Toyota. Putting profit ahead of safety!

[benyl]

Toyota officials claimed they saved the company $100 million by successfully negotiating with the government on a limited recall of floor mats in some Toyota and Lexus vehicles, according to new documents shared with congressional investigators

Toyota, in an internal presentation in July 2009 at its Washington office, said it saved $100 million or more by negotiating an "equipment recall" of floor mats involving 55,000 Toyota Camry and Lexus ES350 vehicles in September 2007.

The savings are listed under the title, "Wins for Toyota — Safety Group." The document cites millions of dollars in other savings by delaying safety regulations, avoiding defect investigations and slowing down other industry requirements.



http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2010/02/22/toyota-recall-savings.html

This could be bad for Toyota's image.

[scat19]

I just saw a commercial the other day saying " we want you to trust us, that's why we stopped production and sales etc. etc."

Liars.

[Redlyne_mr2]

Ummm... hate to break it to you guys but every automotive company out there puts profits ahead of safety. Sad but true. :(

[Zewind]

Toyota's stock still hasnt really changed.... due to this

Opened this morning 73.18 - Currently 73.1795

[Zephyr]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
Ummm... hate to break it to you guys but every automotive company out there puts profits ahead of safety. Sad but true. :(

I think most large companies are like that :(

[Sil80_D]

the US "probes" are just trying to screw with the asian manufacturers. this was cute at first but now its just getting annoying

[Thaco]

Originally posted by Sil80_D
the US "probes" are just trying to screw with the asian manufacturers. this was cute at first but now its just getting annoying toyota is more north american than ford.

[Kloubek]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
Ummm... hate to break it to you guys but every automotive company out there puts profits ahead of safety. Sad but true. :(

Indeed. Quote from "Fight Club" (yes, I know it is just a movie, but I bet this is true)

"I'm a recall coordinator. My job was to apply the formula. It's simple arithmetic. It's a story problem. A new car built by my company leaves Boston traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now: Do we initiate a recall? You take the number of vehicles in the field (A) and multiply it by the probable rate of failure (B), multiply the result by the average out-of-court settlement (C). A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one."

[Destinova403]

Originally posted by Sil80_D
the US "probes" are just trying to screw with the asian manufacturers. this was cute at first but now its just getting annoying

i think theres some bitterness because of Japans import tariffs on American cars

[benyl]

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2010/02/toyota-slide-safety.jpg

[benyl]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
Ummm... hate to break it to you guys but every automotive company out there puts profits ahead of safety. Sad but true. :(

Yes, but Toyota got caught! haha

[Redlyne_mr2]

Originally posted by benyl


Yes, but Toyota got caught! haha

Haha yep pretty much, the publics expectations on Toyota are also much higher. If this was Ford or MB it wouldn't even make the news.

[Eleanor]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
If this was Ford or MB it wouldn't even make the news. yeah, cause Ford's never had highly publicized recall :rolleyes:

[Sil80_D]

"Secured Tacoma, Scion XB, Corolla, '10 Prius Top Safety Picks' at IIHS"

i wonder if that means bribes lol

[Redlyne_mr2]

Originally posted by Eleanor
yeah, cause Ford's never had highly publicized recall :rolleyes:
Sorry bad example.:dunno:

[benyl]

Originally posted by Eleanor
yeah, cause Ford's never had highly publicized recall :rolleyes:

Off the top of my head:

Ford:
Exploding Pintos
Ignition fires
Rolling Exploder Firestone tires

Mercedes:
2 million E-class and CLS-class cars recalled for faulty brake software in 2005



Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2

Sorry bad example.:dunno:

Nobody is immune.

[Jetta-2.0]

Originally posted by Eleanor
yeah, cause Ford's never had highly publicized recall :rolleyes:

cuz when some thing happens in a ford its either the junkyard or part it out :D

FORD= FOUND ON ROAD DEAD :clap:

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by benyl
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2010/02/toyota-slide-safety.jpg


Lesson learnt here:

Just because you didn't get caught, don't list it as accomplishments.

:rofl:


Originally posted by Sil80_D
the US "probes" are just trying to screw with the asian manufacturers. this was cute at first but now its just getting annoying

For sure. I notice the discounts on Toyota's are crazy like American cars now.

[Zewind]

Originally posted by Sil80_D
"Secured Tacoma, Scion XB, Corolla, '10 Prius Top Safety Picks' at IIHS"

i wonder if that means bribes lol


LOL, new allegations incoming

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by Zewind



LOL, new allegations incoming

Also, that page also hinted at money saved by delaying NCAP. That sure shows safety initiatives.

"equipment", "defect" in quotes has me lol.

[Shlade]

Originally posted by Jetta-2.0


cuz when some thing happens in a ford its either the junkyard or part it out :D

FORD= FIRST ON RACE DAY :clap:


fixed.

[Thaco]

i dont know why people keep bitching about "asian manufacturers" getting hosed, Toyota is not an asian manufacturer, they are more canadian/american than the big 3 (most of the big 3's parts/cars come from from mexico)

[benyl]

Where do the profits go? Asia.

[HiTempguy1]

Exploding Pintos
Ignition fires
Rolling Exploder Firestone tires

Now, I may be incorrect (and am in no way defending car companies that have deserved what they got), but...

Didn't Pinto's only explode when rear-ended? Just sayin'!

And the Exploder tire deal was actually an inflation issue to begin with coupled with poor tire design wasn't it? If somebody actually took responsibility for their actions and maintained their tire pressures, I thought there was no issue? Of course, the exploder was a terrible vehicle to begin with, but I digress...

As for the ignition fires, nothing to say about that! :D

This is all BS IMO. Motor Trend (or Car and Driver, I have the issue) did a test. Engine full throttle plus brakes from 60mph added a whooping 3 feet onto stopping distance in a Camry. Learn how to drive folks!

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
Learn how to drive folks!

Unfortunately, in the land of getting paid for pouring coffee in your own lap, that's too high of a expectation.

[Mr_ET]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
Ummm... hate to break it to you guys but every automotive company out there puts profits ahead of safety. Sad but true. :(

I was gonna say, as bad as this all sounds they all do it and Toyota is only being singled out because of the recent recalls.

This too shall pass.

[benyl]

The pinto case is similar to the problems that Toyota is having.

Ford knew of the issue and refused to change the design that would have cost them $11 per car to fix.

Ford also had similar problems with exploding Crown Victorias.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally posted by benyl
The pinto case is similar to the problems that Toyota is having.

Ford knew of the issue and refused to change the design that would have cost them $11 per car to fix.


This is true.



Ford also had similar problems with exploding Crown Victorias. [/B]

This is not. Claims of exploding CVs were overblown due to the high amount of time that police CVs spend stopped on the side of high-speed roads, thus increasing the number of CVs hit in the rear at huge speed differentials causing the fuel tank to rupture. The CV fuel tank design was found to meet all applicable safety standards, and Ford has never once been found liable for any CV fire.

[Eleanor]

Originally posted by benyl
The pinto case is similar to the problems that Toyota is having.

Ford knew of the issue and refused to change the design that would have cost them $11 per car to fix. Bingo! We have a winner. This case is extremely similar to the Pinto fiasco, and Ford got slayed for that one, why shouldn't we be even tougher on Toyota? After all, shouldn't everyone have learned from Ford's mistake?

[benyl]

Originally posted by BerserkerCatSplat

This is not. Claims of exploding CVs were overblown due to the high amount of time that police CVs spend stopped on the side of high-speed roads, thus increasing the number of CVs hit in the rear at huge speed differentials causing the fuel tank to rupture. The CV fuel tank design was found to meet all applicable safety standards, and Ford has never once been found liable for any CV fire.

They haven't been found liable, but they did spend $50 Million to fix the issue:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/07/22/eveningnews/main515830.shtml

[Redlyne_jr]

fuck can we beat this issue with a stick anymore haha.. i think we get the point toyota fucked up lol this is like the 20th thread on this topic :banghead:

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally posted by benyl


They haven't been found liable, but they did spend $50 Million to fix the issue:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/07/22/eveningnews/main515830.shtml

So Ford spends $50 mil in good faith to protect the gas tanks from penetration by the non-OEM equipment installed by the police departments, and you still think that's akin to the Pinto fiasco? :rolleyes:

[Team_Mclaren]

LOL, toyota fanboys are out in full force!!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: epic fail!!!:facepalm:

[Xtrema]

ABC News replicated the issue?

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/02/22/video-smoking-gun-abc-news-expert-recreates-sudden-acceleratio/#continued

Or is it a fake to cash in on the Toyota bashwagon?

[Kavy]

Originally posted by Xtrema
ABC News replicated the issue?

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/02/22/video-smoking-gun-abc-news-expert-recreates-sudden-acceleratio/#continued

Or is it a fake to cash in on the Toyota bashwagon?

This is retarded IMO. He hacks the throttle system and uses that to prove a point?

I am going to issue a test thats along the same lines.

Im going to put a brick on the gas pedal to "simulate" ice build up on the gas pedal and see if the car accelerates.

[Kavy]

Stupid Iphone double post

[Redlyne_mr2]

Originally posted by Team_Mclaren
LOL, toyota fanboys are out in full force!!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: epic fail!!!:facepalm:
Is it really that funny? :dunno: Has nothing to do with being a fanboy, other than my FJ cruiser there is no new Toyota that I would buy, they aren't my style at all. The annoyance is geared towards the media and the US government who is doing their usual job of causing unnecessary fear and doing more harm than good. Where else in the world do you see governments getting involved and the media going crazy about a situation that happens everyday in the automotive industry?

[Team_Mclaren]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2

Is it really that funny? :dunno: Has nothing to do with being a fanboy, other than my FJ cruiser there is no new Toyota that I would buy, they aren't my style at all. The annoyance is geared towards the media and the US government who is doing their usual job of causing unnecessary fear and doing more harm than good. Where else in the world do you see governments getting involved and the media going crazy about a situation that happens everyday in the automotive industry?

well obviously it doesn't happen everyday in the automotive history. The last time the media/government raised hell in regarding an automotive recall in this magnitude was the tire issue with the explorer.

You make it sound like that toyota is only getting bad press because they are toyota.... How do you figure all the domestic manufacturers got such a negative image over the years?

[Zephyr]

Originally posted by Team_Mclaren


well obviously it doesn't happen everyday in the automotive history. The last time the media/government raised hell in regarding an automotive recall in this magnitude was the tire issue with the explorer.

You make it sound like that toyota is only getting bad press because they are toyota.... How do you figure all the domestic manufacturers got such a negative image over the years?

I think the negative press for Toyota is much worse than any negative press a domestic car maker has gotten so far. Especially how information spreads and can be distorted so easily these days. The Ford Exploder was only limited to traditional media, but Toyota faces the new viral media which is total chaos.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by Zephyr


I think the negative press for Toyota is much worse than any negative press a domestic car maker has gotten so far. Especially how information spreads and can be distorted so easily these days. The Ford Exploder was only limited to traditional media, but Toyota faces the new viral media which is total chaos.

Yep, blogs which blows things out of proportion are not helping. It probably won't even be that big of a deal if GM isn't Government Motors.

[Aleks]

It's the same thing that is happening to Tiger Woods. Way too much attention because people love drama.

[Xtrema]

In the case of the Chevy Cobalt there were 1,157 complaints about steering issues before the recall was started, while the Toyota Corolla had registered just 84 complaints before that recall was announced. Even more telling was the fact that NHTSA took an average of 262 days to conclude an investigation before launching a recall, but the range was curiously wide – from just 10 days to a full six years, according to the Edmunds.com report.

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/02/23/edmunds-looks-at-toyota-corolla-chevy-cobalt-steering-complaint

[Redlyne_mr2]

Originally posted by Team_Mclaren


well obviously it doesn't happen everyday in the automotive history. The last time the media/government raised hell in regarding an automotive recall in this magnitude was the tire issue with the explorer.

You make it sound like that toyota is only getting bad press because they are toyota.... How do you figure all the domestic manufacturers got such a negative image over the years?
What makes you think it doesn't happen every day in the auto industry? Of course it does, almost every vehicle that exist has some sort of recall. Most of the time recalls are issued because the problem can be life threatening If they aren't serious enough to be life threatening then a TSB is issued. Toyota is getting bad press because they are Toyota, Chrysler and GM are owned by the US government so it's in their best interest that Toyota fails. As I mentioned you don't see any other governments in the world going to the lengths that the US government has to damage Toyota's reputation. The domestic manufacturers destroyed their reputation over a period of decades, if you look at the statistics Toyota is still well above industry average in terms of quality surpassing makes such as BMW, VW, Nissan, GM etc. I'll be the first to admit that their quality has slipped over the last 5 years so in essence this is a wake up call for them but things didn't need to get blown out of proportion in the way they did.

As Aleks mentioned this is very much like the Tiger Woods incident, who honestly cares how many girls he's been with? Hang around with professional athletes and you will soon see that infidelity, girlfriends on the side and even wive swapping are not uncommon. People just love to hate you when you're at the top, it makes them feel better about themselves when they're at the bottom.

[benyl]

Time will tell.

Ford went from selling half a million Exploders per year to barely selling just over 50K last year.

Even the president of Toyota is saying they were focused on getting bigger:


"Quite frankly, I fear the pace at which we have grown may have been too quick," Toyoda said in the statement.

"We pursued growth over the speed at which we were able to develop our people and our organization," he said. "I regret that this has resulted in the safety issues described in the recalls we face today, and I am deeply sorry for any accidents that Toyota drivers have experienced."

http://money.cnn.com/2010/02/23/autos/Akio_Toyoda_testimony/index.htm?hpt=T1

[CivicTunr]

What about the fact when i went to rent a car on the weekend. Toyota rented all the cars from enterprise so they were still making money, instead of having them just sit there.

I dont think chevy, gmc, etc would do anything like that extent.

[SilverRex]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2

What makes you think it doesn't happen every day in the auto industry? Of course it does, almost every vehicle that exist has some sort of recall. Most of the time recalls are issued because the problem can be life threatening If they aren't serious enough to be life threatening then a TSB is issued. Toyota is getting bad press because they are Toyota, Chrysler and GM are owned by the US government so it's in their best interest that Toyota fails. As I mentioned you don't see any other governments in the world going to the lengths that the US government has to damage Toyota's reputation. The domestic manufacturers destroyed their reputation over a period of decades, if you look at the statistics Toyota is still well above industry average in terms of quality surpassing makes such as BMW, VW, Nissan, GM etc. I'll be the first to admit that their quality has slipped over the last 5 years so in essence this is a wake up call for them but things didn't need to get blown out of proportion in the way they did.

As Aleks mentioned this is very much like the Tiger Woods incident, who honestly cares how many girls he's been with? Hang around with professional athletes and you will soon see that infidelity, girlfriends on the side and even wive swapping are not uncommon. People just love to hate you when you're at the top, it makes them feel better about themselves when they're at the bottom.

while I agree toyota is still above average but I think alot has changed and I have a friend who just purchased a 2008 high lander in oct09, needless to say he is now wanting to sell it because of a extremely impossible to ignore dashboard rattle which toyota refuse to fix and a grinding noise that comes when the car is in gear again toyota refuse to fix again or even look at it.

this is not the only incident, I have another friend who his entire family line had nothing but V6 camrys, then when he got his, he gets this clicking noise every time before he engages his car, went to the dealership, manager you name it, he went to great lengths and at the end of the day, no fix.

and I have another person who is thinking of getting rid of his 2010 corolla but I havent ask exactly whats the issue.

:thumbsdow

there is a old chinese saying that you cant stay at the top for ever.