Journeymen welders help me

[syritis]

I'm a first year machinist (almost second year) but despite every machine shop in calgary having my resume nothing looks very promising.
so a friend of mine said that his buddy needed a laborer to do some temporary welding and other shenanigans. as they picked up a large contract with a very short deadline. i really need the money so i took the job as i also have my 1st year welding training done. i've been welding at home for 3 years now with a little 110volt mig welder and 220volt arc welder, easy stuff. at both of the machine shops i've worked at i've done occasional small welding jobs with various machines and have never had a problem.

now at this temp job the welders i'm using just aren't playing very nice. some times they work great sometimes the filler wire (0.035) will bind up inside the whip. the journeymen call it "shorting out" all i know is it stops the wire from feeding and i'll have to pull 8 feet of wire from the machine to pull the kink out. i asked the journeymen how to stop it from happening. they replied with:
-keep the whip as straight as possible
-keep the wire stick out as long as possible while still maintaining arc
-remove all spatter from the contact tip
-never let the nozzle touch the work piece

it still hasn't stopped it from happening and the foreman is getting pissed at my slow progress (i've got some words to say about his work standards and the horrible fit up he lets everyone else do) but that's a different thread.

I suggested replacing the whip liner and using lubricating pads to clean the filler wire instead of ear plugs. but it seems to have been ignored. does anyone have any other suggestion to stop the filler wire from binding in the whip causing the wire to weld itself to the contact tip?

ps it's a miller power source CP-302 and a miller A24 wire feeder with a bernard whip.

[old&slow]

There's a tension screw where the wire comes off the reel and enters the whip. Make sure it has only enuf tension to push the wire thru the line. You can kind of test this by using ur finger to put pressure as it comes out the tip. You should be able to make the wire stop with a light pressure(the drive rolls will spin) but still enuf to push it out.
Try setting the wire speed a wee bit on the lower side while still maintaining that buzzing/tearing sound.
I have an issue with this: -"keep the wire stick out as long as possible while still maintaining arc"
If your stick out is too much it will wreak havoc on the volt/amp curve and result in poor welds. I would not go beyond 1/2" in general.
Other wise it sounds like you are doing what you can!
How heavy is the material you are welding?
Edit: If the contact tip has been shorted more than a few times you will want to change it out...it tends to happen more frequently after the first couple of shorts!

[crusher777]

try blowing out the liner or replace the liner

[sr20s14zenki]

When using the gmaw process, you should be maintaining 3/8" electrical stickout. That is the distance from the end of of your tip to the workpiece. How is your machine set. What is your wirespeed and voltage. What wire. Are you using?

Edit: 0.35 I'm assuming solid wire, just re read your post. In the beginning it's hard to maintain your stickot. I remember going thru shitloads of tips myself haha. Ensure your settings are correct for what you are welding too. Usually the settings inside the wire feeder are good starting points. Usually the 10/10 method works too ie. 18 volts 180 wire speed. 23 volts 230 wire speed. When you get into the higher voltage it doesn't work the same tho. At work I run our 045 flux core at 26 volts 420 ipm wire speed. Depends how thick of material you are welding. What are you welding?

[syritis]

Old&slow. that pretty much sounds like what is happening. the roller tension is pretty good. it's a little more then then what you said, but i thought it also depends if the rollers are knurled or smooth. these ones are smooth. i was also taught 3/8 -1/2 stick out but these journeymen want more. they say the further out the tip is the less chance spatter will build on the tip and less chance to short the wire. i do notice that the it does happen more often with worn tips but the problem is that i was going though as many as 3 tips per day (some days I didn't waste any) and the foremen didn't like that so he hid the tip and said that i only get to use worn out tips. so it's gotten so bad that i have to use a torch tip cleaner to clean the tips. i'm pretty sure that the journeymen i work with hate me so theirs little i could do now to prove my worth. maybe i shouldn't have gone around fixing their work. imagine that, when just a laborer will fix a journeyman work so that will actually be a level floor.
the majority or the material we are using is 1/4 mild steel plate. except for over head welding i'm usually running 24.5 volts and whatever 6 is for the wire speed (site info: max wire speed is 750ipm. 750 x 0.60 = 450ipm) seems high for what you say but the welds do seem to have good fusion and appearance.

crusher: the foremen said that the liners were replaced the day before I started there about 3 weeks ago but i think it's bull shit b/c when i feed new wire though it still comes out dirty.

I really do hate this place. i've worked with many welders before. i've met quite a few assholes but they're standards were unquestionable. At this place they shower me with grinder and torch sparks and leave me with gaps between the plate up to 3/4" and just say good luck then they'll come back and give me shit for taking so long.

[sr20s14zenki]

Originally posted by syritis
Old&slow. that pretty much sounds like what is happening. the roller tension is pretty good. it's a little more then then what you said, but i thought it also depends if the rollers are knurled or smooth. these ones are smooth. i was also taught 3/8 -1/2 stick out but these journeymen want more. they say the further out the tip is the less chance spatter will build on the tip and less chance to short the wire. i do notice that the it does happen more often with worn tips but the problem is that i was going though as many as 3 tips per day (some days I didn't waste any) and the foremen didn't like that so he hid the tip and said that i only get to use worn out tips. so it's gotten so bad that i have to use a torch tip cleaner to clean the tips. i'm pretty sure that the journeymen i work with hate me so theirs little i could do now to prove my worth. maybe i shouldn't have gone around fixing their work. imagine that, when just a laborer will fix a journeyman work so that will actually be a level floor.
the majority or the material we are using is 1/4 mild steel plate. except for over head welding i'm usually running 24.5 volts and whatever 6 is for the wire speed (site info: max wire speed is 750ipm. 750 x 0.60 = 450ipm) seems high for what you say but the welds do seem to have good fusion and appearance.

crusher: the foremen said that the liners were replaced the day before I started there about 3 weeks ago but i think it's bull shit b/c when i feed new wire though it still comes out dirty.

I really do hate this place. i've worked with many welders before. i've met quite a few assholes but they're standards were unquestionable. At this place they shower me with grinder and torch sparks and leave me with gaps between the plate up to 3/4" and just say good luck then they'll come back and give me shit for taking so long.

LOL the further out the better? Thats the dumbest shit i have ever heard. Have these people heard of tip dip? Antispatter spray? They are very useful tools. for 1/4 plate, i would run around 23-24 volts, and about 350-370 ipm. Its been awhile since ive used GMAW however haha, everything i do is SMAW or FCAW.

[syritis]

we use the tip dip, it doesn't seem to prevent the spatter build up, just lets it break off easier.

the foremen taught me to pull off the nozzle and flip it around and circle it around the wire against the tip, so it removes the spatter from the nozzle and the tip, the problem is that it scraped off the tip dip, the nozzle is usually freakin hot and you have to do it every 10 seconds and it's still not a guarantee that it will stop the wire from shorting to the tip.

[sr20s14zenki]

Originally posted by syritis
we use the tip dip, it doesn't seem to prevent the spatter build up, just lets it break off easier.

the foremen taught me to pull off the nozzle and flip it around and circle it around the wire against the tip, so it removes the spatter from the nozzle and the tip, the problem is that it scraped off the tip dip, the nozzle is usually freakin hot and you have to do it every 10 seconds and it's still not a guarantee that it will stop the wire from shorting to the tip. Haha yep i used to do that, good trick, doesnt work with flux core tho, or metal core, it just breaks the wire off, pain in the ass. You should see how many tips i go thru with the spoolgun, its absolutely obscene, but apparently its normal. Ive managed to reduce it alot, but its still stupid. Just keep practicing man. Usually a bad liner will result in hunting, or erratic feeding. One thing i usually do is grab the wire with thumb and forefinger right at the end of the nozzle, and see how much pressure it takes to stop the wire from coming thru. It should take a fairly good squeeze to stop it. If its realllly easy to stop, maybe add a bit more tension. But, if the journeyman can run the machine perfect, and you cant, something tells me its just practice man. I remember i used to have the same problem when i started my career. After awhile, i could make a tip last 2-3 weeks.

Buy and keep some mig pliars on you, DONT get the orange handled ones at princess auto, they SUCK, calgary fasteners sells a nice set. Anyways, they are handy for cleaning the tip, removing the tip, etc. What kind of tips are they using there? When you unscrew the nozzle, does the tip just coming off? Is the nozzle screw on or push on/off. The screw on with the tip being held in by the nozzle, is called centrefire, its a bernard style of tip. I religiously use them, i HATE camlocks, the ones where you lock the tip in, they suck, in my opinion.

Anyways keep practicing man, youll get better.

[syritis]

I have no doubt that my technique isn't as refined as the journeymen but they do have this problem too. it happens to them maybe once or twice a day. where it happens to me (depending on the position) about every 30 min.

the nozzle slides on and off, and the tip is screwed into another piece that screws onto the gun. this other piece when you take it off reveals the liner. the gun is also bernard

i have the princess auto mig pliers for 2 years now, and i don't leave home without them. they work well but the needle nose tip on them is very soft and bent outta shape.

[sr20s14zenki]

Originally posted by syritis
I have no doubt that my technique isn't as refined as the journeymen but they do have this problem too. it happens to them maybe once or twice a day. where it happens to me (depending on the position) about every 30 min.

the nozzle slides on and off, and the tip is screwed into another piece that screws onto the gun. this other piece when you take it off reveals the liner. the gun is also bernard

i have the princess auto mig pliers for 2 years now, and i don't leave home without them. they work well but the needle nose tip on them is very soft and bent outta shape.


Ahhhh tweeco style tips. Gay, i just changed all of ours in the shop over to bernard centerfires. Tweeco tips are like 2$ each, at Praxair, and the nozzles for our lincolns are like 12$. In comparison, a bernard nozzle is like 5$, and each tip is like 1.20, AND they are much better to use IMO. Maybe try checking the wire tension like i said. It may be TOO much, causing it to birdnest a bit inside the liner whenever it gets backed up, where as less tension will just basically stop it at the tip and then all you do is spin your whip around, to the left and right, like youre strangling somebody, it will dislodge it from the tip. Like i say, a gentle but firm pinch of your fingers should stop the wire, if it doesnt, back it off a bit. And then , practice maintaining a 3/8" to 1/2" stickout and keep your motion steady. Youll get better :thumbsup:

[old&slow]

Sounds like your in a tough spot kid. All I can say is stick it out. You'll earn more respect by sticking it out and continuing to persevere rather than giving in to their BS...older hardened guys can be hard to live with.

gl

[Graham_A_M]

^ That 10/10 rule is interesting, I've noticed that too, abiet without the relationship between the two.

I'd agree to say those "journeyman" welders are idiots to honestly say the farther is better. (WTF??!!) Im not even a welder and I know 3/8 to 1/2 is about right.

Seems like the Foreman is a fool as well for expecting perfect results with malfunctioning equipment. Ask for a different welding rig and Im sure you'd do fine by the sounds of it.

:dunno:

[syritis]

thanks for the great tips. between the 4 of us working on the skid we have 4 machines. 2 work pretty well and the other 2 are crap. i usually get stuck with one of the crappy ones.
i'll check the wire tension and have a better look at the settings inside the wire feeder. I'll mention something to the foremen about the tips, he'll be more interested in the price then anything.
thanks again guys.

[sr20s14zenki]

Yep. I get all of our consumables at oxypro now. Best price and service IMO. I only get the gas from praxair and not for long. What skid shop you at? Pm if you don't wanna say here.

[syritis]

i looked at the settings inside of the feeder. i have no idea what "run in speed" is. and that was the only one there.

I checked the wire tension again. I noticed that if the rollers slip on the wire it will put 2 kinks/bends in the wire, one for each set or rollers. it would continues feeding through the whip until the kinks/bends reached the tip and it would cause the rollers to slip, again 2 more kinks/bends.

checked the brand of consumables we use, they're "tough" or "tough-gun"

for my house i get all my shizzat from linde, mostly cuz they ate the cost of and expired bottle i got from liquid-air and gave me a new one. and refills are almost half the price. on a sad note though my bottle fell over and smashed the gauges and they're 1/8 npt thread so i can't find anymore. i'll have to but a whole new flow meter.

[sr20s14zenki]

Praxair i believe sells just the guages, check them out. I think oxypro does too.

[syritis]

everyone sells gauges but they're all 1/4 npt.
i wouldn't mind a new flow meter though, i have to turn down the flow for new bottles and turn it back up when the bottle is less then half full.

[Graham_A_M]

^ So you dont use a regulator? I'd never touch mine :dunno:

[old&slow]

Did you work out your problem?
It occurred to me you should also look at your ground clamp and cable to see if they are in good shape. If the machine is running a bit poorly a new clamp and cutting away a few inches of old tire cable can help with that and the spatter on the tip!

[syritis]

i turned down the wire tension and that stopped a lot of the bird nests, but the wire feed hesitates so often i'm not sure what is worse. would be nice if i was privileged enough to use new tips once in a while. the foremen still has them hidden from me. i figure i'm only there for another 2 or 3 weeks then i won't have to worry about beat up and poorly maintained machines

on a funny note though i was working the german guy today, he doesn't understand a word of english this guy is probably one of the stupidest person i've ever met and i've got lots of stories why. while working in very cramped space, i had to move my machine and when i did i noticed that the german's gas tank was turned around, and so my power cable hanger sheared off the hose from his flowmeter, I asked the foremen if he had another hose or if i should just fix it. He then started into a tantrum, screaming that i don't ever look what i'm doing. (my second ever mistake, even the foreman has made both mistakes before) so he throws his mask and smashes the lenses. kicks a ladder and continues going while i walk away. another journey man brings me a hose clamp and a knife. i cut the hose off the fitting and clamp the remaining hose onto it. FIXED!
I don't understand how my co-workers have all the patience in the world for this german kid that works so slowly i could do both our jobs in the same time, who creates extra work and who's welds look like absolute shit. but if i cause even the slightest inconvenience it's the end of the world.

anyhow notice the ground cable seems excessively flexible right at the clamp but not too many wire strands are broken. so didn't think much of it.

the bottle at my house still has a flowgauge on it, just the gauges don't work anymore.
what the difference between a flowgauge and a regulator/flowmeter
http://store.cyberweld.com/viflfl.html