Will you drive an SRT4 [Archive] - Beyond.ca - Car Forums

Mckenzie

11-25-2003, 10:59 AM

Originally posted by richardchan2002
In the end, it's just a neon. But it's becoming the benchmark by which sport compacts are judged. Everyone is too embarrassed to lose to a neon. I've seen so many threads now where people are trying to soup up their cars to the point where they won't lose to an SRT4 on the street.

If only an automobile maker with good resale value could make something like that...
:werd:

I think the problem with your last statement is that once the cars are mass produced, good resale value does not exist. Look at the RSX Type S. Good blend of performance, luxury and handling in a small package that is easy to tune. However, since they made so many of them, you can pick up a used RSX S now for like 24K. Celica performs ok, but the same problem. Nissan Sentra V-spec....same problem....

Look at the last generation Supra. Performance on par with the SRT 4 and overall a killer car. That one in Vancouver could have sold for $40K, and it was 11 years old and had almost 70K kms on it! There are not many of them around and because of the rarity, the car fetches a higher price. If I am not mistaken, you could buy 1 and a half SRT-4s for that price.

Supply and Demand dictates market prices in a true free market such as the used car industry.

And I will be EMBARRASSED to be seen in a NEON too ..

:werd: I agree. And I would rather be seen in a parked porsche than a speeding neon....:thumbsdow

littledan

11-25-2003, 11:07 AM

if i had an srt-4 i would drive super fast just so no one would see me... :rofl:

C4S

11-25-2003, 11:50 AM

Originally posted by littledan
if i had an srt-4 i would drive super fast just so no one would see me... :rofl:

That is why, Dodge has made the Neon so fast ! :nut:

I read the CARS magazine, their funny comment on a Camaro is " Everyone drives a Camaro fast, it is not because it is fast, because the driver doesn't want to let people see him driving such a ULGY damn car"
And the NEON was rated the " Car of the Year .. worst !" The Camaro was rated the "Most Improved Car of the Year" reason ? they are not selling in Great Bristian anymore ! :rofl: :rofl: :nut:

Ashkente

11-25-2003, 11:56 AM

The only thing that bothers me about it, is that it's FWD. Personally, I don't care what it looks like, barring just being hideous (ie: Lamarossa....:P Poor Supra..) as long as it performs. :thumbsup:

ramminghard

11-25-2003, 12:49 PM

i like the car

link785

11-25-2003, 02:05 PM

Originally posted by rice_eater
then this thread is useless...look...it's a piece of shit domestic that breaks down and looses it's value...we all know domestics are garbage and any rusted beat down honda will be a better choice! Oh and it looks like the inside of someone's ass....

THere...that about sums what most people on this forum think about this car!:whipped:

I personally kind of like the new look of the Neons, the second gens (2000 year+). The SRT-4 is a little funny on the front end, but it's not THAT ugly. I can think of uglier cars, Toyota Prius, Honda Insight, Honda Element, Toyota Echo (sedan version), to name a few.

You are however correct in your statement about this forum. Beyond is pro-Jap import. Anyone who disagrees with this statement is either an idiot, or just plain blind. Yes there are a couple european cars on the forum, and a few domestics, but for the most part, the board is pro-Jap.

I personally will NEVER buy another Japanese car. I've owned 2, and had to do extensive work on both of them. I'm not impressed with "reliability" at all. I've tried domestic, no major problems or anything to complain about, and now I'm looking to maybe try a euro car as well.

Fact is, a LOT of people here (not everyone, don't get me wrong), whether they admit it or not, are jealous of the SRT-4. It's pretty cheap given compareable cars, and it's fast. People who are paying nearly as much for a loaded Civic, or Accord, are just pissed off because their car isn't as fast as the SRT-4.

Sure "it's still a Neon" and "it's a domestic", but ya know what, those statements mean fuck all. What's wrong with it resembling a Neon? What's wrong with domestics? As for the "let's see a Neon get to 500 000km", does anyone here actually plan to drive their car for 500 000km? Does anyone here think that after modding their cars extensivly, they will last that long? No one here drives their car for that long of a time, it's just another useless point that people pull out of their ass to try to justify why a Jap car is better than a domestic :thumbsdow

No one get me wrong tho, I'm not hating on Jap cars, I'm just saying, you shouldn't flame other cars, domestics in particular, just because they don't come from Japan.

Blue Devil 2

11-25-2003, 02:08 PM

Originally posted by ramminghard
i like the car

:werd: I like it too, and I could care less that it's a domestic.

Idratherbsidewayz

11-25-2003, 02:13 PM

Ive always been a domestic hater only because of the 5L engines. The fact that its 2 and some litres, produces enough horsepower, and loads of torque, changes my view on the matter. I would definitely drive this thing just to see the faces of all you civic drivers as i rape you.

hjr

11-25-2003, 02:27 PM

I would drive one, but that is a big leap from would i buy one. No, simply put no. I respect cars that are fast. i dont nessisarily have to like them, but i do respect them.

JAYMEZ

11-25-2003, 03:18 PM

:hitit: with a bat , lol j/j ... I dunno i wish they changed the way Neons look :drama:

szw

11-25-2003, 03:29 PM

has anyone done any headlight conversion for a neon before?

3g4me

11-25-2003, 04:51 PM

You can put all the horsepwer you want in it and drive around all crazy and rip it past me and i will still laugh my ass off at you. Cauz you know what? ITS A NEON. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

aftermarket

11-25-2003, 04:54 PM

Its a decent car. There is worse out there. I had a 97 Neon for three years and drove the shit out of it, and no problems other than regular maintenance and tune-ups.

Sai

11-25-2003, 04:56 PM

its still a neon!!! domestic hater :)

link785

11-25-2003, 06:38 PM

Originally posted by 3g4me
You can put all the horsepwer you want in it and drive around all crazy and rip it past me and i will still laugh my ass off at you. Cauz you know what? ITS A NEON. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Ok, so what is the problem with Neons? :dunno: I personally don't own one, and don't plan to own one, but I don't see what the big deal is? You can make a Civic fast too, but IT'S STILL A CIVIC!!! So what's your point?

Is your point that because it's a Neon, it's not good quality? It's slow? It's paint sucks? You have to express yourself better than "it's still a Neon", because I don't see the problem in that.

ramminghard

11-25-2003, 07:00 PM

Originally posted by 3g4me
You can put all the horsepwer you want in it and drive around all crazy and rip it past me and i will still laugh my ass off at you. Cauz you know what? ITS A NEON. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

And i will laugh at you because i beat you in a neon.

I think the cars look great and are a good performance base for FWD with factory upgrades that don't void warranty.The only thing i would want is a 2 door version(not sure if there is one).

For the price of a new one no other cars compare.

BigYellowMonkey

11-25-2003, 07:14 PM

Originally posted by 3g4me
You can put all the horsepwer you want in it and drive around all crazy and rip it past me and i will still laugh my ass off at you. Cauz you know what? ITS A NEON. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

And you drive an Eclipse. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Fuck, who cares if it's a domestic? Just because a vehicle is an import from across the Pacific, doesn't mean it's going to last longer. Sure, in general, we're told that they last longer. And in a lot of cases they do. But have you driven an SRT-4 and had it fall apart before 500 000 km? I didn't think so. You're all talking out your asses without knowing what the fuck you're talking about.
In some cases, yes, an import is the better choice (ie buying a sienna instead of a caravan), but don't you think the world is "civic nation"-ish enough already? A few more domestic sport compacts on the road isn't going to do any harm. And 30 grand for a 14 second car (very low 14's). Hell, Motor Trend ran a [email protected] mph in one of those. And for 30 grand, what can you get from Honda? A Civic Si? Who the hell wants to drive one of those ugly ass pieces of shit? Ok, they're not that bad looking, and they're quick (for a stock civic, which isn't saying much).
What other cars are available at anywhere near this price that offer the same performance? Not to mention there's the Mopar Stage 1-3 kits for the thing, which put boost up among other things. I've heard the stage 1 kit preserves the warranty, while pushing 19 psi (from a stock 13-15 pounds). All three "stages" of upgrade kits maintain the manufacturer's warranty. I imagine the stage 3 (when it's available) should push the car nicely into the 13 second range without too much trouble.

And I happen to think that they look pretty nice. On the interior, some of it's cheap, but so is the interior of a civic. And the SRT-4 has viper-style front seats, and an autometer boost gauge! The wing/spoiler/hoop/whateveryouwannacallit suits the look of the car without going ricey.

I'm not gonna change the minds of those of you who have already decided domestic=trash. But I'll give you something to think about.

Oh, and if you don't like it? :whocares:

-Biggie!

CalgaryB5

11-25-2003, 07:41 PM

Different strokes for different folks. And who doesn¡¦t want a nice car sitting on their driveway?

link785

11-25-2003, 07:54 PM

Originally posted by BigYellowMonkey
Fuck, who cares if it's a domestic? Just because a vehicle is an import from across the Pacific, doesn't mean it's going to last longer. Sure, in general, we're told that they last longer. And in a lot of cases they do. But have you driven an SRT-4 and had it fall apart before 500 000 km? I didn't think so.

I'm not gonna change the minds of those of you who have already decided domestic=trash. But I'll give you something to think about.

I still hate you, but none the less, good valid points. The only reason Jap imports last longer is because they were built with the absent mindedness of north americans in view. Jap cars can last longer when they're not maintainted properly. I've seen Jap cars drive for 40 000km on the same mineral oil, no oil change, and show NO signs of quitting out. Then I've seen domestics driving 12 000km on the same oil and starting to show serious problems.

It's pretty simple. Jap cars last longer because 95% of all cars in North America are not properly maintained. I personally change my Mobil 1 synthetic oil every 3500km now that it's winter time. How many other people are willing to change their oil every 5 weeks? (that's how much I'm driving at the moment).

Keeping in mind this trend of people not taking proper care of their cars, Jap car makers have built their cars to withstand prolonged mechanical negligence. This why a lot of Hondas and Toyotas can last to 500 000km. It's not because it's a "better" car, it's because it was built differently than a domestic.

Buy a brand new Civic, and a brand new Neon (regular Neon). Do oil changes every 3000km on both cars, and drive both cars equally. Watch how long it takes until the piston rings get too worn to hold compression. Both cars will easily make it over 250 000km, after that, it's all about luck ;)

The whole "domestic sucks" attitude is full of flaws. When you generalize asian imports as lasting longer than domestics, everyone assumes it's because these imports are built with more quality, when this is not the case at all. It's simply the fact that jap imports will take more abuse due to negligent owners.

Oh, and you have another good point, no matter what anyone says, anti-domestic people on this board (and there's a LOT of them) will never change their minds.

finboy

11-25-2003, 11:41 PM

the ignorance in this thread amazes me.

anyone who has seen how well the srt motor is built, will agree it will last more than 250,000 km's.

this isn't your sisters neon, the motor is built to be driven hard with LOTS of power.

and if you break it down, the srt puts out more hp to the wheels than the sti :thumbsup:

Mckenzie

11-25-2003, 11:53 PM

Originally posted by link785

Oh, and you have another good point, no matter what anyone says, anti-domestic people on this board (and there's a LOT of them) will never change their minds.

Did you ever think that some of the so called "anti-domestic" comments are based on personal experiences with domestics?

If so, why should people have to prove why they dont like domestics?

You say that import cars are more reliable because they can go longer without maintenance.....what does that tell you?

That they can take more abuse maybe? You said it yourself. I wouldnt want to buy a car that is fragile and cannot take a little neglect. Who would? I am also interested in this "95% of people dont take care of their cars" statistic too. I couldn't find a source on that one....

I have owned two domestics and have driven and worked on countless domestics ranging from trucks to cars of all makes and years. In my experiences, they are built with cheap parts inside and out that are VERY affordable to replace. Also, In my opinion, the reliability is not on par with the import cars I have driven in, worked on or experienced thus far.

Where is the trade-off? Imports are more expensive to buy and repair in general. Domestics are very affordable to repair and cost less to begin with.

Fact is, a LOT of people here (not everyone, don't get me wrong), whether they admit it or not, are jealous of the SRT-4. It's pretty cheap given compareable cars, and it's fast. People who are paying nearly as much for a loaded Civic, or Accord, are just pissed off because their car isn't as fast as the SRT-4.

You think that people are jealous of this car because their's is not as fast? Is that the only thing about a car that makes it desireable? I wouldn't give two shits if an SRT-4 spanked me at race city in my civic or accord.... I bet a lot of other would not as well... The car is bred for pure performance and comparing it to a civic or accord is not fair because they cater to an entirely different market.

Anyone would be a fool to dispute the performance of the car.

You like domestics and in your experiences imports suck period.

I like imports and in my experiences domestic cars do not have the reliability, build quality or resale value that an import does.

I dont think it is fair to label that everyone who does not like the same cars as you do does not know what they are talking about. Some people have based their opinions on personal experiences and if they dont like a certain type of car then :whocares: . Some may have baseless arguments, but dont hate on those have personally been let down or left on the side of the road by a POS Ford or CHev countless times (That would be me). :angel:

finboy

11-26-2003, 12:02 AM

my jetta stranded me 7 times withing a year and a half.

oh wait, its an import though, it has to be reliable.

link785

11-26-2003, 12:09 AM

Originally posted by Mckenzie
You say that import cars are more reliable because they can go longer without maintenance.....what does that tell you?

That they can take more abuse maybe? You said it yourself. I wouldnt want to buy a car that is fragile and cannot take a little neglect. Who would? I am also interested in this "95% of people dont take care of their cars" statistic too. I couldn't find a source on that one....

You think that people are jealous of this car because their's is not as fast? Is that the only thing about a car that makes it desireable? I wouldn't give two shits if an SRT-4 spanked me at race city in my civic or accord.... I bet a lot of other would not as well... The car is bred for pure performance and comparing it to a civic or accord is not fair because they cater to an entirely different market.

I didn't say they were more reliable. I said, if you neglect maintenance, they will last longer, I agree on that. However, if you take a domestic and an import, drive them both the same, maintain them both the same, they will both last a long time.

All I'm saying is, Jap cars can take more neglect. But if you neglect your car to begin with, then yeah, I guess you could say it's "more reliable". But once you get into neglecting your car, you can no longer say that domestics suck, because you're operating the car outside the manufacturer's guidelines, so it's not really fair to bash on a domestic if it does decide to break down.

I'm not saying EVERYONE doesn't like the SRT-4 because they're jealous. I'm simply saying, people who come with the "domestic sucks" and "it's STILL a Neon!" phrases are nothing but jealous. Someone who says "I don't like the styling, it's not my taste", that's a cool and legitimate reason. "Domestics suck" and "it's STILL a Neon!" have no base, and also are completely rediculous. And yes, I'd say quite a large number of peolpe are jealous of the car's power for the price it costs.

szw

11-26-2003, 12:11 AM

Originally posted by finboy
my jetta stranded me 7 times withing a year and a half.

oh wait, its an import though, it has to be reliable.
VW's are an exception!

gwkwan

11-26-2003, 12:18 AM

i like SRT-4
its cute
its a good car for its price
except its too small for me
pluz its not refind even for me to own

hampstor

11-26-2003, 12:28 AM

The 'it's JUST A NEON' comments remind me of all the people that say 'IT'S ONLY A SENTRA' to my spec v.

Do not judge a car by merely what it's name is, what it is built on, where it was produced but rather judge a car for how it is. It would be like saying a Corvette ZR-1 or a Z06 sucks because it's a chevy or a Supra TT sucks because it's Japanese. Actual arguments are valid and make sense while 'this sucks because it is a dodge' are as ignorant as the Trailer Park Boys (at least Lahey anyway)!

C4S

11-26-2003, 12:33 AM

Spev V is nice ! I will take a Spec-V over a neon .. yeah .. not as fast .. but .. so ?

so how about saying :" It is a Nice Sentra ! " :)

frostyda9

11-26-2003, 12:42 AM

What it comes down to in my mind is that anyone who discriminates against where a car came from is more likely a hypocrite than an "enthusiast". I drive a DA, and I have no shame admitting the most fun I have ever had behind the wheel was in a Corvette. I also don't deny that the most civilized car that I ever got a chance to drive was neither Japanese nor American, it was an XJ6 from England, of all places.

As far as the SRT, I don't like the way it looks. But at the same time, there won't be any excuses when one hands me my ass.

Primer_Drift

11-26-2003, 12:55 AM

I have as much respect for a well designed domestic as for a well designed import. Fact of the matter is both japanese and american made cars can be crap at times, and great at other times. This builds up peoples personal biases for certain manufactures. I think its reasonable to say that when you enjoy driving a car you are a little biased towards the maker of said car... and when you hear of someone bashing your manufacturer you tend to get defensive. In recent years the line between import and domestic has become a little blurred. Cars like the SRT4 pop up in a grey area between the two. Half of the cars we call imports aren't. Honda also builds products in more than 100 manufacturing plants in 33 countries. Think about it, it makes sense to make a car IN the country you are selling it. Besides, designs and manufacturing methods are relatively the same at present. This isnt the world of 1960 anymore.

hampstor

11-26-2003, 01:15 AM

Originally posted by C4S
Spev V is nice ! I will take a Spec-V over a neon .. yeah .. not as fast .. but .. so ?

so how about saying :" It is a Nice Sentra ! " :)

i'd take an SRT-4 over a fully loaded Spec V (about 2 grand difference in price) as the cars have virtually identical specs and from what i have seen of the interior, the SRT-4's fit and finish appears better. However, I had a base Spec V ($22000) so ill just keep with it :)

link785

11-26-2003, 02:05 AM

Originally posted by hampstor
The 'it's JUST A NEON' comments remind me of all the people that say 'IT'S ONLY A SENTRA' to my spec v.

Do not judge a car by merely what it's name is, what it is built on, where it was produced but rather judge a car for how it is. It would be like saying a Corvette ZR-1 or a Z06 sucks because it's a chevy or a Supra TT sucks because it's Japanese. Actual arguments are valid and make sense while 'this sucks because it is a dodge' are as ignorant as the Trailer Park Boys (at least Lahey anyway)!

:werd: Exactly what I was getting at :thumbsup:

Oh, and for the record, I have never owned a Chrysler :)

4wheeldrift

11-26-2003, 07:55 AM

Originally posted by finboy
the ignorance in this thread amazes me.

anyone who has seen how well the srt motor is built, will agree it will last more than 250,000 km's.

this isn't your sisters neon, the motor is built to be driven hard with LOTS of power.

and if you break it down, the srt puts out more hp to the wheels than the sti :thumbsup: Yes, the motor built like a brick shithouse, but what about the rest of the car? Will the tranny handle 400hp after you slap on one of these stage 4 kits? How long will the chassis (that was designed for a 140hp motor) last when its taking the abuse of 400hp+ hard launches? And when (not if, because inevitably you are going to break something) the tranny or something else lets go, will chrysler honor the warranty? I highly doubt it. Chrysler has THE WORST reputation for honoring any warranty claim, they will find any way to dance around the issue without actually fixing anything. And then there is the chassis of the car. The chassis on the new neon is like a limp noodle, and they didn't do a damn thing to it to try and make it stiffer. All the chassis flex comprimises the suspension geometry making the car not corner they way it. Then they throw nitrogen shocks and stiffer springs on it and bam! you've got a performance suspension (according to chrysler). But you can't get any camber or toe out of the front end, you are stuck with 0 camber from the factory and no way to adjust it. So now your import fighter neon understeers badly at the limit, though it gets power down well. If it wasn't for the insanely grippy rubber they through on it, the SRT-4 wouldn't have put out nearly the skidpad and slalom numbers it did.

This is why I'm not a big fan of the SRT-4. Yes, its a result of my personal bias towards turning. I know that you can fix some things with aftermarket parts, but if you're going to be racing the car with all this motor power (thanks to the mopar stage kits) and nothing done to the suspension, the weaknesses of the stock setup are going to become glaringly obvious in a real hurry. And if you are driving the car in a stock class, you've got to live with all the comprimises, good or bad. Its got nothing to do with the fact that its a neon, though the fact that you have to deal with chrysler service is a BIG negative point against it, IMO. Instead of trying to produce a well balanced car, some bigwig at chrysler said "We need something to take on the imports. What can we do?" Some other bigwig: "Hey, what was that movie, about the illegal street racing? Fast and fucked up or something? Teenagers must not like turning or something. I bet if we refer to it as being "phat' and use lots of street racing examples in our adds it'll sell" Bigwig 1: "Yeah, you're probably right. Lets make it fast in a straight line, we'll sell zillions!"

ae1969

11-26-2003, 10:20 PM

Bottom line.

SRT-4 has turned all your lives upside down.

A neon will beat you on the street...........

:eek:

4wheeldrift

11-26-2003, 10:25 PM

Originally posted by ae1969

SRT-4 has turned all your lives upside down.

A neon will beat you on the street...........
Oh my god, you mean there is something out there faster than my car?!?? What have I been doing with my life? The sky is falling, the sky is falling.... :rolleyes:

speedracer

11-26-2003, 11:30 PM

Originally posted by 4wheeldrift
[B] Yes, the motor built like a brick shithouse, but what about the rest of the car? Will the tranny handle 400hp after you slap on one of these stage 4 kits?

Hmm factory designed for Stage 4. Something aboiut factory endorsement gives me quite a bit of assurance.

I fail to see the argument? Any car has problems once more power is added... A good example would be your beloved wrx tranny which has a weak tranny that is well known.

Stage 4 specs hasn't even been released offically yet - It may change. So your telling me also something like Toyata's in house team TRD when they have a supercharger kit for a model that it would be a bad option?

How long will the chassis (that was designed for a 140hp motor) last when its taking the abuse of 400hp+ hard launches? And when (not if, because inevitably you are going to break something) the tranny or something else lets go, will chrysler honor the warranty?

Good point... I don't see many cars able to handle abuse either. And your point?

.... And then there is the chassis of the car. The chassis on the new neon is like a limp noodle, and they didn't do a damn thing to it to try and make it stiffer. All the chassis flex comprimises the suspension geometry making the car not corner they way it.

Someone is bitter that the top finish and overall for Group 5 SCCA Pro Rally was an SRT4. Placing 1st and 2nd (2 entries).

Oh right 140 hp SX 2.0 Chasis must be designed horrible as well but also won it's class in SCCA Pro Rally

So much for a limp noodle...

Then they throw nitrogen shocks and stiffer springs on it and bam! you've got a performance suspension (according to chrysler). But you can't get any camber or toe out of the front end, you are stuck with 0 camber from the factory and no way to adjust it. So now your import fighter neon understeers badly at the limit, though it gets power down well. If it wasn't for the insanely grippy rubber they through on it, the SRT-4 wouldn't have put out nearly the skidpad and slalom numbers it did.

I fail to see the comparison when new car designs from many manufacturer limit camber changes. In either case a moot point since factory specs have camber allowances. Again your point?

So far becasue a factory is:
endorseing performance parts - >bad
factory race parts -> bad

This is why I'm not a big fan of the SRT-4. Yes, its a result of my personal bias towards turning. I know that you can fix some things with aftermarket parts, but if you're going to be racing the car with all this motor power (thanks to the mopar stage kits) and nothing done to the suspension, the weaknesses of the stock setup are going to become glaringly obvious in a real hurry.

So your not a fan - it just mean it's not for you.

1 Lap of America - Stage 1 Kit SRT4 (w/ Quaife LSD)
8th overall

I'd say the engineering team has done a good job and then the Overall Title in SCCA Pro Rally in Group 5... No blown engines, no damaged trannies...

GT2NV

11-26-2003, 11:42 PM

id drive it, for the price its pretty unbeatable..:burnout:

4wheeldrift

11-27-2003, 08:08 AM

Originally posted by speedracer

Hmm factory designed for Stage 4. Something aboiut factory endorsement gives me quite a bit of assurance.

I fail to see the argument? Any car has problems once more power is added... A good example would be your beloved wrx tranny which has a weak tranny that is well known.

Stage 4 specs hasn't even been released offically yet - It may change. So your telling me also something like Toyata's in house team TRD when they have a supercharger kit for a model that it would be a bad option? Like I said, the motor is built like a brick shithouse, so why bring this up? I said the motors would probably last, so what is the point of this? But is TRD offering a warranty on their supercharger kits? Not as far as I know. Everyone points to the chrysler warranty as being a big plus, but from what i've seen, heard and experienced of chrysler warranties you are as likely as not to get your warranty cancelled the second you break something anyway. So much for that. You've got 400hp and no warranty, just like everyone else who modifies their car.

Originally posted by speedracer

Good point... I don't see many cars able to handle abuse either. And your point?/B] Well, lets see. The Neon ACR isn't to go more 6 months with hard use without breaking motor mounts and destroying hubs, I can't think of too many performance cars that badly under-engineered. And that is a car that is supposed to be a race machine.

Originally posted by speedracer
[B]
Someone is bitter that the top finish and overall for Group 5 SCCA Pro Rally was an SRT4. Placing 1st and 2nd (2 entries).

Oh right 140 hp SX 2.0 Chasis must be designed horrible as well but also won it's class in SCCA Pro Rally

So much for a limp noodle... Well, lets see here. First, its awful easy to finish one-two when you basically have no competition ;) Secondly, group five is TWO WHEEL DRIVE OPEN! There is very little left of the factory suspension left on either of those cars, and the chassis has been stiffened to within an inch of its life with seam welding and a 12 point roll cage. ANY CAR is going to be rigid after that, and its surprisingly easy to fix the weaknesses of a stock car when you can more or less do whatever the hell you want to it. I'll be impressed when I see a totally stock neon with a bare minimum cage win group 5 against 20 other cars ;)

Originally posted by speedracer

I fail to see the comparison when new car designs from many manufacturer limit camber changes. In either case a moot point since factory specs have camber allowances. Again your point?

So far becasue a factory is:
endorseing performance parts - >bad
factory race parts -> bad My point is the SRT-4 HAS NO ABILITY FOR CAMBER CHANGE. The new neons do not have a spec for more camber, because you can't get any without slotting the strut towers. How many performance cars can you think of that you can't get camber out of, even if its just a little bit? You could get a crapload of camber out of the ACR stock, if the SRT-4 is made for competition, why does it not have the same ability?

Originally posted by speedracer

So your not a fan - it just mean it's not for you.

1 Lap of America - Stage 1 Kit SRT4 (w/ Quaife LSD)
8th overall

I'd say the engineering team has done a good job and then the Overall Title in SCCA Pro Rally in Group 5... No blown engines, no damaged trannies... I already said the motors were good, apparently the tranny is too. What about the rest of the car? Despite what everyone seems to think, there is more to the SRT-4 than just the damn motor. Yes, it has a robust motor and transmission. But the rest of the car is really rather lacklustre.

You keep mentioning the 1 lap of america car, while neglecting to mention the car had an ACR suspension swap. If the stock suspension on the neon is so good, why do they need to go back to the last generation for suspension components?

Yes, I don't like the SRT-4. And there's a lot of reasons why. Just because everyone seems to think the car is the shit while I think it is just shit doesn't mean I'm not entitled to my opinion, and I know enough about the car to put forth an educated argument as to why I don't like them. If the car is so damn great, how come every performance magazine that reviews the SRT-4 spends so much time on how good the motor is and glosses over everything else? Sport Compact Car spent a good 10 pages doing a total teardown of the motor, yet in their review for car of the year of all the time they spent discussing the motor and power delivery, handling was done in less than a paragraph. If the car is so well balanced, why would they have to do that?

The car is selling well, but chrysler could have done much better if they had spent more time figuring out why people like imports so much. And its not because imports are blistering fast in a straight line.

I doubt either of us is going to convince the other is wrong Brando, so I'm not going to bother checking this thread again. Everyone may now resume their regularly scheduled worshipping of the uber-neon.

5.9 R/T

11-27-2003, 11:12 AM

Originally posted by Mckenzie

When was the last time you saw a neon at 500 000km?

When was the last time you saw a honda go 500 000km?

I've seen several domestics over the years go this far, but never an import. After about 300 000k an import is way to expensive to maintain and they just end up in the junk yard anyways.

This was the only post I read in this really really pointless thread, and will just assume that the rest of the posts are as asinine as this one.

ramminghard

11-27-2003, 11:35 AM

i think dodge just wanted to get people talking about them. They did a good job.

And just because it is an import doesn't mean its more reliable. My old 4cyl S10 had 270 000KM on it on original everything. I beat the hell out of it and besides normal maintenance there was not one problem. It still had the original clutch. The truck was used to haul large amounts of dirt and tow things too. Domestics can be reliable too.

Mckenzie

11-27-2003, 11:43 AM

Originally posted by 5.9 R/T

When was the last time you saw a honda go 500 000km?

I've seen several domestics over the years go this far, but never an import. After about 300 000k an import is way to expensive to maintain and they just end up in the junk yard anyways.

This was the only post I read in this really really pointless thread, and will just assume that the rest of the posts are as asinine as this one.

I guess this is an asinine post because I am just pulling this out of my ass right? What.....just a figment of my imagination again....?? I guess because YOU have never seen an Honda go over 500 000km means it has never happened right? If you actually read the words in my sentence you would see the word NEON jump out at you. I never said that a domestic wont go over 500 000km did I? I was specifically refering to Neon. Thanks for the hasty conclusion and completely misinterpreting my argument. :rolleyes:

In fact, I guy I worked with in the summer owned a mid 90s ish Oldsmobile Acheiva that had rolled over and was at 130 000ish kms again. Well lets see here....that would be over a MILLION kms on a domestic.

So you turn the argument around and tell me to prove that a honda has gone over 500 000km. I was only talking about neons, not every domestic....

Go walk into A1 Honda Auto Body and look at the guage cluster for an older G1 integra. I beleive last time I was in there it was somewhere in the 650 000km range.

My friend's aunt has a 91 accord that has 525 000km on it.

Ther was a legend taxi cab in Chicago that was bought back by the local honda dealership. HOw many miles? over 415 000 miles. That is defenitaly over 500 000km.

There are countless G1 legends driving around with over 300 000 miles on the orginal engine and drivetrtain.

But I guess this entire thread is asinine and so is everyone else because you havent seen a honda go over 500 000km. :dunno:

Mckenzie

11-27-2003, 12:05 PM

Originally posted by ramminghard
i think dodge just wanted to get people talking about them. They did a good job.

And just because it is an import doesn't mean its more reliable. My old 4cyl S10 had 270 000KM on it on original everything. I beat the hell out of it and besides normal maintenance there was not one problem. It still had the original clutch. The truck was used to haul large amounts of dirt and tow things too. Domestics can be reliable too.

Thats funny. My sister bought a 91ish s10 with the 4.3 and the guy who sold it to her had 8 pages of dealer repair records, including a BRAND NEW engine (not rebuilt) at only about 190 000km. That poor guy repaired everything on that truck. It was at 310 000km and it was still kinda fallling apart.

It must depend on what day of the week it is made on.

1badPT

11-27-2003, 12:27 PM

Would I drive one?

Hell ya! :thumbsup: I'm thinking of one for my next car.

What a weird thread. :drama: Cars are as much preference as the clothing you wear, so it weird to see someone trash one car manufacturer or another (or even the nation where the cars were designed :dunno: ).

Oh well, there are a lot of nice cars out there, and if you limit yourself to one manufacturer or one continent, you're only gonna hold yourself back.

rice_eater

11-27-2003, 12:34 PM

i couldn't care less about this pissing contest but here's my personal experience...i test drove a 95 neon with 200k and the compression was like new...i have a 95 neon with 170k and it drives perfect, with no problems to talk about. I have a 96 that i bagged the crap out of for almost 2 years. Again never had a problem with it either...before i bought the neon i had a Dodge Spirit with over 270k on it...I couldn't have lucked out 4 times could i? I totally agree with whoever said that if you take care of any car it will last just as long as any other car out there, be it import or domestic

speedracer

11-27-2003, 12:38 PM

Originally posted by 4wheeldrift
.. but from what i've seen, heard and experienced of chrysler warranties you are as likely as not to get your warranty cancelled the second you break something anyway. So much for that. You've got 400hp and no warranty, just like everyone else who modifies their car.

Warranty is dealt with from the dealer level. (then again you have to love competition warranty from Chrysler)

Still I don't see a manufacturer back a person when clearly it's abuse.

MOPAR parts have their own warranty (just like TRD)

Well, lets see. The Neon ACR isn't to go more 6 months with hard use without breaking motor mounts and destroying hubs, I can't think of too many performance cars that badly under-engineered. And that is a car that is supposed to be a race machine.

We are talking about the current generation not the last since it's different? Which has been reengineered with no more broken motor mounts.

As for the hub the Integra Type R also had the same issues but it falls under maintenace just like the ACR. The ACR hub has been designed for 6 hours of endurance racing. Your point?

Even then in SSC is dominated by neons from 95 to 99 (until Trunk kits were introduced)

Well, lets see here. First, its awful easy to finish one-two when you basically have no competition ;) Secondly, group five is TWO WHEEL DRIVE OPEN! There is very little left of the factory suspension left on either of those cars, and the chassis has been stiffened to within an inch of its life with seam welding and a 12 point roll cage. ANY CAR is going to be rigid after that, and its surprisingly easy to fix the weaknesses of a stock car when you can more or less do whatever the hell you want to it.

A win is a win. If no manufaturer wishes to step up who's fault is that?

Since G5 doesn't mean much then G2 (first place as well)
14 1 G2 4 143 Chris Whiteman / Mike Paulin 2:13:29

I'll be impressed when I see a totally stock neon with a bare minimum cage win group 5 against 20 other cars ;)

This is the same argument with trunk kits. I see nothing special in disabling a vehicle from it's competitors becasue the competitor manufacture is unwilling to produce a better car for competition.

My point is the SRT-4 HAS NO ABILITY FOR CAMBER CHANGE. The new neons do not have a spec for more camber, because you can't get any without slotting the strut towers. How many performance cars can you think of that you can't get camber out of, even if its just a little bit? You could get a crapload of camber out of the ACR stock, if the SRT-4 is made for competition, why does it not have the same ability?

Incorrect. the 95, 96 ACR's were adjustable straight from the factory. But after that 97-99, 2001 non adjustable from the factory - not to say there wasn't a supp manual to cure the problem. :)

From what I understand a supplement manual will be available for the SRT4. But their focus is no longer with SCCA track racing or Solo 2.

You keep mentioning the 1 lap of america car, while neglecting to mention the car had an ACR suspension swap. If the stock suspension on the neon is so good, why do they need to go back to the last generation for suspension components?

Last generation? that would be a bit hard since they don't share parts...
o Becasue of adjustability. (note this is 2001 ACR struts)

I doubt either of us is going to convince the other is wrong Brando, so I'm not going to bother checking this thread again. Everyone may now resume their regularly scheduled worshipping of the uber-neon.
I'm pretty educated on the car as well for some bias reason too :D

lol I'm not trying converting anyone just pointing facts for the other side. :angel:
:closed:

1badPT

11-27-2003, 12:53 PM

Why bother though? People who are gonna hate, are gonna hate regardless of facts. Their minds are made up - just blow their doors off and thank them for being close-minded :eek:

4wheeldrift

11-27-2003, 01:18 PM

Okay I lied, I am posting in here again, because I enjoy a good argument with brando :D

Originally posted by speedracer

Warranty is dealt with from the dealer level. (then again you have to love competition warranty from Chrysler)

Still I don't see a manufacturer back a person when clearly it's abuse.

MOPAR parts have their own warranty (just like TRD)Who decides what constitutes abuse, exactly? By a lot of manufacturers definitions drag racing, solo 2 and rally are definetly abuse. Likewise modifying your car in many cases constitutes abuse, although they have to be able to prove a modified part was responsible for the problem before they can deny you coverage. If this is taken care of at the dealer level, it doesn't really help you at all.

Originally posted by speedracer

Even then in SSC is dominated by neons from 95 to 99 (until Trunk kits were introduced)Why is that? Because the ACR is actually a good car. It wouldn't be as popular in club racing as it is if it wasn't. Unfortunately, the SRT-4 shares too few chromosomes with it.

Originally posted by speedracer

A win is a win. If no manufaturer wishes to step up who's fault is that?

Since G5 doesn't mean much then G2 (first place as well)
14 1 G2 4 143 Chris Whiteman / Mike Paulin 2:13:29

This is the same argument with trunk kits. I see nothing special in disabling a vehicle from it's competitors becasue the competitor manufacture is unwilling to produce a better car for competition.

For group 2, once again its because the ACR is actually quite a decent car, because like the integra Type R chrysler identified some of the areas that need improvement over the base model and took care of it. As for manufacturers not stepping up its no one's fault, but to use that data as a valid point is a bit ridiculous. It's a lot like trying to use the results of a one make race to claim how much better one car is than another ;)

Originally posted by speedracer

From what I understand a supplement manual will be available for the SRT4. But their focus is no longer with SCCA track racing or Solo 2.And this is why it sucks ;)

Originally posted by speedracer

I'm pretty educated on the car as well for some bias reason too :D

lol I'm not trying converting anyone just pointing facts for the other side. :angel:
:closed: Ok, now I'm really done. I'm pro-ACR and anti-every other neon ;)

3g4me

11-27-2003, 01:41 PM

Neon is a girls car, it was built for good gas milage and thats it. It's ugly and has no business in the sport compact world. And i dont know why half of you people are getting all huffed up about a car you probably cant afford anyway. :guns:

googe

11-27-2003, 01:43 PM

Originally posted by finboy

and if you break it down, the srt puts out more hp to the wheels than the sti :thumbsup:

lies :D

1badPT

11-27-2003, 02:00 PM

Originally posted by 3g4me
Neon is a girls car
no it isn't

It's ugly and has no business in the sport compact world.
Says who?

And i dont know why half of you people are getting all huffed up about a car you probably cant afford anyway. :guns:
Its only $27K - that's why its so cool - so much performance for so little money, and a warranty to boot.

PS - 4G63 > 420A :whipped: :D

3g4me

11-27-2003, 02:06 PM

Fair enough i just personally dont like the looks. I have allways dissliked neons, i have no beefs with domestics just neons, thats why i keep bitching about this car. Oh and I say its UGLY.

1badPT

11-27-2003, 02:24 PM

No worries. I'll admit when I was shopping for a used car 2 years ago, the sales rep started walking me towards a neon, and I totally wasn't even considering it (it was a 1st gen neon). So I understand the whole anti-neon sentiment. The only thing I could think of when someone said neon was those stupid commercials (when the neon first came out) where the car drove up and said "hi". :nut:

The SRT-4 is so much more than just a neon though. The whole idea of the car is cheap speed, so they took their cheapest car and put a great engine and suspension in it. All the money spent on that car is for performance - no comfort options whatsoever (hand crank windows anyone?). If you are looking for something classy or great looks this car isn't it. If you want something thats gonna bury cars costing double its price, we have a winner.

3g4me

11-27-2003, 02:33 PM

I couldnt have said it better.;)

1badPT

11-27-2003, 02:44 PM

That's why I typed it for ya ;) :eek: :closed:

5.9 R/T

11-27-2003, 07:07 PM

Originally posted by Mckenzie

I guess this is an asinine post because I am just pulling this out of my ass right? What.....just a figment of my imagination again....?? I guess because YOU have never seen an Honda go over 500 000km means it has never happened right? If you actually read the words in my sentence you would see the word NEON jump out at you. I never said that a domestic wont go over 500 000km did I? I was specifically refering to Neon. Thanks for the hasty conclusion and completely misinterpreting my argument. :rolleyes:

In fact, I guy I worked with in the summer owned a mid 90s ish Oldsmobile Acheiva that had rolled over and was at 130 000ish kms again. Well lets see here....that would be over a MILLION kms on a domestic.

So you turn the argument around and tell me to prove that a honda has gone over 500 000km. I was only talking about neons, not every domestic....

Go walk into A1 Honda Auto Body and look at the guage cluster for an older G1 integra. I beleive last time I was in there it was somewhere in the 650 000km range.

My friend's aunt has a 91 accord that has 525 000km on it.

Ther was a legend taxi cab in Chicago that was bought back by the local honda dealership. HOw many miles? over 415 000 miles. That is defenitaly over 500 000km.

There are countless G1 legends driving around with over 300 000 miles on the orginal engine and drivetrtain.

But I guess this entire thread is asinine and so is everyone else because you havent seen a honda go over 500 000km. :dunno:

Blah blah blah. Just because neither of us have seen a neon go 500+ k doesn't mean it hasn't happened. Really, if you're going to argue don't undermine your own points.

Originally posted by 3g4me
Neon is a girls car, it was built for good gas milage and thats it. It's ugly and has no business in the sport compact world. And i dont know why half of you people are getting all huffed up about a car you probably cant afford anyway. :guns:

You drive a 3G eclipse!?! Get a real car, then you can insult other cars. :thumbsup: