Business or Engineering...can't decide

[The BMW Guy]

Can't decide between the two, I'm heading off to UofC next year once I graduate from High School.

I'm interested in both business and engineering. But I can't seem to get my decision straight...one day it will be engineering, the next I will want to go to business.
Right now I am unsure of what to go into.

I have been good at "making money" since I was a little kid selling off my bikes to get money for better ones, then selling the better ones to buy even better ones. I think I went from a $200 (Canadian Tire) bike at age 13 to a $2200 bike (Giant Glory for you bikers) when I was 15. Never lost any money on my sales, only made profit which was used to buy a better bike.
Nowadays I sell other things (legally!), selling electronics. I've made roughly $1000 in profits in the last two months...not bad in my mind for the amount of work I do.

Anyways, so there's my business side. But I'm also interested in the sciences. My grades are top notch (+90% in sciences) and I'm taking all the high level courses right now, including some university level chemistry/math. Right now I am very interested in engineering, building and fixing things has also been a hobby of mine. I always work on the car and I like to solve for variables and do those tricky physic problems.

But I'm still undecided on which route would be most beneficial to me. I am uncertain.

So I thought maybe some of you engineering/business students/graduates could chime in and let me know the pros/cons of each faculty or the field.

I know in business if I don't go into it directly from high school I will have to wait until my 3rd year of university before I can get accepted. But I would get lots of space for options so I can "explore" the various subjects the university has to offer.
On the other hand, in engineering I can only have one option block, the rest are picked out for me already. So not much exploring if I want to do other things.

Not sure which would be best for me right now.
Perhaps others in other fields could chime in as well, I'd appreciate all the opinions I can get.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!! :thumbsup:

[dandia89]

you could always do your engineering degree then do your mba, which is a mixture of both.

[2Valve0]

I was exactly like you by the sounds of it, I've been making money since I could remeber, or scamming kids in trades for pokemon cards. My average going into UofC was 96%, sciences, maths, anything you name it. I chose business. My first mistake was going to UofC at all. The level of teaching at this school is horrible in most business classes, and I've heard in many ENGG classes as well. For example, I have this dumb ass teacher today who droned on for 30 minutes in accounting about fuck all to do with anything(some solar powered houses) when we have a midterm saturday and havn't finished all the material, good teacher right?

My suggestion to you would be DO NOT GO TO SCHOOL IN CALGARY! If your like me and have to much here that you can't leave then your shit out of luck haha.

But as for your question most people I know in business have alot of fun, where as everyone I know in ENGG are stresscases with no lives to be honest. Always complaining about assignments and how they never have time to do anything, see friends etc. This is just what the kids I know in ENGG are like though may not represent all(I only know about 10 ppl in ENGG).
If your getting 90's in highschool and you were like me that didn't have to study crazy and have no life to get them, I'd suggest business to be honest because I don't study much or apply myself 100% and still am doing good. If you are one of the people who study all day and don't have a life, I'd suggest ENGG because it seems like thats what they do.

Just remember if you go into business always check rate my prof before you go into a class because we have alot of horrible damn teachers, could give you a list to run and hide from.

:dunno:

[msommers]

Do you want to work your ass off or dress up for school:rofl: :rofl: I kid I kid

[Dr_Funk]

^^I would have to disagree. I finished engineering last year and I never really had to study all day and night. Yes there are definitely kids who did nothing but study, but there are people like that in all faculties. Its up to you on how you handle the stress. Some people don't handle it very well so they study study and study. Others are better at managing time so can get more done in shorter time.

The first 2 years of engineering are fairly difficult, but its nothing that would prevent you from having a life. If anything I found the engineering kids party alot more than other faculties. The final 2 years of engineering are so much better. The profs are better, and you actually are learning in the department of your choice so no more taking classes that you don't really care much for.

Also with the Schulich funds, you get to a lot of opportunities to travel abroad to conferences and exchange programs and such.

As a precautionary note though, most engineering through the UofC are towards the energy side and most jobs in calgary are energy-related. So if that's not what you want, you may want to consider business or go to a different engineering school.

[dandia89]

Originally posted by 2Valve0

If your getting 90's in highschool and you were like me that didn't have to study crazy and have no life to get them, I'd suggest business to be honest because I don't study much or apply myself 100% and still am doing good. If you are one of the people who study all day and don't have a life, I'd suggest ENGG because it seems like thats what they do.


you know what, i'd like to agree with this to some extent, but if you really have a passion for pursuing something, you'll change your habits to study more. i didn't study at all in highschool and barely got by, i had to do a year of compsci just so i could transfer into engg, and i'm spending so much more time studying and doing much better than i did in highschool. and if you study smart, you won't have to put in all those hours as most people do.

[SJW]

Do you wanna be rich or just well off and shit on by society?

[davidI]

Definitely Engineering.

I did my BComm and regret it.

In a lot of industries, the CEO / COO / CFO are all Engineers. This especially applies to resource, chemical and manufacturing companies.

As someone else pointed out, you can move on to do your MBA down the road if you want to build up your business knowledge.

All of the things I thought I'd be doing with a business degree are done by Engineers in my company (large oil and gas). There is a brotherhood amongst engineers where they seem to look at anyone not holding a B.Eng as inferior or incapable of doing certain jobs (even economics or portfolio management jobs which one would think would fall within the realm of a BComm grad). I personally disagree with their view, but there's nothing I can do about it.

Remember, an engineer can become a businessman - businessmen cannot become engineers.

[CHICHARITZHI]

Originally posted by davidI
Definitely Engineering.

I did my BComm and regret it.

In a lot of industries, the CEO / COO / CFO are all Engineers. This especially applies to resource, chemical and manufacturing companies.

As someone else pointed out, you can move on to do your MBA down the road if you want to build up your business knowledge.

All of the things I thought I'd be doing with a business degree are done by Engineers in my company (large oil and gas). There is a brotherhood amongst engineers where they seem to look at anyone not holding a B.Eng as inferior or incapable of doing certain jobs (even economics or portfolio management jobs which one would think would fall within the realm of a BComm grad). I personally disagree with their view, but there's nothing I can do about it.

Remember, an engineer can become a businessman - businessmen cannot become engineers.


i agree businessman cannot become engineers but they become a billionaires..:D

[pf0sh0]

Originally posted by CHICHARITZHI



i agree businessman cannot become engineers but they become a billionaires..:D

So can engineers... lol

[CHICHARITZHI]

Originally posted by pf0sh0


So can engineers... lol

no, because they don't wanna be a seller. they're engineers..:D

[believe]

Originally posted by davidI


Remember, an engineer can become a businessman - businessmen cannot become engineers.

This.

Most people I know who are interested in business are interested in doing MBA programs down the road. You can absolutely still do this with an engineering degree. On the flip side, a Commerce student would not be able to obtain a P.Eng and what not, so if you change your mind about business later, you still have a pretty good fall back.

[The BMW Guy]

So why can't businessmen become engineers exactly?
Can you guys elaborate more on this.

[msommers]

You could, but you'd have to go back to school to get your degree.

[2Valve0]

I'm in business and could become an engineer?
Business students, by history, will on average make more money then engineers both graduating from UofC without a doubt. An engineer can become a businessman but engineers after they're schooling I found have a very different mentality than what you need for business, not all but most.

[CHICHARITZHI]

Originally posted by The BMW Guy
So why can't businessmen become engineers exactly?
Can you guys elaborate more on this.


many answers....

businessmen =seller

engineers = builder

:D

[tobslau]

I'd say eng if you had to choose. Some say its easy or hard. In my opinion i think the workload and difficulty is much greater in eng. I've got plenty of friends in ENG who have a WAY bigger workload than me.

In reference to your high school marks, it doesn't matter what you have. In general, there is a large margin between the difficulty of high school and university. That being said, if you've got a great work ethic then it doesn't matter what level of education you are at. There are the prodigies and "smart" people who choose to work hard.

In the end, no matter what you choose, just do well in it. In the words of my father, it's not about the choices you want to make, its about the choices you have access to. So if you keep your grades up, you can always xfer to a different program.

And realistically speaking, it's perfectly normal to not know what you want to do. You decide what you really want to do after experiencing life events, whether it's an education program or a career. Things are always different from your point of view.

As for the University of Calgary:
While I think it isn't that great of a school, if you do poorly you can't blame anyone but yourself. Profs do make a big differences, but i find the people who bitch and moan about the University and teaching staff are the ones who just failing and want to blame someone/something. If profs are huge deal to you, just make sure to research up on who the best profs are around for the particular course (yes, I know sometimes you are stuck with a shitty prof, but common it's not like other university has bad professors as well)

That being said, my biggest regret was going to UC. I really would have liked to study abroad, but it is natural to understand if you have a financial constraint.

[2Valve0]

Originally posted by tobslau


As for the University of Calgary:
While I think it isn't that great of a school, if you do poorly you can't blame anyone but yourself. Profs do make a big differences, but i find the people who bitch and moan about the University and teaching staff are the ones who just failing and want to blame someone/something. If profs are huge deal to you, just make sure to research up on who the best profs are around for the particular course (yes, I know sometimes you are stuck with a shitty prof, but common it's not like other university has bad professors as well)


Haha I bitch and moan about lots of the horrible teachers and I'm one of the top if not top in the class. I think people who bitch are ones who expect more then a teacher who can barely speak english or ones that cancel 5 lectures a semester, or ones that just don't give a shit about you or your marks?

[tobslau]

Originally posted by 2Valve0
I'm in business and could become an engineer?
Business students, by history, will on average make more money then engineers both graduating from UofC without a doubt. An engineer can become a businessman but engineers after they're schooling I found have a very different mentality than what you need for business, not all but most.

Sorry to double post, but on average engineers have a higher initial salary.

On what basis would you even say that business students will on average make more money than engineers. Not only have you not specified what field of business, you don't even need to go to school to be a business man. If you work for a large company, you are going to have to learn most of the basic business processes.

And you learn business mentality at school?? :bullshit:
This idea is why we have so many people graduating haskayne expecting 6 figure starting salaries.
School does minimal on your performance at work. You learn everything about how to excel in your career in your career. Personality also plays a big part.

Just to add, many of my wealthy family and friends who started their own businesses, began as engineers.

Note: I'm not in eng, I'm actually a B.A. Economics, so I'm not biased towards eng or anything

Edit: Can't spell...sigh

[2Valve0]

^^
Are you saying that a good engineer in their lifetime will make more money than a good businessman? I call :bullshit: on that. Obviously ENG's make more starting salary? Business you work your way up, and fast if you have any common sense and people skills.

Just to add many family members of mine and friends that are engineers continued to be engineers and are very well of but not rich by any means.

I'm not going to try to argue that in a lifetime a business student will make more then an engineering student, its pretty obvious unless you get a tourism or economics degree and don't continue to go to school?

I'm not very biased either I think UofC sucks altogether haha I would rather have went overseas, U.S. or even Toronto but couldn't :dunno:

[sneek]

Originally posted by tobslau


Sorry to double post, but on average engineers have a higher initial salary.

On what basis would you even say that business students will on average make more money than engineers. Not only have you not specified what field of business, you don't even need to go to school to be a business man. If you work for a large company, you are going to have to learn most of the basic business processes.

And you learn business mentality at school?? :bullshit:
This idea is why we have so many people graduating haskayne expecting 6 figure starting salaries.
School does minimal on your performance at work. You learn everything about how to excel in your career in your career. Personality also plays a big part.

Just to add, many of my wealthy family and friends who started their own businesses, began as engineers.

Note: I'm not in eng, I'm actually a B.A. Economics, so I'm not biased towards eng or anything

Edit: Can't spell...sigh

It is sad that I agree with you and I am in Haskayne.
One big thing for business is people skills. A good buddy of mine just graduated a few years ago from Engg, and is happily not using anything from school. He is a very friendly people person and as a result is in a manager role requiring no technical knowledge.

2Valve0: Believe it or not there are a lot of people with Finance degrees from U of C that work as bank tellers...haha it actually scares me.

[davidI]

Originally posted by 2Valve0
^^
Are you saying that a good engineer in their lifetime will make more money than a good businessman? I call :bullshit: on that. Obviously ENG's make more starting salary? Business you work your way up, and fast if you have any common sense and people skills.

Just to add many family members of mine and friends that are engineers continued to be engineers and are very well of but not rich by any means.

I'm not going to try to argue that in a lifetime a business student will make more then an engineering student, its pretty obvious unless you get a tourism or economics degree and don't continue to go to school?

I'm not very biased either I think UofC sucks altogether haha I would rather have went overseas, U.S. or even Toronto but couldn't :dunno:

Yes, I am saying a good engineer will make more money in their career. The point you're missing is that engineers can be businessmen. Most millionaires I know in Calgary are "businessmen" but their background is engineering.

I have a BComm. The majority of the materials are fluffy common-sense type crap that doesn't make you a "businessman." If an engineer wants to be knowledgeable in business then they should take some economics & finance options and they'll be better off than any B.Comm student when it comes to hard skills.

Looking at the oil company I'm with, the top 3 earners are Engineers.

Unless you want to get into Banking or think you have what it takes to become a CFO somewhere (and you enjoy finance / accounting) or go on to pursue a law degree, I thing B. Eng is the better degree to hold. Especially in Alberta where so much of the economy is driven by resources.

[PepsiCola]

Originally posted by 2Valve0
^^
Are you saying that a good engineer in their lifetime will make more money than a good businessman? I call :bullshit: on that. Obviously ENG's make more starting salary? Business you work your way up, and fast if you have any common sense and people skills.

Just to add many family members of mine and friends that are engineers continued to be engineers and are very well of but not rich by any means.

I'm not going to try to argue that in a lifetime a business student will make more then an engineering student, its pretty obvious unless you get a tourism or economics degree and don't continue to go to school?

I'm not very biased either I think UofC sucks altogether haha I would rather have went overseas, U.S. or even Toronto but couldn't :dunno:

Was that an attempt to belittle economics or tourism degrees? I really think its this general attitude that gives business students a bad name. I mean, i would not mind at all bragging but if its not backed up give it up... rather than "my dad knows this guy who knows this guy whos a business major whos rich"


This is just one survey I have seen altho, most of the other ones i have seen do seem to be pretty similar.

Best Undergrad College Degrees By Salary 2009
http://www.payscale.com/best-colleges/degrees.asp

Starting Mid-career

Aerospace Engineering $59,600 $109,000

Chemical Engineering $65,700 $107,000

Computer Engineering $61,700 $105,000

Electrical Engineering $60,200 $102,000

Economics $50,200 $101,000

Physics $51,100 $98,800

Mechanical Engineering $58,900 $98,300

Computer Science $56,400 $97,400

Industrial Engineering $57,100 $95,000

Environmental Engineering $53,400 $94,500

Statistics $48,600 $94,500

Biochemistry $41,700 $94,200

Mathematics $47,000 $93,600

Civil Engineering $55,100 $93,000

Construction Management $53,400 $89,600

Finance $48,500 $89,400

Also another neat fact is that most of the S&P top 500 ceos have engineering backgrounds even if their functions are mostly non engineer related. For example the 2008 data gives a ranking as follows:

2008

Field % of CEOs
Engineering 22
Economics 16
Business Administration 13
Accounting 9
Liberal Arts 6
No degree or no data 3

[davidI]

The other thing missing from this thread is discussion about job satisfaction.

When deciding on your degree path, consider what you'd like to be doing rather than just how much you'll be making.

I find the sciences and engineering a lot more interesting than the "admin" work a lot of commerce students end up doing. That said, I love the financial markets and that's where a solid understanding of accounting, finance & economics can come in handy.

[Ebon]

Do what your going to be the most satisfied with. Talking to career counseling might be a good place to start.

Going to UofC is a big regret for me once I saw how shitty the teaching quality was and i'm hopefully transferring out ASAP. If you got the grades, pick path (business/engg/etc) and apply for the best schools you can.

Business: Queen's, Toronto, UWO, McGill. In general, older = better in business cause of the deeper alumni network

Engg: I'm thinking Waterloo and Toronto

[leftwing]

Don't listen to all this crap about who makes more. It is all true in some sort of context.
Yes engineers will generally make more for a starting salary, but that does not mean if you graduate with a business degree you will for sure make less than them, you can get a really good job if you try, with a really good starting salary.

All the talk about salary is relative to a how good you are at your job. Hell i've seen a tv documentary (inside the mcdonals empire) and some mcdonalds managers make over 100,000.

So dont make your job decision based on salary, make it based on what you wanna do, if you do that you will have way better job satisfaction and will most likely make alot of money.

Im in business and i love it. There are soo many different paths you can take and soo many differnt jobs you can have. i have nothing to say about engineering really, except my 2 friends who happen to be in engineering seem to have a lot more school related stress and are always doing homework, they do have lives though.

Do some research about possible jobs you would like to have and find out how they spend their days and what thier job entails, that will give you insight into what you might want to be...


good luck.

[happygirl]

Originally posted by 2Valve0
I have this dumb ass teacher today who droned on for 30 minutes in accounting about fuck all to do with anything(some solar powered houses) when we have a midterm saturday and havn't finished all the material, good teacher right?



I don't know what section you're in, but I imagine the reason the prof was talking about solar houses and the environment was to give us background info on the upcoming guest speakers-- the solar power team.

And becuase the midterm is saturday, she said NEXT class is the review (thursday). also in my lecture, after she finished talking about solar power, she mentioned that 95% of the midterm has already been covered, so the impression I got is that we are ahead of schedule.

[Aleks]

Originally posted by The BMW Guy
So why can't businessmen become engineers exactly?
Can you guys elaborate more on this.

Because to practice as a PEng in Alberta you need your eng degree, you need to write you ethics test and you need to have at least 4 yrs of engineering practice to apply.

Like others have said. Take the Eng degree, after that it's easy to get into business type things. Most managers, Vps and CEO I work with are PEngs.

[2Valve0]

Originally posted by happygirl


I don't know what section you're in, but I imagine the reason the prof was talking about solar houses and the environment was to give us background info on the upcoming guest speakers-- the solar power team.

And becuase the midterm is saturday, she said NEXT class is the review (thursday). also in my lecture, after she finished talking about solar power, she mentioned that 95% of the midterm has already been covered, so the impression I got is that we are ahead of schedule.

Yes, it was about upcoming speakers? But honestly I don't think anyone gave a shit considering there is a midterm and we have not gone over budgeting yet? You probably in my lecture, and I think that the teacher is a dumbass, would rather have the brown dude back.

Another thing nobody mentioned here was the simple fact that alot of students are idiots and don't have any real life experience or experience with real jobs that you can put on your resume, those affect how you are placed after university and what is available to you. If you have apprenticeships or work during summer for certain places, its just as valuable to you as your degree itself. Engineers I believe know this better than anyone else as every single one I know has gotten summer jobs with firms in their field they wish to go into. As for me, almost a year at a job which deals directly with customers, selling and admin tasks etc. which will most likely look good on my resume. I applied last year for 3 or 4 summer apprenticeships with a few places and every single one said "your interview skills are the best I've seen, your grades and work ethic seem great, but you don't have any office experience" and didnt get the job. So I went out and got a years worth now and will probably land me any apprenticeship I want. Wherever you go, whatever you do, you need real life experience or chances are you wont get a job your satisfied with after graduation(unless your family knows people)

[mazdavirgin]

Originally posted by 2Valve0
I applied last year for 3 or 4 summer apprenticeships with a few places and every single one said "your interview skills are the best I've seen, your grades and work ethic seem great, but you don't have any office experience" and didnt get the job. So I went out and got a years worth now and will probably land me any apprenticeship I want. Wherever you go, whatever you do, you need real life experience or chances are you wont get a job your satisfied with after graduation(unless your family knows people)

Sounds like you are putting the horse before the carriage. It's great you want a summer job but a lot of companies will give you a nice BS excuses as to why they didn't hire you... I frankly doubt one years worth of office experience is now going to open all these doors for you.

Anyways firstly in terms of Engineering anyone who tells you it is not a lot of work is pulling your leg. Secondly a lot of people flunk Engineering not because it is hard but more because if you are not interested you will be hard pressed to put in the effort to match most other students. At the end of the day you just have to ride the bell curve.

The Engineering degree will be a lot harder than taking an MBA or a Undergrad degree in Business simply due to fact that you don't get to take fluffy easy courses.

PS: It's worth taking Engineering just so you don't have to spend your days with the uptight folk who go to class in suits/ties.

[dimi]

The first question you should ask yourself is whether you want to go to UofC.

A Bcomm without some sort of designation, certification, or professional accreditation is useless IMO. Its just too general.

As for Engineering students making more than Business students, in general, I agree. An engineering degree is SOOO much harder than a Bcomm though, so the cost benefit is around the same. My 1st year in ENGG was harder than my 3rd year in Business. Seriously.

There are great opportunities for networking in the Business faculty. But there are also the so called "Haskayne douches" wearing suits for no particular reason talking about "Yea I'm thinking about trying out I-banking for a summer job". Keep fucking dreaming :rofl:

Think it over very well! I was one of those who was pondering about this for days, and then ended up making the wrong decision.

[The BMW Guy]

Yeah I am pretty much stuck in Calgary. Much cheaper to live with my parents with our current financial situation.

[luxor]

Originally posted by The BMW Guy
Yeah I am pretty much stuck in Calgary. Much cheaper to live with my parents with our current financial situation.

Current financial situation?

Not sure what you mean by that, nor am I asking you to reveal. Just keep in mind that the U of C is proposing to introduce "market modifiers" to all professional faculties, this includes Business and Engineering. A student loan is definitely needed when tuition spikes.

If you got a quote for around $5000/year of tuition at the U of C, be prepared to be paying over $7000 in your first year and there-on when these market modifiers come into effect starting Fall 2010. Noting also, bursaries have not yet been adjusted with these market modifiers.

Of course, these market modifiers have not been passed yet, I think the final decision will come in April.

Edit: Almost forgot! Pick Engineering if and only if you are good at Math. If you suck at Math or just mediocre do not pick Engineering, go to business, because Engineering is heavily based on Mathematics. For those who said they didn't study much, those were the guys getting C grades. You are guaranteed to fail Engineering if you don't study much, especially the first and second years.

[Disoblige]

^^ True,

but not just math.. It's also if you're more a conceptual person. When you progress through the years, you'll find the math courses are damn easy compared to others because you actually use a method you did before identically to solve the problem.

With other classes, you'll have to UNDERSTAND stuff well to answer the questions.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by Aleks


Because to practice as a PEng in Alberta you need your eng degree, you need to write you ethics test and you need to have at least 4 yrs of engineering practice to apply.

Like others have said. Take the Eng degree, after that it's easy to get into business type things. Most managers, Vps and CEO I work with are PEngs.

This is the truth. You can always get your MBA afterward to get some business cred.

[believe]

Originally posted by luxor

Edit: Almost forgot! Pick Engineering if and only if you are good at Math. If you suck at Math or just mediocre do not pick Engineering, go to business, because Engineering is heavily based on Mathematics. For those who said they didn't study much, those were the guys getting C grades. You are guaranteed to fail Engineering if you don't study much, especially the first and second years.

Not necessarily. If there's anything I've learned, its that that engineers are not good at "math." Crunching numbers sure, but from my experience, most people do not deal very well with "heavy" math such as integrals, taylor series expansions, fourier analysis etc, but as you get to the higher level courses, the details of the math don't really matter as much, and really all you need to have is a good grasp on algebra.

but ya, i agree that people who say they didn't have to work hard in engineering are just kidding themselves.

[mazdavirgin]

Originally posted by believe
most people do not deal very well with "heavy" math such as integrals, taylor series expansions, fourier analysis etc, but as you get to the higher level courses, the details of the math don't really matter as much, and really all you need to have is a good grasp on algebra.

I donno man. When I went through EE we had a whole course on Fourier analysis. I mean after taking 6 courses from the faculty of math and another 2-3 engg courses that were mostly math I don't really think you can get away with algebra. Personally I had to take courses on number theory, set theory and proofs :\ That's all heavy math... Not to mention the courses on multivariable calculus and differential equations. After your engineering degree especially in EE you are 1 or two courses shy of being able to have a minor in math...

[Travel_Dude]

Business degrees are very 90's. (I have one)

Engineering all the way.

[Ebon]

If your in Calgary, an Engg (especially, petroleum) + MBA sets you up well. The MBA is essentially only good to network/meet people if you get an undergrad in commerce. Quite literally, a ton of the same courses from the same profs.

Trust me when i say highschool is a pretty shitty indicator of how well your gonna perform in university. Many people find the transition difficult. I can't even count how many students I know that went into sciences (not even engg) with top marks(95-100) in math/physics out of high school and struggled their first year.

[davidI]

Originally posted by Ebon
If your in Calgary, an Engg (especially, petroleum) + MBA sets you up well. The MBA is essentially only good to network/meet people if you get an undergrad in commerce. Quite literally, a ton of the same courses from the same profs.

Trust me when i say highschool is a pretty shitty indicator of how well your gonna perform in university. Many people find the transition difficult. I can't even count how many students I know that went into sciences (not even engg) with top marks(95-100) in math/physics out of high school and struggled their first year.

This. If you rocked High School without studying you'll find the transition tough. I came out of HS with a high 80's average (86 or 89%, can't remember) and pulled a 1.94 GPA my first semester haha. I wasn't used to having to go to class or read books in order to pull solid grades.

Now that I've been out in the work force for 4 years, I regret not paying more attention to the classes I never thought I'd use (Calculus, Stats, Econ etc.) I'm developing those skills now through further studies, but I regret not taking advantage of the instruction back when I had it. Then again, I had a shit load of fun in Uni and in many ways I'm happy I lived it up when I could!

[Mckenzie]

A couple points:

1- IF you like the oil and gas industry, or mining, or mfg, likely the better route is ENG
2- If you insist on doing business and since you seem like a bright, driven person, go for either finance or accounting and do a professional designation like the CA or CFA. Any other degrees would not even be comparable to those two in terms of earning potential and job potential.
3- If you go with #2, you will have lots of international mobility in many different industries and types of businesses and not just in a finance / accounting capacity.
4- Pay to play. You get crushed in Uni as an engineer. You get crushed in accounting becoming a CA. You get dominated in high-end finance type jobs getting your CFA. All lead to excellent paying jobs down the road and excellent opportunities.

I'd figure out what types of industry you find interesting. I personally cannot stand oil and gas, so have no interest in getting into it in any capacity. I know the market has softened considerably for engineers in the city. In terms of employability, it would go accounting, engineering then finance in that order.

My .02.

[dimi]

Originally posted by Mckenzie
A couple points:

2- If you insist on doing business and since you seem like a bright, driven person, go for either finance or accounting and do a professional designation like the CA or CFA. Any other degrees would not even be comparable to those two in terms of earning potential and job potential.
3- If you go with #2, you will have lots of international mobility in many different industries and types of businesses and not just in a finance / accounting capacity.
4- Pay to play. You get crushed in Uni as an engineer. You get crushed in accounting becoming a CA. You get dominated in high-end finance type jobs getting your CFA. All lead to excellent paying jobs down the road and excellent opportunities.

My .02.

I could not agree more.

I am an accounting major and most likely planning to do the CA route. It is 2 years of torture unless you do MPACC, which is still pretty hard.

I am also doing the lev. 1 CFA in June and it is certainly not an easy designation to achieve. 240 MC 6 hours, covering ~ 2700 pages of material. The pass rate for the December 2009 Level 1 was 34%. The other 2 levels are written/case based from my understanding. Not to forget the "enjoyable" working hours of the finance world. But hey as the poster above said, you gotta pay to play.

Other than those 2 and maybe PLMA (which will limit you to AB) I wouldn't really consider any other majors in the Bcomm degree. Maybe marketing too...

Anyway, all the best with your decision.

[Boat]

Originally posted by 2Valve0
I was exactly like you by the sounds of it, I've been making money since I could remeber, or scamming kids in trades for pokemon cards. My average going into UofC was 96%, sciences, maths, anything you name it. I chose business. My first mistake was going to UofC at all. The level of teaching at this school is horrible in most business classes, and I've heard in many ENGG classes as well. For example, I have this dumb ass teacher today who droned on for 30 minutes in accounting about fuck all to do with anything(some solar powered houses) when we have a midterm saturday and havn't finished all the material, good teacher right?

My suggestion to you would be DO NOT GO TO SCHOOL IN CALGARY! If your like me and have to much here that you can't leave then your shit out of luck haha.

But as for your question most people I know in business have alot of fun, where as everyone I know in ENGG are stresscases with no lives to be honest. Always complaining about assignments and how they never have time to do anything, see friends etc. This is just what the kids I know in ENGG are like though may not represent all(I only know about 10 ppl in ENGG).
If your getting 90's in highschool and you were like me that didn't have to study crazy and have no life to get them, I'd suggest business to be honest because I don't study much or apply myself 100% and still am doing good. If you are one of the people who study all day and don't have a life, I'd suggest ENGG because it seems like thats what they do.

Just remember if you go into business always check rate my prof before you go into a class because we have alot of horrible damn teachers, could give you a list to run and hide from.

:dunno:

Hahahha are you in Irenes 323 class? :banghead:

[Mckenzie]

Originally posted by dimi


I could not agree more.

I am an accounting major and most likely planning to do the CA route. It is 2 years of torture unless you do MPACC, which is still pretty hard.

I am also doing the lev. 1 CFA in June and it is certainly not an easy designation to achieve. 240 MC 6 hours, covering ~ 2700 pages of material. The pass rate for the December 2009 Level 1 was 34%. The other 2 levels are written/case based from my understanding. Not to forget the "enjoyable" working hours of the finance world. But hey as the poster above said, you gotta pay to play.

Other than those 2 and maybe PLMA (which will limit you to AB) I wouldn't really consider any other majors in the Bcomm degree. Maybe marketing too...

Anyway, all the best with your decision.

I got through level 1 in December and got my CA last year. I've spoken with 2 CFAs who have admitted the CFA commands nowhere near the respect that the CA does in the business world, so take that for what it is worth. I would stick with the CA if I were you ;). (In all honesty, the CFA is not a "program" like the CASB program / articling experience is).

As far as PLM goes, its a great field if you stay employed, but the transferability of skills and knowledge to other industries and professions is why I chose to jump out of the program.:angel:

Marketing...well...there are basically no high end jobs in Calgary. Need to move to Van or Toronto for those, but they are mega competitive, so you need to be a star (or have a nice rack).

[2Valve0]

Originally posted by Boat


Hahahha are you in Irenes 323 class? :banghead:

YES killing myself slowly :banghead: you as well im guessing?

[Kartelli]

I'll give you an engineering perspective from somebody who went to U of A, BSc. in Elec Engineering. P. Eng designation pending by Apegga (4 years out of school).

I've been in the consulting/private sector of engineering services since I graduated. I cannot comment for public or utility sector, which from my understanding is quite abit more relaxed pace than the shit I've seen in the last 4 years.

Overall thoughts, if your a business oriented person, take a BCOMM degree hands down. I totally regret not having a solid financial background coming out of University. Hence my primary goal for 2011 is to take in MBA in finance to complete the "business" side of engineering. Understanding financial statements, marketing techniques, business philosophy, etc. If I had a choice to go back to school and complete a new undergrad, I'd stay very far away from engineering altogether. From a personal life perspective, owning your own business, billing your own fee's, and watching a company grow under your direct supervision is more rewarding over a span of 30+ years in a single career (doctors, dentists, pharmacists, etc). 90% of Engineers will never experience this because they try to be a perfect employee, and not an employer. An engineering degree teaches you the technical skillset to handle immense pressure, and adapt to not be afraid to learn any new skill set... thats about it in a nutshell. Your experience in uni will be shattered once you hit the real working world, and have to be retrained from the ground up.

You sound like a mover/shaker individual, you will benefit much more from a BCOM degree than an engineering degree.

As for salary wise, and having 30+ contacts from graduation, the values of 60-100k mid career (15 years of exp) is dead on. 100k cap is probably the maximum you'll ever make unless fortune favors your circumstances... and I can tell you in the private sector 80k for the hassles you go through... its disconcerning after 15 years of blood/sweat/tears.

PM me, we can chat more about it if you want.

[kwjent]

Ge t your P.Eng, then do your MBA. I'm doing my B.B.A great opportunities but the combination of those two will make you very marketable.

[Crymson]

Originally posted by kwjent
Ge t your P.Eng, then do your MBA. I'm doing my B.B.A great opportunities but the combination of those two will make you very marketable.

+1

Looks at the sheer number of exectuives and CEO's in calgary to realize the value of this combo.

[vinc456]

Just wanted to point out that the University of Calgary offers a MEED Minor program so you can get an Engineering degree and have the opportunity to receive some business education.

http://www.ucalgary.ca/pubs/calendar/current/en-4-16.html

[Mckenzie]

Originally posted by Crymson


+1

Looks at the sheer number of exectuives and CEO's in calgary to realize the value of this combo.

The key word here is "Calgary" and why I said to figure out what type of industry you would like to work in. Calgary's executives are typically O&G related and this would be a great combo here, or in Vancouver for example. However, in many other industries, this is not the case.

So determining a place to live / industry is paramount to this decision. Another consideration is the time and money commitment of a P ENGG and MBA vs. a top tier business designation or law degree.

You could write an essay on this decision in reality.

[nobb]

Originally posted by vinc456
Just wanted to point out that the University of Calgary offers a MEED Minor program so you can get an Engineering degree and have the opportunity to receive some business education.

http://www.ucalgary.ca/pubs/calendar/current/en-4-16.html

Im in this, it's totally useless shit. Sure, it's something nice to put on your resume but those classes dont teach you much of actual business skills. If you were looking to start a small business like a restaurant or something then maybe it's somewhat useful. But Ive found that almost none of what they teach in MEED classes can be applied to the corporate world.

[tha_bandit]

Originally posted by vinc456
Just wanted to point out that the University of Calgary offers a MEED Minor program so you can get an Engineering degree and have the opportunity to receive some business education.

http://www.ucalgary.ca/pubs/calendar/current/en-4-16.html

MEED minor focuses more on entrepreneurship and consists of 5 courses, of which 4 are ENTI, i think the MGSO minor is more of a 'business minor'
http://www.ucalgary.ca/pubs/calendar/current/ha-4-5.html

[Nusc]

Originally posted by msommers
Do you want to work your ass off or dress up for school:rofl: :rofl: I kid I kid

Do people actually wear suits to their classes? I've never seen it.

[RX_EVOLV]

Sorry I don't feel like reading all the posts so I will just reply to your original post, skipping whatever that had been said in between.

I personally say ENG ALL THE WAY. Take advantage of university and learn some professional skills that you can't do anywhere else. You will never have access to equipments and resources in your future like now that will allow you to learn about engineering. One cannot simply become an engineer by experience, whereas you can always do MBA, online courses, read books, or learn by experience to get into business.

Plus someone with a professional technical education background + a business degree/mind set is extremely valuable. Companies always want someone who has the business sense but still able to communicate and understand the fundamentals (if you work in a technical industry), and trust me these ppl are rare.

My personal example. I did my undergrad in science ( molecular genetics) and my grad school in business ( Master of Biomedical Technology), and my ability to understand both science and business had helped me tremendously in terms of the fields that I can get into as well as the work that I'm able to do.

Even though the idea of going to school for a long time ( 7 years for me) seems scary at first, you will thank yourself later. Like you I love Science and Business and now I'm working in business development in a biotech company working with stem cells and nanoparticles!! Who say you cant have the cake and eat it too!! no way I could've got into this position if I were just to do a business degree.. not at this early stage of my life anyway

[mazdavirgin]

Originally posted by Nusc


Do people actually wear suits to their classes? I've never seen it.

:dunno: We would always see the business students walking about in ties and suits... Not all of them but a fair bit. In engineering you had half the class in their pajamas.

[Mckenzie]

^In all honesty anyone in a suit there is likely interviewing or is presenting, which are requirements.

I've never seen anyone show up to class in a suit because they want to look baller.

I am in no way however saying there are no DBs there. There is definitely an abundance of those... *cough* CPMT *cough*.

[LMVantage]

I don't understand why people are stressing the money factor so much. How much money you ultimately earn in the long run is not necessarily dependent on your degree. Actually, I dare say it isn't dependent on that. It's based on the choices you make and the paths you pursue. If you're happy being an employee, then you wont make that much in the end, no matter what field you get into. You have to think outside the box and kick things up a few notches to make a place for yourself in the upper ranks.

Also, the reference to paying $7000 in your first year with the market modifies isn't true. First year business will see a $250 (approx) increase in tuition - that's it. The market modifiers apply only to courses taken in ENGG and Business faculty courses. Any other courses you pay their tuition fees, which will be around $525 I believe.

Before I made the choice to go to uni just over a year ago (after being out of school for 8 years), I faced the same issue. It took me a while to decide on which department to go into. Ultimately I chose business simply because I'm close with a few engineers and have seen what they've done, and realized that in the end I wouldn't be happy there (even though I'm often fascinated with the subject).

One thing I would highly recommend is taking personality tests and brainstorming with people you're closest to and know you extremely well. Analyze your strengths ("Strengths Finder 2.0" for example is a great book). Learn as much as you can about yourself to see where you would be best suited and what you'd enjoy doing most.

Also, there's no harm in getting multiple degrees. It's not as though they wont let you back in because you realized that the field you got into with your degree isn't as interesting as you thought it would be.

[msommers]

It's interesting to see how many people's primary concern is, "which will make the most money." I'm more than confident saying that there are business students and/or MBA holders that would be overwhelmed, stressed as fuck and hate their life if they owned a business and would be much happier and better suited working for someone else. Starting a business is obviously a big risk, which could end up extremely successful or completely Banjeer'ed.

[goodmusic]

engineering > business


get an MBa after your P.eng, and you'll be a threat

[vinc456]

Originally posted by msommers
It's interesting to see how many people's primary concern is, "which will make the most money." I'm more than confident saying that there are business students and/or MBA holders that would be overwhelmed, stressed as fuck and hate their life if they owned a business and would be much happier and better suited working for someone else. Starting a business is obviously a big risk, which could end up extremely successful or completely Banjeer'ed.

Picking a profession based solely on salary (and starting salary no less!) is a recipe for a short-lived and stressful career.

[pinoyhero]

Originally posted by dandia89
you could always do your engineering degree then do your mba, which is a mixture of both.

FTW.

[vinc456]

Think about what you want to spend the next ~4 years of your studying and what you want to get out from life. Do you value free time, money, prestige, happiness, or something else? Find where you want to go, how to go get there, and act accordingly. Don't plan too far ahead (unless you're aiming to be an astronaut or athlete, it's probably too late to start now) because your values/situation will change. I think it's far too early to start thinking about an MBA or graduate studies when you're 0% along the way of your undergrad degree.

[bjstare]

Originally posted by vinc456
Think about what you want to spend the next ~4 years of your studying and what you want to get out from life. Do you value free time, money, prestige, happiness, or something else? Find where you want to go, how to go get there, and act accordingly. Don't plan too far ahead (unless you're aiming to be an astronaut or athlete, it's probably too late to start now) because your values/situation will change. I think it's far too early to start thinking about an MBA or graduate studies when you're 0% along the way of your undergrad degree.

This is good advice, but doesn't answer his question. You can have free time, money, prestige, happiness (or other things) with both business and engineering. The aforementioned are more a result of what company/industry a person is working in, than what kind of degree they have.

The only argument to this is that your free time during school will be substantially less when you're in eng, than it would be when you're in business. I know this, because I have no free time. Ever. haha

[vinc456]

Originally posted by cjblair


This is good advice, but doesn't answer his question. You can have free time, money, prestige, happiness (or other things) with both business and engineering. The aforementioned are more a result of what company/industry a person is working in, than what kind of degree they have.

The only argument to this is that your free time during school will be substantially less when you're in eng, than it would be when you're in business. I know this, because I have no free time. Ever. haha

That's because the OP is the only person that can answer this question... ;)

I would say the only exception to this if you manage to enter a lucrative field like dentistry. I can't imagine that anybody truly enjoys looking at bung teeth but you are really well compensated. I think my orthodontist works 4 days a week. Once I was billed 5k for 1 hour of work! (half an hour consult, half an hour surgery) :facepalm:

[bjstare]

I considered dentistry actually, but then I thought about how much I don't wanna stare at nasty teeth all day. I also realized I didn't love my high school bio classes, so it was off to engineering I went. Now that I'm just about finished school, and have already made good money on co-op, I'm happy with my choice.

[A|pine]

Anyone can write their CFA btw (material covered is essentially a bcomm equivalent). I know of individuals who do that on top of their P. Engg

So what dimension do you bring?

For example, an engg student can bring another dimension (technical understanding).

Within the Petroleum Industry, reservoir engineering work terms (internship program) can teach students the following: reserve booking and reservoir analysis which is crucial for evaluating an E&P Company for Divestitures and Acquisitions (engineering side)

Reserve booking deals with risk analysis (business & engineering side) and premises of proven, possible and probable reserves / resources. All of which is a staple for the SEC (USA) and the CSA (Canada) for securities reporting.

----------------------------------------

Another example, electrical engineering

Understanding of power markets (business side) and necessary equipment and infrastructure for transmission of electricity (engineering side)

-----------------------------------------

Business students will have a general understanding of the properties of a corporation but may lack in understanding of the intrinsic details that make a certain corporation successful in a particular industry. An engineering degree will help you gain that technical understanding. Mind you there are business students who undertake the task of learning these technical details but these individuals are few.

Also note that the details of understanding on how a certain industry functions can be gained through work experience and is almost always due to one's experiences outside of normal curricular activity. So if you're interested in Finance and am in Engineering, you can learn all about it, it'll be less difficult as you already have the math background and am used to abstract theories.

If you're interested in business development in the oil sands or wind energy in alberta but am a Finance student, you can learn about it. But it'll be more difficult transitioning (career wise) due to not having that technical background in physics / chemistry / calculus / thermodynamics / fluid dynamics. You will be stuck with completing risk analysis from numbers that are given to you from the technical experts.

If you're an engineer you can be the technical expert and the individual completing the risk analysis. That is the extra dimension that Engineers bring. Likewise practical understanding /application of technologies can be brought upon from work experience and does encompass some aspects that engineers deal with but not all.

Engineering is a professional practice and is not self-taught since it has its own governing body as an organization. Much like a CA, CFA or MD.

From the sounds of it you have great business understanding and am tactful when it comes to making money. If you want that extra dimension to your business mind set, do engineering or your CA, CFA or MBA. If you feel that your business intuition is good enough to where you want to get to in society, just finish the bcomm, or start your own business. Many people are successful without higher education.

I think/heard rage2 is a self taught entrepreneur, Ralph Klein is a self taught politician / business man and Bud McCaig (Brought the Flames to Calgary) is also a self taught business man.

Doc Seaman - an engineer who started his own O&G company was also a very successful business man (He also brought the flames to Calgary from Atlanta). Obviously an O&G company requires technical expertise and therefore will require engineers.

[princeaidin]

had to post this because it solves the problem

Now Simple Solution:

Question: Do you understand why its funny?

Yes Then go to engg
No Then go to bussiness

Cheesy but had to post it.

[princeaidin]

^ I should learn how to spell business

[HiTempguy1]

It seems this thread comes up every year! I can not tell you what you should do, but I can explain what I did, and some of my thoughts.

I graduated high school in spring 2006. Basically since grade 10, I knew I was going into engineering. I was smart, worked hard, got good grades, liked science and mathmatics. Physics was also very interesting.

I started having doubts about engineering in grade 12. I only got ~80% in Math 31 (high school calculus). Since I had an obscene amount of spares the second semester (even after taking Chem 30 and Physics 30) I retook Math 31, skipping half the classes due to a GF (only Math 31, I did not and to this day do not skip ANY classes) and wound up with an 87%. I was also running into a lot of problems with physics. It wasn't that I didn't understand it, but it was really fast paced. I ended up with ~85% in that course (because of something like a 90+% on the provincials for it). I had a 85% average when I graduated.

So, I was accepted to both U of A and RDC (1 year transfer program) in engineering. GF was going to go the RDC transfer route (which was also the 5 year co-op path for U of A) and thats what I had wanted to do as well before I met her. Things didn't work out so hot for me. I was used to having freedom to work on cars, play with toys, do what I want. I studied hard, and I did buckle down and study LOTS. But it didn't matter. Somebody mentioned something about a 1.93GPA; nobody had any answers for me when I asked what to do with my abysmal marks (around a 2.2 when I withdrew before finals of the 2nd term). If I could retake courses etc etc. So, spring 2007 I withdrew from the program.

I spent 1.5 years doing stuff. Life didn't go sideways, in fact, it grew tremendously. I started racing cars. I went and partied. I worked as a plumber's assistant and then as residential HVAC guy. I busted my ass, made money, put money away with the hope of eventually going back to school. The gf at the time (now the ex) was great at convincing me that I needed to go back to school. I then enrolled as an Instrumentation Technologist at NAIT.

Which brings me to where I am now. 1 month away from my diploma. Is Instrumentation challenging? No (programming is interesting as hell though, I loves it!), but I've realized that sometimes there is more to life than being challenged at school. Especially the insanity that comes from engg. I still look back and think 4+ years of that? That would be rough. I know a buddy from high school who went and got his electrical technologist diploma straight out of high school at SAIT. He just bought a house last month. What I'd give to be in his position!

So think wisely. If you haven't lived, or experienced the world (even just Canada and the USofA), maybe explore. I personally feel I would have been MUCH more suited (responsibility wise) for engg if I had taken that year. Not that I am a party animal, but it was just more school in my eyes.

Hope this helps, and hopefully you make the decision that is best for you!

[aram1000]

I did the Engineering route through school, and now am working towards a CFA designation. I like business, but more interested in finance, hence this decision. through your undergrad, they are different though. Business is where all the "cool" kids go, well they make it look that way anyway. Typicaly, business grads are far more social, not to say engineers are not. As for salaries, it depends on industry, in my graduating class, anyone who went to Alberta to work in Energy or anyone who got on with a crown corp (Sask) did pretty good. Admin grads who got into a crown seem to do decent for salary. Others (myself included) it really depends. I ended up working in software for 4.5 years, got paid shit and was treated like a slave. Work at a power utility now as an Engineer, pay is good, though I do want to get into the energy trading and business side, where pay is also very good. If you want to be technical, but have the option of doing business later, then doing an Engg degree may not be bad. There are lots of guys i went to school with who are now doing MBA's, some doing CFA, etc. Also, i know when i wrote the CFA level 1 exam in calgary, there were a lot of engineering grads who were writing as well. If you go the business route, it would be best long term speaking to get a profesional designation after (CFA, CA, CGA) or do an MBA after. As for you marks in sciences and what not right now, don't let that guide you, as high school is meaningless once you are in university. As for social aspect, always had time to have fun, had to work hard at times, but thats undergrad for ya. Hope this helps, and take your time, no rush to make a decision.