RCMP using 'L' Plates - is this entrapment?

[Blackpool]

I recently received a dubious speeding ticket from the RCMP on highway 99 (sea-to-sky-highway). I intend to dispute the ticket. This officer was in front of me on the highway just before Squamish where the speed limit changes from 80 to 50Km/h. He pulls over as I am slowing down, breaks, pulls in behind me and of course lights me up after only following me for about 200 yards. What I find somewhat troubling is he used an [L] plate on the car. Is this entrapment and use of a provincial sticker illegally? What distance do the police have to tail you to determine your speed in this sort of circumstances?

[GQBalla]

why would it be entrapment?

i would think it would be the same as using a ghost car or something

[R154]

whats an L plate?

[Supa Dexta]

learners I think.

[kenny]

L sticker for Learners, N sticker for n00b.

[Wrinkly]

Maybe it's his own car and his kid's learning...lol

[benyl]

I listening to the radio a few days ago and apparently the CPS have an Escalade driven as a ghost car. They are also getting more as the province gave a funding grant for more officers and more vehicles.

[Jay911]

Entrapment means that you are lured into performing an illegal act that you wouldn't have done otherwise.

Having a Learner sticker on a vehicle is not entrapment.

Pulling up beside you at a stoplight and goading you into racing would be entrapment.

[benyl]

Originally posted by Jay911

Pulling up beside you at a stoplight and goading you into racing would be entrapment.

I don't think that is entrapment either.

If he pulled up, rolled down the window and explained to you why it was a good idea to race and how fun it would and then you complied, that would be entrapment.

If you look over and he nods and you nod, then the law basically says you were "willing" to race and break the law.

[SJW]

Pay up sucka and stop speeding.

[Xtrema]

Nothing wrong with it IMO.

[lilmira]

Originally posted by SJW
Pay up sucka and stop speeding.

Or stop getting caught speeding.

[beyond_ban]

Originally posted by lilmira


Or stop getting caught speeding.

*waits for beyond "i'm perfect" response*

[SJW]

I always "got" caught. So I don't speed anymore in the city.

[Masked Bandit]

They don't have to "tail" you to hit you with radar. They can do it while going the same direction as you (in front) if the vehicle is set up for it.

[Blackpool]

Some of that wasn't very useful. Thanks to those of you with practical answers. Just to clarify, I was not speeding (I pay if I speed without exception). I just think putting a Provincial learners plate [L] on a RCMP police vehicle is suspect. In addition this fellow did not use radar, he paced me. So what are the laws governing pacing a car in BC? Does anyone know? Is pacing a car that is decelerating over 200 yards within the bounds of the law?

Practical answers please. Angry, sniping and opinionated criticism has no value.

[swak]

Ive driven by those vans parked along side the road with cameras in them WITH National car rental bumper stickers.

[revelations]

Go on to bcsportbikes.com and do a search on this.

A motorcyclist went through a similar scenario on Highway #1 around the Willingdon area (I think)....apparently the unmarked cop was riding his ass (a safety issue and a HUGE pet peeve for riders) and the rider sped up a bit to gain some distance.....entrapment.

The RCMP, VPD etc. traffic used cars with BUDGET RENTAL stickers on the bumper. Is this entrapment?





(I think not)

[SJW]

Originally posted by Blackpool
Some of that wasn't very useful. Thanks to those of you with practical answers. Just to clarify, I was not speeding (I pay if I speed without exception). I just think putting a Provincial learners plate [L] on a RCMP police vehicle is suspect. In addition this fellow did not use radar, he paced me. So what are the laws governing pacing a car in BC? Does anyone know? Is pacing a car that is decelerating over 200 yards within the bounds of the law?

Practical answers please. Angry, sniping and opinionated criticism has no value.

I'd say you have a good case to present. Give it a try. Based on the decel. Cops just want to fill quotas to go for it.

[Mibz]

Originally posted by Blackpool
Just to clarify, I was not speeding (I pay if I speed without exception). It sounds like you entered the 50 zone behind the cop and then started to slow down after he pulled over.


I just think putting a Provincial learners plate [L] on a RCMP police vehicle is suspect. Why? There's no law preventing you from putting one on your car :P


In addition this fellow did not use radar, he paced me. So what are the laws governing pacing a car in BC? Does anyone know? Is pacing a car that is decelerating over 200 yards within the bounds of the law? If the laws are anything like Alberta, yes. They don't need more than a couple seconds to accurately gauge your speed.

[ShermanEF9]

Originally posted by Mibz


Why? There's no law preventing you from putting one on your car :P



there is actually.

[Mibz]

Originally posted by ShermanEF9
there is actually. I couldn't find it. Link/#?

EDIT: In fact it looks like DriveSmartBC agrees with me

There is no rule that states that a driver other than one in the GLP cannot display an L or N sign.
http://www.drivesmartbc.ca/faq

[kamakurakid]

Suck it up and be an adult, you were speeding. Fight it, I hope the judge nails you for wasting tax money listening to a child cry about injustice of being held accountable for your actions. Imagine that.

A cop can drive a frickin ice cream truck and cut law breakers tickets. It is their job.

[GTS4tw]

Originally posted by Mibz


Why? There's no law preventing you from putting one on your car :P


There is though! I think that is his point.


Edit: Oops, too slow! I know of two different people pulled over and told to remove the "L" as they were not actual "L" drivers. Now I am going to look into it more.

But more on point, this is BC, the cops can break the law and get away with it if they feel like it.

[bjstare]

Originally posted by Jay911
Entrapment means that you are lured into performing an illegal act that you wouldn't have done otherwise.

Having a Learner sticker on a vehicle is not entrapment.

Pulling up beside you at a stoplight and goading you into racing would be entrapment.

This is the first thing that went through my head when I read the title. Seems like only a select few people actually know what entrapment means.

[Eleanor]

Originally posted by Jay911
Pulling up beside you at a stoplight and goading you into racing would be entrapment. Better not be.

Entrapment would be "Kill this guy, or else I kill your sister" and then arrest him for killing the guy. That's entrapment.

[signature7]

Originally posted by Jay911
Entrapment means that you are lured into performing an illegal act that you wouldn't have done otherwise.

Having a Learner sticker on a vehicle is not entrapment.

Pulling up beside you at a stoplight and goading you into racing would be entrapment.


I'm a bit confused, I thought there were no "entrapment" laws in Canada so to speak.

I mean, what about prostitute sting where she's actually a cop? Don't mean to bring this off topic, I just need a better understanding of our entrapment laws.

[Cos]

Originally posted by signature7



I'm a bit confused, I thought there were no "entrapment" laws in Canada so to speak.

I mean, what about prostitute sting where she's actually a cop? Don't mean to bring this off topic, I just need a better understanding of our entrapment laws.

Again no one is forcing you to hire the prostitute.

Define entrapment:


a defence that claims the defendant would not have broken the law if not tricked into doing it by law enforcement officials

I dont think the defence "but officer if she wasnt a cop I wouldn't have hired her" would stick.

[luxor]

Originally posted by signature7



I'm a bit confused, I thought there were no "entrapment" laws in Canada so to speak.

I mean, what about prostitute sting where she's actually a cop? Don't mean to bring this off topic, I just need a better understanding of our entrapment laws.

Those "prostitutes" don't lure potential Johns to them, they are approached by the Johns instead. See the difference?


Now, let us all go back screaming ENTRAPMENT when we have no fucking clue what it means. :rolleyes:

http://www.carzi.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/ontario-undercover-police-taxi.jpg

[signature7]

Ahh I see. I never been clear about the subject before, thanks for clarifying.

[methodicreign]

actually OP might have a point, all be it a moot one. It is considered a government issue information sign, or something like that, the exact definition eludes me right now. Meaning the government has issued you a sign to inform other drivers of your skill level or intention. it would be like a large truck displaying it's wide load sign without actually having a wide load. It's kind of a grey area, but I for one would want to bring it up at least, you were caught speeding cut and dry, so own up to it and do the right thing, but I would definatly look into it further and if you really want to push the subject you could pull the all time favorite american bullshit lawer responce of "well your honor this vehicle was being driving illegally and if it wasn't for the officers initial infraction he would not have been at that spot on the highway to catch my client and therefor the charge is null and void."
I hate americans and thier lawsuit happy lifestyle, they have fucked up the world to the point of no return. on a funny side note, I saw a hooker/cop sting in action, and the first thing that tipped me off that her being a cop was she was hot, I mean triple take while driving hot. The guy behind me pulled over, and by the time I pulled into the chinese food places parking lot there was cops all over his truck and he was being pulled out. It was the greatest thing I ever saw a cop do

[revelations]

Originally posted by methodicreign
I saw a hooker/cop sting in action, and the first thing that tipped me off that her being a cop was she was hot, I mean triple take while driving hot.

If she was THAT hot, I'd consider that male entrapment :poosie:

[davidI]

This thread is full of fail.

Entrapment
n. in criminal law, the act of law enforcement officers or government agents inducing or encouraging a person to commit a crime when the potential criminal expresses a desire not to go ahead. The key to entrapment is whether the idea for the commission or encouragement of the criminal act originated with the police or government agents instead of with the "criminal." Entrapment, if proved, is a defense to a criminal prosecution. The accused often claims entrapment in so-called "stings" in which undercover agents buy or sell narcotics, prostitutes' services or arrange to purchase goods believed to be stolen. The factual question is: Would Johnny Begood have purchased the drugs if not pressed by the narc?

[JustinGTP]

So, was the cop speeding in the 50 as well then, since he was in front of you, before pulling over to get you?

[Cozmanator]

Originally posted by revelations
apparently the unmarked cop was riding his ass (a safety issue and a HUGE pet peeve for riders) and the rider sped up a bit to gain some distance


Heck I hate when people tailgate when im speeding, like sure I understand when your going limit or under. But just yesterday I was going maybe 70 in a 50, and some hick in his pickup was tailgating me no joke at around 3-4 feet... if I woulda been with my old beater I woulda just braced and slammed the fuckin brakes.... ENSPCIALLY if i saw it was a cop doing it, like heck... they look to ticket anybody for ANY reason.

[exodus989]

I thought cops jobs were to prevent crimes? How are they supposed to prevent crimes if their presence is unknown in an area, ala ghost cars. If the bump of visible enforcements on certain highways, will that not cause people to slow down?

We see that all the time here: "Cop on xxx running speed trap" -> The cops achieve their goal by getting people to slow down and be more cautious in the area? Now how are they doing it with ghost cars?

[tom_9109]

Why does everyone think because entrapment has the word trap in it that anytime they catch you its entrapment? Is common sense lost on everyone?

[Dumbass17]

oh FFS, JUST DON'T SPEED adn you don't have to worry

[schmooot]

I know that they can give you a ticket for having a L decal on your car if you don't have an L license. So does the cop have a learners license?

I don't know about AB but in BC the L and N decals are just magnetic stick-ons.

My guess is maybe somebody played a joke and stuck one on his car and he didn't know it was there, then I would have definitely asked the cop (respectfully of course) if it was illegal to display a learners sticker when you are not a learner and see if he clues in or gives you some lame excuse.

[Mibz]

Originally posted by schmooot
I know that they can give you a ticket for having a L decal on your car if you don't have an L license. Not that the topic is really relevant anymore, but it would be a big help if you could link to the law that says that.

[revelations]

Originally posted by exodus989
I thought cops jobs were to prevent crimes? How are they supposed to prevent crimes if their presence is unknown in an area, ala ghost cars. If the bump of visible enforcements on certain highways, will that not cause people to slow down?

We see that all the time here: "Cop on xxx running speed trap" -> The cops achieve their goal by getting people to slow down and be more cautious in the area? Now how are they doing it with ghost cars?

Proactive policing is a much smaller part of a typical police officers job as compared to reactive policing.

[J-D]

Originally posted by swak
Ive driven by those vans parked along side the road with cameras in them WITH National car rental bumper stickers.

Nailed me on 14th yesterday night doing 10 over while I was avoiding all the people swerving.

Good use of resources (I know I was speeding and deserve it haha)

[Alak]

Originally posted by J-D


Nailed me on 14th yesterday night doing 10 over while I was avoiding all the people swerving.

Good use of resources (I know I was speeding and deserve it haha)

They've got some balls to step out on the road among all the other speeding cars to select a single speeding car. Especially in the dark.

[chkolny541]

wait, so you were speeding, cop nailed you for speeding, and the best defence you have to fight the ticket is a small fucking magnet??


:dunno: :dunno: going to have to come up with something better than that

[kdwebber]

Originally posted by exodus989
I thought cops jobs were to prevent crimes? How are they supposed to prevent crimes if their presence is unknown in an area, ala ghost cars. If the bump of visible enforcements on certain highways, will that not cause people to slow down?

We see that all the time here: "Cop on xxx running speed trap" -> The cops achieve their goal by getting people to slow down and be more cautious in the area? Now how are they doing it with ghost cars?

the answer is simple and quite apparent to me, not sure why it isn't to you.

the fact that you know that the ghost cars are out there is a deterrent not to speed, because you never know where they are.

and if you don't know they are out there then you are completely out to lunch

[J-D]

Originally posted by Alak


They've got some balls to step out on the road among all the other speeding cars to select a single speeding car. Especially in the dark.

Was a photo-radar minivan. Lots of flashing, I was not the only one by any stretch

[Kennyredline]

Originally posted by Blackpool
Some of that wasn't very useful. Thanks to those of you with practical answers. Just to clarify, I was not speeding (I pay if I speed without exception). I just think putting a Provincial learners plate [L] on a RCMP police vehicle is suspect. In addition this fellow did not use radar, he paced me. So what are the laws governing pacing a car in BC? Does anyone know? Is pacing a car that is decelerating over 200 yards within the bounds of the law?

Practical answers please. Angry, sniping and opinionated criticism has no value.
So if you weren't speeding, why did you get pulled over? You do realise that you need to be AT 50KM/HR when you get to the the 50km/hr sign...if you're still over the "buffer" when you enter the new limit, you're speeding.
With regards to this "entrapment"...if the cops was dressed up as a moose holding a sign advertising a flower shop, he can still give you a ticket.

[schmooot]

Originally posted by Mibz
Not that the topic is really relevant anymore, but it would be a big help if you could link to the law that says that.

Not sure exactly, I just got threatened with it by a cop once...he could have been blowing smoke out of his ass though.

The only real thing I can find ion the MVA about the signs is section 30



New driver sign condition for Class 7L, 8L, 7 and 8 licences

30.10 (1) In this section, new driver sign means a sign, issued by the Insurance Corporation of British Columbia for the purposes of this section, to indicate that a motor vehicle is being driven by a person who is learning to drive or by a novice driver.

(2) Subject to the exception set out in subsection (3), a person to whom a Class 7L or 8L licence is issued must not operate a motor vehicle of a category designated in section 30.01 (2) for that class of driver's licence unless a new driver sign depicting the letter "L" is clearly visible and prominently displayed from the rear of the motor vehicle or trailer, as the case may be.

(3) The new driver sign condition under subsection (2) does not apply in the course of the person receiving practical driver training conducted in accordance with Division 27 by a licensed driver training instructor, unless the practical driver training is being conducted in a private vehicle under section 27.09 (7).

(4) Subject to the exception set out in subsection (5), a person to whom a Class 7 or 8 licence is issued must not operate a motor vehicle of a category designated in section 30.01 (2) for that class of driver's licence unless a new driver sign depicting the letter "N" is clearly visible and prominently displayed from the rear of the motor vehicle or trailer, as the case may be.

(5) The new driver sign condition under subsection (4) does not a apply in the course of the person receiving practical driver training conducted in accordance with Division 27 by a licensed driver training instructor, unless the practical driver training is being conducted in a private vehicle under section 27.09 (7).




maybe there isnt a law:dunno:

[scat19]

Originally posted by Masked Bandit
They don't have to "tail" you to hit you with radar. They can do it while going the same direction as you (in front) if the vehicle is set up for it.

I did some reconassiance once while riding in the back of an RCMP's cop car.

The radar is only set up for oncoming traffic and I was surprised how close the opposing car was before they read your speed.

Also - There is no forward facing radar for cars in front, they get your speed by following you at your speed.

[chkolny541]

Originally posted by scat19


I did some reconassiance once while riding in the back of an RCMP's cop car.



haha i fucking lol'd