U of C tuition raising!?!?

[2Valve0]

Did anyone else see the tuition raises U of C is going to try to pass this year.

1.5% was the maximum that is allowed for any institution unless a special request is made.

For business the tuition per course today is 516.09, and they want to raise the $250 starting next year.

Will try to post email I was sent and such later as Im in a hurry, Just wanted other peoples throughts on this.

45%+ price increase it BS BS BS BS :banghead:

[Hakkola]

http://www.canada.com/tuition+could+rise/2495134/story.html

[FraserB]

So is the $7,638 a per semester cost or is it for the full year? It says that that would buy you a full 10 course load.

[KLCC]

http://www.660news.com/news/local/article/21553--tuition-fees-at-the-u-of-c-could-rise-by-47....

It was on radio this morning.....what can you expect? In today's society, if you don't like what the UC has to offer (i.e. tuition vs quality of education). You can always attend USask, MRU or even UBC...

[Rarasaurus]

Originally posted by FraserB
So is the $7,638 a per semester cost or is it for the full year? It says that that would buy you a full 10 course load.

That is a full year. 5 courses per semester... Still an increase from the 500 per course to 700 per course. Seems like a huge jump to me, maybe its to pay for the university presidents retirement.

[FraserB]

.

[colinxx235]

I am glad next year is my final at U of C... what a pos school and that increase is ridiculous... first year engg will now cost an extra 2500, U of A will probably be receiving and increase in applicants now....

[dandia89]

kinda wish i didn't fuck around first year, fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu:banghead:

[Nova316]

Thank god I only have one semester left after this one, I couldn't imagine paying 700$ per class, that means to get an engineering degree (44 classes) your paying an extra 13grand over the course of 4 years. Right now its about 22 grand.

[g-m]

Originally posted by colinxx235
I am glad next year is my final at U of C... what a pos school and that increase is ridiculous... first year engg will now cost an extra 2500, U of A will probably be receiving and increase in applicants now....

except U of A filed their increase like a week ago whereas the U of C hasn't yet. I would expect tuition to be approximately equal.

People want the school to get better but don't want to pay for it. Oh well 3 more months till I get my ring.

[DonJuan]

Its probably just to pay off that fuzzy ass Harvey's retirement package. Its only on Engineering, Business, Medicine, and something else. Doesn't affect me, but I'm still pissed. Im done my undergrad degrees this year.

[Enhance]

For business courses..
Current: 516.09
Next year: 763.83

Yay 48% increase

:nut: :nut:

[cressida_pimpin]

I'm paying over $1200/course right now in my MBA, WITHOUT the raise! :banghead:

[2Valve0]

My only concern is the completely over infalted salary of all the vice-presidents and shit at U of C annd the whole pension scandal. how did the gov't not step in and stop that. It was complete BS if anyone kept current on it, the gov't even said on the news that what they were doing was illegal not filing things properly but yet it still happens.

I don't understand why tuition is raising when I'm being taught 3rd year courses by Grad students. WTF am i paying for? has anyone else experienced this? Also when certain teachers cancel 4,5,6 classes during the semester and rush through material. Why am I not refunded for the lectures I paid for but did not recieve?(not honestly expecting this but is a valid point)

U of C is honestly the worst run uni. financially in all of Canada, just a horrible system from ground up.

[Mx6er]

I would be in favor of a fee hike in the order of 3% - 5% tops. In fact this may improve a few aspects of my learning experience as a student. But a 47% price increase for undergraduates in haskayne is unfortunatly a price shock some students cannot handle. :bullshit: :bullshit:

A list of a few things I have experienced at U of C (for the worse):

1) A multitude of overseas professors who are underpaid, under-trained and can hardly speak English. Often they do not give students the time of day to address questions or concerns, because they are too underpaid to stick around.

2) Constant "outsourcing" of instruction, via online corporations providing "training". I can not even count on one hand how many times i have fully paid for a course, the textbook to find out half way through the semester I must also purchase a $150 subscription to an online training program ... suprise!.

3) Complete lack of confidence in the management of the university finances etc. on part of the teaching staff. For example there have been many occasions where professors have mocked the poor financial management of the chair positions and endowment funds (resulting in the loss of millions). Not to mention the snide remarks from profs regarding harvey wiendicks 5 mill pension.

4) Extremely poor facility maintenance. Often I walk into the little boys room, to find it completely flooded and filthy (scurfield is horrible for this). This is embarrassing for a province that is traditionally flush with oil and gas royalties, and corporate donations.

5) All the construction on campus. Although in the long run this will be a benefit, how about focusing on the quality of education, before enlarging student capacity? What the hell is a "digital library" anyway?

The list goes on and on...


Not to sound to harsh; a big thank you to the following profs who actually care about the quality of education students receive in Haskayne:

Dr. Ryan Lee
David Alexander
Larry Wood

I am glad I only have a year left at U of C. No student should ever say that about their post secondary school, but it seems to me, too many U of C students these days share the same view.

[flipstah]

It's a good thing I like ramen noodles. Mmm.

[snoop101]

You guys/gals who been going to school for the last 3-5 years have you seen improvements? Are the teachers getting better? Is there more classes to choose from?

I can understand the increase if there is a flip side to it. One thing I have to admit is that 7k-8k a year is amazing for schooling. In IT if you want to take a course with a cert your looking at around 5k for a few classes (ya a FEW classes).

[infected]

Do overloaded lectures with students sitting on the stairs count as an improvement?

[403ep3]

I was thinking about transferring to the UC...into business. Doesn't seem too appealing anymore :dunno:

[FraserB]

Still cheaper than my program at SAIT, ~$5200 per semester

[Power_Of_Rotary]

did anyone read that fucking email that david fucker sent?

the way he said the increase in price was to keep the high quality of education and so on... uofc is probably one of the worst universities ever, not just canada. garbage buildings, terrible professors, and slow inefficient service(online and service stop).


fuck the uofc, if i had a higher gpa (lol) i would have transfered somewhere else

[Pahnda]

That would be pretty retarded to hike fees that quickly, but I'm glad I finished my undergrad last year then... I do remember reading something about U of A thinking of doing the same. Both Universities were/are interested in going around the increase cap in any case.

Not quite sure why U of C is bashed so hardcore though, unless people have vastly different experiences than me. But then again I guess I'm also not the type to not do anything and just bitch and moan about everything on a forum.

Edit: U of A proposes tuition hike (http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/proposes+tuition+hikes/2240266/story.html)

"Don't like getting raped? Get out of Alberta." is apparently the not-so-new message from the provincial government if they let this go through.

[gqmw]

Originally posted by Pahnda

Not quite sure why U of C is bashed so hardcore though, unless people have vastly different experiences than me. But then again I guess I'm also not the type to not do anything and just bitch and moan about everything on a forum.


Exactly my thoughts...all I ever hear from this forum is people who bash UC, and although it is no where near the best university, I really don't find my experience here that bad. I feel as though a lot of you guys exaggerate how bad it is...

But the tuition hike is ridiculous. If I knew this were going to happen, I would've gone out of province for sure.

[badatusrnames]

Originally posted by snoop101
You guys/gals who been going to school for the last 3-5 years have you seen improvements? Are the teachers getting better? Is there more classes to choose from?

I can understand the increase if there is a flip side to it. One thing I have to admit is that 7k-8k a year is amazing for schooling. In IT if you want to take a course with a cert your looking at around 5k for a few classes (ya a FEW classes).

I've been at UofC for seven long years. All that time, they've continuously talked about "quality" and "improvement."

Not a damn thing has gotten better. If anything, the place has gotten worse. For all the costs they cut and fees they raise, I haven't seen much of it re-invested into undergrad programs. Most of it goes to fluffy sounding, pie in the sky things like the "Digital Library", "Institute for Sustainable Energy, Environment and Economy", etc.

Things that sound nice, cost a lot of money, benefit only a few, and in the end, do little to nothing in improving the quality of education for the average undergrad.

[Pahnda]

Originally posted by badatusrnames

...I haven't seen much of it re-invested into undergrad programs. Most of it goes to fluffy sounding, pie in the sky things like the "Digital Library", "Institute for Sustainable Energy, Environment and Economy", etc.

Things that sound nice, cost a lot of money, benefit only a few, and in the end, do little to nothing in improving the quality of education for the average undergrad.

Yeah, classrooms and study spaces seem pretty far out and pie-in-the-sky for a university to me too.

By the way, the ISEEE isn't that building you're thinking of... it's pretty much just a collaborative group that has a common research theme. the Energy Environment and Experiential Learning building was what you're looking for. The ISEEE group, according to the plans, takes up less than half of the 4th floor.

[msommers]

Originally posted by infected
Do overloaded lectures with students sitting on the stairs count as an improvement?

Firecode regulations don't allow the classroom to have more students than seats. We had an issue with one of our classes that got overloaded and subsequently got moved to a larger, and far shittier room!

[liquidboi69]

http://www.facebook.com/#/event.php?eid=272312041772&ref=nf

[dandia89]

Originally posted by msommers


Firecode regulations don't allow the classroom to have more students than seats. We had an issue with one of our classes that got overloaded and subsequently got moved to a larger, and far shittier room!

it's ridiculous, someone came into our 407 class talking about the over crowdness in our lecture hall saying we shouldn't be all going to one lecture, and we should deal with the other professor. what kind of message you trying to say? that our university's quality is not good, so we have to settle for less?

[CUG]

Originally posted by Power_Of_Rotary
did anyone read that fucking email that david fucker sent?

the way he said the increase in price was to keep the high quality of education and so on... uofc is probably one of the worst universities ever, not just canada. garbage buildings, terrible professors, and slow inefficient service(online and service stop).


fuck the uofc, if i had a higher gpa (lol) i would have transfered somewhere else I was going to say, I think they did this in part because MRU got their Uni designation.

IMO, the UofC is not a big dollar school, farthest thing from Ivy league as possible. This comes from the many alumni and current students who discuss the place.

What a fucking Joke.

[Markov7]

Originally posted by Power_Of_Rotary
did anyone read that fucking email that david fucker sent?

the way he said the increase in price was to keep the high quality of education and so on... uofc is probably one of the worst universities ever, not just canada. garbage buildings, terrible professors, and slow inefficient service(online and service stop).


fuck the uofc, if i had a higher gpa (lol) i would have transfered somewhere else

People just love to bash the U of C hey?

[Power_Of_Rotary]

Originally posted by Markov7


People just love to bash the U of C hey?


hmm what i wrote is not just out of the blue. maybe its better left in a different thread then to debate whether or not uofc is up to par.

but i still wanna hear the opinions on the other side, so fire away the pros.

*i should add uofc has a very very limited selection of food?? definitely :thumbsdow

[dirtsniffer]

Originally posted by dandia89


it's ridiculous, someone came into our 407 class talking about the over crowdness in our lecture hall saying we shouldn't be all going to one lecture, and we should deal with the other professor. what kind of message you trying to say? that our university's quality is not good, so we have to settle for less?

haha yea fuck, ive been waiting for your section to quiet down for some time now.. yani knows what is going on. my section is rediculous, the prof (Nora) just goes over the same thing, over and over, such a waste of time. and to think they want to charge me moar. oi

[2Valve0]

Honeslty, everyone bashes on the UofC so bad on this thread when half the people don't go there(most are MRC students who think they are the shit) the other few have really bad experiences.
OF COURSE UC isn't a amazing Uni. what do you expect paying the tuition we do? If you want an better school go to Toronto, Vancouver, downt to the US, London etc....but it will cost you

For what we pay and what everyone will make when they graduate UofC is great. But for 46% more it is not worth it to me anymore but have to much in Calgary to transfer somewhere else. A 3.2GPA and up could get you in almost anywhere in Canada through a transfer. Sadly I think this is the reality most people are facing. I couldn`t leave Calgary from everything I have here, and definately could not afford to pay to live on Campus and tuition at another university so I`m stuck right now :dunno:

[yipb]

sorry i didnt read the whole thread, but is the increase going to affect undergrads? or just the 4 main schools - law, business, med and eng?

[Team_Mclaren]

Originally posted by 2Valve0
Honeslty, everyone bashes on the UofC so bad on this thread when half the people don't go there(most are MRC students who think they are the shit) the other few have really bad experiences.
OF COURSE UC isn't a amazing Uni. what do you expect paying the tuition we do? If you want an better school go to Toronto, Vancouver, downt to the US, London etc....but it will cost you

For what we pay and what everyone will make when they graduate UofC is great. But for 46% more it is not worth it to me anymore but have to much in Calgary to transfer somewhere else. A 3.2GPA and up could get you in almost anywhere in Canada through a transfer. Sadly I think this is the reality most people are facing. I couldn`t leave Calgary from everything I have here, and definately could not afford to pay to live on Campus and tuition at another university so I`m stuck right now :dunno:


LOL way to pull numbers outta your ass!!! Tuition wise UC is on par with any other major universities in Canada.

http://www.ucalgary.ca/accountability/system/files/52_G13_Tuition_ByUniv.pdf

[Disoblige]

Kinda sucks being in Engg right now. Was long due for an overhaul and now they're doing renovations everywhere, and hammer noises most of the time as well. Then when I graduate, I don't even get to see the finished renos.

[msommers]

Originally posted by dandia89


it's ridiculous, someone came into our 407 class talking about the over crowdness in our lecture hall saying we shouldn't be all going to one lecture, and we should deal with the other professor. what kind of message you trying to say? that our university's quality is not good, so we have to settle for less?

That is pretty brutal, I know shit like that happened with Linear Algebra and Calc II classes. Some profs did not convey material very well and/or couldn't even speak English really.

I've been at the UofC now for....fuck this is my 5th year there. Quality wise it's hard to say as I switched from BioSci to Geology. In those courses I've had for the most part pretty good profs, some harder some easier. Profs teaching the courses in my majors have been pretty decent overall.

One prof that I don't find that great though is Jen Owen. Going to her lectures are borderline pointless and I keep going thinking that, this one time will be key and I don't want to miss it. And the usual happens, she reads off the slides almost word-for-word and throws in everyone once in awhile, "check your text." Her exams are fair and follow her slides she provides so no complaints there. In the end it's all about the grades you get I guess, which so fair, have been good.

My only other beef is Sedimentary Petrology by Krause. We have this big issue apparently with microscopes, which I really could care less about, I honestly haven't had an issue yet with it. The problem is both lectures and labs. Lectures are almost fucking pointless, drawing sketches that look terrible in comparison to what you actually are looking at, and labs seem like you're teaching yourself everything. I'm glad the textbook is solid, and well, google is always works too!.... Tutorials are fucking sweet though, thank God for Stefan.

Overall building quality, meh...no improvements there and if anything, worse than when I started.

[badatusrnames]

Originally posted by Pahnda


Yeah, classrooms and study spaces seem pretty far out and pie-in-the-sky for a university to me too.

By the way, the ISEEE isn't that building you're thinking of... it's pretty much just a collaborative group that has a common research theme. the Energy Environment and Experiential Learning building was what you're looking for. The ISEEE group, according to the plans, takes up less than half of the 4th floor.

:facepalm: I don't think you understood my post.

Sorry, but more places to sit are still peripheral things. I'm talking about educational fundamentals such as quality of instruction, better undergraduate resources, and course design that haven't improved a bit.

And when I was referring to ISEEE, I was well aware that it's a group, not a physical place. But my point was that the university pumps a shit-ton of money into things such as ISEEE which really only benefits a few people and not the larger undergraduate population.

[Vagabond142]

Originally posted by snoop101
You guys/gals who been going to school for the last 3-5 years have you seen improvements? Are the teachers getting better? Is there more classes to choose from?

I can understand the increase if there is a flip side to it. One thing I have to admit is that 7k-8k a year is amazing for schooling. In IT if you want to take a course with a cert your looking at around 5k for a few classes (ya a FEW classes).

To be brutally honest, probably the best instructors and courses I had were in MRC back in 2001-2003 (transfer credits to U of C). The school was clean, the instructors professional and fun, and the overall quality of service was excellent. U of C was probably the least satisfying of it all, I had one 4th year arky class with the new instructor the school was paying a MILLION (endowed chair) a year to keep, and he spoke about 5 words of english. I withdrew from his class a month in because I simply could NOT understand him, his organization (he would teach brand new subjects every class, totally unrelated to the previous class subjects), or his methods. In the end, for the final, I'm told he pretty much told the class to write a two page summation of Ancient Mayan interactions between tools and trades, and anyone that wrote something even halfway decent got an A. o_O

SAIT is kinda middle of the road. My security instructor (Tim Williams) is a veritable GOD of an instructor, my server service admin prof is a fruitcake but a funny person :D, and the other profs are nice but sometimes have a tendancy to wander (although the wanderings are all real life tie-ins, so they can be considered "instruction" as SAIT really likes to chest beat on the "real world experience" of the instructors :D)

[Pahnda]

Originally posted by badatusrnames


Sorry, but more places to sit are still peripheral things. I'm talking about educational fundamentals such as quality of instruction, better undergraduate resources, and course design that haven't improved a bit.

- Instruction Quality: Pretty subjective to begin with but a first step would be to get students to take their heads out of their assess. A lot of people I met in university rated useless profs, who teach nothing yet give high marks, extremely high. However, profs that gave a pretty big (yet manageable) workload and expected students to work for their marks got shit ratings from those same people. People can't want quality but skew the ratings in favour for shitty teachers like that.

Honestly though, the worst prof I ever had in university was a U of T prof. There were some pretty lackluster profs (especially a guy in physics that had crap time management) but overall, the profs I had were good.

- Better resources: Not to come off like an ass but what are some examples? Places to work, study, learn, research, etc... seem like 'resource' type things to me. Sure a few lab upgrades would be nice, but again, a lot of the equipment I used in the labs were nicer than what I used on internship or use for my consulting business. I think it's more an issue about getting people able to use the tools they have effectively. It takes a bit on your part to be proactive and bug the techs/profs (Engg example here, naturally) to find out how to use the equipment better, but the chance is there.

- Course design: Depends on the faculty you go into, but for the ones that are as regulated as engineering, go talk to the organization dictating the majority of your curriculum in Canada. The only thing I could really complain about is that I wish there was more variety in 4th year options for electrical, I don't give a crap about instrumentation and power. :P

Can't really speak for many majors that are largely arranged by the university itself, but I took a lot of language courses and the profs/courses they had in the GSEA department were great.

Edit: The whole view I'm trying to argue from is that if we went to U of A, UBC, or some other place people would be complaining about the exact same things. And no, I don't plan on ever going back to the U of C and actually plan on going to UBC. However, I actually have quantifiable and objective reasons for doing so instead of ones based on subjective qualities.

[lison]

this is gonna suck for ppl like me going into UC
actually it sucks for everyone. lol

[jahobo]

i was at the univeristy for 7 years... well 5.5 years of schooling. yeah i only took one 5 class semister hahah.

but from the beginning of my stay to the end. i can assure you i never seen any improvements to structure or education quality. i think i only went through tuition rises from 450ish to 525ish during my stay. but i experienced probably some of the most mixed teaching and lectures.

i have had great professors which taught and made their lectures learning environments (remember professors arent teachers). and i went through classes where there wasnt even a professor or someone close to being one trying to teach.

i had a grad student teach a class, which was a horrible experience. I found out from other students in the class, that she was complained about in her teaching ability during the class, which led to her being replaced next semester by someone else because of her brutal reviews. One complaint was in a midterm. someone complained that they got a question right and had the answer out of the text which was marked wrong. the reason why it was marked wrong was that yes it was correct from the text, but the prof wasnt looking for that answer so she marked it wrong. BRUTAL.

i still think the only ones that can really give an opinion how bad this so called institution really is, are the ones who have attended more than just the uofc, then there is valid comparison.

[atgilchrist]

Originally posted by jahobo
i had a grad student teach a class, which was a horrible experience. I found out from other students in the class, that she was complained about in her teaching ability during the class, which led to her being replaced next semester by someone else because of her brutal reviews. One complaint was in a midterm. someone complained that they got a question right and had the answer out of the text which was marked wrong. the reason why it was marked wrong was that yes it was correct from the text, but the prof wasnt looking for that answer so she marked it wrong. BRUTAL.

Wouldn’t this be an example of the University improving the teaching ability of its faculty? A poor teacher received poor reviews, and so was replaced.


Originally posted by jahobo
i was at the univeristy for 7 years... well 5.5 years of schooling. yeah i only took one 5 class semister hahah.

but from the beginning of my stay to the end. i can assure you i never seen any improvements to structure or education quality.

Well, that’s pretty evident.

[HyperZell]

Originally posted by atgilchrist


Wouldn’t this be an example of the University improving the teaching ability of its faculty? A poor teacher received poor reviews, and so was replaced.



Well, that’s pretty evident.

Snap.

[D'z Nutz]

Originally posted by snoop101
You guys/gals who been going to school for the last 3-5 years have you seen improvements?

I'm already starting to see improvements. The doors in Science B and Earth Sciences used to be a nasty orange, but they've been painting them a nasty brown all week long. That's progress! :rofl:

[flipstah]

Originally posted by D'z Nutz


I'm already starting to see improvements. The doors in Science B and Earth Sciences used to be a nasty orange, but they've been painting them a nasty brown all week long. That's progress! :rofl:

Not only that but we have that wooden stage that the SU built at Mac Hall to be used for... nothing. :thumbsup:

[jahobo]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by atgilchrist


Wouldn’t this be an example of the University improving the teaching ability of its faculty? A poor teacher received poor reviews, and so was replaced. [QUOTE]



its more fixing a mistake than improving anything. i forgot to mention she replaced a professor, screwed up the learning process up for 150 students and then exited.

its like dating a 7 dumping her for a 3 and then realizing your mistake and fixing it

[dandia89]

I don't get how some professors are even teaching when they can barely grasp the language.

[D'z Nutz]

That's because many of them don't want to teach, they have to teach. Most of them are there for the research.

[Disoblige]

Originally posted by dandia89
I don't get how some professors are even teaching when they can barely grasp the language.



Originally posted by D'z Nutz
That's because many of them don't want to teach, they have to teach. Most of them are there for the research.

That's so damn unfortunate. I'm an A or C/D student, and in 4 courses in my 3 year full course load, I got fucked because the prof evidently was not interested in teaching and/or had terrible teaching skills that ended up fucking me on exams.

Luckily in my 3rd and 4th year Engg studies, I'm getting way better profs, but still doesn't help much if it screwed you a bit of your GPA.

[Xtrema]

Have you guys even checked UC's competition?

MRU is charging $6K/year for undergrad.

There is no way UC who think they are superior to MRU and not charge more.

It's the Apple mentality. It cost more, it must be better and more desired.

[ssj3hafeez]

I can only speak for the business program, I don't think the quality at UC is better than MRU. Perhaps the only advantage that UC has is the networking system, that helps students find jobs. As opposed to MRU

[Super_Geo]

I don't see what the big deal is... $7-8k/year is pretty common in a lot of other universities for engineering. That's what I was paying per year from '02-06.

[Disoblige]

I heard at Queens its ~8k, but you can take as many courses you want one semester. That seems fair. Seems like Queens would be cheaper than U of C if the tuition increases!

[heinz256]

Looks like they passed it, but wont be in effect until Fall 2011

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/calgary/story/2010/04/07/edmonton-calgary-tuition-increases.html

[Dehvee]

No increase for engineering at UC!

[flipstah]

Originally posted by heinz256
Looks like they passed it, but wont be in effect until Fall 2011

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/calgary/story/2010/04/07/edmonton-calgary-tuition-increases.html

Ouch. There goes UofC's future revenues. GG, Haskayne.

[toyboy88]

Looks like I'll be paying more in business, although at least it's not til 2011, so I will only have the final year left.

[Disoblige]

Bachelor of Commerce @ U of C got owned.

[2Valve0]

I don't understand how commerce got increased when they are paying for all the other faculties debts. Haskayne actually makes money to support everything they do and have alot of companys pumping money in, where as things like phycology, sociology etc...seem to be leeching(from what I have heard).

[rixxx]

[dandia89]

Originally posted by 2Valve0
I don't understand how commerce got increased when they are paying for all the other faculties debts. Haskayne actually makes money to support everything they do and have alot of companys pumping money in, where as things like phycology, sociology etc...seem to be leeching(from what I have heard).

apparantly they set it up so the people who would most likely get the most money after graduation would have to pay the most. i think that mentality is retarded. It should be the other way around to prevent people going into degrees which aren't neccessary to get a job.

[dirtsniffer]

yyaaa thats why business got the increase, but not engineering

[flipstah]

Originally posted by dandia89


apparantly they set it up so the people who would most likely get the most money after graduation would have to pay the most. i think that mentality is retarded. It should be the other way around to prevent people going into degrees which aren't neccessary to get a job.

From a business-side point of view, UofC is going the right direction.

It's all about brand recognition.

Haskayne is trying to do what Hyundai Genesis trying to do with the luxury car market; it looks okay, it runs alright, they jack up the price to pit against MB, Audi, etc. but at the end of the day, you're buying an overpriced Hyundai.