Sub-floor in basement?

[nonofyobiz]

Just wondering what other ppl have done when developing their basements. I plan on putting down carpet but I'm not sure if I should build a subfloor or not.
A couple ppl have said it's enough to just put down a good underlay -no need to spend extra on a sub floor.

Also do I need to put something down to stop moisture coming up, like a moisture barrier, or I was told I could just use a primer to seal it, or felt paper or 6 mil polyethylene sheet.

If it's going to make it cold then I would want to do a subfloor

[sxtasy]

imo, if you are going to be in the house for a long time and going to be using the basement quite often. I would build a subfloor, it is quite easy, and you can do it for cheap if you do it yourself. Your house will also be warmer (especially your basement). I used 1x4 strapping, 1" x 24" styrofoam insulation in between and hardwood floors.

If you have your heart set on carpet, then its probably not worth it. I have always hated carpet in basements though, especially cause of the humidity.

[roopi]

Use this:
http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CatalogSearchResultView?D=931386&Ntt=931386&catalogId=10051&storeId=10051&langId=-15&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntx=mode+matchall&recN=0&N=0&Ntk=P_PartNumber&showreviews=1

2 Ft. x 2 Ft. DRIcore Engineered Subfloor Panel System is worth the money. For moisture and for heat.

[ianmcc]

If you lay poly on the concrete slab you must glue it down-that air space between the concrete and the poly will hold moisture. The air space above (your living area) is warm-the floor (concrete will pull moisture from the earth) is cool and slightly damp, even a tiny bit. Warm and cool meet-you get condensation. That DRIcore is good stuff, and is easier to put in before you roll a floor.
I always say, it's better to have something and not need it than to need something and not have it.

[C_Dave45]

Just for reference...all the new houses, even in the multi-million dollar luxury homes, we just put carpet straight onto slab. Friend of mine used the 2'x2' sub-floor from Home Depot...he doesn't notice any difference in heat/cold as without, and never any problems with moisture.
If you can afford it (~$3.00/sq ft) it certainly doesn't hurt...but IMHO it's not worth spending an extra few thousand bucks. I'd rather put that money towards stuff IN the basement. YMMV.

[nonofyobiz]

so putting down poly not the best idea, sounds like a pain in the a$$ to glue it down.

What about primer??? sounds easy enough, shouldn't cost alot. Do I really need anything at all?

I wanted carpet for warmth and cost. I thought the floor would be cold so it'd be nice have the carpet down there. Hard wood is definitely a good idea tho.

I looked at that dricore stuff and it'd cost me about 700 just for the material. :barf:
I'm pretty sure 2x3's and plywood would be alot cheaper

[Masked Bandit]

The Dricore stuff is decent but there is a cheaper way to do the same thing. The plastic waffle component can be purchased in a roll. Then you just put plywood on top. So instead of 2x2 sections you've got 4x8 sections. Fewer seams = fewer problems down the road. My cousin did his with the 2x2 set up and it's nice but it was a royal pain in the ass to do.

[benyl]

They have dricore stuff with foam now that is supposed to have better insulating effect.

I wonder if you can do the same with 4x8 sheets of foam and 4x8 sheet of plywood.

[nonofyobiz]

ya pretty much just build a sub floor with runners (2x4's or 2x3's) laid flat then put that foam in between. I think that's what i'll do if i decide to frame up a sub floor.

I think I gotta work out the cost before I can make my decision.

[black300]

Subfloor ain't that great had it in my basement from previous owner, it's squeaks and it wasn't done right so it's kinda bouncy. Cost a lot of money I would just put a better and thicker sponge and carpet.

[Czar]

Do you need a subfloor or dri core if you have in-slab heating?

[kaput]

.

[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by black300
Subfloor ain't that great had it in my basement from previous owner, it's squeaks and it wasn't done right so it's kinda bouncy. Cost a lot of money I would just put a better and thicker sponge and carpet.

^ This :thumbsup:

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by benyl
They have dricore stuff with foam now that is supposed to have better insulating effect.

I wonder if you can do the same with 4x8 sheets of foam and 4x8 sheet of plywood.

My only concern with using the foam & plywood method would be if you were to get a bit of water / moisture in there. Wouldn't the foam soak it up and create mold problems? With the hard plastic waffle the stuff would just evaporate, no?

Of course this is all theory to me because I wanted it in my house, the Cardel rep told me it was standard procedure for them to use this when they develop the basement but then the phucked me over when the house was actually built and said "oh no, you must be mistaken, we never do that". So all I've got is pad & carpet straight onto the cement. And it's cold. My cousin's house however is much warmer (has the dricore).

I may have mentioned this once before in other threads but it deserves anonther posting...

CARDEL BLOWS!

[benyl]

Originally posted by Masked Bandit


My only concern with using the foam & plywood method would be if you were to get a bit of water / moisture in there. Wouldn't the foam soak it up and create mold problems? With the hard plastic waffle the stuff would just evaporate, no?



Yeah, I am rethinking it.
I think you can get rolls of dimpled plastic that has the same effect. That way you can still use plywood sheets.

[TKRIS]

One thing to consider: Overhead height.
I have several doorways that are under the bulkheads in my basement. Because of the size of some of the bulkheads, I decided to use 2x4 strapping on the underside so I had a solid structure to affix drywall to, and some room for extra insulation.
In my basement, by the time I put a 2x4 under the ducts, then another 2x4 under that as a door header, I'm ~81 1/2" from the ground, which is where I need to be for a prehung door. By my figuring, I should have enough room for trim, and a tiny reveal of drywall above the doors.
If I'd have used an insulated subfloor, I probably wouldn't have enough clearance, would have to rip down a piece of trim, and the whole thing would basically look like shit.
You can, of course, work around this if you know that it's going to be a problem. But you've gotta think about this stuff before you start.

My last place was a bi-level townhouse and the bedrooms and main bath were in the basement. Cheap carpet, cheap underlay, and no subfloor. It was just fine. Wasn't noticeably cold or hard.

[D. Dub]

IMO subfloor is overkill -- unless there are previous issues with moisture.

Quality carpet and quality underlay is sufficient.

[Tik-Tok]

I went from previously finished basment, with only underlay/carpet, to full 2x4/insulation subfloor.

There was a 3*C difference in warmth between the two, which is quite a bit on barefeet. I can't speak for the dricore stuff, haven't experienced it.

[quazimoto]

I personally like the dri-core stuff just because we didnt want carpet in our house and this afforded us the ability to stick engineered hardwood in our basement. knowing you can buy the crap in rolls now has me pissed!

[nonofyobiz]

Originally posted by quazimoto
I personally like the dri-core stuff just because we didnt want carpet in our house and this afforded us the ability to stick engineered hardwood in our basement. knowing you can buy the crap in rolls now has me pissed!

huh? What can u buy in rolls, dri-core?

[PointyWombat]

I used the dri-core stuff and it was a fairly easy install... it works well and is definitely more comfortable on the feet, however, if I were to do it again, I would lay 1" blue-board insulation, then top it off with 5/8" tongue and groove osb, then tapcon it all in... I saw Mike Homes do it that way and it just made a lot of sense. Probably cheaper too. I did 750 sq. ft and it cost me ~$1300 with dricore...

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by nonofyobiz


huh? What can u buy in rolls, dri-core?

You can buy the plastic waffle component in rolls and then you just use plywood subfloor overtop. Like a two component dri-core.

[nonofyobiz]

Originally posted by Masked Bandit


You can buy the plastic waffle component in rolls and then you just use plywood subfloor overtop. Like a two component dri-core.
oh icic, do they sell that home depot? I don't think they do or i'm sure the would have mentioned it to me.


Originally posted by PointyWombat
... if I were to do it again, I would lay 1" blue-board insulation, then top it off with 5/8" tongue and groove osb, then tapcon it all in... I saw Mike Homes do it that way and it just made a lot of sense. Probably cheaper too. I did 750 sq. ft and it cost me ~$1300 with dricore...

Are you talking about that blue foam stuff - it's like 2 ft. wide?
That stuff is like $25-30 for a 2' x 8' ( I think it's 8') piece. pricey.
Also, would there be a problem with moisture underneath?

Rona's website says you can put down 15lb felt paper.

[Kloubek]

That waffle stuff can be purchased inexpensively from Home Improvement Warehouse. It is really a dimpled roll... much like Delta product. (Which is available at the NE Rona I think)

I am planning on putting down a laminate floor in my basement. The guy at Home Depot suggested the Dricore. At Home Improvement Warehouse, they suggested the dimpled plastic, with the standard laminate thin foam over top.

At Rona, the guy said that the plywood doesn't have much insulating value, and suggested I go with a 2-in-1 roll which has both a plastic membrane for moisture control, and an insulated layer which also acts like the thin foam one would normally put down under a laminate floor.

He suggested I buy it, roll it out, and walk on it to see if it has the insulating value I was looking for. He was quite convinced it would be sufficient. So this is what I've done. I have since to get off my ass and test it out though.

Now, this is for a laminate floor... and not carpet; which is your plan. I just thought I'd put it out there.

With all this said, if TikTok truly noticed a 3 degree difference with a subfloor, then that does indeed seem like a better way to go if one has the funds. I'm wondering though TikTok - you say it was 3 degrees different. Did you verify that the temperature of the concrete was identical in both tests somehow?

[D. Dub]

Originally posted by Kloubek
I'm wondering though TikTok - you say it was 3 degrees different. Did you verify that the temperature of the concrete was identical in both tests somehow?

Not to mention ambient temperature changes in the home.

[codetrap]

I did the alternate install in my basement, and from concrete to just the subfloor, there was a 6C average change in the room. Then I added a good quality underday and berber carpet, and the basement stays nice and cozy warm now.

I bought the rolls of the black stuff from timbertown, and tongue and groove OSB from home depot. I taped all the plastic with tuck tape to seal it all up. Then with the OSB I use a 3/4 boring drill bit to miter into the OSB, then I drilled straight through the middle of my indent and secured the OSB down with tapcon concrete bolts. Filled the holes with silicon first, then just bolted the osb to the floor. One other thing I did after putting the osb down was gave it a couple of days to acclimate and shape to the floor. I did the install after I did the framing, but I think you could easily do it before framing if you wanted to, as it would give you something to anchor to provided it's not a load bearing wall.

It's been perfect. No squeaks, no rising/lower etc, and I saved about half the cost of the dricore, with a better sealing job.

[urban.one]

Are you saying to put the OSB under the framing? Wouldnt that cause problems if you ever happened to get water of any sort into the basement and your subfloor got messed especially if its osb?

Also, id consider the thickness of your subfloor and the height of your finished ceiling. Depending on what you want to put into your basement, an inch might be important. (Isnt Dricore 7/8"?)


Originally posted by codetrap
I did the alternate install in my basement, and from concrete to just the subfloor, there was a 6C average change in the room. Then I added a good quality underday and berber carpet, and the basement stays nice and cozy warm now.

I bought the rolls of the black stuff from timbertown, and tongue and groove OSB from home depot. I taped all the plastic with tuck tape to seal it all up. Then with the OSB I use a 3/4 boring drill bit to miter into the OSB, then I drilled straight through the middle of my indent and secured the OSB down with tapcon concrete bolts. Filled the holes with silicon first, then just bolted the osb to the floor. One other thing I did after putting the osb down was gave it a couple of days to acclimate and shape to the floor. I did the install after I did the framing, but I think you could easily do it before framing if you wanted to, as it would give you something to anchor to provided it's not a load bearing wall.

It's been perfect. No squeaks, no rising/lower etc, and I saved about half the cost of the dricore, with a better sealing job.

[codetrap]

Originally posted by urban.one
Are you saying to put the OSB under the framing? Wouldnt that cause problems if you ever happened to get water of any sort into the basement and your subfloor got messed especially if its osb?

Also, id consider the thickness of your subfloor and the height of your finished ceiling. Depending on what you want to put into your basement, an inch might be important. (Isnt Dricore 7/8"?)



Sorry, didn't see your response. No, I did the framing first. Then the flooring around that. I admit I thought about it though, but I guess the difference would be replacing all the walls vs just replacing the bottom foot or two of drywall if I ever had an issue. Then again, if it came to that, it'd be an insurance job anyways, so would it really matter?

I used 3/4 tongue and groove OSB for the sheeting. As for the water resistance... most OSB is rated for "exposure 1" now. I don't think exposure for a few hours would destroy it.. but then again, I could be wrong.

Exterior

Fully waterproof bond. Designed for applications where panels are subject to permanent ongoing exposure to moisture.

Exterior - Exposure 1

Fully waterproof bond, but not intended for permanent ongoing exposure to moisture.

Exterior - Exposure 2

Interior type with intermediate glue. Intended for protected applications where only slight exposure to moisture is likely to occur.