Ketosis

[SScott]

What do you guys know about it?

I have a buddy who induces ketosis by limiting his sugar/starch intake (carbs) so that his body (correct me if im wrong) burns fat for energy.

I've read a lot of conflicting articles online debating if it is a health risk or not.

Any incite?

[max_boost]

lint has been burning a shit load of fat. Dropped 25lbs in like 6 weeks I believe and it's probably 95% fat he's been losing with no cardio! haha

1000 calories a day, 180grams of protein, 30 grams of carbs and can't remember how much fat.

Hopefully he can explain it in greater detail.

I think Darkane knows a lot on this subject too.

In short, your body does not need carbs, it can adapt. Not a health risk AFAIK.

FYI, lint is my master, taught me everything I know about lifting and eating haha :thumbsup:

[SScott]

Originally posted by max_boost
lint has been burning a shit load of fat. Dropped 25lbs in like 6 weeks I believe and it's probably 95% fat he's been losing with no cardio! haha

1000 calories a day, 180grams of protein, 30 grams of carbs and can't remember how much fat.

Hopefully he can explain it in greater detail.

I think Darkane knows a lot on this subject too.

In short, your body does not need carbs, it can adapt. Not a health risk AFAIK.

FYI, lint is my master, taught me everything I know about lifting and eating haha :thumbsup:

Yeah, thats just a low carb, low calorie high protein, but im talking like less than 5g of carbs a day and no sugar whatsoever.

He's got some funky ass breath from being on ketosis too!

[benyl]

Isn't that basically the Atkins diet?

[j.garner]

You should look into the anabolic diet heres a link kind of along the lines of what you want to do maybe ive been on it for about three months and have droped alot of bf without loosing to much size. heres a link. http://stronglifts.com/anabolic-diet-101-the-definite-anabolic-diet-guide/

[trdjce10]

A bit OT...Correct me if I'm wrong (no expert here), but wouldn't you feel like crap on a no carb diet? From what I've read you will burn fat, but will probably lose muscles at the same time.

How about carb cycling? Couple of low carb days follow by a high carb day. I have read about it, and seems to work great regardless if you want to gain or lose.

[GQBalla]

Originally posted by benyl
Isn't that basically the Atkins diet?

basically yes, and ketosis is used to treat autistic children.

its pretty nuts though.

i went on it for 5 days and i lost 5 pounds yet managed to still push the same weight so i don't think i lost muscle but i can't actually confirm.

and it takes your body 2-3 days to get into the state of ketosis.

LOL so i really was on it for 2 days and lost 5 pounds.

it just got me too sick.

right now im not eating carbs after 7pm.

seems to be doin the trick


Originally posted by trdjce10
A bit OT...Correct me if I'm wrong (no expert here), but wouldn't you feel like crap on a no carb diet? From what I've read you will burn fat, but will probably lose muscles at the same time.

How about carb cycling? Couple of low carb days follow by a high carb day. I have read about it, and seems to work great regardless if you want to gain or lose.

Yes, i felt like complete ass.

No energy for the first couple days than once your body started to switch to burning fats for energy you feel normal again.

cept for me it was really hard on my body and i had the worst stomach pains in my life.

[JfuckinC]

lol i should hit up a state of ketosis, i just started back at the gym and need to lose a good 30lbs. :drool:

[GQBalla]

Originally posted by JfuckinC
lol i should hit up a state of ketosis, i just started back at the gym and need to lose a good 30lbs. :drool:

definitely will work, but wow do your meals become boring....

EVERYTHING has carbs ahaha

[max_boost]

Yeah I can do low carb but it's not even that low, more like no carbs after 8pm hahaha or else I will feel like shit and have zero energy.

Right now I'm on a dirty bulk so I'm carbing it up. Will cut later.

180lbs here I come. I want to look like 2EFNFAST but with the legs too. hahahhaa

[lint]

Originally posted by max_boost
Hopefully he can explain it in greater detail.


nah

[civic_rida]

Curious what a daily meal plan looks like for this.

1000 calories a day, 180grams of protein, 30 grams of carbs and can't remember how much fat


You need carbs post workout.

[GQBalla]

Originally posted by civic_rida
Curious what a daily meal plan looks like for this.

1000 calories a day, 180grams of protein, 30 grams of carbs and can't remember how much fat


You need carbs post workout.

no you dont...the idea of ketosis is that after your body goes into the state of ketosis your body switches to fats to use as energy, not carbs

[lint]

Originally posted by civic_rida
You need carbs post workout.

But you don't need squats at all...

[civic_rida]

You need to consume enough carbohydrates to promote a substantial insulin release. Insulin is the hormone responsible for shuttling carbohydrates and amino acids into the muscle. In doing this, carbohydrate resynthesis is accelerated and protein balance becomes positive, leading to rapid repair of the muscle tissue.

[lint]

Originally posted by civic_rida
You need to consume enough carbohydrates to promote a substantial insulin release. Insulin is the hormone responsible for shuttling carbohydrates and amino acids into the muscle. In doing this, carbohydrate resynthesis is accelerated and protein balance becomes positive, leading to rapid repair of the muscle tissue.

Is the OP talking about building muscle?

[Oz-]

-Use ketostix to gauge your ketosis state
-no carbs is easy once you are in ketosis
-first 3 days you are in a bit of a fog
-I carb;'ed up every week (smaller meal) or 2 weeks with a bigger carb up day. Didn't lose muscle and gained strength
-learn to enjoy pho with no noodles and just broth with double beef...haha
-eat a ton of fish/green veggies
-fish oils are your friend during this
-you need to stay hydrated
-you will have tin can smelling breath
-your piss will really stink too

On a carb up day, I could easily gain back 15 lbs of water weight. Which was gone in a day or two. First week is all water weight being lost.

[JordanEG6]

Originally posted by GQBalla


basically yes, and ketosis is used to treat autistic children.

its pretty nuts though.

i went on it for 5 days and i lost 5 pounds yet managed to still push the same weight so i don't think i lost muscle but i can't actually confirm.

and it takes your body 2-3 days to get into the state of ketosis.


Doesn't it take like 3 weeks or something for the body to conform into Ketosis?

[Oz-]

Originally posted by JordanEG6


Doesn't it take like 3 weeks or something for the body to conform into Ketosis?

No

If you are on point with your diet, you could get into ketosis in as little as 48-72 hours. Get ketostix to find out.

[civic_rida]

So this is for just burning fat?
I'll be competing in April how does this work for a pre contest diet?

[Redlined_8000]

pre contest diet? well it depends how much fat you have to loose, but you will probably start like 8 -10 weeks out depending. Do lots of low intensity fat burning cardio too, it really helps along with keto.

[SScott]

So the consensus is that it isn't bad for you?

[GQBalla]

no

[Darkane]

Originally posted by Oz-
-Use ketostix to gauge your ketosis state
-no carbs is easy once you are in ketosis
-first 3 days you are in a bit of a fog
-I carb;'ed up every week (smaller meal) or 2 weeks with a bigger carb up day. Didn't lose muscle and gained strength
-learn to enjoy pho with no noodles and just broth with double beef...haha
-eat a ton of fish/green veggies
-fish oils are your friend during this
-you need to stay hydrated
-you will have tin can smelling breath
-your piss will really stink too

On a carb up day, I could easily gain back 15 lbs of water weight. Which was gone in a day or two. First week is all water weight being lost.

I was in ketosis for 6 months last year.

It's possible to stay in ketosis and have just about unlimited green veggies. But no peas, they can bump you out.

Everything Oz said is true there. You don't lose muscle on keto diet, you lose muscle if overall calories are to low.

People Keto bulk too.

If you've never ever been on a low/no carb diet before, then yes, it 'can' take up to 2 weeks for your body to be fully adapted to using Ketones as energy. Fat is broken down and coverted in Ketones and that is now the bodies go to energy source. But you can reach ketosis in 2-3 days.

I've even bumped myself out for 6 hours before. Taking carbs pre-workout with amino's, spike the insulin, Drive the nutrients in during the workout and a couple hours after I'm back into ketosis.

It's not dangerous at all.

One thing I would caution is this: Protein MUST be high and it's a good idea to start with a 50/50 protein/fat split.

This is a very easy and common start for anybody. 250g pro/110g fat = 2000cals. 1000cals protein, and 990cals of fat.

The reason protein must be high is the brain can effectively run on 70% ketones but the remaining 30% must be glucose. The body can convert protein into glucose via gluconeogenesis<sp>. So dietary intake of protein must be high enough to satisfy the brain and retain muscle. If not you will catabolize your own muscle supply.

[Darkane]

Oh and in case anyone was wondering the preferred post workout drink during Ketosis is:

50g Whey Isolate
30G glutamine
15-20G Glycine (gotta work up to this amount, can cause stomach discomfort/runs)
5g Leucine

Creatine optional.

The glutamine/glycine replenish glycogen 'almost' as efficiently as carbs.

The glycine also has a real nice secondary effect of reducing cortisol which is crucial if we're training at night.

[Oz-]

Anyone that is looking at trying this, just to be safe on your thyroid and to err on the side of caution. Try to run this at around the 12 week mark and cycle into a carb diet for 2-3 weeks. When you get back into ketosis, you will be ready to go into the next zone of weight loss.

[GQBalla]

Originally posted by Oz-
Anyone that is looking at trying this, just to be safe on your thyroid and to err on the side of caution. Try to run this at around the 12 week mark and cycle into a carb diet for 2-3 weeks. When you get back into ketosis, you will be ready to go into the next zone of weight loss.

or you can be like me and just last 5 days AHHAHA

[trdjce10]

Big thumbs up for people who tried the diet and stayed on.

So I guess ground beef, whole egg, cheese, bacon, chicken, steak, etc. Sounds good at first, but looks kinda rough after a while. :D

[Tarrantula]

Originally posted by trdjce10
looks kinda rough after a while. :D

looks rough right now :(

[r0g3r]

how long can we be on this diet for? any individual concerns for people with certain health issues (like high cholesterol or hypoglycemia)?

thanks

[sallinger]

where can you get the ketostixs? i started a low carb high fat protein diet and wondering if my body is in ketosis.

[Oz-]

Originally posted by sallinger
where can you get the ketostixs? i started a low carb high fat protein diet and wondering if my body is in ketosis. Pharmacy, they normally have them where they keep most of their diabetic stuff. Walmart has the best price, $8 for 100. Ask the pharmacist if you can't find them on the shelf.

[Graham_A_M]

I may be mis-informed, but when I was diagnosed with my Type 2 diabetes: I was informed on the actual (natural occuring) process that diabetics go through when cells cant take in sugars from the blood stream.
Instead they break down the fat since its the only source of energy they have access to. Problem is: this whole Ketosis process produces several harmful effects on your body, some are very severe.

Is that correct or can anybody clarify that?

[VaN_HaMMeRSTeiN]

Originally posted by Graham_A_M
I may be mis-informed, but when I was diagnosed with my Type 2 diabetes: I was informed on the actual (natural occuring) process that diabetics through, when cells cant take in sugars from the blood stream.
Instead they break down the fat since its the only source of energy they have access to. Problem is: this whole Ketosis process produces several harmful effects on your body, some are very severe.

Is that correct or can anybody clarify that?


So far the general consensus is that it doesn't, however I could see that being in-correct. Grantid that I have very little knowledge in this kind of thing, but starving yourself of an essential nutrient for the sake of weight loss seems kind of eating disorder-ish to me....

Edit to throw in bulemia faces to fit the subject. :barf: :barf: :barf:

[Redlined_8000]

Originally posted by VaN_HaMMeRSTeiN



So far the general consensus is that it doesn't, however I could see that being in-correct. Grantid that I have very little knowledge in this kind of thing, but starving yourself of an essential nutrient for the sake of weight loss seems kind of eating disorder-ish to me....

Edit to throw in bulemia faces to fit the subject. :barf: :barf: :barf:

LOL starving ourselves of an essential nutrient. Tell me about these essential carbohydrates, im interested. And yes of course changing pro/fat/carb ratio's to achieve a certain goal is an eating disorder :rolleyes:

@Graham_A_M

I have never read any negative effects like that. All I can say is that millions of people have done keto diets (bodybuilders used it beginning around mid 1900's) and any evidence of harmful effects have not been seen IME. It may be different for your condition... I am unsure about that.

EDIT: Also just some food for thought. Im pretty sure Inuits eat a keto diet all winter, and in summer get to eat a small amount of carbs like berries ect. Then back to keto for winter... They do this their whole life.

[Oz-]

Post by Future over on the ironaddicts.com board

http://www.ironaddicts.com/forums/showpost.php?p=304446&postcount=1


Originally posted by Future
CKD for fat loss
So, you want to start a CKD. Now, what the hell is a CKD you ask? Well, a CKD (cyclo ketonic diet) is simply a diet that consists of two cycles: low/no-carbohydrates and high-carbohydrates. A Keto diet is something that we all hear from Atkins, which is basically high fat, moderate protein and Low/No carbs. Yet, this type of diet, although very effective for the average person it' doesnt work well enough for the needs of someone wanting to get really lean.

Do not expect to gain muscle on this program. Once your muscle glycogen is depleted, your workouts become a pain in the butt, you are sluggish and muscle loss can occur. The main goal of Ketosis is to have no glycogen in the liver so glucagon can be released. Basically, it all boils down to the following:

Day 1-6 you eat High-Fat/Moderate-Protein/Low-No-Carbohydrates, then Day 7 you eat HIGH-GI carbohydrates and low-fat, in order to achieve super compensation and refill muscle glycogen. (this will ensure quality training throughout every CKD cycle you do)


Setting up a CKD (6days Ketosis/1day Carb-Up)
First-off, let’s figure out your BMR (basal-metabolic-rate). Take your weight and multiply it by 12=daily calorie intake without a deficit.
(100lb person) Example: 100lb x 12cal= 1200cal…1200cal=BMR
Everything I put forth will revolve in one way or another around your BMR.
6/1 ratio (6 days in ketosis/1 day carb-up)
Figure out your BMR...(basal-metabolic-rate)=calories needed to maintain current weight
weight x 12=BMR....(EXAMPLE: 100lb x 12=1200 cal a day)


Use the following fat/protein ratios w/ BMR deficit:
Ketosis:
Day:
1-> 85%fat/15%protein--BMR-5%
2-> 75%fat/25%protein--BMR-10%
3-> 65%fat/35%protein--BMR-15%
4-> 70%fat/30%protein--BMR
5-> 70%fat/30%protein--BMR-10%
6-> 65%fat/35%protein--BMR-15%
Carb-Up:
Day-7-> (CARB-UP) BMR+30% Everyone’s favorite part

So, how do you calculate these percents and BMR. Well, let’s use a 200lb person as an example of this.
EXAMPLE BASED ON 200lb PERSON:
200lb. x 12cal=2400cal (BMR)
Ketosis: Days 1-6:
Day 1: 85%fat/15%protein-- BMR-5%
2400cal (BMR) x .05=120cal (is 5% from BMR)
2400cal (BMR) – 120 cal (5%deficit)=2280cal for day 1
Fat ratios for day 1
2280cal x .85 (that is 85% fat)=1938cal from fat
Fat has 9 calories/gram
1938cal divided by 9cal/gram=215g fat for day 1
Protein ratios for day 1
2280cal x .15(that is 15%protein)=342 cal from protein
Protein has 4 calories/grams
342cal divided by 4cal/gram=86 g protein for day 1
Totals for Day-1: 215g fat/86g protein


Now, you might ask, why is the protein so low? Protein can keep you out of Ketosis and, remember, everyday you are in Ketosis, you are burning fat while preserving muscle because Ketones (hence the name Ketosis) are protein sparing. Protein can convert to glycogen at almost 58% efficiency, so you see why excess protein is a bad idea. Plus, strictly from a scientific standpoint, a person can maintain current muscle mass at merely a 15%protein ratio, while no muscle gain is possible, maintenance is a very feasible idea with these ratios.


Day 2: 75%fat/25%protein BMR-10%
2400cal (BMR) x .10=240cal (is 10% from BMR)
2400cal (BMR) – 240 cal (10%deficit)=2160cal for day 2
Fat ratios for day 2
2160cal x .75 (that is 75% fat)=1620cal from fat
Fat has 9 calories/gram
1620cal divided by 9cal/gram=180g fat for day 2
Protein ratios for day 2
2160cal x .15(that is 15%protein)=324 cal from protein
Protein has 4 calories/grams
324cal divided by 4cal/gram=81 g protein for day 2
Totals for Day 2: 180g fat/81g protein


Day 3: 65%fat/35%protein BMR-15%
2400cal (BMR) x .15=360cal (is 15% from BMR)
2400cal (BMR) – 360 cal (15%deficit)=2040cal for day 3
Fat ratios for day 3
2040cal x .65 (that is 65% fat)=1326cal from fat
Fat has 9 calories/gram
1326cal divided by 9cal/gram=147g fat for day 3
Protein ratios for day 3
2040cal x .35(that is 35%protein)=714 cal from protein
Protein has 4 calories/grams
714cal divided by 4cal/gram=178 g protein for day 3
Totals for Day 3: 147g fat/178g protein


Day 4: 70%fat/30%protein BMR
2400cal (BMR)
Fat ratios for day 4
2400cal x .70 (that is 70% fat)=1680cal from fat
Fat has 9 calories/gram
1680cal divided by 9cal/gram=186g fat for day 4
Protein ratios for day 4
2400cal x .30(that is 30%protein)=720 cal from protein
Protein has 4 calories/grams
720cal divided by 4cal/gram=180 g protein for day 4
Totals for Day-4: 186g fat/180g protein


Day 5: 70%fat/30%protein BMR-10%
2400cal (BMR) x .10=240cal (is 10% from BMR)
2400cal (BMR) – 240 cal (10%deficit)=2160cal for day 5
Fat ratios for day 5
2160cal x .70 (that is 70% fat)=1512cal from fat
Fat has 9 calories/gram
1512cal divided by 9cal/gram=168g fat for day 5
Protein ratios for day 5
2160cal x .30(that is 30%protein)=648 cal from protein
Protein has 4 calories/grams
648cal divided by 4cal/gram=162 g protein for day 5
Totals for Day-5: 168g fat/162g protein


Day 6: (same as day 3) 65%fat/35%protein-- BMR-15%
2400cal (BMR) x .15=360cal (is 15% from BMR)
2400cal (BMR) – 360 cal (15%deficit)=2040cal for day 6
Fat ratios for day 6
2040cal x .65 (that is 65% fat)=1326cal from fat
Fat has 9 calories/gram
1326cal divided by 9cal/gram=147g fat for day 6
Protein ratios for day 6
2040cal x .35(that is 35%protein)=714 cal from protein
Protein has 4 calories/grams
714cal divided by 4cal/gram=178 g protein for day 6
Totals for Day-6: 147g fat/178g protein


Essential Fatty Acids: fish oil, flaxseed oil, sesames seed oil, sunflower seed oil, grape seed oil, olive oil, peanut oil

Orbit Nutrition has macadamia nut oil that is really great as well.

You want to know how to do this the easy way. So, here is a simple way to break down your Ketosis ratios:
1)Set calories at: 12 cal/lb
2)Set protein intake: typically 0.9 g/lb. Protein has 4 cal/gram
3)Set fat intake: take protein calories and subtract them from total calories, then divide by 9 to get grams of fat.


In practice, most people end up eating about 1 gram of fat for every gram of protein. Ketosis almost always establishes with 1/1 ratios. (fat/protein -grams-)




CARB UP TIME:
DAY 7: carb up BMR+30%
EXAMPLE FOR A 200lb PERSON:
2400cal (BMR) x .30= 720cal
2400cal + 720cal=3120cal
70%carbs/20%protein/10%fat
CARBS:
3120 x .70= 2185 cal from carbs
Carbohydrates have 4cal/g
2185cal divided by 4ca/g=546g carbs
PROTEIN:
3120 x .20=624cal from protein
Protein has 4cal/g
624cal divided by 4cal/g=156g protein
FAT:
3120 x .10=312 cal from fat
Fat has 9cal/g
312 divided by 9=35g fat
Totals: 546g carbs/156g protein/35g fat

SAMPLE CARB UP: (6meals) 200lb person
1-2: 150 g liquid glucose polymers like carb powders ( carbo max, dextrose) w/ 1 scoop protein
3-4: 75 g of liquid and solid glucose polymers (frosted flakes,honey-nut-cheerios..etc) w/ fat-free milk w/ 1/4 cup walnuts
5-6: 50 g of complex carbs (low GI) oatmeal, brown rice, beans, yams, sweet potato w/ 1/4 cup walnuts
AVOID FRUCTOSE: Why is it that people say to avoid fructose? I've heard that quite a few times, and was curious why. How important is this? Fructose resupplies the liver with glycogen first, if the liver is full, then via the pentose phosphate pathway, all additional fructose goes to FAT.


I know that every reader wants a simple way to figure out a carb up, so here it is:
1) Set total calories at: 16 cal/lb
2) Set protein intake: typically 0.2 g/lb. Protein has 4 cal/gram
3) Set fat intake: usually 0.1g/lb. Fat has 9cal/gram
4) Set carb intake: add protein and fat calories and subtract it from total calories, then divide by 4 to get grams of carbs.
In practice, most people end up eating about 2.7 grams of carbs for every lb of weight.


So, what type of workout and cardio do you have to do while on CKD. Here is a sample workout routine based on a 6/1 CKD. (6day Ketosis/1day carb-up)
Day:
1- 30 min cardio morning(empty stomach)/workout: Chest, Upper-Back, shoulders, arms, traps, abs
2- 30 min cardio morning/ workout: Legs, (includes, calfs, hams,quads), lower-back
3- 45 min cardio morning OR 1 hour cardio during the day
4- SAME AS DAY 3
5- 30-45 min cardio AM no workout
6- 30 min cardio AM/ full body workout = circuit training 3-5 times (very light 20-25reps)
7- before carb-up…early in AM do a full body circuit workout 3-5 times (very light 20-25reps), then IMMEDIATELY begin CARB UP.


(Cardio) I suggest using HIIT cardio and sLow cardio alternating. HIIT means to “sprint as hard as you can for 20-30 seconds and then “jog” for 60-90 seconds. Whatever equipment you can use to get that hear rate up will work. sLow is the boring cardio but less taxing. You will keep your heart rate around 120-135 bpm.

Please take a serving of BCAA’s before doing you AM cardio/weigh training to fight muscle breakdown.

(DAY 1-6) For each body part do 1 exercise for 3 sets of 8-12 reps after necessary warm ups. Try to get close to failure on each work set. If you want you can start with your heaviest set after your warm ups and drop the weights as you fatigue…AND YOU WILL FATIGUE.

(Day 7) You can simply do dips, chins, band work, walking lunges, curls, sit ups, push ups. Time yourself for 30-45 seconds per exercise. Rest after each circuit as needed.


Supplements you need for CKD:


FIBER –anything from Walmart or Target is fine

Multi Vitamins/Minerals

AdipoKinetix or MHP Dren

Ephedrine

BCAA’s

Glutamine Peptides

Creatine


HOW TO TAKE THEM:
Take multi two times a day (recommended dose); one in the morning and one in the afternoon (around 2-3pm)
Take each 1-3 pills AdipoKinetix or MHP Dren with 25mg of ephedrine 2-3 times a day.
Take Fiber supplementation 2 times a day (morning,bed)

From Iron Addict:

Use will depend on budget. Here is what I would do with Aminos based on different budgets.
Big budget 10 grams EEA's 10 grams BCAA"s 10 grams glutamine before at least 3 meals a day. On a training day, 10 gram glutamine and 10 grams EAA's right before the workout, 30 grams BCAA's during workout


Less Budget 5 grams EEA's 5 grams BCAA"s 5 grams glutamine before at least 3 meals a day. On a training day 5 grams glutamine and 5 grams EAA's right before the workout, 30 grams BCAA's during workout.


Less budget 5-10 grams BCAA's before at least 3 meals a day and 30 grams BCAA's during workout
Less budget and the cheapest way to use them and still have tangible results is 30 grams BCAA's during the workout.


As far as what kind of protein to use, use what you can tolerate. As you know I think whey sucks. Most people can handle the Team Skip blend which is 33 whey isolate, 33 egg, 33 casein. Don't add BCAA's, EAA's or Glute to this.


You DON'T want to mix your BCAA's or glutamine with anything as it reduces or stops the signaling effects they provide.


Eric Serrano says his lab research shows 10 grams of EAA's to be the anabolic equivalent of 40+ grams of protein. I believe him based on results. Sucks they are the most expensive.
The BCAA's should be the 4.1.1 mix which is nice as it s the cheaper of the two generally used mixes.


OOPS, I forgot to add that 3 grams of taurine with any of these is a great idea.


WHAT INTERRUPTS KETOSIS?
The only supplements that seem to reliably interrupt ketosis are vanadyl (seems to affect liver glycogen status) and citrimax (Hydroxycitric acid). Citric acid (found in diet sodas) kicks some people out of ketosis, but does not affect everybody. Aspartame also seems to affect some people but isn't consistent. The anti-oxidant n-acetyl-cysteine can give a false positive for ketosis. Basically, the only way to really negatively affect ketosis is by raising blood glucose or affecting liver metabolism.

[gamman]

Originally posted by Graham_A_M
I may be mis-informed, but when I was diagnosed with my Type 2 diabetes: I was informed on the actual (natural occuring) process that diabetics go through when cells cant take in sugars from the blood stream.
Instead they break down the fat since its the only source of energy they have access to. Problem is: this whole Ketosis process produces several harmful effects on your body, some are very severe.

Is that correct or can anybody clarify that?

TypeI here. I get ketosis all the time, from having not guessed correctly on my carb counting. Starving cells of essential food is not a good idea. I am skinny, so it does work. I wouldn't say its "Healthy" or not harmful, however, ask someone from university in health sciences, they would have more info.

[Darkane]

Originally posted by gamman


TypeI here. I get ketosis all the time, from having not guessed correctly on my carb counting. Starving cells of essential food is not a good idea. I am skinny, so it does work. I wouldn't say its &quot;Healthy&quot; or not harmful, however, ask someone from university in health sciences, they would have more info.

Correct. I however would argue it's not your carb count that's incorrect, but the amount of insulin for your current blood sugar.

Insulin "shuttles" glucose and nutrients into our cells. Type I diabetes means no insulin is being produced from the pancreas. If the body can't glucose it will turn to ketones.

When the blood is saturated with ketones, and glucose these rush out in urine taking salts, potasium. etc leading to dehydration.

Ketoacidosis can occur as well drop the blood PH below normal and being dangerous.

Type II Diabetics have Severe Insulin resistance, but still produce insulin. It's just that their cells cannot uptake the nutrients causing to a lesser degree the same Issues as type I.

To a normal healthy person, Nothing at all is wrong with Going keto/low carb. In fact low carb and ketosis is one of the treatments for Type II diabetes!

You must eat green veggies when going keto to maintain blood PH.

Once people reach ketosis for a while they actually feel BETTER. No more peaks and valleys in their blood sugar profiles, just nice steady no crash energy.

Something else thats interesting is Hypoglycemia can also be treated the same way, low carb/Type of carbs to stabilize blood sugars.

EDIT: I'm not a health student or medical professional, all this should be taken with a grain of salt. I do however encourage people to do their own research, there are thousands of diabetes books, nutritional strategies, etc etc. Just read up. Internet is an excellent source, you just have to sift the bullshit.

[Toma]

Originally posted by SScott
What do you guys know about it?

I have a buddy who induces ketosis by limiting his sugar/starch intake (carbs) so that his body (correct me if im wrong) burns fat for energy.

I've read a lot of conflicting articles online debating if it is a health risk or not.

Any incite?
No scientific data to prove it is bad for your system if your body is otherwise healthy (ie, not diabetic, no vitamin deficiency etc).

Absolutely the best way to burn fat.

[JordanEG6]

Just started. Into it for 4 days. Is it typical for me to feel like ass and feel dizzy and weak?

I hit the gym today, and I was unusually weak and I ended up running out of gas benching a plate. I'm usually close to a plate and a half to two plates and still have alot of energy left, but today was depressing haha.

My fat/pro intake is 95g/210g. I also started stacking ECA 4 days ago as well. I also try and stay fully hydrated throughout the day.

[GQBalla]

Originally posted by JordanEG6
Just started. Into it for 4 days. Is it typical for me to feel like ass and feel dizzy and weak?

I hit the gym today, and I was unusually weak and I ended up running out of gas benching a plate. I'm usually close to a plate and a half to two plates and still have alot of energy left, but today was depressing haha.

My fat/pro intake is 95g/210g. I also started stacking ECA 4 days ago as well. I also try and stay fully hydrated throughout the day.

yes very common,

once your body starts to convert to using saturated fats as energy you'll notice feeling better, more energy etc

[Darkane]

Originally posted by JordanEG6
Just started. Into it for 4 days. Is it typical for me to feel like ass and feel dizzy and weak?

I hit the gym today, and I was unusually weak and I ended up running out of gas benching a plate. I'm usually close to a plate and a half to two plates and still have alot of energy left, but today was depressing haha.

My fat/pro intake is 95g/210g. I also started stacking ECA 4 days ago as well. I also try and stay fully hydrated throughout the day.

Yes, fairly normal to feel 'sluggish'. Don't worry about lack of performance, more than anything it was just your Nervous System not responding.

Had a shitty sleep? Stressful day? Didn't eat ALL your meals? To many variables.

Mind you, your calories seem low too - it could just be the lack of food in general, not the lack in carbs.

You're consuming 1700cals/day, that is well not much :)

A Macdonalds meal can have 1200cals or so, eating one of those meals a day and a snack would result in poor gym performance as well even though there are carbs present.

Give it a fair chance, stay low/no carb for 2 weeks. Your energy will soar. It's seriously like a somebody turns on a switch, you'll know.

[Oz-]

For some people interested in starting this, try to get yourself used to the "no carbs" portion of it. Once you are over that hump, then you worry about the kcal intake. Charless Poliquin advises the best way to kick start a fat loss diet is for the first 2 weeks is only put things that a caveman had access to. So if isn't green or doesn't fly, swim or run then you don't put it in your mouth. Even supplements, take a layoff from these during this time frame to get your body adjusted.

My personal experience, once you get into ketosis it is easy sailing from there.

[JordanEG6]

Thanks for the tips guys :)

I'll wait it out a couple weeks. Hopefully I get to a state where I don't have to worry about strength loss.

I'll also try eating a bit more, I just don't wanna go overboard on the fat intake.

[Darkane]

Originally posted by JordanEG6
Thanks for the tips guys :)

I'll wait it out a couple weeks. Hopefully I get to a state where I don't have to worry about strength loss.

I'll also try eating a bit more, I just don't wanna go overboard on the fat intake.

Just remember to keep fat and protein calories at a 50/50 split.

I've been as high as 200g fat, 425g pro split before. 3600cals.

[JordanEG6]

Does it take alot to bump out of ketosis? And how long to come back in?


Just wondering in case, weeks from now, I decide, randomly or cheat day, to have a bowl of cereal or some whole wheat toast, I don't wanna have to go through the 'conversion process' again.

[Oz-]

Originally posted by JordanEG6
Does it take alot to bump out of ketosis? And how long to come back in?


Just wondering in case, weeks from now, I decide, randomly or cheat day, to have a bowl of cereal or some whole wheat toast, I don't wanna have to go through the 'conversion process' again. It shouldn't. If you want to maintain some semblance of muscle and strength a weekly cheat day would be a good thing to incorporate. Getting back into ketosis is dependent on how much you eat for carbs, for me it was about 18-36 hours and I was back in ketosis.

Get some ketostix at walmart, if you are not in ketosis or just on the fringe. Try to uptake your fat and not your protein.

[JordanEG6]

Should the keto-stick be purple after 4 days of ketosis? I'm at like a deep pink (moderate) level of ketones.

[Oz-]

That dark pink and the one above it are probably your best areas to be in. If you are too far to one end, you are not hydrated enough. When I hit the trace coloring, I would find that increasing my EFA intake would bring it back to the middle area of the ketostix