow up planes goes down even further once they are exposed to first world conditions, which explains the disparity between bombings in America and in Iraq.

Umar Farouk Abdul Mutallab the muslim terrorist in question was "an engineering student at University College of London" in 2005 -2008. He was apparently living in a $4million flat at the time. Also, there's reports that there are "more like him". He was radicalized in London, as are many.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article2785733.ece

So no, being exposed to "first world conditions" is not a valid reason, and you're full of shit. The underlying problem is Islam itself. If you don't understand why Muslims in Iraq aren't bombing their own planes versus a Jihad against the US and western democracies, perhaps you should enlighten yourself about what the Koran is about. Violence and Jihad against infidels and non-believers is encouraged and acceptable. Hey, it's even in the book.

[Antonito]

Originally posted by Seanith
Umar Farouk Abdul Mutallab the muslim terrorist in question was "an engineering student at University College of London" in 2005 -2008. He was apparently living in a $4million flat at the time. Also, there's reports that there are "more like him". He was radicalized in London, as are many.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article2785733.ece

So no, being exposed to "first world conditions" is not a valid reason, and you're full of shit.
Living in first world conditions greatly reduces someones tendency to wage any kind of holy war simply because the main factors that spur on acts of radical violence are generally not there. It's hard to whip someone into enough of a frenzy to go blow themselves up if the other alternative is to go watch TV in a heated apartment. For someone in a third world shit hole whose alternative is to slowly die of malnutrition, the jihad option becomes more appealing. Throw in money for their families and hop them up on methamphetamines, and you have yourself a holy soldier.

Thus you have far fewer muslims to draw from in the western nations, because a far higher number cannot be swayed by promises of cash for their families, mind altering drugs, and 72 virgins.

Originally posted by Seanith
The underlying problem is Islam itself. If you don't understand why Muslims in Iraq aren't bombing their own planes versus a Jihad against the US and western democracies, perhaps you should enlighten yourself about what the Koran is about. Violence and Jihad against infidels and non-believers is encouraged and acceptable. Hey, it's even in the book. Actually, the underlying problem is poverty, ignorance and fanaticism in general. The bible has passages that instruct the faithful to destroy Gods enemies, which have been invoked for the various Christian atrocities both in far history (the Crusades) and recently in the forms of the various White Supremacist groups, abortion clinic bombers, the various groups that helped form Americas most prolific terrorist Timothy McVeigh, and so forth.

Also from around the world, groups like the IRA, the Bosnian genocide, various mass murder sprees in India, Indonesia, and Africa are tied to Christianity.

For further materials on the subject, feel free to click on the following links:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TD9JMwQKirQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-Sk2JRiaWk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SJqRJeeMdc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmaes5-Mg8g

Now, before an army of pissed off people start stating why I'm wrong about the various items listed (especially those overseas), know that I'm only listing these as examples of atrocities that, given a biased spin, can be blamed on Christianity, and not stating them as fact. If anyone quotes the paragraphs above and argues with me about why the IRA was the victim, or how the Bosnian genocide didn't happen, or blah blah blah, it means you have completely missed the point and are either stupid or a troll.

Back on topic: given that anybody with some time on their hands can make any religion look like a bunch of blood thirsty lunatics, you'll have to excuse me if I'm not about to join your crusade to have Islam wiped off the face of the earth.

[Crymson]

as of last night , they're apparantely banning ALL carryon luggage now.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/calgary/story/2009/12/28/airports-security.html

Great.

Air Canada has lost my bag on every single international trip i've taken, now i always pack a carry on that i can survive with for 2 days until my real bag arrives.

Not looking forward to this trip to costa rica in 2 weeks.

[Seanith]

Originally posted by Antonito

Back on topic: given that anybody with some time on their hands can make any religion look like a bunch of blood thirsty lunatics, you'll have to excuse me if I'm not about to join your crusade to have Islam wiped off the face of the earth.

I'd tend to agree with you if we were just talking about a religion here. Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism, Sikh, Hindu, etc are religions. Islam is a totalitarianist idealogy that has rules on how every believer is supposed to live his life in every facet. It also has its own Sharia laws that believers, most of which that live in western democracies like in Britain, Paris, and the Netherlands, want instigated into these countries.

Antonito, I hope one day "the joke will be on you" and you'll see that people that share my view on Islam will be right. The problem is, it won't be a fucking joke when one by one countries in Europe fall to the fascist, supremist "religion" we know as Islam. Islamification of Europe is happening now, and it gets worse everyday.

I guess we'll see what happens in the end of the month. Our hopes for free speech and democracy are resting in Geert Wilders in Amsterdam.

Until then, we won't be able to bring carry on luggage and will continue to lose our freedoms since we aren't allowed to point our finger to where we see the problem. Extreme Political Correctness will be our demise.

[Antonito]

Originally posted by Seanith
I'd tend to agree with you if we were just talking about a religion here. Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism, Sikh, Hindu, etc are religions. Islam is a totalitarianist idealogy that has rules on how every believer is supposed to live his life in every facet. It also has its own Sharia laws that believers, most of which that live in western democracies like in Britain, Paris, and the Netherlands, want instigated into these countries.
:rofl: They're all totalitarianist ideologies. If you took some time to look into the teachings of most of the religions, they have rules that, if people actually followed them instead of just cherry picking, would be similar to what fanatical-Islamic countries are like today.

I bet you're also aware that the Jewish have their own legal mediation system similar to Sharia law, right? The only difference is that Jewish mediation is actually legal in Western Nations. Oh the humanity


Originally posted by Seanith

Antonito, I hope one day "the joke will be on you" and you'll see that people that share my view on Islam will be right. The problem is, it won't be a fucking joke when one by one countries in Europe fall to the fascist, supremist "religion" we know as Islam. Islamification of Europe is happening now, and it gets worse everyday.

I guess we'll see what happens in the end of the month. Our hopes for free speech and democracy are resting in Geert Wilders in Amsterdam.

Until then, we won't be able to bring carry on luggage and will continue to lose our freedoms since we aren't allowed to point our finger to where we see the problem. Extreme Political Correctness will be our demise.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Geert Wilders :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I love how people who stick up for Geert Wilders' right to freedom and democracy completely miss the irony. "They must respect our right to advocate to take rights away from others!"

:facepalm:

[Graham_A_M]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok


:facepalm:

Are you simple?

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u64/TykTauk/epic.jpg

No, he drives a BMW so I guess not :rolleyes:






Epic pic is epic!

[Grogador]

Shit is ALWAYS ORANGE WTFFFFWHARRRRGARRRBL

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by Little Dragon

Airport security, in my opinion, is the biggest factor.


Actually it isn't. It's the last ditch effort to stop a terrorist. They try to catch these guys in the planning stages, LONG before they even buy the plane ticket.

Believe me, I work at the airport here. If anyone wanted to get a bomb on-board any aircraft, it wouldn't be overly difficult. Especially smaller business class jets, there's no security at all to get onto those things.

[colt22]

Originally posted by Graham_A_M


No, he drives a BMW so I guess not :rolleyes:






Epic pic is epic!

yah.. I drive a bmw.. I am awesome cool popular and smart automatically just by registering the car in my name.

[Graham_A_M]

^ I'm sure you earnestly believe that judging by a healthy share of your posts.

[Manhattan]

http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/20091228/470_suspect1.jpg http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_/34141365/Gucci+Mane+Gucci+Mug+01.jpg

GUCCI MANE!

[CUG]

Originally posted by Antonito


Pretty much this. Despite what many Beyonders here will tell you, not every muslim is a crazed jihadi psychopath. You're 100% correct, but your expansionist efforts breed the crazi jihadi psychopaths.

[CUG]

Originally posted by Antonito


I'm only listing these as examples of atrocities that, given a biased spin, can be blamed on Christianity, and not stating them as fact.
Back on topic: given that anybody with some time on their hands can make any religion look like a bunch of blood thirsty lunatics, you'll have to excuse me if I'm not about to join your crusade to have Islam wiped off the face of the earth. I kind of disagree with you though homie, because other than the non-violent but offensive Westboro Baptists, I don't see certain members of any religion other than yours really being bloodthirsty lunatics, bro.

I mean no offense, and if you say it's just media spin, I'll give you the benefit of that doubt.. but know that it will be difficult in the future to make your arguments using the same material you've been for quite a while.

[soupey]

all i know is that i accidentally carried my swiss army knife in my carryon on my flight from newark to toronto to calgary. looks like im in for a gongshow on the 1st to get back to school. i hope this rule reverses over time.

[turbotrip]

Originally posted by CUG
I kind of disagree with you though homie, because other than the non-violent but offensive Westboro Baptists, I don't see certain members of any religion other than yours really being bloodthirsty lunatics, bro.

well that depends which angle you look at it from. from a completely objective point of view one could say muslims are killing innocent people with suicide bombers, jews are killing innocent people in palestine, and christians are killing innocent people in iraq/afghanistan. the only difference is the number of people dying in each situation.

[CUG]

Originally posted by turbotrip


well that depends which angle you look at it from. from a completely objective point of view one could say muslims are killing innocent people with suicide bombers, jews are killing innocent people in palestine, and christians are killing innocent people in iraq/afghanistan. the only difference is the number of people dying in each situation. Huh? There's a religious group sending extremists to Iraq/Afghanistan? I was sure the USA was a government, and a liberal one at that...

[Antonito]

Originally posted by CUG
I kind of disagree with you though homie, because other than the non-violent but offensive Westboro Baptists, I don't see certain members of any religion other than yours really being bloodthirsty lunatics, bro. This is either a joke about atheists, or you're talking to the wrong person again.

Either way, you're fucking kidding, right? You can't possibly be trying to say that no other religion has bloodthirsty lunatics, can you?


Originally posted by CUG

I mean no offense, and if you say it's just media spin, I'll give you the benefit of that doubt.. but know that it will be difficult in the future to make your arguments using the same material you've been for quite a while.
I...don't even know what you're trying to say here.

[CUG]

Originally posted by Antonito
This is either a joke about atheists, or you're talking to the wrong person again.

Either way, you're fucking kidding, right? You can't possibly be trying to say that no other religion has bloodthirsty lunatics, can you?
None really come to mind that are active in today's society :)

[Antonito]

Originally posted by CUG
None really come to mind that are active in today's society :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_violence

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikh_extremism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incidents_in_the_Gaza_War

[CUG]

Originally posted by Antonito


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_violence

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikh_extremism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incidents_in_the_Gaza_War

wikiwikiwikiwikiwiki what? You know better than to debate with me on this issue. I favour self-preservation, while maintaining an appropriate, but not all-consuming level of white-guilt. I'm the only friend you've got here.

Btw, I rarely if at all visit wikipedia especially for stuff like this... it's not that it's one sided or anything, but yeah, what a wonderful avenue to provide pseudo-cred.

[Antonito]

Originally posted by CUG


wikiwikiwikiwikiwiki what? You know better than to debate with me on this issue. I favour self-preservation, while maintaining an appropriate, but not all-consuming level of white-guilt. I'm the only friend you've got here. I understand your sense of self-preservation, but cannot understand the things you advocate in the name of that goal. How does segregating and infuriating an already pissed off group help in any way? Unless your end goal is to simply commit genocide, banning and deporting muslims is not a good idea. All it does is convert peaceful muslims into bitter spiteful people out for revenge. There's already a big enough group of those, adding to their ranks would be a tactical error, wouldn't you agree?

A far more effective approach would be to keep the vast majority of muslims (especially those in Western countries) content to live their lives peacefully, while waging an ideological campaign against those that believe that jihad is a reasonable solution. By all means, imprison and prosecute any that would actually conspire to hurt others, but don't then turn around and arrest his neighbour because he also wears a turban.

I know, I know, Islam preaches that all infidels must be converted or killed, but look at 99.9% of the muslims here in Canada. Do they really give a shit? No. The same way that you don't smite down Gods enemies as instructed by the Bible, because in the context of modern society, it's just fucking dumb. It's far more effective to let modern society do its thing and replace extreme religious views than it is to try to stamp them out with more ignorance. There will always be jihadists, just like there will always be abortion clinic bombers and post office shooters. The trick is to not push more people to this fringe by confirming a persecution complex.

I realize this is all very "white guilt" and "liberal", but most things that don't end badly usually are.

Originally posted by CUG

Btw, I rarely if at all visit wikipedia especially for stuff like this... it's not that it's one sided or anything, but yeah, what a wonderful avenue to provide pseudo-cred. I'm always amazed by your determination to remain as ignorant of the issues you're debating as possible.
:)

[codetrap]

Originally posted by Antonito

I'm always amazed by your determination to remain as ignorant of the issues you're debating as possible.
:)

I think he's saying that wikipedia is a bullshit source, and isn't to be trusted since it can be edited by any fucktard with a keyboard, regardless of knowledge level.

[Seanith]

HxsCxtzJEdM&feature=player_embedded

[Antonito]

Originally posted by codetrap
I think he's saying that wikipedia is a bullshit source, and isn't to be trusted since it can be edited by any fucktard with a keyboard, regardless of knowledge level.

If you're worried about whether it's bullshit or not, click on the reference numbers and see where the source material is coming from. It's really the same concept as any other material you read on the internet. Although I do realise that many here (on both sides of the spectrum) read things from their preferred source and go "durr, that sounds reasonable" and never actually looks at where the facts and figures are coming from.

For example, when CUG pointed out that the Republican party is not an outright religious faction, I looked up that quote I'd heard many times from Bush about going to war because God told him to. I noticed that this quote appears in articles, but in a wishy washy way. So I looked it up on Snopes, and sure enough the actual transcript had nothing of the sort being said.

And that's how you shape your worldview, by looking into things, not just taking at face value whatever someone that you agree with says.

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by Antonito


For example, when CUG pointed out that the Republican party is not an outright religious faction, I looked up that quote I'd heard many times from Bush about going to war because God told him to. I noticed that this quote appears in articles, but in a wishy washy way. So I looked it up on Snopes, and sure enough the actual transcript had nothing of the sort being said.

And that's how you shape your worldview, by looking into things, not just taking at face value whatever someone that you agree with says.

You found a transcript of the meeting with George Bush and the Palestinian official who later went on record to the BBC that he said those things to him?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/4320586.stm

I would really love to read this transcript of yours!

Isn't Snopes just a form like Beyond? How can you trust anything you read there any more than here? Thats like believing Glen Beck when he de-bunks a story from Lou Dobbs.

[BigMass]

Leaders use religion as an excuses to appease the idiot masses. It’s a cop out. In reality, leaders go to war for REAL reasons. Power, money, control, etc. Sure, Bush can say he went to war because God told him. You actually believe that? A) Bush doesn’t take a shit without getting permission from his advisors. They are highly intelligent individuals that spend years planning political and economic strategy. Yet people believe Religion is a real motive? Hah.

[codetrap]

Originally posted by Antonito


If you're worried about whether it's bullshit or not, click on the reference numbers and see where the source material is coming from. It's really the same concept as any other material you read on the internet. Although I do realise that many here (on both sides of the spectrum) read things from their preferred source and go "durr, that sounds reasonable" and never actually looks at where the facts and figures are coming from.


I have done this on wikipedia a lot, and 9 times out of ten it's referencing another website, or a cnn interview, or some other unreliable source. However on the surface it looks totally on the up and up, when you start actually digging into the sources you find that it's utter BS. Hence my general distrust of wikipedia.

I'm pretty certain that if you cite wikipedia as a source in a news article, or any paper at pretty much every educational level, you'll get laughed out of the room. Pretty much everyone in the world that has any critical thinking skills realize that most of the articles on wikipedia are slanted and rife with the personal agenda's of the authors.

So, in short, when people start quoting wikipedia as support for their arguments, it kinda destroys any credibility they have. Personally, I'm not going to waste my time following a wiki source and then wading through the crap to determine if the source is valid or not. That's your responsibility as the person who's presenting it. Considering that it's such a shitty overall source, it's like trying to find the diamond in the turdpile.

[Antonito]

Originally posted by broken_legs


You found a transcript of the meeting with George Bush and the Palestinian official who later went on record to the BBC that he said those things to him?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/4320586.stm

I would really love to read this transcript of yours!

Isn't Snopes just a form like Beyond? How can you trust anything you read there any more than here? Thats like believing Glen Beck when he de-bunks a story from Lou Dobbs.

Alright, from various articles on the matter:


One of the delegates, Nabil Shaath, who was Palestinian foreign minister at the time, said: "President Bush said to all of us: 'I am driven with a mission from God'. God would tell me, 'George go and fight these terrorists in Afghanistan'. And I did. And then God would tell me 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq'. And I did."

Mr Bush went on: "And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, 'Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East'. And, by God, I'm gonna do it."

Mr Bush, who became a born-again Christian at 40, is one of the most overtly religious leaders to occupy the White House, a fact which brings him much support in middle America.

Alright, seems on the up and up, but one thing bugged me:



Soon after, the Israeli daily newspaper Haaretz carried a Palestinian transcript of the meeting, containing a version of Mr Bush's remarks. But the Palestinian delegation was reluctant publicly to acknowledge its authenticity.

This....struck me as odd.

So a trip to Snopes linked to this article:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article576481.ece

with this:


Nabil Shaath, who was the Palestinian foreign minister at the time, said in a BBC interview that Bush had added: “God would tell me, ‘George, go and fight these terrorists in Afghanistan’. And I did. And then God would tell me, ‘George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq’. And I did.”

Shaath has since modified his original account of Bush’s words during the Israeli- Palestinian summit at the Egyptian resort of Sharm el-Sheikh in 2003. Both he and Mahmoud Abbas, then the Palestinian prime minister and who was also present at the meeting, now say Bush did not claim that he had “felt God’s words coming to me”. The White House has also denied that Bush said anything of the kind.

So there you go. Don't get me wrong, I'm pretty confident that Bush uses God to justify his decisions to himself, but it's hard to say that as a fact when the only people that have heard him say so (at least publicly) later recant their story.

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by Antonito


Alright, from various articles on the matter:



Alright, seems on the up and up, but one thing bugged me:



This....struck me as odd.

So a trip to Snopes linked to this article:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article576481.ece

with this:



So there you go. Don't get me wrong, I'm pretty confident that Bush uses God to justify his decisions to himself, but it's hard to say that as a fact when the only people that have heard him say so (at least publicly) later recant their story.

I don't see a link to the transcript - or even a link to the story about the transcript.

All i see is a video documentary produced by the BBC where the Palestinian Prime Minister says GWB said those things.

I hope you have those links and didn't blindly believe that the de-bunking of the story was the truth because you read it on snopes. ;)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_4320000/newsid_4320400/4320422.stm?bw=nb&mp=wm&news=1&bbcws=1

[Antonito]

Originally posted by codetrap


I have done this on wikipedia a lot, and 9 times out of ten it's referencing another website, or a cnn interview, or some other unreliable source. However on the surface it looks totally on the up and up, when you start actually digging into the sources you find that it's utter BS. Hence my general distrust of wikipedia.
I'm going to have to call bullshit on this. Which wiki articles are you reading where the only links are to other websites?

Lets take a look at the sources used in the Wiki articles I linked to:


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How many of those would you say are simply other websites?

Originally posted by codetrap


I'm pretty certain that if you cite wikipedia as a source in a news article, or any paper at pretty much every educational level, you'll get laughed out of the room. Pretty much everyone in the world that has any critical thinking skills realize that most of the articles on wikipedia are slanted and rife with the personal agenda's of the authors.

So, in short, when people start quoting wikipedia as support for their arguments, it kinda destroys any credibility they have. Personally, I'm not going to waste my time following a wiki source and then wading through the crap to determine if the source is valid or not. That's your responsibility as the person who's presenting it. Considering that it's such a shitty overall source, it's like trying to find the diamond in the turdpile.

People that are either getting paid or are being marked on what they are presenting will get laughed out of the room for not taking the time to follow the sources. I am neither getting paid, nor am I being marked.

So when someone like CUG makes the ridiculous statements that he does, and knowing that he will almost assuredly ignore anything that I copy and paste anyways, it's just easier to link to wikipedia.

If I'm arguing with someone that I think has any actual intellectual curiosity, I'll often directly quote things and give links. CUG is not one of those people.

[Antonito]

Originally posted by broken_legs


I don't see a link to the transcript - or even a link to the story about the transcript.

All i see is a video documentary produced by the BBC where the Palestinian Prime Minister says GWB said those things.

I hope you have those links and didn't blindly believe that the de-bunking of the story was the truth because you read it on snopes. ;)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_4320000/newsid_4320400/4320422.stm?bw=nb&mp=wm&news=1&bbcws=1

Lets see here, an english news source reports that a Palestinian leader says something.

At a later date, an english news source reports that that leader (and the Prime Minister) change their stories.

You can't discredit one without discrediting the other

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by Antonito


Lets see here, an english news source reports that a Palestinian leader says something.

At a later date, an english news source reports that that leader (and the Prime Minister) change their stories.

You can't discredit one without discrediting the other

So i take it by your cop out here, that you have just lectured all of us on not taking things for face value, yet you did exactly that when you read the so called debunking on Snopes.


Just saying man... :D


Couldn't resist:


Originally posted by Antonito

And that's how you shape your worldview, by looking into things, not just taking at face value whatever someone that you agree with says.

Oh and heres a link to that article that supposedly refutes the claim

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=310788&contrassID=2



"According to Abbas, Bush said: 'God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them.'"


Seems like it's confirming the quote not denying it lol :rofl:

[Antonito]

Originally posted by broken_legs


So i take it by your cop out here, that you have just lectured all of us on not taking things for face value, yet you did exactly that when you read the so called debunking on Snopes.


Just saying man... :D


Couldn't resist:



Oh and heres a link to that article that supposedly refutes the claim

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=310788&contrassID=2

I'm sorry, did you just link the exact same quote again? Really? Do you not understand how time works?

edit after your edit: Seeing as how that's the source of the first quote, yes, I'm not surprised that it "confirms" :rolleyes:

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by Antonito


I'm sorry, did you just link the exact same quote again? Really? Do you not understand how time works?

edit after your edit: Seeing as how that's the source of the first quote, yes, I'm not surprised that it "confirms" :rolleyes:

I have no idea what you're trying to say, but obviously you won't deal with any of the challenges i've brought to your reasoning so I will just end this with another one of your quotes :D



Originally posted by Antonito

I'm always amazed by your determination to remain as ignorant of the issues you're debating as possible.
:)

[codetrap]

Originally posted by Antonito

I'm going to have to call bullshit on this. Which wiki articles are you reading where the only links are to other websites?
Lets take a look at the sources used in the Wiki articles I linked to:
How many of those would you say are simply other websites?
People that are either getting paid or are being marked on what they are presenting will get laughed out of the room for not taking the time to follow the sources. I am neither getting paid, nor am I being marked.


Antonito,

Did you follow any of those sources that were quoted in the article? Most of them that I checked are about incidences where Christians have been violent, not "Christian Violence". Also, a bunch of the "links" to other websites don't actually go anywhere. They're dead links.

[CUG]

Without wikipedia, Antonito wouldn't exist. I'm almost positive he's just a server sitting in a network room somewhere.

[Antonito]

Originally posted by codetrap


Antonito,

Did you follow any of those sources that were quoted in the article? Most of them that I checked are about incidences where Christians have been violent, not "Christian Violence".
Ah yes, this wonderful paradox. If a muslim is violent, it's because he's muslim. If a Christian is violent, it's because he's acting unChristianly. The no-true-Scotsman defense. Lovely.



Originally posted by codetrap

Also, a bunch of the "links" to other websites don't actually go anywhere. They're dead links.
Yeah, the internet is funny like that. If you google the titles you can often find the article or similar anyways. But I know, that requires work and all that.

But that sure is 9/10 eh? ;)

[ZenOps]

Well..

Muslims tend to not announce their intentions of violence beforehand. When a radical element does announce threats, it happens on such a frequent basis as to be disregarded.

Completely opposite to Christianity, where you pretty well always get a well laid out and explicit warning before a million man slaughter is going to happen. Right Bloody Well War!

Which does make things very scary... Since in general the middle eastern faiths do not announce things like war - beforehand.

Is it more civilized to announce your intent first? I'd have to say yes. In terms of actual death though - same difference no difference.

IE: Its more civilized for me to say that I intend to throw a pie at Rob Anders - than to just show up at a random gathering and throw a snowball at him? According to a muslim, no. According to a Christian, yes.

[soupey]

just got back into the states today.

the security checks arent nearly as bad as the news makes it sound. yes it's longer and more thorough for any US bound locations. but it's not at the point that you'll miss flights if you plan ahead of time.

I was able to take my camera/laptop backpack on to the plane as carry on luggage. as long as your bag is dedicated to holding a laptop or camera or both, and you don't throw anything not camera/laptop related inside. they will not have a problem with you taking it onboard, but it will be subject to a search, and you get a mild patdown that's only a tiny bit more comprehensive than being pat down before entering a club in calgary.

[Seanith]

Originally posted by ZenOps
Well..

Muslims tend to not announce their intentions of violence beforehand. When a radical element does announce threats, it happens on such a frequent basis as to be disregarded.

Completely opposite to Christianity, where you pretty well always get a well laid out and explicit warning before a million man slaughter is going to happen. Right Bloody Well War!

Which does make things very scary... Since in general the middle eastern faiths do not announce things like war - beforehand.

Is it more civilized to announce your intent first? I'd have to say yes. In terms of actual death though - same difference no difference.

IE: Its more civilized for me to say that I intend to throw a pie at Rob Anders - than to just show up at a random gathering and throw a snowball at him? According to a muslim, no. According to a Christian, yes.

"War is deception."
Mohammed, Allah's Prophet for the Religion of Peace™

[cancer man]

Terrorists have succeded and won the war on terror and paranoia.

[codetrap]

Originally posted by Antonito

Ah yes, this wonderful paradox. If a muslim is violent, it's because he's muslim. If a Christian is violent, it's because he's acting unChristianly. The no-true-Scotsman defense. Lovely.

Yeah, the internet is funny like that. If you google the titles you can often find the article or similar anyways. But I know, that requires work and all that.

But that sure is 9/10 eh? ;)

Whatever. You go ahead and keep quoting shitty wiki articles as sources and it just gives you the same credibility as Toma. It's obvious you don't put any time into actually reading through the articles you quote, since you didn't catch onto the fact that there's quite the difference between religious and secular violence which you seem to be unaware of. So, feel free to keep throwing out the buzzwords, and keep quoting the lowest common denominator of intelligence on the internet.

Hint: There might be a good reason why virtually every educational institution and media outlet in the world won't use it as a source.

[CUG]

Originally posted by Antonito

Ah yes, this wonderful paradox. If a muslim is violent, it's because he's muslim. If a Christian is violent, it's because he's acting unChristianly. The no-true-Scotsman defense. Lovely.



Yeah, the internet is funny like that. If you google the titles you can often find the article or similar anyways. But I know, that requires work and all that.

But that sure is 9/10 eh? ;) Did you know that if Mohammed consumated his marriage with a 9 year old girl in this day and age, like he did when he was 52 years old himself, he would be considered a pedophile and would register as a sex offender? Keep rocking on catholic priests in your other posts, it's especially hilarious considering the latter.

[turbotrip]

Originally posted by CUG
Did you know that if Mohammed consumated his marriage with a 9 year old girl in this day and age, like he did when he was 52 years old himself, he would be considered a pedophile and would register as a sex offender? Keep rocking on catholic priests in your other posts, it's especially hilarious considering the latter.

LOL in desperate attempts to slander the religion you seem to be jumping all over the place

but anyhow: http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2005/the-young-marriage-of-aishah/

[Antonito]

Originally posted by CUG
Did you know that if Mohammed consumated his marriage with a 9 year old girl in this day and age, like he did when he was 52 years old himself, he would be considered a pedophile and would register as a sex offender? Keep rocking on catholic priests in your other posts, it's especially hilarious considering the latter.
Oh noes, the figurehead of a religion I don't believe in molested a child 1500 years ago. This will surely change my tune with regards to todays Catholic pedophiles :rofl:

[CUG]

Originally posted by turbotrip


LOL in desperate attempts to slander the religion you seem to be jumping all over the place

but anyhow: http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2005/the-young-marriage-of-aishah/ Slander YOUR religion. It says in your book that he had sexual intercourse with a 9 year old girl. That link does nothing for you except prove me right. Ease and logic is far from desperation. There is no desperation required to make damning statements against the book either.. it can be found very easily.

Sorry, I'm kind of tired of dancing around the subject. I don't hate moderates, I hate people who stand up for extremists of any sort, people who when there is irrefutable evidence provided to them, squirm their way out of accepting, or even addressing reality. Instead, you're prodded towards making a "racist" statement, and the islamo-neo-cons try to step on you for that. It's easily identifiable, and it's what happens here.

I have no interest in ANY religion reigning supreme, ESPECIALLY yours.

[turbotrip]

Originally posted by CUG
Slander YOUR religion. It says in your book that he had sexual intercourse with a 9 year old girl.

haha since you seem to be an expert on "MY" book please do show us where it says this

[Seanith]

Originally posted by turbotrip


haha since you seem to be an expert on "MY" book please do show us where it says this

“My mother came to me while I was being swung on a swing between two branches and got me down. My nurse took over and wiped my face with some water and started leading me. When I was at the door she stopped so I could catch my breath. I was brought in while Muhammad was sitting on a bed in our house. My mother made me sit on his lap. The other men and women got up and left. The Prophet consummated his marriage with me in my house when I was nine years old. Neither a camel nor a sheep was slaughtered on behalf of me.”

Tabari IX:131

Narrated Aisha: "The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Alright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.

Sahih Bukhari 5:58:234

I'm assuming these are verses from the Hadiths.

http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/Aisha%27s_Age_of_Consummation

[chowdog]

So.... Mohammad was a child molester.

[turbotrip]

Originally posted by Seanith


“My mother came to me while I was being swung on a swing between two branches and got me down. My nurse took over and wiped my face with some water and started leading me. When I was at the door she stopped so I could catch my breath. I was brought in while Muhammad was sitting on a bed in our house. My mother made me sit on his lap. The other men and women got up and left. The Prophet consummated his marriage with me in my house when I was nine years old. Neither a camel nor a sheep was slaughtered on behalf of me.”

Tabari IX:131

Narrated Aisha: "The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Alright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.

Sahih Bukhari 5:58:234

I'm assuming these are verses from the Hadiths.

http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/Aisha%27s_Age_of_Consummation

ive never heard of this tabari book, but after quickly googling it; scholars say it is not a reputable source
bukhari is, but doesnt say anything about sex at 9
and i wont even begin with the wikiislam website lol

the only completely reputable book in islam is the quran, and good luck finding any of this in there; please do tell us the chapter and verse number when you do

[Antonito]

Originally posted by CUG
islamo-neo-cons Oh I've gotta hear this one

[chowdog]

Originally posted by turbotrip


ive never heard of this tabari book, but after quickly googling it; scholars say it is not a reputable source
bukhari is, but doesnt say anything about sex at 9
and i wont even begin with the wikiislam website lol

the only completely reputable book in islam is the quran, and good luck finding any of this in there; please do tell us the chapter and verse number when you do

It's in the text, dude. The Prophet Mohammad was clearly a monster who lurked in the shadows, preying on these young girls. It is too bad we did not have 'To Catch a Predator' in those days.

[PRELUDEZZZ]

is it true that if the Muslim kill a Christian they can get 70 virgins in heaven?